Ventilation System for our Healthy High Performance Home: ERV/HRV and Air Filters
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Our family's forever home has some super sophisticated systems (that sometimes require super wacky tweaks to other things in the house). Here you'll get a full tour of our fully-ducted Fantech SER150 energy recovery ventilator (ERV) and CM 3000 HEPA filter unit. CORRECTION: the ERV core is not paper, it’s a washable polymer.
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I love this guy, I love his specificity level, I love the drill down to the minute detail, I have spent a lot of time looking and these are some of the best videos in existence right now
Hey, thanks a lot for the shoutout @William Mackey!
@@HomePerformance I am interested in one of your classes. We are building our home in Spokane WA, I will be doing most of the work myself. I have a question, if I were to install a HEPA filter inline with my return duct, is there a ratio for upsizing the filter size compared to the duct size to deal with air flow resistance?" For example, if I had a 20" final return duct, could I use a 40" HEPA filter with a long angle reducer on both sides to compensate for HEPA resistance? or would it need to be 60" or is this idea infeasible?
We will be installing both wall cavity and exterior insulation and an HRV.
Look into the static pressure drop data on the filters you’re thinking about- that will tell you exactly how big to make it. This is all math/science predictable. PS, you can use multiple passes to get clean air too- you don’t NEED to force 100% of the air through the filter. That’s called a bypass filter, if you just do some of it at a time.
@@HomePerformance Thank you, I saw some bypass hepa filters at Lennox etc. but it just seems like it would only catch a small percentage of the air flow.
Double the costs double the work continuous power use where is the balance between comfort/ clean air and money spent/wasted. If you select the proper UVC LAMP you can sanitize the aiR WITHOUT GENERATING OZONE with less power consumption than your continuous running fan a very effective addition for healthy house.
Not true actually. Stay tuned for this Saturday’s episode all about it.
@@HomePerformance Hospitals and other health care facilities have been using them with proven results . UVC IS A BROAD spectrum light with only small portion generating OZONE GAS.
I have a home that had a blower door test done and I think it was around 8.38 ACH For ~13500 cubic feet of house. I have since sealed up a lot with foam and done stuff like sealed rim joists with via cut and cobble method. So not extreme but well priced. I have an uHoo air monitor and it says I have elevated CO2 levels. normally around 1500ppm, sometimes up to 2200ppm. I was told I need an ERV but I think I really need a ventilated dehumidifier. I wouldn't mind having an ERV but I worry about humidity issues. My AC is already a little oversized and it can get pretty humid here at times. I also have an issue with an attic that cant be foamed easily and the ductwork for the main floor unit is in the attic. (I know, I know... but budget and house value are concerns also)
Sounds like a small home, so ACH50 is not the best metric for you (it rewards big homes and punishes small ones). You certainly need ventilation of some kind, I’d start with the ventilating dehu like you suggest.
Great info that I don't need noisy bathroom vent fans anymore. Your kitty box vent idea is wonderful.
Thanks William
Very informative as always. I've been watching almost all of your videos and your HVAC/Air filtration systems are the most innovative I've seen I LOVE the placement of your return vents in the bathrooms and the cat box area. I'm glad that you've tied up how your homes HEPA system works as a whole, because I've been waiting to see it. Keep up the good work,, I aspire to building our forever home and would love to be able to incorporate a majority of the principals that you and Grace have shown us all.
Hello,
Would you mind describing where and how the FanTech DM takes the air out and how it is ducted into your system (e.g. return of AC or supply of AC or separate ducts)?
I think you mean the HEPA filter unit- it draws from the return plenum and empties into the supply plenum.
Just know, when I visit I will be testing your powder room ventilation system.
Surprised at the merv3 filter. All system's here run a big filter on the ventlation inlet. The merv3 is only to protect the core. We have tons of pollen we want to keep out. Also have mesh on the outside air pickup so you don't get crap in the inlet ducts.
Bingo, and agreed, more filtration is obviously necessary. Maybe Fantech thought people were usually ducting straight into the return, using that filter.
Holy crap Emma is adorable. This video gave me a huge smile. And I'm loving this series of ventilation videos.
Thanks on both counts- glad to give you a dose of adorable, daddy-o
One major issue with these systems is that the filter media is extremely overpriced. Generally HEPA filters are not available in standard sizes so each manufacturer can charge extra for accessories that only fit their specific fan. You can get high quality HEPA filters at reasonable prices for a few very common household filters like Coway or Winix but there don’t seem to be any available for duct fans like the Fantech lineup.
Just Learning About This Ventilation Systems that I Absolutely Think I Need Because I'm Terribly Sick Whenever I'm In My House and I Have Tried and done everything Possible and this seems to be what Will Solve It Because I Feel better when I'm Outside. Just that No Installers are in My area and When I call up Most HVAC Companies in My Area to Ask About Home Ventilation Systems They Have No Idea WTH I'm Talking About.
To me, this is one of the biggest reasons I want to build an airtight house, I want to be able to effectively control the air quality.
It’s pretty great once you have it.
What do you think about using the heating/cooling supply ducts with the ERV?
Pretty sure the cdc also considers elevated ozone levels as hazardous to health as secondhand smoke.
It’s no joke- there are 350 ozone gens for sale on amazon at last count
Those ERV filters look pretty worthless. Would it make sense to add (yet another box) MERV pre-filter to the incoming fresh air stream?
Zehender supplies a waterless p trap with their system
Love your channel. Currently thinking of retrofitting duct/erv and hepa filter in my 1980 built house,since I now work full time from home, and you inspired me. Probably very leaky house, and unfortunately erv wise, only the Panasonic for cold climate seems adequate (-20c to - 30c is quite common here in Quebec). And most of it will be diy, because i can't find a hvac guy that will do manual j, manual d and even seal the ducts! But furnace and heat pump install cant since its a very protected profession.
I just finished watch the complete playlist on building your forever home - great job...learned a ton! I do have one question...in your HVAC design you have a dedicated return for your HEPA filter than dumps clean air into the supply duct. What is the advantage of this, compared to putting a HEPA air filter on the return duct right in front of the air handler provided the air handler has an EC motor and will run 24x7? Thank you for all you do!
Hey Russ- congrats, I think you might be the first! I disabled that HEPA unit actually, no change in IAQ.
Corbett, do you have a video on how to exhaust air from your clothes dryer? Does it also go through the ERV? I would think you don't really want to capture the hot, humid air and would rather just get it out of the house, but also don't want to depressurize the house either. I hope to be requesting a Manual J analysis from you in the coming months. Thanks!
Hey Briley- nothing special, DON’T connect it to the ERV. Most airtight homes are going with ventless heat pump dryers.
Awesome v intelligent cute ❤️👍daughter 👌 B SAFE u no need to worry u r whole House is fully protected any VIRUS 🦠🦟 can't ATTACK ROBUST TECHNOLOGY in future it's not Essential but neet every new Construction without ERV it's incomplete house still many people do not know ERV....HRV keep u r Innovation continue 👍
Thank you
wow great
Are you are depending on your ducted HVAC and dehumidifier to take care of the humidity from taking showers since you have deleted the exhaust over the shower? What about those who have ductless mini splits with a dehumidifier?
Nice video and presentation. The ventilation takeaway for me was if the home has a modest air leakage then using filtered fresh air intake fans and bathroom/laundry exhaust fans makes practical sense. Whereas if the home has minimal air leakage then use an ERV and avoid direct exhaustion (bathroom/laundry fans). If correct then what might be general numbers i.e. for modest leakage (greater than 5 ACH @ 50 pascals) versus minimal leakage (less than 3 ACH @ 50 pascals)?
2 ACH50 is usually the boundary, but it depends on the shape of the house because ACH50 is a function of volume.
If the condensate has an air gap between it and the trapped waste line, then the waste line must be open. What happens if the sewer backs up?
Same thing if you have a floor drain, poo on the floor.
How do you filter fresh air intake in big city with poluted air? Is there carbon&hepa box to use with ERV ti filter incoming fresh air?
You can certainly modify this setup to do that, but some manufacturers offer filter upgrades to MERV 13 inside the ERV itself.
You have the nicest crawlspaces... Mine are always dirt.
Thanks William, it was certainly intentional and took a bit of work
Usually we add a secondary drain pan under the erv and also pipe in drainj line incase it condenses
If it wasn’t over concrete I might’ve too
Hi I’m in Atlanta and building a new home. Do you have any recommendations for hvac companies that have experience with erv install for new construction? The few that I’ve called are not familiar with this.
I am building this year, I have a plan and am starting in March, I am very interested in this tight envelope and ERV ventilation, can you look at plans to work with contractors on how to achieve a well designed ERV and ventilation system? maybe you know who can do what I’m looking for in Tallahasse Fl area.
Thanks for your time
Jennifer C
What about IQ Air Merv16?
Sure, that works too- this unit is $350
I have so many questions, about this setup. Why the filtration system is separate? Why not just HEPA filtrate incoming air to the ERV? I'm guessing that you could contaminate the air yourself inside, with some craft working for example?
What if you have already the one-way discharge vents in your bathrooms and kitchen, and you want to build an effective ERV system besides?
Should I turn them all off and replace them with the ERV loops?
Why not put the HEPA in line with the ERV?
Because his HEPA filter has a 240 CFM fan and the ERV maxes out at 150 (and he runs it slower)
Your little girl is so cute. Does an HRV transfer heat in the winter and cooling in the summer? Would combining an HRV with an inline whole house humidifier be as effective as an ERV? What about rodents possibly crawling through the external panel holes in an ERV?
SOOOOOOOOO cute!
I would consider moving to Atlanta if you need an extra grandmother!
Your house needs a repair manual and operation manual. Lol
I’m on it, don’t worry
Thx cool to see helpers
Question how much editing time for this 20 minute video just curious
Thx
Hahahahahaaaaaaa- that’s quite a question John! A lot. I don’t keep track, it just has to be done. I also edit our television series. We’d love to have more people support us through Patreon to help fund it! Patreon.com/HomeDiagnosisTV
thx
Preying for the kids to sleep doesn't work for me either lol....
Kindly disclose which BRAND ERV U HV SELECTED & INSTALLED COMPLETE SYSTEM WITH CONTROL TOUCH SCREEN OPERATION in u r next VDO
We installed a Fantech SER150, but we also love Broan and Renewaire units.
What was the drip at 16:48?
It was a persistent video glitch from the camera
Why would you not have bath fans and ERV? I can imagine times where you want higher CFM leaving the bathroom than can be provided by an ERV. Plus, you don't really turn on the ERV on demand. Seems like it could be a personal choice rather than a mistake.
No, it’s because of airtightness. You don’t need what an ERV offers unless your home is quite airtight.
Have the ERV controller linked to the main doors so that when open for x time it will ramp up the ERV.
I just came across ERV products from Holtop. They have a wide range of products including mini-ERVs that mount into the wall and pair themselves wirelessly or can be programmed to operate with a set frequency. They also have another ERV that has embedded dehumidification (mini-heat pump) that first cools and then reheats the fresh air. The major downside is the manufacturer is located in China. I haven't researched if there are distributors in the US so parts and warranty may become an issue.
The mini ones do not set up a predictable pressure imbalance because they swap, so can’t be used as bath exhausts. Video forthcoming.
I have found a few places saying Ozone generators have their place (stopping mold before occupancy)...I just think that filtration/constant use is actually really bad for your health.
Actually, David, Ozone can eat rubber gaskets, including the insulated jackets on your electrical wiring.
Here in Northern California, we have been experiencing horrific air quality due to forest fires....Is it possible to use an ERV ONLY as a positive pressure system? Essentially, every house is leaky and the cost to do a performance house just isn't in most people's budget. In my head, it seems I could add an ERV and pressurize the home, its leaky enough that it would exfiltrate that air to outside and "limit" the amount of infiltration. I would also add in probably two of the HEPA filtration systems.....SO question is would it work? AND, does the ERV have the capability to filter out the smoke before pumping it into the house?
PBH&A, no, you can’t use an ERV like that- better to use the HEPA unit you see here with half of its 240 cfm flow piped in from outdoors!
@@HomePerformance ahh....So the return of the HEPA is actually half from inside and half from outside....Makes sense. and creates the positive pressure I'm looking for....Any solution for conditioning that air? its currently 104* outside. I could pump the supply side into my air handler return but it would have to be running non-stop unless the HEPA setup has some kind of static pressure trigger to only bring in outside air when the AC blower is running. I do have a 20SEER communicating system that runs most of the day nonstop. I got to figure out something, this smoke is making me and my family and friends sick. Headaches, stuff nose, flu like symptoms. Its miserable for millions of people every single summer for about 6 to 8 weeks......What are you using for IAQ monitoring? preferably something that mounts to a wall like a thermostat. Theres lots of stand alone items on the market but I'm really looking for quality items that are permanent and increase a houses value so myself and my customers can get a ROI from it.....If its easier to talk my number is 209-768-6480....Thank You so much for your response above
Corbett how many air supply ducts do u have from the erv? Seems like you would have four bedrooms wontvthat crest a lot of static pressure and limit supply to each bedroom?
No static pressure problem in the ducts, John, they’re designed right. And yes, it puts 1/4 of the 135 cfm into each room, which is just right.
You should put "plastic grass" in the cat litter box tunnel. Helps them drop the litter stuck between their toes
Something like it in there, very helpful
How do you balance the air flow when using a central vacuum system?
We empty the vacuum indoors through a HEPA filter.
Thanks for the video Corbett. Is it possible to use the same ductwork for distribution of conditioned air and ventilated air instead of in two different duct systems like you have and I've seen in Matt Risinger's "Real Rebuld"? What would the drawbacks be of a single duct system?
You can absolutely reduce this ductwork, but only by half if you do it my way. You can dump fresh air into the return plenum and take advantage of your nice high MERV filter there, but you’d still want to draw stale air from bathrooms and nasty stuff, since you won’t be using exhaust fans like Normal People.
Very informative, thank you!
Instead of a trap primer I just use vegetable oil in the trap so it doesn’t evaporate.
I like the use of mineral oil as it does not evaporate either nor will it go rancid
Of course they’ll both evaporate eventually, and you’ll have to keep maintaining it- just one more thing to worry about imho
@@HomePerformance yes so might just need to top it off once a year. Just had a thought how do you get down to the crawl space?
Interior hatch
Well done!
Thx Erik
Did you create the litter box idea yourself?
I’m sure I’m not the first, though I’d never heard of it before. Like the way we all invented holding our shirtsleeve while putting on a jacket.
It'll be really interesting to find out what the dry condensate line winds up being a consequence from. It could be the ERV just isn't seeing a temperature delta large enough to drop vapor pressure below the saturation point; it's evaporating and being carried in the air faster than it's condensing. You could try for a couple days in the winter raising temperature until the outside air being brought in is below the dew point of your interior temperature. Same thing in reverse with the AC in the summer if you're having the same issue then too. Not a permanent solution, but then at least you'll know it's not an issue with the ERV itself.
Your Mitsubishi AHU that's in the crawl space needs a condensate line, right? Why not run that also into the same trap as the ERV condensate?
They all run into the same condensate pump, including dehumidifier. But neither A/C nor dehum produce condensate in winter.
@@HomePerformance
I had been considering running the condensate lines into a gray water line as a small supplement to water the garden, versus running it into the sewer. I think it's a happy accident where it also proves a simpler solution to what would have otherwise been a similar issue.
How is the ventilation system tied into the A/C system? Are they completely independent with two distinct duct systems? I’m confused. Can you offer insights?
What is your opinion on air purifiers that use zeolite? It's the same substance used in oxygen concentrators and in water purification.
I’d say anything that uses chemicals or chemistry is suspicious. Why do they use it? What is it’s purpose?
@@HomePerformance zeolite supposedly scrubs the air of VOCs that activated carbon cannot, like formaldehyde. It is safely used in oxygen concentrators that COPD patients use. Austin Air and IQ air are the only brands I am aware of that use both zeolite and activated carbon combined with true HEPA filters. As far as I know, it doesn't produce ozone or free radicals.
Interesting- apparently perlite and clay has a similar property re: ozone
Air tight is not always a good thing.
We will require examples please
Another great video sir. One thing How do you Handel the humidity in the bath? Does the erv pull enough air out to keep the mirror from steaming up? Or do you let it distribute threw the house and the dehumidifier takes care of it with that low 40% rh you have?
Adam, the constant exhaust absolutely pulls the humidity out. Easy peasy.
@@HomePerformance would the erv transfer the bathroom humidity (that you want to get rid of) into the fresh incoming air, thereby recirculating the unwanted humidity?
I’ll do a whole separate video for you, but short answer is YES. How many hours do you have showering happening in your home daily? Let’s be insane and say there’s a solid hour of steamy showers every day. That leaves 23 hours, or 96% of every day where we don’t have to worry about it. Your question is VERY common, and I don’t understand how everyone got focused on a measly 4% scenario.
My real problem according to the air things is the co2 levels in the house. In my bedroom it’s 2 degrees hotter in the summer and cooler in the winter than the rest of the house. Winter I enjoy. Summer is okay. I think I know the problem the duck work. I would like to get the humidity down from 50 to 40 percent and raise the temp set point. That seems to me to be nirvana.
@@HomePerformance good point. Your insane scenario is just my wife enjoying her shower. Then there's 4 more of us taking showers. Your point still stands, I just wasn't sure how measly the steamy bathroom would be.
Do you do consults in Chicago?
I consult by video for very nice people all over the world! How can I help you?
@@HomePerformance My house is making me ill. Traced it back to the HVAC system this winter, had ducts cleaned and made some other changes, better but not 100%. Tri-level, never evenly heated or cooled. Not enough room for HVAC system / ductwork in lower level, furnace starved for air, bad design. Was going to go to all Mitsubishi heat pumps zoned mini-splits, get rid of old ductwork. Then spray foam attic to address issues there. Then possibly a small ERV. 45 yr old house. Not sure it is worth the investment. Any other options?
It would take at least an hour discussion and tour to be able to formulate options snd their predictable side effects- if you want to book a time, here’s the link:
buildingperformanceworkshop.com/video-consulting
@@HomePerformance Thanks, going to book.
Put the babies in more videos it’s great. I love seeing father’s spending time with there kids.
Thx Jonathan