A full video on UA-cam again?? Thank you!!! Wife and I loved watching them together. Now I gotta wait all day so we can watch this after putting the toddler to bed 🤣
You have a toddler 🥰 CONGRATS mom, dad & all loved ones! PRAISE THE LORD!! 👏👏👏👏. My grandbabies are 2, 7mo & 5mo, collectively. WHAT A MASSIVE BLESSING!
Thanks for bringing back the full length video!! I always felt like I was missing the greater context and flow of the conversation with the short videos.
Love what you all do at Holy Post. You have my financial support and respect. For years I felt isolated being concerned about the environment, poverty, racism (plus being charismatic), as if I "lived on the other side of the evangelical tracks." Author Mark Noll's book "The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind," where he concludes that the problem is there is no evangelical mind seems so relevant. Thanks for opening the windows and letting in the breeze of thoughtful, engaging INTELLIGENCE!
Kaitlyn (sorry if that was spelled wrong!) - what you said about the cycles of doing good/seeming or real failure/giving up or continuing....that was exactly what I needed to hear, right now! I wish I was attending your church and could hear that sermon. Those words feel so incredibly timely and encouraging. Thank you for faithfully sharing the Word.
My favorite kids being kids story was our daughter, out fishing with my wife, angrily berating the fish for not being caught because she was hungry. (Probably more tired than hungry, she wasn’t eating her snacks, but…)
1:15:50 -- "The dwelling of God is with humans, and not the dwelling humans is with God. So we've told the story the wrong way around." Powerful insight.
I don’t think it’s the politics per se, it’s the huge gap between the politics and the preaching. If we aim to be the perfected people, reborn in the image of God, and we support… very, very much less than perfect things, even beyond typical human fallen nature, the cognitive dissonance hurts. I get it with the opposition to abortion, but there is more to our faith than that single issue and throwing out seemingly everything else for that one issue is not going to convince people they are acting faithfully.
The fundamental problem with the study that "religious people" volunteer more and donate more is that it doesn't exclude money and time given to churches. Who gives more money to the homeless? Who spends more time helping to feed people? The LDS are considered the "most generous" because they give 10% of their income to their church. Which then hoards it. They have 100 billion hoarded away and give away maybe 1 billion per year. At least 99% of the money the LDS give to their church is squandered. But they consider themselves as having done something because they gave to the church and got their temple recommend. The reason the far right is obsessed with the "family unit" despite Jesus saying "who is my brother, and sister and mother" is because they want to absolve themselves of responsibility for their neighbor. Which is why the LDS are not upset that their church hoards money. They don't want to house or feed the homeless. And that's the same for a lot of white evangelicals. I actually left my church after a member stepped on that landmine and it was just the last straw. Which worked out because my daughter likes the church we go to now and it's actually pretty good. She had been attending the church for awhile before I decided to go with her. The tithe is for the poor, not the church.
N.T. Wright speaks on contemporary idolatry: «This is something which is not just a rather unfortunate add-on to Christianity it is a denial of Christianity» (1:23:40). The problem is that the essence of Christianity can be understood in different ways by different people.
Thank you for the full length video! Can you guys get into the difference between people who identify as "evangelical" as opposed to just "Christian"? I have been listening for maybe 6-8 months now and I have heard you guys talk A LOT about evangelicals in this country, in politics, in statistics, and I am not clear on who meets the definition of evangelical. I have always identified as Christian but no one has ever asked me if I'm "evangelical" and I went to a Baptist church growing up (not Southern, this is suburban Chicago) and now I'm at a smaller-medium size church that removed the baptist title to become more nondenominational but still practices baptism by submersion. I have heard you mention "mainline" churches once in awhile but I'm not sure what that is compared to evangelical. It seems like it's mentioned in a lot of articles you ask reference but I don't see that label used much in other media (although I'm not a huge consumer of news or political media) Am I evangelical? How do I know?
"Evangelical" in itself is a rather squishy term to define. It was initially coined post-WW2 by Billy Graham and Harold Ockenga to describe the type of Protestant Christianity that focused on a literalist reading of Scripture and a "born again" experience (like the non-denom church you attend). They felt such a descriptor was necessary to distance themselves from the increasingly separatist "fundamentalists" who divided over and over again over one nuance or another. Mainline churches, OTOH, tend to refer to the older, more established Protestant denominations (with the exception of Southern Baptists): the United Church of Christ, the United Methodists, the Presbyterian Church in the USA, the American Baptist Churches (more likely to be found around Chicago...), the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. These churches tend to be more liberal on social issues as well as less strict in terms of Christian dogma and practice. Many of these denominations, most recently the United Methodist Church, have undergone schisms between their more conservative members and the larger body. In more recent years, the rise of organizations such as the Moral Majority have created a perceived marriage between "evangelical" churches and the Republican Party.
They actually have quite a few older episodes where they wrestle with this very thing. Go back through the episode history and you can find some interesting and helpful discussion. Theres Evangelical the historical/theological position, and there’s Evangelical the exit poll category.
If you guys haven't read the Great Dechuchring yet (Jim Davis and Michael Graham with Ryan Burge) or seen Dr. Ryan Burge's Graphs about Religion substack, you have to take a look - both sources have tons of actual fascinating survey data on many of these trends.
23:00 I would recommend Dr. Ryan Burge's book "the nones" he's an American Baptist pastor and Professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University. He's studying the religiously unaffiliated and I was at a presentation of his. Insanely fascinating data
Unfortunately, it looks like I can't do the follow thing since I Don't have iTunes. My podcast app downloads Apple podcasts, though, so I hope that at least helps.
[15:12] "Biologist and author Rupert Sheldrake" - the word _biologist_ is doing a lot of work there. _Professional crank_ is the term I would use. We've been rolling our collective eyes at him for decades. I do take exception to Phil's chain of logic, starting from philosophical naturalism, to consciousness that arises spontaneously from "lumps of matter coming together," to then "project that to everything in the universe." That leaves out a lot. It may be sound logic as described, but it isn't sound _science._ We still don't know how the brain or consciousness work, not really, but we've learned a heckuva lot about it since Descartes. Consciousness [in the a naturalistic view] is an emergent phenomenon, arising not from any ol' lumps of matter, but from the _unfathomable complexity_ of the primate brain. And it truly is unfathomably complex (as are the brains of many other animals that may or may not be conscious). That our brains can and do manifest a consciousness says _nothing at all_ about whether everything else, from rocks and seas to stars and galaxies, can do the same. (And by _complexity_ I don't just mean there are a lot of individual moving parts. Other systems can have those. It's the intimate, dense, near-instantaneous _interconnectedness_ of the neurons in a brain, like nothing else we've ever observed. This doesn't mean consciousness absolutely _requires_ huge bundles of organic neurons, just that we've seen no evidence of equivalent complexity anywhere else.) It is not modern philosophical naturalism, but _dualism_ - the starting assumption that the mind or soul is wholly separate from the brain - that gives rise to the animism of which you speak. The naturalist looks at rivers and storms and forests and planets and sees nothing comparable to a brain - but if you're a dualist, you don't believe a mind actually _needs_ for there to be anything analogous to a brain. (I honestly don't know if Sheldrake would call himself a philosophical naturalist. Doesn't matter. You can call yourself anything you like. He doesn't show the fruit.)
50:35> The "better, beautiful answer" is in scripture (i.e.: Romans, Daniel, Psalms, etc.) which tells us God appoints all nation's leaders (even of horrible character). The Trumper explanation Ive heard, (incldg from a popular, Trump- supportive YT pastor), in terms of how/why they feel free to badmouth Biden, tho Biden was appointed by God): "Well, sometimes God appoints nations leaders as a CURSE". Smh. 😮💨. ANyWay.... 56:15> NOOONE separates their ethics from their politics. As Christians-OF COURSE we want the laws of the land to align with GOD'S laws as much humanly possible. "God knows best on how we should live in this world." -Kaitlyn S. (Yes, I fully acknowledge that "Christian Nationalism has nothing to do with either. And Im aware of & am disgusted by he extreme, bizarre & blasphemous abuses). 👏👏👏👏👏 THANK YOU FOR THE FULL VID! Manoman....after the riddance of C. Taylor.😔(with ZERO warning, nor explanation, to boot😔), I was hanging by a thread. Then the short-clip-vid-only thing on top of it? NOPE..I was gone. I'm grateful God let me stumble upon this FULL ep. Im re-subbing. THANK YOU! Pls keep it. (Yes, I knew where to find whole eps. I found it but, in short, I couldn't get it worked out on my device).
The supposition of Dr Wright here is that God WANTS us to have human governing bodies, that they are somehow required for our order, and are to be desired... How does that work with the formation of Israel? Weren't they meant to be a nation ruled by God, not men, and then the Israelites disrespected God by demanding a king? That's how I was taught that story, wondering how that story fits in with this narrative.
Christians are not Israelites. That part was for Israelites at that particular time. The Bible should be read and interpreted in context - both cultural and time. The New Testament encourages us to pray for those in authority. Doesn't your view contradict this? My understanding is that the Bible was written to Israelites and that all scripture is not written to us but it was written for us.
Huh, never heard of modern scientists believing the sun had a consciousness / was itself alive. I have heard that there may be some micro or macroscopic life forms that evolved and live inside the atmosphere of the sun at extremely high Temps. But nothing about the sun itself being alive. That's wild.
I've watch so many fight for their basic human rights. the time has come where white man need to organize, raise money, get a pr firm hire lobbyist to have a voice in congress . just as women, blacks, gays and many others American had to do and continue to do. also as an American white man I'm tired of hearing how we feel left out and unworthy. turn your life over be strong. grow-up make changes. be better.
Religion has to decline for church to "Live Circumspect Of The World," #HoleyPostPodcast, especially since Jesus said (I'm paraphrasing) "If Man Don't Follow His Example Lifestyle We Can't Get To Father YHVH."
- the Sun God, is the reference to the exact Son of Man As the [fullness of time /not in the (fulness of time)::as to the real and actual description and definition -such of···
I'm thankful for 2 things: 1.) Your return to your three person post without the news of the butt. 2.) Donald Trump There was absolutely no amount of talking that would have convinced the world that evangelicals were ungodly like their cult following of Trump. God used Trump to divorce His Holy name away from the likes of evangelicalism.
@@michaelward7051 I Do Not Have An Opinion I Agree With The Holy Bible...It Is Written.Amos 8:11-12 and many more. Repent and trust Gods word not a political party like evangelical national have done.
A full video on UA-cam again?? Thank you!!! Wife and I loved watching them together. Now I gotta wait all day so we can watch this after putting the toddler to bed 🤣
You have a toddler 🥰 CONGRATS mom, dad & all loved ones! PRAISE THE LORD!! 👏👏👏👏.
My grandbabies are 2, 7mo & 5mo, collectively. WHAT A MASSIVE BLESSING!
Thank you for posting the full length videos again!!! THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! 💗💗
Yay!!! Thank you for bringing back the full length video!!!!!!
I thank you that you have returned to a long form video. XXX
Full length videos are the best. My employer blocks all podcast websites but allows youtube.
Thank you for adding the full video back!
It's welcoming to see full length videos again! Thank you!
I’m a simple man. I see N T Wright, I click!
His gift for making things clear is beautiful, I'm with you on that!
Whoop whoop, welcome back to UA-cam! 🎉🎉🎉
So glad to see this longer form type of video back! Thank you!
Thanks for bringing back the full length video!! I always felt like I was missing the greater context and flow of the conversation with the short videos.
Thank you for putting the whole video back on UA-cam!!!!!
So glad to have the full video back!
I always feel calmed and intellectually enriched listening to Dr Wright.
"Reenchant people to the Christian narrative" YES!!!
OK, "Curiously Kaitlyn" trailer is adorable. 🥰
You all were missed! Welcome back!
Love what you all do at Holy Post. You have my financial support and respect. For years I felt isolated being concerned about the environment, poverty, racism (plus being charismatic), as if I "lived on the other side of the evangelical tracks." Author Mark Noll's book "The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind," where he concludes that the problem is there is no evangelical mind seems so relevant. Thanks for opening the windows and letting in the breeze of thoughtful, engaging INTELLIGENCE!
Kaitlyn (sorry if that was spelled wrong!) - what you said about the cycles of doing good/seeming or real failure/giving up or continuing....that was exactly what I needed to hear, right now! I wish I was attending your church and could hear that sermon. Those words feel so incredibly timely and encouraging. Thank you for faithfully sharing the Word.
The full episode on UA-cam again!!! Yay!!!
What an excellent interview!! thank you so much and so glad to have your full episodes back on ytube!!
Yay! Thank you!
🎉Yay!!! Thank you!!! This is so much easier!😊
My favorite kids being kids story was our daughter, out fishing with my wife, angrily berating the fish for not being caught because she was hungry.
(Probably more tired than hungry, she wasn’t eating her snacks, but…)
You guys are back!!!! ❤❤❤❤❤
1:15:50 -- "The dwelling of God is with humans, and not the dwelling humans is with God. So we've told the story the wrong way around." Powerful insight.
To Phil's point, I know many people who have left their religion because their religion has turned into a political action group...
I don’t think it’s the politics per se, it’s the huge gap between the politics and the preaching.
If we aim to be the perfected people, reborn in the image of God, and we support… very, very much less than perfect things, even beyond typical human fallen nature, the cognitive dissonance hurts.
I get it with the opposition to abortion, but there is more to our faith than that single issue and throwing out seemingly everything else for that one issue is not going to convince people they are acting faithfully.
Awesome!
The fundamental problem with the study that "religious people" volunteer more and donate more is that it doesn't exclude money and time given to churches. Who gives more money to the homeless? Who spends more time helping to feed people?
The LDS are considered the "most generous" because they give 10% of their income to their church. Which then hoards it. They have 100 billion hoarded away and give away maybe 1 billion per year. At least 99% of the money the LDS give to their church is squandered. But they consider themselves as having done something because they gave to the church and got their temple recommend.
The reason the far right is obsessed with the "family unit" despite Jesus saying "who is my brother, and sister and mother" is because they want to absolve themselves of responsibility for their neighbor. Which is why the LDS are not upset that their church hoards money. They don't want to house or feed the homeless. And that's the same for a lot of white evangelicals. I actually left my church after a member stepped on that landmine and it was just the last straw. Which worked out because my daughter likes the church we go to now and it's actually pretty good. She had been attending the church for awhile before I decided to go with her.
The tithe is for the poor, not the church.
That is the cutest darn trailer I have ever heard ❤
My prayers have been answered 🙏 full episodes are are BACK on UA-cam. ❤❤❤
Next time you guys have N.T. Wright on the show (or any theological type), I'd love to hear Phil sit in on the conversation.
Oh, look, they're back with a full show.
Your podcast is so encouraging. Keep it up!
You three help keep me sane.
Oh my goodness I've missed the full length videos!
N.T. Wright speaks on contemporary idolatry: «This is something which is not just a rather unfortunate add-on to Christianity it is a denial of Christianity» (1:23:40).
The problem is that the essence of Christianity can be understood in different ways by different people.
@@michaelward7051lol don't you ever get tired of being wrong online?
Thank you for the full length video! Can you guys get into the difference between people who identify as "evangelical" as opposed to just "Christian"? I have been listening for maybe 6-8 months now and I have heard you guys talk A LOT about evangelicals in this country, in politics, in statistics, and I am not clear on who meets the definition of evangelical. I have always identified as Christian but no one has ever asked me if I'm "evangelical" and I went to a Baptist church growing up (not Southern, this is suburban Chicago) and now I'm at a smaller-medium size church that removed the baptist title to become more nondenominational but still practices baptism by submersion. I have heard you mention "mainline" churches once in awhile but I'm not sure what that is compared to evangelical. It seems like it's mentioned in a lot of articles you ask reference but I don't see that label used much in other media (although I'm not a huge consumer of news or political media) Am I evangelical? How do I know?
"Evangelical" in itself is a rather squishy term to define.
It was initially coined post-WW2 by Billy Graham and Harold Ockenga to describe the type of Protestant Christianity that focused on a literalist reading of Scripture and a "born again" experience (like the non-denom church you attend). They felt such a descriptor was necessary to distance themselves from the increasingly separatist "fundamentalists" who divided over and over again over one nuance or another.
Mainline churches, OTOH, tend to refer to the older, more established Protestant denominations (with the exception of Southern Baptists): the United Church of Christ, the United Methodists, the Presbyterian Church in the USA, the American Baptist Churches (more likely to be found around Chicago...), the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. These churches tend to be more liberal on social issues as well as less strict in terms of Christian dogma and practice. Many of these denominations, most recently the United Methodist Church, have undergone schisms between their more conservative members and the larger body.
In more recent years, the rise of organizations such as the Moral Majority have created a perceived marriage between "evangelical" churches and the Republican Party.
They actually have quite a few older episodes where they wrestle with this very thing. Go back through the episode history and you can find some interesting and helpful discussion.
Theres Evangelical the historical/theological position, and there’s Evangelical the exit poll category.
Yay!!! Thank goodness these are back. Watching on the patreon app is just not as good
If you guys haven't read the Great Dechuchring yet (Jim Davis and Michael Graham with Ryan Burge) or seen Dr. Ryan Burge's Graphs about Religion substack, you have to take a look - both sources have tons of actual fascinating survey data on many of these trends.
John Knox of the Scottish Reformation argued the acceptance of violent resistance
- the song SUBDIVISIONS/Rush (of the album 'Signals')
I think I have seen some of your references before. Prog rock on the brain?
First half of this podcast was very encouraging to me as I watch a portion of the church decend into inquisition level imperial madness.
i suggest looking into Panpsychism on something like the Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy.. and not popular mechanics.
Bibles and Sandals and Cheezits, oh my!
23:00 I would recommend Dr. Ryan Burge's book "the nones" he's an American Baptist pastor and Professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University.
He's studying the religiously unaffiliated and I was at a presentation of his. Insanely fascinating data
Thank you for the full video format again. I hated too say itt, but I missed News of the Butt....
I've missed the full-length vids, those short vids not cutting it. The "short-form" felt disjointed
Unfortunately, it looks like I can't do the follow thing since I Don't have iTunes. My podcast app downloads Apple podcasts, though, so I hope that at least helps.
I feel like Phil and Skye brought Kaitlyn on the show because they needed an adult to supervise.
[15:12] "Biologist and author Rupert Sheldrake" - the word _biologist_ is doing a lot of work there. _Professional crank_ is the term I would use. We've been rolling our collective eyes at him for decades.
I do take exception to Phil's chain of logic, starting from philosophical naturalism, to consciousness that arises spontaneously from "lumps of matter coming together," to then "project that to everything in the universe." That leaves out a lot. It may be sound logic as described, but it isn't sound _science._ We still don't know how the brain or consciousness work, not really, but we've learned a heckuva lot about it since Descartes. Consciousness [in the a naturalistic view] is an emergent phenomenon, arising not from any ol' lumps of matter, but from the _unfathomable complexity_ of the primate brain. And it truly is unfathomably complex (as are the brains of many other animals that may or may not be conscious). That our brains can and do manifest a consciousness says _nothing at all_ about whether everything else, from rocks and seas to stars and galaxies, can do the same.
(And by _complexity_ I don't just mean there are a lot of individual moving parts. Other systems can have those. It's the intimate, dense, near-instantaneous _interconnectedness_ of the neurons in a brain, like nothing else we've ever observed. This doesn't mean consciousness absolutely _requires_ huge bundles of organic neurons, just that we've seen no evidence of equivalent complexity anywhere else.)
It is not modern philosophical naturalism, but _dualism_ - the starting assumption that the mind or soul is wholly separate from the brain - that gives rise to the animism of which you speak. The naturalist looks at rivers and storms and forests and planets and sees nothing comparable to a brain - but if you're a dualist, you don't believe a mind actually _needs_ for there to be anything analogous to a brain.
(I honestly don't know if Sheldrake would call himself a philosophical naturalist. Doesn't matter. You can call yourself anything you like. He doesn't show the fruit.)
Glad you're back. Sorry to see Skye got demoted. He got second billing today below Kaitlyn in Phil's introduction.
50:35> The "better, beautiful answer" is in scripture (i.e.: Romans, Daniel, Psalms, etc.) which tells us God appoints all nation's leaders (even of horrible character).
The Trumper explanation Ive heard, (incldg from a popular, Trump-
supportive YT pastor), in terms of how/why they feel free to badmouth Biden, tho Biden was appointed by God):
"Well, sometimes God appoints nations leaders as a CURSE".
Smh. 😮💨. ANyWay....
56:15> NOOONE separates their ethics from their politics. As Christians-OF COURSE we want the laws of the land to align with GOD'S laws as much humanly possible.
"God knows best on how we should live in this world." -Kaitlyn S.
(Yes, I fully acknowledge that "Christian Nationalism has nothing to do with either. And Im aware of & am disgusted by he extreme, bizarre & blasphemous abuses).
👏👏👏👏👏 THANK YOU FOR THE FULL VID! Manoman....after the riddance of C. Taylor.😔(with ZERO warning, nor explanation, to boot😔), I was hanging by a thread. Then the short-clip-vid-only thing on top of it? NOPE..I was gone.
I'm grateful God let me stumble upon this FULL ep. Im re-subbing. THANK YOU! Pls keep it.
(Yes, I knew where to find whole eps. I found it but, in short, I couldn't get it worked out on my device).
"The Gamesters of Triskelion". So this is what you looked like when you had bodies.
Where was Taco the bell during the Florida Man story?
I’m gonna guess… eaten by a gator while on spring break?
The supposition of Dr Wright here is that God WANTS us to have human governing bodies, that they are somehow required for our order, and are to be desired... How does that work with the formation of Israel? Weren't they meant to be a nation ruled by God, not men, and then the Israelites disrespected God by demanding a king? That's how I was taught that story, wondering how that story fits in with this narrative.
Christians are not Israelites. That part was for Israelites at that particular time. The Bible should be read and interpreted in context - both cultural and time. The New Testament encourages us to pray for those in authority. Doesn't your view contradict this? My understanding is that the Bible was written to Israelites and that all scripture is not written to us but it was written for us.
Huh, never heard of modern scientists believing the sun had a consciousness / was itself alive. I have heard that there may be some micro or macroscopic life forms that evolved and live inside the atmosphere of the sun at extremely high Temps. But nothing about the sun itself being alive. That's wild.
- Baal perpetrated as the Sun God as within of The Old Testament record/s
I've watch so many fight for their basic human rights. the time has come where white man need to organize, raise money, get a pr firm hire lobbyist to have a voice in congress . just as women, blacks, gays and many others American had to do and continue to do. also as an American white man I'm tired of hearing how we feel left out and unworthy. turn your life over be strong. grow-up make changes. be better.
Religion has to decline for church to "Live Circumspect Of The World," #HoleyPostPodcast, especially since Jesus said (I'm paraphrasing) "If Man Don't Follow His Example Lifestyle We Can't Get To Father YHVH."
The Bible was KJV obviously..
- the Sun God, is the reference to the exact Son of Man As the [fullness of time /not in the (fulness of time)::as to the real and actual description and definition -such of···
I'm thankful for 2 things:
1.) Your return to your three person post without the news of the butt.
2.) Donald Trump
There was absolutely no amount of talking that would have convinced the world that evangelicals were ungodly like their cult following of Trump. God used Trump to divorce His Holy name away from the likes of evangelicalism.
@@michaelward7051you have no room whatsoever to call anyone else arrogant.
@@michaelward7051 I Do Not Have An Opinion I Agree With The Holy Bible...It Is Written.Amos 8:11-12 and many more. Repent and trust Gods word not a political party like evangelical national have done.
Lol Michael needs to get a life.