I've seen many knuckleball pitchers play through the years from Phil Niekro to former Red Sox pitcher Steven Wright. It's always been fascinating how well those pitchers have been able to throw that pitch effectively for the most part, how few pitchers today are able to throw it.
Dickey’s story is wild. Came into the league and his signing bonus was basically shredded to 10% of its original offer because they learned he had no UCL. No, he didn’t tear it. He was literally BORN WITHOUT ONE.
É curioso pq o efeito que ele se refere é o da "folha seca", que o Juninho pernambucano, Júnior, Beckham e o Petkovic são famosos por executar. O pombo sem asa é geralmente usado pra ilustrar um chute reto e muito forte, como os do Roberto Carlos (mas esse fazia umas absurdas que era mais como um slider, como a falta contra a França) e do Adriano.
@@retrorami exato kkk o folha seca é o que ele se refere, pombo sem asa a bola vai forte pra kct sem curva, reto e subindo. Se quisermos relacionarmos ao baseball seria a mítica rising fastball que faz a ilusão de que está subindo, porém não está.
I remember playing catch with my dad, after dinner. It was an everyday thing growing up. And the first time he throw me a knuckler. I remember looking at him like he just throw magic at me.
It is magic..in my case it was a shoulder injury that made me push the ball instead of flinging it.. I LOVED watching people just jump out of the path of it because they always just knew it was going to bean them.. lol
When one reads "Ball Four" by Jim Bouton, you'll see how much opposition coaches have to pitchers developing the knuckleball. It's a pitch you have to be totally dedicated to. And now with the heavy reliance on sabermetrics, it would be challenging for a knuckleball pitcher to get the innings necessary and the trust of a manager to be a starting pitcher and downright impossible to be a reliever.
Or the increased reliance on analytics and the improved technology could make it easier for pitchers to develop a knuckleball. When no one knew how it worked, coaches didn't wanna spend the time trying to figure it out but now that we know the physics behind it, it will be easier to teach.
@@moonswan7587the book’s a classic. It was my first real book, at the age of 10, about 30 years ago. Completely irreverent and inappropriate, but got me both massively into baseball and reading. Would totally recommend!
7:05 You kept saying 'vortex shredding' when you even showed the name in print as 'vortex shedding'. This phenomenon is the detachment of airflow from a non-streamlined surface. Otherwise, great video!
5:20: “So I’m walking a path with guardrails on either side of me” Idk but to me it looks more like you’ve got a dude violently vibrating trying to avoid the fences. Like the worst game of operation I’ve ever seen.
Gabe Seldin YESS BABY Imma cubs fan but I’m going to Oakland’s home opener vs the Astros to bring a garbage can and boo! (I was already going to the Bay Area for vacation over spring break)
Cubs MLB Perfect Inning Gaming go to Angel stadium too. It will be 90% Dodger fans to BOO the Eff out of them.. I hope we trash the field like 10 cent beer night but without the beer. if 10k people started to throw trash on the field, they’ll let the inmates (us) run the asylum (Angel Stadium).
The documentary Dickey was featured in (I think it’s actually called “Knuckleball”) is worth a watch. The knuckleball is a pitch for survival. It’s the pitch people work on when they’re on the verge of getting cut.
This was my primary pitch in high school too. I’ve watched every video on the pitch that exists on UA-cam and I love learning more about it. Great video!
When I was a kid in the mid 1950s, my friends and I bought Whiffle Balls and used to goof around throwing all sorts of pitches. I picked up the knuckler and it was almost impossible to catch. The Whiffle ball did what a baseball would do but much more intensive. I found a rising fastball, a ‘drop ball’, curves and other weird applications. Later in Babe Ruth League I was a sometimes pitcher with a fastball that wasn’t fast and a change up that was not much slower than my fastball. One day I decided to throw a knuckler and the manager came out to yell at me. So that was the only one I threw. (We were not allowed anything but fastballs and change ups.)
To add a little more context, lift force is created by 2 factors, airspeed and pressure difference. In the case of a plane, the wing is shaped in a specific way with a curved top of the wing and semi-flat bottom of the wing where the back of the wing points down. The air adheres to the curve at the top of the wing and speeds up. Two things happen because of this: 1. Since the airspeed on the bottom of the wing is slower than the airspeed on the top, the air pressure below the wing is higher than the air pressure above it(basically the air on the bottom of the wing is pushing the wing up more than the air on the top of the wing is pushing the wing down). This means that lift force is created in the upward direction. 2. Since the back of the wing is pointed downward, the fast air coming off of the wing is pointed in a downward direction, also adding to the lift force(newton's third law, all actions have an equal and opposite reaction. The air is pointed down, so it exerts an opposite force on the plane). Now to put that into perspective on a baseball, when a baseball spins, it creates a pressure difference between the sides of the ball by accelerating air in the direction of the spin(creating lower pressure) and by decelerating air on the opposite side of the ball(creating higher pressure. I definitely suggest looking up an image for this because it makes it much clearer.), leading the ball to travel in the direction that has lower pressure. The reason a knuckle ball is confusing is because despite not spinning, it moves erratically. (Also im not an expert in aerodynamics either, I just have tried to study it in my free time, so if anyone more experienced in that field would like to correct me or add to what i said, I would really appreciate it!)
Every other pitch has a spin rate, which could act as a gyroscope, helping the ball to retain it's tracking and stability as it flies through the air. Mr. Knuckler has no gyro action and cuts through the air at it's own whims.
I've gotten pretty good at throwing the knuckleball recently, been working on it for little over a year. Thank you for covering this lesser-known topic!
Great video m8. Only thing you got wrong is that the brazilian expression is "pombo SEM asa" (dove without wings) rather than "pombo se asa" (dove if wing). Minor detail tho, keep up the good job. Cheers from Brazil
I had the fastest knuckle ball on record at a KY showcase in 2000... 88mph knuckle ball... the scouts thought I was throwing a fork ball, so I had to show them my grip and how I was doing my delivery... the poor catcher didn't catch a single ball I think....lol
I can tell you why you haven't seen a 90 mph Knuckleball. It's how you're holding the ball for one. You can't get a lot of throwing power that way, plus if you try to throw it too hard it has a tendency to want to fly out of your hand before you want it too because it's not a great grip. You can throw them at slower speeds than claimed too. Probably faster also but it's hard to reach those speeds because of the grip on the ball. The only reason it's doing what it's doing is because you're trying to get no spin on the ball.
When I was in adult league I threw a 45-50 mph knuckleball and it bobbed all over the place. So 60-70 mph is not necessary to get it to move as your video indicated.
Never pitched but i did play Volleyball and was a jump float specialist at the serve line. That's our knuckleball. (Im early in the vid sorry if he mentions that later) My whole schtick was making the ball drop/stop. I didn't really know what i was doing at first but as i got better and got more control it got really deadly. I assume (based on the sports mentioned) it has to do with speed and distance. In tennis, basketball, etc. Its either very hard to move the ball without spin (like in tennis), or the ball rarely moves far enough for the effect to kick in. The float serve is still fast albeit no where near as fast as top spin jumpers. Knuckleballs still can hit 70+ mph. Idk cricket or soccer info but i can presume its the same.
Understanding knuckleball mechanics is one of the problems that inspired me to major in Mech & Aero Engineering in college. I finally figured it out in my senior year when I took my 2nd semester fluid dynamics class. It has everything to do with Reynolds Number and vortex shedding, so it's too bad the video didn't discuss that.
The reason R.A.Dickey's knuckleball was so effective is the very same reason he walked so few batters during his fifteen year career. Dickey's knuckleball was thrown right at the top of the optimal spectrum (67-78MPH) averaging 79 MPH. It's crazy to think a baseball moving sixteen MPH slower than a 95 MPH fastball with no spin, could be so damn effective. Physics is truly astounding.
I’ve seen it happen in hockey. The knuckle puck is not a thing. But I’ve had a puck shot flat faced accidentally and it went all over like a knuckle ball.
One of the key factors HAS to be that it's played outdoors. Minor changes in wind must facilitate more extreme and chaotic movement. In volleyball you get massive knuckling but that's because the ball is often hit with little to no spin, I would guess that outdoor volleyball has even more severe chaotic motion.
Boy my catchers HATED catching mine. Usually threw it between slow, slower and ridiculous. 70mph to 40mph. My catcher actually used a softball outfielder glove over a mitt. Of course he hated me when I would sneak a fastball in there.
Wilbur Wood, knuckleduster, won 20 games four years in a row from 1971-1974 starting 184 games in those four years. ERA's of 1.91, 2.51, 3.46 & 3.60 during that stretch. Arguably the greatest stretch of knuckleballing in MLB history.
Do you know what the French broadcasters called a Knuckleball when the Expos played in Montreal? They called it a Papillon. That is French for Butterfly.
The comment, we have never seen 90 mph knuckleballs. I've seen 95 mph repeatable knuckleballs back in 1999. In fact, I've seen 105 mph knuckleballs. The pitching machine we were working on threw them. I remember everybody who worked on the project were in awe of the curve on the ball but I kept saying, the ball isn't spinning. I proved that, that the ball wasn't spinning, and was in total awe that the pitch was 100% repeated. I could hammer nails with knuckleballs, if I put the ball in the machine exactly the same way.
@@Elijahgavi Long answer - The machine was probably, and still is, the most advanced pitching machine ever build. In my Ph.D. dissertation I become the first person to measure and determine the entire set of initial conditions put on a baseball. Not only did I measure the velocity vector precisely I measured the spin axis and spin rate exactly. I also am the first person to determine the three dimensional trajectory of pitched baseball in a live game. So this company builds this machine but they don't know what it is doing aerodynamically. So they track me and down and hire me for a summer. They used two spinning wheels and had a ball feeder that put the ball in the machine in the identical orientation every single time. At 95 mph the speed differential between the two wheels wasn't enough to put a fast spin on the ball. It would rotate about 1/2 revolution by the time it passed home plate. At 105 mph, it spun even less, a lot less. At 95mph, the it would drop lower than the gravitational arc and from the pitcher's point of view moved to the left. A not spin knuckleball is boring you really want about 1 to 1.5 revolutions.
One big difference between Dickey and other k-ballers was he consistently threw it at a higher velocity (77-80 MPH), which gave the hitter less time to track the pitch as it came into the plate. Another fun fact and probably the most intriguing: 𝑹𝑨 𝑫𝒊𝒄𝒌𝒆𝒚 𝒘𝒂𝒔 𝒃𝒐𝒓𝒏 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝒂 𝑼𝑪𝑳 𝒊𝒏 𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒑𝒊𝒕𝒄𝒉𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒆𝒍𝒃𝒐𝒘. Yes, you read that right, hence the bold font. This is a ligament that when torn or damaged can end a baseball career. It's also crucial to even turn a doorknob. Since Dickey didn't have the ligament and nobody told him he didn't have one or that he needed it for his arm to function normally, he just grew up as if it was there the whole time. Not only that, but he pushed the envelope and fooled his arm into pitching in professional baseball. Of course, he wasn't really fooling his arm because as I said, nobody knew his UCL wasn't there;.until draft day that is. The Texas Rangers drafted him 18th overall and offered him a $800K signing bonus. Well, seems some nosy, buzzkill doctor who should have minded his own beeswax called the Rangers and said: "Hey, would you make me the team doctor and pay me a sh|t ton of money if I told you a secret about your bigtime first rounder? I saw a photo of that kid and his arm looked strange. I suggest you send him in for some testing." OK, I made the part up about the MD wanting to be the team doctor (as far as I know), but the Rangers did listen to him and promptly followed his advice. Of course, you know the outcome. Rangers: "Hey Dickey! Not only should you not be able to pitch, but you shouldn't even be able to groom yourself with that arm! You tricked us and we aren't happy!" After finding out that RA had no idea his UCL was missing, they weren't as mad but they did drop their signing offer to $75K. What a sucker punch to the gut that was for RA. However, instead of hunting down said loud mouth doctor and whacking him like Morrie, he signed the offer with no bitterness and as we know, he went on to become the best K-baller in baseball for a few years and the only one to ever win a Cy Young. In that season, he was 20-6 with a 2.73 ERA. He pitched 233 innings, struck out 233, had 5 complete games and 2 shutouts. Yeah, the squirrely movement of a knuckleball is mind bending, but getting it to move like that at 78 MPH is mind blowing. Yes, other K-ballers could hit those velocities, but not on a regular basis and it would also flatten the pitch out, which wasn't good. While the knuckleball isn't supposed to move as erratically at the upper range, with Dickey, that wasn't the case. It was this that separated him from the rest. But, he unbelievably (and contradictory to the pitch he was throwing) had great control as well and didn't walk many hitters. Oh and I guess that missing a UCL might have had something to do with it too. DIckey retired very recently in 2017 at age 42. I have no doubt that he could go right back out there and pitch again with his rubber arm.
Man I'd love for dickey in his prime to be part of the current pitch staff... degrom dickey Syndergaard stroman and matz/wacha. Man o man thatd be a good staff
I'm a huge mets fan and when he was with us he was amazing in 2012. But he was such a humble , really humble, and appreciative guy to be where he was. The trade was worth it for both mets and Jays.
As a Twins fan, some of us were looking at his advanced stats and kinda thought a breakout might be coming. He gave up a lot of homeruns, but otherwise, he wasn't giving up a ton of hits. Also, part of the problem was perception. He was a reliever here, and would often come in with 2 on and no one out. Knuckleballers do tend to give up flyballs if the pitch doesn't move much, so those guys would score on sac flies. I was not surprised by his success and I was happy for him.
C'mon guys, seriously? Nobody's posted the Bob Uecker quote yet? Shameful. Anyway, "The way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until it stops rolling and then pick it up".
There's a far simpler explanation for the movement of a knuckleball and how it differs from all other pitches. Simply put, a knuckleball has no stabilizing spin. All other pitches do. Even a sharp-breaking curveball or slider has "stabilizing spin". The ball, predictably, always moves in the direction of the spin. It never goes the opposite way of its spin. A fastball has stabilizing spin. The upward spin prevents the ball from breaking left or right and it somewhat counteracts the effect of gravity. If there is a lot of upward spin on a fastball, it can seem to the batter that the ball "rises". But it actually doesn't rise. What is actually happening is that the ball doesn't dip as much as the batter would expect. A spit ball was a slip pitch. The ball "slipped" out of the pitcher's hand with very little spin. This caused the ball to move erratically based on air currents and the effects of the airflow around the laces. Basically, a spit ball was a very hard knuckleball. When spit balls were made illegal, the splitter or fork ball was invented. Those are also slip pitches - especially the fork ball, which is an extreme version of a splitter. Some times the "movement" of a knuckleball is partly an illusion. The ball might depart the pitchers hand with a very slow roll to the right for instance and, during it's trajectory, that slow roll might stop or do a slight reversal. The ball actually doesn't deviate much from it's ballistic path, but it _seems_ like it is darting around only because the laces are rotating erratically. A rotating baseball is always on a continuous trajectory. There really is no such thing as a "late-breaking curveball". A baseball can't be on one ballistic path and then, suddenly switch to another. A late-breaking curveball is nothing more than a fast curveball with little break. It _appears_ that it breaks late. You'll never hear anybody describe a big, slow curve - like one that Clayton Kershaw often throws - as a late-breaking curveball. Now, everything I said above is not true for a knuckleball. Since it has little to no rotation, there is stabilization. This causes the ball to move erratically. Think of how much easier it is to ride a bike when the wheels are turning. The slower the wheels go the more difficult it is to ride the bike. It starts losing stability. Now, that is not a perfect analogy because there are gyroscopic effects associated with a bicycle . But, you get the idea. In short, the lack of stabilizing spin is WHY a knuckleball is erratic and the catcher has a difficult time catching it - even though it moves less than your average curve or slider. These latter two pitches are predictable due to their stabilizing spin. Think of the word "stabilizing" as "predictable".
This was very awesome. I swear, if science was explained more through sports, rather than abstract examples, a lot more people would understand it. Great job.
You left out Hoyt Wilhelm of the Baltimore Orioles. I think it was Gus Triandos, the catcher, had a special oversized catcher's mitt made so he wouldn't let any of Hoyt's "slow" knuckleballs get by him. And maybe for some psychological effect for the opposing team. "Hoyt Wilhelm threw a no-hitter against the Yankees on Sept. 20, 1958" at Baltimore, and he was the 1st pitcher to play in 1000 games.
I played catcher in baseball and goalie in hockey, I also played roller hockey I can tell you something about a roller puck being made of plastic and ball bearings was the most unpredictable thing I have ever seen. Neither me nor the the guy that ripped a good slap shot with one of those had a clue where it was going
Can’t be a baseball video without some shade thrown at the Astros Loved the vid man, I actually used to throw the knuckleball throughout highschool, it was my favorite pitch, I used it almost exclusively
I liked Dickey on the Mariners...but...Man do I hate that people seem to have forgotten about much better Knuckleballers like Tim Wakefield. Wakefield changed from a going nowhere Position Player in the Minors to becoming a Knuckleballer and wound up Third All Time for Wins in Red Sox History. Dickey had a One Year Anomaly of a season but gets all the love. It's insane. A Fluke season where his Stats don't match the Production. His Era was almost an entire run below his FIP. Kershaw had better Stats, but his Win Loss was only 14-9 compared to Dickey's 20-6. Kershaw got "Felix Hernandez'd" that year.
During a spring training game this season, Aaron Boone called Aroldis Chapman's new splitter a "knuckleball". Would Chapman's new pitch be a candidate for the first ever 90 MPH knuckleball?
Great Video. Some years ago, I use to follow Russ Springer of the CA Angels throw the knuckleball. He said he was failing his mechanics and ask Phil Niekro and Charlie Hough what he was doing wrong. They told him to throw slower. 65 and slower. As he did, his knuckler became better.
He and Tim Wakefield. The best two knucklers in recent memory. And Hoyt Wilhelm of the White Sox many years ago. And the Niekro Bros, my Ohio boys! Do dig the video of Charlie Hough @ 4:52 He was the Bartolo of the early 90's.
My opinion on why the knuckleball "knuckles" and why it's an effective pitch. If you put a baseball in a wind tunnel attached to a sensor support, you will find that a stationary baseball in certain positions can GENERATE A SIDEWAYS FORCE MORE THAN A SPINNING BASEBALL. The POSITION of the baseball is the most important factor... as you know so many times pitchers have thrown knuckleballs that don't knuckle... these non-knuckling balls many times result in homeruns. Now try the same with a smooth ball... no seams, no rough edges... like your kid's rubber ball. A stationary smooth ball will not knuckle no matter what the position. But a spinning smooth ball will always generate a sideways force. This everybody understands. So what generates the sudden movement of knuckleballs? The SEAMS on the baseball. Gravity is also a factor. When released by the pitcher, the ball will start dropping due to gravity. The knuckleballonly needs the flow of passing air to change on the ball a few degrees to get the maximum knuckle effecet on the ball. So the knuckleball pitcher tries to release a "stationary" ball with minimum movement... but as the ball approaches the plate, wrt to the air flow passing the ball, the amount of sideways force will change drastically as the ball approaches the plate... for the knuckleballer, when it's close to the plate. This is what the knuckleball pitcher strives for. If the ball breaks too soon before reaching the plate, the knuckleball would be nothing more that an outside or inside pitch... or often times,, a wild pitch. Remember... the baseball bat is 2 and 5/8 inches in diameter. The batter judges where the ball is going to be at the plate by the movement of the ball when it leaves the pitcher's hand as it travels to the plate. Any breaks or curve action is smooth. Batter can gauge. But if the knuckleball suddenly moves downward... left or right... mainly downward 3 inches 5 to 10 feet before crossing the plate, the batter will miss the baseball on his swing. Watch a knuckleball pitcher when he gets a new ball. He is always looking for a baseball with large seams.
Erg. You pronounced Charlie Hough wrong. It's said like "Huff," not "Hue". I'm 46 and grew up watching him. Perhaps you're just a bit too young to remember him. Otherwise, a good video.
Wins DO matter. How else do you expect to make the playoffs. Starting pitchers used to be highly motivated to pitch long and well in their starts, to win them, not this 'max effort' crap for 4 innings. I've watched baseball (and the Mets) since 1969 and this current 3 true outcomes game they play right now in 2020 is the worst, most boring version I've ever seen in my life, and I've seen lots of different styles at this point.
We're fans of some well-executed knuckleballs
MLB oh hey baseball
You know it’s a good video if the MLB comments on it
One thing Astros can’t hit
Yes, but I was under the impression that Dickey threw a no hitter on June 13th, 2012. Is that true?
@@tsfallout8178 😂 🤣😂 🤣😂 🤣😂 🤣😂 🤣😂 🤣😂 🤣😂 🤣
The knuckleball will always be a baseball gem, especially in OOTP. Great vid guys!
I've seen many knuckleball pitchers play through the years from Phil Niekro to former Red Sox pitcher Steven Wright. It's always been fascinating how well those pitchers have been able to throw that pitch effectively for the most part, how few pitchers today are able to throw it.
great vid. Charlie Hough is pronounced “huff” not “hugh” but a 99% is a good score. thanks for the great vids, ton of work you put in.
Hock
Dickey’s story is wild. Came into the league and his signing bonus was basically shredded to 10% of its original offer because they learned he had no UCL. No, he didn’t tear it. He was literally BORN WITHOUT ONE.
7:45 HAHA ASTROS JOKE LOL
I think this is the 3rd time I’ve watched this. So good.
I’ve seen a two-handed overhead throw on the basketball court cause the knuckleball’s characteristic flutter. Definitely can happen in golf too.
Bob Uecker: "The way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until it stops rolling and then pick it up."
7:04 it shows vortex shedding but he says shredding
Funny I put dudes on their heals with the knuckle
"Just a bit outside! He tried the corner and missed."
Lol
@@mikelbowers1366 heels, u aren't pitching against medics afaik
Wait, I thought I had Physics 2nd period
What's cyana award
Great video SRS! I've been a proud subscriber for the last year, and I've loved all the content! Keep it up!
Means a lot coming from you! Thanks a ton! ❤️
@@StarkRavingSports k
This is the man that kept Josh Thole (Catcher) employed
TheLeftSide like how Tim Wakefield kept Doug Mirabelli employed
Bartolo Colon is absolutely one of the wonders of baseball
He put big, fat guys on the map! Yeah. He even made behind the back tosses to get a runner.
@@rexyoshimoto4278 and dude could hit!
We need more knuckleballers in baseball.
I'm really suprised he didn't mention Phil Niekro aka "knucksie", or Tim Wakefield from Boston
@@matthewlewis9996 Or Jim Bouton, or Hoyt Wilhelm or Eddie Cicotte (his 1919 notoriety, notwithstanding)
In real baseball, absolutely. Not the show though
I have a 13 yr son that throws a knuckle, he even throws it while throwing longtoss. It's fun to see batters reactions.
We need more baseballers in knuckle.
It's pronounced Charlie Huff.
The knuckleball specialist.
These are the most important physics I ever Learned.
“just look for the seams and hit between them.” -harmon killebrew on how to hit a knuckleball
I'm really proud of you
We love you Sadman
and he did all this while missing the most important tendon in his arm.
Dudeman9339 actually makes it easier to throw a knuckleball. He’s not able to spin it or really throw with force
Nate Watkins Is that why he was able to throw up to 80mph?
I'm Brazilian and I absolutely lost it at the pombo sem asa reference
Hue hue hue
É curioso pq o efeito que ele se refere é o da "folha seca", que o Juninho pernambucano, Júnior, Beckham e o Petkovic são famosos por executar. O pombo sem asa é geralmente usado pra ilustrar um chute reto e muito forte, como os do Roberto Carlos (mas esse fazia umas absurdas que era mais como um slider, como a falta contra a França) e do Adriano.
@@retrorami exato kkk o folha seca é o que ele se refere, pombo sem asa a bola vai forte pra kct sem curva, reto e subindo. Se quisermos relacionarmos ao baseball seria a mítica rising fastball que faz a ilusão de que está subindo, porém não está.
Brazil needs to step up their baseball game.
I want to root for stars from Curritaba and Brasilia.
I remember playing catch with my dad, after dinner. It was an everyday thing growing up. And the first time he throw me a knuckler. I remember looking at him like he just throw magic at me.
MTG?
@@MystninjaNah, like the "pull a rabbit out of a hat kind of magic.
Last time I seen a rabbit in a hat. I was like. Hey where did you get that hat. Then it hoped away.
@@Mystninja = OMG, Last time I saw a rabbit, it was playing MTG. What are the odds¿?
It is magic..in my case it was a shoulder injury that made me push the ball instead of flinging it.. I LOVED watching people just jump out of the path of it because they always just knew it was going to bean them.. lol
When one reads "Ball Four" by Jim Bouton, you'll see how much opposition coaches have to pitchers developing the knuckleball. It's a pitch you have to be totally dedicated to. And now with the heavy reliance on sabermetrics, it would be challenging for a knuckleball pitcher to get the innings necessary and the trust of a manager to be a starting pitcher and downright impossible to be a reliever.
Or the increased reliance on analytics and the improved technology could make it easier for pitchers to develop a knuckleball. When no one knew how it worked, coaches didn't wanna spend the time trying to figure it out but now that we know the physics behind it, it will be easier to teach.
Do you recommend reading "Ball Four"? Jw surprisingly never heard of it
MooN SwaN I’ll recommend it.
@@moonswan7587the book’s a classic. It was my first real book, at the age of 10, about 30 years ago. Completely irreverent and inappropriate, but got me both massively into baseball and reading. Would totally recommend!
7:05 You kept saying 'vortex shredding' when you even showed the name in print as 'vortex shedding'. This phenomenon is the detachment of airflow from a non-streamlined surface. Otherwise, great video!
Dickey’s autobiography Wherever I wind up is absolutely amazing. Such a great guy
5:20: “So I’m walking a path with guardrails on either side of me” Idk but to me it looks more like you’ve got a dude violently vibrating trying to avoid the fences. Like the worst game of operation I’ve ever seen.
No lie, the Knuckle ball is my favorite thing in baseball. I LOVE it. Greetings from The Netherlands.
Ghostdialoog hey didi
who’s hype for the mlb season to start
Gabe Seldin meeee!😁
Gabe Seldin
YESS BABY
Imma cubs fan but I’m going to Oakland’s home opener vs the Astros to bring a garbage can and boo!
(I was already going to the Bay Area for vacation over spring break)
As a dodger fan that dropped 60k in 2017, 2018 for WS tickets and got cheated. I was happy they got eliminated quick.. I can’t afford it..
Cubs MLB Perfect Inning Gaming go to Angel stadium too. It will be 90% Dodger fans to BOO the Eff out of them.. I hope we trash the field like 10 cent beer night but without the beer. if 10k people started to throw trash on the field, they’ll let the inmates (us) run the asylum (Angel Stadium).
Marty McFly • 128 years ago i’ll be in new york cheering on my nats
"How cool is the term Vortex Shredding?"
Uhh it said vortex shedding but hey yk small details
Wondered if this comment would be here
I thought this was going to explain the knuckleball not give me a math lesson
The documentary Dickey was featured in (I think it’s actually called “Knuckleball”) is worth a watch. The knuckleball is a pitch for survival. It’s the pitch people work on when they’re on the verge of getting cut.
This was my primary pitch in high school too. I’ve watched every video on the pitch that exists on UA-cam and I love learning more about it. Great video!
interesting coincidence that my 5 wonders of baseball are exactly the same as yours
When I was a kid in the mid 1950s, my friends and I bought Whiffle Balls and used to goof around throwing all sorts of pitches. I picked up the knuckler and it was almost impossible to catch. The Whiffle ball did what a baseball would do but much more intensive. I found a rising fastball, a ‘drop ball’, curves and other weird applications. Later in Babe Ruth League I was a sometimes pitcher with a fastball that wasn’t fast and a change up that was not much slower than my fastball. One day I decided to throw a knuckler and the manager came out to yell at me. So that was the only one I threw. (We were not allowed anything but fastballs and change ups.)
To add a little more context, lift force is created by 2 factors, airspeed and pressure difference. In the case of a plane, the wing is shaped in a specific way with a curved top of the wing and semi-flat bottom of the wing where the back of the wing points down. The air adheres to the curve at the top of the wing and speeds up. Two things happen because of this: 1. Since the airspeed on the bottom of the wing is slower than the airspeed on the top, the air pressure below the wing is higher than the air pressure above it(basically the air on the bottom of the wing is pushing the wing up more than the air on the top of the wing is pushing the wing down). This means that lift force is created in the upward direction. 2. Since the back of the wing is pointed downward, the fast air coming off of the wing is pointed in a downward direction, also adding to the lift force(newton's third law, all actions have an equal and opposite reaction. The air is pointed down, so it exerts an opposite force on the plane). Now to put that into perspective on a baseball, when a baseball spins, it creates a pressure difference between the sides of the ball by accelerating air in the direction of the spin(creating lower pressure) and by decelerating air on the opposite side of the ball(creating higher pressure. I definitely suggest looking up an image for this because it makes it much clearer.), leading the ball to travel in the direction that has lower pressure. The reason a knuckle ball is confusing is because despite not spinning, it moves erratically. (Also im not an expert in aerodynamics either, I just have tried to study it in my free time, so if anyone more experienced in that field would like to correct me or add to what i said, I would really appreciate it!)
Every other pitch has a spin rate, which could act as a gyroscope, helping the ball to retain it's tracking and stability as it flies through the air. Mr. Knuckler has no gyro action and cuts through the air at it's own whims.
I've gotten pretty good at throwing the knuckleball recently, been working on it for little over a year. Thank you for covering this lesser-known topic!
Never thought I’d come across physics topics I’ve learned in school this year, but here we are
Great video m8. Only thing you got wrong is that the brazilian expression is "pombo SEM asa" (dove without wings) rather than "pombo se asa" (dove if wing). Minor detail tho, keep up the good job. Cheers from Brazil
Wait, there's "vortex shedding", and there's "vortex shredding".
Look at min 7:08. I'm going with vortex shedding.
I had the fastest knuckle ball on record at a KY showcase in 2000... 88mph knuckle ball... the scouts thought I was throwing a fork ball, so I had to show them my grip and how I was doing my delivery... the poor catcher didn't catch a single ball I think....lol
I can tell you why you haven't seen a 90 mph Knuckleball. It's how you're holding the ball for one. You can't get a lot of throwing power that way, plus if you try to throw it too hard it has a tendency to want to fly out of your hand before you want it too because it's not a great grip. You can throw them at slower speeds than claimed too. Probably faster also but it's hard to reach those speeds because of the grip on the ball. The only reason it's doing what it's doing is because you're trying to get no spin on the ball.
When I was in adult league I threw a 45-50 mph knuckleball and it bobbed all over the place. So 60-70 mph is not necessary to get it to move as your video indicated.
A good knuckleball is a beautiful thing i throw mine with 3 fingers and sometimes submarine cos nobody expects it
Real Radio Reingold: Jim was a pitcher for his high school team in Palatka so he knows all about this stuff.
Explaining the physics of the knuckleball is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
You can't practice hitting them. Add there is a psychological advantage. I tried to learn it and, fugettaboutit.
Never pitched but i did play Volleyball and was a jump float specialist at the serve line. That's our knuckleball. (Im early in the vid sorry if he mentions that later)
My whole schtick was making the ball drop/stop. I didn't really know what i was doing at first but as i got better and got more control it got really deadly.
I assume (based on the sports mentioned) it has to do with speed and distance.
In tennis, basketball, etc. Its either very hard to move the ball without spin (like in tennis), or the ball rarely moves far enough for the effect to kick in.
The float serve is still fast albeit no where near as fast as top spin jumpers. Knuckleballs still can hit 70+ mph. Idk cricket or soccer info but i can presume its the same.
I had high ceilings in my living room as a kid, no friends, no dad, home alone.. playing catch with myself, throwing knuckle balls only.
😔
Understanding knuckleball mechanics is one of the problems that inspired me to major in Mech & Aero Engineering in college. I finally figured it out in my senior year when I took my 2nd semester fluid dynamics class. It has everything to do with Reynolds Number and vortex shedding, so it's too bad the video didn't discuss that.
Just took fluid mechanics last year
The knuckleball is the most confusing pitch in baseball......but why
*Vsauce music*
I think its a great pitch anybody else use the two knuckle pitch because it is great underhand too
The reason R.A.Dickey's knuckleball was so effective is the very same reason he walked so few batters during his fifteen year career. Dickey's knuckleball was thrown right at the top of the optimal spectrum (67-78MPH) averaging 79 MPH.
It's crazy to think a baseball moving sixteen MPH slower than a 95 MPH fastball with no spin, could be so damn effective. Physics is truly astounding.
Question I can throw a knuckleball is it the grip that makes it move or the no spin
I’ve seen it happen in hockey. The knuckle puck is not a thing. But I’ve had a puck shot flat faced accidentally and it went all over like a knuckle ball.
Is that a mathematical equation …. written in Comic Sans?!?! WTF?
It's called football not soccer. Typical plastic fans always calling it soccer.
Was ready to argue the five wonders of baseball until you listed them
Tim Wakefeild.
The best knu kleballs in history.
There’s a reason there’s almost 0 knuckle ball pitchers in baseball
The only thing I learned is that Tim Wakefield is a badass.
One of the key factors HAS to be that it's played outdoors. Minor changes in wind must facilitate more extreme and chaotic movement. In volleyball you get massive knuckling but that's because the ball is often hit with little to no spin, I would guess that outdoor volleyball has even more severe chaotic motion.
In tennis a knuckle ball like thing can happen if u have side spin on a ball
Boy my catchers HATED catching mine. Usually threw it between slow, slower and ridiculous. 70mph to 40mph. My catcher actually used a softball outfielder glove over a mitt. Of course he hated me when I would sneak a fastball in there.
Did it move more the slower it was
Wilbur Wood, knuckleduster, won 20 games four years in a row from 1971-1974 starting 184 games in those four years. ERA's of 1.91, 2.51, 3.46 & 3.60 during that stretch. Arguably the greatest stretch of knuckleballing in MLB history.
I can help you solve one of those 5 wonders of baseball. Mike Trout. He does HGH. He's not a phenomenon.
Try again
As someone that can throw a knuckleball. Yep. It’s going somewhere.
Hale yeah!
Do you know what the French broadcasters called a Knuckleball when the Expos played in Montreal?
They called it a Papillon. That is French for Butterfly.
Now do one on the Screwball😁👍
The comment, we have never seen 90 mph knuckleballs. I've seen 95 mph repeatable knuckleballs back in 1999. In fact, I've seen 105 mph knuckleballs. The pitching machine we were working on threw them. I remember everybody who worked on the project were in awe of the curve on the ball but I kept saying, the ball isn't spinning. I proved that, that the ball wasn't spinning, and was in total awe that the pitch was 100% repeated. I could hammer nails with knuckleballs, if I put the ball in the machine exactly the same way.
How did it move ??
@@Elijahgavi Long answer - The machine was probably, and still is, the most advanced pitching machine ever build. In my Ph.D. dissertation I become the first person to measure and determine the entire set of initial conditions put on a baseball. Not only did I measure the velocity vector precisely I measured the spin axis and spin rate exactly. I also am the first person to determine the three dimensional trajectory of pitched baseball in a live game. So this company builds this machine but they don't know what it is doing aerodynamically. So they track me and down and hire me for a summer. They used two spinning wheels and had a ball feeder that put the ball in the machine in the identical orientation every single time. At 95 mph the speed differential between the two wheels wasn't enough to put a fast spin on the ball. It would rotate about 1/2 revolution by the time it passed home plate. At 105 mph, it spun even less, a lot less. At 95mph, the it would drop lower than the gravitational arc and from the pitcher's point of view moved to the left. A not spin knuckleball is boring you really want about 1 to 1.5 revolutions.
One big difference between Dickey and other k-ballers was he consistently threw it at a higher velocity (77-80 MPH), which gave the hitter less time to track the pitch as it came into the plate. Another fun fact and probably the most intriguing: 𝑹𝑨 𝑫𝒊𝒄𝒌𝒆𝒚 𝒘𝒂𝒔 𝒃𝒐𝒓𝒏 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝒂 𝑼𝑪𝑳 𝒊𝒏 𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒑𝒊𝒕𝒄𝒉𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒆𝒍𝒃𝒐𝒘. Yes, you read that right, hence the bold font. This is a ligament that when torn or damaged can end a baseball career. It's also crucial to even turn a doorknob. Since Dickey didn't have the ligament and nobody told him he didn't have one or that he needed it for his arm to function normally, he just grew up as if it was there the whole time. Not only that, but he pushed the envelope and fooled his arm into pitching in professional baseball. Of course, he wasn't really fooling his arm because as I said, nobody knew his UCL wasn't there;.until draft day that is. The Texas Rangers drafted him 18th overall and offered him a $800K signing bonus. Well, seems some nosy, buzzkill doctor who should have minded his own beeswax called the Rangers and said: "Hey, would you make me the team doctor and pay me a sh|t ton of money if I told you a secret about your bigtime first rounder? I saw a photo of that kid and his arm looked strange. I suggest you send him in for some testing." OK, I made the part up about the MD wanting to be the team doctor (as far as I know), but the Rangers did listen to him and promptly followed his advice. Of course, you know the outcome. Rangers: "Hey Dickey! Not only should you not be able to pitch, but you shouldn't even be able to groom yourself with that arm! You tricked us and we aren't happy!" After finding out that RA had no idea his UCL was missing, they weren't as mad but they did drop their signing offer to $75K. What a sucker punch to the gut that was for RA. However, instead of hunting down said loud mouth doctor and whacking him like Morrie, he signed the offer with no bitterness and as we know, he went on to become the best K-baller in baseball for a few years and the only one to ever win a Cy Young. In that season, he was 20-6 with a 2.73 ERA. He pitched 233 innings, struck out 233, had 5 complete games and 2 shutouts.
Yeah, the squirrely movement of a knuckleball is mind bending, but getting it to move like that at 78 MPH is mind blowing. Yes, other K-ballers could hit those velocities, but not on a regular basis and it would also flatten the pitch out, which wasn't good. While the knuckleball isn't supposed to move as erratically at the upper range, with Dickey, that wasn't the case. It was this that separated him from the rest. But, he unbelievably (and contradictory to the pitch he was throwing) had great control as well and didn't walk many hitters. Oh and I guess that missing a UCL might have had something to do with it too. DIckey retired very recently in 2017 at age 42. I have no doubt that he could go right back out there and pitch again with his rubber arm.
Man I'd love for dickey in his prime to be part of the current pitch staff... degrom dickey Syndergaard stroman and matz/wacha. Man o man thatd be a good staff
I'm a huge mets fan and when he was with us he was amazing in 2012. But he was such a humble , really humble, and appreciative guy to be where he was. The trade was worth it for both mets and Jays.
As a Twins fan, some of us were looking at his advanced stats and kinda thought a breakout might be coming. He gave up a lot of homeruns, but otherwise, he wasn't giving up a ton of hits. Also, part of the problem was perception. He was a reliever here, and would often come in with 2 on and no one out. Knuckleballers do tend to give up flyballs if the pitch doesn't move much, so those guys would score on sac flies. I was not surprised by his success and I was happy for him.
thanks for reminding me of the nightmare of college math shit. great video
Bro my man turned into mat pat
Love this vid
What about Tim Wakefield?
C'mon guys, seriously? Nobody's posted the Bob Uecker quote yet? Shameful.
Anyway, "The way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until it stops rolling and then pick it up".
Dickeys warm up music with the Jay's was the theme to game of thrones.
There's a far simpler explanation for the movement of a knuckleball and how it differs from all other pitches. Simply put, a knuckleball has no stabilizing spin. All other pitches do. Even a sharp-breaking curveball or slider has "stabilizing spin". The ball, predictably, always moves in the direction of the spin. It never goes the opposite way of its spin. A fastball has stabilizing spin. The upward spin prevents the ball from breaking left or right and it somewhat counteracts the effect of gravity. If there is a lot of upward spin on a fastball, it can seem to the batter that the ball "rises". But it actually doesn't rise. What is actually happening is that the ball doesn't dip as much as the batter would expect.
A spit ball was a slip pitch. The ball "slipped" out of the pitcher's hand with very little spin. This caused the ball to move erratically based on air currents and the effects of the airflow around the laces. Basically, a spit ball was a very hard knuckleball. When spit balls were made illegal, the splitter or fork ball was invented. Those are also slip pitches - especially the fork ball, which is an extreme version of a splitter.
Some times the "movement" of a knuckleball is partly an illusion. The ball might depart the pitchers hand with a very slow roll to the right for instance and, during it's trajectory, that slow roll might stop or do a slight reversal. The ball actually doesn't deviate much from it's ballistic path, but it _seems_ like it is darting around only because the laces are rotating erratically.
A rotating baseball is always on a continuous trajectory. There really is no such thing as a "late-breaking curveball". A baseball can't be on one ballistic path and then, suddenly switch to another. A late-breaking curveball is nothing more than a fast curveball with little break. It _appears_ that it breaks late. You'll never hear anybody describe a big, slow curve - like one that Clayton Kershaw often throws - as a late-breaking curveball.
Now, everything I said above is not true for a knuckleball. Since it has little to no rotation, there is stabilization. This causes the ball to move erratically. Think of how much easier it is to ride a bike when the wheels are turning. The slower the wheels go the more difficult it is to ride the bike. It starts losing stability. Now, that is not a perfect analogy because there are gyroscopic effects associated with a bicycle . But, you get the idea.
In short, the lack of stabilizing spin is WHY a knuckleball is erratic and the catcher has a difficult time catching it - even though it moves less than your average curve or slider. These latter two pitches are predictable due to their stabilizing spin. Think of the word "stabilizing" as "predictable".
damn srs out here giving us math lessons
Excellent video. I love knuckleballers! (Willie Hernandez, Detroit Tigers 1984)
Great stuff! Thanks for putting this together!
This was very awesome. I swear, if science was explained more through sports, rather than abstract examples, a lot more people would understand it. Great job.
You left out Hoyt Wilhelm of the Baltimore Orioles. I think it was Gus Triandos, the catcher, had a special oversized catcher's mitt made so he wouldn't let any of Hoyt's "slow" knuckleballs get by him. And maybe for some psychological effect for the opposing team. "Hoyt Wilhelm threw a no-hitter against the Yankees on Sept. 20, 1958" at Baltimore, and he was the 1st pitcher to play in 1000 games.
Charlie Hough had a hell of a career relying on the knuckleball...compare his numbers to Dickey’s ...Charlie even had 61 saves...
I played catcher in baseball and goalie in hockey, I also played roller hockey I can tell you something about a roller puck being made of plastic and ball bearings was the most unpredictable thing I have ever seen. Neither me nor the the guy that ripped a good slap shot with one of those had a clue where it was going
Vortex shedding, yep: partial differential equations.
Fun stuff.
By the way, it's shedding, not shredding.
Can’t be a baseball video without some shade thrown at the Astros
Loved the vid man, I actually used to throw the knuckleball throughout highschool, it was my favorite pitch, I used it almost exclusively
Found it really helpful in my daughters physics class. Thanks a lot for putting this together.
Hmmm...you missed someone.
44 G, 42 GS, 1.91 ERA, 189 ERA+, 1.000 WHIP: Wilbur Wood, 1971 White Sox
Definitely better than all the seasons displayed at 10:50!
I liked Dickey on the Mariners...but...Man do I hate that people seem to have forgotten about much better Knuckleballers like Tim Wakefield. Wakefield changed from a going nowhere Position Player in the Minors to becoming a Knuckleballer and wound up Third All Time for Wins in Red Sox History.
Dickey had a One Year Anomaly of a season but gets all the love. It's insane. A Fluke season where his Stats don't match the Production. His Era was almost an entire run below his FIP. Kershaw had better Stats, but his Win Loss was only 14-9 compared to Dickey's 20-6. Kershaw got "Felix Hernandez'd" that year.
During a spring training game this season, Aaron Boone called Aroldis Chapman's new splitter a "knuckleball". Would Chapman's new pitch be a candidate for the first ever 90 MPH knuckleball?
Great Video. Some years ago, I use to follow Russ Springer of the CA Angels throw the knuckleball. He said he was failing his mechanics and ask Phil Niekro and Charlie Hough what he was doing wrong. They told him to throw slower. 65 and slower. As he did, his knuckler became better.
I'm just glad he didn't get hockey's knucklepuck involved. Because that's just a whole other variable altogether.
Due to Wuhan Flu, COVID-19, "The Beer Bug", "Bat Stew Flu", etc., Baseball Season will be replaced with on-line Physics Courses.
He and Tim Wakefield. The best two knucklers in recent memory.
And Hoyt Wilhelm of the White Sox many years ago. And the Niekro Bros, my Ohio boys!
Do dig the video of Charlie Hough @ 4:52
He was the Bartolo of the early 90's.
My opinion on why the knuckleball "knuckles" and why it's an effective pitch. If you put a baseball in a wind tunnel attached to a sensor support, you will find that a stationary baseball in certain positions can GENERATE A SIDEWAYS FORCE MORE THAN A SPINNING BASEBALL. The POSITION of the baseball is the most important factor... as you know so many times pitchers have thrown knuckleballs that don't knuckle... these non-knuckling balls many times result in homeruns.
Now try the same with a smooth ball... no seams, no rough edges... like your kid's rubber ball. A stationary smooth ball will not knuckle no matter what the position. But a spinning smooth ball will always generate a sideways force. This everybody understands. So what generates the sudden movement of knuckleballs? The SEAMS on the baseball.
Gravity is also a factor. When released by the pitcher, the ball will start dropping due to gravity. The knuckleballonly needs the flow of passing air to change on the ball a few degrees to get the maximum knuckle effecet on the ball. So the knuckleball pitcher tries to release a "stationary" ball with minimum movement... but as the ball approaches the plate, wrt to the air flow passing the ball, the amount of sideways force will change drastically as the ball approaches the plate... for the knuckleballer, when it's close to the plate. This is what the knuckleball pitcher strives for. If the ball breaks too soon before reaching the plate, the knuckleball would be nothing more that an outside or inside pitch... or often times,, a wild pitch.
Remember... the baseball bat is 2 and 5/8 inches in diameter. The batter judges where the ball is going to be at the plate by the movement of the ball when it leaves the pitcher's hand as it travels to the plate. Any breaks or curve action is smooth. Batter can gauge. But if the knuckleball suddenly moves downward... left or right... mainly downward 3 inches 5 to 10 feet before crossing the plate, the batter will miss the baseball on his swing.
Watch a knuckleball pitcher when he gets a new ball. He is always looking for a baseball with large seams.
I subbed right after your 5 wonders of baseball. Nice work
Erg. You pronounced Charlie Hough wrong. It's said like "Huff," not "Hue". I'm 46 and grew up watching him. Perhaps you're just a bit too young to remember him. Otherwise, a good video.
Wins DO matter. How else do you expect to make the playoffs.
Starting pitchers used to be highly motivated to pitch long and well in their starts, to win them, not this 'max effort' crap for 4 innings.
I've watched baseball (and the Mets) since 1969 and this current 3 true outcomes game they play right now in 2020 is the worst, most boring version I've ever seen in my life, and I've seen lots of different styles at this point.