Charging an R12 auto air conditioning system. System was a can low so why not add some. It had been atleast six years since the system was even looked at. No obvious leeks were found.
I checked the pressures prior to the video with a set of manifold guages. Plus, I checked the supply and return temps as well. If the compressor is staying on but nothing is cooling and the condenser is not getting hot..... its either severely overcharged or the compressor is shot. Could also have a bad pressure switch that isnt kicking it out.....
@daddytech Ive seen it many times.... in fact ive jumpered my fan relay before only because the relay went and needed to get home after work then replaced it the next day. Ive seen the harness, relay and the wiring to the fan just melt sometimes. A good harness from the local salvage yard, some solder and shrink tubing and good as new. If you forget to turn the fan on you can overheat the engine..... not good either!
You are correct, if you listen closely you can hear it hiss when I hooked it up. Once it was tight I closed the valve on the can. I always purge my hoses especially when working with R134a or R410a air and or moisture can be a killer to those systems. I buy R12 when I need it even though some is pricey. You can find a sale or a good deal if you keep your eyes open. Garages and supply shops closing down....
If you have a sight glass like this car has, you want to see liquid flowing, but if you see bubbles it usually indicates an undercharged / contaminated system
I might be nitpicking but I like to let let the refrigerant slowly discharge from the can while I attach the hose to the low side. I do this to push out any air/moisture that is in the hose so it is not ingested into the A/C system. To answer other questions: yes, R12 is sold in some parts of the USA and can be obtained at major auto vendors for a hefty price and a 609 certification. Or you can find better pricing on CL or Ebay.
@1972FordF150 Thanks! If the system is working and just needs a top off i tell people to stick with the R12 till the system quits. I never had problems with any of my 12 systems like I do 134a.... I did all this when I was down south for a then, friend. 100 some degrees, doors up..... you crank that system on and it cools down the inside in no time! It is expensive to buy, anywhere from 24 to 54 a 12 oz can..... and you have to be licensed
With R12 in this Honda Civic, it was getting a vent temp of about 42 on a 90 degree day with humidity..... check and see what the vent temp is. If there is low humidity out, it wont sweat at all.... atleast thats how mine is.
how do you know what the proper level is? because my compressor engages and stays engaged, but the ac does not get nearly as cold as it should be and the lines dont sweat. i dont want to overcharge it
@More350Power yeah it's a good quick temporary fix but you deffinately don't want to leave it that way long. i don't know how many vehicles i've seen like that even on car lots where there's no excuse for that to be.
@daddytech No, that stray red wire actually runs inside for the fog light kit. That was the owners doing..... not mine lol. That wire would fry if it tried to power one of those fan motors.
and if it is working, the low side should be cool or cold depending on ambient temps and the high side should be hot, so hot you almost cant touch it.....
@1972FordF150 New old stock..... they quit making it as of 98 I believe or mebbe sooner. Which of your vehicles runs 12 still? If you ever feel like it, make an R12 can video......
Im about to attempt this today with the same hose kit as you. Did you have any issues with the hose not having a schrader valve? Ive read this is an issue with that yellow hose kit
I have seen where some of these kits dont have the schrader valve depressor. Luckily, this was an older stock item and I had no issues with this particular one.
@mbyr31 Ill take that R-12 kit off your hands if you dont need it. This system was in great condition. Had a new condenser and some other parts, YEARS ago. They all leak a little around the compressor shaft so in time they do need a little shot. I couldnt find any leaks on it. It may not have been fully charged to begin with. I would have converted it had I needed to replace major parts. I dont like 134a, i have never had a vehicle that I owned blow cold and if it did, not for long.
+Hamdan Alharbi well, if it has 134a and was done properly, it should have a sticker on it plus the service ports would be the quick connect style unlike the R12's threaded on ones....... 86 would originally have R12 in it.....
👉MrMister 1227. on a '92 Lincoln Town Car, air is pretty cool, but compressor cycles on and off to often, about every ten seconds. I have cans of R12 but the schreder valve on high side has a small leak, checked with soapy water. I can change the valve core with the tool I rent from AutoZone. My question, what are the chances of over pressuring if I don't use gages?
@More350Power Well, we don't have any cars that run R12 that I know of. Our Ford Galaxie now has no A/C anymore, and my moms 1997 Mazda 626 (666) probably has R134A but I could be wrong.
Vid might be old but is that a 92-93 civic? I still have the same r12 system in my civic and it hasn't ran for 5 years the ac when I bought it from my friend. I do think that it was working before until maybe the freon went out. I want to do this job on my civic but do I need to flush out the old ac and put leak protection on the r12 system? I don't want to part with the r12 system since it lasts longer than most r134a type ac out there. Some people are still selling r12 cans out there. Any tips?
The r12 ive had for years since all the cars I had were older. You can still find it, but its a bit expensive a can. The charge hose you can still sometimes find in auto parts stores or online. If it lost the freon that fast you got a look you need to find first. I look for oil on any connections of a leak detector. I dont recommend the leak sealer as that can plug up parts of the ac system. R12 doesnt use a high a pressure so if it leaks out, you got yourself a good leak. You want to make sure you are out and its not just a compressor or cycle switch malfunction. Yes that its a 92 civic.....
the ac does get cold. just not as cold as it should get. my instinct tells me its undercharged. i had a similar problem with a 98 honda accord...but that was with r134a.
When I added 12oz r12 to a pretty low system initially the can got very cold and dispensed into the system. After about 3 minutes it seemed to stop filling, a little over 2/3 of the can. At that point the hose split (it was old). I have another can and hose but now I'm afraid to open it if the system isn't going to 'suck' it up. I think I may have been too impatient. Should it take more then 5 minutes? The outside temperature was 62F. My vents are blowing 45f measured with a thermometer.
62 degrees, I dont know if I would have attempted to charge it at that cold of an ambient temperature. Not too cold, but...... Let me ask, how did you know when it was low on r12 ? If the outdoor ambient temp would have been 70 75 it may have taken in that can a lot faster as the unit would have had to run harder though not as hard as if the ambient temp were to be 80 and up. 45 degrees is not all that bad. I would hold off on putting another can in there. See how it does when it gets warmer outside. If its cooling and dripping condensate when its a humid day I would say you are good. It is hard to say for sure without using a set of manifold gauges to see how much the system has in it and how efficiently the system it pumping the refrigerant. I hope you were able to get the hose off quickly.... it might be bad to loose r12 but its worse if the system were to suck in air, which it can when you have an open low side ( charging side ) port on an ac system. Air in the system will make it cool inefficiently and the vent temp to fluctuate for a few...
More350Power Again, thank you. It's a used car I just bought in January. I knew it was low as there was only oil steaks in the sight glass. After that one can I can now see lots of bubbles as the compressor cycles. I bought the horror freight vacuum pump and vacuumed the system first. I think you are correct in that it may have been to chilly yesterday. I'll wait until it gets warmer and check for leaks in the next month.
bcbp14 Your welcome ! I forgot to ask if there was a sight glass.... that is the tell all with R12 and one of the things I loved. I dont know if I mentioned in the video.... but, you would see some liquid, then nothing.... then some bubbles then liquid. The bubbles are usually a sign that you have an undercharged system. When you are charging, you watch for the sight glass to turn to flowing liquid. That is usually a good indicator its fully charged. I know with central systems, you cannot even start the compressor unless its been 65 minimum outside. Vehicles, I try to wait till its 75, but with my guages ( which I didnt have with me ) and calculating the temperature with the low and high side temps, I can tell if a system is charged. Though, you will notice a performance decrease the warmer it gets when under charged. R12 if you have a relatively leak free system is one of the best ac systems out there. The system is under less pressure than 134a and transfers heat a lot better. 134a takes longer to cool down and doesnt blow as cold. Though, with a few tricks I got my 134a system blowing at about 38 to 40 degrees, 40 when its hot and humid out ;) enough to freeze you out lol
i have a 1982 g30 van, i have replaced the compressor with a new one and have flushed the old system out, i have enough r 12 to recharge it. how do i do it? i have the gauges and the vacuum pump.
R-12 was used in everything from dust-off to hairspray. The chemical is dichlorodifluormethane (ccl2f2) it also used to be used in vintage cans of dust-off (aka Dust Off II) and vintage air horn refills circa pre-1992. These aren't (technically sold) as R12, but are the exact same chemical R-12. A lot of collectors still have these lying around, and they're still full. This can top can fit on many, you can find "self-sealing" ones and a valve on E-Bay, or a side can tap. If one were inclined, they could keep these out of the landfill and atmosphere and use them in an R12 system. Remember - if it is low, something leaks (usually as simple as a schrader valve). On old compressors - the shaft seal can be leaking as well. I change every O-Ring I can get to (usually something on the suction side). Remember to repair everything, evacuate and test for leaks, and charge accurately (usually on a sticker on the hood, compressor, or shop manual). This chemical is very bad for the environment if it enters the atmosphere (it can be recovered if the system is not empty). It was phased out in 2010. It not only depletes the ozone, one can is equivalent to about 8 tons of CO2 in terms of climate change. Save the planet - If you have them, please use up the cans that are already there rusting (please don't use them as dust-off or air horn - use them in your old a/c instead). Even R134a is being phased out - as 1 can is equal to 1/2 ton CO2
Laws regarding certification for handling of refrigerants and professional A/C work vary from country to country. This is only technical data, I am not responsible for anything someone chooses to do. I do know that CFCs were a problem and it was good that they were phased out - so please make sure (regardless of law) that you prevent these chemicals from entering the atmosphere. Remember if an R12 system has not worked in a while, it is at least 30 years old. My friend had a Supra he got charged with R-12, after replacing every seal and valve and testing = the compressor hoses had leaked by the next morning. Repair all leaks before using ccl2f2 in your system - it should then keep this stuff in and out of the environment until the system is recovered. Many old products used R12 and were changed to R134a actually in the early 90s. The brand "Dust-Off" was difluoroethane (R152 I think) but switched back to 134a for some reason (I don't know why). In the 2000s, they started putting a bittering agent in it to keep kids from huffing it - so make sure the product you use is only what you want.
my charging hose doesn't have anything to press the schrader valve down on the low side port to open the system. What can I use or where could I buy? thx.
The charging hose / can tap I got from an auto store that had old stock... the R12 was left over from many many years ago. I also have a set of manifold gauges which were not shown in this video was well I got from an hvac tool supplier.
I also have seen that. When that happens it is sending liquid in, instead of a gas. It can be faster, but if you are not careful sending liquid to a compressor that is meant to compress a gas can damage if not destroy it. Ive always rotated the can from side to side which lets a small amount of liquid in, but at the same time, doesnt flood the compressor.
+MrMister1227 well, if it was low I would draw a vacuum on it and see if it holds..... if it doesnt it means it has a good leak and woudl not be worth wasting R12 to find it...... though. ALL open drive ac systems loose freon out of the front shaft seal on the compressors. Usually, if the system is otherwise healthy and you attach a can like this, it should pressurize the system enough to activate the clutch. If it does not........ I have bypassed the low side switch of a few seconds to draw in freon then let it run on its own....
MrMister1227 keep adding. You will hear it start to ingage. Buy one on eBay that has sealant. The compressor will start clicking on and off. Also you can convert to 134, buy changing the stem.
I never saw the above comment.... I never charge liquid on low side. ive seen too many disasters on cars and central home units. My unit being one when the tech over charged it and hammered the compressor.....
The is one other thing, the heater may not be shutting completely off which can cause the same thing...... if you turn the ac off and just run the vent, the temp should be about the same as the outside air....
Depends on how health the system is and how well the compressor is working. If it is short cycling ( kicking in and out but not cooling well ) It usually takes a few minutes, you dont want to rush it. You can tell when the can is empty by weight and if youve done it a few times, you can feel the can get cold as its taking the R12 in and once its empty it gets warm. Ambient temperature makes a difference. I believe it was mid eighties to ninties when I did this charge.
MrMister1227 sure thing ! R12 is R12, though not to be confused with "freeze 12". Many different companies have canned R12 Freon. I have the original Dupoint Igloo Freon 12 ( R12 ) and some others....... as long as you dont mix it with 134a etc..... ive not had a problem.
As mentioned, on ebay..... though sometimes you can find people that have an old mechanic shop, etc that may have some cans laying around, though, you will be lucky if they will part with it at a reasonable price.
R 12 is not a blend at all and the sight glass shows if there is air in the system or if it is low on charge, FACT It is also there for a multitude of other reasons.
You can find them online, though some are not of the highest quality and dont have the tip in the end of the hose that opens the schraeder core when you go to attach the hose and fails to charge the system.
Hi, I got 1990 Chevy blazer k5 with r12, with a bad compressor, im considering converting to 134a, any advise on which parts to change, and capacity of gas and oil that i should recharge with 134a? and what is the best pressure should look like at its best setup ,,,,, if there is any youtube clip doing so on chevy truck 80s it will be great Thanks
+Mohammed Al-Hawaj If you have a bad compressor, depending on what failed..... it could have left metal debris inside the system which isnt good. With that said, the O rings should all be changed to compatible 134a o rings, a new orifice tube or expansion valve if the system is equipped with such. You will also need a new accumulator which usually, if you purchase one for that system for 134a will already have the 134a service port on it. Also while the system is open you want to flush the lines out as well as the condenser / evaporator. Some designs to the condenser and evaporator do not allow for them to be flushed and should be replaced. Ultimately, you want all the debris and old mineral oil out of the system. This is what should be done to be thorough, but isnt always what most people do.
In my experience, with my cars over the years.... R12 not only would blow colder, it operated more efficiently in that it would cool down a hot car faster. I have had some 134a cars that, yea it blew cold, but not the ice cold I remember from R12 that would even frost over the windows on a humid night.
All ac automotive systems do loose some refrigerant over time. The front seal of the compressor always leaks some refrigerant/oil over the years as I was taught. I dont think the system was fully charged to begin with when it was replaced 6 or so years prior to me adding one can of R12. It never needed a charge again after I topped it off.
@@More350Power Yes, automotive systems do lose very small amounts of refrigerant over time, but a system with good seals and barrier hose can go over a decade before losing enough refrigerant to need a top-up. And we're talking a modern, critically-charged 134a system that holds a very minimal amount of refrigerant. A system in good shape should leak less than 1/4oz-yr. Normally what happens is that relatively large leak develops either at the shaft seal or at one of the fitting o-rings. A leak detector will find the leak, although you will usually have to pull the clutch off to sniff the shaft seal unless it has a large leak. Modern lip seals help a lot with leakage, although the reason why is misunderstood. Contrary to popular belief, carbon face seals don't leak more than lip seals during compressor operation or in the weeks following usage. It is the MONTHS following usage. When not in use, the refrigerant pressure in the crankcase slowly expels the miniscule amount of oil that seals the rotating carbon face to the lapped iron or ceramic face. Eventually, most of the oil is expelled and the refrigerant is then able to leak past the seal. The way to prevent this is simple: run the compressor for 5-10 minutes once per week during the cool season. That way the seal face will remain oiled, and refrigerant won't leak. The main reason for the invention of the lip seal is because it doesn't leak nearly as much after the oil is expelled. Once the oil has been pushed out of the lip, the lip itself still seals pretty well against the polished shaft surface.
A lot of the older systems had one and they were a good device to let you actually see what was happening. I miss these old systems.... While my current R134a system spits out ice cubes, it isnt anywhere near what the old R12 system was in my first car.
Plus, if you have an old system like this which ran R12 and it was converted to 134a without beinng properly prepared, it will cause the compressor to run non stop and no matter how much you charge or dont charge it wont cool..... end result is you destroy your compressor
You can find it online and some older garages/shops might still have some. Depending on how well you know them, they might not charge you an arm and a leg for it. Or you can do what I did when getting rid of a vehicle with R12.... I pumped its R12 into my daily, what was left of it and lasted till my daily died.
There is only one port the low side pressure port that they hose will connect to. If connected to the high side, it will blow up in your hand. Thank you for watching!
@mbyr31 Ill take that R-12 kit off your hands if you dont need it. This system was in great condition. Had a new condenser and some other parts, YEARS ago. They all leak a little around the compressor shaft so in time they do need a little shot. I couldnt find any leaks on it. It may not have been fully charged to begin with. I would have converted it had I needed to replace major parts. I dont like 134a, i have never had a vehicle that I owned blow cold and if it did, not for long.
I checked the pressures prior to the video with a set of manifold guages. Plus, I checked the supply and return temps as well. If the compressor is staying on but nothing is cooling and the condenser is not getting hot..... its either severely overcharged or the compressor is shot. Could also have a bad pressure switch that isnt kicking it out.....
Thank you for this video! Very helpful as I’ve never charged R12 before!
It doesnt take much in cars and all open drive compressors "leak" a little be design. The leak helps lubricate the front shaft seal.
This system being old R12 also had a sight glass which shows a lot about the system before even hooking guages up to it.
@daddytech Ive seen it many times.... in fact ive jumpered my fan relay before only because the relay went and needed to get home after work then replaced it the next day. Ive seen the harness, relay and the wiring to the fan just melt sometimes. A good harness from the local salvage yard, some solder and shrink tubing and good as new. If you forget to turn the fan on you can overheat the engine..... not good either!
You are correct, if you listen closely you can hear it hiss when I hooked it up. Once it was tight I closed the valve on the can. I always purge my hoses especially when working with R134a or R410a air and or moisture can be a killer to those systems. I buy R12 when I need it even though some is pricey. You can find a sale or a good deal if you keep your eyes open. Garages and supply shops closing down....
If you have a sight glass like this car has, you want to see liquid flowing, but if you see bubbles it usually indicates an undercharged / contaminated system
lol "Id like to take the spark plug out of that guys mowerr" had me cracking up at the end
I did and I was tempted LOL, every time I would try to make a video that mower was going.
@EmmaFromEngland Your right, it is expensive to charge a system, especially the old school R12. 134a is even getting expensive. Thanks Emma!
I might be nitpicking but I like to let let the refrigerant slowly discharge from the can while I attach the hose to the low side. I do this to push out any air/moisture that is in the hose so it is not ingested into the A/C system.
To answer other questions: yes, R12 is sold in some parts of the USA and can be obtained at major auto vendors for a hefty price and a 609 certification. Or you can find better pricing on CL or Ebay.
@More350Power No problem! we have several cans of R12 not sure where my dad got them. You can still buy cans of R12 new?
usually on or around the acumulator, that it can vary
@1972FordF150 Thanks! If the system is working and just needs a top off i tell people to stick with the R12 till the system quits. I never had problems with any of my 12 systems like I do 134a.... I did all this when I was down south for a then, friend. 100 some degrees, doors up..... you crank that system on and it cools down the inside in no time! It is expensive to buy, anywhere from 24 to 54 a 12 oz can..... and you have to be licensed
With R12 in this Honda Civic, it was getting a vent temp of about 42 on a 90 degree day with humidity..... check and see what the vent temp is. If there is low humidity out, it wont sweat at all.... atleast thats how mine is.
tell me that the stray red wire isn't the fan motor jumpered on that car?
Excellent video. Big help. Thanks.
Thank you for watching!
how do you know what the proper level is? because my compressor engages and stays engaged, but the ac does not get nearly as cold as it should be and the lines dont sweat. i dont want to overcharge it
@More350Power yeah it's a good quick temporary fix but you deffinately don't want to leave it that way long. i don't know how many vehicles i've seen like that even on car lots where there's no excuse for that to be.
@daddytech No, that stray red wire actually runs inside for the fog light kit. That was the owners doing..... not mine lol. That wire would fry if it tried to power one of those fan motors.
and if it is working, the low side should be cool or cold depending on ambient temps and the high side should be hot, so hot you almost cant touch it.....
@1972FordF150 New old stock..... they quit making it as of 98 I believe or mebbe sooner. Which of your vehicles runs 12 still? If you ever feel like it, make an R12 can video......
Im about to attempt this today with the same hose kit as you. Did you have any issues with the hose not having a schrader valve? Ive read this is an issue with that yellow hose kit
I have seen where some of these kits dont have the schrader valve depressor. Luckily, this was an older stock item and I had no issues with this particular one.
@mbyr31 Ill take that R-12 kit off your hands if you dont need it. This system was in great condition. Had a new condenser and some other parts, YEARS ago. They all leak a little around the compressor shaft so in time they do need a little shot. I couldnt find any leaks on it. It may not have been fully charged to begin with. I would have converted it had I needed to replace major parts. I dont like 134a, i have never had a vehicle that I owned blow cold and if it did, not for long.
@Syllablekillers Thanks man!
I have an 86 truck. I don't know if it still uses r12 or been covered to r134a. do you know of a way to tell which refrigerant is being used?
+Hamdan Alharbi well, if it has 134a and was done properly, it should have a sticker on it plus the service ports would be the quick connect style unlike the R12's threaded on ones....... 86 would originally have R12 in it.....
👉MrMister 1227. on a '92 Lincoln Town Car, air is pretty cool, but compressor cycles on and off to often, about every ten seconds. I have cans of R12 but the schreder valve on high side has a small leak, checked with soapy water. I can change the valve core with the tool I rent from AutoZone. My question, what are the chances of over pressuring if I don't use gages?
Good chance add slowly and check vent temps
@More350Power Well, we don't have any cars that run R12 that I know of. Our Ford Galaxie now has no A/C anymore, and my moms 1997 Mazda 626 (666) probably has R134A but I could be wrong.
That particular car I dont think has a sight glass, just a bulky aluminum acumulator.... similar to gm of that year.....
I have a 1974 monte carlo that uses r12, both ports are threaded the same, so how do I know which is the low port and the high port?
Gary Halstrom usually, the low side port is just a hair bigger than the high side.....
Where did you get the can connector. I have cases of r12 but don't have the adapter.
+J- Styga I have a few from years back that were handed down to me..... but I got this one from a local auto parts store..
unfortunately, it doesnt look like i have a sight glass....its an 88 grand marquis...you wouldnt happen to know if it has one do you?
Vid might be old but is that a 92-93 civic? I still have the same r12 system in my civic and it hasn't ran for 5 years the ac when I bought it from my friend. I do think that it was working before until maybe the freon went out. I want to do this job on my civic but do I need to flush out the old ac and put leak protection on the r12 system? I don't want to part with the r12 system since it lasts longer than most r134a type ac out there. Some people are still selling r12 cans out there. Any tips?
The r12 ive had for years since all the cars I had were older. You can still find it, but its a bit expensive a can. The charge hose you can still sometimes find in auto parts stores or online. If it lost the freon that fast you got a look you need to find first. I look for oil on any connections of a leak detector. I dont recommend the leak sealer as that can plug up parts of the ac system. R12 doesnt use a high a pressure so if it leaks out, you got yourself a good leak. You want to make sure you are out and its not just a compressor or cycle switch malfunction. Yes that its a 92 civic.....
the ac does get cold. just not as cold as it should get. my instinct tells me its undercharged. i had a similar problem with a 98 honda accord...but that was with r134a.
When I added 12oz r12 to a pretty low system initially the can got very cold and dispensed into the system. After about 3 minutes it seemed to stop filling, a little over 2/3 of the can. At that point the hose split (it was old).
I have another can and hose but now I'm afraid to open it if the system isn't going to 'suck' it up. I think I may have been too impatient. Should it take more then 5 minutes? The outside temperature was 62F. My vents are blowing 45f measured with a thermometer.
62 degrees, I dont know if I would have attempted to charge it at that cold of an ambient temperature. Not too cold, but...... Let me ask, how did you know when it was low on r12 ? If the outdoor ambient temp would have been 70 75 it may have taken in that can a lot faster as the unit would have had to run harder though not as hard as if the ambient temp were to be 80 and up. 45 degrees is not all that bad. I would hold off on putting another can in there. See how it does when it gets warmer outside. If its cooling and dripping condensate when its a humid day I would say you are good. It is hard to say for sure without using a set of manifold gauges to see how much the system has in it and how efficiently the system it pumping the refrigerant. I hope you were able to get the hose off quickly.... it might be bad to loose r12 but its worse if the system were to suck in air, which it can when you have an open low side ( charging side ) port on an ac system. Air in the system will make it cool inefficiently and the vent temp to fluctuate for a few...
More350Power Again, thank you. It's a used car I just bought in January. I knew it was low as there was only oil steaks in the sight glass. After that one can I can now see lots of bubbles as the compressor cycles. I bought the horror freight vacuum pump and vacuumed the system first. I think you are correct in that it may have been to chilly yesterday. I'll wait until it gets warmer and check for leaks in the next month.
bcbp14
Your welcome ! I forgot to ask if there was a sight glass.... that is the tell all with R12 and one of the things I loved. I dont know if I mentioned in the video.... but, you would see some liquid, then nothing.... then some bubbles then liquid. The bubbles are usually a sign that you have an undercharged system. When you are charging, you watch for the sight glass to turn to flowing liquid. That is usually a good indicator its fully charged. I know with central systems, you cannot even start the compressor unless its been 65 minimum outside. Vehicles, I try to wait till its 75, but with my guages ( which I didnt have with me ) and calculating the temperature with the low and high side temps, I can tell if a system is charged. Though, you will notice a performance decrease the warmer it gets when under charged. R12 if you have a relatively leak free system is one of the best ac systems out there. The system is under less pressure than 134a and transfers heat a lot better. 134a takes longer to cool down and doesnt blow as cold. Though, with a few tricks I got my 134a system blowing at about 38 to 40 degrees, 40 when its hot and humid out ;) enough to freeze you out lol
i have a 1982 g30 van, i have replaced the compressor with a new one and have flushed the old system out, i have enough r 12 to recharge it. how do i do it? i have the gauges and the vacuum pump.
Pull a good vacuum and make sure there are no leaks. Then add what the vehicle calls for or till you have a clear site glass
R-12 was used in everything from dust-off to hairspray. The chemical is dichlorodifluormethane (ccl2f2) it also used to be used in vintage cans of dust-off (aka Dust Off II) and vintage air horn refills circa pre-1992. These aren't (technically sold) as R12, but are the exact same chemical R-12. A lot of collectors still have these lying around, and they're still full. This can top can fit on many, you can find "self-sealing" ones and a valve on E-Bay, or a side can tap. If one were inclined, they could keep these out of the landfill and atmosphere and use them in an R12 system.
Remember - if it is low, something leaks (usually as simple as a schrader valve). On old compressors - the shaft seal can be leaking as well. I change every O-Ring I can get to (usually something on the suction side). Remember to repair everything, evacuate and test for leaks, and charge accurately (usually on a sticker on the hood, compressor, or shop manual).
This chemical is very bad for the environment if it enters the atmosphere (it can be recovered if the system is not empty). It was phased out in 2010. It not only depletes the ozone, one can is equivalent to about 8 tons of CO2 in terms of climate change. Save the planet - If you have them, please use up the cans that are already there rusting (please don't use them as dust-off or air horn - use them in your old a/c instead). Even R134a is being phased out - as 1 can is equal to 1/2 ton CO2
Laws regarding certification for handling of refrigerants and professional A/C work vary from country to country. This is only technical data, I am not responsible for anything someone chooses to do. I do know that CFCs were a problem and it was good that they were phased out - so please make sure (regardless of law) that you prevent these chemicals from entering the atmosphere.
Remember if an R12 system has not worked in a while, it is at least 30 years old. My friend had a Supra he got charged with R-12, after replacing every seal and valve and testing = the compressor hoses had leaked by the next morning. Repair all leaks before using ccl2f2 in your system - it should then keep this stuff in and out of the environment until the system is recovered.
Many old products used R12 and were changed to R134a actually in the early 90s. The brand "Dust-Off" was difluoroethane (R152 I think) but switched back to 134a for some reason (I don't know why). In the 2000s, they started putting a bittering agent in it to keep kids from huffing it - so make sure the product you use is only what you want.
Thank you for the information!
@@filter4now You don't need to add a disclaimer to your comment; you can't be held legally liable for giving information out.
my charging hose doesn't have anything to press the schrader valve down on the low side port to open the system. What can I use or where could I buy? thx.
It should have one. I have heard that there are some cheap hoses that do not come with a schrader valve depressor. It wont work without it.
Great video man I don't care for R134A much my self.
Did you purge the line of air before connecting the hose to the car?
Always do
Where do you get each of the component for are showing in this video? Thanks for all your help, Jim
The charging hose / can tap I got from an auto store that had old stock... the R12 was left over from many many years ago. I also have a set of manifold gauges which were not shown in this video was well I got from an hvac tool supplier.
I have seen people turn the can upside down. What are your thoughts?
I also have seen that. When that happens it is sending liquid in, instead of a gas. It can be faster, but if you are not careful sending liquid to a compressor that is meant to compress a gas can damage if not destroy it. Ive always rotated the can from side to side which lets a small amount of liquid in, but at the same time, doesnt flood the compressor.
Hello there, what if the system is so low on freon that the clutch doesn't engage?
+MrMister1227 well, if it was low I would draw a vacuum on it and see if it holds..... if it doesnt it means it has a good leak and woudl not be worth wasting R12 to find it...... though. ALL open drive ac systems loose freon out of the front shaft seal on the compressors. Usually, if the system is otherwise healthy and you attach a can like this, it should pressurize the system enough to activate the clutch. If it does not........ I have bypassed the low side switch of a few seconds to draw in freon then let it run on its own....
MrMister1227 keep adding. You will hear it start to ingage. Buy one on eBay that has sealant. The compressor will start clicking on and off. Also you can convert to 134, buy changing the stem.
You have to jump the compressor directly off the battery and bypass the low pressure sensor or the compressor will not come on.
Add a little bit of liquid by turning the can upside down.
I never saw the above comment.... I never charge liquid on low side. ive seen too many disasters on cars and central home units. My unit being one when the tech over charged it and hammered the compressor.....
Man, u sound like those male actors in the '50 or '60. Very informative tho. Mine is a 92 Accord, trying to convert it to R134. Pains!
lol., thank you for watching! I always said I was born in the wrong time period......
@@More350PowerConfirmation: you were! Hahaha!
The is one other thing, the heater may not be shutting completely off which can cause the same thing...... if you turn the ac off and just run the vent, the temp should be about the same as the outside air....
where is the sight glass usually located?
Near the liquid (high side) dryer
Wish I could get R12 in Germany. Impossible
Its getting hard to find for me. Thanks for watching!
How long should it take to suck up a 12 oz can if the system is very low?
Depends on how health the system is and how well the compressor is working. If it is short cycling ( kicking in and out but not cooling well ) It usually takes a few minutes, you dont want to rush it. You can tell when the can is empty by weight and if youve done it a few times, you can feel the can get cold as its taking the R12 in and once its empty it gets warm. Ambient temperature makes a difference. I believe it was mid eighties to ninties when I did this charge.
More350Power also thank you for the prompt response.
@Cobra281s You cant beat it!
What PSI should I fill it to? I have a '93 Del Sol
It all depends on ambient temperature, humidity, etc...... this one had a sight glass on it which made it easier. You dont want to over charge it.
Is it OK to mix different R12 brands in a ac system?
MrMister1227 as long as its r12 freon
Thanks!
MrMister1227 sure thing ! R12 is R12, though not to be confused with "freeze 12". Many different companies have canned R12 Freon. I have the original Dupoint Igloo Freon 12 ( R12 ) and some others....... as long as you dont mix it with 134a etc..... ive not had a problem.
I have a 92 camaro snd i cant find R12 to save my life and i dont want to convert to r134 😭 any idea where i could find any ?!!
Go on eBay and look up "R12 NOS" R12 new old stock, it's gonna be pricy but if you really want it it's there
As mentioned, on ebay..... though sometimes you can find people that have an old mechanic shop, etc that may have some cans laying around, though, you will be lucky if they will part with it at a reasonable price.
R 12 is not a blend at all and the sight glass shows if there is air in the system or if it is low on charge, FACT It is also there for a multitude of other reasons.
have any idea where I can buy that can top. Mine broke.
I got mine on ebay.
You can find them online, though some are not of the highest quality and dont have the tip in the end of the hose that opens the schraeder core when you go to attach the hose and fails to charge the system.
Hi, I got 1990 Chevy blazer k5 with r12, with a bad compressor, im considering converting to 134a, any advise on which parts to change, and capacity of gas and oil that i should recharge with 134a? and what is the best pressure should look like at its best setup ,,,,, if there is any youtube clip doing so on chevy truck 80s it will be great Thanks
+Mohammed Al-Hawaj If you have a bad compressor, depending on what failed..... it could have left metal debris inside the system which isnt good. With that said, the O rings should all be changed to compatible 134a o rings, a new orifice tube or expansion valve if the system is equipped with such. You will also need a new accumulator which usually, if you purchase one for that system for 134a will already have the 134a service port on it. Also while the system is open you want to flush the lines out as well as the condenser / evaporator. Some designs to the condenser and evaporator do not allow for them to be flushed and should be replaced. Ultimately, you want all the debris and old mineral oil out of the system. This is what should be done to be thorough, but isnt always what most people do.
@mbyr31 LOL, your garage isnt that big...... unless it eats things like my work shop lol
Does R12 blow colder than R134?
In my experience, with my cars over the years.... R12 not only would blow colder, it operated more efficiently in that it would cool down a hot car faster. I have had some 134a cars that, yea it blew cold, but not the ice cold I remember from R12 that would even frost over the windows on a humid night.
You think Ebay might have the AC connectors ? They have R12
Ebay does have them. I just purchased a nice, slightly used complete kit. Comes eith can adaptor, hose and pressure gauge. Picked it up for 10 bucks!!
Yes
R12 ftw got a case of Chemway sitting in the closet
The system had a leak somewhere. Better to fix them than top it off every year with expensive R-12. It will save money in the long run.
All ac automotive systems do loose some refrigerant over time. The front seal of the compressor always leaks some refrigerant/oil over the years as I was taught. I dont think the system was fully charged to begin with when it was replaced 6 or so years prior to me adding one can of R12. It never needed a charge again after I topped it off.
@@More350Power Yes, automotive systems do lose very small amounts of refrigerant over time, but a system with good seals and barrier hose can go over a decade before losing enough refrigerant to need a top-up. And we're talking a modern, critically-charged 134a system that holds a very minimal amount of refrigerant. A system in good shape should leak less than 1/4oz-yr. Normally what happens is that relatively large leak develops either at the shaft seal or at one of the fitting o-rings. A leak detector will find the leak, although you will usually have to pull the clutch off to sniff the shaft seal unless it has a large leak.
Modern lip seals help a lot with leakage, although the reason why is misunderstood. Contrary to popular belief, carbon face seals don't leak more than lip seals during compressor operation or in the weeks following usage. It is the MONTHS following usage. When not in use, the refrigerant pressure in the crankcase slowly expels the miniscule amount of oil that seals the rotating carbon face to the lapped iron or ceramic face. Eventually, most of the oil is expelled and the refrigerant is then able to leak past the seal. The way to prevent this is simple: run the compressor for 5-10 minutes once per week during the cool season. That way the seal face will remain oiled, and refrigerant won't leak. The main reason for the invention of the lip seal is because it doesn't leak nearly as much after the oil is expelled. Once the oil has been pushed out of the lip, the lip itself still seals pretty well against the polished shaft surface.
My 1988 civic has a sight glass.
A lot of the older systems had one and they were a good device to let you actually see what was happening. I miss these old systems.... While my current R134a system spits out ice cubes, it isnt anywhere near what the old R12 system was in my first car.
Plus, if you have an old system like this which ran R12 and it was converted to 134a without beinng properly prepared, it will cause the compressor to run non stop and no matter how much you charge or dont charge it wont cool..... end result is you destroy your compressor
More350Power 😂😂😂
Where can i find R12 ?
19701Claudia EBAY
Chinese r-12 is called F12 I believe same same on ebay too.
You can find it online and some older garages/shops might still have some. Depending on how well you know them, they might not charge you an arm and a leg for it. Or you can do what I did when getting rid of a vehicle with R12.... I pumped its R12 into my daily, what was left of it and lasted till my daily died.
Wrong! you never add liquid to the low side. If you do? It will slug the compressor and can do damage. Remember, liquids do not compress.
Can you come to my house and do that to my 97 Nissan hardbody please?
a 1997 would have R134a in it which is still widely available in the parts stores.
This doesn’t teach you anything. Maybe try explaining step by step, like idk, maybe where you’re connecting the hose to?!
There is only one port the low side pressure port that they hose will connect to. If connected to the high side, it will blow up in your hand. Thank you for watching!
@mbyr31 Ill take that R-12 kit off your hands if you dont need it. This system was in great condition. Had a new condenser and some other parts, YEARS ago. They all leak a little around the compressor shaft so in time they do need a little shot. I couldnt find any leaks on it. It may not have been fully charged to begin with. I would have converted it had I needed to replace major parts. I dont like 134a, i have never had a vehicle that I owned blow cold and if it did, not for long.