It's the pole sync. Basically, the controller needs to be set to sync with the magnet position of the motor. That is universally true with any brushless system. The speed control is fine and the motor is fine. Just needs the correct settings. You need the exact properties for that motor
Not the issues. His battery isn't putting out the amperage it needs and the controller and motor is requesting more than his battery can produce. I'm pretty sure his batteries are dead and he needs a full charge before.
@@Beardest_Fishing that could be true as well but I've never seen a speed control jitter from lack of amperage. Usually they shut down and/or give a series of beeps if the amp draw is too low but you could be right. I dont have much experience with this large of ESC
You might be dropping the voltage of the battery below cutoff when hitting the throttle, it did it before you went to drive it @19:30. You could be losing voltage through a bad return connection to the motor. Maybe run a dedicated neutral wire from the hub bolt to the main return lug. Also using a passive voltage monitor with a voltage over time graph would make the troubleshooting easier. I love troubleshooting this stuff, good luck brother. We deal with these kind of shenanigans regularly in electronics. Its all part of the dopamine rush you get when its optimized.
Tyler, could you please point me to any good and small passive voltage monitor I could buy? I'm building another electric dirt bike and your suggestion sounds very good for checking the voltage problems with low discharge rate batteries. Thanks.
65V is near dead for a 72V battery. The controller will also have a low voltage cutoff setting. A fully charged 72V LiFeP04 will be closer to 80V. Charge your batteries before using them, gotta take care of your lithium batteries.
Yes this is what I'm thinking as long as the hall sensors isn't bad but I just dropped a comment explaining how to test those which is pretty simple and probably the easiest thing to check, I also told him to make sure the angles is set correctly and to make sure the amount of poles in the controller settings matches the motor poles.
A good rule of thumb for matching electronics is to overspec the battery for the controller, and overspec the controller for the motor. The motor is the most resilient part, then the controller, then battery is most sensitive. Also, check the BMS on the battery and what the amp cutoff is. If you are pulling more than the BMS will allow, it will cut out. Then you'll have to adjust the controller amp settings to just below that and reduce the acceleration rate so you don't hit peak amps so fast. It is a lot of just running the vehicle up and down the road to find the settings that work.
my guess is bms is set to like 100 amps cutoff thats 7200watts if its 72v system. he keets sayying 200amps. that 12000w motor is only good for 150amps.
@@geemy9675 amp times volts = watts. If its a 72v controller/system then 72v would be the nominal voltage of the battery 80 volts fully charged 64v fully discharged. 80volts x 150amps = 12,000watts 64volts x150amps = 9600watts. I don't understand what you disagree with me on?
That means all he needs is something capable of handling 150amps continuous. Max output is irrelevant in bike motors. All that matter is max continuous output. witch in this case the motor is rated for 150amps.
Lots of good suggestions here for an electronic fix, but try the mechanical first. Put your gopro on the rear swing arm to see if the wheel is torquing/twisting/bending spokes and hitting the swing arm. It could also be the magnets inside the wheel trying to lift out of their pockets under high load, they are often only glued in, it is Chinesium after all.
based on my experience working with motor wheels, I recommend tightening the halves of the dropout between themselves with a bolt, or putting a clamp on them. considering the power, I would advise you to make a bracket from a c-channel beam with tightening screws to select the halves of the dropout. the main idea is that the grooves on the motor shaft have as large a contact area as possible with the corresponding dropout surfaces and the dropouts should be maximally fixed against expansion. Maybe if you have someone you know who owns the Delfast's TOP3 with a new dropout amplifier (it can be recognized by the 3 bolts sticking out of it), see how it is arranged on this bike. suitable as a starting point.
I really admired how clean it was for crashing, untill those stabby lil toggle switches went in 🤣 Still pretty good tho! Considering the usecase, its not like the plan is to jump it with that rear axle anyway
@@WileHeCoyote Yeah and if it does happen, it'll only once, and then RbW will certainly fix that problem. 🤣 Having metal switched jamming into the nut case will be a big motivator.
Typically, when you crash the front of a bike, the back wheel comes up, pushing the seat you are sitting on up and that tank area down. It would be very difficult to catch your nuts on those switches in a front end impact.
From brushless rc experience when you set up an esc you have to teach it where full throttle is by holding it at full throttle then turning on the esc then cutting the throttle down to off, this will tell the esc what range the throttle has. But as it has an auto tune I am not too sure, the other thing it might be is the 'c' rating of the battery packs. C rating relates to how much current the batteries can burst too, if the C rating is not high enough then the batteries wont be able to deliver the amps the esc is calling for. Are you sure the BMS boards are rated to pull the high amps the esc is needing?
Even if the bms is rated for it, his batteries may be cooked now or defective to start, and might not be capable of delivering full factory spec C ratings
I am a builder myself. Thank you for sharing all...! Congratulations for your achievements, we know why we are the people not getting lost on TV or arcade..
try changing the phase angle on the controller and as for the torque arm i used stainless steel for mine to stop the axle eating away at it good luck buddy looks great cant wait to see it finished
I have been involved in electric transport for a long time and I can say that there can be several reasons for this behavior of the motor. To a greater extent, I am inclined to believe that you have the wrong combination of connecting phases or hall sensors. You should not rely on the automatic detection of the controller, since not all controllers can correctly determine the phasing on the motors, especially on powerful motors with low winding resistance. If you understand what we are talking about, then you can first check the correct operation of the hall sensors, the circuit is simple, connect three diodes to the outputs of the halls and slowly turn the motor to watch, the diodes should light up alternately, but they should never burn all three or not burn all three, at 120 degrees they light up in a chain 1-2-1-2-1-2 shifting in phases. Next, you need to check the idle current of the motor, it should be small. And finally, download the connection table of combinations of phases and halls and check the correctness of the connection by enumerating all combinations. If you need help write how to contact you. Good luck in job.
@@donniebunkerboi9975 Yes, but that is not what he/she said to use. You do realize a 'diode' is a real thing that does not produce light, right? Don't assume someone is talking about something different than what they said. It was clearly stated 'diode'.
@@csorrows I apologize that I do not know your language thoroughly, but the translator translated what you are reading, hence such a misunderstanding. I meant stetodiodes.
@@MsDarkThinker Shame on that poor translator. It's making up words now. I'm sure what you are referring to are light emitting diodes. I have never heard of a stetodiode. I did not realize you were using a translator. They create very confusing translations when I am trying to talk to some Russian friends. I feel your pain my friend.
A LOT of builders run the sensor wires and the motor phase wires together in a bundle to have a neater appearance. Common mistake. Inductance and the magnetic fields around the phase wires will affect the signals from the 5V hall sensors. Separate them as much as possible. A couple inches is usually all it takes...the three fat motor phase wires can be bundled, and the five skinny hall wires can be bundled a couple inches away.
Weld those steel tabs to the axle shaft. Then cut the back of the aluminum mount off the end of the swing arm so the axle can slide in from the back. Finally, tap the swing arm from the side to accept bolts through the holes you have in your new axle tabs in front of the axle. The longer the tab the stronger it’ll be and a bolt in front and behind your axle would be ideal.
@@IGMWN agree a through bolt would be better. Figured he'd get there if needed. Didn't mention it because of potential clearance issues to the hub with a bolt sticking through. Probably just has to be careful.
You think welding steel tabs to a hardened axle shaft is smart? Is the axle available at home depot? Will you die when the axle snaps because you weakened the high carbon steel?
@@nunya7948 Because with upward force on the kickstand, it will not fold out of the way. It will only fold with no weight on it. The reason is because the kickstand angles a bit forward when down. So, if you landed with the kickstand down, you will have a bad time.
@@nunya7948 I said it can come down during a jump not just going forward... If you knew anything about dirt bikes you would know that's why they don't come with a kick stand
If i know his type, and i know it, the dude doesn't even care about the noise. He's just tiny PP energy pissed off that someone else (younger) gets to do all the fun things he never could / can. Weak small PP energy is always the simplest explanation for that kind of behavior.
using a breaker and switch is the best way to do it, I blew up a few blocks on my mini kelly controller which is why i got the far driver setup and a qs165.
Sounds like the controller is loosing track of the rotor position, usually they use Hall effect sensors or a sine/cosine encoder. If it doesn’t have those and it’s a sensorless then it might be loosing position causing it to do that weird jerking
If it is only on acceleration and not on fix speed I think you can use supercapacitor to help with the peak current demand when you accelerate, but your work is awsome, big fan!
I know that orange motor cable is well Insulated but if it were me I'd be putting even more protection on it just incase you catch it on anything. With that sorta current It pays to be careful!
Love your work but that switch will cause a castration during an accident. I am a biker and love motocross. I and everyone else have found out that the tank becomes a seat frequently. Be careful
I would say it is probably the controlleror sensor. Seems like it is losing what position the motor is in . Don't know if that motor and controller is sensorless or not. But that might be your problem. Bldc motors need to know the position of the rotor at all times. Check your wiring.
Electronic speed controllers also have a timing setting, if it was cogging from 0 rpm, then maybe wiring. But cogging when accelerating is more indicative of timing issue, the speed controller timing default may be set for maximum efficiency running smaller motors with less poles
Probably a voltage cut in the esc. In high rpms you pull alot of amperage so voltage may drop. Check your settings on what type of battery its programmed for
Came to say essentially the same thing. Under load the motor is going to pull alot of amps. If it's pulling to much like you said it will hit voltage cut.
I thought the wiring on the battery cutout switch looked way too small and that would make an additional voltage drop also. Adding in an instant voltage drop directly proportional with motor armature draw. Motors suck huge amperage’s under load! If that switch Is in series with the battery, that is or will be a problem.
I think it might be a good idea to put a kick stand switch linked to the brake switch so you can't move with the stand down Unlike a running engine you can't tell if it's on or not. All it takes is some nipple head to twist the throttle while it's on the stand.
Scrap that idea and build a tube swing arm something that isn’t so soft and can hold the axle in place or add bolt stops like a standard swing arm even though there used for chain adjustment but I’d assume they would help hold the axle in place better.
Hey mate, thought i should point out that you'll need to install steering stops on your chassis. they physically limit the amount of handle bar turning radius so when in a crash the triple clamps/fork assembly stops before making contact with the chassis. also i believe the squeaking sound is coming from the rear shock as the old mate before you who did that ghetto paint job didn't cover the chrome shaft, that will destroy the main dust/oil seals. pretty easy to remove the rear spring and remove the paint with some paint stripper. sick videos, refreshing seeing someone actually thinking outside of the box when it comes to a bike build.
Having the reverse switch where it is might not be the best idea... If you accidentally hit it while going forward it's not gonna end well... Stay safe
the battery is all wrong , check the low voltage cutoff on the controller settings . odds are its set to 60v or higher, as you draw from the battery voltage sag occurs , hitting the controller Lvc. You need a battery capable of 1000a discharge to run a 600a controller. This WILL SOLVE the cogging issue also.
Well, at least the grumpy old neighbor can't complain about an electric bike being too loud. Speaking of which, another electric project could be another buggy. But using an ME1616. It's a watercooler motor, 96 volts DC, 88ft/lbs of torque (without gear reduction), 6000 max rpm, up to 73hp (20kW to 55kW). It seems to scoot a crosskart pretty well.
Titanium plates and axle my dude. I can't imagine the torque that axle has to endure, if there is ~any~ slop it will confuse the controller because it'll think the wheel is moving faster or slower than it should, so it compensates.
Check your pole pairs in the settings for that QS motor should be at 16 pole pairs. Plus check if your field weakening is on if it's on turn it off and test.
Heya so awesome for having a go at this level build ,lots of us been waiting for someone to take the lead especially with this motor the torque is just unbelievable ,cheers
This is why I much prefer mid-drives to hub motors, mid-drives you only have your chain to worry about but hubs it’s endless things can go wrong, I hate having all that power at rear of bike as u get a slight issue metal starts peeling lol, I find mid-drives much more sturdy and hassle pain free, a good solid motor bike chain on a mid-drive u good to go.
A TIP... the battery box might bennefit from big holes in the side then motor cross radiator shrouds to guide air in to it for cooling, faster you go the more cooling you get. PS great build and video, I don't know if you have fixed what is causing the axle issue but it might be the position sensor out of sync, also the axle should be sleeved so the threads don't touch the alloy of the swing arm, good luck with this bike, you'll get there. .
My best guess would be interference issues between the high current motor wires and the signal wire of the hall sensor. I would try to separate those wires as much as possible and keep them short...
IM Really Really Impressed by the fact that it needs so "few" Parts to Work even my 99' LC4 needs alot more chanenigans holy cow..... im really IMpressed.
I absolutely love your episodes! Great to see a longer one now as well. All of that electronics is a bit different from gas powered stuff, but fun to see something “different “
Interesting build, thanks for sorting out all the unknown issues for the while builders. I had Send-Cut-Send water jet torque plates out of stainless, it was worth the money not to burn up drills and mill cutters.
Food for thought. How about a car (ala Ariel Atom style) with 4 of those motors, one at each wheel. That would be a very interesting build. God bless and stay well.
Did You try to disconnect completely (together with wire harness) break sensor and reverse switch from the controller? Maybe when you’re pulling more amps from battery there are some inductive voltage spikes on the break wires and controller is trying to brake?
@@ratherBweldingChris man i had the same problem using a battery that couldnt handle the amp required and shutted on and off rapidly, maybe that's your issue
I used to forward remote control helicopter a lot and have come across this issue in the past with brushless motors. Loose magnets was almost always the cause. Just figured I would throw that out there for you.
t's the pole sync. Basically, the controller needs to be set to sync with the magnet position of the motor. That is universally true with any brushless system. The speed control is fine and the motor is fine. Just needs the correct settings. You need the exact properties for that motor
Seems like what hsppening is the plus from the controler is getting ahead or behind the magnets which is trying to turn the wheel backwards until the rpms slows enough to put it back in sync. Hence the the jerking or antilock brake effect. Im an electronic hobbiest so i have not played with controllers like this but i would look at phase angle settings or as others have said shielding the hall effect wiring.
I think hall effect sensor reading may be distorted by strong alternating electromagnetic field in the main cable, maybe shielding hall sensor would help?
It's pretty easy to test hall sensors just have everything on and and plugged in then connect the negative voltage meter probe to the black negative wire on the hall plug and then test the 3 correct wires and if the hall effect sensors are good they should read voltage when you spin the wheel slowly and then not read in certain positions and usually the blue green and yellow wires are the signal out hall effect wires on the hall sensor plug, if all the hall effect sensors check out then you probably need to set the degree angle and amount of poles in the controller settings to match the specs of the motor.
Super cool much much cooler bro 👍🔋✅😎 now that it's all the pieces are put together on the dirt bike runs better sound so much good job keep up the good work 👍😎 keep tinkering with tools 👍😎
Good luck with this: Really hope you get it sorted - it does sound like a phasing issue. Just a couple of observations on other bits. My Dirt Bikes Rear axel torque is 142Nm - you really need a socket on that and get it REAL tight once aligned. Also, for maintaining the prospect of having kids in the future, you might want to replace those toggle switches with low profile push to latch switches so you don't rip your left bollock off if you go over the top!
Don't use those throw switches for range mode and forward, reverse. Those only take a brush of whatever to throw and you don't want that happening when you're not expecting it during a ride it could lead to a crash.
As Layman said it's a magnet issue. On my 72v scooter (84.3v when fully charged,21700 cells)) in advanced settings there are options to change magnet speed, Altering this will reproduce the stuttering you are getting. You need to know how many magnets are in your hub and the correct speed for them. If or when you go looking in the hub spend the time to electrical varnish it as it will prolong the life considerably. Field oriented control (FOC) might be worth looking into due to the increased efficiency,Lower temps etc. Lastly I'd drill the 2 swing arm ends (vertically) and use a bolt and nut to reinforce the alloy slot once the wheel is locked in position. Otherwise very well done mate.
It's the pole sync. Basically, the controller needs to be set to sync with the magnet position of the motor. That is universally true with any brushless system. The speed control is fine and the motor is fine. Just needs the correct settings. You need the exact properties for that motor
Yeah mostly you can runn calibration tools for that!
lets smash this like button, so he can see it...
Not the issues. His battery isn't putting out the amperage it needs and the controller and motor is requesting more than his battery can produce. I'm pretty sure his batteries are dead and he needs a full charge before.
@@Beardest_Fishing that could be true as well but I've never seen a speed control jitter from lack of amperage. Usually they shut down and/or give a series of beeps if the amp draw is too low but you could be right. I dont have much experience with this large of ESC
@@Beardest_Fishing i was looking at the guage on those wires. an xmaxx uses like twice the guage at least. i think ur right.
You might be dropping the voltage of the battery below cutoff when hitting the throttle, it did it before you went to drive it @19:30. You could be losing voltage through a bad return connection to the motor. Maybe run a dedicated neutral wire from the hub bolt to the main return lug. Also using a passive voltage monitor with a voltage over time graph would make the troubleshooting easier. I love troubleshooting this stuff, good luck brother. We deal with these kind of shenanigans regularly in electronics. Its all part of the dopamine rush you get when its optimized.
It wouldn't be so violent if that was a cutout though
wtf would running a wire from the axle to the B- do? lol thats terrible advice
Tyler, could you please point me to any good and small passive voltage monitor I could buy? I'm building another electric dirt bike and your suggestion sounds very good for checking the voltage problems with low discharge rate batteries. Thanks.
There is no "neutral" on a 3-wire brushless motor.
65V is near dead for a 72V battery. The controller will also have a low voltage cutoff setting. A fully charged 72V LiFeP04 will be closer to 80V. Charge your batteries before using them, gotta take care of your lithium batteries.
yeah dude, ur battery might actually be toast because you let it discharge too much
Right. The battery % indicator on the display has to be calibrated too, I’m sure, if he is going off of that.
72v battery fully charge is 84v
@@rickrandom716 not if lifepo
@@riccardo1796 87.6v if lifepo
That reverse switch looks pretty dangerous if you accidentally flip it while riding.
Indeed! Shirt snag's that thing (or worse yet your nut-sack) and BAM you are in a low earth orbit. DELETE IT or move to covered safe location.
I would go with a momentary switch that you have to hold down for reverse.
exactly what i was thinking
@@garrettstevens2232I've never seen a dirt bike need reverse. I'd just remove the switch.
The controller won't let you go in reverse unless you are stopped. I have the same controller.
I had that same problem with a mid drive motor. I canged the pole angles in the motorcontroller software and it started working.
Make sense
Like a bafang system bbso2b or bbshd? How what setting?
Yes this is what I'm thinking as long as the hall sensors isn't bad but I just dropped a comment explaining how to test those which is pretty simple and probably the easiest thing to check, I also told him to make sure the angles is set correctly and to make sure the amount of poles in the controller settings matches the motor poles.
there should be a learn wire you connect to get it to self recognize the poles.
@@phille8176 he change where the motor see where engine is so it couldnt see before chnage setting it can see now and happy
You need to put a protective cover on the reverse switch before loose clothing or anything flips it while your moving.
It won't activate unless the motor is stopped, he's good
@@Todd_G_FPV Snagging while TRYING to let go of the bike would be a bummer. Handlebar switches all the way.
A good rule of thumb for matching electronics is to overspec the battery for the controller, and overspec the controller for the motor. The motor is the most resilient part, then the controller, then battery is most sensitive. Also, check the BMS on the battery and what the amp cutoff is. If you are pulling more than the BMS will allow, it will cut out. Then you'll have to adjust the controller amp settings to just below that and reduce the acceleration rate so you don't hit peak amps so fast. It is a lot of just running the vehicle up and down the road to find the settings that work.
Yeah, charge the battery and check the settings :)
my guess is bms is set to like 100 amps cutoff thats 7200watts if its 72v system. he keets sayying 200amps. that 12000w motor is only good for 150amps.
@@SeptemberTwentyThird it would need more than 150A to run at 72V/12kW. 200A should be 14kW or less, sounds ok for a 12kW nominal motor
@@geemy9675 amp times volts = watts. If its a 72v controller/system then 72v would be the nominal voltage of the battery 80 volts fully charged 64v fully discharged. 80volts x 150amps = 12,000watts 64volts x150amps = 9600watts. I don't understand what you disagree with me on?
That means all he needs is something capable of handling 150amps continuous. Max output is irrelevant in bike motors. All that matter is max continuous output. witch in this case the motor is rated for 150amps.
You did a great job considering this is your first outing on serious kits. You’ll get it and learn along the way.
The front brake hose on usd forks goes on the inside of the fork to protect it from damage - hope ya get it 'running' well, looks madness.
At least the neighbors are happy with this project :)
Lots of good suggestions here for an electronic fix, but try the mechanical first. Put your gopro on the rear swing arm to see if the wheel is torquing/twisting/bending spokes and hitting the swing arm. It could also be the magnets inside the wheel trying to lift out of their pockets under high load, they are often only glued in, it is Chinesium after all.
GRIN TECHNOLOGIES is king at these types of problems
based on my experience working with motor wheels, I recommend tightening the halves of the dropout between themselves with a bolt, or putting a clamp on them. considering the power, I would advise you to make a bracket from a c-channel beam with tightening screws to select the halves of the dropout. the main idea is that the grooves on the motor shaft have as large a contact area as possible with the corresponding dropout surfaces and the dropouts should be maximally fixed against expansion.
Maybe if you have someone you know who owns the Delfast's TOP3 with a new dropout amplifier (it can be recognized by the 3 bolts sticking out of it), see how it is arranged on this bike. suitable as a starting point.
3:38 listen when he flicks the switch, something in the background turned off at the same time. That was good timing.
18:18 If you crash or brake hard and get shoved up towards handlebars, those switched could damage the family jewels.. 😬 Something to think about! 👍
I really admired how clean it was for crashing, untill those stabby lil toggle switches went in 🤣
Still pretty good tho! Considering the usecase, its not like the plan is to jump it with that rear axle anyway
@@WileHeCoyote Yeah and if it does happen, it'll only once, and then RbW will certainly fix that problem. 🤣 Having metal switched jamming into the nut case will be a big motivator.
You don't think riding a 400amp AC motor will damage the jewels?
He should put fighter jet style switch covers over them
Typically, when you crash the front of a bike, the back wheel comes up, pushing the seat you are sitting on up and that tank area down. It would be very difficult to catch your nuts on those switches in a front end impact.
You are a manufacturing genius!
From brushless rc experience when you set up an esc you have to teach it where full throttle is by holding it at full throttle then turning on the esc then cutting the throttle down to off, this will tell the esc what range the throttle has.
But as it has an auto tune I am not too sure, the other thing it might be is the 'c' rating of the battery packs.
C rating relates to how much current the batteries can burst too, if the C rating is not high enough then the batteries wont be able to deliver the amps the esc is calling for.
Are you sure the BMS boards are rated to pull the high amps the esc is needing?
Even if the bms is rated for it, his batteries may be cooked now or defective to start, and might not be capable of delivering full factory spec C ratings
Get a multimeter. Set it up for ohms. Disconnect all power sources. Check out the resistance of the throttle.
It only does it under mid to heavy acceleration. It does not do it at full speed under light acceleration. It's not the throttle.
Make sure your phase current wires are not loose in any way. Keep up the good work! I'm sure you will get this going soon!
I am a builder myself. Thank you for sharing all...!
Congratulations for your achievements, we know why we are the people not getting lost on TV or arcade..
try changing the phase angle on the controller and as for the torque arm i used stainless steel for mine to stop the axle eating away at it good luck buddy looks great cant wait to see it finished
I just want to say, I love your EV building content.
The front brake hose is supposed to be routed on the INSIDE of the fork leg, not on the outside.
cant wait to run 5kw w the far dirver setup on my little razor mx650 build. Keep it up brother this thing is insane!!
when this is all done, you should go and paint match everything to the original colors of the bike, i think it would look so good
do you mean aluminum and green or the ghetto paint job?
I have been involved in electric transport for a long time and I can say that there can be several reasons for this behavior of the motor. To a greater extent, I am inclined to believe that you have the wrong combination of connecting phases or hall sensors. You should not rely on the automatic detection of the controller, since not all controllers can correctly determine the phasing on the motors, especially on powerful motors with low winding resistance. If you understand what we are talking about, then you can first check the correct operation of the hall sensors, the circuit is simple, connect three diodes to the outputs of the halls and slowly turn the motor to watch, the diodes should light up alternately, but they should never burn all three or not burn all three, at 120 degrees they light up in a chain 1-2-1-2-1-2 shifting in phases. Next, you need to check the idle current of the motor, it should be small. And finally, download the connection table of combinations of phases and halls and check the correctness of the connection by enumerating all combinations. If you need help write how to contact you. Good luck in job.
The only problem with your testing method is that if diodes light up, they are about to catch fire.
@@csorrows ever heard of light emitting diode?
@@donniebunkerboi9975 Yes, but that is not what he/she said to use. You do realize a 'diode' is a real thing that does not produce light, right? Don't assume someone is talking about something different than what they said. It was clearly stated 'diode'.
@@csorrows I apologize that I do not know your language thoroughly, but the translator translated what you are reading, hence such a misunderstanding. I meant stetodiodes.
@@MsDarkThinker Shame on that poor translator. It's making up words now. I'm sure what you are referring to are light emitting diodes. I have never heard of a stetodiode. I did not realize you were using a translator. They create very confusing translations when I am trying to talk to some Russian friends. I feel your pain my friend.
A LOT of builders run the sensor wires and the motor phase wires together in a bundle to have a neater appearance. Common mistake. Inductance and the magnetic fields around the phase wires will affect the signals from the 5V hall sensors. Separate them as much as possible. A couple inches is usually all it takes...the three fat motor phase wires can be bundled, and the five skinny hall wires can be bundled a couple inches away.
Bypass the shunt
This is a good suggestion.
Your patience is very admirable sir
Weld those steel tabs to the axle shaft. Then cut the back of the aluminum mount off the end of the swing arm so the axle can slide in from the back. Finally, tap the swing arm from the side to accept bolts through the holes you have in your new axle tabs in front of the axle. The longer the tab the stronger it’ll be and a bolt in front and behind your axle would be ideal.
I agree with what this guy says. You can tap a thread to make it essentially like how the triple clamps work? Use grub screws
That is exactly what I was thinking, except instead of tapping the swingarm just using a through bolt and nut.
@@IGMWN agree a through bolt would be better. Figured he'd get there if needed. Didn't mention it because of potential clearance issues to the hub with a bolt sticking through. Probably just has to be careful.
You think welding steel tabs to a hardened axle shaft is smart? Is the axle available at home depot? Will you die when the axle snaps because you weakened the high carbon steel?
Front brake routing goes around the inside of the fork. We didn't wait decades for Hondas patent to run out to go around the outside.
Make sure to put a really stiff spring on kickstand so it doesn't come down during a jump... Stay safe
Explain how a dropped kickstand could have a negative effect during the forward momentum of riding…
@@nunya7948 Because with upward force on the kickstand, it will not fold out of the way. It will only fold with no weight on it. The reason is because the kickstand angles a bit forward when down. So, if you landed with the kickstand down, you will have a bad time.
@@nunya7948 I said it can come down during a jump not just going forward... If you knew anything about dirt bikes you would know that's why they don't come with a kick stand
do not give up, you will succeed, the bike turned out Greetings from Russia
I bet your neighbors partially approve of your electric projects. The sound is 180 degrees off what a 2-stroke belts out.
🤭😏I heard all is fine and dandy and they are constantly going out to lunch at wingstop
That neighbor sounds like the type of person who would complain that his new golden plates are too shiny...
I was thinking that too. That guy probably moved away a week before this build 🤭
If i know his type, and i know it, the dude doesn't even care about the noise. He's just tiny PP energy pissed off that someone else (younger) gets to do all the fun things he never could / can. Weak small PP energy is always the simplest explanation for that kind of behavior.
See you should never get your neighbours used to not hearing loud engines. After a while they'll go nuts if you pull an old toy out
using a breaker and switch is the best way to do it, I blew up a few blocks on my mini kelly controller which is why i got the far driver setup and a qs165.
Sounds like the controller is loosing track of the rotor position, usually they use Hall effect sensors or a sine/cosine encoder. If it doesn’t have those and it’s a sensorless then it might be loosing position causing it to do that weird jerking
Thats what i was thinking to
Sensors are only used at lower RPMs. Above that, it uses back EMF.
If it is only on acceleration and not on fix speed I think you can use supercapacitor to help with the peak current demand when you accelerate, but your work is awsome, big fan!
I know that orange motor cable is well Insulated but if it were me I'd be putting even more protection on it just incase you catch it on anything. With that sorta current It pays to be careful!
The motor is cogging need to add some capacitors inline with the battery to the controller which will help during high voltage dump
Love your work but that switch will cause a castration during an accident. I am a biker and love motocross. I and everyone else have found out that the tank becomes a seat frequently. Be careful
..and he is far from a dirtbiker even.
Cant wait for that video.
what i like most about this whole build is that its actually full sized. all the E bikes are so small its like riding pitbikes
I would say it is probably the controlleror sensor. Seems like it is losing what position the motor is in . Don't know if that motor and controller is sensorless or not. But that might be your problem. Bldc motors need to know the position of the rotor at all times. Check your wiring.
Electronic speed controllers also have a timing setting, if it was cogging from 0 rpm, then maybe wiring.
But cogging when accelerating is more indicative of timing issue, the speed controller timing default may be set for maximum efficiency running smaller motors with less poles
@@Not_Sure-i6o yep
Pop a pinch bolt in the back of the dropout too chris, stop the alu ever spreading, do it on all my build,,, love the work
Probably a voltage cut in the esc. In high rpms you pull alot of amperage so voltage may drop. Check your settings on what type of battery its programmed for
Came to say essentially the same thing. Under load the motor is going to pull alot of amps. If it's pulling to much like you said it will hit voltage cut.
I thought the wiring on the battery cutout switch looked way too small and that would make an additional voltage drop also. Adding in an instant voltage drop directly proportional with motor armature draw. Motors suck huge amperage’s under load! If that switch Is in series with the battery, that is or will be a problem.
Your quality non vulgar content is supreme amigo!
I think it might be a good idea to put a kick stand switch linked to the brake switch so you can't move with the stand down
Unlike a running engine you can't tell if it's on or not. All it takes is some nipple head to twist the throttle while it's on the stand.
He will also want a larger pad on the bottom of the stand, that one will sink into anything softer than concrete... lol.
@@craig2963 just carry a coaster. No one wants a big ugly stand foot 😂
Put the front brake line on the other side of the fork so you don't rip it off if you have a get off, super badass keep up the good work!!!
Scrap that idea and build a tube swing arm something that isn’t so soft and can hold the axle in place or add bolt stops like a standard swing arm even though there used for chain adjustment but I’d assume they would help hold the axle in place better.
Hey mate, thought i should point out that you'll need to install steering stops on your chassis. they physically limit the amount of handle bar turning radius so when in a crash the triple clamps/fork assembly stops before making contact with the chassis. also i believe the squeaking sound is coming from the rear shock as the old mate before you who did that ghetto paint job didn't cover the chrome shaft, that will destroy the main dust/oil seals. pretty easy to remove the rear spring and remove the paint with some paint stripper. sick videos, refreshing seeing someone actually thinking outside of the box when it comes to a bike build.
Having the reverse switch where it is might not be the best idea... If you accidentally hit it while going forward it's not gonna end well... Stay safe
At least you’re neighbors will be happy with no noise 😂
the battery is all wrong , check the low voltage cutoff on the controller settings . odds are its set to 60v or higher, as you draw from the battery voltage sag occurs , hitting the controller Lvc. You need a battery capable of 1000a discharge to run a 600a controller. This WILL SOLVE the cogging issue also.
as an aside the BMS may be cutting out , to protect the battery.. again , the battery is all wrong .
@@airgunningyup you think it has BMS? There are no individual wires per cell as BMS typically has.
@@tujuprojects it's under the blue shrink wrap of the battery, only positive and negative cables are exposed
@@tujuprojects it should , it doesnt have an external loom for balancing
@@WileHeCoyote The BMS? It would be visible if so.
Well, at least the grumpy old neighbor can't complain about an electric bike being too loud.
Speaking of which, another electric project could be another buggy. But using an ME1616. It's a watercooler motor, 96 volts DC, 88ft/lbs of torque (without gear reduction), 6000 max rpm, up to 73hp (20kW to 55kW). It seems to scoot a crosskart pretty well.
Have you tried the regenerative breaking ?
Maybe disabling that will fix the issue.
regen also chews up dropouts real quick
If it's too strong it can spin the axle fairly easily, definitely a concern now that the axle has already begun to round out
The back tire is wobbly just letting you know 👍
Titanium plates and axle my dude. I can't imagine the torque that axle has to endure, if there is ~any~ slop it will confuse the controller because it'll think the wheel is moving faster or slower than it should, so it compensates.
Very cool job !! Congrats, brother ! Watching from Brazil here.
Is it just me or did anyone else find his constant reving it and the back tyre hitting the floor grip their shit....?
constant reving on discharged batteries
Check your pole pairs in the settings for that QS motor should be at 16 pole pairs.
Plus check if your field weakening is on if it's on turn it off and test.
A 72 volt battery should never go below 72volts
Dude I'm gutted for you, I feel ur pain, I really wana see that bike fly, don't give up
you can always drill a few holes by the spring side of the frame and have a fan that's always pushing air out of the case\frame
Heya so awesome for having a go at this level build ,lots of us been waiting for someone to take the lead especially with this motor the torque is just unbelievable ,cheers
this is the best electric bike ive seen holy crap
This is why I much prefer mid-drives to hub motors, mid-drives you only have your chain to worry about but hubs it’s endless things can go wrong, I hate having all that power at rear of bike as u get a slight issue metal starts peeling lol, I find mid-drives much more sturdy and hassle pain free, a good solid motor bike chain on a mid-drive u good to go.
My favorite journeyman. I’m in WNC too
Братан, не сдавайся, Воронеж смотрит за тобой.
A TIP... the battery box might bennefit from big holes in the side then motor cross radiator shrouds to guide air in to it for cooling, faster you go the more cooling you get.
PS great build and video, I don't know if you have fixed what is causing the axle issue but it might be the position sensor out of sync, also the axle should be sleeved so the threads don't touch the alloy of the swing arm, good luck with this bike, you'll get there. .
My best guess would be interference issues between the high current motor wires and the signal wire of the hall sensor.
I would try to separate those wires as much as possible and keep them short...
You are a brave man testing wiring with that current capacity on a conductive workbench! That can be a quick way to make an impromptu arc welder...
you are definitely a "mad scientist"! Great work, as usual!
This is a real high power! I opened this video and was very frightened by the sound)
Drill and tap the rear of the swing arm to clamp down on the axle to help with the axle twisting.
Could just be a throttle tuning issue but testing with an almost flat battery is no good great project as always 👍
IM Really Really Impressed by the fact that it needs so "few" Parts to Work even my 99' LC4 needs alot more chanenigans holy cow..... im really IMpressed.
I absolutely love your episodes! Great to see a longer one now as well. All of that electronics is a bit different from gas powered stuff, but fun to see something “different “
That wheel spinning sounds like a spaceship
Interesting build, thanks for sorting out all the unknown issues for the while builders. I had Send-Cut-Send water jet torque plates out of stainless, it was worth the money not to burn up drills and mill cutters.
Food for thought. How about a car (ala Ariel Atom style) with 4 of those motors, one at each wheel. That would be a very interesting build. God bless and stay well.
Been subbed since you had under 20k subscribers. Love the consistency and more and more complex projects. Keep it real brotha
Got that right , just like a RC car , if your battery is low your low voltage cutoff kicks in and kicks you out , ,enough said
How did you make your vice grip/ adjustable spanner? Really want one
Did You try to disconnect completely (together with wire harness) break sensor and reverse switch from the controller? Maybe when you’re pulling more amps from battery there are some inductive voltage spikes on the break wires and controller is trying to brake?
Will we ever get a Part 8 on this? This is too cool, you can't leave us hanging now!
This Sunday!
@@ratherBweldingChris man i had the same problem using a battery that couldnt handle the amp required and shutted on and off rapidly, maybe that's your issue
I used to forward remote control helicopter a lot and have come across this issue in the past with brushless motors. Loose magnets was almost always the cause. Just figured I would throw that out there for you.
t's the pole sync. Basically, the controller needs to be set to sync with the magnet position of the motor. That is universally true with any brushless system. The speed control is fine and the motor is fine. Just needs the correct settings. You need the exact properties for that motor
Yep I agree with the battery is too small. I always go more volts than I need. As long as your electronics can handle it I would go 96v on this build.
Disconnect/disable the reverse drive function. Perhaps it’s causing some interference??
Seems like what hsppening is the plus from the controler is getting ahead or behind the magnets which is trying to turn the wheel backwards until the rpms slows enough to put it back in sync. Hence the the jerking or antilock brake effect. Im an electronic hobbiest so i have not played with controllers like this but i would look at phase angle settings or as others have said shielding the hall effect wiring.
Properly hook your power supply/throttle to an oscilloscope ? Check the sine wave...
...sine wave not done wave...typo
I think hall effect sensor reading may be distorted by strong alternating electromagnetic field in the main cable, maybe shielding hall sensor would help?
It's pretty easy to test hall sensors just have everything on and and plugged in then connect the negative voltage meter probe to the black negative wire on the hall plug and then test the 3 correct wires and if the hall effect sensors are good they should read voltage when you spin the wheel slowly and then not read in certain positions and usually the blue green and yellow wires are the signal out hall effect wires on the hall sensor plug, if all the hall effect sensors check out then you probably need to set the degree angle and amount of poles in the controller settings to match the specs of the motor.
Super cool much much cooler bro 👍🔋✅😎 now that it's all the pieces are put together on the dirt bike runs better sound so much good job keep up the good work 👍😎 keep tinkering with tools 👍😎
Good luck with this: Really hope you get it sorted - it does sound like a phasing issue. Just a couple of observations on other bits. My Dirt Bikes Rear axel torque is 142Nm - you really need a socket on that and get it REAL tight once aligned. Also, for maintaining the prospect of having kids in the future, you might want to replace those toggle switches with low profile push to latch switches so you don't rip your left bollock off if you go over the top!
Hardened steel for the torque bracket and stick a bolt through the fork of drop in ends to keep them from opening under twist torque
you built a machine! i built a 60v ebike . amazing how much they are the same, yours just weighs more
You have a battery close by.... use a fan blowing out, maybe two. Blowing out will keep the dust out.
Use the small controller
See if that fix your problem 😉👍🏻
Don't use those throw switches for range mode and forward, reverse. Those only take a brush of whatever to throw and you don't want that happening when you're not expecting it during a ride it could lead to a crash.
Reading some of the comments the light bulb went off " pole sync " and charge that thing mate . I can't wait to see what this turns out to be .
As Layman said it's a magnet issue. On my 72v scooter (84.3v when fully charged,21700 cells)) in advanced settings there are options to change magnet speed, Altering this will reproduce the stuttering you are getting. You need to know how many magnets are in your hub and the correct speed for them. If or when you go looking in the hub spend the time to electrical varnish it as it will prolong the life considerably.
Field oriented control (FOC) might be worth looking into due to the increased efficiency,Lower temps etc. Lastly I'd drill the 2 swing arm ends (vertically) and use a bolt and nut to reinforce the alloy slot once the wheel is locked in position. Otherwise very well done mate.