Fun fact, aiming handguns is actually a bit easier and more ergonomic with a very slight inward cant. Just like you described for your preferred tweaks to the mouse. It's just naturally how your arm likes to position when pointing.
Unfortunately it only exacerbates the issue he had with his range of motion to the right with his wrist and would further force him into more of an arm aiming style. It would be one hell of a low sens arm aiming mouse with that tweak though.
@@vikeskie Kinda. If your tactic is to convince your opponent that you're so unhinged that you dont even care what you hit. If your tactic is to shoot something specific, probably not great.
@Emma_madison did you even read the op comment at all? I was just pointing out that if you think holding a mouse like a handgun is fun, you should try shooters in VR
A part of the reason you felt so much slower aiming rightwards is because you can now naturally engage your entire bicep and chest to pull inward when you move left without even realizing it. It's a much more natural motion of the arm, but the consequence is making it obvious just how non-linear natural motion really is.
Imagine if it had tilt sensors and the laser was good enough to still track when slightly off base and when you tilt it, you lean. That would be so cool and fun to use
Great idea - I think you could make it work with a base plate that doesn’t tilt, and a grip that has a strong pivot built into the base plate, to allow the grip itself to tilt
Gospel of Jesus Christ. John 3:16 For God So loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life. Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for all the sin of the World, and now we can be Forgiven of all of our sins and be washed clean by the Blood of Jesus Christ for our iniquities trespasses... now all you need to do is Repent of all of ur sins (Repent means Change ur Mind turning away from sinful things and being truly sorry with all ur heart, and if you Repent and still go back to sinful things nothing will happend but if you are truly serious Lord will change ur life forever) (example of repenting Father God I ask in Jesus Name please forgive me of all my Sins I acknowledge that im a sinful man/woman I am truly sorry and trust in Jesus that he lived suffered and died on the cross for me and my sins so I can be Forgiven was barried and that you rised him on the 3th day please wash me clean with the blood of Christ make in me a new heart that can love and forgive Lord change my desires change me Lord Jesus come into my life change everything about me make me a new creation fill me with ur HolySpirit...)is what sin is Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ. and the only way to heaven is Trough Jesus Christ there is no other way! John 14:6 I Am The Way The Truth And The Life No Man cometh to the Father Except Trough Me. and you are saved by Grace Trough Faith not by works, we cannot save urselfs from sin we don't get to go to heaven because we don't get to go to heaven because we are a Good People we are not!, we cannot earn ur salvation it is given to us as a Free Gift all we need to do is receive it! Romans 3:23 For All have sinned and Felt Short of the Glory of God. There is none Good but God!, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 KJV.
I have one. The M1 has some travel time and it's a really heavy unit compared to most mice. Also, mine rocks a bit on my desk. I am not sure if that is a design flaw present in all units. It makes for a cool collector's item for display, but I wouldn't use it as a daily driver. The actual grip is incredibly comfortable and it seems like something that MonsterGecko thought was going to make them rich. Someone put some serious R&D into it. It even has an anime mascot on the booklet and box art. The buttons used are microswitches.
This idea needs to be iterated on! My wrists has been struggeling for some years and i can't play the amount that i used to do. But this angle will be so much healthier for your wrists since moving them in this direction is much more natural.
Buy a massive mousepad and crank the sensitivity way way down and learn how to aim using primarily your arm. Most people give up before they really get the hang of it because it's like starting from scratch with your aim but the longevity and superior control once you master it is totally worth it. Your wrist will thank you and you will be able to play all day every day if you want to.
@@intranube I use a razer deathadder v2 mini, I was just offering a solution to his wrist problem which is very common. The best solution is to switch to a more sustainable aiming style. High sensitivity wrist aiming isn't ideal because it's harder to be consistent and it's very bad for your wrist but people fall in love with easy flicks because it's flashy. I've never tried a vertical mouse but it does seem interesting, I just wouldn't bother buying one that is unrefined and slightly gimmicky like this one. I have no clue if one exists that would fit my criteria for me to bother giving it a 100 hour test run.
this is potentially a multi million dollar idea if properly executed and mass produced at a good price. Remake the case with a different material and a slightly different shape, improve the triggers, ptfe feet, add additional buttons for the thumb, lower weight (you could even add some silly capabillity for it to act as a controller for vr, but thats another topic.
It looks like it could use a bit more iterations, but I'd be interested in picking one of these up with a few adjustments. Outside of FPS's I feel like this could be a good ergonomic solution as well, but in that case I'd want some more buttons. Maybe take some of the aspects of Hotas sticks to give it more options. The grips of those are generally more comfortable as well.
@@SimonWoodburyForget absolutely not. The biggest problem with gyro - inherent human body instability. Notice how when using a mouse the hand is lying on the table which acts as a support. Gyro sucks because you can't perform certain movements in a controlled manner because there's nothing to support your movement. Most peopple either use it for main rotation and then use fingers for precision or the other way around - fingers for quick movements and gyro for precision. Steam Deck is even more of a meme because it's a heavy brick that you are suggesting should be rotated with your hands. Awful. At least look at VR controls.
If you can find one at a reasonable price, try to get your hands on a FPSGUN FG-1000. I don't have one, but I might get one in the future. There are very few gun mice out there. Going by the reviews made by Boojakasha, there are: Ragnok (1st and 2nd versions), Nextick, Ghost Hunter LM60, M60A3 Combat Gun Mouse, FPSGUN FG-1000, and Pistolmouse FPS by MonsterGecko. I have owned and then returned the unit in this video, the Ragnok "2". I have a MonsterGecko Pistolmouse FPS on display along with the box in my room. The Ghost Hunter LM60 is only feasibly obtainable in China and it is unlikely you would be able to get it through customs/obtain one at all if you live in the west. Not without some serious connections for obtaining collectors items. Your best bet is the unit I mentioned above. From everything I've heard, it seems like the best gun mouse from a functional standpoint, ignoring the Ghost Hunter. Also, if you want a good laugh, look up the original trailer for the FPSGUN FG-1000.
The base idea is great, still needs a lot of tuning but the main idea is really cool for a vertical mouse design (as someone who started using a vertical mouse a year or two ago I'd be interested in a refined version of this)
Where did you learn about this mouse, and do you have tips for where to look for these kind of radical mice projects/releases? All I see is the new weight reduction or outer shell holes, on shapes that have been done to death. Im convinced we have a lot of room for improvement when it comes to how the shape of a mouse should be, for optimal potential in aiming.
The first I heard about it was when they contacted me. The mousereview reddit is a good place to stay up to date. I too would like to be more aware of radical projects like this one.
Gospel of Jesus Christ. John 3:16 For God So loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life. Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for all the sin of the World, and now we can be Forgiven of all of our sins and be washed clean by the Blood of Jesus Christ for our iniquities trespasses... now all you need to do is Repent of all of ur sins (Repent means Change ur Mind turning away from sinful things and being truly sorry with all ur heart, and if you Repent and still go back to sinful things nothing will happend but if you are truly serious Lord will change ur life forever) (example of repenting Father God I ask in Jesus Name please forgive me of all my Sins I acknowledge that im a sinful man/woman I am truly sorry and trust in Jesus that he lived suffered and died on the cross for me and my sins so I can be Forgiven was barried and that you rised him on the 3th day please wash me clean with the blood of Christ make in me a new heart that can love and forgive Lord change my desires change me Lord Jesus come into my life change everything about me make me a new creation fill me with ur HolySpirit...)is what sin is Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ. and the only way to heaven is Trough Jesus Christ there is no other way! John 14:6 I Am The Way The Truth And The Life No Man cometh to the Father Except Trough Me. and you are saved by Grace Trough Faith not by works, we cannot save urselfs from sin we don't get to go to heaven because we don't get to go to heaven because we are a Good People we are not!, we cannot earn ur salvation it is given to us as a Free Gift all we need to do is receive it! Romans 3:23 For All have sinned and Felt Short of the Glory of God. There is none Good but God!, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 KJV.
I like the concept but I really expect the vertical movement to feel really weird. I wist the mouse could tilt up and down like a joystick so you can slide on the X-axis and tilt on the Y-axis.
It would be cool if the base was completely stationary, but was much wider and would glide along the base like a ball bearing rather than a base with a denser gliding on the table. It could be pretty bulky, but w some a table accommodations I think it would be dope
Gospel of Jesus Christ. John 3:16 For God So loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life. Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for all the sin of the World, and now we can be Forgiven of all of our sins and be washed clean by the Blood of Jesus Christ for our iniquities trespasses... now all you need to do is Repent of all of ur sins (Repent means Change ur Mind turning away from sinful things and being truly sorry with all ur heart, and if you Repent and still go back to sinful things nothing will happend but if you are truly serious Lord will change ur life forever) (example of repenting Father God I ask in Jesus Name please forgive me of all my Sins I acknowledge that im a sinful man/woman I am truly sorry and trust in Jesus that he lived suffered and died on the cross for me and my sins so I can be Forgiven was barried and that you rised him on the 3th day please wash me clean with the blood of Christ make in me a new heart that can love and forgive Lord change my desires change me Lord Jesus come into my life change everything about me make me a new creation fill me with ur HolySpirit...)is what sin is Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ. and the only way to heaven is Trough Jesus Christ there is no other way! John 14:6 I Am The Way The Truth And The Life No Man cometh to the Father Except Trough Me. and you are saved by Grace Trough Faith not by works, we cannot save urselfs from sin we don't get to go to heaven because we don't get to go to heaven because we are a Good People we are not!, we cannot earn ur salvation it is given to us as a Free Gift all we need to do is receive it! Romans 3:23 For All have sinned and Felt Short of the Glory of God. There is none Good but God!, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 KJV.
I was thinking the same. A pivot point that lets you tilt on the y-axis with a spring or roller rail mechanism to keep the optic planted to the surface as you tilt.
I haven't tried a vertical mouse to that extreme before, but I have used ergo vertical mice (which have been around for a while) and those can drastically improve your aim as well, while being more comfortable at the same time. I'm not a competitive gamer, nor do I play competitive games anymore, but I'm surprised vertical mice haven't caught on in the hardcore scene.
@@Brunnen_Geeheavier mice tend to be good if your sens is higher and your mouse surface provides little friction, as that makes the mouse more controllable at those higher sensitivities, and with less movement as well as less friction the weight of the mouse is not as relevant of a factor. This vertical mouse may be an exception - it seems to benefit from a lower sens specifically because of the larger range of motion possible.
its also probably not really caught in the hardcore scene because few places actually make a gaming mouse thats up to other gaming mice standards like this. ergo mice are just that ergo, not really made for competitive play. and this thing that looks like a toy, well doesnt look like they stuffed all their eggs into the basket, it looks cheaply made. even the base that he took off didnt seem to clip on at all and just slid off quite easily. itd need a lot of publicity to even make anyone think of trying to make a decent one.
They'll never catch on until they start releasing vertical mice with high DPI. Nearly all vertical mice are made from the exact same parts and they all have low DPI which makes them feel like they're moving on a grid. As much as I wanted to try using mine for gaming it was impossible because of that.
I used a vertical mouse with a very wide base and positive buttons, and it actually took very little adjustment. I use wide sweeps instead of pivoting my wrist, so that could be part of it. I bought it alongside a Razer just as a fun experiment, but it actually ended up being my main mouse for about six months until one day it randomly died on me, but until then it was a good mouse
Ive been using a cheap vertical mouse for gaming too; In the early days you could really feel the difference, but you get used to it over time, I wonder how gamers already using a vertical mouse would fare with a pistol grip mouse.
I didn't even know that was a thing! :O * looks it up * I would imagine someone with a 3D printer might be able to make some sort of pistol grip contraption adapter to work like this one does.
I used to use a similar mouse called the Zalman FG-1000 FPS Gun, similar in the way of being a vertical mouse shaped like a pistol grip, but the main difference is that the Zalman is much bigger, and wired. The Zalman actually solves two problems you found with the Ragnok, one is the sensor placement. While the Ragnok is right underneath your hand, and looks even closer to your wrist than a regular mouse, the Zalman's sensor is *much* further forward, way more than a typical mouse, this being one of the original selling points. Another gripe you mentioned was that the Ragnok is completely vertical, while the Zalman is sloped on the far side, letting your hand rest at roughly an 80 degree angle, as well as having a better place to rest your palm, rather than the perfect 90 demanded by the Ragnok. I went though two of them before they were discontinued, and second hand ones on Ebay hit triple digits, so I ended up reverting back to a regular mouse. I miss the Zalman, and I wish someone would make a mouse in a similar form factor to it, but this isnt it
I dont think it should have a problem with Win 10, I last used it on I think Win 7, though. The latest driver was released in 2013, so it wont be the most optimized mouse on the market. Also, as they're not manufactured, finding them second hand, or even in packaging still, is gonna cost at least $100. Its DPI customization is very restrictive, if you typically use a DPI outside of its range, its gonna take a little while. It has a 'Low, Med, High' setting, with a hotkey near your ring finger to cycle though the modes. Low can only be set to 400 or 600, Medium can only be set to 800, 1000, or 1200, and High can only be set to 1400, 1600, or 2000 @@southpark159753
@@notestarlord7775 i still use it NOW, i was able to buy other units some years ago, i have 3 of them but some buttons keeps broking and need to be fixed. i already tear it down some times. it is THE ONLY mouse i love. my biggest regret is i did not buy 20 of them to use for lifetime. on windows 10 still works perfectly. handle grip and sensor being further forward is THE KEY for this perfect mouse. here in italy (but also in europe) seems impossible to find them, even at 100eu. i want to buy some..do u have links?
With a little moding this would be crazy I'm getting one now. You can try a 3D printed replacement with that angle you talked about. That would be a sick video also
He wouldn't like the angle, he would lose even more of the range of motion to the right with his wrist that he was already complaining about. At that point you would almost exclusively have to arm aim and it would become exclusively a low sensitivity aiming mouse. Any position that isn't 100% vertical or horizontal for your wrist will take away from your range of motion to the outside.
5:28 - For "whatever reason" is that this limitation is vastly due to how we are built, your range looks perfectly normal to me. To increase the ROM in the wrist takes a lot of work, but it's worth it IMO.
Sure you could spend time working on your wrist range but there are other solutions that will yield better results, like learning how to play on low sensitivity and using your arm to aim. A lot of people give up before they get the hang of it but the end goal is being able to use both the full range of your arm and wrist together allowing for way more control than you could ever achieve grinding out hours aim training on a high sensitivity. The negatives is really not a long list, you can't 180 as fast and learning vertical aiming/tracking with your arm is like learning how to ride a bike for the first time... but once you get the hang of it, it actually gives you far superior control. I can attest as I have spent 1,500+ hours on aim trainers and have gotten a few world bests (that I no longer have) at vertical tracking and various other aim training scenarios.
@@RedLoopster Grind it out on Aim Trainers, after 100 hours you should be at a point where you are better at some skills and pretty close to where you used to be on others. After 500 hours you shouldn't even want to ever go back.
I think I would invert the y-axis for this mouse, even though I hate it with a regular mouse. It makes more intuitive sense for me when my hand is positioned like that, pushing forward to aim down/pulling back to aim up like a helicopter cyclic.
I think a bigger base would be good. I also think if they could make it so you can chnage the x and y sensitivity on the mouse itself would make more sense because there are very few games that seperate x and y sensitivities.
So, I owned a Zalman FPS Gunmouse for a year before it sadly self destructed! One of these days I may resurrect it from the box. The benefits that mouse had, was the sensor was placed forward of your knuckles, on a sled ahead of the pistol grip. This allowed them to extend the length of each "swipe" while maintaining the smooth motion. What they also did with this, was in the way the mouse recognized motion. Instead of drawing an arc if you lock your arm and bend the wrist with the Zalman, it would draw a straight line. If you locked your wrist and moved your whole arm as a "fine motion", it would also translate more a straight line. This worked well as a hand-eye coordination thing, because you'd only need to push/pull with your arm a small amount to fine tune your vertical aim while the horizontal plane was consistent. I would have to use the Ragnok 2 mouse to compare, but I'm not seeing any mention of them having specific tweaks to the sensor. That said, enough practice and you can get good aim with these mice. And it's actually better if you have joint issues.
I have this mouse. Its honestly just a novelty at best in its current forn; however, I'd be really interested in daily driving a v2 or v3 version. For now, its a fun way to change up your game but nothing else. Edit: After using the mouse I would like to add that for a v2 I'd need a bigger handle. I got big grippers and the current handle is a bit small.
@@elitedestroyer0083 lol When I first heard that community use it, I thought they were talking about hands and quickly learned that it was actually feet.
@@elitedestroyer0083in most places online now i hear grippers referring exclusively to toes, not just restricted to small communities. times are a-changin'.
Conceptually, this is brilliant. Especially for ergonomics, office use, and arthritis. I was looking to develop a mouse exactly like this because of frustration with the typical "ergonomic" mouse.
Dude ragnok should be paying you in gold for beta testing feedback. Most reviews are "This is good, this is bad", but you actually came up with quite a bit of constructive insights. Great review.
if they could add a big circle with wheels on base, that would improve overall stability with quicker movements and less wobly especially left and right.
Add in a slight Ball Joint on the bottom to make up for angling the mouse when moving with your wrist. Or... For high tech... Have a sphere or dome Foot which reads the entire surface area point (like a smooth desk surface or a mouse mat) no matter how you angle the mouse.
I really like this over the design of most ergonomic vertical mice. They often have traditional style mouse buttons, which means that you are stuck gripping them awkwardly between the base of your thumb and the inside of you knuckle (with maybe a bit of help from your pinky and ring finger depending on how big the buttons are). It seems like a better design would be somewhere between the two where you have a mouse shaped like a D standing on its end. The flat side being a brace for your thumb whose position you can adjust in and out. That way you would have high table contact on the one side, a solid grip, low hand contact(reducing sweat), and it would technically be held mid way down your fingers enabling a bit of finger adjustment.
I think it would be interesting to see one of these made with 3D axis. Tilting it up and down to move the mouse cursor up and town might feel natural for FPS games.
Honestly its cool to know that "small" channels do actually get company review products and i love how you include that it doesn't effect your opinion. Im subbing 😀
They could make it even more ergonomic if they added a gyroscope and accelerometer. Allowing the user freedom to move in 3D space. Then you can turn the handle sideways to fix the issues for vertical aiming as it would take more effort to supinate your wrist. Fully extending your mouse arm will make it easier to bring the mouse to eye level. It would also be advised that the user should stand straight up to allow for full body adjustments placing less strain from repetitive movement solely on the hand and wrist.
0:30 i mean... theres a reason why moving your arm mostly at the elbow and then doing finer movements at the wrist is one of the best ways to have sideways/turning movement on a mouse... dont get me wrong, its REALLY weird to start and youll prob tire your arm out more but once you get used to it its soo much better
This might be stupid but wouldn't it make more sense to use a sensor pad below and use it as a free-floating mouse instead of trying to use it as a contact Mouse
Like have some kind of built-in tracking software and a secondary part that you can hold the mouse over that actually tracks where it is instead of needing it to touch a surface
it's kinda crazy that someone hasn't made a proper good quality "handshake grip" style of the likes of the MX ergo and such but for gaming. you got the "gun grip" but no "handshake grip" which I think would be a lot better
This is the first video I've watched of yours. I really enjoyed your style of review. The flow, lack of fat, and comprehensiveness. Thank you I'll be watching loads more. What an interesting product.
I used a general purpose/ergonomic vertical mouse four years and it was pretty great. the gun grip shape doesn't seem to solve any of the problems with like, rotation when moving, but having the gun grip mouse be less palm-shaped definitely contributes to the inconsistent grip thing imo
I've been telling anyone who will listen, vertical mice similar to this are a GODSEND for aim based games. I used a Logitech MX vertical for valorant and really got used to it really quickly and was able to flick like never before. Seriously consider giving this a shot if you are interested!
How has War Thunder not been brought up? Or any other kind of flying game/simulator? The mouse joystick setting would probably would perfect with this and let you do much more accurate and natural flying than with a regular mouse.
If there was a way to make elevated base and curve it so that would allow you to tilt forward/backward instead of physically move forward/backward to aim down/up you would be one huge step closer to get an actual gun wielding feel
Really weird and kinda dumb concept imo. The simple reason: it aims nothing like an actual gun (obviously) despite being shaped like the handle of one. Dragging your hand to aim, _especially_ up and down, isn’t even remotely similar to how a real gun functions.
This would be a great mouse for gestures etc. I can imagine lifting the mouse quickly being a reload gesture. Having a decent thumb plate with some buttons would make it perfect.
Finally, a new option for people with damaged hands and wrists! I have been using a Zalmwn FPS Gun for 6 years now as an ergonomic option after a wrist fracture from skateboarding. Idk what I did but after this is would get bad middle finger fatigue and radiating wrist pain from using a regular mouse, as well as pain in the top of my hand from scrolling. The upright hand position and thumb mousewheel have been a godsend - and allowed me to keep working in gamedev. This mouse seems like a v2 of the same concept, with USB C and a wireless sensor. I do wish the mousewheel was north-south and vertical like on the Zalmwn - but hey, cant have everything. Will buy next pay, and if you also have a hand or wrist injury, maybe consider this too! The feel improvement of this vs even a Logitech Vertical is astounding.
It's fucking crazy that I had this idea pop into my head about a month ago and then suddenly this shows up on my recommendations. It's like a sign from god.
Ohhhh boy. I have a project for them: A controller designed around a Wii Zapper with built-in Wiimote & Nonchuck that works on PS5. The W&N has less inputs than the DS5 so 3-4 buttons would have to be added to be perfect. However, pressing two buttons at once in order to activate 1 DS5 input is what I’ve been living with for the past 6 years so if adding buttons is too hard there’s always that. I think it would be cool to add a PTT button for the lobby mic. You could talk freely to your stream and activate that button to talk to your team (or the other way around:). Anyway, thanks for showing me this cool f’ing mouse, dude. If I hit it rich I’m calling Ragnok’s developers!
I would genuinely enjoy playing Tarkov with pistol grip mouse, even if my friends roast the hell out of me I think snipes and one taps would feel even better when pulling a real trigger
The lare swipes remind me of the time I lowered my sensitivty for cs and relearned how to aim using the entire mousepad moving my entire arm, not just a few milimeters with my wrist
I just ordered one of these after watching your video and am looking forward to trying it out. The product page shows that the trigger buttons actually use mechanical keyboard switches, so there's already opportunity to customise their feeling with different switches and/or springs. Putting in heavier weight long springs should allow you to rest your fingers on the buttons without actuating them. I'm planning to try out a tactile switch with a long pre-travel and heavy tactile bump for the main (left mouse button) trigger and a shorter travel linear switch on the second (right mouse button) trigger and then experimenting with spring lengths and weights to tune the feel.
clicky triggers so resting your fingers does not actuate them, and if you want them to be analogue the click would just be an initial resistance as well as its own click sensor, adjustable sensor placement, a better sculpted grip to accommodate consistent hand placement, hinging the handle with the sensor to angle your grip, severe weight reduction improvements, the side plate you mentioned all these are 1000 times more important than the gimmick of “hehe gun mouse durhur”
I'm on console and controller because when shooter genres started popping off, the old philosophy was to make the controller feel like a gun, and I love that feeling to this day. This. This I want to try.
Recoil control is probably a pain in the ass because you‘ll have to move your entire arm for every single shot you take. On a normal mouse you can compensate for single shot and smaller bursts by moving the mouse just with your fingers while keeping the rest of your arm on the pad. The gameplay at 1:30 seems to confirm it. No attempt at controlling the recoil and only looking up/down if it’s absolutely necessary.
Also, as long as we're still working on a 2d plane for mouse movement, the more the wrist is involved compared to say the arm, the better the control. I don't think it'd be possible to grip and manipulate a vertical handle of a mouse like that without involving some arm
This points to my specific problem in gaming. I'm old and retired with both wrists broken. So, while talking about having near 100° horizontal motion, I would have about ¼ of that movement. This is just one reason why I have never bothered with PvP gaming.
It needs more buttons on the side for hotkeys. For people who do not use hotkeys on their mouse while playing games, you're really missing out. I have 8 programmable buttons on my mouse, not including the lmb and rmb, and it's a god send! Being able to hotkey grenades, melee hit, and even the jump button on the mouse makes gaming for me so much more enjoyable because your left hand can just focused on movement while your right hand can concentrate on action base events. Of course, this also allows you to map even more buttons on the left side key that otherwise would of been on the right side of the kb
I’ve been working on my FPS aiming since duck hunt. What helps me is don’t look at crosshair, look at what you’re shooting. Don’t use your wrist because it creates a round axis. Move arm left and right in a straight line. Practice, practice, and practice!
I wonder if having a pivot-able pullback on it would help with vertical aiming? Having it be able to tilt back individually of the base makes it so you can have the action of aiming up feel like you're aiming "up" with a gun, but also make it so you don't need to move your whole shoulder into the movement on a desk. That, and simply a wider base could reduce sideways tilt. It's an interesting idea and I'd love to try it on the second go-around!
I legitimately been thinking about over the last couple years trying to make my own mouse in this format. And then today I see this video and apparently it's already been done! Awesome
This entices me from an ergonomic perspective. It has been said many times this is a more natural hand position and can cut down on fatigue from using the PC for long hours. I think definitely the sensor being positioned to allow a slight angle would be preferable. If you think how you aim a real fiream it's akin to that.
From what I'm looking at, the mouse looks like it could use a better sensor. If they made a new version with a better sensor (possibly partnering with Corsair?), I would love to get my hands on it!
honestly seams like it hits the mark better than most other ergo mouse setups and i agree with what you suggested as well as the sensor relocation would make it a solid start
If they could add some sort of tilt or pivot up/down for vertical tracking, kinda like a joy/flight stick, i feel it would be a lot easier and intuitive. With this grip you get really good horizontal range of motion, but it's impossible to move the mouse vertically without pushing or pulling your entire arm forward, which will certainly cause fatigue and less precision.
Would be awesome with a DPI switch maybe triggered with the ring finger or thumb. This would make larger movements easier when holding that button down
I'd probably have suggested a trigger guard to rest your finger on when you're not using one or both buttons. If your natural instinct during pressure is to close your hand, it'd help alot in games like DRG or Paladins where your right click often does something entirely diffrent and maybe even unrelated to your attacks. Would also just be a nicer way to rest your finger than just hovering it in the air
step 2 would be a mouse which can be rocked back and forth for up and down movements on screen while still using the laser for horizontal movement. so a half-joystick, half-mouse device.
Not a PC guy but fortunately I'm a gun guy, I'm sure theres allot of stuff that can't practically translate seeing as you're on a flat plane however seeing this perhaps with a baseplate that allows your hand to pivot 360° would let both people who shoot and don't shoot get a more natural grip on it. You don't hold a revolver like a glock because the handle is shaped differently, so even though this is an AR type handle you're still limited in some aspects because you're stationary. Cool idea, genuinely love to see where this ends up.
The implication I get from this is that this style might be the next evolution of gaming mice. Maybe not so explicitly a firearm grip, but a definitely vertical mice. The main reason is that this is the vertical equivalent of a $5 2006 HP mouse in your school computer lab and it performs almost as well as a traditional $100 gaming mouse. Slap a few extra buttons on the top, rework the triggers and ergonomics a bit, put some nice textured rubber on the side, maybe allow for 2 trigger modes (actuated, which gives the same type of control as a controller trigger and hair trigger/click, which works like a mouse) and I think it could match if not exceed performance of modern gaming mice. Having some removable weights would also be nice.
I feel like tilting the mouse up with your wrist. Slightly off the table should be able to detect the vertical movement. Maybe implementing a gyroscope. So you have ful range of motion.
If you extended the sensor out more towards where the hypothetical barrel would be, it would make it easier to aim greatly. Just like when he held it out more with his fingers. Have the sensor towards the end of the detatchable base, instead.
I'd like to see more ergonomic focus in the 3 finger placements below the 'trigger' rather than just a straight, flat surface. Also, just an idea for novelty, but situating the batteries to release from the bottom as a slide out like a magazine would be kind of cool lol. Otherwise, a pretty cool product!
I had a pretty janky one of these pistol grip mice before. I used it on and off for about a year. I really loved the thing but I'm also certain it was affecting me detrimentally. The problem with my pistol mouse was the absolute mad scientists that made it opted for having the sensor in the front of the device instead of directly under my hand or anywhere where i could actually build up some real consistency aiming with the thing. Though in retrospect it was not only silly fun but also crazy fast/responsive with the sensor in the front of the thing. Mainly because you could snap your wrist around and the front end of the boot shaped pistol mouse had nothing but infinite leverage to swing around with. It was dramatically easy to go from precise aim one moment to wildly swooping the mouse around to pull off >360s with something like a shotgun up close. I cant do anything like that with my standard mouse unless i want to get used to a dpi toggle or shift which i don't. Of course the main draw back to all that is that since rotating your wrist swings the front of the thing with the sensor around so drastically compared to how little input you provide having to consistently sniper with the thing or just have very very precise aim/shots would become a real chore and almost made me wanna lower dpi which I'm completely against. That thing sure was comfy though, definitely no downsides to that and for casual gaming it rocked.
🔫 Ragnok 2 Gaming Mouse - www.ragnok.net/product/ragnok-2-vertical-gaming-mouse-for-fps-and-tps-games/?ref=20
🎯 The ClawMate Mouse Mod - struthgaminggear.com/
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This can be used as a mouse and a joystick if designed properly in a game package or updated design. Yes, this is a new thing with potential.
Got one. Was worried that it would be sold out after 3 months. It's so cheap that it doesn't make sense not to get one and try it myself.
@@icantwait 75 dollars is cheap? damn
Its called a "Pistol Grip". Just a FYI.
A light weight version with extra buttons ptfe glides and a up to date sensor it could actually be pretty good alternative
That's actually true
im sure thats not an impossible DIY project
yeah, two buttons on the top that you can press with the thumb, that adjust the dpi would be good.
@@handlmycck I was thinking that you could gut a gaming mouse and 3d print a gun handle case and pop everything in
I'm pretty sure every single mouse has ptfe slides now right?
Fun fact, aiming handguns is actually a bit easier and more ergonomic with a very slight inward cant. Just like you described for your preferred tweaks to the mouse. It's just naturally how your arm likes to position when pointing.
so the gangsta lean is tactically sound I hear
They could probably cant it at a slight angle and move the sensor at the bottom more forwards to increase range of motion.
@@vikeskieOnly in akimbo mode ;) Interesting to see this 3-months-old video suddenly blow up.
Unfortunately it only exacerbates the issue he had with his range of motion to the right with his wrist and would further force him into more of an arm aiming style. It would be one hell of a low sens arm aiming mouse with that tweak though.
@@vikeskie Kinda. If your tactic is to convince your opponent that you're so unhinged that you dont even care what you hit. If your tactic is to shoot something specific, probably not great.
I want one already, not even for competitive reasons but because it seems like a blast to play shooters this way.
You aim a gun with a gun handle mouse. Sounds immersive AF.
wait until you find out about vr
@Emma_madison did you even read the op comment at all? I was just pointing out that if you think holding a mouse like a handgun is fun, you should try shooters in VR
I would like it more if it had something like the old namco arcade guncon solenoid motor for recoil
@@krytxpsThe mouse is way cheaper when it comes to unnecessary gimmicks
A part of the reason you felt so much slower aiming rightwards is because you can now naturally engage your entire bicep and chest to pull inward when you move left without even realizing it. It's a much more natural motion of the arm, but the consequence is making it obvious just how non-linear natural motion really is.
This made me incredibly self-conscious of my muscle movements. Thanks.
Imagine if it had tilt sensors and the laser was good enough to still track when slightly off base and when you tilt it, you lean. That would be so cool and fun to use
Great idea - I think you could make it work with a base plate that doesn’t tilt, and a grip that has a strong pivot built into the base plate, to allow the grip itself to tilt
@@pyrosish right back at ya with the good idea, great way to handle it. Maybe they can incorporate it into the v2 model lol
that's a joystick.
@@PaulSpadesding ding ding!
@@PaulSpades Joysticks do not have an optical censor on the button like a mouse.
There was also the MonsterGecko pistol mouse in 2004. Similar concept, except it actually looked kinda like a gun, which was funny.
Imagine a streamer gets swatted holding that.
LOL I had to look pictures of the mouse and it's to funny.
Gospel of Jesus Christ. John 3:16 For God So loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life. Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for all the sin of the World, and now we can be Forgiven of all of our sins and be washed clean by the Blood of Jesus Christ for our iniquities trespasses... now all you need to do is Repent of all of ur sins (Repent means Change ur Mind turning away from sinful things and being truly sorry with all ur heart, and if you Repent and still go back to sinful things nothing will happend but if you are truly serious Lord will change ur life forever) (example of repenting Father God I ask in Jesus Name please forgive me of all my Sins I acknowledge that im a sinful man/woman I am truly sorry and trust in Jesus that he lived suffered and died on the cross for me and my sins so I can be Forgiven was barried and that you rised him on the 3th day please wash me clean with the blood of Christ make in me a new heart that can love and forgive Lord change my desires change me Lord Jesus come into my life change everything about me make me a new creation fill me with ur HolySpirit...)is what sin is Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ. and the only way to heaven is Trough Jesus Christ there is no other way! John 14:6 I Am The Way The Truth And The Life No Man cometh to the Father Except Trough Me. and you are saved by Grace Trough Faith not by works, we cannot save urselfs from sin we don't get to go to heaven because
we don't get to go to heaven because we are a Good People we are not!, we cannot earn ur salvation it is given to us as a Free Gift all we need to do is receive it! Romans 3:23 For All have sinned and Felt Short of the Glory of God. There is none Good but God!, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 KJV.
I have one. The M1 has some travel time and it's a really heavy unit compared to most mice. Also, mine rocks a bit on my desk. I am not sure if that is a design flaw present in all units.
It makes for a cool collector's item for display, but I wouldn't use it as a daily driver. The actual grip is incredibly comfortable and it seems like something that MonsterGecko thought was going to make them rich. Someone put some serious R&D into it. It even has an anime mascot on the booklet and box art. The buttons used are microswitches.
@@Sarcastican_ 🌚 oh shit it's not a g- 🗿💥 ☠️
This idea needs to be iterated on! My wrists has been struggeling for some years and i can't play the amount that i used to do. But this angle will be so much healthier for your wrists since moving them in this direction is much more natural.
Get big gaming mats and put them over the hard surface you are moving your hand over. They cost 20-30 eur in my country.
Buy a massive mousepad and crank the sensitivity way way down and learn how to aim using primarily your arm. Most people give up before they really get the hang of it because it's like starting from scratch with your aim but the longevity and superior control once you master it is totally worth it. Your wrist will thank you and you will be able to play all day every day if you want to.
Vertical mice are not a new idea, search for one
@@snakezulahello!
May i ask what mouse do you use?
Are you talking about vertical mice in general?
@@intranube I use a razer deathadder v2 mini, I was just offering a solution to his wrist problem which is very common. The best solution is to switch to a more sustainable aiming style. High sensitivity wrist aiming isn't ideal because it's harder to be consistent and it's very bad for your wrist but people fall in love with easy flicks because it's flashy.
I've never tried a vertical mouse but it does seem interesting, I just wouldn't bother buying one that is unrefined and slightly gimmicky like this one. I have no clue if one exists that would fit my criteria for me to bother giving it a 100 hour test run.
this is potentially a multi million dollar idea if properly executed and mass produced at a good price. Remake the case with a different material and a slightly different shape, improve the triggers, ptfe feet, add additional buttons for the thumb, lower weight (you could even add some silly capabillity for it to act as a controller for vr, but thats another topic.
The feet are PTFE
@@faranocksthat's good then
ergo mice already exist but a low weight one would be awesome
Lol no its not, the next step is eye tracking or finger tracking, not a handgun grip on a desk
@@expe808 eye tracking is basically cheating imo, finger tracking could be interesting tho
It looks like it could use a bit more iterations, but I'd be interested in picking one of these up with a few adjustments.
Outside of FPS's I feel like this could be a good ergonomic solution as well, but in that case I'd want some more buttons. Maybe take some of the aspects of Hotas sticks to give it more options. The grips of those are generally more comfortable as well.
I was actually considering this precisely for ergonomic reasons -- your comment is underrated.
@@SimonWoodburyForgetpeople already have it. It's called "playing a shooter on a phone". It's worse than knm.
@@SimonWoodburyForget absolutely not. The biggest problem with gyro - inherent human body instability. Notice how when using a mouse the hand is lying on the table which acts as a support. Gyro sucks because you can't perform certain movements in a controlled manner because there's nothing to support your movement. Most peopple either use it for main rotation and then use fingers for precision or the other way around - fingers for quick movements and gyro for precision.
Steam Deck is even more of a meme because it's a heavy brick that you are suggesting should be rotated with your hands. Awful. At least look at VR controls.
If you can find one at a reasonable price, try to get your hands on a FPSGUN FG-1000. I don't have one, but I might get one in the future. There are very few gun mice out there. Going by the reviews made by Boojakasha, there are: Ragnok (1st and 2nd versions), Nextick, Ghost Hunter LM60, M60A3 Combat Gun Mouse, FPSGUN FG-1000, and Pistolmouse FPS by MonsterGecko.
I have owned and then returned the unit in this video, the Ragnok "2". I have a MonsterGecko Pistolmouse FPS on display along with the box in my room.
The Ghost Hunter LM60 is only feasibly obtainable in China and it is unlikely you would be able to get it through customs/obtain one at all if you live in the west. Not without some serious connections for obtaining collectors items.
Your best bet is the unit I mentioned above. From everything I've heard, it seems like the best gun mouse from a functional standpoint, ignoring the Ghost Hunter. Also, if you want a good laugh, look up the original trailer for the FPSGUN FG-1000.
The base idea is great, still needs a lot of tuning but the main idea is really cool for a vertical mouse design (as someone who started using a vertical mouse a year or two ago I'd be interested in a refined version of this)
Do you have a vertical mouse recommendation? I feel like they would help me a lot in certain genres due to wrist pain. Thanks if you respond
I looked for it but I don't think there's one suitable for gaming... At least not yet. I use the one from Philips for office use.
Do you have a vertical mouse recommendation? I feel like they would help me a lot in certain genres due to wrist pain. Thanks if you respond
Something good to suddenly pull out in the airport or near a cop.
Black kid got shot for opening the front door for a cop with a Wii controller in his hand.
@@JasonHendersonThey’ll shoot you with nothing in ur hands so I’m not even surprised anymore
You could pull out an actual mouse in front of a cop and get shot
Where did you learn about this mouse, and do you have tips for where to look for these kind of radical mice projects/releases? All I see is the new weight reduction or outer shell holes, on shapes that have been done to death. Im convinced we have a lot of room for improvement when it comes to how the shape of a mouse should be, for optimal potential in aiming.
The first I heard about it was when they contacted me. The mousereview reddit is a good place to stay up to date. I too would like to be more aware of radical projects like this one.
im really curious to see their next iteration. if they improve some of the stuff you mentioned id definitely buy it just to try it even
Gospel of Jesus Christ. John 3:16 For God So loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life. Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for all the sin of the World, and now we can be Forgiven of all of our sins and be washed clean by the Blood of Jesus Christ for our iniquities trespasses... now all you need to do is Repent of all of ur sins (Repent means Change ur Mind turning away from sinful things and being truly sorry with all ur heart, and if you Repent and still go back to sinful things nothing will happend but if you are truly serious Lord will change ur life forever) (example of repenting Father God I ask in Jesus Name please forgive me of all my Sins I acknowledge that im a sinful man/woman I am truly sorry and trust in Jesus that he lived suffered and died on the cross for me and my sins so I can be Forgiven was barried and that you rised him on the 3th day please wash me clean with the blood of Christ make in me a new heart that can love and forgive Lord change my desires change me Lord Jesus come into my life change everything about me make me a new creation fill me with ur HolySpirit...)is what sin is Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ. and the only way to heaven is Trough Jesus Christ there is no other way! John 14:6 I Am The Way The Truth And The Life No Man cometh to the Father Except Trough Me. and you are saved by Grace Trough Faith not by works, we cannot save urselfs from sin we don't get to go to heaven because
we don't get to go to heaven because we are a Good People we are not!, we cannot earn ur salvation it is given to us as a Free Gift all we need to do is receive it! Romans 3:23 For All have sinned and Felt Short of the Glory of God. There is none Good but God!, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 KJV.
Same, I will def buy their 2nd version if it had an updated sensor
Imagine a branded version with the trigger guard and grip of your semiautomatic pistol of choice. That'd be super neat!
If a mouse has a resting grip like this, and also the ability to lean and not lose tracking would be neat.
I like the concept but I really expect the vertical movement to feel really weird. I wist the mouse could tilt up and down like a joystick so you can slide on the X-axis and tilt on the Y-axis.
It would have to be on a base like a joystick, would probably make it weigh 5x as much as it already does
It would be cool if the base was completely stationary, but was much wider and would glide along the base like a ball bearing rather than a base with a denser gliding on the table. It could be pretty bulky, but w some a table accommodations I think it would be dope
imagine if it had gyro aiming for finer aiming on top of the laser for larger movements.
Gospel of Jesus Christ. John 3:16 For God So loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not Perish but have Everlasting Life. Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for all the sin of the World, and now we can be Forgiven of all of our sins and be washed clean by the Blood of Jesus Christ for our iniquities trespasses... now all you need to do is Repent of all of ur sins (Repent means Change ur Mind turning away from sinful things and being truly sorry with all ur heart, and if you Repent and still go back to sinful things nothing will happend but if you are truly serious Lord will change ur life forever) (example of repenting Father God I ask in Jesus Name please forgive me of all my Sins I acknowledge that im a sinful man/woman I am truly sorry and trust in Jesus that he lived suffered and died on the cross for me and my sins so I can be Forgiven was barried and that you rised him on the 3th day please wash me clean with the blood of Christ make in me a new heart that can love and forgive Lord change my desires change me Lord Jesus come into my life change everything about me make me a new creation fill me with ur HolySpirit...)is what sin is Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of eternal life in our Lord Jesus Christ. and the only way to heaven is Trough Jesus Christ there is no other way! John 14:6 I Am The Way The Truth And The Life No Man cometh to the Father Except Trough Me. and you are saved by Grace Trough Faith not by works, we cannot save urselfs from sin we don't get to go to heaven because
we don't get to go to heaven because we are a Good People we are not!, we cannot earn ur salvation it is given to us as a Free Gift all we need to do is receive it! Romans 3:23 For All have sinned and Felt Short of the Glory of God. There is none Good but God!, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 KJV.
I was thinking the same. A pivot point that lets you tilt on the y-axis with a spring or roller rail mechanism to keep the optic planted to the surface as you tilt.
I haven't tried a vertical mouse to that extreme before, but I have used ergo vertical mice (which have been around for a while) and those can drastically improve your aim as well, while being more comfortable at the same time. I'm not a competitive gamer, nor do I play competitive games anymore, but I'm surprised vertical mice haven't caught on in the hardcore scene.
The main reason they haven't is that they tend to be fairly heavy.
@@colbyboucher6391 Eh, I never understood the lightweight thing myself, I prefer a heavier mouse.
@@Brunnen_Geeheavier mice tend to be good if your sens is higher and your mouse surface provides little friction, as that makes the mouse more controllable at those higher sensitivities, and with less movement as well as less friction the weight of the mouse is not as relevant of a factor.
This vertical mouse may be an exception - it seems to benefit from a lower sens specifically because of the larger range of motion possible.
its also probably not really caught in the hardcore scene because few places actually make a gaming mouse thats up to other gaming mice standards like this. ergo mice are just that ergo, not really made for competitive play. and this thing that looks like a toy, well doesnt look like they stuffed all their eggs into the basket, it looks cheaply made. even the base that he took off didnt seem to clip on at all and just slid off quite easily. itd need a lot of publicity to even make anyone think of trying to make a decent one.
They'll never catch on until they start releasing vertical mice with high DPI. Nearly all vertical mice are made from the exact same parts and they all have low DPI which makes them feel like they're moving on a grid. As much as I wanted to try using mine for gaming it was impossible because of that.
I used a vertical mouse with a very wide base and positive buttons, and it actually took very little adjustment. I use wide sweeps instead of pivoting my wrist, so that could be part of it. I bought it alongside a Razer just as a fun experiment, but it actually ended up being my main mouse for about six months until one day it randomly died on me, but until then it was a good mouse
Ive been using a cheap vertical mouse for gaming too; In the early days you could really feel the difference, but you get used to it over time, I wonder how gamers already using a vertical mouse would fare with a pistol grip mouse.
I didn't even know that was a thing! :O
* looks it up * I would imagine someone with a 3D printer might be able to make some sort of pistol grip contraption adapter to work like this one does.
I used to use a similar mouse called the Zalman FG-1000 FPS Gun, similar in the way of being a vertical mouse shaped like a pistol grip, but the main difference is that the Zalman is much bigger, and wired.
The Zalman actually solves two problems you found with the Ragnok, one is the sensor placement. While the Ragnok is right underneath your hand, and looks even closer to your wrist than a regular mouse, the Zalman's sensor is *much* further forward, way more than a typical mouse, this being one of the original selling points. Another gripe you mentioned was that the Ragnok is completely vertical, while the Zalman is sloped on the far side, letting your hand rest at roughly an 80 degree angle, as well as having a better place to rest your palm, rather than the perfect 90 demanded by the Ragnok.
I went though two of them before they were discontinued, and second hand ones on Ebay hit triple digits, so I ended up reverting back to a regular mouse.
I miss the Zalman, and I wish someone would make a mouse in a similar form factor to it, but this isnt it
Just discovered these thanks to your comment, think it would work win 10? Does it have native or 3rd party driver support?
I dont think it should have a problem with Win 10, I last used it on I think Win 7, though. The latest driver was released in 2013, so it wont be the most optimized mouse on the market. Also, as they're not manufactured, finding them second hand, or even in packaging still, is gonna cost at least $100.
Its DPI customization is very restrictive, if you typically use a DPI outside of its range, its gonna take a little while. It has a 'Low, Med, High' setting, with a hotkey near your ring finger to cycle though the modes. Low can only be set to 400 or 600, Medium can only be set to 800, 1000, or 1200, and High can only be set to 1400, 1600, or 2000 @@southpark159753
@@notestarlord7775 i still use it NOW, i was able to buy other units some years ago, i have 3 of them but some buttons keeps broking and need to be fixed. i already tear it down some times. it is THE ONLY mouse i love. my biggest regret is i did not buy 20 of them to use for lifetime. on windows 10 still works perfectly. handle grip and sensor being further forward is THE KEY for this perfect mouse. here in italy (but also in europe) seems impossible to find them, even at 100eu. i want to buy some..do u have links?
With a little moding this would be crazy I'm getting one now. You can try a 3D printed replacement with that angle you talked about. That would be a sick video also
Wow, didn't even think of the applications of 3D printing over this as a base. Probably make some sick custom stuff if you were a serious enthusiast.
update?
He wouldn't like the angle, he would lose even more of the range of motion to the right with his wrist that he was already complaining about. At that point you would almost exclusively have to arm aim and it would become exclusively a low sensitivity aiming mouse. Any position that isn't 100% vertical or horizontal for your wrist will take away from your range of motion to the outside.
@@snakezula good point
5:28 - For "whatever reason" is that this limitation is vastly due to how we are built, your range looks perfectly normal to me. To increase the ROM in the wrist takes a lot of work, but it's worth it IMO.
A little tip: If you're going to timestamp make sure you're capturing the moment you quote lol
Sure you could spend time working on your wrist range but there are other solutions that will yield better results, like learning how to play on low sensitivity and using your arm to aim. A lot of people give up before they get the hang of it but the end goal is being able to use both the full range of your arm and wrist together allowing for way more control than you could ever achieve grinding out hours aim training on a high sensitivity. The negatives is really not a long list, you can't 180 as fast and learning vertical aiming/tracking with your arm is like learning how to ride a bike for the first time... but once you get the hang of it, it actually gives you far superior control. I can attest as I have spent 1,500+ hours on aim trainers and have gotten a few world bests (that I no longer have) at vertical tracking and various other aim training scenarios.
@@snakezula tried learning this multiple times, but very difficult to accept that huge drop in skill after playing just with wrist for decades
@@RedLoopster Grind it out on Aim Trainers, after 100 hours you should be at a point where you are better at some skills and pretty close to where you used to be on others. After 500 hours you shouldn't even want to ever go back.
I think I would invert the y-axis for this mouse, even though I hate it with a regular mouse. It makes more intuitive sense for me when my hand is positioned like that, pushing forward to aim down/pulling back to aim up like a helicopter cyclic.
I think a bigger base would be good. I also think if they could make it so you can chnage the x and y sensitivity on the mouse itself would make more sense because there are very few games that seperate x and y sensitivities.
I think there is already software that exists to do this, so yeah they could make their own and bundle it with the mouse for extra value
So, I owned a Zalman FPS Gunmouse for a year before it sadly self destructed! One of these days I may resurrect it from the box. The benefits that mouse had, was the sensor was placed forward of your knuckles, on a sled ahead of the pistol grip. This allowed them to extend the length of each "swipe" while maintaining the smooth motion. What they also did with this, was in the way the mouse recognized motion. Instead of drawing an arc if you lock your arm and bend the wrist with the Zalman, it would draw a straight line. If you locked your wrist and moved your whole arm as a "fine motion", it would also translate more a straight line. This worked well as a hand-eye coordination thing, because you'd only need to push/pull with your arm a small amount to fine tune your vertical aim while the horizontal plane was consistent. I would have to use the Ragnok 2 mouse to compare, but I'm not seeing any mention of them having specific tweaks to the sensor. That said, enough practice and you can get good aim with these mice. And it's actually better if you have joint issues.
I have this mouse. Its honestly just a novelty at best in its current forn; however, I'd be really interested in daily driving a v2 or v3 version. For now, its a fun way to change up your game but nothing else.
Edit: After using the mouse I would like to add that for a v2 I'd need a bigger handle. I got big grippers and the current handle is a bit small.
Wubby viewer here, Grippers = feet
@@snakezula I've heard people use grippers as slang for hands, never feet. The more you know.
@@elitedestroyer0083 lol When I first heard that community use it, I thought they were talking about hands and quickly learned that it was actually feet.
@@elitedestroyer0083in most places online now i hear grippers referring exclusively to toes, not just restricted to small communities. times are a-changin'.
@@snakezulawhat is a wubby
That looks so comfortable!
Conceptually, this is brilliant. Especially for ergonomics, office use, and arthritis. I was looking to develop a mouse exactly like this because of frustration with the typical "ergonomic" mouse.
Dude ragnok should be paying you in gold for beta testing feedback. Most reviews are "This is good, this is bad", but you actually came up with quite a bit of constructive insights. Great review.
if they could add a big circle with wheels on base, that would improve overall stability with quicker movements and less wobly especially left and right.
Add in a slight Ball Joint on the bottom to make up for angling the mouse when moving with your wrist.
Or... For high tech... Have a sphere or dome Foot which reads the entire surface area point (like a smooth desk surface or a mouse mat) no matter how you angle the mouse.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 isn't this just a joystick?
@@jakfolisto
Perry much... It's Mouse Stick without the drawback of tilting it.
It would be interesting to see this kind of mouse hyper optimized for aiming.
It will be cool if it have rumble motors for haptic feedback.
I really like this over the design of most ergonomic vertical mice. They often have traditional style mouse buttons, which means that you are stuck gripping them awkwardly between the base of your thumb and the inside of you knuckle (with maybe a bit of help from your pinky and ring finger depending on how big the buttons are).
It seems like a better design would be somewhere between the two where you have a mouse shaped like a D standing on its end. The flat side being a brace for your thumb whose position you can adjust in and out. That way you would have high table contact on the one side, a solid grip, low hand contact(reducing sweat), and it would technically be held mid way down your fingers enabling a bit of finger adjustment.
Have you heard of the Z?
your aim is pretty good, I did not expect the smoothness and the flicks. Curious to try now.
I'm a little sad that the updated version ditched symmetry. If they had a left handed version of the version 2 I'd be pretty interested.
Same! Aiming up and down seems really awkward on it though.
I think it would be interesting to see one of these made with 3D axis. Tilting it up and down to move the mouse cursor up and town might feel natural for FPS games.
That could be a lot of fun to play with
Reinventing the joystick now
the sensor should have a slider where you can move the sensor forward or backward with the base plate or not.
You should make a review channel, tho the review market is kinda saturated at this point I think you would stand out.
Honestly its cool to know that "small" channels do actually get company review products and i love how you include that it doesn't effect your opinion. Im subbing 😀
They could make it even more ergonomic if they added a gyroscope and accelerometer. Allowing the user freedom to move in 3D space. Then you can turn the handle sideways to fix the issues for vertical aiming as it would take more effort to supinate your wrist. Fully extending your mouse arm will make it easier to bring the mouse to eye level. It would also be advised that the user should stand straight up to allow for full body adjustments placing less strain from repetitive movement solely on the hand and wrist.
You have just described the Nintendo Wii
0:30 i mean... theres a reason why moving your arm mostly at the elbow and then doing finer movements at the wrist is one of the best ways to have sideways/turning movement on a mouse...
dont get me wrong, its REALLY weird to start and youll prob tire your arm out more but once you get used to it its soo much better
the sensor should be a bit forward right, i think that would help a lot with sensitivity problems
This might be stupid but wouldn't it make more sense to use a sensor pad below and use it as a free-floating mouse instead of trying to use it as a contact Mouse
Like have some kind of built-in tracking software and a secondary part that you can hold the mouse over that actually tracks where it is instead of needing it to touch a surface
it's kinda crazy that someone hasn't made a proper good quality "handshake grip" style of the likes of the MX ergo and such but for gaming.
you got the "gun grip" but no "handshake grip" which I think would be a lot better
This is the first video I've watched of yours. I really enjoyed your style of review. The flow, lack of fat, and comprehensiveness. Thank you I'll be watching loads more. What an interesting product.
Using it also enables expert mode when getting swatted
now you just need a keyboard that looks like a bomb
I used a general purpose/ergonomic vertical mouse four years and it was pretty great. the gun grip shape doesn't seem to solve any of the problems with like, rotation when moving, but having the gun grip mouse be less palm-shaped definitely contributes to the inconsistent grip thing imo
Do you think that this mouse might be useful for less ideal desk situations or, as an example, would a tall desk make this mouse hard to use?
Am gonna make my own with pvc and glue. Thanks for the idea Ragnok! and for the video Struth!
I did it. ua-cam.com/users/shortsQSvr__rvzQ4?si=jiVNXxfqJRQrkRTL
I've been telling anyone who will listen, vertical mice similar to this are a GODSEND for aim based games. I used a Logitech MX vertical for valorant and really got used to it really quickly and was able to flick like never before. Seriously consider giving this a shot if you are interested!
This is how the Legion Go joystick is. I enjoy it.
I’m interested if a company will make like a glove and you just rest your hands in the mousepad and aim with it
How has War Thunder not been brought up? Or any other kind of flying game/simulator? The mouse joystick setting would probably would perfect with this and let you do much more accurate and natural flying than with a regular mouse.
mouse in USA be like:
If there was a way to make elevated base and curve it so that would allow you to tilt forward/backward instead of physically move forward/backward to aim down/up you would be one huge step closer to get an actual gun wielding feel
Really weird and kinda dumb concept imo. The simple reason: it aims nothing like an actual gun (obviously) despite being shaped like the handle of one. Dragging your hand to aim, _especially_ up and down, isn’t even remotely similar to how a real gun functions.
This would be a great mouse for gestures etc. I can imagine lifting the mouse quickly being a reload gesture. Having a decent thumb plate with some buttons would make it perfect.
Soooo, a joystick? 🤔
I'd be more interested in it if it had side buttons for the thumb. Looks like it would be a nice design for an MMO mouse.
5:26 thats how wrists are supposed to behave
=)))
Finally, a new option for people with damaged hands and wrists!
I have been using a Zalmwn FPS Gun for 6 years now as an ergonomic option after a wrist fracture from skateboarding. Idk what I did but after this is would get bad middle finger fatigue and radiating wrist pain from using a regular mouse, as well as pain in the top of my hand from scrolling.
The upright hand position and thumb mousewheel have been a godsend - and allowed me to keep working in gamedev.
This mouse seems like a v2 of the same concept, with USB C and a wireless sensor. I do wish the mousewheel was north-south and vertical like on the Zalmwn - but hey, cant have everything.
Will buy next pay, and if you also have a hand or wrist injury, maybe consider this too! The feel improvement of this vs even a Logitech Vertical is astounding.
It's fucking crazy that I had this idea pop into my head about a month ago and then suddenly this shows up on my recommendations. It's like a sign from god.
Ohhhh boy. I have a project for them: A controller designed around a Wii Zapper with built-in Wiimote & Nonchuck that works on PS5. The W&N has less inputs than the DS5 so 3-4 buttons would have to be added to be perfect. However, pressing two buttons at once in order to activate 1 DS5 input is what I’ve been living with for the past 6 years so if adding buttons is too hard there’s always that. I think it would be cool to add a PTT button for the lobby mic. You could talk freely to your stream and activate that button to talk to your team (or the other way around:). Anyway, thanks for showing me this cool f’ing mouse, dude. If I hit it rich I’m calling Ragnok’s developers!
I would genuinely enjoy playing Tarkov with pistol grip mouse, even if my friends roast the hell out of me I think snipes and one taps would feel even better when pulling a real trigger
The lare swipes remind me of the time I lowered my sensitivty for cs and relearned how to aim using the entire mousepad moving my entire arm, not just a few milimeters with my wrist
A mousepad that has a wrist rest really helped me. Resting my wrist on the rest pad while aiming makes a big difference for me.
If they balanced it the way you suggested and included accurate force-feedback, I'd love to buy this mouse.
I just ordered one of these after watching your video and am looking forward to trying it out.
The product page shows that the trigger buttons actually use mechanical keyboard switches, so there's already opportunity to customise their feeling with different switches and/or springs. Putting in heavier weight long springs should allow you to rest your fingers on the buttons without actuating them.
I'm planning to try out a tactile switch with a long pre-travel and heavy tactile bump for the main (left mouse button) trigger and a shorter travel linear switch on the second (right mouse button) trigger and then experimenting with spring lengths and weights to tune the feel.
clicky triggers so resting your fingers does not actuate them, and if you want them to be analogue the click would just be an initial resistance as well as its own click sensor, adjustable sensor placement, a better sculpted grip to accommodate consistent hand placement, hinging the handle with the sensor to angle your grip, severe weight reduction improvements, the side plate you mentioned
all these are 1000 times more important than the gimmick of “hehe gun mouse durhur”
I'm on console and controller because when shooter genres started popping off, the old philosophy was to make the controller feel like a gun, and I love that feeling to this day. This. This I want to try.
Recoil control is probably a pain in the ass because you‘ll have to move your entire arm for every single shot you take. On a normal mouse you can compensate for single shot and smaller bursts by moving the mouse just with your fingers while keeping the rest of your arm on the pad.
The gameplay at 1:30 seems to confirm it. No attempt at controlling the recoil and only looking up/down if it’s absolutely necessary.
Skill issue.
Also, as long as we're still working on a 2d plane for mouse movement, the more the wrist is involved compared to say the arm, the better the control. I don't think it'd be possible to grip and manipulate a vertical handle of a mouse like that without involving some arm
looks like a solid prototype. with a more ergonomic design, and sturdier build quality, i can see it being a serious contender for fps gaming
This points to my specific problem in gaming. I'm old and retired with both wrists broken. So, while talking about having near 100° horizontal motion, I would have about ¼ of that movement. This is just one reason why I have never bothered with PvP gaming.
It needs more buttons on the side for hotkeys. For people who do not use hotkeys on their mouse while playing games, you're really missing out.
I have 8 programmable buttons on my mouse, not including the lmb and rmb, and it's a god send!
Being able to hotkey grenades, melee hit, and even the jump button on the mouse makes gaming for me so much more enjoyable because your left hand can just focused on movement while your right hand can concentrate on action base events.
Of course, this also allows you to map even more buttons on the left side key that otherwise would of been on the right side of the kb
There's gotta be something here it could be amazing with adjustable sensor placement and better buttons with an up to date sensor.
I’ve been working on my FPS aiming since duck hunt. What helps me is don’t look at crosshair, look at what you’re shooting. Don’t use your wrist because it creates a round axis. Move arm left and right in a straight line. Practice, practice, and practice!
I wonder if having a pivot-able pullback on it would help with vertical aiming? Having it be able to tilt back individually of the base makes it so you can have the action of aiming up feel like you're aiming "up" with a gun, but also make it so you don't need to move your whole shoulder into the movement on a desk. That, and simply a wider base could reduce sideways tilt.
It's an interesting idea and I'd love to try it on the second go-around!
I legitimately been thinking about over the last couple years trying to make my own mouse in this format. And then today I see this video and apparently it's already been done! Awesome
yeah but still needs a gyroscope enabled version, then we will be set.
This entices me from an ergonomic perspective. It has been said many times this is a more natural hand position and can cut down on fatigue from using the PC for long hours.
I think definitely the sensor being positioned to allow a slight angle would be preferable. If you think how you aim a real fiream it's akin to that.
From what I'm looking at, the mouse looks like it could use a better sensor. If they made a new version with a better sensor (possibly partnering with Corsair?), I would love to get my hands on it!
loved the review, felt truthful and objective ngl, fresh stuff
honestly seams like it hits the mark better than most other ergo mouse setups and i agree with what you suggested as well as the sensor relocation would make it a solid start
If they could add some sort of tilt or pivot up/down for vertical tracking, kinda like a joy/flight stick, i feel it would be a lot easier and intuitive. With this grip you get really good horizontal range of motion, but it's impossible to move the mouse vertically without pushing or pulling your entire arm forward, which will certainly cause fatigue and less precision.
Would be awesome with a DPI switch maybe triggered with the ring finger or thumb. This would make larger movements easier when holding that button down
Making this thing tilted to the left, like you suggest, would be really bad for side-to-side wrist movements
I'd probably have suggested a trigger guard to rest your finger on when you're not using one or both buttons. If your natural instinct during pressure is to close your hand, it'd help alot in games like DRG or Paladins where your right click often does something entirely diffrent and maybe even unrelated to your attacks. Would also just be a nicer way to rest your finger than just hovering it in the air
step 2 would be a mouse which can be rocked back and forth for up and down movements on screen while still using the laser for horizontal movement. so a half-joystick, half-mouse device.
This seems like it would be pretty relaxed on the wrist. I kinda want this to continue to be explored
your ideas are poggers they really need to watch this
Not a PC guy but fortunately I'm a gun guy, I'm sure theres allot of stuff that can't practically translate seeing as you're on a flat plane however seeing this perhaps with a baseplate that allows your hand to pivot 360° would let both people who shoot and don't shoot get a more natural grip on it.
You don't hold a revolver like a glock because the handle is shaped differently, so even though this is an AR type handle you're still limited in some aspects because you're stationary. Cool idea, genuinely love to see where this ends up.
seems like a super sensitive wireless joystick
The lack of extra buttons really hurts it, unfortunately. I can't really function without a five button anymore for gaming...
The implication I get from this is that this style might be the next evolution of gaming mice. Maybe not so explicitly a firearm grip, but a definitely vertical mice. The main reason is that this is the vertical equivalent of a $5 2006 HP mouse in your school computer lab and it performs almost as well as a traditional $100 gaming mouse. Slap a few extra buttons on the top, rework the triggers and ergonomics a bit, put some nice textured rubber on the side, maybe allow for 2 trigger modes (actuated, which gives the same type of control as a controller trigger and hair trigger/click, which works like a mouse) and I think it could match if not exceed performance of modern gaming mice. Having some removable weights would also be nice.
Moving both the sensor and the base to an area in the front would solve all the issues apparent i think
I've been playing with vertical mouse for about 4 years now and I don't think of going back to normal ones. Fairly comfy.
If those adjustments were implemented, that would be a great product. Awesome video!
I feel like tilting the mouse up with your wrist. Slightly off the table should be able to detect the vertical movement. Maybe implementing a gyroscope. So you have ful range of motion.
If you extended the sensor out more towards where the hypothetical barrel would be, it would make it easier to aim greatly.
Just like when he held it out more with his fingers. Have the sensor towards the end of the detatchable base, instead.
I'd like to see more ergonomic focus in the 3 finger placements below the 'trigger' rather than just a straight, flat surface. Also, just an idea for novelty, but situating the batteries to release from the bottom as a slide out like a magazine would be kind of cool lol. Otherwise, a pretty cool product!
I had a pretty janky one of these pistol grip mice before. I used it on and off for about a year. I really loved the thing but I'm also certain it was affecting me detrimentally.
The problem with my pistol mouse was the absolute mad scientists that made it opted for having the sensor in the front of the device instead of directly under my hand or anywhere where i could actually build up some real consistency aiming with the thing.
Though in retrospect it was not only silly fun but also crazy fast/responsive with the sensor in the front of the thing. Mainly because you could snap your wrist around and the front end of the boot shaped pistol mouse had nothing but infinite leverage to swing around with.
It was dramatically easy to go from precise aim one moment to wildly swooping the mouse around to pull off >360s with something like a shotgun up close. I cant do anything like that with my standard mouse unless i want to get used to a dpi toggle or shift which i don't.
Of course the main draw back to all that is that since rotating your wrist swings the front of the thing with the sensor around so drastically compared to how little input you provide having to consistently sniper with the thing or just have very very precise aim/shots would become a real chore and almost made me wanna lower dpi which I'm completely against.
That thing sure was comfy though, definitely no downsides to that and for casual gaming it rocked.