Analog switches were an idea before Wooting, they just evolved it and mainstreamed it. Razer started the innovation, that's fact and history so thank Razer, regardless of wootings dialed in
Imagine getting back from a nine-to-five and deciding to play some OW, and see someone shaking like they're having a grand mal seizure clap everyone around you.
CS2 has just banned this feature, beware. Citation from the update log "If you have a keyboard that includes an input-automation feature (e.g., "Snap Tap Mode"), be sure to disable the feature before you join a match in order to avoid any interruption to your matches."
I’m curious if they will be sticking to banning people for it. Especially since they don’t even ban people who are blatantly cheating. And by cheating I mean getting over 70 kills in a game and killing the whole enemy team in no time at all every round. 😂 we don’t run into them much but out of the 5 we’ve found since CS2 came out all five are still not Vac banned. We save the profiles on a Google doc and every time we talk about cheating in CS we end up looking at them to check. So far none of them have been banned.
"At a hardware level" is becoming extremely ambiguous as hardware components become microcomputers themselves. Keyboards like WOOTING and Razer Hunstman have full-blown CPUs, RAM, and storage inside. Unambiguously allowing any "hardware level input" by defining the cutoff point at the driver also means that explicitly banned complex macros and scripts must be allowed if they run on the Keyboard's CPU instead of the gaming PC's. Esports should really get ahead of this by creating clear guidelines around what is and isn't "raw input" or we're just going to see more and more monitors giving extra-sensory information and mice/keyboards correcting aim and movement in completely "legal" ways.
Of course on the casual side we're cooked, no way to detect and stop these things, but in sanctioned tournaments they have a lot more control over what players can use
@@electrified0 There are plenty of ways to counter it, all of which will likely reduce the skill gap but will make these new features effectively pointless. Proper momentum stops the strafe spam, move speed tied to accuracy prevents instant 100% accuracy on keypress, input detection can be used to detect how quickly keys are being pressed in order to delay or ignore spam. It will either be accepted (unlikely, it's horrible for new players to go against and will kill games), nerfed heavily, or patched out.
If it connects via USB it has a microcontroller in it and in some cases they have more performance and features and in some cases less. Therefore making a rule in regards to raw input is kind of bullshiting around the problem.
@@dragoni_penguin "ALRIGHT YOU WANNA LEARN HOW TO DO A FRICKING COPY PASTE? HIGHLIGHT TEXT, CONTROL KEY, C KEY, CONTROL KEY, V KEY! KEEP UP THE RHYTHM!"
This was banned in fighting games. There are rules that simultaneous opposite cardinal directions *must* produce no action within the controllers firmware settings. I'm sure same will be done for other games.
Nah. Fighting games are exclusively run by nerds, the input plays a huge part of gameplay and they tend to play consoles. FPS is just P2W and I'm cool with that. Don't bring a V6 to a V8 drag race.
@@idrinktapwater6174 In CS this keyboard will carry you from a silver 5, to a silver 5. It really is not that big of a deal. Sure it is cool and nice, but nothing out of this world.
Not sure about other games but this a very common bind in Team Fortress 2; so common in fact that the most popular performance config sets it up for you by default
Yeah! TF2 was how I first learned about null movement binds too. It really should be more commonplace, though I could see how it might break some games if they weren't designed for it
There are many games where using the Wootings analogue controls are banned. In many games it doesn't do much, anyways. This is definitely cheating, after all it is just software that gives you an advantage you should not have.
I scratch my head trying to understand how it is any fun playing against extremely jiggly targets over and over anymore. I stopped playing competitive shooter games a long time ago due to cheating and other things, but now I really question if it's even worth a damn if all everyone does is hard-jiggle all the time and play an extreme game of whack-a-mole. Just doesn't look like fun anymore but instead an extreme source of annoyance.
@@VancouI think there should be a realistic form of movement in any competitive shooter. A hard left-and-right manoeuvre that instantly goes from 100% left to 100% right feels extremely artificial and too easy to exploit. I think the old method of having to control your actions by properly timing the keybuttons should be hard-limited into the engine and not dependent on hardware technology. It makes the game extremely unpredictable when one enemy uses the proper method and another walks around like a robocop.
It's quite easy to fix from a developer point of view, it's just that certain specific games have allowed this mechanically. Mainly that games like CS have no inertia, whereas Valorant has more or less fully solved the issue.
That's the whole reason SOCD cleaners had to be implemented in leverless sticks and made it so holding left + right goes to neutral was the legal standard
It would be harder to argue against the keyboard that has a physical lever to control your strafing inputs compared to one that does it in semiconductor logic.
This seems very similar to the SOCD issue that came up in the fighting game community when leverless controllers started becoming more widespread. That got so bad that lots of official tournaments now require you leverless controllers be set up to "clean" SOCD such that pressing two different directions results in no direction being pressed at all (or only one is considered pressed) and I wouldn't be surprised if a similar mandate were used for actual FPS tournaments.
Thought the same thing, SOCD cleaning and Hitbox problems arrived to the FPS community lmao. I wonder if they'll ever get something similar to the Hitbox Cross-Up controversy
Nah I disagree, I don't see any other logical course of action than to implement this movement behaviour in games by default. CS (for instance) is already way too competitive outside of tournaments.
The very moment they mentioned what Razer's new tech was I just thought "Oh that's just a form of SOCD cleaning with bias to the last key pressed. Why is this new?" I can imagine this being really good for FPS games yet for basically any other game it feels like it might cause some jank. Especially if it's coded to bias any key instead of just WS and AD.
Competitive FPS has been limiting player accuracy during movement for decades now because it’s “realistic”, but simultaneously allowing people to zero-out momentum or even fully change direction in milliseconds. Like, pick a lane.
"pros" really are just cheaters, they want the basic mechanics to limit other people while they know the secret cheats to do better, and unfortunately their voice is the loudest so they get to push everyone out of the games permanently banning the top 1% skilled players would do wonders for online gaming
in fighting games this is called socd (simultaneous opposite cardinal directions) and if pressing right and left doesn't equal neutral like when your not using snap tap, your controller is considered banned.
I spent $60 to order a "MaxxStick" this week. Can't wait for this thing to arrive. Not as cool as analog switches, but intuitive and MUCH cheaper! It's just a USB joystick that sits below your spacebar at an angle.
@@noaag most people who competitively game use keyboards to avoid controllers/joysticks. buttons have consistent feedback (no partial left/right) and joysticks have flick back (flick the stick left, the elastics gonna snap back to the right when you release)
@@juliansanderson839it very much depends on the game. You're absolutely right when it comes to FPS games, but when it comes to top-down or 3rd person action, there's times where being able to move at 60° is absolutely necessary.
@@silasary i agree and here are more reasons it can be good within FPS games. Since normal keyboards are digital input: you're at max move speed/accel or you're at a dead stop. I put 700 hours or so in the FPS BattleBit in the last couple years, and it's seriously irritating how you can't walk slower, when you want to peek corners carefully. [Crouching and prone exist but changing stance is slow and ruins aim] (And like you said being able to move in 360⁰ with full aim control is HUGE!!) Joystick or analog keys permits this. You know what analog keys CAN'T do? Put 4 directions of movement on one thumb and free up the 3 longest fingers on your left hand. Grenade, Ping, sprint, equipment switching, whatever you want, you can get comfortable pushing without moving your fingers from home row / wasd. The potential is so high For the record im buying it to play an mmo but im def trying it with shooters too.
Im surprised this isn't a standard setting on gaming keyboards. It seems so simple and similar to how other gaming products focus on tuning for gaming instead of office work like the computer's original design.
Probably not standard because pressing multiple keys at once is often important and (apparently) impossible with this config. Definitely a surprise that no one implemented it to this level though
@@Rachano There's a toggle in the Razer settings. So you don't have to have it enabled all the time. You can also change which keys have snap turned on.
banning is gonna make zero difference; now that wooting and razer have done this, plenty of other companies will eventually come out w their own version
@@tommihommi1 correct me if im wrong but isnt why this is is so good is the dyanmic actuation point? how would they integrate that into a script, and it wouldnt work on just any keyboard
It definitely is detectable. If a player NEVER overlaps inputs and there also is frequently zero delay between switching inputs they are 100% using this.
@@JTH-xl1kd in the 'arms race' we're still trying to solve how to remove people with 5000:1 K/D and 480% HS accuracy from leaderboards, so there are probably bigger problems to tackle
@@johnsmith-fk7fw when cs2 released, there were 100's of people with 95% winrate on premier pretty much rage hacking. took them months to ban even the most obvious (100% winrate) cheaters. 7 billion dollar company btw
This is called SOCD (simultaneous opposite cardinal direction) cleaning and it's a problem that fighting games have been dealing with for a long time especially since some characters require you to hold one direction and then flick in another to perform certain moves. Generally it's been decided that both methods are tournament legal in most cases, but generally the ability to override the directions like this is on it's way out in favor of having the inputs cancel out (as they do already in CS by default). Also, this is detectable pretty easily from replays by simply checking the amount of times they perfectly switch directions in one frame
Yeah, in fighting games this was also solved by games being more ready for this kind of thing. Like street fighter making it so micro walks need a certain amount of frames before they start building back drive meter. Or the game handling and left + right to neutral instead of letting the controller send both like in SFV. The answer in my opinion for FPS games is to institute changes to the game itself that attempt to balance this. Either by putting in movement acceleration enough that everyone is essentially capped at unassisted human levels.
@@lockevalentine997 In the end you're only solving it by changing the skill ceiling of the game. It has no effect on whether you are given the advantage that programs or hardware give you, it only brings those with the advantage's ability lower and closer to the maximum skill level those without the advantage are likely to be able to reach. It's not really a "resolution" or a "fix" to the problem and more like a splint to those who don't have the advantage available to them. Those with the advantage will still 100% have an easier time playing the game compared to those without it. It's like trying to cap framerates to favor players with worse PCs by capping it at 60fps or so. Those with better PCs will still have an easier time playing at 60FPS because their framerates are more stable. That's just a comparison ofc, not the same issue at hand, because the advantage hall-effect switches give you is still even better than in the comparison I just made, but it should convey the point.
@@AmiciCherno Yes but it is at least a basically 'free' step they could take towards countering the advantage these have and then we can see how it ends up fairing. My point was rather that this was a game-side change that could be made and have almost no negative impacts on players not using this while still dampening the advantage gained from using it. TBH i have no clue whether it would be enough of a fix but it would at least be a strong and easy first step to make.
@@lockevalentine997 Probably, and while it would be annoying, it might be necessary in the short term as you said. In the future, I imagine that these switches will eventually become the new normal and what we are using right now will be considered “dated” or “really old” like box-spring switches are to us now today.
Has this board received updates since you last reviewed it? I remember you mentioning its not quite as responsive as the wooting, with a longer keystroke return distance. Are they more comparable now?
@@dansku. frfr, i think you can watch a video titled "Razer's new keyboard is basically cheating." or something like that from Optimus Prime, or whatever the channel name is, that might help shed some light on why it's being discussed.
@@dansku. And why is it considered cheating as the video title and the video intro suggest? It just improves the performance on the interface between human reaction and the action you want to pull of in the game. Let me guess, its just clickbait for more views to call it "cheating", right? Because the script he is referring to, which replicates the counter-strafe possibilities on the keyboard is something that "wasn't" allowed in CS, so he is talking about the past. And if I research through the internet, It seems to me that such script was not even banned at all in the past. Am I wrong?
Wooting has publicly stated that they feel that is the difference between cheating and not cheating, and so they said that Razer's version of this won't be something they do. Edit: Dude beneath me claiming I'm wrong misunderstands what I'm saying here. I'm not saying Wooting doesn't have their own version of this, just that theirs works differently (you know, as optimum literally states in the dang video) and that they stated on their Twitter that they view the Razer version as cheating and that theirs is subtly different In a way that is not cheating because the input is not put in for you, you still have to push it down further than the other key to turn the one key off. They said they are inherently against what razer is doing here. Edit 2: aaaaaand Wooting went back on what they said, as of today. They saw the public outcry for them to implement a true null bind feature, and made a poll asking if that was what people wanted. They overwhelmingly got the response of "yes, we want it", and so they awkwardly went back on what they said, even though they publicly condemned Razer's feature as hardware-assisted cheating, and talked at great length about how they care deeply about the integrity of competitive gaming. In any event, they have the opportunity to do something very funny here by calling it snappy tappy.
I think there is a big difference between these two technologies. If we try to define what would count as "cheating" I would say it is when software overrides or modifies human input to improve your performance. This is of course not a very detailed definition but will do for what I am going to explain. Wootings Rapid Trigger technology doesn't modify the human input, it simply reacts faster. The exact moment you start retracting the button the key press deactivates the key. In the case of the Razer Snap Tap technology we are talking about modifying the human input. You are still holding down the key, you do not even need to begin to retract it, and as soon as you press a new key software overrides the input to give you a performance boost. Now technically one could say that Wootings keyboard also is modified by software, as the keyboard uses magnetic switches the keyboard constantly reads the input and defines what the different keystrokes and forces applied will do. This could be used for cheating but I in my opinion I don't think Rapid Trigger counts as it only reacts faster to the already performed human input. (An example of cheating would be the recent osu! drama, where Wooting software was used to make one button only trigger during full release instead of press, making alternating key presses easy while simply mashing both keys simultaneously).
Alternative perspective: The human input could be considered to be the change in inputs: Pressing the new key often is the human input to change direction. Waiting for the additional input of retracting the prior key is a limitation of technology, and is a slower reaction. The Razer Snap Tap acts as reacting properly to human input by delivering the input of the different direction. In this way, neither are cheating. For it to change your direction without your input -- that would be the point of cheating.
I do not agree with your statement, by that logic any combination of inputs would be impossible. It would not let you combine multiple key presses to combo skills, hold-chrouch + move, etc. Then you would have to make it situational for certain keys only, in which case it wouldn't be far off from scripting since you are just automating certain tasks for frame perfect inputs.
Yeah, that's why it's pretty stupid to lump some of these into "automated input" when it's just a different interpretation of what counts as a pressed button.
There are two inputs from any button on a keyboard: press and release. Making one key responsible for anything other than its two inputs should be considered scripting and be bannable if it gives you advantage. Isn't it as simple as that?
Honestly I'm surprised its taken this long for nulls to be added to keyboards since movement nerds like me have known about it for years upon years and have known just how overpowered it can be.
omg its skripe. When new video, babe? But, yeah I'm also surprised it took so long for something like this to come out on a keyboard because they've been basically mini computers for years now.
exactly and I hate how there is pushback against it. If we really cared only about player only skill then we would still be using trackballs or even just the keyboard to aim and move.
Trackmania would be an interesting game to try this out in. Wiggles and instant steering changes are a big part of certain tracks and tricks, as is rapid steering tapping for keyboard players looking to have smooth steering.
@iamc24 Midori is the most high profile lately, but that was about keeping a set steering percentage. I can't think of if there was a high-profile wiggle controversy lately or not, but this would definitely be another instant "peripheral calibration software" incident for sure.
rapid trigger and I believe also this feature are being used already in Trackmania to press and release brake faster during ice slides, it's done by most of the top players
This overwatch movement is actually possible on the wooting currently btw if you use Joystick inputs (since the game accepts simultaneous controller and keyboard inputs). There are 2 ways you can choose SOCD handling, adding the magnitude of both inputs (so if you press A for 50% and D for 25% simultaneously, the resulting output will be 25% on A) or what they call "snappy joystick." This uses whatever maximum value is being pressed, so if you press A for 75% and D for 76%, then you'll get the full 76% D input. The setting is found under "Gamepad Response." Click on "Advanced Settings" by the analog curve and make sure "Snappy Joystick" is checked. The SOCD handling of this (which only matters when both keys are bottomed out simultaneously essentially) is last input wins, so if you bottom out A, then bottom out D, you'll get a full D press and can do a similar hold A and spam D input to get no dead time jiggles. Other benefits of using joystick input on overwatch are things like 8 way dash abilities become full 360-degree options (Tracer blink, lifeweaver dash, etc.), and a more intuitive feel with some abilities such as Reinhadt charge. Instead of having to tap and release a direction for charge over and over again because you don't want that full input for a precise turn, you could just half-press A or D. 8 way dash abilities take practice and the high-speed nature of tracer makes it pretty impossible to implement mid-fight awkward blinks, but I personally find very slight micro adjustments with soldiers run and full control over Moira's fade (you can do a half press and get very slow movement speed with it) to be useful.
Thanks for the write up!! Been wanting the wooting for overwatch movement specifically for a while and I cant believe there are so many hero specific techs that are possible on a keyboard now. Good to know that the functionality is actually native to the game.
In the osu community, a player named cloutiful did recreate a feature similar to this using Wooting's dynamic keystroke and it was actually ruled as cheating.
I remember 16:9 monitors were banned in Warcraft 3 for the longest time for an "unfair advantage" they gave compared to old 4:3 ones. My prediction is that new keyboard tech will become new normal and skill ceiling would just drift into other areas.
I think the games will simply change the movement mechanics and patch out the advantage. What's the point in even having the mechanic if it only punishes players with normal keyboards?
@ryan.crosby "whats the point of even allowing widescreen if it just punishes people who are still on standard?" thats not how innovation works, in a few years this will be a standard feature on keyboards just like every other feature that your modern set up has
@@MrCactuar13 someone made every standard first and profited wildly just because, for a time, they were the only ones selling the newest technology. its inevitable that other companies adopt this idea but in the few months razor is the only producer they will earn many times the rnd cost. not to mention its great for any company to have a reputation of making the newest and best so the profit made in branding alone more than makes up for development cost. also this is mostly a software thing so it was probably relatively inexpensive to develop.
Basically, same thing happenned with this Simultaneous Opposite Cardinal Directions activation in the Fighting Game Community when the controller "Hitbox" came out
could always do that on any controller with a stick and dpad, and still can while hitbox is forced to SOCD clean, despite most games doing it themselves anyways. Bit shit tbh
This feature seems more like a Last Input SOCD cleaner than an SOCD input (after all, being able to press left and right strafe at the same time is already normal for FPS games, and already causes a result equal to not doing anything at all, unlike some fighting games which could cause you to walk forward and block at the same time).
@@potato_the_pig5757no he's right. Broski, who is high level pro in SF6, made a video regarding why the PS5 controller might be the best controller for SF, with one of those reasons being that PS allows you to remap either left stick or dpad to right stick, taking advantage of lack of SOCD cleaning and exceptions made for pad players in controller rulesets. You'll also notice most rulesets don't disallow pad despite lack of SOCD cleaning and inputs mapped to multiple buttons just because it's the default.
Tbh was dealing with this 14+ years ago on console. FPS players were modding controllers for multiple imputs, like for example firing so quickly you skip frames
really funny how wooting announced it months ago and then razer just publishes the same thing before they do (although the rappy snappy beta is available for wooting as of 4 days ago), as you've said it's not entirely the same thing but I think wooting will just update it so the user can choose which version to use
@@R0x0r And that's not true, Wooting is currently waiting for reaction from esports orgs, they already have a working implementation, should it be allowed it'll be added
I've never watched before but I want to compliment on your presentation, production, and presence. I was also really happy you pointed out the null-canceling movement scripts in TF2 and CS, showed you know your stuff.
this guy is the GOAT. cracked fps gamer, has a sick sports car, and his production is on another level. not to mention the lengths this guy goes to explain and test all the stuff he's talking about.
As an Overwatch player, I sort of play the opposite way. I actually tend to smack both A and D down and lift up the direction I don't want to move in, so I need the overlap to work. I don't know why, I don't think many other Overwatch players are doing what I'm doing, but that's what I naturally landed on and peaked in the top 10-ish percent of players with.
@Sc5ch then let devs know that you want "controlled" movement mechanics, because the hardware IS going this direction. These things evolve over time and improved accuracy in inevitable, no matter how it's achieved. Devs would have to build limits into the software, but they need customer input to know that's what you want.
Always nice to see TF2 mentioned in videos. In RGL we explicitly allow null-movement scripts. I don't think it's an issue for TF2, but I think that's going to come down to that fast movement is generally emphasized so the micro-changes that this keyboard (and the script) allows isn't a gamechanger. It would be interesting to see how it develops with other games, even in games that focus on micro-movement like CS I imagine that it'll become more common, especially if it becomes a general standard on keyboards since there won't be a way to avoid it.
Its painfully clear when a scout has null movement scripts though. It’s banned in many scenes in tf2 because it does provide a clear advantage even if its not game breaking
@@Skeptical-rf8ou every movement server bans null movement scripts as they provide an unfair advantage with your strafes, such as in bhop, and surf. It has been up for debate multiple times as an allowable script in etf2l, but the general consensus is that it doesn't provide a clear benefit because it also hurts your movement. I am of the opinion that I am worse for it because I don't just strafe with A/D and having it kills my strafes due to the snapping. But there's a breed of ground strafe scouts that have gotten really good at it. I'm not new to TF2 or the competitive scene, but you didn't know that and it's fine
Wooting 1 hour ago just released this exact same technology (Not Rappy Snappy, this is called SOCD) that the Razer keyboard has as a result of this video. Wooting's implementation however is alot more customisable AND is backwards compatible with all of their old keyboards 🤣 I am loving this product/feature arms race, only the consumer wins Edit: Grammar fixes
The video introducing Wootings SOCD is so good; this video is on & the background, & "oh no, optimum, WHAT DID YOU DO? The rioters are [unintelligible] at the house!"
Watching and typing this as I'm on my Wooting 60 with the Razer DeathAdder V2 that I heavily researched and purchased due to your comprehensive review on it. I want to say Razer has come a long way since my first product, the Naga. I've tried other keyboards, headphones, mice, and I really really abuse my stuff. The only thing that has kept up with my hard use has been Razer products and I've seen that they're only getting better. Obviously if you go with a company that specializes certain products like webcams specifically there's hard competition but Razers product still holds up for the price point. So far a lot of the products that is a "want" and I guess now including the keyboard are all Razer. And like I said I'm typing this on my Wooting which I specifically got for it's actuation speed, which Razer has addressed a flaw with. It's just weird how I try other products and always find myself going back to Razer.
Well, that's just how it's played competitively lol. However I do feel the aim assist is way too strong, I wish there was none. But due to the casual nature of cod and now crossplay it's even stronger. So strong there's a option to turn it down thank God. @@brokenlegs_tv
@@jasfx7241hey man I reckon there's a lot of people who could turn off aim assist and give pc players trouble lol. There's only AA because controller takes way more skill. Using a mouse is very intuitive, just point n click lol.
@@Bambam- I mean unless you are a average Joe Shmoe that uses a hp laptop for work yes the controller users will absolutely destroy that guy but if you come across some tech savys that use keyboard and mouse for years good luck on that buckko.
@@battlecruisernathat’s impossible with certain characters. If your character is hit scan, and with a certain rate of fire it can literally be impossible to influence your chance to hit, AKA there isn’t skill, you basically just have to hope that he’s on the side you’re aiming on when your rate of fire would hitscan the target, this would cripple a widow, Ashe, or Mcree character
@@ndnddndndnnodemnnnddndndn I have had 4 razer keyboards every one of them had a problem not even a month in. The mice are just as bad, especially the wireless ones.
Yeah, it's kind of fascinating that tf2 (and CS to some extent) is the only still relevant fps game that lets you freely script out your controls, along with many things
I would use null movement binds on CS but I don't because sometimes it's useful to use both keys to together to cancel out the momentum and stop, and having null binds would stop me from hiding behind cover with that strat
if game configs give you an option to add this i think it's fine. but i see hardware/software based solutions for this as a form of input automation. that's just a personal take. curious to see what others think of it if more people start using this
It removes the skill gab between people who can strafe and those who cant. Lets say a pro is a really good aimer but cant strafe to save his life, uses this keyboard which than again gives him the edge over someone who can strafe better, because not only his strafes are fixed, his reaction time decreases. Which makes him someone who used hardware to be better, nothing about his skill changed only the hardware. This is just a hack imo.
@@marrchy2682 using am adjustable DPI wireless lightweight mouse with bindable side buttons is just a hack if you somehow had it at a tournament 25 years ago. If this becomes common at a hardware level, then there is nothing any developer can really do about it detection wise and it will just become normal. Leagues might still make rules about it for awhile, but for everyone else, it'll be normal.
I played a game called elsword that needed an anti-ghosting keyboard to perform certain movements. This isn't new, it's just something FPS players wouldn't think of.
For those of you who don't play CS or FPS games in general, 60-70ms is genuinely massive. At high levels, most fights are literally over in one bullet. It is not uncommon to encounter an enemy and one of you is dead within 2-300ms. Shaving 70ms off of that is huge.
yeah obviously 60-70 ms is fucking huge in games where headshots are a one-hit kill and walking at a snail's pace for more than 0.000000000000002 nanoseconds adds so much reticle bloom that the bullet leaves the barrel of the gun at a fucking 45 degree angle
3:19 optimum's effort in this video should be appreciated a lot more, he has some of the most innovative testing methodology despite being much smaller than giant media groups like LMG. I'm so glad I subbed to him.
Can snap tap be enabled just for specific keys? I ask this question because for movement keys is great but for other keys it would be detrimental, like weapon switching. You don't want your movement to be affected when you press keybinds for weapon switching, reloading, etc.
that's sick i would prefer my last pressed strafing input to be the recognized input, that feels right. as an old bastard though, i hate how many multiplayer shooters are wiggle-fests. going to go take my nap now
This has been available on many Leverless Arcade controllers for fighting games for a long time, it's called "Last Priority SOCD (Simultaneous Opposing Cardinal Directions) cleaning". If you have a Leverless Arcade Controller with the GP2040 Chip you can configure the SOCD settings in any way you want, on the fly with a Hotkey. There ist Last Priority SOCD cleaning (same as the Razer Keyboard in this instance: the controller sends the Cardinal Direction that was pressed last if both are pressed at the same time), No Cleaning (The controller sends both directions to the application and then the Game decides what happens when UP+DOWN or LEFT+ RIGHT is pressed together, this is what all keyboards had until now), Up-Priority (UP+DOWN = Controller sends UP to the Application, LEFT+RIGHT it send NEUTRAL) and SOCD Neutral (Controller always send NEUTRAL of both opposing cardinal directions are pressed).
@@vezquex Agree, although I think they coded it like that on purpose. IMO I think it should just be an option in the game what Kind of SOCD behavior you want.
@@vezquex It's coded that way on purpose, precisely to prevent easy 100% perfect counter-strafing, which makes good counter-strafing one of the skills you need to learn and practice to be good at the game.
@@blackboxconsumer41 That's the point: game design doesn't incorporate solely features that advantage you, they should also handicap you in some ways, to require/demand more skill.
@@rRevanYT Ah, cool. I'm really looking forward to a comparison of the Razer vs. Wooting and the snappy tappy feature. Razer will probably be better than a lot of other gaming keyboards with their new feature, but I'm still really interested in how much better Wooting is going to be in comparison.
3:43 i just guessed it would be 15 to 25 but 60 to 70 is actually insane. That's half of the reaction time of an average pro. Imagine an average pro has an one third lowered reaction to action time.
With a hard baked in 50ms overlap, so if a pro movement (think forest from csgo bhop) did it, the result would be much less. Forest was always accused of cheating for his almost perfect strafe sync, so its not necessarily an advantage, there's a soft limit.
He added 50ms of overlay to simulate human error. This means on wooting the machine was pressing A and D at the same time for 50ms, so no shit razer was faster by 60-70ms 😂
@@MiscoJix bro 50 ms is way to low to account for even average miss presses. it should be atleast 100 ms. 50 is in favor of other keyboard, also wooting has generally a better reaciton time then most keyboards. so probably even 110 ms
One the reasons I quit the game, you literally have to dedicate hours just to aim practice to defeat certain characters and I just don’t have time for that
And if you go in the comments you can see the "competitor keyboard" in the commercial can already do this too. Thank god too since razer's products suck quality wise in my experience. Especially mice and headphones at least, not sure about keyboards.
Using OW as an exemple isn't that relevant, OW doesn’t have movement inacuracy and the strafing is based on a longer timer not just left right very fast (medium hitbox)
u have finalmouse and razer thanks to that u have under 60grams 8khz wireless mouse with optical switches and perfect sensors. There is little to improve at this point
Definitely detectable. Both pressing and releasing a key sends a keystroke. This feature essentially sends the press and release keystroke at the same instant, which would be impossible to do consistently by manual means.
6:08 it most definitely is bannable if against the terms. the amount of analytics devs have to see what exactly it is you're doing and how repeatable it is is EXTREMELY easy to detect and if they determine its not allowed you will be banned.
A side note to whether keyboards like this will be detectable: While it changes behavior on hardware level, it is still too perfect of an input. You can easily collect this data and analize it for mistakes-to-perfects ratios (for example by a trained AI). If the probability curve looks suspicious the player has likely cheated. It's all probability of course and it could lead to false positives being detected, although anticheat measures already operate on this basis - you can never truly prove if a player is cheating if you don't check his entire setup, but you can still be highly suspicious of him and ban him based on these suspicions. Another thing worth mentioning is "what if these keyboards add some random mistakes here and there to bypass the detection?". Well, bad news here. If they do a good enough job with that then there will be no way to tell if someone is truly skilled or if they were using this "doping".
It's crazy in a lot of other games too. For example, consider Destiny 2's 340 RPM pulse rifles. They have better accuracy when you're stationary or do very little movement. The difference is noticeable. But since D2 is a movement heavy shooter, this forces you to either have perfect positioning and peeking on every situation, or to lane. With this, you can essentially cheat the system to reset accuracy as you counter-strafe, meaning you can now use a 340 pulse as if it was, say, a Hand Cannon.Thing is, the fastest killing HC has a 0.87 TTK. The fastest killing PR has a 0.67 TTK. This is HUGE.
Using an MMO mouse in MMO pvp gives you a huge advantage. Basically removes the need to stretch the fingers of your left hand all over the keyboard, and ups your apm dramatically. This did make me wonder if the razer naga (or simailar mice) was pay2win.
This always has been the case - you want to play at highest levels you need the best peripherals hardware at the minimum and a good PC for FPS. Nothing new here and actual skills are still required to preform best with the best hardware.
If anything we have been slowly moving there for 30 years, how is this any different than a sub 50g 2.4ghz mouse/high frequency monitor/computer that can run max framerate etc. I believe this will become a standard feature in decent gaming keyboards down the line,
It's all a matter of personal preference. But I like hall effect switches much more than I have ever liked mechanical keys. Wooting's Rapid Trigger feature had already set the keyboard apart from any that I used before.
Assuming that all keys are programmed identically, I don't see the issue. A overriding D is fine as long as A also overrides W. Also tab overrides alt. The actual problem comes from programming individual keys to behave differently from one another, not from having a keyboard that only ever gives a single output.
In fighting game hardware we call this Asynchronous Horizontal SOCD (Simultaneous Opposing Cardinal Directions). Wonder if Razer revisited this concept since they recently got into arcade stick hardware.
Overwatch's lack of character acceleration is an interesting choice, and I really wonder if they'd keep it if they were starting again. They actually talked about it in an update where they increased the hitbox of a lot of projectiles, they wanted to make it easier to hit shots, but they couldn't consider adding movement accel as it'd make characters feel sluggish (compared to what everyone knows). But with stuff like this, it's just absurdly hard to hit. In terms of whether it actually makes a difference, it really does if your opponent is aiming for headshots
The lack of inertia in OW movement was one of the biggest reasons I dropped the game. The jittery instant strafing looked and felt so bad, it really made the game feel amateurish.
Null canceling movement configs have been a thing in source games for over a decade now using native non-cheat console commands, you can do this on any keyboard in CS or TF2
you obviously still can because W and D aren’t counteractive movement keys. Pressing W and D doesn’t neutralize your momentum like pressing W and S or A and D would.
Never thought about putting last input type priority style SOCD cleaning in a keyboard but it makes so much sense for this. With fighting games there are some gams at have specific SOCD rulesets and in fighting games you can design how the game responds to it (for newer releases) but not sure if that would work with fps
This is a specific type of SOCD though as it's different depending on the game. In Tekken, SOCD is = to Neutral, which is how it's worked in fps games too. This video is talking about last input SOCD which, I think they coulda built it into the game if they wanted it to be a thing. Since this is now here on a hardware level, things may change on the game's side too.
In modern games, it's up to the software to handle this, but for older games, some forms of SOCD cleaning were "legit" and others were considered cheating. Allowing left+right considered cheating in old games, because it's impossible to do on a pad or stick. Modern games should clean it themselves. Left+Right = Null is considered OK, but still allows for quick tapping to change from moving in one direction null. Priority of one button (i.e. up+down = up) is considered OK. Last input (i.e. what we see here) is usually considered not legit in older games, but up to modern games to clean.
Except for fighting games pressing left and right at the same time has to result in a neutral input or you are in fact cheating. A hitbox that doesn't give you neutral when doing this would have a huge advantage over other controller options like sticks that have a physical limit to how fast they can go from left to right.
To me this just seems like it's a more accurate reflection of the users inputs. You only move left when the user presses left, and you only move right when the user lifts their finger or pressed the opposite button. So it's still a 1 to 1 mapping of user input to computer response, just without the lag.
@@R0x0r this is a really important piece of info the dude intentionally left out in the video to make ppl ask and generate comments. Seriously all those charts and mechanisms but he didn't mention this when talking about the actuation mechanisms?
What if you’re trying to move at a 45 degree angle for a second? You’re holding D, say, and want to tap W to move sideways but instead you just move straight forward? That doesn’t sound good
wdym, the opposite of w is s, so instead, if you had 4 fingers lets say, it would allow you to insta switch from A+W to S+D if you wanted to go from 135 degrees to 315 instantly, but going from A+W to D+W would be no problem, you wouldn't stop going forward after clicking D. I am guessing also that this snap tap feature is only on wasd.
3:40 That 60-70 ms means exactly nothing, because you chose the exact timing of the overlap. What's more interesting is that you set 50 seconds of overlap, yet its somehow 10 ms faster than what you set. Also, why would the exact value vary by double (10-20 ms)? There are some curious things happening in your rig which are either unexplained (so far) or uncontrolled. What's the difference between the razor with and without the update? What's the difference between the two keyboards when the update isn't installed? I bet its still 10-20 ms.
It’s genuinely crazy how much effect wooting has had on the keyboard market.
is it same as rappy snappy
best keyboard on the market ngl
Analog switches were an idea before Wooting, they just evolved it and mainstreamed it. Razer started the innovation, that's fact and history so thank Razer, regardless of wootings dialed in
@@BizzareSaint its a little different like rappy snappy, he explains it in the video
They literally did nothing special 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The idea of null binds started in 1.6 so its funny how this is like 20 years old but built into keyboards now
oh why hello, cs banana man
fr
Am I supposed to read your comment right after skins monkey?
shotout to hns community
null binds stayed relevant in csgo hns & kz communities too
Imagine getting back from a nine-to-five and deciding to play some OW, and see someone shaking like they're having a grand mal seizure clap everyone around you.
OW is a VS multiplayer game. What can you do? You could play Animal Crossing.
@@cipollino4754what an absolutely garbage take
@@ReefMonkeyI've heard children with better takes
Me who comes back from a six-to-six : 💀
@@cipollino4754 Oh noooo, not everyone who plays this particular video game is as try-hard as you are. How dare they play casually!
CS2 has just banned this feature, beware. Citation from the update log "If you have a keyboard that includes an input-automation feature (e.g., "Snap Tap Mode"), be sure to disable the feature before you join a match in order to avoid any interruption to your matches."
Even Rapid Trigger can be a problem from now on
I’m curious if they will be sticking to banning people for it. Especially since they don’t even ban people who are blatantly cheating. And by cheating I mean getting over 70 kills in a game and killing the whole enemy team in no time at all every round. 😂 we don’t run into them much but out of the 5 we’ve found since CS2 came out all five are still not Vac banned. We save the profiles on a Google doc and every time we talk about cheating in CS we end up looking at them to check. So far none of them have been banned.
yea instant VAC on the account
@@trackz2cold It doesn't give you a VAC ban, it just kicks you from the server.
How could it possibly be detected though? Like he said, it's hardware level.
"At a hardware level" is becoming extremely ambiguous as hardware components become microcomputers themselves. Keyboards like WOOTING and Razer Hunstman have full-blown CPUs, RAM, and storage inside. Unambiguously allowing any "hardware level input" by defining the cutoff point at the driver also means that explicitly banned complex macros and scripts must be allowed if they run on the Keyboard's CPU instead of the gaming PC's. Esports should really get ahead of this by creating clear guidelines around what is and isn't "raw input" or we're just going to see more and more monitors giving extra-sensory information and mice/keyboards correcting aim and movement in completely "legal" ways.
Of course on the casual side we're cooked, no way to detect and stop these things, but in sanctioned tournaments they have a lot more control over what players can use
This is all subject to Rule 0: Don't make unenforceable rules. They just make you look ineffective and incompetent.
@@electrified0 There are plenty of ways to counter it, all of which will likely reduce the skill gap but will make these new features effectively pointless. Proper momentum stops the strafe spam, move speed tied to accuracy prevents instant 100% accuracy on keypress, input detection can be used to detect how quickly keys are being pressed in order to delay or ignore spam. It will either be accepted (unlikely, it's horrible for new players to go against and will kill games), nerfed heavily, or patched out.
If it connects via USB it has a microcontroller in it and in some cases they have more performance and features and in some cases less. Therefore making a rule in regards to raw input is kind of bullshiting around the problem.
Anti cheat installed in your keyboard next 💀
lmao that strafing in OW looked so insane
that kind of strafe just makes it easier to underaim on hitscan, real
That new hero has a movement boost when flying
this movement with one of those skinny characters with already broken hitboxes (kiriko, ana, baby dva) sounds like hell to fight
@@maumaznot really you can use that movement against them
@@yyniuniu new hero? you mean echo? she's 4 years old
edit: nvm its Juno im fucking stupid
"Press Q + E to activate"
This kb user: shit
kb user trying to copy and paste:
5:45 it activates for specific keys and has a hotkey toggle
In reality, KB user can do better than having to press two keys at once. Keybind to any key you want
@@dragoni_penguin "ALRIGHT YOU WANNA LEARN HOW TO DO A FRICKING COPY PASTE? HIGHLIGHT TEXT, CONTROL KEY, C KEY, CONTROL KEY, V KEY! KEEP UP THE RHYTHM!"
It's only for WASD movement, nothing else ;)
CS2 just updated, it now kicks you out of the game if this is detected. Kicks, no ban.
LAME
@@williamcase426 cheating is lame.
So those keyboards could get you kicked from the game ?
@@wika1117 if you have that feature enabled then yes
@@emphathicc4832 having a good keyboard shouldn't get you banned
This was banned in fighting games. There are rules that simultaneous opposite cardinal directions *must* produce no action within the controllers firmware settings. I'm sure same will be done for other games.
Modern fighting games also manually filter SOCD too
Nah. Fighting games are exclusively run by nerds, the input plays a huge part of gameplay and they tend to play consoles.
FPS is just P2W and I'm cool with that. Don't bring a V6 to a V8 drag race.
@@idrinktapwater6174 ratio
@@idrinktapwater6174 In CS this keyboard will carry you from a silver 5, to a silver 5. It really is not that big of a deal. Sure it is cool and nice, but nothing out of this world.
Not really moderateble
Not sure about other games but this a very common bind in Team Fortress 2; so common in fact that the most popular performance config sets it up for you by default
Yeah! TF2 was how I first learned about null movement binds too. It really should be more commonplace, though I could see how it might break some games if they weren't designed for it
Playing without it is just pain
being a tf2 veteran and havent played fps in a long time... i thought this was normal setting too for everybody else
Yeah I’ve played with null movement in tf2 since I got the game
its also common in CS2 HNS. I had null cfg in cs go
I think its wild that a free script doing this that anyone can use is considered cheating but a $100+ keyboard only some player have is seen as fine
pay to win 🤷🏾♂
There are many games where using the Wootings analogue controls are banned. In many games it doesn't do much, anyways. This is definitely cheating, after all it is just software that gives you an advantage you should not have.
@@tjmukwevho behold, the real world
straight up p2w LMFAO
it's because the keyboard maker paid $1bil to shut up the gaming leagues, and let people buy their keyboard 🤣🤣
I scratch my head trying to understand how it is any fun playing against extremely jiggly targets over and over anymore. I stopped playing competitive shooter games a long time ago due to cheating and other things, but now I really question if it's even worth a damn if all everyone does is hard-jiggle all the time and play an extreme game of whack-a-mole. Just doesn't look like fun anymore but instead an extreme source of annoyance.
Yeah I can imagine how enemy players trying to be better in order to win can be annoying in a COMPETETIVE shooter.
wait what
@@VancouI think there should be a realistic form of movement in any competitive shooter. A hard left-and-right manoeuvre that instantly goes from 100% left to 100% right feels extremely artificial and too easy to exploit. I think the old method of having to control your actions by properly timing the keybuttons should be hard-limited into the engine and not dependent on hardware technology. It makes the game extremely unpredictable when one enemy uses the proper method and another walks around like a robocop.
At some point, they are enlarging their hitbox xD
It's quite easy to fix from a developer point of view, it's just that certain specific games have allowed this mechanically. Mainly that games like CS have no inertia, whereas Valorant has more or less fully solved the issue.
Lucky for you Counter strike banned it. And I expect other big comp games to follow quickly.
People from the fighting game community: "ah shit, here we go again"
This shit would go so hard in a hitbox lol
@@TheTruestPiano yeah it's why I play FGs with my smash box 😂
That's the whole reason SOCD cleaners had to be implemented in leverless sticks and made it so holding left + right goes to neutral was the legal standard
@@TheTruestPiano its kinda last input - Banned in tournaments
It would be harder to argue against the keyboard that has a physical lever to control your strafing inputs compared to one that does it in semiconductor logic.
Wow, a day ago Wooting asked the community if they should add Snap Tap and they already added it lol
Wooting’s amazing
yeah honestly insane lol
Where?
@@federossi5070 On Wooting YT channel they have videos for setting it up.
Oh cool, so I can do the same thing as shown in this video on a wooting? That would be perfect since I'd prefer to have a wooting over a razer
This seems very similar to the SOCD issue that came up in the fighting game community when leverless controllers started becoming more widespread. That got so bad that lots of official tournaments now require you leverless controllers be set up to "clean" SOCD such that pressing two different directions results in no direction being pressed at all (or only one is considered pressed) and I wouldn't be surprised if a similar mandate were used for actual FPS tournaments.
Thought the same thing, SOCD cleaning and Hitbox problems arrived to the FPS community lmao. I wonder if they'll ever get something similar to the Hitbox Cross-Up controversy
Yea this reminded me of hitbox, heh.
Nah I disagree, I don't see any other logical course of action than to implement this movement behaviour in games by default. CS (for instance) is already way too competitive outside of tournaments.
The very moment they mentioned what Razer's new tech was I just thought "Oh that's just a form of SOCD cleaning with bias to the last key pressed. Why is this new?" I can imagine this being really good for FPS games yet for basically any other game it feels like it might cause some jank. Especially if it's coded to bias any key instead of just WS and AD.
That was exactly what I thought of as a Snackbox user lol.
Competitive FPS has been limiting player accuracy during movement for decades now because it’s “realistic”, but simultaneously allowing people to zero-out momentum or even fully change direction in milliseconds. Like, pick a lane.
"pros" really are just cheaters, they want the basic mechanics to limit other people while they know the secret cheats to do better, and unfortunately their voice is the loudest so they get to push everyone out of the games
permanently banning the top 1% skilled players would do wonders for online gaming
by competitive fps do you just mean cs? 2 decades ago competitive included arena shooters, quake and ut never penalized movement
in fighting games this is called socd (simultaneous opposite cardinal directions) and if pressing right and left doesn't equal neutral like when your not using snap tap, your controller is considered banned.
Is blizzard going to ban your keyboard though?
@@afriendofafriend5766They absolutely should. If you enable cheat software you should b banned regardless of what hardware level its being run at.
@@CommandoBlack123 It's not cheating tho
Yeah ig but i think if something is banned at a software level it should be banned at a hardware level if that makes sense @@Razumen
@@typerakalamies6237 Who's gonna ban it? 😂
"This seems like a nice keyboard! I might actually buy it."
*checks price*
"Ill keep my kd at 0.5 tyvm"
I spent $60 to order a "MaxxStick" this week. Can't wait for this thing to arrive. Not as cool as analog switches, but intuitive and MUCH cheaper!
It's just a USB joystick that sits below your spacebar at an angle.
@@noaag most people who competitively game use keyboards to avoid controllers/joysticks. buttons have consistent feedback (no partial left/right) and joysticks have flick back (flick the stick left, the elastics gonna snap back to the right when you release)
@@juliansanderson839it very much depends on the game. You're absolutely right when it comes to FPS games, but when it comes to top-down or 3rd person action, there's times where being able to move at 60° is absolutely necessary.
@@silasary i agree and here are more reasons it can be good within FPS games.
Since normal keyboards are digital input: you're at max move speed/accel or you're at a dead stop.
I put 700 hours or so in the FPS BattleBit in the last couple years, and it's seriously irritating how you can't walk slower, when you want to peek corners carefully. [Crouching and prone exist but changing stance is slow and ruins aim] (And like you said being able to move in 360⁰ with full aim control is HUGE!!)
Joystick or analog keys permits this. You know what analog keys CAN'T do? Put 4 directions of movement on one thumb and free up the 3 longest fingers on your left hand.
Grenade, Ping, sprint, equipment switching, whatever you want, you can get comfortable pushing without moving your fingers from home row / wasd. The potential is so high
For the record im buying it to play an mmo but im def trying it with shooters too.
this isn't even that expensive lol
Im surprised this isn't a standard setting on gaming keyboards. It seems so simple and similar to how other gaming products focus on tuning for gaming instead of office work like the computer's original design.
Probably not standard because pressing multiple keys at once is often important and (apparently) impossible with this config. Definitely a surprise that no one implemented it to this level though
@@Rachano There's a toggle in the Razer settings. So you don't have to have it enabled all the time. You can also change which keys have snap turned on.
I'm surprised the games themselves aren't programmed to do this automatically. This is so dumb tbh.
@@mrkiky your actually slow
@@souljaboy.6668 My actually slow what?
This is the best commercial for a keyboard I’ve ever seen
For real. An insane gimmick. Anyone using MX Silvers since 2016 can already do this stuff through muscle memory.
@@Aliothale its definitely not a gimmick lol
banning is gonna make zero difference; now that wooting and razer have done this, plenty of other companies will eventually come out w their own version
just allow it as a bind/script, putting it into the accessory firmware is silly
watch the video it is different from the wooting smh
It's trivial to ban anyone who has these clean strafing inputs
@@tommihommi1 correct me if im wrong but isnt why this is is so good is the dyanmic actuation point? how would they integrate that into a script, and it wouldnt work on just any keyboard
@@tommihommi1 It's hardware level, you can't just add this in software.
It definitely is detectable. If a player NEVER overlaps inputs and there also is frequently zero delay between switching inputs they are 100% using this.
Sure maybe you could spot if someone is using it, but no anti-cheat will detect this is what hes referring to.
i wouldnt worry about it with how bad the anticheat is
@@oryx070 Adding it would not be a hurdle by any means - cheating is an arms race, and this is a pointy stick not a nuke.
@@JTH-xl1kd in the 'arms race' we're still trying to solve how to remove people with 5000:1 K/D and 480% HS accuracy from leaderboards, so there are probably bigger problems to tackle
@@johnsmith-fk7fw when cs2 released, there were 100's of people with 95% winrate on premier pretty much rage hacking. took them months to ban even the most obvious (100% winrate) cheaters. 7 billion dollar company btw
This is called SOCD (simultaneous opposite cardinal direction) cleaning and it's a problem that fighting games have been dealing with for a long time especially since some characters require you to hold one direction and then flick in another to perform certain moves. Generally it's been decided that both methods are tournament legal in most cases, but generally the ability to override the directions like this is on it's way out in favor of having the inputs cancel out (as they do already in CS by default).
Also, this is detectable pretty easily from replays by simply checking the amount of times they perfectly switch directions in one frame
Yeah, in fighting games this was also solved by games being more ready for this kind of thing. Like street fighter making it so micro walks need a certain amount of frames before they start building back drive meter. Or the game handling and left + right to neutral instead of letting the controller send both like in SFV.
The answer in my opinion for FPS games is to institute changes to the game itself that attempt to balance this. Either by putting in movement acceleration enough that everyone is essentially capped at unassisted human levels.
@@lockevalentine997 In the end you're only solving it by changing the skill ceiling of the game. It has no effect on whether you are given the advantage that programs or hardware give you, it only brings those with the advantage's ability lower and closer to the maximum skill level those without the advantage are likely to be able to reach. It's not really a "resolution" or a "fix" to the problem and more like a splint to those who don't have the advantage available to them. Those with the advantage will still 100% have an easier time playing the game compared to those without it. It's like trying to cap framerates to favor players with worse PCs by capping it at 60fps or so. Those with better PCs will still have an easier time playing at 60FPS because their framerates are more stable. That's just a comparison ofc, not the same issue at hand, because the advantage hall-effect switches give you is still even better than in the comparison I just made, but it should convey the point.
Some games have banned the last priority SOCD. Only true neutral SOCD (L + R = N // U + D = N) is allowed in certain games now.
@@AmiciCherno Yes but it is at least a basically 'free' step they could take towards countering the advantage these have and then we can see how it ends up fairing. My point was rather that this was a game-side change that could be made and have almost no negative impacts on players not using this while still dampening the advantage gained from using it. TBH i have no clue whether it would be enough of a fix but it would at least be a strong and easy first step to make.
@@lockevalentine997 Probably, and while it would be annoying, it might be necessary in the short term as you said. In the future, I imagine that these switches will eventually become the new normal and what we are using right now will be considered “dated” or “really old” like box-spring switches are to us now today.
Has this board received updates since you last reviewed it? I remember you mentioning its not quite as responsive as the wooting, with a longer keystroke return distance. Are they more comparable now?
Wooting responded with an update to all their keyboards lmao
Why is everyone talking about the RAZER HUNTSMAN V3 PRO MINI when it came out in 2023?
@@haskell3702 i think its cause of the new feature the snap tap
@@dansku. frfr, i think you can watch a video titled "Razer's new keyboard is basically cheating." or something like that from Optimus Prime, or whatever the channel name is, that might help shed some light on why it's being discussed.
@@dansku. And why is it considered cheating as the video title and the video intro suggest? It just improves the performance on the interface between human reaction and the action you want to pull of in the game. Let me guess, its just clickbait for more views to call it "cheating", right? Because the script he is referring to, which replicates the counter-strafe possibilities on the keyboard is something that "wasn't" allowed in CS, so he is talking about the past. And if I research through the internet, It seems to me that such script was not even banned at all in the past. Am I wrong?
@@RuLeZ1988 Bro the first seconds of the video, he says "normal keyboards cannot do this". That's why it's considered cheating lmao
me with a laptop keyboard. "huh, neat stuff"
you can plug in a keyboard :)
facts i use a wooting 60he with my strix g18
me with kailh box jades. "huh, neat stuff"
(imagine an even clicker cherry mx blue)
fun fact, laptop keyboards already have very small travel, so they pretty much already doing what this keyboard does.
i ordered a wooting 60he for my msi gf76 a week ago, its coming tomorrow
It would be nice to see an update come to Wooting’s Rappy Snappy to toggle the priority between last pressed or furthest pressed input
you can bet that they are going to do that now that razer has demonstrated it gives you more of a competitive advantage
@@jordhan-net beta is live for it already, per their discord
@@jordhan-net Its a software thing too so they dont even need to release more keyboards
Wooting has publicly stated that they feel that is the difference between cheating and not cheating, and so they said that Razer's version of this won't be something they do.
Edit: Dude beneath me claiming I'm wrong misunderstands what I'm saying here. I'm not saying Wooting doesn't have their own version of this, just that theirs works differently (you know, as optimum literally states in the dang video) and that they stated on their Twitter that they view the Razer version as cheating and that theirs is subtly different In a way that is not cheating because the input is not put in for you, you still have to push it down further than the other key to turn the one key off. They said they are inherently against what razer is doing here.
Edit 2: aaaaaand Wooting went back on what they said, as of today. They saw the public outcry for them to implement a true null bind feature, and made a poll asking if that was what people wanted. They overwhelmingly got the response of "yes, we want it", and so they awkwardly went back on what they said, even though they publicly condemned Razer's feature as hardware-assisted cheating, and talked at great length about how they care deeply about the integrity of competitive gaming. In any event, they have the opportunity to do something very funny here by calling it snappy tappy.
@@fragehardt where did they say this?
I think there is a big difference between these two technologies. If we try to define what would count as "cheating" I would say it is when software overrides or modifies human input to improve your performance. This is of course not a very detailed definition but will do for what I am going to explain.
Wootings Rapid Trigger technology doesn't modify the human input, it simply reacts faster. The exact moment you start retracting the button the key press deactivates the key.
In the case of the Razer Snap Tap technology we are talking about modifying the human input. You are still holding down the key, you do not even need to begin to retract it, and as soon as you press a new key software overrides the input to give you a performance boost.
Now technically one could say that Wootings keyboard also is modified by software, as the keyboard uses magnetic switches the keyboard constantly reads the input and defines what the different keystrokes and forces applied will do. This could be used for cheating but I in my opinion I don't think Rapid Trigger counts as it only reacts faster to the already performed human input. (An example of cheating would be the recent osu! drama, where Wooting software was used to make one button only trigger during full release instead of press, making alternating key presses easy while simply mashing both keys simultaneously).
Alternative perspective: The human input could be considered to be the change in inputs: Pressing the new key often is the human input to change direction. Waiting for the additional input of retracting the prior key is a limitation of technology, and is a slower reaction. The Razer Snap Tap acts as reacting properly to human input by delivering the input of the different direction. In this way, neither are cheating. For it to change your direction without your input -- that would be the point of cheating.
I do not agree with your statement, by that logic any combination of inputs would be impossible. It would not let you combine multiple key presses to combo skills, hold-chrouch + move, etc. Then you would have to make it situational for certain keys only, in which case it wouldn't be far off from scripting since you are just automating certain tasks for frame perfect inputs.
Yeah, that's why it's pretty stupid to lump some of these into "automated input" when it's just a different interpretation of what counts as a pressed button.
There are two inputs from any button on a keyboard: press and release. Making one key responsible for anything other than its two inputs should be considered scripting and be bannable if it gives you advantage. Isn't it as simple as that?
Honestly I'm surprised its taken this long for nulls to be added to keyboards since movement nerds like me have known about it for years upon years and have known just how overpowered it can be.
omg its skripe. When new video, babe? But, yeah I'm also surprised it took so long for something like this to come out on a keyboard because they've been basically mini computers for years now.
@@AntiqueAntarctica he just dropped a video 2 days ago.
wsg
Okay but are nulls allowed?
exactly and I hate how there is pushback against it. If we really cared only about player only skill then we would still be using trackballs or even just the keyboard to aim and move.
Trackmania would be an interesting game to try this out in. Wiggles and instant steering changes are a big part of certain tracks and tricks, as is rapid steering tapping for keyboard players looking to have smooth steering.
this immediately brought to mind a potential repeat of the midori incident
@iamc24 Midori is the most high profile lately, but that was about keeping a set steering percentage. I can't think of if there was a high-profile wiggle controversy lately or not, but this would definitely be another instant "peripheral calibration software" incident for sure.
rapid trigger and I believe also this feature are being used already in Trackmania to press and release brake faster during ice slides, it's done by most of the top players
With this keyboard, you can make Riolu's inputs look real lmao
@@jordananderson2728 ah yes, the slow mo god
This overwatch movement is actually possible on the wooting currently btw if you use Joystick inputs (since the game accepts simultaneous controller and keyboard inputs). There are 2 ways you can choose SOCD handling, adding the magnitude of both inputs (so if you press A for 50% and D for 25% simultaneously, the resulting output will be 25% on A) or what they call "snappy joystick." This uses whatever maximum value is being pressed, so if you press A for 75% and D for 76%, then you'll get the full 76% D input. The setting is found under "Gamepad Response." Click on "Advanced Settings" by the analog curve and make sure "Snappy Joystick" is checked.
The SOCD handling of this (which only matters when both keys are bottomed out simultaneously essentially) is last input wins, so if you bottom out A, then bottom out D, you'll get a full D press and can do a similar hold A and spam D input to get no dead time jiggles. Other benefits of using joystick input on overwatch are things like 8 way dash abilities become full 360-degree options (Tracer blink, lifeweaver dash, etc.), and a more intuitive feel with some abilities such as Reinhadt charge. Instead of having to tap and release a direction for charge over and over again because you don't want that full input for a precise turn, you could just half-press A or D.
8 way dash abilities take practice and the high-speed nature of tracer makes it pretty impossible to implement mid-fight awkward blinks, but I personally find very slight micro adjustments with soldiers run and full control over Moira's fade (you can do a half press and get very slow movement speed with it) to be useful.
Thanks for the write up!! Been wanting the wooting for overwatch movement specifically for a while and I cant believe there are so many hero specific techs that are possible on a keyboard now. Good to know that the functionality is actually native to the game.
working in CS2 also if you add -joy to launch options
Loads up counterstrike 2 while watching this video, and as August 19th, 2024 Snap Tap Mode is not allowed in CS2. Crazy.
In the osu community, a player named cloutiful did recreate a feature similar to this using Wooting's dynamic keystroke and it was actually ruled as cheating.
rapid trigger was already pushing it in the osu community, this is absolutely cheating
@@sumkid9263the gaming community has fallen off so hard….
Damn, Karl Jobst just did the video about this last week. It'll be interesting to see how they continue to enforce the rule.
Osu is so trash lmao imagine playing a kids game 💀💀💀💀
@@istosho3830 someone is 7 digit
Wooting response was to release SOCD for every single keyboard even the Wooting ONE which was released 7 years ago
So amazing to add a cheating function. Luckily Valve banned it.
@@Habib_Osmanif any and every player can do it, then its not an unfair advantage.
@@Habib_Osman you just mad you cant afford it
@@Dafaq Yes, that must be it. Arab name, must be poor.
@@Dafaq Apple customer
I remember 16:9 monitors were banned in Warcraft 3 for the longest time for an "unfair advantage" they gave compared to old 4:3 ones. My prediction is that new keyboard tech will become new normal and skill ceiling would just drift into other areas.
I think the games will simply change the movement mechanics and patch out the advantage. What's the point in even having the mechanic if it only punishes players with normal keyboards?
@ryan.crosby "whats the point of even allowing widescreen if it just punishes people who are still on standard?"
thats not how innovation works, in a few years this will be a standard feature on keyboards just like every other feature that your modern set up has
When everyone's special, no one is.
@@ilikefrogs4291 alternatively null binds become the standards in pc gaming and will render razer's rnd moot, which would be the funnier outcome
@@MrCactuar13 someone made every standard first and profited wildly just because, for a time, they were the only ones selling the newest technology. its inevitable that other companies adopt this idea but in the few months razor is the only producer they will earn many times the rnd cost. not to mention its great for any company to have a reputation of making the newest and best so the profit made in branding alone more than makes up for development cost. also this is mostly a software thing so it was probably relatively inexpensive to develop.
i opened cs2 after watching this video and it gave me notice to disable snaptap if available on my keyboard and that keybinds are illegal ingame now
Basically, same thing happenned with this Simultaneous Opposite Cardinal Directions activation in the Fighting Game Community when the controller "Hitbox" came out
could always do that on any controller with a stick and dpad, and still can while hitbox is forced to SOCD clean, despite most games doing it themselves anyways. Bit shit tbh
This feature seems more like a Last Input SOCD cleaner than an SOCD input (after all, being able to press left and right strafe at the same time is already normal for FPS games, and already causes a result equal to not doing anything at all, unlike some fighting games which could cause you to walk forward and block at the same time).
@@roar104 lmao no it wasnt. not without modifications, anyway. socd cleaning was and is completely necessary.
@@potato_the_pig5757no he's right. Broski, who is high level pro in SF6, made a video regarding why the PS5 controller might be the best controller for SF, with one of those reasons being that PS allows you to remap either left stick or dpad to right stick, taking advantage of lack of SOCD cleaning and exceptions made for pad players in controller rulesets.
You'll also notice most rulesets don't disallow pad despite lack of SOCD cleaning and inputs mapped to multiple buttons just because it's the default.
@@hteety I’m aware, my comment was to the first reply of the chain or the original comment. I think you might have missed it.
bro just has the same black shirts hung up like a cartoon character lmao
5:55 for anyone wondering
It's for those sweaty FPS nights. 🤣
@@UFR00lz bro you can see them at the start of the video too
irl Johnny Bravo
master of simplicity
It’s very interesting seeing fps games go through some similar changes to fighting games and the issues we’ve had with leverless controllers
Tbh was dealing with this 14+ years ago on console. FPS players were modding controllers for multiple imputs, like for example firing so quickly you skip frames
Today's CS update cracked down on this. SnapTap and pretty much all jump binds are going to result in you being kicked from the game.
really funny how wooting announced it months ago and then razer just publishes the same thing before they do (although the rappy snappy beta is available for wooting as of 4 days ago), as you've said it's not entirely the same thing but I think wooting will just update it so the user can choose which version to use
Wooting already said they will not be adding the razer version as it's cheating, unlike theirs
@@R0x0r ah good to know, thanks
@@R0x0r And that's not true, Wooting is currently waiting for reaction from esports orgs, they already have a working implementation, should it be allowed it'll be added
You keep your Wooting, I'll keep my Razer.
@@Calslock don't they already have this feature on their beta website???
I've never watched before but I want to compliment on your presentation, production, and presence. I was also really happy you pointed out the null-canceling movement scripts in TF2 and CS, showed you know your stuff.
that's why optimum is the 🐐
this guy is the GOAT. cracked fps gamer, has a sick sports car, and his production is on another level. not to mention the lengths this guy goes to explain and test all the stuff he's talking about.
3:07 that accuracy is cray cray
Bro said cray cray
@@Kameかめ-e oh no anyway
@@Kameかめ-e bro said "Bro said cray cray"
@@WyattOShea "oh no anyway" 🤓
@@xd_joe "🤓" 🤓
As an Overwatch player, I sort of play the opposite way. I actually tend to smack both A and D down and lift up the direction I don't want to move in, so I need the overlap to work. I don't know why, I don't think many other Overwatch players are doing what I'm doing, but that's what I naturally landed on and peaked in the top 10-ish percent of players with.
this is what i thought it was going to be like when i made the switch to PC. i was confused when i realized it didnt work like this 7 years ago.
this is how it SHOULD work
Same
@----x----- I don't want people wiggling around like worms and playing like literal bots to be the norm tho.
I said the same thing when I switched. Keyboards are finally getting caught up with logic 😂
@Sc5ch then let devs know that you want "controlled" movement mechanics, because the hardware IS going this direction. These things evolve over time and improved accuracy in inevitable, no matter how it's achieved.
Devs would have to build limits into the software, but they need customer input to know that's what you want.
Always nice to see TF2 mentioned in videos. In RGL we explicitly allow null-movement scripts. I don't think it's an issue for TF2, but I think that's going to come down to that fast movement is generally emphasized so the micro-changes that this keyboard (and the script) allows isn't a gamechanger. It would be interesting to see how it develops with other games, even in games that focus on micro-movement like CS I imagine that it'll become more common, especially if it becomes a general standard on keyboards since there won't be a way to avoid it.
Its painfully clear when a scout has null movement scripts though. It’s banned in many scenes in tf2 because it does provide a clear advantage even if its not game breaking
@@ricardopaixao6367 where is it banned?
Also, TF2 does not have any movement and accuracy...
@@ricardopaixao6367 what “scenes”, friendly servers? 🤔
@@Skeptical-rf8ou every movement server bans null movement scripts as they provide an unfair advantage with your strafes, such as in bhop, and surf.
It has been up for debate multiple times as an allowable script in etf2l, but the general consensus is that it doesn't provide a clear benefit because it also hurts your movement. I am of the opinion that I am worse for it because I don't just strafe with A/D and having it kills my strafes due to the snapping. But there's a breed of ground strafe scouts that have gotten really good at it.
I'm not new to TF2 or the competitive scene, but you didn't know that and it's fine
Wooting 1 hour ago just released this exact same technology (Not Rappy Snappy, this is called SOCD) that the Razer keyboard has as a result of this video. Wooting's implementation however is alot more customisable AND is backwards compatible with all of their old keyboards 🤣
I am loving this product/feature arms race, only the consumer wins
Edit: Grammar fixes
The video introducing Wootings SOCD is so good; this video is on & the background, & "oh no, optimum, WHAT DID YOU DO? The rioters are [unintelligible] at the house!"
Dude I have a Ducky one 3 keyboard bruhhhhh there's literally no software
no one wins by spending money on razer
@@jesh879 Razer does ;)
RAZER IS STILL BETTER
WE WILL BUY RAZER
WE WILL CONSUME
WHOS WITH ME?!! 🗣
Watching and typing this as I'm on my Wooting 60 with the Razer DeathAdder V2 that I heavily researched and purchased due to your comprehensive review on it. I want to say Razer has come a long way since my first product, the Naga. I've tried other keyboards, headphones, mice, and I really really abuse my stuff. The only thing that has kept up with my hard use has been Razer products and I've seen that they're only getting better. Obviously if you go with a company that specializes certain products like webcams specifically there's hard competition but Razers product still holds up for the price point.
So far a lot of the products that is a "want" and I guess now including the keyboard are all Razer. And like I said I'm typing this on my Wooting which I specifically got for it's actuation speed, which Razer has addressed a flaw with. It's just weird how I try other products and always find myself going back to Razer.
I can only imagine what this will look like with BO6’s 360 movement that’s coming.
well most cod players are on controller, even PC players... shameful, I know. They all play with aim assist lmfao
@@brokenlegs_tvimagine playing a FPS game with controller, truly loser behaviour.
Well, that's just how it's played competitively lol. However I do feel the aim assist is way too strong, I wish there was none. But due to the casual nature of cod and now crossplay it's even stronger.
So strong there's a option to turn it down thank God. @@brokenlegs_tv
@@jasfx7241hey man I reckon there's a lot of people who could turn off aim assist and give pc players trouble lol. There's only AA because controller takes way more skill. Using a mouse is very intuitive, just point n click lol.
@@Bambam- I mean unless you are a average Joe Shmoe that uses a hp laptop for work yes the controller users will absolutely destroy that guy but if you come across some tech savys that use keyboard and mouse for years good luck on that buckko.
the strafe spam in ow on lucio is actually busted as the hitbox manipulation makes it alot more difficult to hit him
if they dont vary their strafe spam then you're just falling for a magic trick. pick a side.
@@battlecruisernathat’s impossible with certain characters. If your character is hit scan, and with a certain rate of fire it can literally be impossible to influence your chance to hit, AKA there isn’t skill, you basically just have to hope that he’s on the side you’re aiming on when your rate of fire would hitscan the target, this would cripple a widow, Ashe, or Mcree character
@@ekothesilent9456 maybe i'm just biased from playing tf2. I guess it might be harder in overwatch.
Have fun having the hitbox debate lmaooo
LMFAO LITERALLY MY EXACT THOUGHT
What is that?
@@eg8568 fighting game controllers which have SOCD
@@KOPFJE thanks
@@eg8568full button controllers primarily used by the fighting game community
This is why i play tactical shooters. I prefer to win based on good decisions, not better peripherals or bullshit a/d strafing with no inertia
That’s of course until you remember it’s razer and then the keyboard won’t be able to sense multiple key presses after a week
Yeah for real Razer products break so fast I’m convinced it’s on purpose to make people repurchase. Guess you can do that when your brand is popular…
yeah ive been using a razer keyboard for 8years without any problems, so sad that they break so often...
@@ndnddndndnnodemnnnddndndn I have had 4 razer keyboards every one of them had a problem not even a month in. The mice are just as bad, especially the wireless ones.
@@chingy1033 do you beat up ur stuff
@@aaditbontha465 nope, just razer
null movement binds are so normal in tf2 that i had no clue why this was controversial when razer dropped it
Yeah, it's kind of fascinating that tf2 (and CS to some extent) is the only still relevant fps game that lets you freely script out your controls, along with many things
I would use null movement binds on CS but I don't because sometimes it's useful to use both keys to together to cancel out the momentum and stop, and having null binds would stop me from hiding behind cover with that strat
if game configs give you an option to add this i think it's fine. but i see hardware/software based solutions for this as a form of input automation. that's just a personal take. curious to see what others think of it if more people start using this
It removes the skill gab between people who can strafe and those who cant.
Lets say a pro is a really good aimer but cant strafe to save his life, uses this keyboard which than again gives him the edge over someone who can strafe better, because not only his strafes are fixed, his reaction time decreases.
Which makes him someone who used hardware to be better, nothing about his skill changed only the hardware. This is just a hack imo.
@@marrchy2682 using am adjustable DPI wireless lightweight mouse with bindable side buttons is just a hack if you somehow had it at a tournament 25 years ago. If this becomes common at a hardware level, then there is nothing any developer can really do about it detection wise and it will just become normal. Leagues might still make rules about it for awhile, but for everyone else, it'll be normal.
whos here after wooting implemented snap tap 💀
when did they do it
Few days ago on beta wootility software
me lul
Why is everyone talking about the RAZER HUNTSMAN V3 PRO MINI when it came out in 2023?
@@haskell3702 ig they're making updates on the keyboard... everyone is trying to compete with wooting atm
I played a game called elsword that needed an anti-ghosting keyboard to perform certain movements. This isn't new, it's just something FPS players wouldn't think of.
old PS/2 keyboards had NKRO, meaning you could press the entire keyboard and every single key would register. probably designed with those in mind
For those of you who don't play CS or FPS games in general, 60-70ms is genuinely massive. At high levels, most fights are literally over in one bullet. It is not uncommon to encounter an enemy and one of you is dead within 2-300ms. Shaving 70ms off of that is huge.
yeah obviously 60-70 ms is fucking huge in games where headshots are a one-hit kill and walking at a snail's pace for more than 0.000000000000002 nanoseconds adds so much reticle bloom that the bullet leaves the barrel of the gun at a fucking 45 degree angle
0:22 my man living in his GTA V bunker
3:19 optimum's effort in this video should be appreciated a lot more, he has some of the most innovative testing methodology despite being much smaller than giant media groups like LMG. I'm so glad I subbed to him.
LMG is trash for real content. Watch them for entertainment, stop for anything serious. Their "Labs Team" is a joke.
Yeah, where else would I get hard numbers on the advantage provided?
Is this feature only on the V3 version? or does it come on the cheaper huntsman? ($90) Thanks. amazing review/plug lol
I’d like to know this too
Can snap tap be enabled just for specific keys? I ask this question because for movement keys is great but for other keys it would be detrimental, like weapon switching. You don't want your movement to be affected when you press keybinds for weapon switching, reloading, etc.
no it's not possible. You need to stop moving, to swap your guns.
@@yoriiroy1720 And it also affects the mouse too. Even forward and side to side, so you can't go on the diagonal anymore.
@@yoriiroy1720so basically this is entirely useless?
@@ChuckThat Of course you can define which keys this applies to. It would be entirely unusable otherwise.
that's sick i would prefer my last pressed strafing input to be the recognized input, that feels right.
as an old bastard though, i hate how many multiplayer shooters are wiggle-fests. going to go take my nap now
You might like World of Tanks, physically incapable of wiggling
This has been available on many Leverless Arcade controllers for fighting games for a long time, it's called "Last Priority SOCD (Simultaneous Opposing Cardinal Directions) cleaning". If you have a Leverless Arcade Controller with the GP2040 Chip you can configure the SOCD settings in any way you want, on the fly with a Hotkey. There ist Last Priority SOCD cleaning (same as the Razer Keyboard in this instance: the controller sends the Cardinal Direction that was pressed last if both are pressed at the same time), No Cleaning (The controller sends both directions to the application and then the Game decides what happens when UP+DOWN or LEFT+ RIGHT is pressed together, this is what all keyboards had until now), Up-Priority (UP+DOWN = Controller sends UP to the Application, LEFT+RIGHT it send NEUTRAL) and SOCD Neutral (Controller always send NEUTRAL of both opposing cardinal directions are pressed).
Thank you
Yeah, it just sounds like the game is coded wrong and should just implement last priority.
@@vezquex Agree, although I think they coded it like that on purpose. IMO I think it should just be an option in the game what Kind of SOCD behavior you want.
@@vezquex It's coded that way on purpose, precisely to prevent easy 100% perfect counter-strafing, which makes good counter-strafing one of the skills you need to learn and practice to be good at the game.
This is why games need inertia.
I'm shocked how many modern games have none. Also progressive slowdown when too many direction changes happen over short periods of time.
@@JAnx01inertia would suck.
its good in tarkov but its a realistic shooter lol fast paces twitch shooter dont need inertia
@@adam-z9e2j They need some otherwise you're going to get this hyper unrealistic strafe vector change spam.
@@blackboxconsumer41 That's the point: game design doesn't incorporate solely features that advantage you, they should also handicap you in some ways, to require/demand more skill.
Did you build the solenoid mechanism yourself, brother? Looks very cool! Could you link/make a tutorial?
Funny how wooting has already implemented it and made it better
Is it actually better?
@@sammy042 Yeah it has more customization
@@rRevanYT Ah, cool. I'm really looking forward to a comparison of the Razer vs. Wooting and the snappy tappy feature. Razer will probably be better than a lot of other gaming keyboards with their new feature, but I'm still really interested in how much better Wooting is going to be in comparison.
😮
@@sammy042 razer aint know for their quality builds, i think wootang is pretty solid
3:43 i just guessed it would be 15 to 25 but 60 to 70 is actually insane. That's half of the reaction time of an average pro.
Imagine an average pro has an one third lowered reaction to action time.
With a hard baked in 50ms overlap, so if a pro movement (think forest from csgo bhop) did it, the result would be much less. Forest was always accused of cheating for his almost perfect strafe sync, so its not necessarily an advantage, there's a soft limit.
@@-ev1l562 THANK YOU. me fuming i missed that. so it probably everything considered half's reactions times.
we aint talking about reaction time when it comes to strafing. its muscle memory.
He added 50ms of overlay to simulate human error. This means on wooting the machine was pressing A and D at the same time for 50ms, so no shit razer was faster by 60-70ms 😂
@@MiscoJix bro 50 ms is way to low to account for even average miss presses. it should be atleast 100 ms. 50 is in favor of other keyboard, also wooting has generally a better reaciton time then most keyboards. so probably even 110 ms
The automated key-pressers you used are totally badass. Respect for the amount of work you put into this video!
1:59 oh that's not annoying at all
I dont know how that kind of gaming is enjoyable. lol All of this is insane to me and Im really happpy Im not this sort of gamer
Bad game design don't blame the keyboard lol
@@PROTOTYPEHALO never said I was blaming the keyboard
One the reasons I quit the game, you literally have to dedicate hours just to aim practice to defeat certain characters and I just don’t have time for that
I wonder how unemployed you gotta be to game like that
That's the best commercial for a keyboard I have ever seen
Yes, razer did great there
And if you go in the comments you can see the "competitor keyboard" in the commercial can already do this too. Thank god too since razer's products suck quality wise in my experience. Especially mice and headphones at least, not sure about keyboards.
@@mrkiky I bought a Razer mouse and didn't even get to play with it for more than 5 min before it broke
Wooting just added their own implementation of Razer's 'Snap Tap' feature, it's called 'SOCD'
Ooh nice to know
Ah yes. Hitbox SOCD cleaning.
SOCD is not what the feature is called that just what these keyboards are achieving
@@KrelosWanchez No SOCD is what they named the feature temporarily
SOCD isn't what it is though. It's the opposite, it removes SOCD.
Using OW as an exemple isn't that relevant, OW doesn’t have movement inacuracy and the strafing is based on a longer timer not just left right very fast (medium hitbox)
We need a company like Wooting but for mice so we actually start getting more advancements again now all companies are so stale...
I hope I never have to replace my g700s
Big true
you can get a wireless 3395 mouse for $40-50 now, the competition is crazy
I'm pretty sure it's finalmouse
u have finalmouse and razer thanks to that u have under 60grams 8khz wireless mouse with optical switches and perfect sensors. There is little to improve at this point
Definitely detectable. Both pressing and releasing a key sends a keystroke. This feature essentially sends the press and release keystroke at the same instant, which would be impossible to do consistently by manual means.
@@slendok4960 someone watches Karl Jobst
@@slendok4960not a cheat tho
6:08 it most definitely is bannable if against the terms. the amount of analytics devs have to see what exactly it is you're doing and how repeatable it is is EXTREMELY easy to detect and if they determine its not allowed you will be banned.
I think he means bannable as easily detectable.
Yes it may be detectable but in a large data set it wouldn't stand out
A side note to whether keyboards like this will be detectable:
While it changes behavior on hardware level, it is still too perfect of an input. You can easily collect this data and analize it for mistakes-to-perfects ratios (for example by a trained AI). If the probability curve looks suspicious the player has likely cheated. It's all probability of course and it could lead to false positives being detected, although anticheat measures already operate on this basis - you can never truly prove if a player is cheating if you don't check his entire setup, but you can still be highly suspicious of him and ban him based on these suspicions.
Another thing worth mentioning is "what if these keyboards add some random mistakes here and there to bypass the detection?". Well, bad news here. If they do a good enough job with that then there will be no way to tell if someone is truly skilled or if they were using this "doping".
I remember like 10 years ago when I upgraded from a trash generic monitor to a 1ms 144hz monitor and it felt like I was literally cheating in CS
Now we have 540hz DyAc+ and all the bells and whistles.
It's crazy in a lot of other games too. For example, consider Destiny 2's 340 RPM pulse rifles. They have better accuracy when you're stationary or do very little movement. The difference is noticeable. But since D2 is a movement heavy shooter, this forces you to either have perfect positioning and peeking on every situation, or to lane. With this, you can essentially cheat the system to reset accuracy as you counter-strafe, meaning you can now use a 340 pulse as if it was, say, a Hand Cannon.Thing is, the fastest killing HC has a 0.87 TTK. The fastest killing PR has a 0.67 TTK.
This is HUGE.
My guy no one needs this for d2 PvP 😭
D2 pvp 😂😂😂😂😂 bro for sure a clown
Now imagine someone who still cares for D2 pvp
We found Gernader Jake's smurf
LMAO, imagine thinking that this will be huge in the trashcan peer-to-peer that is D2 PvP.
We’re really slowly getting in territory of hardware cheats or at least what is considered “pay2win”.
Using an MMO mouse in MMO pvp gives you a huge advantage. Basically removes the need to stretch the fingers of your left hand all over the keyboard, and ups your apm dramatically. This did make me wonder if the razer naga (or simailar mice) was pay2win.
This always has been the case - you want to play at highest levels you need the best peripherals hardware at the minimum and a good PC for FPS. Nothing new here and actual skills are still required to preform best with the best hardware.
If anything we have been slowly moving there for 30 years, how is this any different than a sub 50g 2.4ghz mouse/high frequency monitor/computer that can run max framerate etc.
I believe this will become a standard feature in decent gaming keyboards down the line,
We were always there imagine a player with a shitty 60hz monitor vs a 540hz monitor.
So I guess buying a good gpu with a high refresh rate monitor is pay to win also? Along with everything else?
Imagine being sponsored by Logitech and having to face a team sponsored by Razer.
0:01 this is what gay movment looks like
That’s crazy💀
Pretty much lmao
the salt is crazy
Speaking from experience? 😂
LMFAO
1.5 million views in 2 days!!! crazy to see your levels of success grow over the years. Happy for you and well deserved.
Going from a regular mechanical keyboard to this must feel crazy
Meh, Contactless switches might be very light, but you have no feel to them.
@@gorkskoal9315what about laptop keyboards lol very little travel and you know when you pressed it
It's all a matter of personal preference. But I like hall effect switches much more than I have ever liked mechanical keys. Wooting's Rapid Trigger feature had already set the keyboard apart from any that I used before.
Assuming that all keys are programmed identically, I don't see the issue. A overriding D is fine as long as A also overrides W. Also tab overrides alt.
The actual problem comes from programming individual keys to behave differently from one another, not from having a keyboard that only ever gives a single output.
suprised there was no mention of leverless controller bans in fighting games. Very similar topic
In fighting game hardware we call this Asynchronous Horizontal SOCD (Simultaneous Opposing Cardinal Directions). Wonder if Razer revisited this concept since they recently got into arcade stick hardware.
idk how u manage to explain weird concepts (atleast for me) so well but im glad ur able to do so , love ur vids ❤
Is Wooting or this Razer keyboard worth getting for competitive overwatch?
Overwatch's lack of character acceleration is an interesting choice, and I really wonder if they'd keep it if they were starting again. They actually talked about it in an update where they increased the hitbox of a lot of projectiles, they wanted to make it easier to hit shots, but they couldn't consider adding movement accel as it'd make characters feel sluggish (compared to what everyone knows). But with stuff like this, it's just absurdly hard to hit. In terms of whether it actually makes a difference, it really does if your opponent is aiming for headshots
The lack of inertia in OW movement was one of the biggest reasons I dropped the game. The jittery instant strafing looked and felt so bad, it really made the game feel amateurish.
This looks…unfun to play against
But fun to play with 😏🤩
Thank you for making and framing the video how it is. This way Wooting almost immediately had to enable that feature.
Null canceling movement configs have been a thing in source games for over a decade now using native non-cheat console commands, you can do this on any keyboard in CS or TF2
1:38 So you can't press W & D simultaneously to go diagonal?
you obviously still can because W and D aren’t counteractive movement keys. Pressing W and D doesn’t neutralize your momentum like pressing W and S or A and D would.
@@SaltSpirits He said "It only activates your last pressed input", he didn't say anything about counteractive keys.
@@SaltSpiritsSo, you're saying its specialized to WASD, and not for the whole keyboard? What if I want to snap tap my hjkl in Vim? 😅
Never thought about putting last input type priority style SOCD cleaning in a keyboard but it makes so much sense for this. With fighting games there are some gams at have specific SOCD rulesets and in fighting games you can design how the game responds to it (for newer releases) but not sure if that would work with fps
This is called SOCD and has been a thing in fighting games for a decade+.
This is a specific type of SOCD though as it's different depending on the game. In Tekken, SOCD is = to Neutral, which is how it's worked in fps games too.
This video is talking about last input SOCD which, I think they coulda built it into the game if they wanted it to be a thing.
Since this is now here on a hardware level, things may change on the game's side too.
In modern games, it's up to the software to handle this, but for older games, some forms of SOCD cleaning were "legit" and others were considered cheating.
Allowing left+right considered cheating in old games, because it's impossible to do on a pad or stick. Modern games should clean it themselves.
Left+Right = Null is considered OK, but still allows for quick tapping to change from moving in one direction null.
Priority of one button (i.e. up+down = up) is considered OK.
Last input (i.e. what we see here) is usually considered not legit in older games, but up to modern games to clean.
Razer just stole script form github and call it A FEATURE
Except for fighting games pressing left and right at the same time has to result in a neutral input or you are in fact cheating. A hitbox that doesn't give you neutral when doing this would have a huge advantage over other controller options like sticks that have a physical limit to how fast they can go from left to right.
@@Hiiiro Last input SOCD is a common option in leverless controllers.
To me this just seems like it's a more accurate reflection of the users inputs. You only move left when the user presses left, and you only move right when the user lifts their finger or pressed the opposite button. So it's still a 1 to 1 mapping of user input to computer response, just without the lag.
how does sth like diagonal walking work? WA/WD? would they cancel each other if I understood your explanation correctly..?
The feature does not affect diagonal walking, as these directions (WA, WD) are not opposites of each other.
You can set what keys have this enabled. So you can set so only A and D cancel each other out and only W and S
@@R0x0r this is a really important piece of info the dude intentionally left out in the video to make ppl ask and generate comments. Seriously all those charts and mechanisms but he didn't mention this when talking about the actuation mechanisms?
@@FullCircle11or maybe he just thought it was fucking obvious bro
That's crazy good. Great comparison.
Really hope the Wooting80HE will follow up next month.
It will be better lol
@@Spectrulight Wdym? I preordered that Wooting and I'm wondering about getting this Razer aswell
Will the wooting be better choice?
@@RicardoMilosGachi yes, if you're talking about the 80he
What if you’re trying to move at a 45 degree angle for a second? You’re holding D, say, and want to tap W to move sideways but instead you just move straight forward? That doesn’t sound good
Its only for opposing keys such as a/d
wdym, the opposite of w is s, so instead, if you had 4 fingers lets say, it would allow you to insta switch from A+W to S+D if you wanted to go from 135 degrees to 315 instantly, but going from A+W to D+W would be no problem, you wouldn't stop going forward after clicking D. I am guessing also that this snap tap feature is only on wasd.
You can only enable 2 keys to be used for snap tap (A and D by default)
@@Winged-h7y ah ok, thanks
3:40 That 60-70 ms means exactly nothing, because you chose the exact timing of the overlap. What's more interesting is that you set 50 seconds of overlap, yet its somehow 10 ms faster than what you set. Also, why would the exact value vary by double (10-20 ms)? There are some curious things happening in your rig which are either unexplained (so far) or uncontrolled.
What's the difference between the razor with and without the update? What's the difference between the two keyboards when the update isn't installed? I bet its still 10-20 ms.