_"Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."_ (Rev. 21:14) Isn't that who Jesus is addressing here, the Church's foundation and not the individual members? Rom. 11:17, Israel is pruned and the Gentile grafted. _"...But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either....If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned"_ (Rom 11:20,21; John 15:6) Rom 11 concludes with all Israel saved, even if through the flame.
Two keys in John 15 is verse 3 You are already CLEAN because of the word which I have spoken to you. Jesus is speaking to the eleven disciples. And verse 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My DISCIPLES. Let’s look at verse 3 and the word clean. One is made clean when they are born again they have the seed of God 1 John 3:9 they never sin as a manifestation of the new man. Whenever they sin it’s a manifestation of the flesh. Being born again is a one time event when one believes a single proposition. Jesus promise: Truly, truly, I say to you he who believes is Me HAS eternal life. Eternal life is eternal and taken freely as a gift. Verse 8 this is about discipleship which we are to count the cost, it’s a life long process of losing your life in order to gain it (see John 12:24-26; Luke 14:25-33). Just remember your Heavenly Father isn’t standing over you with a BIG stick ready to hit you. Jesus reminds us concerning His yoke: “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am GENTLE and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. “For My yoke is EASY and My burden is LIGHT. We see this played out when Jesus restores Peter after Peter denied Jesus three times. First Jesus makes them breakfast and then serves them breakfast. And then Jesus asked Peter if he loves Him, and Peter says he likes Him. Then Jesus asks Him a second time if he loved Him, and Peter reply’s he likes Him. Then Jesus the third time asks Peter if he likes Him, and Peter replies you know that I like you. John 21:12-17 (agapao vrs. phileo) The work Jesus wants us to do we’re not doing it by ourself that’s why He says it is easy, and light.
Yes Jesus had Peter repent of his sin of denial 3 times, once for each denial just as John says we true repentant believers must do each time we sin. (1 John 1:9)
@@2Chronicles714_@AlvinFen Beautifully stated Alvin . This dude exactly fits all the Exegetical definition of an "antichrist" . Without the slightest shred of Doubt. Denies that the Christ gives the endless Gift of Everlasting Life apart from all behavioral performance (works) . This dude instead worships himself , having rejected His PERFECT work of Redemption that fully Propitiated for all sins ever committed . So , this dude is thinking that his Filthy , Vile , Horrific , and utterly despicable sins are atoned for by means of a Lifetime Performance Contract payable upon "successful completion" (while never knowing how "Good" that behavioral performance must Necessarily be to Qualify) . There's no more poignant an example of a "Mission Impossible"in the annals of History . Definition of a modern Judaizer/unregenerate Scribe and Pharisee (Matthew 23) . A walking No-Brainer 2 Corinthians 4:4/Luke 8:12 phenomena .
But the branches in him that are taken away could be Jews who don't believe in Christ. Since Israel (the people of God) are said to be a vine in the OT. eg. Psalm 80 Either way the verse doesn't mean loss of eternal life.
IF John's gospel is for unbelievers then how could John 15:1-10 apply to an unbeliever? How about John 16:1 All this I have told you so that you will not fall away John 14:12,16,17 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 16:7-8 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. John 17:20-26 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me THROUGH THEIR MESSAGE, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one- 23I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
Three tell tale signs of a antichrist. 1 John 2:18 many antichrists have come… (1) First they attack Jesus as “the Christ.” 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies Jesus is the Christ… Because: 1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God… (2) Second they attack the gift of God the promise of eternal life. 1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that He has promised us-eternal life. 1 John 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. (3) Third they declare they don’t struggle with sin but you do, therefore you are a sinner, and they ain’t. They have arrived at being perfect, and you’re a dirty rotten sinner. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another so that you do not do the things that you wish. (Wisdom from the Professor) Those who are willing to look at themselves with complete honesty will find more grounds to doubt their salvation than to be assured of it. ZH This man was an elder pastor for 50 years of a Church that gathered each week around the Lord’s supper, but yet he was humble enough to make that comment. He also said he was sure he sinned at least seven times in a day. At his funeral people spoke concerning him of as one of the most godly men they ever met. He never married and devoted his life completely to Christ. He said concerning the apostle John in his First Epistle: John’s definition of a Christian brother is simple and direct. Whoever (there are no exceptions!) believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. But a Christian is NOT DEFIND by lifestyle, good works, or obedience to God. A Christian is defined only by faith in Christ.
@AlvinFen 3 definite signs of an Anti-Christ. Those who say we don't have to declare Jesus is Lord because without repentance they don't have the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38) 1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Those who preach a different message of salvation (repent and believe) than Jesus,the disciples and Paul all preached. Those who teach a false man-made teaching and attack those who are preaching the truth. 2 Peter 2:1-4 There were also FALSE PROPHETS among the people, JUST AS THERE WILL BE FALSE TEACHERS among you. THEY WILL SECRETLY INTRODUCE DESTRUCTIVE HERESIES, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them BRINGING SWIFT DESTRUCTION ON THEMSELVES. 2 MANY WILL FOLLOW THEIR DEPRAVED CONDUCT and WILL BRING Theway of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. THEIR CONDEMNATION HAS LONG BEEN HANGING OVER THEM, and THEIR DESTRUCTION HAS NOT BEEN SLEEPING.4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, a putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment. Acts 13:10 You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? Jude 4 For CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WHOSE CONDEMNATION was written about long ago have SECRETLY SLIPPED IN among you. THEY ARE ungodly people, who PERVERT THE GRACE of our God into a LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
@AlvinFen Bragging about works ? How did he explain away this story by Jesus when he preached against the absolute command of God that people must humble themselves and repent of their sins to be saved? Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will REPENT. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Those who die as unrepentant sinners will spend eternity in the lake of fire,
@AlvinFen Regrettable that some think believing in Jesus simply means that He existed while ignoring that John uses believing and obeying interchangeably. Also those who teach that John taught to believe only are saying John changed his mind and preached a different gospel than Jesus did. Mark 6:12 They [Disciples] went out and preached that people should REPENT. This is my final response to Alvin Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
@@2Chronicles714_ You've never ONCE produced the following: "Whosoever repents has Everlasting Life". Nor : "Whosoever that doesn't repent shall go to the endless lake of fire" . You therefore don't have the slightest shred of a Sub Nano Particle of evidence that Objectively sustains your Working for a Free and Never Deserving Gift Theology . It would prove helpful in persuading anyone of your proposition if you could actually summon the above-mentioned 2 passages. Undeniably , your doctrine Tops Out at sheer Unknowability of your Everlasting destination because you're a Frail , Fallible and Filthy Rotten sinner...like me and every other mere human who's ever lived . So , all who look to their Perseverance till death in an Unknowable level of hopefully good enough behavioral performance (works) are as self idolatrous as they are deluded ... Literally Spitting in the face of the One who did ALL the Work of Redemption Himself , without any of our help ! Complete and utter Blasphemy . The Quintessence of Pride and arrogance . Unbelief in Him for what He actually Certifies .
Thank you.😊
Thank you !
_"Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."_ (Rev. 21:14) Isn't that who Jesus is addressing here, the Church's foundation and not the individual members? Rom. 11:17, Israel is pruned and the Gentile grafted. _"...But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either....If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned"_ (Rom 11:20,21; John 15:6) Rom 11 concludes with all Israel saved, even if through the flame.
Two keys in John 15 is verse 3 You are already CLEAN because of the word which I have spoken to you.
Jesus is speaking to the eleven disciples.
And verse 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My DISCIPLES.
Let’s look at verse 3 and the word clean. One is made clean when they are born again they have the seed of God 1 John 3:9 they never sin as a manifestation of the new man. Whenever they sin it’s a manifestation of the flesh. Being born again is a one time event when one believes a single proposition.
Jesus promise: Truly, truly, I say to you he who believes is Me HAS eternal life.
Eternal life is eternal and taken freely as a gift.
Verse 8 this is about discipleship which we are to count the cost, it’s a life long process of losing your life in order to gain it (see John 12:24-26; Luke 14:25-33).
Just remember your Heavenly Father isn’t standing over you with a BIG stick ready to hit you.
Jesus reminds us concerning His yoke:
“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am GENTLE and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. “For My yoke is EASY and My burden is LIGHT.
We see this played out when Jesus restores Peter after Peter denied Jesus three times. First Jesus makes them breakfast and then serves them breakfast. And then Jesus asked Peter if he loves Him, and Peter says he likes Him. Then Jesus asks Him a second time if he loved Him, and Peter reply’s he likes Him. Then Jesus the third time asks Peter if he likes Him, and Peter replies you know that I like you. John 21:12-17 (agapao vrs. phileo)
The work Jesus wants us to do we’re not doing it by ourself that’s why He says it is easy, and light.
Yes Jesus had Peter repent of his sin of denial 3 times, once for each denial just as John says we true repentant believers must do each time we sin.
(1 John 1:9)
@@2Chronicles714_@AlvinFen
Beautifully stated Alvin .
This dude exactly fits all the Exegetical definition of an "antichrist" .
Without the slightest shred of Doubt.
Denies that the Christ gives the endless Gift of Everlasting Life apart from all behavioral performance (works) .
This dude instead worships himself , having rejected His PERFECT work of Redemption that fully Propitiated for all sins ever committed .
So , this dude is thinking that his Filthy , Vile , Horrific , and utterly despicable sins are atoned for by means of a Lifetime Performance Contract payable upon "successful completion" (while never knowing how "Good" that behavioral performance must Necessarily be to Qualify) .
There's no more poignant an example of a "Mission Impossible"in the annals of History .
Definition of a modern Judaizer/unregenerate Scribe and Pharisee (Matthew 23) .
A walking No-Brainer 2 Corinthians 4:4/Luke 8:12 phenomena .
But the branches in him that are taken away could be Jews who don't believe in Christ. Since Israel (the people of God) are said to be a vine in the OT. eg. Psalm 80 Either way the verse doesn't mean loss of eternal life.
IF John's gospel is for unbelievers then how could John 15:1-10 apply to an unbeliever?
How about
John 16:1
All this I have told you so that you will not fall away
John 14:12,16,17
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 16:7-8
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away,
the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
John 17:20-26
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me THROUGH THEIR MESSAGE, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one- 23I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
24“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
Three tell tale signs of a antichrist.
1 John 2:18 many antichrists have come…
(1) First they attack Jesus as “the Christ.”
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies Jesus is the Christ…
Because:
1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God…
(2) Second they attack the gift of God the promise of eternal life.
1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that He has promised
us-eternal life.
1 John 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
(3) Third they declare they don’t struggle with sin but you do, therefore you are a sinner, and they ain’t. They have arrived at being perfect, and you’re a dirty rotten sinner.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another so that you do not do the things that you wish.
(Wisdom from the Professor)
Those who are willing to look at themselves with complete honesty will find more grounds to doubt their salvation than to be assured of it. ZH
This man was an elder pastor for 50 years of a Church that gathered each week around the Lord’s supper, but yet he was humble enough to make that comment. He also said he was sure he sinned at least seven times in a day. At his funeral people spoke concerning him of as one of the most godly men they ever met. He never married and devoted his life completely to Christ.
He said concerning the apostle John in his First Epistle: John’s definition of a Christian brother is simple and direct. Whoever (there are no exceptions!) believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.
But a Christian is NOT DEFIND by lifestyle, good works, or obedience to God. A Christian is defined only by faith in Christ.
@AlvinFen
3 definite signs of an Anti-Christ.
Those who say we don't have to declare Jesus is Lord because without repentance they don't have the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 2:38)
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
Those who preach a different message of salvation (repent and believe) than Jesus,the disciples and Paul all preached.
Those who teach a false man-made teaching and attack those who are preaching the truth.
2 Peter 2:1-4
There were also FALSE PROPHETS among the people, JUST AS THERE WILL BE FALSE TEACHERS among you. THEY WILL SECRETLY INTRODUCE DESTRUCTIVE HERESIES, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them BRINGING SWIFT DESTRUCTION ON THEMSELVES.
2 MANY WILL FOLLOW THEIR DEPRAVED CONDUCT and WILL BRING Theway of truth into disrepute.
3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. THEIR CONDEMNATION HAS LONG BEEN HANGING OVER THEM, and THEIR DESTRUCTION HAS NOT BEEN SLEEPING.4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, a putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment.
Acts 13:10
You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?
Jude 4
For CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WHOSE CONDEMNATION was written about long ago have SECRETLY SLIPPED IN among you. THEY ARE ungodly people, who PERVERT THE GRACE of our God
into a LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
@AlvinFen
Bragging about works ?
How did he explain away this story by Jesus when he preached against the absolute command of God that people must humble themselves and repent of their sins to be saved?
Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will REPENT. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Those who die as unrepentant sinners will spend eternity in the lake of fire,
@AlvinFen
Regrettable that some think believing in Jesus simply means that He existed while ignoring that John uses believing and obeying interchangeably.
Also those who teach that John taught to believe only are saying John changed his mind and preached a different gospel than Jesus did.
Mark 6:12
They [Disciples] went out and preached that people should REPENT.
This is my final response to Alvin
Mark 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
@@2Chronicles714_
You've never ONCE produced the following:
"Whosoever repents has Everlasting Life".
Nor :
"Whosoever that doesn't repent shall go to the endless lake of fire" .
You therefore don't have the slightest shred of a Sub Nano Particle of evidence that Objectively sustains your Working for a Free and Never Deserving Gift Theology .
It would prove helpful in persuading anyone of your proposition if you could actually summon the above-mentioned 2 passages.
Undeniably , your doctrine Tops Out at sheer Unknowability of your Everlasting destination because you're a Frail , Fallible and Filthy Rotten sinner...like me and every other mere human who's ever lived .
So , all who look to their Perseverance till death in an Unknowable level of hopefully good enough behavioral performance (works) are as self idolatrous as they are deluded ...
Literally Spitting in the face of the One who did ALL the Work of Redemption Himself , without any of our help !
Complete and utter Blasphemy .
The Quintessence of Pride and arrogance .
Unbelief in Him for what He actually Certifies .
No. But 1.John 5:16-17 does.
Jesus declared that those who believe in Him have everlasting life and will never die. See John 6:47, 11:26.