New: Dare Aero Bike, Trek Madone, Pinarello Dogma & Canyon Aeroad | The NERO Show Ep. 86
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- Опубліковано 23 чер 2024
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The start of the Critérium du Dauphiné (Tour de France Warm Up Race) see's a huge amount of new bikes on top of team cars. We do some pixel peeping and make our predictions about these new bikes from Canyon, TREK, DARE and Pinarello
00:00 intro
00:30 New Bikes At Dauphiné
01:25 New Aerroad
06:22 New Dogma
11:06 New Dare Aero Bike
14:00 Madone Spotted at Dauphiné
23:19 What Does This Mean For TREK?
38:38 NorCal Aero Sensor
44:53 Coyle Bike Update
46:57 Rim Brake Regrets
53:35 Coyle Race Tips
Footage courtesy of
@roadcc
@NorCalCycling
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STRAVA: / strava
Check Out Jesse's Coaching: www.nero.club/coaching - Спорт
just let it roll, 1.5 hr episodes next
With them, 3 hours are fine 🎉
Why stop at 1.5?? Chris keeps saying 3 hours! Let them cook!
@@_gregvalencia 3 hour Live stream ???? actually that's a terrible idea, we'll get cancelled.
@@ChrisMillerCycling 1-2h is a nice range! The important part is having relevant subjects to discuss and justify the length. Lots of podcasts try to maintain long hours just babbling about sh*t and then it becomes boring, just avoid that lol
We're here for the chat. If there's more good chat then that's fine by me.
Month ago I met Pedersen, he was riding on this Madone but just in RED color without any stickers. I even didnt recognized from behind that he was on new Madone, until he told me not to put video online cause he was on unrealized bike =) Lighter, stiffer... not faster but really nice looking bike
Oh that's really interesting to read mate. You are dead right though, lighter and stiffer but not faster.
Another cracking podcast lads. Stiff, compliant and holds its speed every week
The Dare looks like when folk used to put road handlebars on an old rim brake Shiv TT bike... genuinely thought it was a TT bike
Cervelo has all the choice Jesse wants. They have exactly the lineup he described- Aero S5, climbing R5, endurance Caledonia (which is plenty good, Jumbo has ridden it at Roubaix) and mixed-race bike Soloist
That caledonia is surprisingly comfy… maybe the geometry and carbon layout plays some role im sure, tried it on 28mm tires and its so good
Came here to say the exact same thing. The Soloist is the tweener bike for the regular punter who needs one (somewhat) reasonably priced high performance road bike to do all things reasonably well. The World Tour Pros, and highly committed amateurs, pick from the S5 and R5, depending on the task at hand.
@garypatrick3001 Jumbo have been using the Soloist a heap in races this year. It seems to be gaining favour with them
The Tarmac SL8 has a lower frame weight than the Cervelo R8 and is ~15W more aerodynamic from Tour magazine. Seems kind of pointless to try to optimize weight only with current weight limit docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TaT0FcinEbW9b3bKZqf4T5yVaoGxdtsKXhRiva86_k4/edit?pli=1#gid=0
I agree. I did NOT trickle all over the place when I saw the new Madone.
Don't you guys think Trek has done a think tank review of their model line up? They did and came up with the fact that consumers were too confused by all the bike choices, many models of which didn't sell well, bloating their inventory and costing Trek money. This is the right direction bike manufacturers are going in as many models are just redundant. We're talking about road bikes, not cars.
Trek got so confusing, they had SLR and RSL models of the same bike, c'mon...they're the same letters!
At one point certain brands get so strange in their naming strategies that they're basically inventing a model line-up only hard core fans can understand: Trek isn't alone; Porsche & Assos are 2 other brands that just over complicate things.
Add BMC to that list too
Like I mentioned, I think this bike will sell well for just that reason. It’s a solid bike that will appeal to more people with less barriers to entry. That doesn’t mean I have to like the direction though, more choice more points of difference is what I want. In saying that, I know I am a small niche of the bike buying public.
@@ChrisMillerCycling Trek GB list 14 Emonda carbon models and 9 Madones. If the market is not as big as hoped a couple of years ago then a single high end model range makes sense - R&D, supplier relations, logistics, store stock levels, warranty, marketing and more can be reduced. If the aero performance of the new bike is close to the old one (why shouldn’t it be?) and weighs less then it makes sense to focus on that and consolidate. The number of people who might moan about it like you are suggesting is very small and they may already own an aero bike, they may not even want to buy a Trek.
Im loving that Dare. Full send, no apologies
No excuses, full thick boy spec ... love it.
@@ChrisMillerCycling as a thicc boy myself, they were never gonna win me over by chasing light weight framesets again. Aero is dead, long live aero ⚔️
I’m so glad I saw this podcast mentioned on a random TCR review, my new favourite show.
Canyon Aeroad... I agree with Chris... the two things that needed fixing, got fixed. There just isn't a need to mess with the rest of it.
Got a slx this year and couldn't agree more.
I love the episodes that recap a race battle between Jesse and Chris
That Dare will be the template frameset that all other brands will iterate towards over the next 5 years.
I’ve got the same bike as Jesse, sweet 2019 TCR Adv SL rim brake. 30mm Conti 5000 clinchers with TPU tubes fit with sufficient clearance on Winspace R33 wheels. Rides smooth on rough rural roads at 65 psi rear and 60 psi front (73 kilos)
Wincing at Jeff’s odd sunglasses cracked me up. That was also my reaction when I saw his video. 😂
This show is damn good guys, keep it up!
Since the current emonda is not terribly light. I rate the new bike and am keen to try it
Cervelo has the Soloist as the All rounder bike, Visma LAB been using it a lot this year
Yeh should have mentioned them
Chris - about the placement of a camera on the bike. In Dylan (finish 17th) Johnson’s video where he describes his Unbound setup, he tested a Insta360 mounted under his bike computer and it tunnel tested FASTER than nothing at all. Something about splitting the air prior to the head tube. Winner
Camera shaped fairing 😅
Dylan could test a coonskin cap and have it come out faster somehow
He finished 10th on the weekend. 1 minute 14 seconds out of third place!!!
It must have worked for him to get top 10. Either that or saving the hairs off his tyres.
Jets sometimes have a “spear” protruding several feet from the nose cone to break the air for aerodynamics.
Cracking episode gents 👏
Cheers Chris
'Madone is not aero enough for us.' Mads Pedersen: 'hold my beer'
Dylan Johnson’s top 10 in unbound not 17th great ride from him with the level of riders.
Damn right .. he killed it! Maybe he used my abuse as inspiration 😁 ... in fact, I know he did
Jesse explaining in far more technical detail to what I stumbled upon many years ago. I was always slower going up the hills, but I become comfortable letting that gap open because I knew once the grade dropped below 7 I had the power to close. I also would inflict damage in the flatter sections, knowing that the lighter, punchier riders would suffer and carry that damage into the hill.
Love the Dare aero bike! Got it on my radar.
I expected some sort of Aussie lovefest for Lachlan winning unbound...and I'm Canadian. Some serious news and tech in there that you guys skipped by. SRAM 13 speed, bike prototypes, race strategy...
Not exciting enough, fastest Unbound ever, more aero optimized bikes than ever, new unreleased groupsets, unreleased frames, components , wheels and tires and never seen before aero jersey with hydration built in, sprint finish for men and women, more europeans and pros than ever,.
The ice water in the bladder in the jersey is a pretty smart hack. Feels like that could really make a difference on a long hot event. I'd assume bladder's of any type are just straight banned for pro riders?
@@AndrewisTri-tn1uo Absolutely, every manufactures will make a jersey with built in bladder, makes a lot of sense , gravel or road
Loved the dare bike , stunning 👍🇮🇪
The Pinarello team had zero power to tell them to stop filming because they were on a public road.
It was pretty much just a marketing stunt.
That doesn't stand up i'm afraid , as you can't exactly film kids just because it's on a public road?
@@Cycle.every.day. You can actually(even tho people think you cant). Once you are in public all limits are off. Harassment is not legal, but there is no right to privacy in public space.
Create mystery! Marketing!!!
It was all staged.
If only bike brands cared as much about their customers as they do about awkward PR stunts
I love listening to you guys!
My money on why the new Trek went more towards the Emonda because it was supposed to be an Emonda before Trek had to start slashing expenses. Scratch out "Emonda" and paint "Madone" over it. There! Excess SKU issues solved!
Fantastic show boys ; listening from Texas
been a susbcriber since chris only got like 10k subscribers and to see this channel grow is awesome, my go to podcast for weekly race result and tech breakdown. Cheers fellas
Thanks man ❤️
"thicker and longer"
Well played sir coyle
well played
I think the aggro ineos mechanic was maybe:
a. Hungover on good wine
.. actually probably just the wine
Cervelo have the aero- S5, climbing- R5, mixed race- Soloist, endurance- Caledonia-5, gravel race- Aspero-5
God bless and speedy recovery to your mates
Chris episode one : TREK IS DEAD!
Chris now: Chris is the biggest bike brand.
😂😂😂😂
Great show boys.
Are you saying I contradicted myself ... me!! ... never 😂
Great explanation of climbing tactics Jesse for those that have a relatively decent sprint energy system to tap into. I've instinctively done it a couple of times out of sheer desperation, but hadn't quite thought of it as a tactic that I can actively plan to use. Having it discussed definitely helps!
What it says is that the various subcategories of road bikes was not really necessary all along. Convergence is occurring as brands make light, comfortable, fast bicycles in one model. It's a good thing.
Agreed. The idea the customer should have all sorts of bike styles to choose from simply because they want it and just because it's abig brand is nuts. If you want a very specific bike ....go and buy a custom one. Companies exist to supply product people will buy and make money. If a company isn't making a money with a particular item, it's not the requirement that everyone else subsidise that product by higher costs with their own product.
Ie, as you say, strip it back to a leaner business and product model and hopefully stop the crazy price increases we've seen happen (though I imagine till people stop buying entirely the prices at large won't go down, they might stop or slow going up, but people are still buying at this price)
Looks like they are making the same mold for Pinarello Dogma and Dogma Electric :D... I bet you could easily fit an electric motor inside.
When major brands are trending towards fewer models in their lineup they are effectively communicating what they see as the economic viability of the current market. We can 'want' as much as we want to about having a broader selection for a brand, however, that does not change the economic reality for the manufacturers. Your discussions of brands and models would be a great topic the next time you have Grant on the channel.
Jeez, first time I've seen an image of Jesse on bike, you are huuuge!!! 😁
Comment of the week!
Make the Madone SLR with H1 or an even more aggressive modern fit (longer reach, longer front-center, steeper STA, 34mm tire clearance)
Make the Madone GTR with H2 fit or "H2.5" fit (normal wheelbase, 38mm tire clearance.)
Make the Checkmate racy gravel bike (long reach, more aero than the Checkpoint.)
Make the Aethos-equivalent bike with external cable routing, a round seatpost, round tubes, etc.
Get rid of the Domane.
Conventional race bike geometry is in a weird place. It's not aggressive enough for the "new school" slammed forward saddle style of race-fit, but it's still too aggressive for the people who just want the aesthetic.
Bang on! That Madone SLR H1 with aggressive fit would be so sweet ... literally no one would buy it, and the people who would buy probably want a big discount because they are the "local fast guy" ... but it would be a sick bike.
Brilliant 👍
Chris, thank you for laughing at Jesse saying "it's not only thick, but it's long." 😂
Marshall mount is my regular loop, yep it’s rough but it’s better than it was before. Well done guys, great racing
Thanks 👍
53:50 sprinter here ✋Thanks for the tip. I’ll try that the next time I’m loosing wheels on a hill.
That giggle at 6:43 😂😂
#thatswhatshesaid
Good racing tip from Jesse about surviving short, punchy climbs. But yeah, you need confidence that you are strong enough to sprint back to the front group. There are always these super strong riders who manage to maintain high speeds after climbs like that.
That new Dogma is motor dope ready.
Great climbing tip from Coyle.
Glad it was helpful!
If a new bike doesn’t come with a 27.2mm standard seat post, I’m not interested.
Especially a climbing / every day road bike.
In fact, scrap proprietary handlebar and stem combos too 🤝
100% agree on the Valtteri take.. I couldn’t care less about him or his input.
Cervelo do.. the soloist as apparently it’s sits between s5 and r5 and then they have the Caledonia
I think the Soloist doesn’t get much love because it’s not one of the 5 series and ends up being a bit meh not particularly light not particularly aero not particularly unique. The Cervelo name is the most appealing thing on the Soloist and ultimately why I passed on one of the
Cervelo has the 4 bike you guys are talking about. S5, R5, Soloist and Caledonia. Jumbo has been using the Soloist in races. With Sram Red or Dura Ace and depending on what wheels you put on you can that bike down to 7.1-7.2kg.
New Dogma with that humunguous bottom bracket looks like an e-bike.
That's my first thought as well. Turn up to the club handicap on that and someone will be requesting the ultrasound machine for sure.
My point exactly... In a different comment slightly after your pearl of wisdom!
Addendum - Cervelo has an allrounder race bike in the Soloist. Same geometry as the R5 with aero changes to pull it closer to the S5.
There is NO CHANCE that JC sticks with this new 'alternative' rig long term. Gonna run to that new disc brake TCR with open arms after a spell... Guaranteed! Ha!
Loving your take on the "thiick & also long" Dogma bb 🤣
Looks like the Dogma ate the karma! --ba da boom!
@10:35 are the thru axle bolts now hidden on the right fork?
I hope you get the Dogma Chris and Jesse please make the race vid. Bring on 3 hrs 😂
Hopefully you'll guys will talk about unbound? Maybe get Dylan on the podcast?
Is the close call because of the color of the helmet or is it because it blocks the ear, so you don't hear as well as you can with other normal helmet? I'm concerned 'cause I''ve bought the POC helmet. It's on the way.
Cervelo soloist is the all round offering
What happens if the Modonda is actually tested faster? You think the aero nuts will not want it because it "looks slower"?
You asking arm chair experts to chime in?
@@ciprian7 I guess the question is sort of rhetorical.
Wouldn't be surprised, the sl8 performs better aero-wise than the old Venge
You can't see aero, but you can hear it 😂. Seriously though, if this tests faster than the old Madone I'm going full conspiracy. How we were being sold big thick heavy aero bikes for a decade, now to be told their skinny lighter cousins are faster?!?
@@ChrisMillerCycling The sl8 manages to overcome the venge by a series of system optimizations and most importantly the roval rapide cockpit. It’s not surprising that the new bikes have better aero innovations despite seemingly regressing in deep section tubing because pre covid the focus was purely on modular cda and not on system cda which we found out was more important and led to advancement such as moving to wider wheels because we realized just making the wheels more aerodynamic/narrow didn’t make them more efficient as a leading edge on a bike with a rider and modern air foil rims. However I think the Venge with modern parts will definitely be similarly aerodynamic to the sl8 given a track test for instance.
I was also told by panda podium that the Arow is only arriving somewhere middle of July. Eagerly looking forward to your Arow review. I think it was officially launched in the Market. Seka Spear is similar. Launched in China domestic market, but international market launch is in July.
Dylan Johnson or Alex Dowsett tested GoPro on bike and found it provides aero benefits having it mounted on the front.
Should do an Aussie perspective 1 hour podcast rating of unbound bike setups and how to improve gravel
I'm curious if a club level gravel series thing could be a thing in Australia. If people do want and are keen for long 'road' races, and road closures are the problem, it seems like a monthly gravel race 60km out of the city would be a solution? I know there's tons of gravel events in Australia but it seems like the vast majority are fondo/adventure type things for old people. Actual race events are very rare?
Cervelo does exactly what you say. R5, Soloist, Caledonia, and the aero one
Also recommend starting a climb at the front of the bunch and drifting slowly backwards to save the legs, then make a hard effort of the top like Jesse mentioned and catch up on the descent
Can i get your thoughts on the Polygon Helios A8X.
It definitely looks like a mondonda. The days of the chunky aero bike are coming to an end.
I also got cut off by a right turning car while going 38km/h last week. Sounds like we had a pretty similar incident
How does the Domane not compete against the Defy? Also, they have a Domane RSL that’s more aggressive than a Tarmac. However it’s a frameset only.
It might have been revealed before but it's really out now, what the nero bike is.
Great discussion as always!
Regarding a reduction in models within a brands range, the pro’s are spoilt. Back as soon and the 90’s or 2000’s bikes were basically round tubes, and pros ride the same bike for everything.
Great point!
I think it's the black for sure on that Procen AIR
I always welcome another opportunity to hear Jesse, our great rim-brake advocate. And I still think Chris is being shady, acting like the big guy more qualified than Jesse to ride the disc-brake Giant. 😀
Not more qualified, just more willing to ride and talk about my experience at the moment. Like we said, Coyle was already down the road of sorting the “China build”, so the timing of finding this TCR didn’t work for him. I should also mention, getting him to chance his socks is hard enough, getting him to change to a TCR Disc for a few weeks then change again to the China build … yeh good luck with that.
That said, I’m cynical that the real reason he didn’t want to ride the TCR was because he would alienate himself from his legion of “Coyle Fans” by riding and liking a new big brand disc brake bike. Potential show topic for next week.
I work at a Shop that stocks Treks, and I got a little insight from the rep into the new Madone (yes, it will be called the Madone). Apparently, it's as light as the current Emonda and as fast as the current Madone, but I'm guessing there is a big asterisk in that you have to use aero bottles to be just as aero.
Yep I'm sure that's the case. They are going to completely ignore the fact that if they put aero bottles on the gen 7, then new one would not be matching it.
Interesting the comments on the black POD helmet as that's what I was considering buying, then I saw the price! About 7 years ago I used to race with a Giro Air Attack, honestly no one seemed to give a damn. And that helmet did look stupid! I think the POD helmet looks good.
Might be awkward here Chris but the best bikes for Jessie undoubtedly Bianchi . The oltre is exactly what he wants fast aero light and or the speciallisma is a beauty .. absolute beauty . Sort it Jessie #celesteisbest
Never heard one person glaze Bianchi this much
Coyle race tips 👌
Still prefer the Ribble aero!
Main take out for this week. Dylans tenth at Unbound
With team mates like Chris, Jesse doesn't need any adversaries 😎😎
I think you would be surprised how many Trek Domane’s are sold to the average rider or older rider and throughly enjoy their experience
Jesse what you on about. Trek have Madone (aero race bike), Domane (endurance road bike with big tyre clearance), Emonda (climbing, light race bike), Checkpoint (gravel)..where you getting this only 2 road bike lineup thing?!
My belief is that the new Madone is in fact the Emonda. This bike will have gone into development as soon as the Gen7 Madone went on sale as the Emonda was due for a refresh. The financials came around which resulted in the 40% reduction in SKU decision. TREK could not possibly have dropped the Madone branding, so the new Emonda had to come to the market as the Madone.
Is there any trickle with the thick and long Pinarello?
😂
"mixed-race bike" lol
orange is the best helmet and kit colour
Trek Infinity ..... If thats what it ends up being you've seen it here lol Also, I feel chris is right new endurance bike.... The Checkmate.
1st ride on the new Trek=1st victory,
You could fit a big motor in the Dogma bb area 😮
"think and long" HAHA! Chris was dying to say say something. So I did.
That ‘Ineos guy’ was Steve Cummings
Those supersix aero cage/bottles were over 100 grams for the set!
Domane is not a ”gravel” you can race on it, my friend has the RSL domane with 32mm tires and we rode at 43km/h on 100km gran fondo With 9 cyclist in the frontgrounp. So just a fast and comfy bike😜💪
Agree, I also race on a Domane. It's not the dream, but slammed the stem, changed the wheels, and at 8,5kg it gets the job done. It's 99% about the rider anyways...
Pinarello completely designed the new bottom bracket for hiding a motor in there🙄
Hats off to Trek on an almost free launch campaign for their new all-in-one
I know right ... the more I thin about the ore I feel like it was a big brain move.
New Dogma has BB room for a small road bike motor :)
They had that helmet at the POC booth at Unbound but they didn't know about last week's coverage on the Nero show...so I pointed them in your direction.
Cheers Man ... not surprised, bike industry people don't tend to watch this stuff (thankfully)
@@ChrisMillerCycling My apologies for pointing them in your direction. 😏
Trek: there is also Boone (cyclocross, which is a brilliant racy all road), Domane is meant to be an endurance all road. I think it’s spot on for the market. I think it’s not going anywhere in concept, just refinements to execution
You might get some interesting data from the CdA sensor in an indoor velodrome. Outside? Nah, I really doubt it. I find it hard to imagine it would be any more use in a race like that than just a speed:power:grade comparison already shows.