What is the Most Overrated Thing in the Bike Industry?
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2023
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First video from the MADE show in Portland, OR.
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Overrated: A new bike
Underrated: The bike you have
“Most overrated thing in the industry.. is price point.” Bingo!
Have you seen the price of a steel bike? Carbon is cheaper
That’s true and ridiculous at the same time.
Ironic coming from Chumba...
Ironic coming from a whole segment of biking where people spend money on overpriced components and bags and bikes costing insane amounts of money in pursuit of a granola aesthetic.
That’s rich coming from Chumba who quoted me at $8k for a hardtail…
I loved the content of this interview but I have to be honest... The biggest takeaway from this was how many nutty characters are involved in custom bike building 😂
This vid almost looked like an episode of Portlandia
Thank god. Who needs more suits :)
Thank you for saying it out loud and in a polite way.
Stay weird!
If you think they're weird, you should take a look at the customers! 🤣
Overrated: fully internal cables Underrated: full fenders
Yes to fenders! I have them on two of my bikes and they make a world of difference. Easily the best thing you can add to your ride to make it that much more enjoyable and extend your riding window to include all types of weather!
15 years of commuting in Seattle, putting the bike on buses, leaning it up against something the wrong way, the ulock or cable lock pulling the fender out of alignment, lazy wheel alignment, toe overlap. God don't even talk about changing tire size. Gave it up; it rains, you get wet, with or without. Bliss, sort of.
@@patricksheahan6530 no, I don’t get wet with fenders
@@patricksheahan6530It's important that the fenders are long enough, especially on the front wheel.
There's too short and there's SKS Longboard :-D
Word! I've been riding year round in Wisconsin since I was a teenager (I'm 45 now) and I just put fenders on a bike for the first time this year and they are wonderful! I should have done it sooner. Even in the dry they keep road grit off my chain and extend it's life.
Totally agree to what the guy said "we're losing sight of the simplicity of why we're riding bikes in the first place" .👍👍
yep , I take a no thanks of electronic shifting etc.
When you cycle for fitness or competition simplicity is not the primary goal as long as complexity doesn't affect price and reliability too much. Granted, both are missed by e-shifting though. 😂
@@snigs5T5 I was 10 days in spain training camp. 50 people. 15 e-shift. I felt like every second day someone with e-shift had a problem. And next to ridiculous price once you crash the replacements cost a fortune and delivery time is eternal. E-shift imao the most useless and overpriced pseudo convenience 🤷♂️.
@@snigs5T5 The failures are no opinion. They are fact. I'm not trying to convince you. You made your decision and you likely never admit it was a bad one. No matter what may happen in the future. That is human. I give fact based contra hype advice to those who are undecided. And Im fairly convinced you don't have the skills to repair a broken electronic derailleur, but admitted I may be wrong you might work at shimano or something like that.
That same guy said dropper posts... as MTBr, dropper post are the best innovation for MTB in the last 15 years, hands down.
Underrated: Losing body fat, rather than stressing about bike weight or hemoglobin levels.
When I started bicycling, I lost over forty pounds. That beats pretty much any magic bicycle unobtanium. Simple recognition that the rider, not the bike, dominates the weight equation.
I always found it amusing when a guy with a beer belly would spend thousands of dollars to get a bike that weighed one less pound.
I was a bike messenger for five years - very lean. That was almost thirty years ago.Since then I've gained a lot.Last year I started commuting to work by bike, and man did my butt hurt! So much more weight in a tiny area. It too k a month of riding before I could ride and not think about how much my behind ached. So yes, losing weight will definitely make riding bearable. Steel frames rule! Carbon fiber? Nah.
Underrated: getting a heavy bike with "tight is right" cups and cones to lose weight faster
@@443DMIt's a matter of priorities: Outright speed? Or lower cost and a workout?
Most underrated is kickstands, specifically centerstands. I bikepack with a VO Copenhagen centerstand and it's my single favorite accessory on my whole build! It's unbelievably convenient for access to my bags, doing drivetrain maintenance/repairs, stopping wherever I want and having the bike properly propped up, and just storing the bike in the garage. I never got why people like taking pictures of their bikes laying down in the middle of the trail, like you just limped away from a crash. Your bike deserves better!
Agree
100% this. Disappointed that kickstands weren't mentioned
I ended up grabbing a click-stand maxi for my touring bike and love it. No way I'm dumping my bike all day or wrestling with it to get in my panniers.
+1 for clickstand. So versatile.
Thumbs up for this comment! Most shops near me don’t even carry kickstands-
"I'll let headsets go until they're, like, indexed" -- that's art, man!
Must never take his hands off the bars.
Definitely agree with Martina....PLP is waaaaay Underrated!
Me too. ❤
Plp?
@@mathewreinhart8211 Path Less Pedaled, this youtube channel
@@mathewreinhart8211 the channel. Path Less Pedaled
I love the guy in the leaf shirt who called out tubeless tires and clipless pedals!
Love an anti-snob!!
I don't mind my clipless pedals, but as someone who has multiple sew-up wheelsets, I do resent having new wheel tech shoved down my throat.
Look like he lives on prayer, or he got shot though the ❤️ or something.
I'm a cyclist because I can't stand hiking, no thanks on tubes. I've had my fair share of pinch punctures, I like to run on lower PSI on some downhill trails, tubeless (IMO) is the only way to go. Know on wood, but I haven't had a single (stranded in the trail) puncture with tubeless...
Underrated: Aluminum (performance for cheap) and 26inch. There was nothing wrong with them.
26” for what type of biking though? I think 29” was a great upgrade for my mountain bike
@@captainjacobkeyes673326 for commuting in the city. Bike gets a smaller footprint, you can get old but bulletproof MTB parts for cheap, etc.
aluminum is so harsh and so unnecessary. You can easily find carbon frames for the same price that are lighter and more comfortable, or steel frames that are heavier and way more comfortable.
@@l.d.t.6327 carbon is usually an 600-800 dollar premium for the entry level frame sets.
They are less resilient to damage but they are more efficiently (stiffer bottom bracket) and usually more compliant.
So there is case to make either way.
@@1barnet1 There are tons of cheap 2nd hand or Chinese carbon framesets around 3-600 dollar. They are more compliant, stiffer in the BB and ligher, and thus a more comfy and enjoyable ride. Why anyone would still buy an aluminum race bike, except for very smooth asphalt crits, is beyond me.
Only one that bothered me was droppers. That thing sent mtb into another dimension. It is simply amazing what it's done to the sport in terms of ability and fun, and frankly made it way safer. There are some really affordable functional models at this point. My single speed mtb with no shifter on the right has a dropper lever on the left lol, it is completely worth having. I live in Colorado btw
Cannot agree more. That guy clearly doesn't ride dirt.
exactly what I was thinking. After I tried a bike with a dropper for the first time there's no way I could go back
Almost all bike builders have a bit of narcissism that spills out when provoked with such deep questions as “how’s it going?”,
Now that cyclocross season is starting I’m missing my dropper more and more
@@ksnaxRonnie actually used to be an XC racer in his earlier years, he has some photos up on The Radavist when he used to compete
Yeah! PLP…most underrated. 😊
Friction shifting of course!
🎉
She was right! Path Less Pedaled is influencing things for the better.
The show was great, but with regard to “price point” these guys are generally making super expensive custom bikes for enthusiasts, not your average bike rider. They would not cater for those of us wanting an “entry level” bike or even a mid-range bike of quality.
Curmudgeons of the world UNITE!!!
Overrated? Carbon Fiber.
Underrated? Metal.
Underrated - bikes for commuting and everyday use. Car replacement, not competition. Upright riding position, comfort oriented, automatic shifting. Bikes that keep people as comfortable and safe as possible to handle every day life.
Absolutely. Love my hybrid gravel bike. Broke everything on it twice so finally upgraded to a good GRX drivetrain that should last.
Definitely!
It depends how far you commute, I used to commute 34 miles per day, 5 days per week for 25 years all year, in all weathers. An upright bike would have been a nightmare against the wind, rain, snow and hail over a long distance. My racing bike with clip on TT bars made the job faster and easier to get to work and back and with it having multiple hand positions, very comfortable over a distance.
@@stevezodiac491 but that's not the case for the vast majority of people, so clearly not talking about a situation like yours
Dropper post is underrated. Really. It's taken for granted on the new bikes from the shops, but a lot of people, including me, were not convinced, that they ever need a dropper, more like the opposite. I was absolutely sure, that I don't need it on my 2012 full suspension trail 29er. But when I got to the mountain trails, I tired of messing with saddle height after 2 or 3 rides, and convinced myself to buy cheapest possible (93 euros) dropper. And after first ride I thought "I shoul've installed it 10 years ago". But, at the same time, droppers are easily most overpriced part now. Second place of "overpriceness", right after hydraulic disc brake road/gravel shifters.
Yep...100%!
I only really ride XC trails these days, but like you was cynical about the dropper...........until I got one, wouldn't want to ride off road without one now
I also feel they haven't been exploited to help older (and shorter) riders on "regular" commuter/utilitarian bikes...
I think that many modern bikes are designed assuming that they will be equipped with a dropper post, which compromises the geometry when you don't have one.
It was a night and day experience for me too when I first bought a dropper post. I really like the PNW ones. They're not super expensive and just work well. Same with hydraulic disc brakes. My Shimano deores have been nothing short of reliable and easy to maintain. Although for DH, I love my Hayes 4 pot stoppers lol.
Any off-road riding warrants a dropper imo. Not fire roads, singletrack
@@stuartdilts2729what “many modern” Bikes were designed for dropper but don’t have one that make it hard to use a seat post? I really find this statement wild lol
I cannot believe, as the most underrated, belt drive was not mentioned with either internal hubs or pinion gear boxes. Thumbs up to the flat pedals for a decade now, and my knees couldn't be happier.
I'd flip that around and say chains. Cheaper, ubiquitous, and no special frame modifications required. On certain bikes a belt is better, but the cost precludes use by many riders.
@@seitenryu6844 Ever commute in winter on roads treated with road salt? Yeah, those gears, derailleur, and chains have to be cleaned, dried, and lubed 2-3 times a day in those conditions. The belt drive and internal hub have been a godsend for me, and ultimately comparable in price considering what I didn't have to replace as a result of the belt drive system.
If you have to leave the bike outside, or use it daily through rain and pollution, then the hub + belt seems like a good alternative. But for leisure and occasional rides, you mostly get a less efficient, much more expensive bike with a belt.
My submission for underrated is the 3-speed hub (geared with 3rd as a single-speed ratio).
It gives *almost* the benefits of a single-speed, but without having to stand up and crank to accelerate slowly from stop (huge benefit in traffic), and gives you relief for hills, but remains incredibly durable and low maintenance, at the cost of
So true! I built a "single speed" with an old Sachs Torpedo 3-speed hub. These things are indestructable and easy to service. Loads of maintanance videos online. Looks like a single speed, but is better in almost every way.
Heinz Stücke can confirm! 43 of his 52 years, 530,000km with a 3speed bicycle. Total 196 countries, 78 territories, 648,000km.
Yes! All I need 90% of the time is 3 gears: start, easy, fast. and snow/mud/ice/salt/sand proof
Indeed - if your area is very hilly it might not go low enough, and if your distances are long and you're trying to eke out the shortest journey times, then the wide ratios may be constraining, e.g. spinning in 2nd when 3rd is a stretch, and I spin out at 22mph. But if you are OK with taking a few percent longer , it's an incredibly versatile set of gears. With 3rd as a single-speed ratio I only use 1st for setting off from stationary or for the steepest hills. Efficient too.
I do use derailleurs a lot for the (Boston urban) commute in good weather, for the close ratios but not so much for the extra range. Every time I have to buy a new cassette I wonder if I should just use the 3-speed, that needs a very occasional service or new $10 cog.
Doesn't begin to give a low enough ratio for hilly cities such as Athens GA. I rode a three speed here as a kid and walked that thing up many, many hills many, many times.
Aluminum is severely underrated. The shapes they can create now are aero, and the welds are getting smoother. You can build up an aluminum frame to be as light as a carbon bike.
Yup. Almost as light as carbon (not that weight really matters anyway), and almost as durable as titanium (not that frame corrosion is ever going to be a problem in your lifetime anyway).
If aluminum was more expensive than carbon, everyone would be raving about aluminum frames.
But it’ll ride worse and won’t be as durable as steel. It’s cheap way to make a delicate light and stiff bike.
Doesn't aluminium work harden due to vibration?
@@uvwuvw-ol3fg It work-hardens and ultimately fails due to fatigue loading; in order to combat this frames are built heavier which in turn makes them stiffer and less comfortable. Crap choice of material for a bike frame IMO and yet another example of change for the sake of it / focus on one attribute (mass) of questionable value for marketing purposes, while ignoring all the drawbacks (harsh ride and short service life).
I've only owned one ally-framed bike - was a proper bone-shaker and eventually died after maybe 5-6k miles as the frame cracked due to the above reasons. Needless to say I'll not be entertaining the idea of another..
@@Mike-de7wv what material do u ride
Honestly, the most underrated thing is hybrid bikes. They had gravel geometry years before anyone knew what that was. If you're into building up your own bikes, then you can pick up an old frame for a song and build up a super comfy drop bar bike that's unique to you.
I remember watching a GCN video where they were talking about their gravel bikes having absolute _chonky_ tires at 30+ mm...meanwhile my hybrid came standard with 38s and I thought _that_ was on the skinny side!
Shhh.....you'll cut into their mantra and profits!
I dont know how you define "hybrid" but from my experience, the large majority of hybrid bikes from the past has NOT a "gravel geometry" but a MTB-like Geometry with looong top tubes and high bottom brackets. I converted a hybrid to a budget gravel bike myself and searched several years - yes YEARS - for one with a suitable Geometry for drop bar conversion (btw. a 1991s Peugeot "Boston").
I put a gravel bike together all from parts and frame left over from years of bike building and upgrades. 2006 Gt idrive with 5'inch suspension -michelin country rock 60psi gravel tires . This is a high speed urban shredder with so much comfort with the 5 inch suspension. Cost 50$ total (tires)
when you put small tires on a mtb frame the BB drops almost a inch and old mtbs did not have long top tubes lol they had long stems.@@martinkrautter8325
Overrated: anything race related. Underrated: adventure related
Yeah this was pretty echo chamber-y. Who could have guessed people who make custom bikes to look cool and be unique aren't going to like race bikes.
@roddyeskew3909 most people don't like race bikes. these are Bike People, they would be the ones to say it, reliability and practicality is better for everyone else that doesn't race
@@drivebay6479I think there's considerable value in a classic race bike _if_ you're seeking to cover significant distance at a good speed. I think modern race bikes are silly unless you're planning to take out a license and race.
@@christopheroliver148 a license?
I love a good sealed square taper bottom bracket.
It’s hard to beat, for sure
good enough for older campanolo , good enough for me
They are fun, until you have to replace an old one. Once they are stuck, only way of getting them out is by heating them up with a flame torch. And yes I do use the proper removal tool.
I rather have some nice SRAM Dub screw in bottom brackets, much easier to work with.
Lbs owner here. Non standard bottom brackets. There are over 40 different types and they go extinct every day. Are real problem to find so buy some spares now to have for the future.
Most overrated lately has been electronic shifting; part of what makes bikes so wonderful (for me) is not having to rely on charging a bunch of small batteries. My phone and lights are enough to mind. And I agree that the internal hub is underrated. If you live in a city, and have to stop for lights and signs, they're amazing.
Electronic shifting on manual bikes doesn’t make much sense to me, but on e bikes it makes a huge difference. Not just gearbox drive but also with UDH and electronic shifting, the drivetrain is much more durable. It’s apples to oranges imo.
@@matthewshultz8762 I haven’t seen that, but it sounds reasonable. Electronic shifting on manual bikes just feels like too much
Yeah I can see use cases for it (as mentioned, E-bikes. Hell I think belt drive trains should probably be more popular for E-bikes too). On gravel and mountain it feels backwards. I tried a Trek MTB with GX AXS on it for a couple weeks (loaner bike while mine was in the shop). I had zero feedback which gear I was in and couldn't tell how many I shifted up or down (which coming from an XTR mechanical shifter was reaaaaaally annoying). Then add in battery hassles I just don't see the point.
Electronic shifting totally underrated. Set it and forget it. Automatic front derailleur trimming.
Headset routing is a terrible trend too
I agree that dynamos are severely underrated. Once I got a dynamo hub, I wondered why I waited so long. I now have a dynamo hub on two of my bikes, the two I ride the most. Square taper BBs are also great, because they are a durable standard, and whatever the professed disadvantages they have are really not severe.
Yeah, we wouldn't put up with having to charge and attach lights to a car every time we wanted to use it. And decent ones make you more visible during the day too.
All three of my bikes have dynamos, best thing in have ever done with my bikes.
Yeah, I hate to admit it but I didn't want a dynamo front hub on my bike because I was worried about the hub's strength when hitting the ruts. So far my Son dynamo is holding up. It just sits there most of the time but when I need light, bam, there it is. No charging no having to wonder. Yes I can slightly feel it drag but only when going up inclines. It is really hard to tell and is more of a cumulative fatigue over miles. I think it must be due to the hubs weight, like a rock-solid Phil Wood stainless hub.
@@markmoreno7295 maybe the sun hubs are different but the shimano hubs have not changed and is as clunky as 80 year old technology, and so difficult to adjust the bearings. most cities have plenty of light unless you find yourself in unknown territory, so unless you are charging a phone, all the energy is just wasted, compared to the old school generator that ran off the tire when needed...
Agreed. I have a dynamo on my newest bike and it's great.
Overrated: wireless shifters. One more complex thing to break down in the middle of a ride. Worst yet, batteries die while riding. Keep it simple.
Underrated: Flat Pedals. I had clips but they are a pain during the commute to work. Switched to flats and haven’t looked back since.
Underrated: Friction shifting & triples.
Most underrated is the 3x!! Wide range and cadence steps… best of both worlds
And cheap cassettes & chains as well.
My road bike has 3x. Yep, a bit heavier but a good trade when staring up at a massive climb. It doesn’t look “pro” but I don’t give a rip about looking pro. 🙂
When the bike industry has finished selling everyone 1x you can be sure 3x will be the next hot thing.
@@thepandaman i always forget to change out the chain... meh, an 8sp cassette is ~18bucks less if you can stand black.
Yes - the perfect touring set up......
Under rated: step through frames?
Yes! Many of us can’t get our leg over especially when there’s a loaded rack. I bicycled from Chicago to NYC and could only get on & off my loaded bike if I had a way to lean it. What a pain. Especially for many of us as we get older.
You did a great job giving a feel for what it was like to be at this show in the way that you put this video together, which I don't think is easy give the cavernous space and the lighting conditions. I was there on the Sunday, and saw you and your wife there. Wanted to say hi but you were busy with conversations and I didn't want to intrude. I really enjoyed the show, hope you guys did too.
Bike industry killed 26” wheels, sad for shorter riders like me around 5’6
Hahaha. 5’6” is short? Try 4’9”. I have a Cannondale Quick 2 with an extra small frame & 26 inch wheels. They stopped making it in that size 2012. People often ask why I don’t get a kid’s bike. It’s an insult.
Maybe you can still find an 650B in size extra small that fits well.
Don’t be offended by female color schemes though.
@@thenormalberries6767 I'm 5'7 and find 29ers to be awkward. I live in a place with really technical trails and 27.5 gives extra maneuverability. YMMV
My buddy who is 5ft nothing on a good hair day rides one of those awesomer terry's scaled on 24in wheels.
Riders below 5'10 tall look funny on 29'ers. Like clowns in a circus.
I dunno. Being able to go to any bike shop and buy a hanger for my bike sounds like a good deal to me. I thought frame builders are all rejoicing for UDH.
Also, outboard BBs are really good. Super reliable. Super easy to maintain. Press fit, on the other hand is not. Those are overrated.
In the video that guy later alluded to square taper bbs so I think it’s more of ‘square taper axles are plenty good’. External bbs only arose from the development of larger, stiffer BB axles
Yea UDH is great. Was never a fan of electronic shifting till the new UDH stuff. Plus the derailleur sram makes for the frame is a tank and comes apart like legos. It’s awesome. Di2 sucks though. Outboard BB is my favorite set up.
Thanks !!! Nobody mentioned 26' inch wheelsize !! Sooo underrated .
Long live 26” !
Yeah great for dirt jump bikes!
*_LOVE_*_ all the responses from these insightful insiders_ -- this was the first video I watched after a quick shopping trip on my steel, single speed Wabi w/ flat pedals
👍
I have to agree with almost all of the under and over ratings given. I loved the guy taking about the geometry on most new production bikes being setup for professional racers. He sounded almost identical to bike fit James on Cade Media who constantly complains how most new bikes are setup for young skinny professional racers, even endurance bikes are sometime setup wrong. PLP is definitely underrated and should be much higher.
Ha ha, yes, I noticed that too. Yet too many people won't be told that race bikes aren't for them.....
GCN stating how fatter tires, tubeless while weighing more are more aerodynamic is over the top. The gains optimized for an Olympic rider are still marginal. Guess you save the added weight by weight lost in your wallet.
Just make the bike cost-effective, simple, easy to maintain, reasonably comfortable and lightweight without hurting the bucks and also make it open for utility purpose for bike to work, bikepacking and market/ grocery duties.
Consider the Surly Preamble. Steel 1x9, 11-36 with a 40t crank, threaded BB, mechanical disc brakes on QR wheels with 35mm tubed tires, plus more fender and rack mounts than you'll ever need for under $1k.
Easy to maintain usually means having to maintain it more often.
Cost effective equals heavier
Lightweight hurts cost effective.
Making it good for utility adds more weight. Especially bike packing. More expensive too due to all the required accessoires. Lights racks fastening options, fenders.
What you speak is impossible. We all need to be aware that everything is an compromise. Just pick the compromise that suits your needs.
@@MementoMorIan mechanical disc brakes need constant attention.
1x9 derailleur needs constant cleaning
Yes the work is easy and can be done everywhere. But it would be an lousy commuter bike.
Such a good video! Bikes are simple, elegant, and beautiful machines. The "industry" is profit hunting. They want us to buy "the next flashy item." New is not necessarily better, or more fun.
Word!!
A very impressive collection of retrogrouches (I say this with love)
really insightful answers, tons of wisdom distilled in these minutes
thanks!
Dropper posts and tubeless tires are game changers for actual trail riding. Tubeless is far lighter more supple going over roots etc and hello self seal in the case of a puncture.
Generally tubeless set ups use fatter tires and lower air pressure to achieve greater traction and shock absorption. Fatter tires weigh more and have greater rolling resistance. Not to mention if a tubeless goes bad on the trail it is much harder to fix than just patching a tube. Have you ever seen a guy on the side of the trail trying to stuff a donated tube into a slime filled tire after the bead busted off the rim? I have witnessed it more than once. Its about impossible to re set a tire bead with a hand pump on the trail.
Rode my steel Minivelo with silver parts, swept back bars, square taper bottom bracket, flat pedals, front rack and basket today. ❤Fun seeing this video after my ride.
This is so awesome! I love hearing from industry specialists what their preferences are. Thank you! Love this channel.
Agree with the last comment in the video. I think you're speaking for an approach to biking that is far more in synch with my attitude than the lycra wearing roadies. Long may you prosper!!
most under rated??? This channel, Thanks for Keeping it simple
Great meeting you at the show! I agree with most all of these.
Rim brakes are underrated. Sure, discs stops better overall, but for most rides rim brakes perform just fine and they are lighter, cheaper and easier to work with. I wish bike manufacturers still provide rim brake options on higher end frames.
Couldn’t disagree more! Death to the rim brake!
Unless you live in the rainy mountains and fjords like me there’s really no need for disc brakes on a road bike. I switched to disc mainly because the weather and terrain here eat rims for breakfast and a wheel set was usually toast after a year or two.
@@ketle369 er du Norsk?
Disc brakes rule! I remember when using rim brakes watching my rims grind down until they split after 12 months when riding on millstone grit in the Peak District in UK. Also great mud catchers.
I ride there too, done exactly that @@stevemartin5448.
I’m sure that 1x drivetrains have their place, but wherever that is they shouldn’t be the sole option on so many new bikes.
They shouldn’t even be an option on anything save a mountainbike
@1barnet1 Disagree. With 11/12 speeds, you can easily have a good range for road / gravel riding on a 1x system. I get that some people don't want to use them, but for a lot of people a 1x is all they need and they should always have that option.
@@LukeRichardson1981 I am not debating the range. I am debating the massive gaps when you have the needed range
And the downsides of an 2 by system are less of an concern on the road or on gravel roads. And gravelbikes with an 2 by are more easily converted to an roadbike with an simple wheelchange.
Hard disagree. I just did a fully loaded road tour for two weeks in Japan. I have a 36T chainring with a 11-42 cassette. It was all the gearing I needed even with some crazy climbs. Additionally I HATE always switching back and forth between the big and small rings. 1X gives linear gear ratios that require much less thought
Triple cranksets are very Underrated; range they provide is incredible ✌️
False. 60% of those gears are duplicate ratios.
Maybe so but on a compact crank set I feel neurotic shifting so much. Going from 52-34 is dramatic and I then have to adjust cassette.With triple I can merely drop from 52 to 42 and pedal blissfully on…..✌️
Thank goodness for eBay!
4:01 can I call it, the next big thing in cycling - mini velos - that neutrino in the background is a thing of beauty, mini velos are tHe urban bike.
You have so many videos that have shaped my views & this is one that has reenforced a lot of things. Thank you Russ & Laura as your point of view is SO bloody important to many many people from around the world & you guys bring us together!!!!!!!!!!!!
There seems to be an overall agreement that technology for technology's sake is not appreciated....yet the bike industry still pushes it out there. Don't they listen to focus groups? I loved this video for exposing this issue in full view!
I agree, but I don’t think the bike industry does. Their actions indicate they are more interested in appealing to status hunters with deep pockets.
Because this group (and this channel's community) is not representative of the cycling community as a whole. It's a tiny minority that exists as a niche, but does not have the influence to sway the entire industry.
@@tinglydingleI would rather argue that the group going for the new expensive releqses are the niche group, but they are targeted with lot of money, as companies can sell them all the new gear more easily.
@@tinglydinglei disagree, i believe the majority of people that ride bicycles would rather just ride a simple bike. Most people riding bicycles are not pros. They want something simple
@@torito880 To be blunt, "most people" don't give a shit about bikes, they just buy the cheapest option from Walmart or Halfords. This is an enthusiast community every bit as much as the viewers of GCN Tech, normal people don't care about their frame material, mudguard mounts, electric gears, ratcheting friction shifters, aerodynamics, or tyre clearance, they just want "a bike." The only difference between "us" and "them" is we prefer steel and chrome, and they prefer carbon fibre and titanium. We're a niche, and we shouldn't mistake our preference for simplicity for being a regular consumers: we're the hipsters of the cycling world. It's just that the dentists have more buying power than us, so the industry caters more to them.
Underrated: Fenders.
Overrated: electronic shifting and internal routed cables.
Underrated: classic touring bikes, and baskets.
Underrated: Riser mtb bars, base Deore drivetrain
Overrated: High engagement hubs/extra loud hubs
Much love for this survey and the points mentioned.
More and consistent standards would be amazing. Usually I tend to nostalgia too but we won‘t turn back time. Some of the changes aren‘t that bad.
Whatever you call your N+1, allroad, hybrid or gravel bike…as long as it fits you well, has the spec’s you really need and brings you to amazing places, everything is alright.
That girl nailed it. You guys most definitely inspire, create, and drop knowledge on a regular. Appreciate all your hard work!
Great coverage. Looked like you were having fun - - and fun to watch too. Thanks!
I agree with the last comment, y'all are keeping my inbox very well balanced between my other ridiculous high end + weight weenie feeds with your well-thought out + honest gear + attitude. Thanx for all ya do!!!
I thought it was bold for the Rodriguez shirt guy to say "headsets" but that's logically pretty accurate. No one needs a $200 headset with handmade bearings. I think underrated is internal routing. I know it gets hate from builders and youtubers like PLP, but it's aesthetically pleasing to see no cables.
But changing a simple inner wire requires 2-3 labor hours
I dont think the cables are visible enough to justify the internal routing. Lugged steel IS the most bike-like bike out there and its not good with internal routing. And lets be honest... Internals are only internal through the frame and are just as visible on the more visible parts.
@@denisrogers4358not necessarily. I see what you are getting at but some companies like Niner really nail the internal routing making the bikes clean AND easy to work on. No crazy cable fishing.
@@denisrogers4358 I'm not an expert with internal mechanical, but I built my own bike from the frame for the first time this year (internally routed w/ di2 hydraulic) and I'd done things like replace worn cables on externally routed frames before, and I found it somewhat easier for me (someone who doesn't work on bikes every single day) to use a cheap magnetic tool to route the internal cables than it was to figure out how long to cut my housing (x7) for brake and shift cable housing. Chasing ferrules under tables after they fall off and roll under a table, crimping stabby cable ends, etc. I've gotten the lengths wrong before, and it can screw up braking or shifting... With the hydro and wireless it was only 2 hydro tube lengths to figure out, and they're much easier to cut than metal-sheathed housing - I could sneak up on the right length.
I definitely don't see how changing an inner wire could ever take 2-3 hours, perhaps that's bike shops overcharging. Maybe the first iterations of integrated cockpits were probably over-complicated and difficult, so maybe that's skewing perceptions a bit. I look at systems like Allied, No22, the new Ritchey system, and they're pretty well thought out.
Actually I think wrapping your cables under your bar tape is over-rated. Now there is no big lump under my bar tape. My tiny hands can grab the bar so much easier. So many more hand positions now. My Yokozuna cable sits perfectly under my bars and never moves or bangs around. I can take the entire brake lever AND cable off without touching the bar tape. AND I get to admire those beautiful cables. (Form follows function in my world).
I appreciate the comment "opposite of gear acquisiton. Spending money on trips to interesting destinations is far more rewarding"! I'm going to invest in a good travel case like the post carry transfer and ride in places I've always dreamed about!
Overrated: Gravel bikes, ATB(mountain?), road bikes, toe clips, drop bars, carbon fiber, hydraulics, fly-by-wire electronic controls, unobtanium frame materials, threadless head-sets. When I was a kid we had basically one type of bike..today you call them "cruisers" or "beach" bikes...we called them just "bikes". After years of fucking around with multispeed mountain bikes, road bikes, and the abominations listed above (thankfully I never succumbed to the "gravel" phase of the marketing Bull Shit) all I want is a quality single speed bike just like I had when I was a kid, and yet if we want that we are relegated to the WalMarts of the world or to some "boutique" builder who charges art-piece prices.
Underrated: similar to custom but more specific - professional bike fitting!! Having a bike fitted is underrated!!
Absolutely. A professional bike fitting by the Bike Fit Guru changed my cycling life. I would not be riding now if I had not gotten one. Also electronic shifting. I have some physical issues that made it difficult for me to make the large throws with mechanical shifting. The essentially no force push button shifting allows me to ride. Without electronic shifting I would not be able to ride.
Dropper post may be the greatest thing to hit mtb behind suspension.
If I had to delete one on my Hardtail I’d keep the dropper
Looked like a fun show, I was bummed I couldn't make it this weekend. Flat pedals, steel and dynamos - nice to be affirmed in my choices after all this time. :D
Looking forward to hearing more from custom builders. This event looks so fun and interesting! Will be on my radar for future years!
Such a great video ! Thanks a lot, Russ !
Overrated - E-shifting and Carbon.
Underrated - Metal everything.
Very Underrated - Comfort and Serviceability.
Overated me: clipless pedals, di2, carbon everything. Underrated: comfort-oriented designs
I love clipless pedals. I don’t clip in for my commute. But for long rides clipping in is a big help.
Really good angle for a video man, love it. Looks like an awesome show.
Awesome video! Some excellent real word suggestions. Especially a clean chain line!
Awesome video Russ, so cool to hear the over/under rated stuff from all these industry folks. All I know is after watching this I feel even cooler on my "steel" Surly Long Trucker running swept back Surly Open bars, cable drivetrain, friction shifting, 26" wheels. It's like they were all taking about my bikes LOL.
I have VO Curvy bars on my 26” LHT. Bar ends to thumies, and a Brooks Flyer Special. Heavy and comfy.
The amount people are spending on bikes could get a made to measure frame and hand built wheels. Support the trades
I went that route. The cost to buy some expensive bikes is the same as buying a custom bike. Why spend 7-9k on a bike you can't even pick geometry and characteristics
Awesome video, with great questions and answers.
Overrated: front racks/panniers, since rear racks are more stable and aero.
Underrated: Bike fit stuff; shorter crankarm, mainly if you're 5'7" and below.
A $450 bike fit these days is insane. Bike fitting has become a billion-dollar industry.
Lol you payed 450??? 🤣 my shop does it for free. You played yourself.
@@CityNDN Who said I paid $450? Reading comprehension problem?
Overacted - Internal cables,. disk brakes
Underated - square taper crankset, a quality bell.
Disk brakes are so good
@@brian_jake I agree but it's the dismissal of rim brakes by the industry that is unfair
@ebikescrapper3925 true, rim brakes are still relevant especially for commuter and road bikes
@@brian_jakehonestly, I think hydraulic disc brakes are an order of magnitude safer when battling 2+ ton death machines out on the road. Dead stop within ~15 feet, without cramping my hands. Canti commuting bike = death grip and still takes an eternity to stop.
I agree that rim brakes are still relevant, _but _*_if_* I get disks on my next bike it'll definitely be either mechanical (e.g. Growtac) or hydro-mechanical (e.g JuinTech)
Awesome video! I agree with most things but since I got a dropper post for my MTB (hardtail) the trails have been much more fun - allowing me to simply keep going if there’s a steep hill up/down. And you don’t need full suspension on the trails, you’ll learn a lot about techniques by riding a hardtail.
I’m now looking into getting a foldable electric bike with either 16” or 20” wheels, for commuting and take on the train. I’m amazed how far development has come. One of these would make me not sweat while going to work and also store it in the office safely during to them becoming so small.
Underrated: dropper posts, hardtails and foldable small wheelers going electric.
Overrated: I’d say trying to cut down on weight into infinity. A few kilograms won’t make a hug difference if you’re just riding (unless you’re lifting it often but then you’ll get stronger). Besides, carbon fiber frames are pricy!
That was really good to see and hear. Thanks Russ.
Is the rep from Forager Cycles Dan Stranahan? Either way, I agree with him on both points. I will run tubes until they don't make them any more. And I'm kinda through with clipless pedals as well. I have weirdly narrow high-arched feet and bike specific shoes just don't fit them. Plus I like being able to walk around like a normal person when I get off the bike. Switched to flats and haven't looked back.
That rep looks small and light. I don't get flats(knock on wood) either-I'm 108lbs now. I wonder if lighter riders just don't experience the same degree of problems with tires/inner tubes. Now I'm riding 22lbs on my front Rene Herse Hill Switchback TC 48mm extra light slick tire, and extra light butyl inner-tube. 24 lbs on the rear.
@@stevenr5149I’d agree that being smaller helps in that department. I’m 150lb and my larger friends do seem to pinch flat more
Indeed - I (Dan) started Forager so you could say I’m a “rep” :)
@@stevenr5149Switch to high-end 23mm sew-ups, and you'll learn to _enjoy_ flats as most do. 😏 (Currently 140lbs but worried now that I've exhausted my stash of fresh tires.)
The gentleman from Bender Bikes hit the giant bell with his comment that "Silver Parts" are underrated. I'm pissed off that black carbon parts have dominated in the last decade. Many bikes would have far more bling factor if we had other choices. I have a titanium frame with titanium bars, stem, and seatpost, and the comments and looks it attracts makes me know I'm right about this.
Underrated: 26" wheels and, relatedly, bikes that comfortably fit anyone under 157cm (5'2").
Loved this video. I haven’t biked since my last trip in Wisconsin about a month ago but this video made me think about riding my bike again :)
highlights for me: *over* - electronic shifting, racing geometry, wide handlebars & weight // *under* - steel, single speed, flat pedals & RUSS
The best bike-related content I've seen in a while! So good.
Very interesting video! Thanks!
What a great video! Thanks for making such interesting content.
Very nice video 😊
Overrated: 1x.
Underrated: front derailleur
Nah they both good for different things
Agree
Try running a like a 55T+ on a front derailleur and you'll understand the pain of continuous miss shifts and why everyone that uses oversized gearing prefers 1x. This applied to all brands not just SRAM. The other thing is not all bikes can fit more than a 55T double ring so I am maxed out on my bike as well unless I go 1x.
The other thing is if I want to run something like a 58T or 56T chainring, it is really hard to find in a 2x. Shimano does not release it to the public and most other companies like Rotor only make limited amounts so you need to stock up if it is available. It is really easy to find it in a 1x all the way up to a 64T.
Like you can achieve an reasonable cadence with an 55t -11t with 700c wheels.
Only when you switch your 24inch kid wheels in there you might have an shot.
@@Charles-wz9sd
Who tf runs a 55. You are right in seeing a problem in the front derailer, but for very extraordinary and unusual reasons.
Over - This might be based on location, but waxing chains is way overrated. At least it is in the Northeast or anywhere it rains like Europe or the PNW. I sure don't need 3 crock pots to make my chain quiet and smooth, so simplicity is therefore underrated in this case.
Agreed. I checked it out and went "nope...I'd have to do it weekly". I would consider it for my race bike, since that lives on the trainer and only goes outside in nice weather.
That said...I have considered an ultrasonic cleaner. Then apply my usual wet lube.
Yes, I can think of a well known channel who keep pushing waxing chains constantly.......
@@brannmacfinnchad9056 Have several chains, and do them all at once.
The last commentator was exactly right! 👍
Excellent video! Really interesting, I agree with so much of what was said
That’s a nice episode 🤌🏼
Totally underrated- non sportive side of cycling… even bikepacking is screwed by so many companies with that sportive ultra endurance point of view…
I'd agree with that. In fact slow biking/ touring is overlooked/ under rated or viewed as unfashionable.
+100 to PLP being the most underrated.
I have a very nice carbon gravel bike with electronic shifting but I would like something just to commute or ride around town. A steel bike with silver parts, baskets and cable shifting would be great and loads of fun. So great video just to see I am not the only one who thinks this way.
Owning only one bike is overrated. I also have a carbon Di2 gravel bike for big days or bikepacking, but I never lock it up on the street. That's what my mechanical steel frame is for
A 2nd hand "beater" bike is often the way to go for commuting and locking up in town. Doesn't mean it can't be lovely to ride and well-maintained, it'll just look a lot less appealing to the casual observer.
@@thepandaman I describe beaters as looking like hell and riding like heaven.
@@Korina42 I like it!
Get a brompton, the smallest folded bike, rides very well for a folder, well engineered, great for short distance commuting, goes in your boot and can easilly be carried into shops. I have over 10 bikes, the Brompton is the bike I would miss most.
Dude you’re crushing it, I love this channel. Great content.
This was a fun show, I'm already looking forward to next year. I'd say single speeds and internally geared hubs are underrated. Two of my favorite bikes to ride are my single speed and my 3-speed.
I so agree with the singlespeed being underrated! My friends look at me like a madman for going everywhere, even dirt, on my singlespeed. But it is so much fun and it really pushes you to commit to your ride, to enjoy the view and feel the hills like anything else. And its so simple to maintain! You just need to check that the chain is fine, most of the time. Great vid as always! Greetings form Chile!
Sven says: Still Gravelling on a fixed gear bike at 63 yrs young is: Madness, yes.... but SUPER FUN!!
As someone who lives in hilly Seattle, I could never 😂
absolutely agree, i pass so many roadies looking at their latest groupset wondering why it’s not working. too many gears man!
@@kevinkace I've heard single-speeds are quite common in Seattle, from a friend who used to live there. I never understood why until I tried climbing hills on a fixed gear. I wouldn't want to do that every day, but it's a lot less bad than I expected.
@@cumpootuhruser9355 yeah that's true, there are a lot of fixed gear around here. I actually must admit I've never tried one.
It is refreshing to hear these bike-fabricating artisans express their appreciation for tried and true tech and materials. And okay, Russ, we need that vid, fifteen minutes of love for you from them. And my comment would be, O sure, absolutely, Russ is underrated as a presenter and interviewer and off-beat luminary, tho' I'm still struggling to embrace his enthusiasm for party pace. 😀
I only have one pace and it’s party pace. Happy to take my time.
@@ninacnmmsncom I like party pace sometimes, no question, it was the story of our lives as kids on Sting-Rays between doing jumps and daring each other and riding to the dirt for serious duels. And I'm mellow about calling my age-mandated speed un-party pace. 😀
Tubeless tires, carbon fiber, electric shifting, sunglasses that cost more than 90 dollars.
I appreciate all the thoughtful and interesting comments! :)