0:00 Testing leakage on capacitors 4:32 Low leakage capacitor types 13:19 Frequency Analysis of amplifier before replacing any capacitors. Note: I believe the test was not properly performed, as it looks as if the treble control was not set to flat position. :( 14:35 Replacing the capacitors on the tone control board (Solder & chat) 33:05 Frequency analysis after replacing capacitors on tone control board. All controls set the same as before (including the treble control) 34:42 Replacing capacitors in power supply & Amplifier section 48:44 Checking & Adjusting the bias on the amplifier 50:18 Testing channel balance, power output & THD of amplifier 54:04 Explaining the mistake that was made when I did the frequency analysis 56:09 Frequency analysis after full recap of amp, power supply and tone control. Test was done with treble set to -5 and again with treble flat. 1:02:28 Final audio test with music 1:04:58 Closing comments
At about 22:40 you were talking about issues with high quality capacitors. I made the mistake of purchasing high grade capacitors from a favorite auction site and lo and behold, The capacitors I received looked perfect at first glance but turned out to be counterfeit caps (craps). I learned fast from that experience! Only buy from well known reputable sources. Thanks for the video and talk!
Hi Tony As someone newly getting into refurbishing old pioneer gear, I need to say thank you. Before was retired didn't have the time nor knowledge on restoration. Also when asking shops to doing full recap, they'd look at me as if -HellBoy just walked in the door, mind you this is NYC. Thanks to your channel have picked up many many pointers not to mention the fun to following as you... go on and on. Also pre-retirement was lucky enough to have found you to restore my old couple, married 🙃 and continue to enjoying them tremendously. Question is it worthy to doing recap, absolutely -will never know when something will pop the cork and lugging gear or thru the mail for second or third repairs as your precious equipment gets banged around by some logistic dork. Sound wise is back to original as I've own these guys well over 50 years. New units simply cannot match the quality of the seventies, balance of simplicity and quality. On occasions when itching to do a wake up on a Sunday morning, the volume knob goes up to 70% as Pink Floyd rocks the neighborhood -Dark Side of the Moon.
Really enjoy these chat and solder video, also agree it takes a stronger person to admit mistakes, I've never trusted a person's opinion if they can't admit to mistakes. This is a great series and thank you for sharing your wisdom.
'Quality' Everything has quality. It comes down to the qualifier. For example: Super cheap components from EBAY are usually considered SUSPECT quality. Tony's explanation of capacitor properties and uses is HIGH quality. His view on sharing knowledge is PRICELESS quality. Tony, this particular video and all its explanations that go far and above the device on hand is a valuable resource. I have had someone on a forum I'm in ask about replacing old caps in a set of old speakers (50 years + -, so old that the designator was "M"), and it reminded me of all the differing types of "advice" out there. The thing about this question is that you could tell the guy is a newbie and giving him just enough of the basics, including a website and an old crossover chart, so he could see what the OEM was doing when they put it together (3 caps in parallel). I'm essence, I'm going to recommend this video for those who would like a better understanding of Capacitors, their specifications, and possible uses. I believe spreading this knowledge is within the spirit that you've recorded. Thanks again for your time, online camaraderie, and genuineness.
Thanks Tony, as someone who is new to this hobby I am looking to do a restoration of one of my vintage receivers. I have been confused by all the different types of capacitors, kt, fg, ka, pw etc.. Thanks for your very informative explanation of the different types of Nichicon caps. It's helping me a lot.
Very good review of the the electrolytic capacitor replacement question and an excellent demo of the various capacitor variables. Thank you. Since you asked, my default position is to replace all the electrolytics if the unit is older than about 30 years. If a 30-year-old unit also has paper caps, I’ll usually replace those with modern film caps. I leave capacitors in the tuner section alone, as these are usually high-quality and are neither paper or electrolytic. Furthermore, caps in the tuner section may have been hand-picked at the factory for optimum performance. The new caps *may* result in a slight change in the character of the audio-especially at high frequencies-but the unit will be reliable for at least another 30 years.
I went through a similar exercise many years ago when I replaced ALL the PSU caps and many of the signal caps in a SONY PreAmp. Tony is "spot on" about testing with sine waves (single freq. signal). You will probably NOT be able to detect ANY before/after differences. However (IMHO) there IS a significant difference when playing music (with high dynamic range) through a newly re-capped unit. The most noticeable thing is the "punch" of the bass notes. But this is like being able to hear the difference between various interconnect cables. Some people will just say it's all psychological based on confirmation bias. However, I believe you CAN test for low freq. linearity and distortion using low frequency "tone burst" tests. But you need an arb-generator for that.
If I may, according to the IPC J-STD-001F (Joint Industry Standard) if you cut leads after soldering you should always "reflow" the jont because of internal (to the solder joint ) shock could occur . BTW I realy enjoy your channel ,keep up the good work. (also tempered leads should never be cut ) 👍
The MTBF of Capacitors is highly temperature dependant. So those capacitors that are at the end of their MTBF life are playing the odds like a Lotto Ticket as to when they will fail... Tony is correct in every respect in his recommendation as to replacing those old capacitors. The ESR of new replacement Power Supply Caps is important, more so with SMPS units...
Thanks for excellent movie! I am very happy you tackled the problem of the recuping since this become trendy topic and a lot of baseless opinion circulates around. You provided us with very comprehensive explanation and a bit less explicit example ;-) I leant so much and unfortunate mistake in the beginning doesn't matter.
Thank you so much for answering my question in such an elaborate way that you spent 15 minutes in a follow-up video on it. Now, I also use the Nichicon UFW/UFG in power related circuits. I haven't had any problems with the amps I recapped, they did work just fine. But my question is: Is there any negative effect on using audio-grade caps in the power section, or is it just that I'm throwing money away senselessly on these slightly more expensive caps without any benefits, or doing more harm than good. So if I understand it correctly, any capacitor directly connected to ground is a decoupling capacitor and thus a power-rail cap? I read about audio caps might degrade faster in a non audio circuit. Again thank you for your informative videos. Kind regards from The Netherlands, your tier 2 Patreon subscriber.
Thanks again Tony, Great info on the cap types! Looking forward to the CR-820 tuner video. It uses a Sanyo LA3550 FM MPX decoder chip with a "pilot erase" signal to cancel out the 19KHz pilot tone from the FM detector. I can't find a real datasheet on the LA3550, so I have to infer what's going on. Also has the unique OTS (Optimized tuning system) with a touch sensor on the tuning dial to disable the locking while your tuning.
Besides the clean sound Yamaha is known for, the simple look to their faces have always had my heart. I'm torn between the 20 and 40 series, for different reasons. The 20 series appear to be built better with no amp packs, but the 40 series look better with their illumination being a much welcomed improvement over the 20 series.
The 20 series illumination can be vastly improved by removing the colour filters present. On the dial it's easy, but on the meters it takes quite a lot of patience and 99.9% alcohol to free them from glue.
Great video. I often wonder the annual cost of failed electronic systems due to old electrolytic capacitors. Electrolytics are used everywhere from power electronics to medical devices, audio/video, flatscreen TVs, communication, computers/server, aviation even satellites...the cost of downed equipment because of failed electrolytic caps must run into $ billions every year. It is amazing electrolytics haven't been outlawed for critical electronic systems, and even outright banned in modern electronic systems !
TIP!!! I ALWAYS place a rag over the Dial String. That protects it from a hot soldering iron.. I made this mistake about 5 years ago, and learned an important lesson.. Protect the dial string, as some are very complicated to restring, especially if you have to pull off the entire front panel... Robert
@@xraytonyb That works, I use a Micro Fiber Yellow Towel I get at Costco. I also do a sampling of my capacitors when I get them in, just to be sure the polarity is correct as marked, and they are within tolerance as specified.. About a year ago I got an assortment of electrolytic from a reputable seller on eBay. 50% of the capacitors were out of spec, by a lot, some had bad ESR readings, Definitely a bad batch. Seller refunded my $$ and closed down his eBay AD after I reported this to him.. He did some checking and verified he got bad lot from his China distributor... I also found some where the "Negative" marked terminal was not correct... Worth checking before all the time is spent repairing the radio or FM tuner... Just finishing up on restoring my Marantz 10B tuner... Lots of defective capacitors and a few bad noisy resistors as well... Another 6-8 hours of work and should be done... Robert
Really enjoying your videos. I do restoration of vintage hifi stuff as well. Usually my cap choice is Nichicon FG and in signal path Nichicon ES. I'm wondering how come you didn't mentioned ES series.
ES series are bipolar capacitors. In most capacitor coupled designs, there is DC offset in the audio path, meaning that the polarity doesn't reverse, i.e. one terminal is always more positive than the other, even with the audio signal present. Bipolar caps need to have the polarity reversed in order to stay properly formed. If you look up the spec, it says "The specifications listed at right shall be met when the capacitors are restored to 20°C after the rated voltage is applied for 1000 hours at 85°C with the polarity inverted every 250 hours." In other words, they have to have the polarity reversed every so often in order to stay in spec. Some amps have areas where the polarity does reverse. In those cases, I will use ES series. I'm pretty sure the FG series is the same capacitor, only polarized. Hope this helps.
On the subject of going to voltage that’s too high and the circuit having too hard of a time keeping the cap formed, what do you do in situations of the smaller values? I’ve run into 1uF, 2.2, 3.3, 4.7 that are rated at 10-16v. I don’t see them being made that small. All of these values I have are either 50v or 100v. By the way, not sure if you’re planning on covering it, but this model of Yamaha has transistors that should be swapped out, they’re known for getting noisy and failure. So modern equivalents are recommended.
This was great with all the tips and especially the frequency testing.. could you possibly show/include how to set up the digital scope settings for doing the test in a future vid ?? ? Seems like this could work on different model scopes too, I have the Siglent 1104x-e . Your knowledge always impresses me.
you should talk about replacing those little two legged trimmers on the board at 37:00..I got 4 that are rly out of whack and they don't seem to make them anymore..all it says is 50k on them
If the component lead wire is long or thick then I cut it off first before soldering because it will heat up quicker as less mass. This means it will damage the component less and solder will flow quicker and better. When bending leads with pliers, I put the long nose plier jaws at the base of the lead, grip the wire and bend the wire over the edge of the pliers jaw. This means that there is no strain on the component at all. Also the width of the pliers jaw is always the same, so I know exactly how long each bend will be and each lead of the component will be bent to exactly the same width (the width of the jaw). You can use a small hacksaw to mark the side of your long-nose plier jaws to give you reference marks along the side of the jaw (e.g. 1/10" marks), so you can use the same position each time. This is especially good for resistors - each end will be bent at exactly the right place and each side will be the same length.
I ordered the cap tester kit and all the parts however, the high voltage regulator is really hard to get. I sent you an email asking about a replacement. As always great video!
I checked on Digikey and it says that they are on order. This is different from being discontinued. Most manufacturers only produce these items once every year or two. When inventory runs low, you have to wait for the next production run. I believe this to be the case with these. If you go onto Digikey or Mouser website, you can be put on the email list and they will inform you when the next shipment arrives. Until then, you might have to go to the scalpers and pay more (a last resort, in my opinion). Hope that helps.
Found a seller on ebay that has 2 for $16 about 8 times the price it should be. But I wanted to get the project done and not sit on the desk for 6 months.
I never really had a problem of leads of THT components corroding when cutting them off after soldering. However, that's just the habit I got in to. I find especially if the board is turned upside down to solder, the longer lead slightly bent stops the component falling out.
I have the CR-800, what caps should I replace to return it to former glory (or at least prevent it from failing as soon)? The Mouser website is a bit confusing and those Ebay kits seem expensive.
@@ATribeCalledCars Just purchased a CR-800 that needs some servicing. Any change you could point me towards this comprehensive list? I'm new to this and it's a bit overwhelming to say the least lol
Thanks Tony, no worries about the possible setting issues. Just put the old ones back in and redo the test😂 or I’m sure there will be another Amplifier to work on next time,
I find the difference in sound when changing capacitors out is greater in cap-coupled units vs. direct-coupled. Still, I like to rebuild the power supply, protection , and amp circuitry on direct-coupled units for longevity and preventing a breakdown.
Great video. I’m having an issue with mine where the volume fluctuates. Any idea what would cause that? No static and berthing works great other than the volume issue. Thanks!
Hi Tony I have a project for you. I think you should revisit the Yamaha B6 amplifier from a couple of years ago. I believe it was your only unsuccessful attempt.
It’s a real shame that you missed the opportunity to show some objective difference in the frequency response pre and post-capacitor replacement, Tony. Have you done that since this video? If not, could you try again? Edit: Ah, nevermind. All we have to do is compare both erroneous graphs. They are essential identical 😊
@@harbinger200 rumor is that demand is low for through hole components. pretty much all electronics are surface mount now. sucks as I just got into this hobby of restoring old recievers and finding out that they are phasing out caps that I want to use. hopefully they come out with something new thats just as good or better.
Why would anyone penny pinch the cost of capacitors... doesnt make sense to me. all the labor i would not try and save a few bucks and chance doing it over. nice explanations and thank you !
The big deal made now about capacitors is all a product of UA-cam and online forums. People get way too deep into the weeds over them, and talk about them with these nebulous characteristics that likely cannot be heard. At its most basic level, it’s a storage tank for voltage. When people start talking about different sound characteristics, that’s when it turns into jumping the shark.
Capacitors are filters and that makes them very important in a device that produces sound. Of course many devices produced in the 70s and earlier are failing due to transistors, diodes, resistors and zeners.
@@ArthurJS123 You said that they are a storage tank for voltage. That's too simplistic and lacks fundamental knowledge. Audio is recapped because it has been proven to improve sound.
The electronics community made a big deal of capacitors long before UA-cam or the internet existed. At DC, capacitors are similar to a "storage tank" for electrical charge, as you indicated. When AC is introduced, the capacitor becomes a source of capacitive reactance, where current leads voltage. Many factors affect this and terms like ESR, dissipation factor, loss tangent, parallel leakage, etc. are used to express these factors. Using a capacitor designed for linear power supplies in a switching supply will cause that cap to fail in short order. Likewise, these factors will also affect frequency roll-off. This is why two capacitors of the same capacitance can sometimes react differently in the same circuit. I believe I demonstrated this in the previous video when we measured some of these characteristics in different capacitors of the same value. That's why when we jump that shark, we must be aware of these things, lest we get bit ;)
Tony, Im a subscriber and like your methods and approach to Audio Electronics however Im sick of your whining and crying about comments from others. Either ignore them or grow some skin. This is a public forum, You have to take the good with the bad. Quit crying about it. Have a great day>
Disagree. I enjoy Tony’s defending his decisions to that part of the audience that feel the need to bitch about something they are getting for free. I would be less polite and more blunt than Tony, being the gentleman he is.
Although the physical size is smaller, the value of capacitance and voltage are identical to the original. Modern capacitors are quite often physically smaller than the older ones due to improved manufacturing processes. As for going to a higher/different value, I try to keep things the same. The folks that designed these things really knew what they were doing and any time I ran the numbers, I found the values to be correct.
@@xraytonyb I'm not sure if you understanding me! A bigger capacitor holds a bigger charge! is what I'm saying like that's why you have big filter caps, shouldn't the other capacitors in the power supply be as large as physically possible as well?? with low ESR. So you have a reserve of power on tap not relying Just from the transformer or mains. Why don't we see more in doctors chokes as well in the power supply for the same reason or is that not necessary because of the transformer. Having an LC network as the power supply splitting up the transformer into two parts the first stage and then capacitance and then transformer and capacitors
I did a couple of videos on this subject. Increasing the capacitance on a filter capacitor in a linear power supply provides diminishing returns. With most gear from this era (excluding the low-cost items), the capacitor that they chose was optimal for the circuit, as was the design of the power supply. At some point, the power transformer begins to sag and it is the limiting factor. Increasing the capacitor won't solve this. The capacitors were chosen based on these factors. On some of the really old transistor gear, I was able to get a little bit of improvement by increasing the capacitance, such as in the old Scott amplifiers, but it wasn't a huge benefit and this was the exception rather than the rule. It all comes down to the math.
After the capacitor plague, I would never recommend chinese capacitors. For me, I lost 3 motherboards (my beloved ABIT KT7-RAID) and 2 tvs (ge and samsung). Much more damage to the rest of my family.
That was 20 years ago, and involved a Taiwanese firm. Tony's video shows the cheap Chinese caps performed as well as the brand Japanese and EU caps. I've been using no name Chinese caps, as well as high end caps, and the Chinese caps work fine. Assuming they understand the chemistry now, all these years later, the caps will age well, there is no reason to not use them in audio gear. All the hang wringing over which Nichicon version to use is too much drama, IMO. I don't like using Chinese *anything* because I don't want to feed their communist military machine, which is being groomed to challenge America and the West for world supremacy. Buying their caps, though, is not going to tip the balance of power, so I break my rule when it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Buying Siemens or GE medical imaging systems made in the CCP, however, should be illegal.
A couple of thoughts here. I agree. I usually buy from digikey because I trust them. But how do we know that digikey or Mauser buy their capacitors from good sources? We really don't do we? They're just suppliers that buy capacitors from other companies . It's a crap shoot. Maybe they buy them from China at a discount as well? As long as they are within the range of the correct capacitance I just use them. How long they're going to last is anybody's guess.
If you check with Digikey & similar companies, you will find that they are ANSI & ISO9001 certified in addition to other certifications. There are quite a few quality standards that they must conform to in order to be able to hold these certifications. Part of this is to be able to trace the sources and standards of the products they sell. They are also a participant of the CAAP program which is in place to prevent the sales of counterfeit parts. This is what permits them to sell to other ISO certified manufacturers. This is why it may cost more to purchase from them than from an unknown source selling on eBay. Companies such as Panasonic, Elna, Nichicon, Kemet, etc must also conform to these standards. That is the beauty of ISO and ANSI certifications.
@@xraytonyb Thanks Tony. I was not aware of their certifications. I'm purely coming at this as a home hobbyist guy. I appreciate your videos and all your expertise. I've learned a ton from you. And like I said, I buy from digikey because I know it originally started out as a ham radio company and I trust them.
@@xraytonyb The weak link in this scheme is when a bulk buyer orders the certified parts, but returns counterfeits for credit, as "not needed". The Mouser or DigiKey Returns Dept may just return them to stock, and not be able to detect that they were switched out.
0:00 Testing leakage on capacitors
4:32 Low leakage capacitor types
13:19 Frequency Analysis of amplifier before replacing any capacitors. Note: I believe the test was not properly performed, as it looks as if the treble control was not set to flat position. :(
14:35 Replacing the capacitors on the tone control board (Solder & chat)
33:05 Frequency analysis after replacing capacitors on tone control board. All controls set the same as before (including the treble control)
34:42 Replacing capacitors in power supply & Amplifier section
48:44 Checking & Adjusting the bias on the amplifier
50:18 Testing channel balance, power output & THD of amplifier
54:04 Explaining the mistake that was made when I did the frequency analysis
56:09 Frequency analysis after full recap of amp, power supply and tone control. Test was done with treble set to -5 and again with treble flat.
1:02:28 Final audio test with music
1:04:58 Closing comments
I lift my Cap to your capacity to fit capable capacitors 🧢
where can i get me one of them meters lol
At about 22:40 you were talking about issues with high quality capacitors. I made the mistake of purchasing high grade capacitors from a favorite auction site and lo and behold, The capacitors I received looked perfect at first glance but turned out to be counterfeit caps (craps). I learned fast from that experience! Only buy from well known reputable sources. Thanks for the video and talk!
Hi Tony As someone newly getting into refurbishing old pioneer gear, I need to say thank you. Before was retired didn't have the time nor knowledge on restoration. Also when asking shops to doing full recap, they'd look at me as if -HellBoy just walked in the door, mind you this is NYC. Thanks to your channel have picked up many many pointers not to mention the fun to following as you... go on and on. Also pre-retirement was lucky enough to have found you to restore my old couple, married 🙃 and continue to enjoying them tremendously. Question is it worthy to doing recap, absolutely -will never know when something will pop the cork and lugging gear or thru the mail for second or third repairs as your precious equipment gets banged around by some logistic dork. Sound wise is back to original as I've own these guys well over 50 years. New units simply cannot match the quality of the seventies, balance of simplicity and quality. On occasions when itching to do a wake up on a Sunday morning, the volume knob goes up to 70% as Pink Floyd rocks the neighborhood -Dark Side of the Moon.
Really enjoy these chat and solder video, also agree it takes a stronger person to admit mistakes, I've never trusted a person's opinion if they can't admit to mistakes.
This is a great series and thank you for sharing your wisdom.
'Quality'
Everything has quality. It comes down to the qualifier.
For example:
Super cheap components from EBAY are usually considered SUSPECT quality.
Tony's explanation of capacitor properties and uses is HIGH quality.
His view on sharing knowledge is PRICELESS quality.
Tony, this particular video and all its explanations that go far and above the device on hand is a valuable resource. I have had someone on a forum I'm in ask about replacing old caps in a set of old speakers (50 years + -, so old that the designator was "M"), and it reminded me of all the differing types of "advice" out there. The thing about this question is that you could tell the guy is a newbie and giving him just enough of the basics, including a website and an old crossover chart, so he could see what the OEM was doing when they put it together (3 caps in parallel).
I'm essence, I'm going to recommend this video for those who would like a better understanding of Capacitors, their specifications, and possible uses. I believe spreading this knowledge is within the spirit that you've recorded.
Thanks again for your time, online camaraderie, and genuineness.
thanks, I enjoy watching the soldering parts of you videos. I also agree about cutting the leads before soldering, it makes sense.
Lots of juicy Capacitor info. Thank you Sir!
Thanks Tony, as someone who is new to this hobby I am looking to do a restoration of one of my vintage receivers. I have been confused by all the different types of capacitors, kt, fg, ka, pw etc.. Thanks for your very informative explanation of the different types of Nichicon caps. It's helping me a lot.
Thanks for identifying the old low leakage capacitors and showing some replacement options.
Interesting video as usual Tony. Have you ever considered making the Mr Carlson capacitor leakage tester?
Very good review of the the electrolytic capacitor replacement question and an excellent demo of the various capacitor variables. Thank you.
Since you asked, my default position is to replace all the electrolytics if the unit is older than about 30 years. If a 30-year-old unit also has paper caps, I’ll usually replace those with modern film caps. I leave capacitors in the tuner section alone, as these are usually high-quality and are neither paper or electrolytic. Furthermore, caps in the tuner section may have been hand-picked at the factory for optimum performance. The new caps *may* result in a slight change in the character of the audio-especially at high frequencies-but the unit will be reliable for at least another 30 years.
Really neat job Tony. Thanks for the great work. Mike.
I went through a similar exercise many years ago when I replaced ALL the PSU caps and many of the signal caps in a SONY PreAmp. Tony is "spot on" about testing with sine waves (single freq. signal). You will probably NOT be able to detect ANY before/after differences. However (IMHO) there IS a significant difference when playing music (with high dynamic range) through a newly re-capped unit. The most noticeable thing is the "punch" of the bass notes. But this is like being able to hear the difference between various interconnect cables. Some people will just say it's all psychological based on confirmation bias. However, I believe you CAN test for low freq. linearity and distortion using low frequency "tone burst" tests. But you need an arb-generator for that.
If I may, according to the IPC J-STD-001F (Joint Industry Standard) if you cut leads after soldering you should always "reflow" the jont because of internal (to the solder joint ) shock could occur . BTW I realy enjoy your channel ,keep up the good work. (also tempered leads should never be cut ) 👍
Funnily enough, the very first time I heard about this method was on one of his previous videos where Tony explained this very method in detail! 🤣
The MTBF of Capacitors is highly temperature dependant. So those capacitors that are at the end of their MTBF life are playing the odds like a Lotto Ticket as to when they will fail...
Tony is correct in every respect in his recommendation as to replacing those old capacitors. The ESR of new replacement Power Supply Caps is important, more so with SMPS units...
Thanks for excellent movie! I am very happy you tackled the problem of the recuping since this become trendy topic and a lot of baseless opinion circulates around. You provided us with very comprehensive explanation and a bit less explicit example ;-) I leant so much and unfortunate mistake in the beginning doesn't matter.
Thank you so much for answering my question in such an elaborate way that you spent 15 minutes in a follow-up video on it. Now, I also use the Nichicon UFW/UFG in power related circuits. I haven't had any problems with the amps I recapped, they did work just fine. But my question is: Is there any negative effect on using audio-grade caps in the power section, or is it just that I'm throwing money away senselessly on these slightly more expensive caps without any benefits, or doing more harm than good. So if I understand it correctly, any capacitor directly connected to ground is a decoupling capacitor and thus a power-rail cap?
I read about audio caps might degrade faster in a non audio circuit. Again thank you for your informative videos. Kind regards from The Netherlands, your tier 2 Patreon subscriber.
Thanks again Tony, Great info on the cap types! Looking forward to the CR-820 tuner video. It uses a Sanyo LA3550 FM MPX decoder chip with a "pilot erase" signal to cancel out the 19KHz pilot tone from the FM detector. I can't find a real datasheet on the LA3550, so I have to infer what's going on. Also has the unique OTS (Optimized tuning system) with a touch sensor on the tuning dial to disable the locking while your tuning.
What would be telling is a white noise spectrum analyzer test before and after recapping the unit.
Besides the clean sound Yamaha is known for, the simple look to their faces have always had my heart. I'm torn between the 20 and 40 series, for different reasons. The 20 series appear to be built better with no amp packs, but the 40 series look better with their illumination being a much welcomed improvement over the 20 series.
The 20 sounds much better then the 40
The 20 series illumination can be vastly improved by removing the colour filters present. On the dial it's easy, but on the meters it takes quite a lot of patience and 99.9% alcohol to free them from glue.
Great video. I often wonder the annual cost of failed electronic systems due to old electrolytic capacitors. Electrolytics are used everywhere from power electronics to medical devices, audio/video, flatscreen TVs, communication, computers/server, aviation even satellites...the cost of downed equipment because of failed electrolytic caps must run into $ billions every year. It is amazing electrolytics haven't been outlawed for critical electronic systems, and even outright banned in modern electronic systems !
TIP!!! I ALWAYS place a rag over the Dial String. That protects it from a hot soldering iron.. I made this mistake about 5 years ago, and learned an important lesson.. Protect the dial string, as some are very complicated to restring, especially if you have to pull off the entire front panel...
Robert
I use aluminum foil, but I like your idea as well!
@@xraytonyb That works, I use a Micro Fiber Yellow Towel I get at Costco. I also do a sampling of my capacitors when I get them in, just to be sure the polarity is correct as marked, and they are within tolerance as specified..
About a year ago I got an assortment of electrolytic from a reputable seller on eBay. 50% of the capacitors were out of spec, by a lot, some had bad ESR readings, Definitely a bad batch.
Seller refunded my $$ and closed down his eBay AD after I reported this to him.. He did some checking and verified he got bad lot from his China distributor... I also found some where the "Negative" marked terminal was not correct...
Worth checking before all the time is spent repairing the radio or FM tuner...
Just finishing up on restoring my Marantz 10B tuner... Lots of defective capacitors and a few bad noisy resistors as well... Another 6-8 hours of work and should be done...
Robert
Really enjoying these videos' and learning a lot from your experience!Thank you!
Really enjoying your videos. I do restoration of vintage hifi stuff as well. Usually my cap choice is Nichicon FG and in signal path Nichicon ES. I'm wondering how come you didn't mentioned ES series.
ES series are bipolar capacitors. In most capacitor coupled designs, there is DC offset in the audio path, meaning that the polarity doesn't reverse, i.e. one terminal is always more positive than the other, even with the audio signal present. Bipolar caps need to have the polarity reversed in order to stay properly formed. If you look up the spec, it says "The specifications listed at right shall be met when the capacitors are restored to 20°C after the rated voltage is applied for 1000 hours at 85°C with the polarity inverted every 250 hours." In other words, they have to have the polarity reversed every so often in order to stay in spec. Some amps have areas where the polarity does reverse. In those cases, I will use ES series. I'm pretty sure the FG series is the same capacitor, only polarized. Hope this helps.
On the subject of going to voltage that’s too high and the circuit having too hard of a time keeping the cap formed, what do you do in situations of the smaller values? I’ve run into 1uF, 2.2, 3.3, 4.7 that are rated at 10-16v. I don’t see them being made that small. All of these values I have are either 50v or 100v. By the way, not sure if you’re planning on covering it, but this model of Yamaha has transistors that should be swapped out, they’re known for getting noisy and failure. So modern equivalents are recommended.
This was great with all the tips and especially the frequency testing.. could you possibly show/include how to set up the digital scope settings for doing the test in a future vid ?? ? Seems like this could work on different model scopes too, I have the Siglent 1104x-e . Your knowledge always impresses me.
Weird. Just finished a Yamaha CR 820. Mine is missing the AM antenna. On the prowl for one.
you should talk about replacing those little two legged trimmers on the board at 37:00..I got 4 that are rly out of whack and they don't seem to make them anymore..all it says is 50k on them
If the component lead wire is long or thick then I cut it off first before soldering because it will heat up quicker as less mass. This means it will damage the component less and solder will flow quicker and better. When bending leads with pliers, I put the long nose plier jaws at the base of the lead, grip the wire and bend the wire over the edge of the pliers jaw. This means that there is no strain on the component at all. Also the width of the pliers jaw is always the same, so I know exactly how long each bend will be and each lead of the component will be bent to exactly the same width (the width of the jaw). You can use a small hacksaw to mark the side of your long-nose plier jaws to give you reference marks along the side of the jaw (e.g. 1/10" marks), so you can use the same position each time. This is especially good for resistors - each end will be bent at exactly the right place and each side will be the same length.
I ordered the cap tester kit and all the parts however, the high voltage regulator is really hard to get. I sent you an email asking about a replacement. As always great video!
I got mine from a shop in England off e-bay. Much faster delivery than their estimate.
...and I looked them up and their gone. :(
I checked on Digikey and it says that they are on order. This is different from being discontinued. Most manufacturers only produce these items once every year or two. When inventory runs low, you have to wait for the next production run. I believe this to be the case with these. If you go onto Digikey or Mouser website, you can be put on the email list and they will inform you when the next shipment arrives. Until then, you might have to go to the scalpers and pay more (a last resort, in my opinion). Hope that helps.
Found a seller on ebay that has 2 for $16 about 8 times the price it should be. But I wanted to get the project done and not sit on the desk for 6 months.
What do you think of the Audio Note klei? Black gate replacemens, Duelund, Sprague Atom and F&T electrolytic power section caps for this amp?
great video. hoping to do some work on my 620
I never really had a problem of leads of THT components corroding when cutting them off after soldering. However, that's just the habit I got in to. I find especially if the board is turned upside down to solder, the longer lead slightly bent stops the component falling out.
Aside from Mouser & Digikey what are some reputable [good] sites to buy components from on line?
I have the CR-800, what caps should I replace to return it to former glory (or at least prevent it from failing as soon)? The Mouser website is a bit confusing and those Ebay kits seem expensive.
Replace all caps with low ESR long life caps
@@Konrad_K. I ended up working out what I need, found a comprehensive list!
@@ATribeCalledCars Just purchased a CR-800 that needs some servicing. Any change you could point me towards this comprehensive list? I'm new to this and it's a bit overwhelming to say the least lol
Thanks Tony, no worries about the possible setting issues. Just put the old ones back in and redo the test😂 or I’m sure there will be another Amplifier to work on next time,
I find the difference in sound when changing capacitors out is greater in cap-coupled units vs. direct-coupled. Still, I like to rebuild the power supply, protection , and amp circuitry on direct-coupled units for longevity and preventing a breakdown.
Great video. I’m having an issue with mine where the volume fluctuates. Any idea what would cause that? No static and berthing works great other than the volume issue. Thanks!
Has it been recapped?
@@Konrad_K. Not that I know of.
My cr 820 fades in and out after it worms up could anyone help me with this
Hi Tony I have a project for you. I think you should revisit the Yamaha B6 amplifier from a couple of years ago. I believe it was your only unsuccessful attempt.
Yep, DC leakage test is the ultimate test for spotting bad caps.
Any touts abouth Suncon caps?
It’s a real shame that you missed the opportunity to show some objective difference in the frequency response pre and post-capacitor replacement, Tony. Have you done that since this video? If not, could you try again?
Edit: Ah, nevermind. All we have to do is compare both erroneous graphs. They are essential identical 😊
Wow! I still
have a Yamaha CR2040 I bought new in 1980.
Unfortunatelly, most of the low capacitance Nichicon audio caps are scheduled to be discontinued.
Yes, why are both ELNA and Nichicon doing that?
@@harbinger200 rumor is that demand is low for through hole components. pretty much all electronics are surface mount now. sucks as I just got into this hobby of restoring old recievers and finding out that they are phasing out caps that I want to use. hopefully they come out with something new thats just as good or better.
Awesome!
Why would anyone penny pinch the cost of capacitors... doesnt make sense to me. all the labor i would not try and save a few bucks and chance doing it over. nice explanations and thank you !
👍🙏
I lift my Cap to your capacity to fit capable capacitors 🧢
No pun intended... ;)
@@xraytonyb pico-pun......
44:18 Polystyrene
The big deal made now about capacitors is all a product of UA-cam and online forums. People get way too deep into the weeds over them, and talk about them with these nebulous characteristics that likely cannot be heard. At its most basic level, it’s a storage tank for voltage. When people start talking about different sound characteristics, that’s when it turns into jumping the shark.
Capacitors are filters and that makes them very important in a device that produces sound. Of course many devices produced in the 70s and earlier are failing due to transistors, diodes, resistors and zeners.
@@fernarias Thanks, Captain Obvious.
@@fernarias also, as mentioned, they also matter on type when dealing with oscillator and rf circuits 👍
@@ArthurJS123 You said that they are a storage tank for voltage. That's too simplistic and lacks fundamental knowledge. Audio is recapped because it has been proven to improve sound.
The electronics community made a big deal of capacitors long before UA-cam or the internet existed. At DC, capacitors are similar to a "storage tank" for electrical charge, as you indicated. When AC is introduced, the capacitor becomes a source of capacitive reactance, where current leads voltage. Many factors affect this and terms like ESR, dissipation factor, loss tangent, parallel leakage, etc. are used to express these factors. Using a capacitor designed for linear power supplies in a switching supply will cause that cap to fail in short order. Likewise, these factors will also affect frequency roll-off. This is why two capacitors of the same capacitance can sometimes react differently in the same circuit. I believe I demonstrated this in the previous video when we measured some of these characteristics in different capacitors of the same value. That's why when we jump that shark, we must be aware of these things, lest we get bit ;)
Tony, Im a subscriber and like your methods and approach to Audio Electronics however Im sick of your whining and crying about comments from others. Either ignore them or grow some skin. This is a public forum, You have to take the good with the bad. Quit crying about it. Have a great day>
Sounds like someone else is whining and crying about comments from me. Interesting.
Disagree. I enjoy Tony’s defending his decisions to that part of the audience that feel the need to bitch about something they are getting for free. I would be less polite and more blunt than Tony, being the gentleman he is.
Surely it's better to use a bigger size capacitor in the power supply so it's got greater storage not smaller size why are you doing that??
Although the physical size is smaller, the value of capacitance and voltage are identical to the original. Modern capacitors are quite often physically smaller than the older ones due to improved manufacturing processes. As for going to a higher/different value, I try to keep things the same. The folks that designed these things really knew what they were doing and any time I ran the numbers, I found the values to be correct.
@@xraytonyb I'm not sure if you understanding me! A bigger capacitor holds a bigger charge! is what I'm saying like that's why you have big filter caps, shouldn't the other capacitors in the power supply be as large as physically possible as well?? with low ESR. So you have a reserve of power on tap not relying Just from the transformer or mains. Why don't we see more in doctors chokes as well in the power supply for the same reason or is that not necessary because of the transformer. Having an LC network as the power supply splitting up the transformer into two parts the first stage and then capacitance and then transformer and capacitors
I did a couple of videos on this subject. Increasing the capacitance on a filter capacitor in a linear power supply provides diminishing returns. With most gear from this era (excluding the low-cost items), the capacitor that they chose was optimal for the circuit, as was the design of the power supply. At some point, the power transformer begins to sag and it is the limiting factor. Increasing the capacitor won't solve this. The capacitors were chosen based on these factors. On some of the really old transistor gear, I was able to get a little bit of improvement by increasing the capacitance, such as in the old Scott amplifiers, but it wasn't a huge benefit and this was the exception rather than the rule. It all comes down to the math.
I think you should reinstall all the old caps and redo your test. (sarcasm)
The orange ELNA CAPs are *CRAP !*
After the capacitor plague, I would never recommend chinese capacitors. For me, I lost 3 motherboards (my beloved ABIT KT7-RAID) and 2 tvs (ge and samsung). Much more damage to the rest of my family.
That was 20 years ago, and involved a Taiwanese firm. Tony's video shows the cheap Chinese caps performed as well as the brand Japanese and EU caps. I've been using no name Chinese caps, as well as high end caps, and the Chinese caps work fine. Assuming they understand the chemistry now, all these years later, the caps will age well, there is no reason to not use them in audio gear. All the hang wringing over which Nichicon version to use is too much drama, IMO. I don't like using Chinese *anything* because I don't want to feed their communist military machine, which is being groomed to challenge America and the West for world supremacy. Buying their caps, though, is not going to tip the balance of power, so I break my rule when it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Buying Siemens or GE medical imaging systems made in the CCP, however, should be illegal.
@@arcsoundbut "feeding" the American military machine is okay?
Good deal Professor! Live and learn, my father would say. Thanks for the look and the time you put into these instructionals.
A couple of thoughts here. I agree. I usually buy from digikey because I trust them. But how do we know that digikey or Mauser buy their capacitors from good sources? We really don't do we? They're just suppliers that buy capacitors from other companies . It's a crap shoot. Maybe they buy them from China at a discount as well? As long as they are within the range of the correct capacitance I just use them. How long they're going to last is anybody's guess.
If you check with Digikey & similar companies, you will find that they are ANSI & ISO9001 certified in addition to other certifications. There are quite a few quality standards that they must conform to in order to be able to hold these certifications. Part of this is to be able to trace the sources and standards of the products they sell. They are also a participant of the CAAP program which is in place to prevent the sales of counterfeit parts. This is what permits them to sell to other ISO certified manufacturers. This is why it may cost more to purchase from them than from an unknown source selling on eBay. Companies such as Panasonic, Elna, Nichicon, Kemet, etc must also conform to these standards. That is the beauty of ISO and ANSI certifications.
@@xraytonyb Thanks Tony. I was not aware of their certifications. I'm purely coming at this as a home hobbyist guy. I appreciate your videos and all your expertise. I've learned a ton from you. And like I said, I buy from digikey because I know it originally started out as a ham radio company and I trust them.
@@xraytonyb The weak link in this scheme is when a bulk buyer orders the certified parts, but returns counterfeits for credit, as "not needed". The Mouser or DigiKey Returns Dept may just return them to stock, and not be able to detect that they were switched out.
Purple caps = bad caps. We see them all the time and they are never good.