How Gay is Wednesday's Nevermore Academy? | READUS 101
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/laronreadus12221
How Gay is Wednesday's Nevermore Academy? || Nevermore Academy, the school for outcasts in The Addams Family Netflix show “Wednesday,” contributes to modern-day mythos created by Addams Family Values by using Wednesday Nevermore Academy and its story to its allegory of being queer in a straight world that doesn’t want you. But in the case of Netflix Wednesday both succeeds and falls short in how Nevermore Academy handles the lgbtq allegory, while failing in how it handles actual representation.
Start streaming “Wednesday” online exclusively on Netflix!
Support My Affiliates!
TubeBuddy
www.tubebuddy.com/readus101
Atom Tickets
atom-tickets.pxf.io/c/3160852...
Subscribe to READUS 101 for all things superheroes, movies, television, and comics! ua-cam.com/users/readus101?sub...
References
Gay Yearning Drives Fandoms: Here’s Why It Deserves More Attention
www.inverse.com/entertainment...
Click to see why Debbie Jellinsky from Addams Family Values is looked at as a gay icon!
• How Debbie Made Addams...
Recording Equipment:
Canon Rebel T7i DSLR - amzn.to/313eINX
Padcaster Parrot Teleprompter Kit - amzn.to/3fKMD23
Tascam DR-60DMKII Portable Digital Recorder - amzn.to/3lLmgzc
VidPro XM-55 Condenser Shotgun Microphone Kit - amzn.to/3CsNAIu
ePhoto Photography Studio Lighting Kit - amzn.to/2NkSzm7
ESDDI Softbox Photography Lighting Kit - amzn.to/314KHgy
Support My Patreon!
/ readus_101
Make One-Time Donations At:
www.paypal.me/readus101
www.ko-fi.com/readus
Buy Official Readus 101 Merch Here!
readus101.creator-spring.com/
_____________________
00:00 Intro
04:44 Nevermore Is Gay
11:09 So Is Its Principal
18:23 But Not At Its Core
25:47 Conclusion
Music
“Tritium” by B-RadGfromOV
www.newgrounds.com/audio/list...
“Wisdom Tooth” by B-RadGfromOV
www.newgrounds.com/audio/liste...
Readus 101 Theme:
"Phantom" by B-RadGfromOV
www.newgrounds.com/audio/liste...
Facebook: / readus101
Twitter: / readus_101
Tumblr: / www
Instagram: / readus101
TikTok: @Readus101
#wednesday #wednesdayaddams #wednesdaynetflix
• How Gay is Wednesday's... - Розваги
Remember, the first 1000 peeps to sign up to Skillshare with my link gets ONE MONTH FREE! So make sure you do!
skl.sh/laronreadus12221
i know it must be difficult to have criticism "queer" media because if the drama that can ensue.... (and it sucks that i have to put it in quotation with regard to the issue with having to masq in allegory instead of outright and its subsequent controversy).
but i agree that we as a queer community have the right to have these conversations about media even if we like the material. and we SHOULD have these discussions if we are to advance media and storytelling that accurately feels represented to our lives and experiences
Black characters must always be talking about how they are black because that's what we do, and black kids would never be bullies unless you went to the school I did because they didn't care that I was black too when they where standing on my Head, also black people would never profit from pilgrims or colonizers unless you watch Fox news or the daily wire where you can see them doing it.
Yes.
Can you make a very in depth video on how the show can be better in season 2 please
The correct answer is always "could be gayer"
Agreed
Came looking for this comment right away. So true
Took the words right out of my mouth. Lol
Should have been gayer.
👍
Why do we still call it a love triangle? A triangle has equal sides. Two guys bothering one girl is a corner or an angle. Unless the guys are also crushing on each other it's a love corner.
And she isn't even interested in either of them, so it's just two incelly guys bothering a girl who just wants to solve a murder mystery
Good point! VERY good point!
Can you imagine, though? A polyangle?
...It needs to be gayer.
@@Readus101 Tyler's actor is gay, btw. I think that's cool. A gay actor playing a straight character for a change!
Oh, that's a story I would love to see. Imagine a move/series, in wich it looks like there are two people crushing on one person, and the audience thinks it's a traditional "love triangle", but actually everydody is faling in love with everybody. So in the climax of the story, the three people come to an agreement that they are madly in love with each other, so they become a triad. I would pay money to watch that!
@@laninfapimentel311 a show on Freeform called Siren actually did that but it unfortunately got cancelled.
I was torn between wanting Wednesday herself to be ace or being a lesbian and get together with Enid.
Ace lesbians exist so kinda would be cool if she was both.
Aroaces, lesbians and ace lesbians all agreeing that the straight trash was bad
It's not helped that both her suiters are like off brand Makos, Avatar LoK,
yes yes, this take pleases me
enid? She can still be demi?
As a Aromantic person, I also immediately read Wednesday as Aro. She's clearly not really interested in either of her male love interests as ... love interests. She engages with them in almost the same way as she does with Enid or with Bianca for much of the series - as people to be tolerated, as people who could be useful to her, and at most as allies. She only engages in romantic social activities under extreme social pressure (Thing's note in the tip jar resulting in Tyler showing up at her door; Asking Xavier to the dance to cover up her snooping) and she's clearly EXTREMELY uncomfortable with all of it, and not uncomfortable in the same way that an Alloromantic student like Enid is when she's on her various dates. The only interest at all she shows in the dance is an opportunity to wear a pretty dress (which is a desire she immediately suppresses as frivolous of course). She does show some interest in the physical aspect of her relationship with Tyler, and it's pretty clear (to me at least) that she doesn't find the physical aspects of romance as disgusting or completely uninteresting, so it's not necessarily that she's Ace (which so often and is more commonly is associated with being Aro). The frustration that her "love interests" show at her lack of reciprocation also tracks extremely well with my experience being Aro - she just doesn't want that experience of a romantic relationship the same way that they do - The whole thing is confusing to her.
I highly doubt we'll get a real Aromantic representation of Wednesday though, even with her declaration " I'm not like you - I'll never fall in love or have a family" a statement we are meant to read as a youth being naiive, rather than one of a young woman who really and truly knows her mind - who understands herself and knows that this particular vision of life isn't one that appeals.
Straight here but honestly I couldn't agree more. I absolutely hated that everyone wanted to make her gay.
Like school of good and evil was the friendship that should have been gay, not Wednesday and enid. Wednesday was about as asexual as we can possibly get, And honestly, I get tired of EVERY DAMNED PIECE OF MEDIA being about everyone having sex with everyone.
I felt she was aromantic too! I'd love to see more ace, aro/ace, and aro rep and with the way Wednesday is presented I feel like she would be good aro rep where it's just aro and not aro/ace. I think she has some chemistry with Bianca which would be good more-than-friends energy but I would love her relationship with Enid to stay platonic.
I'm asexual but *VERY* romantic(and I'm currently having a crush on Wednesday!😉🖤)so having"ships"in TV shows it's a thing I usually appreciate very much and also I would like to see characters being portraited as asexuals but *NOT* aromantic...I hate the implication that whenever characters fall in love(even the ones from kids' cartoons or shows)they MUST also be interested in the sexual aspect,but,anyway,back to Wednesday...it IS true that whenever she hangs out with people it's only to use them for help(I'm on ep 6 currently)so her being aromantic would make a lot of sense...HOWEVER,even not counting the '93 movie in which her Christina Ricci self seemed to be at least on some degree interested in Joel,she's also an Addams,so I wonder if she'd simply like to have a relationship that was a bit more"kinky"in order to find it interesting. I mean...as long as they try to pair her up with"normal"people of course she wouldn't be interested..because they're simply too different!But what if her boyfriend(or girlfriend)had the same interests that _she_ has?Would she still be unimpressed?🤔
I don't know why Wednesday being Aro hadn't occurred to me but wow actually yeah that would fit really well and be really interesting if they were bold enough to do it.
Honestly, same. I interpreted her as Ace/Aro all the way when I saw Values. People talk about her "love interest" but it's implied she literally kills that B.
I think the reason that there's no queerness at this obviously queer school is because of two words:
Tim. Burton.
Tim Burton is a cis white man who considers himself to be an outcast because he is edgy and macabre and goth. I don't think he realizes that all of the outcast allegories aren't exclusively about him.
Ding ding ding ding! This is why many of us have gotten tired of his schtick, frankly, in an age where we've finally gotten the representation we've always wanted but didn't think we'd ever get in earnest.
Tim Burton is a cis white man ...and your problem is??
@@isabellascalzitti9524 I think you ignored everything after the words "cis white man." Keep reading and maybe you'll find the point I was trying to make.
Do we have to have an LGBT main charecter in everything? I can easily say why are there no Asian main characters in this show. Why are there no middle east people. Why no eastern Europeans with thick slavic accents. Why no native Indians even when Crackstone stole their land?
@@Lexichi22 thanks but I read, and it all starts from an unacceptable prejudice ... he is like this and therefore he behaves like this
Enid’s ‘conversion therapy’ scene was so on the nose. I think the story, dynamic with parents and Wednesday would feel so much deeper if they had made Enid queer and have some attraction to Wednesday. Instead, the show placed her in a heterosexual romance in which she seemed to have no actual chemistry.
She likes Ajax, sorry
Raise your hands if Werewolf conversion camp threw you for a loop.
Although since werewolves all eventually wolf out the conversion camp allegory doesn't work.
Also Wednesday is an aroace icon
Maybe it does because every gay person that was forced to go to conversion camps was gay when left.
Conversion camps are for the parents to think they fixed something not broken with their children.
i mean, conversion camps also dont work that way in real life
If I had not been watching this with my sister over Thanksgiving visit, I'd have quit the show at that moment.
* raises hand right away *
The scene would make more sense/of an impact if she didn't want to wolf out.
WEEMS WAS AMAZING. She was literally just a better Snape.
She didn't bully students for their parents' crimes, and her gray morality of keeping the careful balance was actually understandable. Killing her off was the biggest crime. (next to whatever straight agenda they were pushing)
daaamn spoiler alerts pls D:
@@YouAreStillNotablaze I'm sorry, but the video is already filled with all the major spoilers since he talks about the Weems-Walker plot, Weems' powers, Tyler is the Hyde, Marilyn is behind it, her wanting to resurrect Cragstone, what the Hydes are, the nightshade poisoning, the land the school is built on... He talks about all of that, but my one comments is a spoiler? That is unfair. He spoils all the major plot points so this comment section is a spoiler zone.
Weems got done dirty!
Yeah, they shouldn’t have killed her. She was such a well-written character. A principal willing to do the wrong things for the right reasons.
No agenda, they were just trying to entertain a general audience, most of whom are not gay. I think gay people are spoiled as they expect all television shows to cater specifically to them. Not every show is going to have a gay person in it.
I've said it before, but I don't know if you ever got to read it so I'll say it again, because it bears repeating: I find your demeanour immensely cozy and pleasant. It's delightful and makes your videos very easy to watch. I hope you keep doing what you do!
I watched Wednesday feeling precisely the same: Enjoying all the unapologetic darkness and "Wednesdayness" but unlimately feeling bitter that allegory was all we got. Like, the opportunity was RIGHT THERE - they set the stage and then did absolutely nothing with it. Disappointing, but given Tim Burton I wasn't too surprised. Also she had more chemistry with Bianca/Enid/Eugene than either of her male love interests, dry as oats. And clearly uninvited by Wednesday herself.
I am a cis straight black man and I need to rewatch Wednesday with a critical eye.
Unfortunately when I watch a good show I get lost in the story and just enjoy.
After watching this light bulbs are exploding over my head.
👏👏👏 He said it! WE SHOULD BE GETTING MORE THAN ALLEGORY AT THIS POINT! It was, as I have described, aesthetically neurodivergent, aesthetically queer, and used aesthetic minority representation that was commercially beautiful in a way that made sure not to isolate anyone... Including people who hate on, bully, and attack these groups. That's a problem that's hard to look the other way from, and I think it's even more obvious in the way the fandom is reacting.
Are you some kind of doctor? as you are talking like a brain surgeon throwing this scientific mumbo jumbo around like that neurodivergent etc.
I definitely got the vibe that Wednesday was Ace/Aromatic, but I do love her connection w/ Enid. I get why so many ship them!!
I had an issue with the over usage of "woke" terminology, like when Wednesday said Xavier saved because "patriarchy", when all he did was literally just save her from a falling statue, and then said he was "mansplaining" her psychic powers to her, when he's literally the child of a famous and powerful seer. He'd know stuff about it, especially considering he also experiences them.
Yeah they tried using words they didn’t quite understand
The show was being critical of her woke terminology as she was also showing ingratitude to the guy for saving her life. Wednesday has some character flaws, working them out is part of her character arc, she is no Mary Sue who is always right, that's for sure!
@@thomaskalbfus2005 fair, but then what about the "wolf out conversion therapy camp"? I tried to find a way to make it work, ultimately, I think that line should have been scrapped or changed. Because Enid did wolf out, so what does that mean? What metaphor were they going for?
Feminism and the gay movement aren't one and the same. Plenty of women who wanted fair treatment and to be treated equally as men were nevertheless interested in men as their romantic partners not other women. I believe in fair treatment too, that doesn't mean that I expect everyone to be gay or that I expect every movie or television show to include a gay character. Not all shows had black people in it either.
When I look at the Addams family television show, I can't remember an episode that had a black guest star in it, all the people visiting their home, as far as I can remember were white.
@@thomaskalbfus2005 i wasn't talking about the same thing, and woke doesn't only cover lgbt or feminism.
La'Ron: "Not even one of them is actually queer?"
Me: "THANK YOU! Thank you! Thank you. SOMEBODY FINALLY SAID IT OUT LOUD!"
Depends on what usage of the word queer you are talking about, queer also means strange, and on the show Wednesday, there were a lot of strange characters, they just weren't gay that's all!
@@thomaskalbfus2005 True but given how the show had the theme of being othered and even leaned into things queer people can relate to (e.g. Enid being in a conversion therapy group), it is a bit disappointing to some people that she (along with Wednesday) aren't canonically queer and the audience is just left with only subtext. The characters can be both flavors of "queer". It doesn't have to be an either or thing.
@@mjangelvortex remember what Wednesdays first act was which got her sent to Nevermore Academy in the first place, she sicked some piranhas on some bullies in the school swimming pool! Wednesday has some serious problems above and beyond not being able to relate to normal people! Wednesday is a flawed character on a sort of redemption arc. Most gay people don't typically sick piranhas on people to get revenge, she clearly has behavioral problems, she needs to improve herself to get along with people, society cannot just accept her on her own level at episode 1. Over the course of the first season, she learns the value of friendship.
@@thomaskalbfus2005 Oh gee. Thanks for telling me that most queer people don't have access to piranhas. Is siccing a bunch of wild animals on bullies like a cartoon character a straight people thing? Are troubled flawed people who go through character arcs to become better only a straight people thing too? Having friends is a straight people only thing as well? I didn't know that.
25:43 thank you! If Wednesday can acknowledge that she has latina ancestry (it's referenced and they did cast Latino actors for her, Gomez and Fester and they did acknowledge in the script), then Bianca, the mayor and his kid can know that they're black.
Also Pilgrim World is so messed up. It's like those Disney projects about America and something more sinister but I can't fully get and don't have the evidence for.
Yeah it kind of reminded me of the thing I heard about the song of the south section of Disney land
I wonder if pilgrim town was supposed to be a call back to camp chippewa from the films? ... if so I must say it's arc and resolution was less well executed IMO.
Also Pilgrims didn't wear the black hats with the belt buckles on top, that is just on the paintings. Pilgrims didn't dress identically the way the Pilgrims in Pilgrim World were depicting.
Originally Uncle Fester was Morticia's brother and she was French, not Latina.
@@thomaskalbfus2005 Yeah, this is true but some adaptions make Fester related to Gomez (and Gomez is a Latin name). Kinda like how Grandma is sometimes Gomez's mom in some adaptions but in others she's Mortica's. They've never really been consistent with who those two are directly related to. This adaption is completely new and seperate from the others, so they can freely make Fester Latino if they wanted to.
Wednesday's perfect match is literally right there In her room and yet the show wants me to root for 1 of 2 mediocre dudes
lmao yes, i saw a meme that said, “watching Xavier and Tyler trying to date Wednesday” with a picture of a guy holding up a sign that said, “i just hope both teams lose”
If Wednesday was to have an LI, I wish it was Enid. She had such solid chemistry with her. I also could've rolled with her being ace.
Jenna Ortega has said she would have liked them to be the main relationship. And I think their on screen chemistry is definitely driving the ships.
How many enemy aircraft did she shoot down? I think you have to get ten in a row to be considered an ace.
@@thomaskalbfus2005 love this!
@@CCLOSPINA that is what the Church talks about when it says "love thy neighbor" or "love your enemies". I love my daughters and son, that could be called Platonic as I don't engage in sexual relations with them, neither is it romance. Sexual relations is what defines romance, without that it is the same as the other kinds of love I mentioned.
I really hope Season 2 of Wednesday has her and Edina get together, not only to move away from the cis love triangle (corner as another commentator pointed out) but to show that Wednesday hugging Edina at the end was more impactful than "ahh their bffs now, that soo cute, lets have Wednesday kiss a guy and give zero emotional reason than cis puberty."
A part of the series that shows how it only uses queeness aesthetically is Enid's "wolfing out" arc.
To me as an aroace neurodivergent person, it read like an allegory to being aro/ace-spec (also disabled, but i haven't quite figured out how to articulate my thoughts on that yet) up until the last episode at least. She’s told she’s just a late bloomer, something a lot of young ace ppl are told. She worries that if she never “wolfs-out” she’ll be outcast from her own kind, this is similar to how aro and ace people often get excluded from LGBT+ communities. Enid saying she’ll never be able to get married and fearing ending up alone for her whole life if she doesn't wolf out, reminds me of how some people think you can’t be in a relationship if your aro/ace-spec and having to overcome the internalized idea you have to be in a relationship/get married to be happy, because that what your told you should want and that it something that makes you whole by society.
I thought her arc was going to end with accepting that she won’t wolf out, but that doesn't make her broken or mean she’ll end up unhappy or something. Especially after she stood up to her mom. But instead she wolfed out at the end of the series. Even without an allegory, it felt like it undercut her arc as a whole to end it with “yep, she was just a late bloomer”, like that was the only satisfying way to.
Hopefully this is all coherent, I have trouble organizing my thoughts and am tired rn.
Happy to see a comment about this. I totally agree. Enid has this whole journey of acceptance that she’s already enough and the ending wrecks that
As much as I do agree, maybe this could be read as Enid being on the Demi spec instead of being a full allo.
@@redballoon9007 That did occur to me a little bit after I wrote my comment. There's some support for it with how Enid wolfing out comes after her relationship with snake guy (I forget his name) starts to bloosom. But it's not after she forms a strong bond with him (at least, I don't think their very close), it seems to be from them making out. It's a valid reading, but not the strongest imo.
lots of jargon here aro-ace-spec etc. I'll have to consult a brain surgeon to find out what you mean.
@@thomaskalbfus2005 Dictionaries, Google, and Wikipedia all list the definitions for these things just fine. But maybe the brain surgeon can fix that nasty attitude of yours.
Nevermore is basically Monster High, and I definitely get vibes that some of those characters should've been LGBTQ, like Clawdia, she's one of the only of the main group that isn't constantly after guys, or dating, so makes it seem like she could be, but it's never addressed. There's way more questionable stuff in the books the dolls are based off. It's almost entirely different from the cartoon. I'd argue it's even not for pre-teen with some of the subject matter, and the idea the monsters fled to Salem, Oregon, and in the books had to hide to acclimate like Clawdia being a werewolf having to shave everyday, because her hair grew out too quick, Invisi-Billy not even able to go to school because he's invisible, because there is no school for monsters in the book, they're forced to hide and acclimate any way they can. Hiding every aspect of themselves that made them monsters.
Clawdia is definitely a ace lesbian
@@WinterfromWoF Right!? Absolutely get those vibes from her.
Some people just aren't interested in dating anyone, not everyone in high school dates, that doesn't mean they are gay, it just means they are serious students that concentrate on getting good grades or whatever.
"not even one of them is actually queer? In 2022? ON NETFLIX?!"
Hit the nail in the head. While I loved the show for what it was as well (I will definitely be keeping an eye out for the next video essay), Wednesday is not into any of these boys and is literally shown just sort of going with it when they each express feelings for her. She's not really into it. But it felt that the last few episodes were trying to push the hetero normative agenda hard. I felt that Wednesday realising that she has feelings for someone who isn't a straight shite boy would have been more appropriate or even that she discovers that she is asexual but still has romantic feelings for Enid for example. Obviously it's only the first season and these things could still happen but it's not really looking great for us of the alphabet gang.
Why is every pairing seemingly heterosexual and monogamous at a school for outcasts? Why are the only queer couple the weird kid's parents who barely have any screen time? Why are we still asking for representation in 2022?!
Also, this is a separate point, I don't think Wednesday would be grossed out by how much her parents love each other. It's all she knows. In the '90s films, she doesn't react badly to seeing her parents love each other and even emulates her parent's relationship with each other when she and Joel have their little romance. Also Joel clearly doesn't see her as property or have the need to be forceful with her as he recognised Wednesday for who she is. When they are around 12/13 years old. I know this series is a new iteration, but I do think they should have stuck more to the core values of Wednesday's character
I spotted what looked to be an intentional lesbian couple at the Rave'n, but queer people shouldn't be relegated to Easter Eggs or coded references at this point.
@@dinosaysrawr exactly. We shouldn't have to play "spot the queer" whenever we watch a show
But she hasn't any connection to enid. She's a friend but that's it. I feel like just basic friendh ships without any sexual connotations is just incomprehensible to people these days because media seems to never portray them.
@@SerifSansSerif I'm not saying that she has to fall in love with Enid but that that could have been an opportunity. She could fall in love with anyone who isn't a straight white male and I would be happy. But also I think it's okay to rely on the trope of friends to lovers if it's done well and the characters have other friends outside of that
Her reacting the way she did when seeing her parents being affectionate towards each other was the most accurate teenage thing I saw in the show. I mean who wants to watch there parents make out? Also it's been stated that this show is not sequel to the previous iterations of the Addams family (there were quite a few of them), it is its own thing with references to the previous ones like from the 60s shows and the 90s films
23:37 The answer is Tim Burton. I enjoyed Netflix’s Wednesday and most of that was due to primarily Jenna Ortega’s performance. It is refreshing as a latina gen-x’r to see latinx representation that is not always Charo (who wasn’t even Latina!) and it’s modern version of Modern Family’s Gloria Delgado . Between Aubrey Plaza and Jenna Ortega they’ve managed to add a bit of dimension to the latina trope in the form of yes! We can be Emo too! But keep in mind these are very light skinned latinas (put a pin in that). I also tremendously enjoyed Gwendoline Christie being allowed to go full glorious Queen that she is. That helped the show A LOT!
But back to Tim Burton. Tim Burton’s filmography, his whole reason of being is an ode to being the WHITE emo outcast kid, thus, he can’t help but to see everything and everyone’s outcast trauma as being the same AND IT IS NOT. I think it was La’ron that did a video on The Craft and he mentioned how the trauma suffered by Rachel True’s character was equivalent to the bullying/ostracism that the other girls experienced and IT ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT!! and so then I start to think about the people that claim All Lives Matter, because to them, all pain is equivalent. If you look at Tim Burton’s filmography he has never worked with a cast of color (except maybe for Dumbo and don’t tell me some Disney exec didn’t play a part in that) AND his answer to the outcast is that society SHOULD tolerate them or at the very least leave them alone. Edward Scissorhands - left alone, Batman -left alone, Sweeny Todd- dies alone. And that’s not enough damn it! As a metaphor to our society’s current ills and how to solve them, minimal tolerance is not the answer! And so, I don’t expect the future seasons to get better, sad to say. I predict this show is just going to have a quiet little death after a few seasons. Plus they also already killed Principal Weems, talk about bury your gays amaright? My metaphor for this show is that it’s the same no seasoning boiled chicken, some melanin challenged individuals are known to make and accidentally someone opened a container of Goya Adobo nearby and now we are getting hints of this and a touch of that, and is that a reduction? But no. Same ol’ sad chicken.
Also, Who’s the actress that plays Bianca’s mother? I know she’s not Stacey Dash but damn! Is it me or was she styled to look like a clone of Stacey Dash?
Sorry this went so long. Something about Professor La’Ron’s essays just get my creative juices flowing 😂
Edited to add: after reading all the comments it breaks my heart to think that this is going to be Supernatural all over again 😔
As imperfect as the Wednesday series was, I definitely wish I could go to Nevermore way more than I want to go to Hogwarts now. LOL.
Thank you! You put your finger right on what I wanted to say about Wednesday. It wasn't that it failed to live up to its roots, it is that it failed to be courageous enough to take the next step.
Everytime you brought up that colonizers I couldn't stop thinking Joseph CRACKERstone lol
Bwahahaha. Not crackerstone 🤣
Meanwhile, in season four of Dragon Prince..... Well, I don't wanna spoil. But my heart grew three sizes. That show does representation real good. Check it out if you need a counterbalance to this disappointment. Another great video, La'Ron, thank you. 🖤
I loved Weems. And as cute as Enid is, my ship is Wednesday and Bianca. Enemies to friends to lovers 😏
Finally someone that ships crackships in Wednesday
"The black characters act like they don't know they're black" DUDE I WAS HOPING SOMEONE WOULD SAY THAT-- I WAS NOTICING THAT THROUGHOUT THE SHOW!
not a straight person at that school i wish someone would tell netflix
I was definitely getting bisexual disaster vibes from Enid the entire time, and Wednesday was giving ASD demi-or-ace.
My favorite aspect of the show was the mystery and discovering other character's powers.
I think it’s worth noting that Tim Burton has gone on record to say that he gets his story concepts from his dreams, and that the reason he didn’t cast black actors in his projects for so long was because they were never in his dreams. It wouldn’t at all surprise me if queerness just isn’t represented in “his dreams” either
Wednesday is aromantic in my eyes
I liked the show, and your examination of it! Agreed that the "love triangle" bit was weird... like others here have said, it felt more like two guys who couldn't deal with being in the "friend zone" more than anything. I also read Wednesday as being more likely AroAce since she didn't seem to want/care about getting romantic with anyone (while this seemed top of mind for everyone else in this show).
i totally understand your point in the video, and the irony that the most developped relationship with open act of love is between Wednesday and her roomate Enid, which is the biggest ship in 2022 (i stand on my opinion on that one) tell a lot. they are great "friends" and we saw the evolution of their relationship just like it would be in a romantic one , but it platonic. ( for now)
Not all love is romantic love. I love my daughter for instance, but I don't have a romantic relationship with her, I don't do that. Gays should not misunderstand all love to be the kind where people have romance and sex.
La'Ron trying not to laugh while he sips his tea - Priceless.
The first Avatar would have been far better with actual indigenous people not just writing it, but being characters within the story. There could have been a lot of commiseration and sharing of information between which ever peoples were present in the story and the Navi. Not just some white dude becoming a savior figure.
I also have a lot of critiques/ problems with the Wednesday series in a few areas, but I still quite enjoyed it. Still processing the eyebrow raising moments within the show though. Looking forwards to hearing your words in the next video.
It also worth noting that the 1960s series was a social commentary about conformity of the era.
Netflix: Makes extremely queer but not queer show.
Netflix: Cancels different actually queer show 2 weeks later.
Warrior Nun? Cuz the fandom is rioting over the cancellation.
@@shiny2401 Yes I tweet about it every day.
At 17:38, I was so fully expecting you to say, "Unfortunately, however, allegory was beginning to be... all-egory." ... which is so often the case with representation in media. "Allegory is all-egory" is a good, concise sign to tap every time I'm disappointed to have to put up with subtext.
As my friend said when I told her about this, "No more subtext, we want domtext."
This video introduced me to your channel. As a long-time Addams Family / Charles Addams fan, I appreciated your great, funny and insightful essay! Keep up the great work! Happy Holidays!
thanks so much for talking about this! I adored this review and I like how even if you didn't like some parts you didn't hold it against the series, like many creators did in the reviews of the series
I was just waiting for better queer and POC representation, and never got it. Guess I shouldn't be surprised by Tim Burton at this point.
This is off topic but that Batman Arkham poster 👍
I love this channel.I don't watch a lot of shows or films but I relish in media analyses c: You're doing a wonderful job taking everything apart bit by bit so that even someone without prior knowledge can follow along with your line of argument.
Bruh, the bell's been struck and I still didn't get notified of this video when it dropped. :|
A good workaround for this is to follow my Patreon account for free! You'll get an email/app notification around 5 minutes after my videos go live to the public so you don't have to rely on the iffy notification bell!
this made me see the show in a new light, keep up the great work!
I enjoyed the series, but I was so disappointed that they had to do the CW love triangle with Wednesday instead of letting her be aro/ace as she is coded in the movies. That would have been such great representation
I agree with all of this! I enjoyed so much of it, but it fell short with the queerness which I honestly found surprising. I was like "Really!? In 2022 America?!?! In this economy?!" XD I wish they would just say it sometimes. It was all implications and I was already hesitant with POC characters. I liked them more than I thought I would, but there were just some things that were off too. Which Tim Burton and his weird ass racism is a whole 'nother topic.
Great review! I always appreciate your thoughts and perspective
Another fun to watch video. The way you talk about your topics always makes them easy to digest and very enjoyable. Thank you for your videos and all the work you put into them👍
Seems like Burton has always been good at presenting these outcast themes without making this connection.
It's so sad how we have to go around with our magnifying glasses seeking out any crumbs of queerness.
Nevermore is like my queer high school fantasy except for the glaring absence of canon queer characters
Love triangles only work if you can see why the characters would be into each other.
Not enough sadly also what are your thoughts on Tim Burton when it comes to having black actors in his films ?
Tim Burton is a mixture of edge lord, aging goth and anti SJW.
😂what black actors in his films?
alltho you are 100% right, I also feel like we ain't seen nothing of this show yet
You back!!! 🌻
Another thing about Enid, is that she's a werewolf- but all throughout the series, she refers to herself as a cat with words like "kitty" and her team's name and costumes being cats for the contest!! Her hair is also pink and blue.
As a trans guy, everything about Enid screamed "trans" to me. It's one of the reasons why I love her character
That long sip was pure ASMR.
I wouldn't call principal Wheem's perspective bipartisan, but rather pragmatic. It's not about forgetting or forgiving past atrocities, or "not taking sides". But putting on a show of meekness and go under the radar for the protection, no matter how fragile said protection is.
To follow up the connection to X-Men, I would like to quote Emma Frost making a "welcome" speech to the new students:
"So, what have we learned? We have learned the first lesson. They will always hate us. We will
never live in a world of peace. Which is why control and non-violence are essential. We must
prove ourselves a peaceful people. We must give the ordinary humans respect, compliance and
understanding. And must never mistake that for trust..."
Wednesday feels totally aromantic to me. Like it's a fun idea to see what romantic relationship Wednesday would be in because if she has a type it's probably not expected (or basic like the guys in the show pls). But as a character, she just doesn't seem interested in or bothered with romance.
But ofc if she were romantically attracted to any character it should be Enid as it's just as unexpected as I would want a Wednesday partner to be and they had the most chemistry and the tightest bond out of the other options.
But also as an aro who simply doesn't understand what the heck "romantic attraction" is (because all relationships are inherently romantic to me in a more artistic (?) since of the word) I think Wednesday is, in a sense, romantically involved with Enid if the definition for romance is less focused on sexual, exclusive relationships and more on the fact that they have a special connection and they enjoy each other's space a bit.
So my ship is still successful :)
I know at around the 7 min mark you said "gaze of societal standards" but my brain heard "gays of societal standards," and the image of a group of very judgy gays in high society setting the standards of dress, norms, and manners made me giggle
Gays can be pretty judgy...
I liked the show, Jenna Ortega’s depiction of Wednesday was very well done and it felt very camp with a modern twist. But yes, it really sucked that none of the characters at never more are queer, as far as we know. It’s all so queer coded, especially Enid, they should just make them gay. #wenclair
Have you seen "The Half of It" on Netflix? There are some things it does that I haven't seen much of.
I can't say shit since I haven't watched the show yet but it does look painfully straight. The fanfics on the other hand are certainly very very gay and I love them, maybe one day i'll actually watch the show but who knows lol
Even the allegories are painfully done by someone who is straight and has never had to worry about their sexuality being taken wrong.
Never seen it (and fortunately now I don't have to) as for the other homework *Furrows brow, forms a grimace, tilts head....."um...?..?"
Here's me thinking you meant Thing when you pointed to your hand >n
Rip
I think one of the creators that worked on the show wanted more queer rep, but I don't remember the motive for not going in that direction
Burton being shockingly conservative?
@@marocat4749 possibly
That tea about the prominent African American characters was scalding 😂
I loved Wednesday and thinnk it was a great show, but I really had to suspend my disbelief when the obviously gay werewolf was trying to date some dude.
The show was good but it would have been so much better if it were far gayer and had actual queer relationships rather than just obviously gay characters who don't get together.
Goddamn, that's pathetic. TV shows love to write about being gay but have no gay characters in their main cast, huh?
I love the show, but hate the love triangle. Tyler turns out to be evil, and Xavier needs character development before I see him as a love interest.
I'd probably have enjoyed this show more if it weren't being presented as an Addams Family property (while I also recognize that it would NEVER have gotten funding if they hadn't gone this route, and you can ABSOLUTELY see the bones of what was meant to be an original story showing through). And I would have especially liked it more if they hadn't stuck with the all-allegory route.
But at this point, I don't actually expect things that make me happy from Tim Burton and his cohorts.
I think something that did a wonderful job on the allegory but failed miserably in the LGBTQ section is The School of Good and Evil. Let’s be honest. We all wanted that true love’s kiss to be a kiss on the lips between the two girls. But nope. Such a let down.
15:19 when he says normalcy, i get SCP flashbacks
Im still mad Enid and Wednesday didnt end up together
There's still a chance
Enid ending as sow burn friends to mo could also leading organic to a season 2 where enids parent try to get her out of school and into an engagment, and you might have a family conflict and wednesday and her having to deal with that, you could even have a parents off conflict.
ik how the hell did that not end in her and enid in any kind of close relationship only, that is more.
It's not a movie or show, but a game (but arguing that games are just as valid as a medium is a hill I am willing to die on) and that is Detroit: Become Human. That game had such a good premise to deal with racism to queerdom to cyberpunk themes (the genre, not the game) and it failed across the board. It even had a thing where androids had to sit in the back of the bus. The game kept saying "yes, I know this social issue exists" and then did nothing to actually explore that issue.
The while time I was watching this show I was so split between wanting Wednesday to be AroAce and wanting her to be gay and be with Enid and I think a lot of people can agree....
I really enjoyed the show personally, I see it’s shortcomings, like many of us do. But, I can’t deny that it was a really good watch. Even if I called the monster in a few episodes and the villain, to me was lackluster at best. I can confidently say that this show is worth the watch and I hope that season two keeps what made this show good and improves on what was lacking.
the fact that divina and yoko are in a relationship and ajax's moms are also gay but the show goes out of its way to hide it smh
Yo can we talk about how the modern day “colorblind” teen villan is poc if not black Like..??? We see you propaganda.
Let's hope it's just a slow burn friends to lovers between Enid and Wednesday
Woooo that was a long sip of🍵🍵🍵
The only possible queer students are Yoko and Divina who are exclusively background characters that sometimes are seen hanging around all buddy buddy and dancing together. More odd that Yoko gets no spotlight despite being so important to Enid? No faces and especially vampires get ignored a lot and I hope they get more attention next season.
I really liked this show for everything besides the reasons you explored or hinted at in this video. And the amount of meaningless hetero relationships that happened in a show with just 8 episodes started to annoy me. And only one of those was barely plot relevant. And as always these hetero relationships didn't get any meaningful development while Wednesday's friendship with Enid had a real arc to it. So of course I started shipping Enid and Wednesday over the boring options. But everything else really worked for me. I just like the vibe of the show and Wednesday as a character.
Isn’t Principal Weems sapphic for Morticia? At least that was how I interpreted the tension between them
Discovery of Witches was the worst for allegory that didn't need to be--having a white, blue eyed, blonde haired protag yelling to her black lesbian aunt about how bigotry is keeping her apart from her love, an "interspecies relationship" with her white dude vampire... Like y'all got interracial and gay relationships through this whole show, but had to make it about two white heteronormative people???
I was strangely surprised when I first heard others say there was a love triangle. In my mind she had several male friends, some of which had a crush on her. I even thought there was a third with a crush, though I believe I was thinking of the boy that tried to kill her.
Upon reviewing, though, I realized the writers really did lean into the love triangle trope. They subverted the trope - only one actually liked her - but definitely played with it.
You can tell it was written by a straight person with the conversion therapy plot.
I liked Wednesday but I did agree with your thoughts.
As for films/movies that I think would do better just being gay than allegory or having a good intermingling of the two (i.e some of the more modern X Men comics and The Shape of Water), I think pretty much any modern movie that centres around a 'forbidden' heterosexual romance are just plain ridiculous and unnecessary in this day and age.
It's not out yet but I am glad so much of twitter was clowning on that fire girl/water boy DreamWorks movie that's coming out because, really, who needs that in the year 2022 (nearly '23)?? And speaking of kids' movies (obvious shoutout to Luca which _definitely_ should've just been both textually queer and allegory), who really needs more more children's movies about how "everyone's different and that's okay" when those differences ONLY amount to usually a white kid being kind of a nerd or a bit of a goth or short or something and basically never anything more substantial that is the actual source of far more bullying/exclusion among kids like queerness, neurodivergence/disability and cultural differences, or tackling the unconscious biases in kids/people in general that derive from those things?
And this last one isn't a film or a television show but I always felt like GTA V, namely Michael's storyline (especially in relation to Trevor, Franklin's storyline is very much a different thing thematically), was weirdly allegorical to the emptiness sexual repression, heteronormativity and appealing to respectability politics brings to the extent that I legitimately do not know how else straight people interpret it and I have no idea how intentional the subtext was. Judging from the in-canon jokes about Michael and Trevor, Trevor's own overt bisexuality and jealousy of Michae's wife, and Trevor outright calling Michael 'repressed' ( _what_ exactly he's repressing, if we stick just to what's textually canon, seems to just be...the urge to commit crimes? Jokes about how he should try speed?), I'd say it was at least a little bit intentional.
agree with your post here and yeah the forbidden str8 romance is always a comical desperate ploy to me lol
yeah and the "everyone's different and that's okay" that is also obnoxious in its own way and also gets ridiculous for everything u said
also i agree with the whole Trevor , Michael, GTA v,-- i did feel like there was reasonable interpretation / subtext for Trevor having feelings for Michael at the very least, and it having had been/is reciprocal at the very most.
i think much of what you mention would fly would fly over str8 ppl's heads, and likely be thought of as absolutely ridiculous becuz anything queer and especially mlm is just often seen as far'fetched and not fathomable to begin with. especially if it's in the subtext/non-explicit sphere
Is aro or ace not a queer identity?
The titular character is Aromantic. And likely on the asexual spectrum somewhere (though seemingly not *completely* repulsed by the idea of physical intimacy)
While I agree that they absolutely could have and should have had at least one queer couple saying there are no queer characters is not true.
Wednesday is queer.
Wolf girl and wendsday should have been the up front couple it would be so good
If they won't bring Wednesday and Enid together in future seasons - I'll be very disappointed
Although I agree with you in almost everything, the representation part bothers me a lot as a bisexual person. Yes we need more explicitly said queerness, but we don't actually know if nobody there is bi or pansexual. We don't know (yet) and we deserve to know, but just assuming that because someone does not fit your view on how queerness should be portrait really bothers me.
I love the cultural identity built into their characters in this depiction although I feel like the show is it’s own thing with a bunch of Addams Family references…
I haaated everything about the, as you say, monogamy-promoting heteronormative love "triangle." #makewednesdaygay