Heteronormativity: How it Stunts Queer Representation | READUS 101
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Heteronormativity: How it Stunts Queer Representation || While queer representation in movies, tv and video games is as higher as its ever been, heteronormativity in movies, tv and video games is always present in trying to police how gay the characters are allowed to be instead of just giving the representation of lgbtq individuals the same equality as straight characters. So I break down exactly how heteronormativity stunts queer representation in film, television and video games, using The Mitchells vs. The Machines, The Quarry, and Q-Force as examples of what and what not to do.
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References
Queer Theory Now: From Foundations to Futures by Hannah McCann and Whitney Managhan
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The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America by Richard Rothstein
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How the Nuclear Family Structure Was Forced Upon Present-Day Black Families by Andray Domise | Macleans (Aug 19, 2020)
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Ignoring the Sexualization of Race: Heteronormativity, Critical Race Theory, and Anti-Racist Politics by Darren Lenard Hutchison | Buffalo Law Review (Winter 1999)
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How Watermelons Became A Racist Trope by William R. Black | The Atlantic
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00:00 Intro
03:31 What is Heteronormativity?
09:51 Mining For Gold
24:00 One of the Good Ones
36:20 Get Used To It
43:19 Conclusion
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• Heteronormativity: How... - Розваги
There are links to every book and article I reference in this video essay in the description!
Dunno if it fits, but poly relationships in media? Just throping against the wall. Its as problematic portrayed, not in one but follow a creator that doe a lot about it, and a lot . Could be intersting.
congrats, you have gotten me over the hump to try out Qforce. i have been avoiding it due to the unhealthy limbo of the vestiges of my internalized homophobia and fear of it just being a punch down comedy
u are so underrated dude!
@@SolidLink64 I dont know if youve watched but if you havent. It is all either punch up or community in jokes that are used as the basis for comedy. Its joke about lesbians and Subaru cars, and trans people drinking to much monster energy. The jokes we tell to eachother about ourselves
@@marocat4749 die Woche schon zu voll und die positiven Dinge zu Hause und kann ich dich dann auch direkt zum Arzt und ii ist das okay wenn ihr angekommen seit langem Urlaub fahren können sie mich wissen wie viel zu lang ihr beide seid nicht so krass und es gibt es was komplett in den Augen der
Also, I HATE that if you choose to kiss Kaitlyn, its shown right in front of scene. While Dylan is just far enough to acknowledge that they kissed...wtf
Very good observation, right!? We have a gay romance but don't worry it's not in your face
@@gemain609 yeah...
Never saw anyone kiss Kaitlyn, so I didn't know, but yikes.
@@gemain609 well Ryan isn't gay he is bisexual,, non of them are overly stating their orientation, also his bisexuality is early caught on in the decision when Dylan ask him if he he prefers guys or girls and his answer is freelance, also I don't think this is done intentionally, it's easier to write what you know, would you rather them try and tackle the situation and just complete botch it because they were focusing too much on it except of doing it naturally from a writer that was gay if they were on the team
And also I always hated that they made Ryan And Dylan's romance a choice while they were shoving straight relations left to right Like Laura and Max, Jacob and Emma, Nick and Abby. Like wtf? We out here fighting how being gay is not a choice and here they are just doing the opposite.
Semi related note- we kinda see a policing of "acceptable" and "unacceptable" behaviors and expression when it comes to trans men and trans masc persons who choose to wear makeup. Cis men wearing make up is more acceptable (regardless of sexuality), but there are people who think trans men aren't real men if they wear make up because that proves they're lying and are women
Ooo boy, I'd love to see the look on their faces when other people point out that makeup was initially made for men when it first arose.
"Allowance vs Expression" basically. Which sucks and hell, I don't even know if it will ever stop being a problem because any try to make things better is undermined or stolen
This. I'm a closeted transmale but I've always loved to express myself in a feminine way. I'm so scared of coming out and telling/showing (some) of my family how I like to express myself because I feel like they'll tell me I'm not a "true" transman because I still like makeup and clothes for women while still wanting to go through the operations. Like they'll tell me this is all just a fetish or something.
Hmmmm... Good point, I hadn't caught that.
@@Horsaz I'm sorry but that all just sounds weird LOL.
Man I didn't realize how much I see queer media and needing to be 'respectable' and 'digestable' until now. Opened my eyes as a trans queer person! Thank you sm
Well said Snufkin
It honestly really struck me when you said "straight until proven gay". First time I heard that and god it's so true. Everytime a family member wants to tease me or ask if I have any romantic relationship with anyone it's always "oh do you have a boyfriend?" And with my dad it's "you better not be having no boyfriend" (you know how dad's are to their teenage daughters). No one ever seems to care or even think about the possibility that I like girls (I'm bisexual). My entire family still thinks I'm gonna 100% end up with a man and probably have kids. That's how normalized heterosexuality is. Most people won't even think you're gay or lesbian because they've already assumed that you heterosexual. That's why they're so surprised when they find out what your sexuality truly is. It's honestly annoying when these same people try to preach about how they're not homophobic but don't want homosexual relationships in media to be "shoved down their child's throat" but have no problem with heterosexual relationships in media and forget the possibility that their child could be gay lol. They often times even tease (and sometimes punish when it comes to girls) their child over their platonic relationships with that of the opposite gender because they assume that it has to be romantic (
I see this mentality so often when people complain about LGBT+ headcanons surrounding characters who's orientations aren't addressed in canon. They always say crap like "why do you have to make them gay" as if there was some kind of universal agreement that fictional characters are straight by default.
Ugh, I REALLY hate it when people say that, I'm guessing mainly cishet (white) straight people say things like "but they're not even gay, they never said they're gay" I'm like like : "wtf are you implying?? They never said they're straight either. STFU" 😭😭
It so sad that growing up, we all had (and I bet some people STILL -) have this mindset and misconception where if a character is dating an opposite gender, it always mean they're straight like when it never proven either, like bisexual or pansexual with preference exist too?? Also, some of the media we grew up with never had any chance to add homosexuality in anything because the time period back then was EXTREMELY homophobic and it STILL is due to some countries still not accepting it. Do they have to say they're gay or date a same sex character to be proven gay or other LGBTQ+ the creators of their stories identified them as?? It really irks me that we all grew up with heteronormative mindset and in a environment like that.
It's not that they're sure you'll do it, it's that they want you to do it. Because they want you to have what they have.
" It's honestly annoying when these same people try to preach about how they're not homophobic but don't want homosexual relationships in media to be "shoved down their child's throat" but have no problem with heterosexual relationships in media and forget the possibility that their child could be gay lol."
Once again, I have little to no understand of where you people's logic comes from. Everything is all self fabricated nonsense passed around in these stupid ass echo chambers.
No, nobody gives a rats ass about homosexual relationships in movies. I think the people you're talking about, who say how they don't like homosexuality pushed down their throat, are actually talking about the obnoxious "woke" stereotypical lgbt representation that only exists for the sake of brownie points.
Of course though, in today's era, being homophobic means not tolerating people who think their sexual orientation and gender identity is a culture and personality. If this is what you guys think homophobia means, then you can just give up on ever believing people will accept you.
Children are the product of heteronormative reproduction. It takes a MALES sperm and a WOMANS eggs to produce children. This is why heterosexuality is the standard. If two people of the same sex could conceive , then homosexuality would be the norm, but that's not the case.
i'd like to point out one thing about the quarry, from a lesbian's viewpoint!
i'm a firm believer that emma and abigail were supposed to have a romantic route but was cut (it's been confirmed much of the game's content was cut due to covid) or removed/made subtle for very obvious reasons. the first scene we get with abigail is her sketching emma and then both of them having subtle back and forth flirting. (depending on your choices) their relationship then gets overshadowed by both nick and jacob. there's other subtle hints scattered across the game that hint toward stronger feelings (too many to list: but in summary it's emma being put on the same level as nick for their importance in abigail's part in the story; her only being able to die from them; her secret sketch of emma also mentioning nick in the text. also emma being portrayed to love and cherish her more than jacob.)
i was about to say maybe it's me as a lesbian who overlooked this too much, but then i remembered the countless cishet male streamers i watched who immediately thought they'd have a romance from the start. heavy emphasis on countless. like seriously there's so many
it very much feels like they tried to make their romantic bits much more subtle that only queer audiences would fully pick up on... so that cishets could brush it off as a platonic friendship, in order to avoid backlash and publication difficulties. they did a similar thing for ryan/dylan; by making ryan uninterested in the end and being able to completely ignore dylan's romantic advances. also the truth and dare scene including an option to kiss kaitlyn, so the cishets aren't forced to see a gay kiss.
Agreed. The youtuber I watched (John Wolfe) thought that Emma and Abi were going to have a romance so he chose options that would seemingly lead to a relationship, but in the end these choices ended up in nothing.
It was super confusing to me the way that their introduction was clearly hinting at something that never developed over the course of the story, almost like it was being ignored. That makes a lot more sense knowing that some parts of the game were removed.
@@juli5945 he was one of the youtubers I was talking about! and it was very much apparent they were hinting at something romantic, especially with emma being set up to be literally jealous of nick because abi had a crush on him!
it really feels like heavy chunks of their story was removed. especially since emma's reaction to her death / emma transforming with abi is one of the most emotional scenes in the game. it felt like they were supposed to have a lot more scenes to make these two moments much more emotional
but i guess it was all removed because of covid, but also because they could work just as "best friends" which sucks a lot. love the game but i'm tired of sapphic relationships being subtle enough so cishet audiences can just brush it off as platonic
i’m a gay man and i totally agree. they definitely had some tension that was more than just gals being pals
I actually, also thought that Kaitlyn was either lesbian or asexual for quite a while, the way she shuts down Jacob's taunt by saying Ryan 'does nothing for her at all' and how she never seemed to have any interest in a relationship with any of the main cast throughout led me to believe that she was queer in some capacity but then the game kept insisting that she definitely felt something for Ryan, which I found weird because it didn't feel like there was any build up or chemistry between the two.
omg orion hi its juan
I understand the initial backlash against Q-force because the first trailer was ass. But I hated how adamant people were that the series was bad even after clarifications. Seeing the lgbtq+ community gate keep and attack their own members who created a show with the intent to embrace queerness because the series relied on stereotypes felt more homophobic then the show itself. Wether or not it’s to your liking, warding others away from watching it under the assumption it’s homophobic damages our own ability to tell stories without conforming to hetero-norms.
It was something I also recognized with Hazbin Hotel (I’m not a fan of Vivsiepop but it’s still worth noting). Do these people who accuse Angel of being problematic because he’s effeminate and a sex worker not believe gay men like that exist in real life?? So what in their eyes would make the character “proper”? In an attempt to normalize ourselves into society, we’re only ostracizing ourselves from our own community.
It's a major case of letting perfect be the enemy of good. We're so desperate for LGBT media, and "good" ones at that, that a lot of LGBT people think every piece that comes out needs to be a shining example with very little to no flaws. I always say that if straight people can have their Family Guys and Archers, then we can have our Qforces and whatnot.
Yeah honestly that show isn't really the big F here. Yeah it kind of sucks, but it at least is respectable. I can respect it for trying to be nice representation of us LGBT+ folk(me being a gay man), but not exactly being that well made.
The REAL big F here is High Guardian Spice & HOOOOOO BOY did I have a LOT of crap to say about that giant, LGBTphobic rotten toxic fume pile of garbage when it came to discussion on the Terrible TV Shows Wiki & well... let's just say the amount of awfulness & blatant disrespect the show had thrown at me was much bigger than anyone would expect, to the point that you could likely imply it being an outright scam even.
@@ExtremeWreck I haven't watched it myself so idk. Although I'm a bit tired of that shows vitriol too lol. Even if you have valid reasons for hating it, my feed has been overwhelmed with hate for the show and most of it is really just anti-sjw and weeaboo hating the fact it's an all female created western anime. If it does have problematic tropes then yikes but I'll never watch it anyways and it's just not very relevant here :p
hazbin hotel is problematic for something else... viv is shit to her workers
As someone who doesn't like Q-Force but loves the Vivzieverse, to me the difference is that Viv seems to have a clear vision of a world, a story and a concept that goes beyond "they're queer and do things". Aside from the concept of hell itself, the creative demon designs and the fun song, Angel got more development in a pilot and a song than Steve Maryweather and Twink/Bastien got in a whole show.
I was pretty curious when we found out Twink comes from the circus: I was stoked to meet quirky characters, eccentric situations and fun scenarios, as well as to see him develop from a trope into a three-dimensional character who happens to fall into a trope. But the circus thing was never used again and the character remained stock. Angel is an effeminate queer man, but he's also a sex worker in a harsh environment (and this is actually part of his arc instead of the circus thing), a loyal friend to Cherry Bomb, a victim of abuse, an opportunist and a jaded cynic who dreams and hopes for a better world.
But at least I REMEMBER something about Twink: I couldn't list you a trait of Steve Maryweather if I TRIED. He has to be the most nondescript, bland, milquetoast main character in an adult show I've ever seen.
Katie’s family being accepting is likely a huge part of why people defend the movie, because they aren’t the stereotypes either. Unfortunately, you’re right that that falls apart when viewers realize it at the end of the movie or through IMDb.
And there’s something similar with Promising Young Woman. From what I remember, for all we know, Laverne Cox is playing a cis woman
Laverne Cox is such a good example, bc I, a trans person, would actually kill for a film that features a trans person without that being the center conflict and even for trans actors to play cis roles.
But in PYW, that felt like it needed confirmation to mean something and felt like a missed opportunity
I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if the character is supposed to be trans, but there shouldn't be anything wrong with a trans actor playing a cis person. If, of course, the character is supposed to be trans but there is not even slight mention of it at all, that's not ideal.
@@annaholdennn I watched the movie, and until I saw the top comment above, I thought she was playing a cis woman.
Like the idea of "cis until proven otherwise", unfortunately, on the other hand there is the positive side that I was like "oh, that's cool, it's good that she has more role options". Now I'm confused, wasn't that the case? Did not know.
Queer asian here:
your point about queer poc hit hard. I feel like even in queer shows, the majority of these queer characters are white partially because of this stereotype stuff-- I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this correctly but with most of the gay stereotypes I can think of off the top of my head, the embodiment of that stereotype is usually seen as white. I think that queer asians especially don't get seen a lot in shows because the stereotype of an asian conflicts with the stereotype of someone who is queer often-- since queer people are stereotyped to be highly sexual, sassy, etc while asian people are stereotyped to be quieter, nerdy, or submissive in extreme cases of stereotyping. I'm not sure if this is coherent because I'm running on 2 hours of sleep rn but that's my take on it as a queer asian sjgjgjkkjgs
a really interesting perspective may i suggest a queer book with main asian characters written by an asain author?
@@picturethis4903 YES PLEASE
Thai bl is often hit or a very hard miss but have you tried watching them? While it's clear that most of them rely on old as time tropes and cliches and can be cheesy at points, as a queer black person with barely any representation anywhere, I find myself gravitating to sifting through all the mess to find heartfelt shows. 2gether the series is the second one I watched and while it isn't perfect it was a great start. Also Bad Buddy is another good show. Gaya sa Pelikula (Filipino not Thai) really does address the hard issues of internalized homophobia and fear even despite seemingly supportive allies (this show broke my heart a couple times). I know they are not necessarily mainstream but I feel you could get something out of them. Srry for the long comment lol
@@user-lq8gn7cm3m Tbh I'm looking more for gl at this point, I feel like in asia in general bl has gotten a bit more common but good gl is hard to find 😭
@@biggeelafan42069 that's literally so true! Sometimes I feel disappointed in myself for not watching enough gl content but the truth is there isn't much. Or much that doesn't sexualize it.
I guess I'm just going to be the odd duck here. Mitchell vs the Machines worked for me as a grey ace aromantic queer because it had a gay person going on an adventure without romance being a main part of the plot. I get that having more overt queer romantic relationships and hookups in mainstream media equals representation for a lot of LGBTQAI+ people. But for those like me looking for queer rep without those as mainstays and without the weird pure nonsexual deity thing some media including anime like to do for asexual rep. A queer person being acknowledged as queer and then having the focus on them going on an adventure and reconnecting with their family works wonders.
I'm an aspec person in the same boat. The not hooking up while being queer is what makes that movie relatable to me. It's sometimes bizarre to me when something that reflects my queer experience in media is said to be a compromise on queerness for other people, It makes me wonder if our existence is supposed to be seen as eternally liminal where our identity is just a stage between "real" identities.
Same here. And tbh, I thought the narrative focusing on Katy and her conflicting relationship with her dad and dealing with a robot apocalypse brought on by Evil Siri was unique. Having an LGBT protag who's story isn't romance heavy, and more on building her bond with her dad was nice.
I know a lot of ppl want romantic Queer stories without minor(or easy to edit out) moments in media, but stories like Mitchell's vs. The Machines is also nice, too.
@@chibicelesti4859 Gonna be honest, I LITERALLY didn't know she was queer until I saw it on Reddit (a post talking about her rainbow pin). Like Readus mentioned, it didn't need to be overt but it was hardly acknowledged even in a natural manner like her helping her little brother talk to girls coming from a place of personal experience.
Like come on, I love Mitchell's vs the Machines but not gonna lie finding out Katy was queer not from watching the movie itself but finding out after the fact definitely didn't feel great.
@@chibicelesti4859 Agreed. Thank you for responding. I hope to see more queer nonromantic rep as well.
I daresay that the narrow focus on visible, undeniable romance is the direct result of conditioning from the standard set by media, directly as a result of heteronormativity.
But you're right that we need to get comfortable about the idea that eventually not every queer romance is going to be paint by numbers obvious and that's fine.
This is excellent analysis
Holy shit, one of my favorite video essayists is here
👀💖
Omg it’s Jessie gender
Yay, Jessie.
omgggg
So so so good!!! Thank you for talking about The Quarry! Loved playing that game and so great to hear someone talk about it complexly under this lens! I was pretty disappointed how just about all the relationships don't get an "ending" based on your decisions-- some indication that we succeeded or failed in getting the characters together (if we wanted to). I know they end up having way more important things going on by the end of the night but.... ya girl wants some shipping resolution. 😂 Ryan's and Dylan's queerness would still likely be very easy to dodge in that case but stilllll.
I knew kids like Ryan and Dylan in high school. I wish we had a more satisfying ending where we could talk about it more. I honestly hated that we have OOOH HOSS DELGADO! Teenager (I'm sorry this reference is pretty dated and specific) who "distracts" Ryan from Kaitlynn and/or Dylan and thrusts him into being SUDDENLY straight. it was... so very, very frustrating. Also why the heck does Kaitlynn have to be the choice that reminds us he's bi and even then she's not that fleshed out of a character? So much failed there to make some great queer characters and tell some amazing stories.
The game's epilogue was overall horrendous indeed. I am okay with the podcast, but I would be way more satisfied with the podcast PLUS mopre detailed fates of teh characters.
@@goncalocarneiro3043 oh definitely, it was a good game but the endings were a bit meh. Then the podcast that went on for soooo long was just... 🙄
@@goncalocarneiro3043 The game was just.. trash. Stuff just happens and doesn't make sense- 'Until Dawn' was just such a great game, just the downgrade to The Quarry is something else...
Idk why they didn't have the white wolf spotted on a camera near the lodge so Ryan and Laura go back there. Then if you make the right choices Emma, Jacob, and nick could go back to the lodge too
I find it funny how Stranger Things was mentioned. Not only did Will get the shaft, Robin's romance is shoved to the side for maybe 15 minutes total in 2 of 9 episodes. Meanwhile, Hopper & Joyce and Steve & Nancy get the whole season to pine over each other, up to the point where it drives half of the plotlines.
It was super disappointing to see the lack of queer storylines when we're already 4 seasons in with lots of straight characters and relationships, especially because it looked like these plotlines were actually going somewhere (and of course they didn't).
I mean realistically speaking robin wont find someone, shes in a small town in Hawkins and in the closet. Everyone is rightfully in the closet which is why when
*s4 spoilers ahead*
they showed that one girl at the gun shop and robin was going to approach, it hurt extra hard seeing that she was in fact in a relationship with a guy. It sucks but it’s a pretty accurate tale that many of us can relate to especially back in the day. Should robin be given more screen time with it? Yeah that would be nice but she’s also a side character she’s not a lead like hopper or Joyce and Steve. It’s more of an issue of the cast being way too big because there’s a lot of issues with the new season cause there’s too many people to keep track really. But I get it and if they had enough time to throw in Steve and Nancy giving eachother the crazy eyes then they could prioritize that for some more representation.
Side note: will isn’t confirmed gay which is why I didn’t mention it, because as it stands it’s just a theory that fans have, though i think it would make sense, I don’t think that’s the case here unfortunately.
Will most definitely isn't my favorite character (that would of course be Lucas since he's the coolest guy in the group) but I still related a lot to him.
@@jessicac8090 will has been confirmed gay by the writers, actors and the duffer brothers themselves.
@@sash_iii do you have any sources? Because I’ve heard the opposite from the actor himself.
I can't afford new games right now, so I've been watching the Scary Game Squad playthrough of The Quarry as my way of engaging with the game, and it always bothers me how dismissive Jesse is of the obvious queer relationhip between Dylan and Ryan. If a male and female character were interacting the way those two guys interacted he would immediately call it out as romantic, but as soon as it's two guys it's "that's what you got out that?" and "I don't know if it was all that".
I love SGS but i have to see someone else play the game first because they talk so much (which I like after knowing the game)and I can't get immersed.
Have you ever watched gab smolders? She's a great gaming channel, you should check her playthrough.
if you watch jay from the kubz scouts channel play the game, he is straight (to my knowledge) and had Ryan kiss Dylan too:)
@@cupidsidiot3110 jay is performative asf. he'll pick anything thats gay to make himself look good to his gen z audience, he doesnt actually give a shit. hes just like jacksepticeye
Amazing video! Thanks so much for the Dead End shoutout! I think it's telling that both Dead End and Heartstopper were webcomics first (a medium that has always been decades ahead of mainstream programming when it comes to representation) and that Alice and I were in charge of their adaptations. We never had to fight the higher ups about the rep, or sneak any of it in, because we'd already proved how popular it can be if its made for the right audience.
I loooove Katy Mitchell. Felt so happy to see her. And I'll always be salty we got more romance content from her brother than her.
In a sad way, the heteronormativity affecting the plot made the movie a perfect fit for my family. We celebrate being weird and quirky, but were still raised homophobic. Her queerness being pushed aside like one of her background personality traits while her siblings straight relationships are always front and center was/is my relationship with my family.
It sucks that it's like that though. Just like how my family doesn't like my queerness, they would hate the movie if kate were pining for Jade throughout.
But the movie is ABOUT family acceptance. It would be a better movie if her queerness was more plot relevant.
I love Jacksepticeye, but I had the same reaction to watching him play that part of the game. I was like, “SEAN. THEY ARE QUEER. PLEASE.”
i've observed how he only rly recognizes and rly gets down with f/f ships like alphys and undyne from undertale, and chloe and max from life is strange.
I appreciate Q-Force for its existing representation and queer focused story, but I also feel that it's evident of a similar but equally as unfavourable trend: Boiling down the entire queer experience to just "the gays(tm)".
Someone using they/them pronouns is mentioned by one of the characters, and trans individuals are alluded to, but none of them are seen, and every use of the word "Queer" or "Pride" exclusively represents cis-gays only.
This kind of trans and non-binary erasure has the potential to, intentional or otherwise, feed into the assimilationist trend of gay being the new normal, while throwing trans people under the bus as "groomers", despite the fact that those same gay assimilationists will also be thrown under the bus should reactionaries get their way.
Of course, I'm not suggesting every story needs to be about trans and NB people, just as not every story needs to be about gays. But we trans and NB folks have just as much right to see ourselves represented on screen as any other cis queer person. Trans representation is coming in leaps and bounds, but still largely confined to the traditional gender binary.
I would love to see more queer creators push for non-binary characters in shows like Dead End: Paranormal Park and High Guardian Spice, because those shows already do so much for normalising positive representation of binary trans folks, I trust them to write us NBs with the same depth and respect as binary trans people.
Finally a good faith criticism of the show.
Well said.
For a while I thought that Stat was non-binary, so when it turned out she used only she/her I was disappointed. It would have been great if they had a larger variety of queerness on display. Especially since a pronoun change for Stat wouldn’t have impacted the romantic relationships we got to see or the influence on the plot. No one caring what’s in Stat’s pants, just if the code can be cracked in time, would have worked well with the show too.
@@alyssafitzgerald83 Stat is a binary trans woman voiced by a binary trans women. Most characters in the show are voiced by someone who share large parts of their identity with their characters.
Stat is a massive stereotype for trans women. She just isnt the one that cis people have of us. I think the fact that it isn't explicitly stated in universe makes people confused but its canon. Stat is a trans woman.
It isnt mentioned directly in the show (Largely because its a lot harder to bring up than sexuality) but Stat is a trans woman voiced by a trans comedian. The jokes she often makes, the media she consumes and her general attitude are in community stereotype of trans women. "Stat doesn't believe in swimming" and her explictly calling the cool ladies "cis women" are the biggest in universe allusions to the intention. It is canon. Just not explicitly stated, because like other characters she is a stereotype. It's obvious shes trans to people who regularly frequent spaces with lots of trans women. Its also alluded to in the programming episode with Twink pretending to be the other big stereotype.
Shes also voiced by a prominent trans comedian
One of the main characters is actually a trans woman, but it's not made clear in the text at all, like it was something they felt they had to hide. Maybe if we get a season two it will be made clearer.
As a trans man I have been through an arc of trying to one of the good ones. That killed my chest to the point that it won't get better. So yeah please do get it in your head that you are who you are and that's all right.
I know this is an older comment and I appreciate the vulnerability and honesty in your message. I only hope that you're incorrect about *one* thing; 'never'.
Speaking as someone who has faced (and caused) similar harm upon myself in the past, I'm not the type to pretend that we can throw glitter and a band-aid over these and they disappear - it's a lovely thought, but it's foolish. (And a potentially damaging expectation to maintain.)
However, scars *do* fade. We may not be the person we were before we obtained them, or able to walk the same path we had planned before them, but we can still shape ourselves alongside them as instead of being defined by them.
Your comment is a perfect example of this. You used your experience to speak to others to aid them in avoiding what you endured. Without it, your very brief statement wouldn't have been so incredibly moving and profound.
This is why I say I hope your evaluation of "never" is a momentary feeling of short-sightedness to self forgiveness. You seem to have a great deal of care, empathy, and compassion - when you're ready, I hope you'll set some of that aside for the person you were and who he is now.
I know that was a long ramble, but I felt the need to say I see you and genuinely wish good things for you. I hope that's the case.
Dead end park just rocks. First couple of episodes are relatively grounded, but after the big reveal about the ghost celebrity, there is a lot of cool worldbuilding. And, like Disenchantment, you go to hell with an elevator. That should be a running trope.
i watched dead end park and it was so good tbh
I literally just finished the finale 10 minutes ago. I love it SO MUCH
I too watched and loved Dead End Park. Hope we get many more seasons of it. Would love to learn more about Death Slide, mainly because I too would have loved being called that when I was their age.
@@Lycandros death Slide was great. Also, does anyone else think she has a crush on Norma?
@@mujiescomedy279 Definitly got crush vibes.
I think I'm straight but when I was playing I told my fiance "I don't care who dies, but Dillon and Ryan have to make it, I need them to be happy after this."
I've been routing for them all along.
I want my full season 3 of Owl House.....This video just made it even more obvious why Disney isn't giving it one while Amphibia got 3 full seasons.
I can understand the subtle queer character moments are fine once in while. It’s ok to have stories of queer romance that is headlining.
I think that’s why I really liked our flag means death cuz it didn’t feel like it was smoke-screening queer representation.
Heterosexual romance are allowed to be shown both overtly & subtlety.
Dope video. Figuring your ish out is rough especially as black man. (I got a long way to go)
This is absolutely spot on. The "stereotype" point I've seen brought up so commonly with queer characters who dare to stray outside the heteronormativity "norm" and, worse, that dare to be the same as cishets re: onscreen sexuality, not to onscreen orientation. A sexual joke from a gay man, for example, is often seen as a "hypersexual stereotype" rather than just as "normal" as a straight guy making one. The Q-Force backlash in particular... I remember going "so... literally nothing is 'too much' about this" but it didn't stop people acting like it was homophobia incarnate.
As a trans gay dude I've even seen this bleeding into the way lgbt+ people treat each other. I've been on the end of being painted as hypersexual for some very stupid, not even that saucy jokes. Far from avoiding stereotypes, a lot of young lgbt+ people seem to have embraced a lot of the homophobic stereotypes against gay/bi men in particular lately. I feel like this is closely linked to the content of this video - to fit queerness into heteronormativity, it needs to be sanitised to the point where it's unequal to cishetrosexuality.
I remember when the trailer for Q Force came out, people kept using Captain Holt from B99 as an example of "one of the good ones" that "should have" been used as an inspiration even though he was created by straight people and played by a straight man, which was in stark contrast with the identities of the production crew of Q Force. Not only that but Michael Schur was a showrunner for B99, and an executive producer for Q Force, so you would think it would've dawned on the mob that maybe the "respectability" would've been present. But no, it just led to a bunch of queer staff being brigaded.
I love Law and Order SVU, don't judge me!
But Raul Esparza, who plays Rafael Barba in the show, is not only the longest running ADA in the entire series, but was a beloved character.
A lot of people shipped him with Olivia Benson (me included), but one the reason Raul left the show was because he wanted to pursue a bisexual storyline (he himself is bisexual).
He fought really hard to get the storyline in the show, but NBC wasn't having it.
And I don't know why (it feels kind of petty), but when bringing him in as guest character, they basically destroyed his character and made him a antagonist.
It was garbage and I hated NBC for it
i remember this and i am forever angry and upset, his character was truly good hearted. i think i liked his character the most, but never really thought him and benson were a good fit.
Yet another reason to hate NBC(alongside them discontinuing Saturday Morning cartoons around 1992 for TNBC).
Why would anyone judge you for liking Law & Order SVU?
I'm happy that you talked about the Quarry and how subtlety in media could result in people taking away what they want, rather than what the text brings to the table. I'm also very happy that you're not outright cancelling Jesse Cox because I know that he's done a lot of work on his own to learn about queer culture and be a better ally on his part to his fanbase. He does his best, but there's still a lot that he doesn't quite catch, and same with the rest of SGS. Don't worry, we're watching and gently course correcting when something crops up.
I've been watching his channel for a decade now. He's a very intelligent and compassionate person, and has in my experience accepted criticism and education gracefully. I was definitely disappointed with his read of Dylan and Ryan in The Quarry, but I know that for the vast majority of the time his heart is in the right place.
Also, he has produced 4 video games with many queer romances/relationships in them! Monster Prom, Monster Camp, Max Gentleman: Sexy Business, and (soon to be released) Monster Roadtrip. MG:SB (the outwardly horniest and adult of his games) even has trans-inclusive character creation options when it comes to body types, genitalia, etc.. I definitely count him as an ally, even if he's not 100% perfect.
This is why I praise the game ‘Hades’ to high Hell. In many games, queerness is optional. It can be hidden and overlooked completely if you don’t go looking for it.
In Hades, the main protagonist, Zagreus: Son of Hades and Prince of the Underworld, is crushing on two different men.
One is his mentor, the famously straight-washed Achilles and the other, a romance option, is Thanatos: Death Incarnate. And there is NOTHING the player can do about it.
The romantic interest is even mention by and discussed with other characters in the game. It is unavoidable.
Ultimately the choice to pursue a relationship with Thanatos or the female love interests, Megaera, lies with the player but the protagonist’ romantic feelings remain all the same.
The path to the true cannon ending runs through bringing the romantic relationships of both male and female love interests to fruition.
In order to experience the game in full, the player must experience the openly queer protagonist’s queerness in full.
Beautiful.
We need more games like that. We're always a second option, or not one at all. Queerness is as common as heterosexuality, we deserve to have media that represents that.
@@skeletoninyourbody9896 No, queerness is not anywhere near as common as heterosexuality. You need to pop your bubble, stop listening to social media and step outside.
@@heyesphilip what are you basing that on ? what are you including in your definition of "queer" ? what's your threshold for "anywhere near" ? what data are you using ? how are you interpreting the data in question ?
@@heyesphilip Um, by outside, do you mean the place where people are wildly homophobic still so people live thier entire lives not telling anyone they are queer? I think you're the one who needs to pop your bubble.
It is avoidable tho yet requires the best RNG and skill to do. You "beat the game on your first run" and then stop playing. I know to get the best end you need to go through like 20 cycles. Even I was like eff that I like the game but not that much. The rep for all the characters are cute.
lovely vid! thank you for making this. It really irked me how Q Force trailer got so much negative attention when it came out. it was clearly bad marketing, something that's not the creator team's fault. people didn't even care to look into the creator team's background. Also the fact that the characters were over-the-top seemed fun to me and I actually rather like the show. it felt like a fun call-back to the 90's and early 00's queer media that was very camp and loud
Yeah I loved the show too! I was having fun watching each episode!
I'm so mad this show was cancelled, BTW.
Honestly yeah I’m sad it got cancelled though I’m not surprised
Almost felt intentionally bad.
Tysm for what you said abt Mitchell’s VS machines. I literally felt so alone in feeling how I felt. It was so uncomfortable the way they handed the little brother, just to have the queer character shoved to the end of the movie despite being the main character. I felt crazy for being so uncomfortable and upset about “first gay main character in kids animation” being yet another blink and you miss it only for everyone to praise it until the cows came how. Ugh. Anyways. Just. This video is a masterpiece and Tysm for making it!
An oft overlooked example of ace representation is Doomguy. Yes, that Doomguy. According to a 1996 interview with John Carmack, "Canonically speaking, Doomguy is a virgin. He has never had sex, nor do we have any interest in exploring that area in the future. Doomguy, as far as myself and Id Software are concerned, will always be a virgin who doesn't even know what sex is."
It makes sense. Every moment having sex is time wasted that could be better spent killing demons with a shotgun.
I wonder if he could be considered aro too?
@@CatChaos369
Doom guy is officially my aro/ace icon🤙 -Havoc🏴☠️💚
I just wanna say, that yes, in the end the representation that matters most is the ones created by ourselves.
However is so disheartening to see our own community turn against creators because they dared to have a story that diverge from what is deemed acceptable for representation of queerness. That is mainly Western-White POV. (like all that fuss with the Boyfriends webtoon, that happend a while ago)
THE PEOPLE WHO GOT MAD ABOUT THE BOYFRIENDS REPRESENTATION HAD ME SO MAD. That was like such good representation for me personally because I couldn't see myself in a poly relationship until I read the web toon. I don't often see poly relationships like that(if at all) and it was just a nice simple story that showcased a relationship that would probably be ideal for me. And people got upset like why 😭
@@Molly-iw1rc I think most people were mad (A) because of all those annoying ads and the (no offense) bad voice acting, and (2) because it seemed like one of the comics that girls who fetishize gay people and gay relationships would make
A lot of people seemed to like the poly storyline cause it’s rare, but the way the comic went about the queer aspect is what angered people
I haven’t read the comic but in the comments of a video about the ads said that’s why a lot of people hate it
Often think it makes a big difference who is making the queer animation. People often point out that it's mostly wlw esp in the big boom in representation in kids media, it seems like wlw is seen as a lot more inherently non threatening and there isn't much challenging that. With the mlm relationships it seems they're almost entirely cinnamon roll couples in LTRs and almost always married. Sugar lost the rest of Steven universe's run in order to have the wedding.
Now of course many lgbtqia people get married and aspire to marriage. It's been held over heads for a long time and fought for, and required for various financial benefits.
But it seems like once they ditched the catty male gay best friend, it's largely been abandoned and only really hinted at. its mostly marriage, and very soft slow burn relationships.
Of course it isn't just heteronormativity but a reaction to gay people being cast as promiscuous or predatory. But it's very important to try to combat that. There is also a trope of gay people being rejected by their family or having unhappy endings so there ends up with a demand for almost elementary school levels of happiness and non-conflict to make up of it.
For many liberals, the representation they want is "normality"
And in kids media, perhaps seeing those stories can be pretty important. When it comes to adults queer folk (as opposed to lgbt) can't much expect to be mainstream. Queerness is deviancy from the norm. A lot of people use queer as a catch-all term rather than a political term but queerness as an alternative to monogamous vanilla nuclear heterosexuality is rarely on screen without being villainised or at best seen as "edgy".
It's the kind of mentality that leads to "no kink at pride" discourse. Of course a lot of young lgbtqia people will go through phases around sex, porn etc. Many know they're gay before they're comfortable with sex. Many of them will see things they haven't been exposed to much as "extreme" and be scared of being compared to those things, but overall those responses need to be resisted. I'm just not sure that the alternative is going to come through capitalist media representation, but from real people being represented. Perhaps when alternatives to capitalism are represented that'd be possible.
Am gonna watch queerforce now though so thanks!
Another person blaming capitalism, look up the CCP censorship and ultimate banning of a show due to the non romantic or non sexual relationship of two male characters that have chemistry.
@@science_bear what ??? im sorry how is that not at all related to capitalism
@@actualgoblin They’re anti capitalist. Same as the USSR was. Their goal is to undermine and overthrow capitalist nations.
@@actualgoblin Hell anti capitalists think of homosexuality as bourgeoisie and counter revolutionary.
THANK YOU!!! As someone who was forced by their parents even worse than Katy in so many aspects, I could relate to her story in that way. But when it came to the wlw representation, when the movie ended, if it wasn't for social media, I WOULDN'T even know it was there! It was so "blink-and-you-miss-it"!! That I was also left with a sour taste after (in the representation aspect). Much love from Latin America!
Huh I took the hints of the “queerness” of the characters in The Quarry to be a nod towards such queer references found in the 80s slasher films the game was inspired by. But you opened my eyes to their problems and how such representation could have been handled a lot better.
Excellent essay, by the way
Yet that's when I think YES it could be better yet would it make sense? Especially if you're messing up which causes people to die or get maimed. The romance isn't or should be "right". They have to survive now, which is why as somebody that's ace dislike when romance overtakes dire aspects of the plot. Like all the werewolves around, or there's a time limit and or somebody just died.
so speaking of heteronormativity: i will never let my parents live down the fact that in OFMD, they did not realize that ed & stede were heading for a romance until LITERALLY the beach scene. yes, they still had no idea even after episode 7. (they did at least pick up on stede's queerness, but they assumed ed was straight, which is absolutely wild to me.)
I feel lucky that the first and only playthrough of The Quarry I've seen hit all the "visible" queer options for Ryan and Dylan. I didn't even know they were so buried under choices, and before I knew that I was stoked to have /that/ kind of rep: where the audience doesn't have to be beaten over the head with the fact that these characters are queer, none of their peers make a big deal about it in a negative light, two guys can have blatant feelings for each other on screen just like a hetero couple can.
That being said, your breakdown of it really made me realize I was watching through my own queer lense. It's definitely subtler than I read it and....it doesn't mean anything in the big picture. You're right on every point.
I'm glad somebody enjoyed Q Force. Not because I did. God no, It never meshed with the personal idea of my queerness as a bisexual man or my taste in media. I'm still waiting for that unapologetically hyper masculine, sincere depiction of queerness in something like Warhammer 40k, schlocky action movies, and fantasy novels that straight people get. So it pleases me that somebody out there is getting something out of the table scraps.
I'm working on it (I actually am)! lol
@@Readus101 Sweet, looking forward to it
JoJo Bizarre adventures?
@@Dave102693 That show is painfully heterosexual despite the flamboyancy of its main leads. The only canonically queer characters until maybe Jolyne (assuming that's canon) are cartoonishly evil monsters of the night that end the story dead.
@@ravenfrancis1476 Dio?
As someone white/straight I'm not gonna say that these 50 minutes completely changed me.. but they certainly guided me towards a path of better understanding people and their needs when it comes to representation and I thank you for that
This feels like a queerbaiting topic without using the term "queerbaiting". I think you are right about the larger point of all of this though, it's not equal representation and it is basically trying to appeal to homophobes. I get that things don't always progress rapidly, I mean, I really get that... but I think the argument is right in that all representation isn't necessarily good enough representation, but even more than that... you can't go chasing the approval of "society", you just have to change society and not let it dictate your life. I remember when I was a teen I thought it was bad they only really showed flamboyant gays as LGBTQ representation, mostly for the reason was that bullies and homophobes would use that as the reason to dislike gays, but the truth is people like that also exist and there is nothing wrong with them. You can be black and love watermelon and fried chicken, a majority of people in general like those things. The problem are the bullies, the homophobes, and the people that think they can stereotype people.
This would have been so useful when I was a problematic closeted bi egg. So well done! And ouch that strict top was equally painful to hear thanks! lol
I just learned that fucked up connection to watermelons! Is that something well know within your sphere of the black community or are we all learning this again together?
Whenever talking about heteronormativity (& cisnormativity), I always have to mention Ikenfell. Everybody play Ikenfell right now. It's a turn-based RPG about a girl whose sister goes to a magic school but has gone missing, and she must explore the school & meet her sister's friends, teachers, & enemies to figure out what happened to her. your party consists of queer & trans/nonbinary people, INCLUDING a character who uses neopronouns!!!!!! (im really excited about zir because i also use neopronouns & ive never seen rep for myself before.) it also has groundbreaking accessibility options that you can check for yourself. 💗
What platforms??
@@karenjfrazier07 switch, xbox, playstation, PC, mac. so basically everything! ❤️
@@nerdpiggy awesome thanks!
Gotta share my favorite queer rep in games. "I was a teenage exocolinist" has a cannon trans girl, bi women, polyamorous/aromantic/bi man, mlm, a demi/demi enby, etc. I just love how the game handles their characters. I haven't seen all the interactions (because the game has like literally 1000) but like, no other game has made me as gitty about like having sol and their potential partner discuss their feelings. Or in another instance I was playing as an AFAB character and being able to go shirtless to hang out with some guys enjoying the heat without it being sexual in any way🥰
Also being able to have drunk sleepovers or in another instance get tats with your bestie ❤
@@nerdpiggy
Big disclaimer though I'd check the CW list. The game can get pretty heavy at times which I think elevates the game in my taste. Mixing the lowest lows and highest highs in media just really hits the sweet spot for me.
For queer families being represented in children's media, my argument towards to bigots is that it's scientifically proven to be beneficial for children to see their family represented in the media they consume, and no matter how much they don't want to believe it, queer families and family dynamics do exist and the children of those families need to see themselves represented.
As much as they bicker and argue and fight, they never have anything to say about the fact that not seeing themselves in the media they consume growing up is, in fact, a detriment to them. They're just like "it'll turn them gay" no, it won't. It will make them feel seen and be happy that their family dynamic is being shown. It's deeper than just "it'll turn them gay"
My parents struggled to find media for me as an adopted child. It helped me so much just to hear the words "xyz is adopted!" And discussed. Seeing Disney characters having an adopted family situation or non traditional families that were unlike my own helped me so much. Children need to see queer parents. THEY NEED TO SEE IT. I am only okay because I saw situations that mirrored mine. THIS IS THE ONLY REASON I'M OKAY.
@@jamie1602 exactly!! If the Christian families are so appalled by children seeing their families in media, then just show your kids your family in media, don't traumatize other children just because you don't want your kids to see it
Exactly and I hate the conservative/bigoted view that being lgbtq+ is a choice and that this stuff in the media will influence their children.
you forget that they dont wanna listen to science. they just want to be bigoted.
"bitch that's called conformity and i don't do that"
i am going to quote this a lot
Watching different people play the Quarry was a lot of fun because without fail all of the straight men I watched play it immediately rejected the 'flirt' option verbally (saying "nah" or something like that) and/or the kiss scene at the bonfire. I had been watching some videos about queer rep and media and I was really surprised at Ryan's character because to me (a black bisexual enby) he was so clearly queer, but so many people are unable to see that because of their heteronormative understandings of the world. Ryan's (and Dylan's) queerness is just present enough that anyone who knows what to look for can see it, but so easy to write off as "just bros" behavior by people who cannot see beyond heterosexuality.
Excellent analysis in the video!
Don't be normal. Cheers to that!
I hope you enjoyed Dead End, I really loved it with all my heart and it felt so, /so/ lovely to see Barney, who may as well be my non-goth counterpart. He exists, he loves, his queerness is IMPORTANT TO THE STORY and MULTIPLE episode plots...
I love him so much, I love how messy Dead End feels, I love how bright and /honest/ it feels. And I love seeing somebody like me in CHILDRENS' media, without having to pretend that the mc is trans.
the thing that annoys me about the prevailing dominance of heteronormativity, is how it affects how I read the world, even in opposition to it, I am forced to define myself by it, it is tiresome especially when aspects of one's identity or rather being don't fit into these norms and need to constantly be asserted (in the sense of correcting assumptions, mainly). And most egregiously of all there are people out there that will use these norms to justify their hate, for which they have no substantial reasoning. Companies like Disney exploit queer creator whilst censoring them. Even though I personally think that the tonally more complex queer relationship media is a better representation and educator for young children than what is shown in straight media all the time, in regards to what these relationships mean and how they form (should form), they often also allow for easy censorship by being less explicit!
WAIT on stereotypes. People who judge other people for aligning with predetermined stereotypes are literally so bad for any group.
Just as a black person shouldn't be bullied for liking watermelon, A gay man shouldn't be bullied for being feminine, A queer character shouldn't be hated for being extremely outwardly queer. Like these are things queer people actually hate on other queer people for and it's literally confirming the stereotype as negative, when it's not inherently negative. Those are just things that society decided were bad or that society decided to use to "normalize" the identities. Just because someone likes fun pride themed stuff doesn't mean they are hurting the community, just because someone is the definition of a stereotype doesn't mean they are the issue.
Also I did the same thing with qforce because everyone was complaining about it so I assumed it was a cash grab, but now I have to watch it.
Great work on the video! Katie was a really strong example. I'd missed the marketing around the film and you're right about them completely obscuring her queerness in the film itself. Even if I may have noticed it while watching, I didn't retain any memory of that aspect of her character. Just because we're lacking in visible, queer characters doesn't mean we shouldn't also demand that they be fully-realized. We shouldn't be satisfied by crumbs of representation that were carefully calculated and focus-tested to be "unobtrusive" to straight audiences.
FUCKING THANK YOU! I felt weird how you can either kiss the male character who you obviously been flirting with and Brenda song character. Even on walk throughs people were confused if the queer characters liked each other. The straight couples don’t have to pick their partners they’re just put together and it really rubbed me the wrong way.
It's a shame websites like Tapa's and Webtoons force heavy censoring of queer content in comparison to straight content, as this is where we can support a lot of newer creators.
I find a lot of this rings so true!
One of the things about bisexuality in choose-your-own path media, especially video games, is that it was groundbreaking and fundamental in terms of getting queer representation into those mediums, but over time, as the ability to 'choose your romance options' continues, it sometimes feels less like genuine representation and more of a tool for the player, an immersive technique to have the romantic option of their choosing, without any representation suggesting the character themselves is bi/queer beyond that in another playthrough, they can romance another gender. I want to see queer characters get to represent themselves and their romantic preferences outside of player choices.
Also, about the heteronormative romance in Mitchell v. The Machines, I will comment that it is so wonderful to get a more thoughtful depiction of romance with a disabled character- Often, disability is seen as this 'sexless' overlay that instantly renders people unable to have sex/romance, linking back to ableist notions of restricting disabled people from 'procreating' lest they transfer their 'corrupted' genes. Blegh. So it's nice to see. BUT!- I agree that it creates a pretty obvious discrepancy between Katie and her brother in terms of what 'gets' to be shown.
“Disney channel star survivor”, definitely a way of putting it
The novel series I'm writing has a similar paradigm to She-Ra, where everyone can be assumed to be queer unless otherwise stated. As most of the cast are shapeshifters, there's already a built in trans allegory. The main protagonist is aroace agender like myself. I've even gone so far as to write the story in a poetic stream of consciousness style, such that I never once refer to the protagonist's gender or pronouns. This is the kind of normalization I'm striving for, barely even noticeable unless you're looking for it.
This sounds really interesting. Could you tell me how I could find it if you finish?
@@rain_ypjm At this point I haven't fully decided how to promote it, though I will probably go the traditional publishing route, which is more difficult but far less expensive than self-publishing.
I'm so glad this video was made, it explains heteronormativity and effects on media. I know that you've already talked about Sing 2 concerning Johnny, but straight people's view on inexplicitly queer characters that you mentioned at 19:46 reminded me of how people view Jerry from Sing 2.
I personally believe that he's gay since he told Mr. Crystal that he loves him at the end of the movie, but I've seen a lot of discourse on his sexuality. I was very surprised to know that people don't see his words as a confession but rather an example of his "dedication/platonic admiration for his boss." I feel like people trying to explain it as a sign of him being loyal to his boss is way more of a stretch than seeing him as gay. I'm a major fan of Sing 2 and a gay person myself, so not only did I see some of myself in Jerry and his actions, but it felt nice to see a queer character in a movie that I love.
There is a book called Sing 2: The Junior Novelization made by someone not affiliated with Illumination or the movie itself, and it's basically just the whole book rewritten into a book. I was very infuriated to learn that the author cut out Jerry's words out of the book entirely. He never even says "I love you," and it just ends off at him claiming Mr. Crystal is innocent with the narration claiming it was just Jerry "being loyal to his boss until the bitter end." Watching your video helped me realize that not only was this probably because the author believed children shouldn't be subjected to a possibly queer character, but also that the author most likely did this purposefully so that Jerry would seem more "normal" and not possibly show any signs of same sex attraction.
I know that it might be a little bit silly to write paragraphs on a possibly gay cat from a kid's movie but like I said, it's one of my favorite movies and being able to see a character that's queer like me is nice. Plus it's nice to tell others about that stupid book that I hate so much.
I find it…interesting that flamboyance is synonymous with queerness when heterosexuality has historically been the very definition of flamboyant in its rampant heteronormativity. I’m subscribed! I loved this!
I don't know if anyone has suggested this to you but Owl House is a good one for a more normalized version of a queer relationship dynamic in a kids cartoon (shocked it came out of Disney), I honestly think it does it better than Steven Universe because it's EXPLICIT and not couched in a "well they're aliens" dynamic. (No hate for Steven Universe of course, still love that show too)
To be fair, when Steven Universe was airing, they couldn't really be that explicit about it because of the network at the time (yet they got away with A Looooot)
That's totally fair, it's hard to sneak past the censors for sure, especially in a world where reactionary movements are always trying to shut down anything that isn't 'the norm'. I was just saying that it was nice to see a show that didn't have to sneak around (as far as I can tell) and just came out and presented us with a gay relationship with no attempt at 'plausible deniability' for conservative parents.
Im furious with disney for cutting owl house short
I'm very tired of "author/writer confirms x on Twitter." I'm ready to move to the point where it's all in the source material.
I’m so glad I clicked on this video, you provided an academic and through approach that showed a similar perspective to another conversation I was having with my friends. We were talking about intersectionality, and while only a couple of us are queer, it’s a majority black/African group, which gave us a lot to talk about in terms of how minorities and their experiences are often overlooked when trying to make a better life for yourself or go into a vastly different group. Among a world which prides itself on the normal, white, cishet family, which in of itself is so rooted in white supremacy, it feels like you’re walking on eggshells whenever you try and be yourself. White supremacy is really at the heart of many of these issues (racism, misogyny, homo/transphobia), which is plain to see in the way women of color are treated, for example how many are accused of secretly being transgender. I like how you ended with a heartwarming conclusion, representation is nothing without us telling our own stories. The “one of the good ones” character that is applauded for “breaking stereotypes” almost always comes from a writer who is not of that demographic, whether it be because they don’t know how to write an “accurate” portrayal of that experience so they default to their own or think it’s embarrassing to write a supposed stereotype. I loved this video and am definitely subscribed to you know.
Along with Hetero-Normativity is Hetero-Centrality. Even in stories where there is a Queer lead I'll see that the focus will be on straight people.
One example of something that was a failed attempt, "Partners" starring Michael Urie and David Krumholtz was supposed to be about 2 best friends who set up a company together, and the stress their romantic partners gave to the friendship. Sounds easy.
One couple was opposite-sex and one-couple was same-sex. The central relationship of the show should have been the business/friendship with the romantic relationships as sides and the antagonism between the spouses as the pushing force for the drama. Tension between friends and romantic partners is a common trope. Two romantic partners who CAN'T STAND each other would be comic gold.
What happened; the main relationship was the straight romantic relationship. The friendship/business relationship was sidelined. The gay relationship... they were borderline sociopaths. The limited number of episodes I watched had all the problems come from the gay guy with the straight woman going a good passive wife putting up with her husband's horrible friend. They managed to make Brandon Routh despicable!
There are so many more shows/movies where coming out is depicted as a problem for Straight People not Queer People. Or a queer person exists to show how accepting the straight person is. Or Queer people perform queerness without having relationships (To Wong Foo, Thanks for Nothing!)
Thank goodness, books are so much better at inclusion than tv shows or movies.
I love your channel because it speaks from a perspective of facts and logic, while still allowing to show your frustration, instead of just pointing fingers and calling stuff homophobic without giving reason why, which ends up giving us a bad name and makes homophobia not be taken seriously
This was a magnificent essay, I loved q force and similarity didn’t watch it until much later after the release. The trailer for it was abismal! It didn’t do the show justice, Which made me wonder who was in charge of it…and for sure none of the creative team had control of the production of the trailer or it’s framing, which I think proves ur point on the heteronormative construct media uses today! Thoroughly enjoyed this video, look forward to more!!!
It might be just me, but I was 100% aware that Katie Mitchell had a crush on Jade from the very beginning. It was very obvious and very cute. (Also, Jade is black, so bonus points!)
Thank you for sharing this. Honestly one of the most thought provoking Essays I have seen today. Great call out on the MCU selling point, and PERFECT closing statement.
This was a really good video!
The section on The Quarry reminded me of a video I watched about how a lot of queer content in games is hidden behind options that you can ignore if you want, which fits right in line with what you were saying. I also liked that you pushed back against the idea of respectable/semi-hidden gays bc IMO that can be just as harmful as the super stereotypical representation. We really just need more and more honest rep all around.
I skipped to the Q Force part (Its late) and jumped back. God this is a beautiful analysis and incredibly easy to digest. It makes me appreciate representation more and helos explain why some of it irks me. Im so glad i stumbled on this and its good to see Q Force getting praise.
It made me consider how the show kind of shows heteronormativity as a prison. Buck and Steve both conform to the standards set by society until Steve deviates and is sent to Q Force while Buck is an emotionally stunted mess whos most meaningful conversations were in response to someone messing with him. Theres also the guy that considers Steve his best friend. Its kind great how the show portrays queerness as liberating.
With regards to heteronormativity and media literacy. I forget what essay it was in but I remember reading about the way in which story structure often pairs itself with a straight relationship to give itself a form of closure. The writer uses the progression, tension in and eventual resolution of the relationship to signal the tension in the story and the resolution to show that it's 'over'. Hence the presence of het romance/sexuality even in unrelated media (adventure stories, superhero stories, children's media) and the tendency to break couples up for sequels so they can generate that sense of narrative closure again through a cheap association.
Obviously media literacy in this regard is not neutral but I think it's also interesting to see how works like steven universe or even Legend of Korra respond to and subvert parts of this, by substituting the straight romance at the end point for a queer one or by dropping the sense of conclusion from the central straight romance and linking the flow of tension instead to the main character's mental health and sense of agency.
With that all said this just highlights the really pernicious grip that monogamous hetero romance has over media in a way I think Mitchell's V the Machines really exemplifies (though I didn't notice it before you pointed it out) using Aaron and Abi's relationship as this sort of conclusionary feature twice (both in the body of the movie and in the post-credits scene where the two are talking about dinosaurs in his room).
Exactly how I feel about Q-Force. I saw one gay may saying it's just stupid and basically homophopic stereotypes ,but I loved how they basically said "ey fuk that and all of you, we're okay to exist like this!"
Great video, really helps contexualize my thoughts when it comes to the queer experience in media.
I would also highly recommend the video How Bisexuality Changed Video Games by verilybitchie. As that video helps showcases how a characters bisexuality is an opt in trait for queer audiences to dig into, while being safely ignored and sold to a wider heteronormative market place. Because you excellently touched that on that aspect briefly in the intro, I felt like mentioning it! Anyway, great vid!
was literally about to go rewatch that video after finishing this one!! it’s such a good point when discussing queer representation. that’s also one of the good things about the quarry, at least ryan was *canonically* bisexual. unlike in the life is strange series where the protagonists can basically just be straight if you wanted them to be. even so, that information is only found out through dialogue options. bi representation in media sure does have a long way to go
The sigh at the beginning is so relatable
This is absolutely outstanding!! Such a thorough examination of such an important topic.
I am glad F.D. Signifier shouted out your channel :)
yaknow when we got introduced to abby in the quarry, she was drawing emma and i legit thought that she was gonna be the ~token queer~ in the game, not saying that you can't draw your best friend but i just got that vibe you know, so imagine my surprise when her whole weird arc with nick happened lmao
i find it infuriating that we didn't get a close up shot for rylan's kiss when we got one for kaitlyn and ryan. it's also very weird that they then tried to push this weird thing between ryan and laura when they went on their own journey despite laura already having a bf, and it feels like yet another hetero option for ryan, muddling his already "vague" bisexuality in the game. and when it's pretty obvious that dylan definitely has a THING thing for ryan, dylan looked visibly upset if ryan chose to kiss kaitlyn yet kaitlyn could care less if he kissed dylan, and dylan had the cutest reaction when he sat back down after kissing ryan lol
I had not seen the ads pushed about Kattie being a Lesbian. I myself identify as under the Queer and LGBTQAI+ umbrella. I watched The Mitchells VS The Machines twice and did not realise Kattie was a Lesbian. Not until you explicitly said it and pointed it out in this video did I realise it.
I wanted to share this to emphasis how subtle her representation was.
As an aspiring writer who has been homeschooled and has had to deal with religious prejudice about LGBTQ+, ive never had much exposure to minorities….. I recently discovered that im bi and ive been wanting to add LGBTQ+ And ethnically diverse characters to my stories but want to do it right. This video was very informative and i hope to represent people accordingly!
I don't know if anyone will read this comment and it's a big observation, but in The Quarry I thought (as a lesbian) that Abby was queer when she was first introduced, and didn't pick up on Dylan or Ryan's relationship until the 'flirt' option came up. I saw a girl with bob-cut hair dyed red at the tips, wearing leggings under her shorts and doc martains with a moth and moon t-shirt on. I saw her sketching her female roommate who shows up behind her and teases her. Again, if nothing else, this goes to show how queer people are CONSTANTLY looking for the smallest signs in the subbest of subtext trying desperately to confirm if a character is queer.
You have gained a new subscriber! This was a really great analysis! I loved the shoutouts to Heartstopper and Dead End: Paranormal Park, especially you pointing out that both of them began as web-based independent comics that only recently got picked up by Netflix. And I think a lot of what makes these two adaptations in particular so great is that their original creators were heavily involved and therefore able to keep their original queer-as-hell vision intact - thank goodness!
This was really well done! With all the pushback in the US right now, I am glad to see people talking about how making our queerness less visible and more reflective of heteronormativity is not the way we fit in the world and not the future we want.
This video also feels really approachable for people new to or outside of the lgbtqia+ community without decentering the positive values, righteous indignation, frustration, and calls to action of the queer community.
ever since I discovered your channel you have given me more incite on queerness (white and pan, btw) and racial inequalities. And I just want to say thank you for that. keep up the great content, looking forward to your next vid
Love and appreciate your videos!
This video put so much of my pent-up feelings into words and I appreciate that so much. Especially as a person who has trouble explaining my experiences.
I live in the Bible belt and MAN it's hell going undercover as straight. One of my coworkers, who ADORES me but has no clue im gay, straight up said to my face that "God gave us covid as punishment for 'tolerating the gays'" and then she proceeded to call us queers 'monsters'. Nothing ever came of my report. Shit like that is a special kind of pain. :/
Such a wonderful video! I'm so glad it got recommended to me. The points you made about heteronormativity as a social construct and how non-queer people can miss the subtle nuances between Dylan's and Ryan's relationship have been very eye opening for me.
I've actually watched the entire video(and gameplay) that jacksepticeye posted when you used his video as reference at 20:18 and it made me realize how his reaction was influenced both by how the game presented the other two heterosexual relationships and the attractions the other characters had and by, most probably, his initial response of not seeking out and considering a gay/bisexual attraction/relationship going on.
I can't wait to see more stuff that you do! Keep up the amazing work!
jack has less trouble with recognizing and actively will support an f/f ship tho. like max and chloe from life is strange, and alphys and undyne undertale. those are more explicit, but i still think he just favors f/f over m/m
he also actively avoided a mlm relationship option in life is strange 2, so when the quarry came along and he did the same thing it confirmed the pattern for me
This was a great analysis! I've been thinking about how this kind of thing manifests in the Sims but you express the issue really well
Thank you for making this video :D
I personally enjoyed Michaels and the Machines because I am a queer person who was just about to move to a uni in a different country when the film came out and had some issues with my dad. I put the movie on to watch it with my parents a week before I left and talked a bit about how relatable her queerness is to me. They didn't see her queerness before I pointed it out, but I have generally tried to showcase queer character and relationships in the media we consume together.
It was a fun movie with a queer character, but it would have been great to have some more visibility.
As someone who loves binging these kinds of queer essays, yours hit the nail on the fricking head. It was explicit and it was easy to digest, it was fricking perfect. The frustration that comes with being a minority with horrible representation again and again is beyond limitless. It’s crazy.
Loved this!! I’m glad someone also picked up and recognized how two different people can play the same game and either recognize gayness immediately or completely ignore it until it’s spelled out for them.
I had been avoiding Q-force for the same reason, but I'll go give it a shot now. All of your video essays are amazing and this makes so much sense!
Regarding the part near the end about Netflix, Netflix has been cancelling a TON of animated projects recently, including Q-Force I'm pretty sure. It's just another big corporation, was useful for a little while
Maybe it's because of me being more active in the webcomic circles lately, but this video made me think of the whole rage around the webtoon Boyfriends. Now, I *personally* don't like it. It's not really my kind of comic, for I lean more towards fantasy stories than slice of life and I like to save the tooth rotting fluff for the fanfiction. But I see a lot, *a lot* of hate towards the comic, even from queer readers, for it being too stereotypical and even accusing it of being fetishizing.
The writer of the comic is a gay transmasc (i don't remember if he actually identifies as a man) that lives in a queerphobic country and decided to make a self indulgent comic to express his fantasies of having boyfriends that ressonated enough with people that it's one of webtoons most read comics.
To justify hating on it, I've seen people misgendering the author, calling him a fujoshi/fudanshi (because a gay person writing and likkng gay stories is a bad thing I guess???), bringing up fanart he did of Idols when he was a minor himself... All to justify mocking a fluffy slice of comic that is nothing but a queer fantasy because the ads were a bit cringe, I guess. I'm sorry, but I simply cannot see how this isn't extremely queerphobic. It's all "own voices" until we dare to be self indulgent, I guess.
(And, honestly?? The ads are more on Webtoon than anything. We all should know by now they don't always make the best decisions on how to advertise their stories.)
Also in the comics and literature realm, I see a lot, A LOT of people completely vilify any form of queer media that even dares to mention sex (let alone the ones that are actually geared towards queer adults and is more explicit in it's portrayals). Heartstopper is a lovely comic and series, and I am really happy that young queer people will get to watch such a sweet romance, but HS fans have become so rabid in how the hold it as "the one true way" of telling queer stories instead of those "nasty, hypersexual" stories that "do nothing but fetishize us" that people actually started to include "Heartoppers dni" in their twitter profile. And there are so many other examples of the way our own community treats our own stories, I could (AND HAVE BEFORE) rant about it for hours.
So my point is that this video slaps, you spoke nothing but the fucking truth, and I was shocked when you explained how heteronormativity comes from white supremacy - not for i did not know that, but because I went "OH SHIT HE WENT THERE >:OO"
10/10 video, subscribed and sent to my writing mehtir (because we always spend half of our meetings complaining about how queer people treat the stories written by ourselves)
I feel so bad for the author of Boyfriends. So many people painting it as something evil and malicious that hurts the mlm and poly community, when it's just as "evil" as x reader fluff fanfiction. I feel like if I were a character in one of these stories, people would claim I'm a hypersexualized stereotype too 💔.
Great analysis!! Several points were made and you hit it right on the nail with each one!
Oh my god what a great video. I think you’ve perfectly put into words the frustration that a lot of us are feeling when it comes to the lacking representation we receive in all sorts of media. It’s so annoying that we are fed breadcrumbs of queer rep through a hetero filter and then we’re told that we should be happy that we get any at all.
This video was so well done and said, instant sub. Also I'm glad I've actually seen all these references you're talking about.
I love X-Men 2: X-Men United, but the scene between Nightcrawler and Mystique lives rent free in my head. I wish those two got more scenes together. 😢Nevermind never seeing Mystique's relationship with Destiny.
Thanks for the heads up for Dead End, I was looking for some trans kids media for my kid.
It makes me very happy hearing the word heteroromantic so much, clearly stating that it is both heteroromantic and heterosexual is so ace/aro postive
Great analysis! I'm tired of mainstream lgbt media catering to straight people
U use so many big words and it is making me so much more literate, epic essay
Thanks for what you do!
Excellent vid! Especially on the Q-Force part. I feel like those criticism can be applied to the webcomic Boyfriend, which currently went through tons of backlash solely because... it's cringe? Basically the same "problem" with Q-Force, being stereotypical n stuff despite that lots of the criticism boils down to "ugh we don't like seeing woobified gay people it's unrealistic". What's wrong with cutesy cheesy dumb fluff? Granted, Boyfriend doesn't have the deeper social commentary like you described with Q-Force, but the constant hatred towards something "stereotypically gay" is really weird.
One thing that made the Boyfriend hatred a tad more disturbing is that it was made by an Indonesian trans man. It's clear that the comic was made as an escapism from this country's constant homophobia (as an Indonesian queer I can vouch that every single mainstream queer discussion is bombarded with homophobic dipshits), yet people seems to left that context completely and chose to bash Boyfriend in the most unproductive, homophobic way possible. Even as a joke, don't you think it's cruel to shit on a queer work by someone from a homophobic country solely because it's not your cup of tea? Not to mention that there are a disturbing amount of TERFs crawling around the Boyfriend hatedom 😬
I like Mitchell's vs the machines. I'm ace and I didn't realize she was lesbian until the moment the mom said something. Even then, I wondered if it was a joke. There definitely should have been more on her sexuality in the movie.