i am amazed by how this young and obviously very gifted scholar navigates subjects that are extremely hard to convey without making a huge word salad and eventually losing the audience. i was able to follow through without getting lost.
Had to take a pause halfway into this podcast and absorb the extraordinary framework of a narrative Federico is building up. An absolutely fascinating 'world-ing' experience!
C'è stato un ultimo genio in Italia, tra gli anni 90 e l'inizio degli anni 2000. Era un uomo del sud Italia, di enorme talento ed intuizione. Fu lui il primo a portare in scena, in teatro, a livello internazionale, tutto ciò di cui ha parlato questo ragazzo, che sicuramente conosce la persona di cui sto parlando. Il suo nome, era molto conosciuto, ha lavorato con personaggi di alto calibro come Pasolini e Deleuze. Fu quello che ebbe l'intuizione di riferire se stessi come al passato, di creare il proprio mondo slegato dalle gigantesche rovine delle strutture, e di contemplare, attraverso i buchi neri del linguaggio, l'improponibilitá della volontà di potenza come forza dell'esistenza stessa. Quest'uomo nel nostro paese, era conosciuto come C.B. ma aveva un nome. Il suo nome, era Carmelo Bene. Ed in questo giovane genio italiano, ho visto tutta la sua eredità.
closure: This sum up of 54...the idea of conflict. I think that this is a part of the process laid out in all the mythological accounts of the "end of time" ....the apocolypse.... things become more polarized... wars occur. it's pretty much a given. However, out of the tension of the poles (thesis and anti-thesis) comes the synthesis.... the trancendent perspective that in part reconciles the two polar positions but more importantly renders them moot because we move to a new perspective completely. This is what Carl Jung referred to as the Trancendent Function...but also it's something found in many thought systems including Platonism and a religious system called the "Law of Three" ... it's in Kabblah and other mystical systems.
Very very interesting... would like to see Frederico patch into that group of thinkers that i feel are forging ahead to this "new world".... including Bernardo Kastrup, Daniel Schmatchenberger, John Vervaeke, Iain McGuilchrist... Zak Stein... .these are, along with Frederico, to me, the inheritors of this Post Post modern emergent world.. and i think Federico has important things to add to this conversation. I love the idea of "re-worlding".... and this is has really fundamental linkages to another area of personal interest of mine, museology,... the French have a nice term "mettre en valeur" which gets at shifting of the phenomenological experience of an object (and it's cultural content) via specific physical treatments that help the gaze attend in a different way (to say it like McGuilchrist might say it). Duchamps urinal is perhaps a striking example. Put something on in a "sacred" space with a certain kind of light and it becomes something different phenomenologically...something symbolic rather than utilitarian. So this idea that you can reworld is something that museum curators regularly do in their work. Regarding the phenomenology of time (mn 16-17)..] It is felt as a "wall" or as Terrence McKenna put it "the approach of The Eschaton" It is a time of great chaos and apprehension as our categories are breaking down and blurring together and our assumptions no longer work in the same way. Thus, it is very difficult to think beyond that "wall"... we stand at a threshold but peer into the void. This is when it helps to understand mythology and history. It is the time when the artists come to fore and the religous...because it is a time of faith out of necessity, right? (Cue the Qnon conspiracy). However if we understand the larger arc of history, we can have reasonable faith that the apocalypse is not the end but only the "unveiling" of a new beginning of a new world. Very exciting. mn 22: Really makes me think about that movie "Arrival"....how the alien language was written in a circle... reflecting a different conception of time in the future. mn 35... About our creative latitude when we leave legacy for the post future: Rather than lie it is the purview of the "normative entrepreneur" to convey how norms should be perpetuated ....and the artist too of course. But we have a responsibility to draw conclusions about what went right and wrong...which isn't a lie but it isn't a faithful representation of the majority of the time...only the closing act perhaps. Also, what's also coming to mind here is this idea of the mystic Gurdieff ... he thought alot of encoding key cultural truths into dances and music because he thought of those things as a superior means of conveying important truths over time. He claimed that he learned this from a group called the Sarmoung a group of Tibetan monks somewhere in Tibet that referred to this sort of activity "The gathering of the honey"... i guess they were beekeepers. Gather the truth, transform it into durable cultural productions and encapsulate it for the future generations. Of course one could say that mythology does this because the myths that get kept and repeated are the ones that retain their immediacy and resonance...so mythology is subject to a sort of Darwinian process over long spans of time that ensures an aspect of antifragility.
Another thing that i thought about during this talk: What if we could educate an AI discretely in each of these past worlds... wouldn't it be fascinating to converse with someone from another "time".... if we could educate an AI in all say the Sumarian cuniform texts... or from the Middle Ages? . then we could therectically converse with a being from that time, no? Would it open up new insights to converse or would we be limited by our own linguistic constructs? Would that way of worlding come across in the AI's language?
sorry.... i know you don't want to hear any more, but this is three years old so probably nobody cares anymore about what i write here. But this idea of Perennial thought...ie Aldous Huxley..and Ken wilbur..etc. Really what seems to be emerging is that Carl Jung's conception of religion... which has been grossly misunderstood as an effort to create new religion was in fact the effort to explain why these mystical traditions are indeed so similar. Jung finally concluded more or less that religion is a deep seated psychological complex that manifests differently in various traditions but really is mirroring the evolution of the psyche both at the level of the individual and the collective. So this was his great realization in Answer to Job which i think will be the text where that very clearly pronounced and demonstrated that our conception of "God" is actually a reflection of our deeper self...and the evolution of God is reallly an evolution in our "Self"..ie what we call the God Image. This was further elaborated by other Jungian thinkers such as Edward Edinger. What God really is ...who knows.... but that's now what religion is about...it's really about the evolution of what our deeper self. What God really is is beyond the dark glass....we cannot see it.
i am amazed by how this young and obviously very gifted scholar navigates subjects that are extremely hard to convey without making a huge word salad and eventually losing the audience. i was able to follow through without getting lost.
Had to take a pause halfway into this podcast and absorb the extraordinary framework of a narrative Federico is building up.
An absolutely fascinating 'world-ing' experience!
much love and respect two both of you from istanbul. amazing conversation.
I liked the plant!
wonderful.
C'è stato un ultimo genio in Italia, tra gli anni 90 e l'inizio degli anni 2000.
Era un uomo del sud Italia, di enorme talento ed intuizione.
Fu lui il primo a portare in scena, in teatro, a livello internazionale, tutto ciò di cui ha parlato questo ragazzo, che sicuramente conosce la persona di cui sto parlando.
Il suo nome, era molto conosciuto, ha lavorato con personaggi di alto calibro come Pasolini e Deleuze.
Fu quello che ebbe l'intuizione di riferire se stessi come al passato,
di creare il proprio mondo slegato dalle gigantesche rovine delle strutture,
e di contemplare, attraverso i buchi neri del linguaggio, l'improponibilitá della volontà di potenza come forza dell'esistenza stessa.
Quest'uomo nel nostro paese, era conosciuto come C.B. ma aveva un nome.
Il suo nome, era Carmelo Bene.
Ed in questo giovane genio italiano, ho visto tutta la sua eredità.
closure: This sum up of 54...the idea of conflict. I think that this is a part of the process laid out in all the mythological accounts of the "end of time" ....the apocolypse.... things become more polarized... wars occur. it's pretty much a given. However, out of the tension of the poles (thesis and anti-thesis) comes the synthesis.... the trancendent perspective that in part reconciles the two polar positions but more importantly renders them moot because we move to a new perspective completely. This is what Carl Jung referred to as the Trancendent Function...but also it's something found in many thought systems including Platonism and a religious system called the "Law of Three" ... it's in Kabblah and other mystical systems.
Very very interesting... would like to see Frederico patch into that group of thinkers that i feel are forging ahead to this "new world".... including Bernardo Kastrup, Daniel Schmatchenberger, John Vervaeke, Iain McGuilchrist... Zak Stein... .these are, along with Frederico, to me, the inheritors of this Post Post modern emergent world.. and i think Federico has important things to add to this conversation.
I love the idea of "re-worlding".... and this is has really fundamental linkages to another area of personal interest of mine, museology,... the French have a nice term "mettre en valeur" which gets at shifting of the phenomenological experience of an object (and it's cultural content) via specific physical treatments that help the gaze attend in a different way (to say it like McGuilchrist might say it). Duchamps urinal is perhaps a striking example. Put something on in a "sacred" space with a certain kind of light and it becomes something different phenomenologically...something symbolic rather than utilitarian. So this idea that you can reworld is something that museum curators regularly do in their work.
Regarding the phenomenology of time (mn 16-17)..] It is felt as a "wall" or as Terrence McKenna put it "the approach of The Eschaton" It is a time of great chaos and apprehension as our categories are breaking down and blurring together and our assumptions no longer work in the same way. Thus, it is very difficult to think beyond that "wall"... we stand at a threshold but peer into the void. This is when it helps to understand mythology and history. It is the time when the artists come to fore and the religous...because it is a time of faith out of necessity, right? (Cue the Qnon conspiracy). However if we understand the larger arc of history, we can have reasonable faith that the apocalypse is not the end but only the "unveiling" of a new beginning of a new world. Very exciting.
mn 22: Really makes me think about that movie "Arrival"....how the alien language was written in a circle... reflecting a different conception of time in the future.
mn 35... About our creative latitude when we leave legacy for the post future: Rather than lie it is the purview of the "normative entrepreneur" to convey how norms should be perpetuated ....and the artist too of course. But we have a responsibility to draw conclusions about what went right and wrong...which isn't a lie but it isn't a faithful representation of the majority of the time...only the closing act perhaps. Also, what's also coming to mind here is this idea of the mystic Gurdieff ... he thought alot of encoding key cultural truths into dances and music because he thought of those things as a superior means of conveying important truths over time. He claimed that he learned this from a group called the Sarmoung a group of Tibetan monks somewhere in Tibet that referred to this sort of activity "The gathering of the honey"... i guess they were beekeepers. Gather the truth, transform it into durable cultural productions and encapsulate it for the future generations. Of course one could say that mythology does this because the myths that get kept and repeated are the ones that retain their immediacy and resonance...so mythology is subject to a sort of Darwinian process over long spans of time that ensures an aspect of antifragility.
Illuminante.
Another thing that i thought about during this talk: What if we could educate an AI discretely in each of these past worlds... wouldn't it be fascinating to converse with someone from another "time".... if we could educate an AI in all say the Sumarian cuniform texts... or from the Middle Ages? . then we could therectically converse with a being from that time, no? Would it open up new insights to converse or would we be limited by our own linguistic constructs? Would that way of worlding come across in the AI's language?
Nature composts and regrows from fire and food. Humanity is not immune to nature's cycle no matter how clever the invention.
sorry.... i know you don't want to hear any more, but this is three years old so probably nobody cares anymore about what i write here. But this idea of Perennial thought...ie Aldous Huxley..and Ken wilbur..etc. Really what seems to be emerging is that Carl Jung's conception of religion... which has been grossly misunderstood as an effort to create new religion was in fact the effort to explain why these mystical traditions are indeed so similar. Jung finally concluded more or less that religion is a deep seated psychological complex that manifests differently in various traditions but really is mirroring the evolution of the psyche both at the level of the individual and the collective. So this was his great realization in Answer to Job which i think will be the text where that very clearly pronounced and demonstrated that our conception of "God" is actually a reflection of our deeper self...and the evolution of God is reallly an evolution in our "Self"..ie what we call the God Image. This was further elaborated by other Jungian thinkers such as Edward Edinger. What God really is ...who knows.... but that's now what religion is about...it's really about the evolution of what our deeper self. What God really is is beyond the dark glass....we cannot see it.
Well, someone does care.
You put it well. I agree with what you wrote there.