Man I really appreciate you making these points. Dealing with constant ganks is so difficult that it's honestly unthinkable for anyone to invade with an un-optimized build. That being said, Saint, the lore actually supports becoming an invader-only! That's what becoming a Recusant is - you stop your progress to Elden Lord and just invade around instead. Same with becoming a Bloody Finger - you'll invade and avoid progressing until the coming of the Mohgwyn Dynasty (i.e., forever).
I mean, the lore also supports Recusants and Bloody Fingers attacking each other on sight, on account of their being in opposing factions, but the community seems to have decided that that's a no-no.
@@KarasuInaiga I wouldn't say that Recusants and Bloody Fingers are opposing factions. They both have the same goals of hunting Tarnished who are trying to become Elden Lord. They could oppose each other for personal reasons - especially since Bloody Fingers canonically can range from honorable dynast warriors like Ansbach to insane murderers like Okina.
@emaciatedFlower I would do it the other way honestly. Invading low level vs over leveled phantoms you do no damage. At least at meta and over you can hurt phantoms.
@saintriot I'd say once you reach above level 40 is when ash spam and magic is used more often like you do no damage at low level, but so does usually the host and summons the harder thing to deal with is status effects like bleed
@@saintriotIn my experience the "just started the game" invasions at levels 10 to 20 are the most fun ones (and the best ones to learn2invade) because the downscaling really curbs the over levelled phantoms and everybody is low enough level that it plays more like DS3's more "grounded" melee focused combat rather than ER's on-brand lasers everywhere.
I’ve been doing this lately and it feels like a more complete gameplay loop. Spend the runes you get on consumables you wouldn’t normally use in pve and use those in pvp to get rune arc to use in pve. Truly as intended
Yeah the bridge troll invader thing was never intended. I call them bridge trolls because they just sit at one level forever and attack from under their bridge. It's wild to me that in DS3, the "invasion only" playstyle became so insanely prevalent.
@@monsieurdorgat6864the watering down of covenants and streamlining of the game made it so. I was hoping elden ring would go back to ds1 days but boy was I wrong
@@monsieurdorgat6864 Because Covenants like the Aldritch Faithful existed, who are literally "bridge trolls" the Covenant who stay at a specific level range in order to maximize Invasion uptime in the area they need to "defend" which is Anor Londo, a mid level zone. And technically the Watchdogs of Farron are even worse because they occupy a low level zone, but they were never really as popular for some reason, you'd think Twinks would love the Watchdogs but the Covenant felt practically ignored with longer queue times even at the height of the game's popularity.
@@ch33zyburrito36 How would watering down covenants increase invasion-only playstyles? These seem like separate issues. And yeah Fromsoftware doubles down on what sells. DS3 watered down covenants, made the gameplay fast/spammy, and nerfed invaders to the ground. It sold super well, so Fromsoftware took all those things and went even harder for Elden Ring.
@@michaelbowman6684 Darkroot Forest Hunters also existed, but DS1 didn't have nearly this phenomenon of people who literally stopped playing the main game to only do invasions, refusing to engage in any other mode of multiplayer. I think the increase in the number of bridge trolls is based on other factors, IMO streaming was a big part of it. Otzdarva was the last major streamer who mixed different types of multiplayer into their gameplay. He quit with DS3.
It's funny that you're totally right about the intended reason, but then most of us just played Demons at half health anyway to stop the world getting too far black.
also very based summon in that one invasion. our job as cooperators is to get the host through the video game at any cost, and putting one's own life on the line is the ESSENCE of heroism.
Great video, a lot of good points too. I feel like people purposely choose not to interact with the connection, but invasions/coop were made to be interlinked with the solo stuff. I always interact with stuff summon signs if I get the chance and leave taunters tongue on if possible so that invaders can actually play the game (when I’m not invading hosts).
Not exactly an intended way to invade but what I really like doing is to make a new character with a friend and take turns invading each other for a given area while levelling up, kinda like the opposite of co-oping. Tons of fun.
Nerdy tangent: Ember'd in DS3 is similar to Demon Souls with body form. It's all in the phrasing. They treat the -30% HP as your default state. WOW does the same thing with the rested XP bonus. They say you're "rested" with it instead of saying your normal default is "tired" without it and players respond better to it.
Not really the same when the first ring you can get in the game is cling ring halving hp loss in soul form. Tells players straight up you are supposed to have more than half hp at least
15:40 this is how I play with my wife. If she's out of potions or near a boss gate and someone invades at a bad time I go 1v1 them while she runs for safety or a better area. THEN I catch up to her if I haven't already won the duel.
WL+11 also invades down hosts with Patches Spear +7. Crossing into RL36 / RL+8 starts matching with the very popular RL60/+12 meta. Essentially crab shack duelists that like to prey on Varre's quest invaders - as those clueless players typically have the mentioned Rogier's/BKH +8. Igon's Greatbow was a real gift to Hero strength builds, lowering the bar on required dex. "As intended" invasions is how I approached launch, but stuck with base RL/+0 so I could collect and template out builds later. Unfortunately the big password pools immediately polluted invasions with OLPs, even if they weren't THAT overleveled, yet.
You know what felt odd to me. Why did people treat the DS3 Ember system differently than the DeS Soul/Body system. They are the same thing, but one is seen as a debuff while the other is seen as a buff. What?
Okay tough guy killing someone with a back step backstab missed animation is a new one for me. 6:37 Also side note does it seem like a lot more people have DLC equipment at low level than in DS3?
i think theres an item duping/dropping community for this game on Reddit. could also be given by a friend. a buddy of mine gave me a fire knight helm before i'd even gotten to altus plateau lol
I unsubscribed from everything Elden Ring until I had time to play the DLC. So I've been away since release. Now that I've finished most of it I'm back on the train. I have to say (and I stress that this is a compliment of the highest degree), your stream-of-consciousness rambling feels like home to me. Please never change a single thing.
We believe it was shown that the upgrade level on a weapon is in fact, factored in when invading. Which makes sense considering the scaling variance with ERs panoply.
ive done that a lot back in ds3, but elden ring is just not the same to me, bonfire duelists, ganks TT off, everyone spaming L2, status effects with no way to deal, really insufferable stuff
i would have though that the beast claw was meant to be similar to the weapon from bloodborne that you have to go through iirc loran chalice to get, you know the one that transforms into a wolf hand
Im surprised you dont like the fire knight greatsword. It's basically just the Lothric Knight Greatsword but for fire damage instead of lightning. Edit: lol
It completely power creeps all other greatsword except for very niche builds. Which is the same that happened to the claymore, the Katar, greyolls roar, etc
Funny I hurt my hand and hadn’t played in 9mos and then started the DLC. Totally thought that’s how it worked and started farming Rune Arc’s like a goofus
Twinks in low level and initial area aren't what the game intended. Play the game with basic weapons, skills, and even 1-2 slots only for talismans. You're tryharding.
15:30 I do this all the time because I love 1v1s, and I also love to troll hosts and invaders. In the DLC, there's a catacomb with an elevator that goes so far down that it's impossible to hit the person standing on the button.😂
I hope the creators see the seamless co-op mod etc. i only ever played DS3 and i honestly missed the invasions in that game. You'll literally get invaded every game more than once without having to be in a "certain boss area"
Have it writ upon thy grave: Guy who casts bubbles as a frog guy and says “verticality”.
Man I really appreciate you making these points. Dealing with constant ganks is so difficult that it's honestly unthinkable for anyone to invade with an un-optimized build.
That being said, Saint, the lore actually supports becoming an invader-only! That's what becoming a Recusant is - you stop your progress to Elden Lord and just invade around instead. Same with becoming a Bloody Finger - you'll invade and avoid progressing until the coming of the Mohgwyn Dynasty (i.e., forever).
I mean, the lore also supports Recusants and Bloody Fingers attacking each other on sight, on account of their being in opposing factions, but the community seems to have decided that that's a no-no.
@@KarasuInaigathe enemy of your enemy is your friend after all
@@KarasuInaiga idk, most of my co-invaders attack me on sight so that still kinda checks out
@@KarasuInaiga I wouldn't say that Recusants and Bloody Fingers are opposing factions. They both have the same goals of hunting Tarnished who are trying to become Elden Lord.
They could oppose each other for personal reasons - especially since Bloody Fingers canonically can range from honorable dynast warriors like Ansbach to insane murderers like Okina.
to be honest saint does not really have an optimized build lol the armor hes rocking is terrible
For new invaders:
Level - Somber/Regular
20 - 1/3
30 - 2/5
40 - 3/7
50 - 4/10
60 - 5/12
70 - 6/15
80 - 7/17
90 - 8/20
95 - 9/22
125- 10/25
138-
150-
165-
180-
200-
Never start invading at level 125 it's horrid best to start as low as you can to learn pvp
@emaciatedFlower I would do it the other way honestly. Invading low level vs over leveled phantoms you do no damage. At least at meta and over you can hurt phantoms.
@saintriot I'd say once you reach above level 40 is when ash spam and magic is used more often like you do no damage at low level, but so does usually the host and summons the harder thing to deal with is status effects like bleed
@@saintriotIn my experience the "just started the game" invasions at levels 10 to 20 are the most fun ones (and the best ones to learn2invade) because the downscaling really curbs the over levelled phantoms and everybody is low enough level that it plays more like DS3's more "grounded" melee focused combat rather than ER's on-brand lasers everywhere.
I’ve been doing this lately and it feels like a more complete gameplay loop. Spend the runes you get on consumables you wouldn’t normally use in pve and use those in pvp to get rune arc to use in pve. Truly as intended
Yeah the bridge troll invader thing was never intended. I call them bridge trolls because they just sit at one level forever and attack from under their bridge. It's wild to me that in DS3, the "invasion only" playstyle became so insanely prevalent.
@@monsieurdorgat6864the watering down of covenants and streamlining of the game made it so. I was hoping elden ring would go back to ds1 days but boy was I wrong
@@monsieurdorgat6864 Because Covenants like the Aldritch Faithful existed, who are literally "bridge trolls" the Covenant who stay at a specific level range in order to maximize Invasion uptime in the area they need to "defend" which is Anor Londo, a mid level zone. And technically the Watchdogs of Farron are even worse because they occupy a low level zone, but they were never really as popular for some reason, you'd think Twinks would love the Watchdogs but the Covenant felt practically ignored with longer queue times even at the height of the game's popularity.
@@ch33zyburrito36 How would watering down covenants increase invasion-only playstyles? These seem like separate issues.
And yeah Fromsoftware doubles down on what sells. DS3 watered down covenants, made the gameplay fast/spammy, and nerfed invaders to the ground. It sold super well, so Fromsoftware took all those things and went even harder for Elden Ring.
@@michaelbowman6684 Darkroot Forest Hunters also existed, but DS1 didn't have nearly this phenomenon of people who literally stopped playing the main game to only do invasions, refusing to engage in any other mode of multiplayer.
I think the increase in the number of bridge trolls is based on other factors, IMO streaming was a big part of it. Otzdarva was the last major streamer who mixed different types of multiplayer into their gameplay. He quit with DS3.
10:08 17:31 Look Gary, there I am! A Mr. Kill invader with a Lore Name!
John "Mr Kill" Lorename
Why'd you gotta die Miluda ;(
The need to do an invasion to get a rune arc is almost like a level up from pvp only run.
I rly wish rune arcs werent disabled in pvp
Or coop or you can be a hunter
@SoI_Badguy i mean technically one is for pvp... which makes me wish they had covenants for invasions like they used to
@@MrLogicallyrandomelden ring blues should be moundmakers
@jackmurphy4825 it would have been something, at least. I don't even think there's a lore explanation for blues.
It's funny that you're totally right about the intended reason, but then most of us just played Demons at half health anyway to stop the world getting too far black.
God bless Cling Ring
beast claw is just for Daddy
I feel like cold infusion is the raw infusion of Elden ring at low levels
also very based summon in that one invasion. our job as cooperators is to get the host through the video game at any cost, and putting one's own life on the line is the ESSENCE of heroism.
Saint Riot? Isn't he that guy that's way cooler than most of the rest of SoulsTube and personally knows Dungeon Master?
Great video, a lot of good points too. I feel like people purposely choose not to interact with the connection, but invasions/coop were made to be interlinked with the solo stuff. I always interact with stuff summon signs if I get the chance and leave taunters tongue on if possible so that invaders can actually play the game (when I’m not invading hosts).
Not exactly an intended way to invade but what I really like doing is to make a new character with a friend and take turns invading each other for a given area while levelling up, kinda like the opposite of co-oping. Tons of fun.
how does he connect to you though lol most likely hes gonna connect to randoms unless he puts a dueling sign down
There's not so many decent invaders out there on PC right now, most of the community play using seamless co-op :(
@@josecarlossanchezmendez639 just join on seamless? whats the problem latency is much better
@@josecarlossanchezmendez639 yes, but invading in seamless coop is fun, and has super fast matchmaking.
@@sillythewanderer4221 I'll give it a try I loved the way they handled invasions.
If anything, Fromsoftware should learn from that mod!
YOU CAN PLUNGE WITH BUBBLES?!?! God, I am so happy.
Shoutout to Fire Gnome realest mf I gnow
6:36 R2 into reverse backstep, SMOOOOTH wit it.
Nerdy tangent: Ember'd in DS3 is similar to Demon Souls with body form. It's all in the phrasing. They treat the -30% HP as your default state. WOW does the same thing with the rested XP bonus. They say you're "rested" with it instead of saying your normal default is "tired" without it and players respond better to it.
Not really the same when the first ring you can get in the game is cling ring halving hp loss in soul form. Tells players straight up you are supposed to have more than half hp at least
15:40 this is how I play with my wife. If she's out of potions or near a boss gate and someone invades at a bad time I go 1v1 them while she runs for safety or a better area. THEN I catch up to her if I haven't already won the duel.
WL+11 also invades down hosts with Patches Spear +7.
Crossing into RL36 / RL+8 starts matching with the very popular RL60/+12 meta. Essentially crab shack duelists that like to prey on Varre's quest invaders - as those clueless players typically have the mentioned Rogier's/BKH +8.
Igon's Greatbow was a real gift to Hero strength builds, lowering the bar on required dex.
"As intended" invasions is how I approached launch, but stuck with base RL/+0 so I could collect and template out builds later. Unfortunately the big password pools immediately polluted invasions with OLPs, even if they weren't THAT overleveled, yet.
You know what felt odd to me. Why did people treat the DS3 Ember system differently than the DeS Soul/Body system. They are the same thing, but one is seen as a debuff while the other is seen as a buff. What?
They are the same thing, Demon’s Souls, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3 all take away HP when you die. I always fight a boss in DS3 embered.
It's crazy how much hate Soul Form and DS2 hollowing gets while Ember gets praise. All they did was hide the fact that you aren't at max health
might have to try this low level +11 thing. the damage seems more substantial than i can usually do in that range
As a heads up whatever you did in this video was right move. I haven't seen a video of yours in months but this one is being pushed for some reason.
Blessed Miyazaki thumbnail. Also this is only the second video I have put out after a month with no videos
I just recently started playing as intended too! light roll only greatbow, waiting for people to start doing anything and shoot. its hilarious.
I miss gravelording.
Okay tough guy killing someone with a back step backstab missed animation is a new one for me. 6:37 Also side note does it seem like a lot more people have DLC equipment at low level than in DS3?
i think theres an item duping/dropping community for this game on Reddit. could also be given by a friend. a buddy of mine gave me a fire knight helm before i'd even gotten to altus plateau lol
Amazing video man. Really entertaining gameplay and commentary
Nice vagrant story ost. Your taste in PS1 classics is outstanding, bro.
Matsuno was my Miyazaki before Miyazaki was. All those Sakimoto soundtracks are my first loves.
@@saintriot fucking based
Bubblecality
Heard the music and everything turned blue and spooky all of a sudden.
Hey look it's that guy that does both of those things at the same time!
i got killed with a spread crossbow in this youtube video while panic rolling like a complete bobo, sad
ggs!!
I unsubscribed from everything Elden Ring until I had time to play the DLC. So I've been away since release.
Now that I've finished most of it I'm back on the train. I have to say (and I stress that this is a compliment of the highest degree), your stream-of-consciousness rambling feels like home to me. Please never change a single thing.
finally some frostbite appreciation. the only status effect without an AR boost talisman
God invasions are just unrewarding unlike before you get cool stuff at certain levels.
One of these days I really want to a pvp themed challenge in these games. Just started invading for the first time a few months ago now.
the spread crossbow shot at 5:07 kinda spooked me
We believe it was shown that the upgrade level on a weapon is in fact, factored in when invading. Which makes sense considering the scaling variance with ERs panoply.
Alternate title: Man with 40 builds makes new build (as intended)
punishing a guard counter with the spread crossbow is slick!
ive done that a lot back in ds3, but elden ring is just not the same to me, bonfire duelists, ganks TT off, everyone spaming L2, status effects with no way to deal, really insufferable stuff
Maestro. Glad you're still having ER FUN!!!
Thanks I'm glad you're still enjoying watching it
Hi saint I've literally watched every one of your videos
thanks for being our fromsoftware philosopher
You get it bro, thank you.
Hey Saint love your videos you da man!
What the hell dude I'm 6 minutes into this video and there is no rant. What is happening Saint plz are you okay?
OMG, the 'verticality' guy!
15:51 the arrow went under his legs
i would have though that the beast claw was meant to be similar to the weapon from bloodborne that you have to go through iirc loran chalice to get, you know the one that transforms into a wolf hand
I wanted to make a low level sekiro build with deflects and all. maybe I could try doing it like this.
I did a Sekiro cosplay at rl40/+8/+3 and it's really fun! Highly recommend it :saintrJimboshinobi:
GHIZAS PIZZA CUTTER LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
yooo, frog man is back!!!
Love you Saint
I need to at least be a level 180 character. I like having a good hybrid.
Love low-level invasions, not as spammy and honesty is the sweetest reward
2:39 RAVIOLI STEP
I come here for unhinged rants sir
Fuck yea, vargant story!
oh look its a new sain triot video!
You must think you are slick, Saint, but I know a Return to ganker Island video in disguise when I see one >:U
We have to go back!
based and intentionpilled
I nominate Fire Gnome for Phantom of the Year
Holy shit, Milleuda Folles co-invader. SAINT HOW DID YOU NOT COMMENT ON THIS. 10:09
Im surprised you dont like the fire knight greatsword. It's basically just the Lothric Knight Greatsword but for fire damage instead of lightning.
Edit: lol
It completely power creeps all other greatsword except for very niche builds. Which is the same that happened to the claymore, the Katar, greyolls roar, etc
Funny I hurt my hand and hadn’t played in 9mos and then started the DLC. Totally thought that’s how it worked and started farming Rune Arc’s like a goofus
as intended
Crossbows and ballistas need a buff… most crossbows are completely useless and the ballistas should be able to reload at the time the player choses…
Saint "Intended Gameplay" Riot
What's the title of the original "verticality" video? I haven't seen it in a while
Do the arrows from the crossbow count as successive attacks?
They do not, though if you already had that buff active, I would think it would apply the extra damage to the shot.
Twinks in low level and initial area aren't what the game intended. Play the game with basic weapons, skills, and even 1-2 slots only for talismans. You're tryharding.
buddy just said tryharding
@@soundandfury9641 Think better before you put the tittle "as intended." Since when low level used DLC crossbow🤡
No melenia rune on a blood borne character?
15:30 I do this all the time because I love 1v1s, and I also love to troll hosts and invaders. In the DLC, there's a catacomb with an elevator that goes so far down that it's impossible to hit the person standing on the button.😂
If you and " chase the bro" dont have an npc invader in Elden Ring 2. I will be upset
I hope the creators see the seamless co-op mod etc. i only ever played DS3 and i honestly missed the invasions in that game. You'll literally get invaded every game more than once without having to be in a "certain boss area"
YT is trolling me with this video recommendation, I'm not an invasion enjoyer 😂 I find them so annoying.
Elden Ring; the only game where intended gameplay occurring is actually noteworthy.
@saint_riot now that the seamless coop mod has come out what has more activity for invading?
quit bein goofball