F. Chopin - Sonata no. 2 op. 35, Movement 4 - analysis - Greg Niemczuk's lecture.
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- #allchopin #chopin #chopinproject #lecture
Concert pianist describes and analizes Chopin's Masterpieces for the piano.
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This movement was an enigma to me for so many years. It looks like I was not the only one for its meaning evaded musicians from the beginning but also recordings of this work are wildly different. Rachmaninoff's must be the fastest on record but here and there he brings out some inner voices but is not consistent. The Ignaz Friedman edition makes an attempt to map these voices, in particular the descending minor 2nds. Probably the failing of most pianists is not to take the trouble to do a structural analysis. Thanks for a great lecture!
Very interesting! Thanks for the comment
one of my favorite things that chopin ever wrote. he was 100+ years ahead of his time. it sounds like what chopin thought it would be like at the moment of his death, when his entire life flashed before his eyes and he teleports through all his memories at the speed of light until he is finally gone and his soul evaporates into nothingness. Those last 2 chords always give me the chills.
i see the funeral march (which chopin later titled just "march") as the slow march towards death, while the final movement is the actual moment of death.
"When you die, your heart stops. But your brain keeps working for 5 minutes. And in those moments you dream. For 5 minutes. But there is no sense of time in the dream world so that dream lasts forever and ever." (from: "Children of God")
The end is the beginning. The beginning is the end! The endless cycle of life! It's an absolute masterpiece from a musical mastermind! Thank you for pointing this out! Your analysis is pure inspiration! Thank you!
Yes!!!! Wonderful explanation!!! Thanks for your comment!
Excellent analysis Maestro, this movement is now less enigmatic to me. I was not aware of the motivic connections with the first movement, and perhaps only when it is experienced along with the 3 preceding movement does it register an emotional impact. I am also in agreement with the tempo, it should be played with a slower speed and less pedal in order to hear the harmonic outline, looking forward to the 3rd sonata.
Thank you! I'm happy to read your comment and your thoughts.
PS. Did you know that Eva Gevorgyan said that she chose the sonata as her last piece of the recital in the third round of 18th Chopin’s Piano Competition (this year) cause she felt this is ‘the end of everything’ and one simply cannot follow it with the sounds of any other music. I couldn’t agree more.
I didn't know. But she is so deep if she thinks so. I respect her.
BRAVO!!!!
Hello Greg, I always follow you carefully and I study a lot the movement of your hands on the piano. They are for me a source of teaching and continuous improvement. I am very grateful to you and wish you the best successes in your career
Thank you so much. It means a lot to me!
I don’t know how to thank you Grzegorz. I’ve just come across your channel, ie after bathing in Chopin’s music as a result of this year’s 18th Chopin Competition… and got completely hooked on this sonata. I’ve been listening to several different interpretations on and on and on… then I found you! Anyway, yesterday I played the last two movements to a couple of English friends, i.e before I heard your analysis. Not knowing about the association with the ghosts you mentioned, I too explained to my friends, that this movement that this feels to me like a scene of an empty cemetery, just after that funeral… The people (the participants of the funeral march) have all gone. And now it’s the time for all the ghosts or the spirits of the other residents of that cemetery to come out and ‘enquire’ on who the ‘new arrival’ is. They hover above the surface of this fresh new grave and have a conversation. Perhaps the ‘new arrival’ participates in it? (I’m actually not sure about that) and tells them his life story? Who knows… Who knows… I’m sure the mystery of this movement will forever haunt all of us…
I am so grateful you pointed out to the ‘quotation’ of the masculine theme from the first movement. I would have never worked it out. I’m amazed.
Bless you and I’m now a faithful follower of your channel and look forward to other analysis. 🤍
Thank you so much! So good to have you here. You can find a lot of analyses on my playlists here on my channel. Best wishes!
@@gregniemczuk yes of course. I’ve already glanced at your channel. Will make my way through the whole sonata first… and then onto others. I’m so looking forward to your analysis. Very much up my street. I wish an average or even an avid listener could appreciate this sort of stuff. With Chopin’s music alone - I believe - it is impossible not to open one’s heart. But sometimes a person enters the banquet hall not really knowing how to handle the elaborate display of offerings…so you’ve got to give them the key… Thank you for the keys you’re handling us to enter the banquet hall of Chopin’s legacy.
Thank you for your very clear analysis. And your transparent performance is a relief compared to the conventional performances that race to show off speed at the expense of musicality & hidden motifs.
Thank you! Yes, I really wanted to show that to the world. Thank you for appreciating this
It took me some time to identify the motif taken from the first movement of the sonata at the end of this movement, but I think I succeeded:
measure 69: sixth, seventh, ninth, tenth, twelfth notes
measure 70: like the previous one
measure 71: the motif does not appear
measure 72: second, fifth, seventh, eighth, eleventh notes
bars 73 and 74: final part of the motif only: first, second and fifth notes
Thanks to Greg for the great patience with which he conducted the analysis and the beautiful, well incorporated into the previous movements and heartfelt final performance.
🎼
If you listen to Rachmaninoff's 1930 recording, you can also hear him bringing out the first movement's theme in this movement!
Agreed! Great connection
I didn’t notice that hidden theme!!! Thank you!!!
Thank you so so so much for this video. You have reignited my love for this piece. I have to analyse it harmonically for a class at university and I’m not a pianist nor a composer and I couldn’t seem to find anything to hold on to, but you made everything so clear! Now I not only have something to work on, but I can finally listen to the piece and understand it and enjoy it at the same time. Phenomenal work 👏
Awww, how lovely! Thank you for this comment!
This final movement, in particular, is totally fascinating...scary, even! As you suggested, after the Funeral March movement, how was he (Chopin) supposed to end the Sonata??? It's hard for me to imagine that Chopin finalized this extraordinarily prescient and foreboding piece in 1839, ten years prior to his death! In your opinion, you said that the first theme of the first movement finds its way to the end of this last movement...with the exact same notes hidden beneath the surface...and that it was definitely not just a coincidence. I totally agree with you. But did Chopin do this intentionally (i.e., by design), or was it more of a subliminal (or unconscious) gesture on his part? Thank you for providing us with such a fine and insightful analysis of this masterpiece!
We will never know. And because of that I LOVE music!
most likely he designed it, he doesn’t seem to be a man that just coincidentally happens to write something
Greg I very much enjoyed your live performance of the whole Sonata, and of the last movement at the very end you brought out the theme of the first movement so beautifully, just such a delicious touch! well done!
This is an amazing and thrilling piece...
Its probably been mentioned before, but i think that Chopin was probably sitting in front of his composition, thinking, how do i follow this up? I dont know either! But the open question is important. Ill give it to you.
Listening to Greg I feel confirmed on my own analysis of this foggy composition. Great job man! Take care!
Thank you!
@@gregniemczuk You're welcome!
Really enjoyed your analysis. I've never caught that first theme before but it makes perfect sense. Well played Chopin, well played.
Thank you very much!
Excellent video!
Bravo❣️
Greg imagine Michelangelo pieta👏👏👏
I 'd like to try to play this movement today!
thank you for good analysis!
I pray for your health!
Thank you so much!!!!!!
Thank you for casting light into the darkness! Like you said, I was one of those whose response to the movement was "so what's that all about?" Well, now I have a framework - and thanks to you. Like another of your commentators I immediately went to Op 28 #14 - so similar, but much easier to comprehend the melody as the lovely Aimi showed us in the Chopin Competition. Have you done any musicological comparison with 28/14...?
Great video as always. The audio on your videos tends to be very low though.
Damn it! I'm working on it. I was hoping it's better than before .m:(
The hidden theme at 9:20 sounds very familiar to the melody in Chopin's Prelude in F-sharp minor and brings the same ambiance of despair. It was one of the first things that came to mind when it was isolated and played slowly. I wonder if there is any correlation.
I've been binging your series on Chopin, and I'd be remiss if I didn't leave at least one comment. As a composer myself, I'm very thankful for your relentless analysis of my absolute favorite composer - his background, his style and the emotional weight of his pieces. I still have many videos to go through (I've finished the ballades and sonatas, now I'm working on the etudes and preludes, my favorite sets), but I wanted to express how much I'm enjoying your series. I hope you find as much enjoyment in your explanation of his music as I do, as a viewer, in watching it.
Wow!!! It's amazing what you've just found! I haven't thought about it, but it's almost the same!! And the very same character, and probably the Prelude was written more or less in the same time.
Thank you for being here with me and for your enriching comment. I want to listen to your music!
@@gregniemczuk I'm happy to be useful! His prelude in F-sharp minor is one of my favorites and I've listened to it for hours straight. The realization came to me on its own.
I'd be honored to have you listen! I only have a few compositions on my UA-cam channel, but I love music more than anything.
sorry to bother you, I followed your video in which you talked about the Elkier edition, and I found them on the Internet. Currently I would like to study the last movement of the sonata op 35, but this edition has absolutely no fingering. To study this sonata which edition do you recommend? I have Mikuli, Elkier and Cortot and Paderewski. Ed also for the Preludes which edition ? Thanks for the reply and congratulations for the beautiful tutorials.
Thank you Luciano!
Write me an email on gnpiano@aol.com and I will send you my score with fingering.
Ekier is best.
Please say something about the use of pedal in this movement
First of all. Thank you for your enlightening analysis of this piece. It was very well done and helpful. I have the Paderewski edition with me and I would like to study it by starting from the 4th movement. I wonder if there is a more suitable fingering to use it. Playing this at a slow tempo (like the first reading) doesn’t mean that it’ll work on a fast tempo, I know that. The question is do I follow the fingering written? Do you have any suggestions? Because I can’t figured out how to build a good fingering out of this maze. Thank for your precious time.
Well.... Hard question to answer here. We'd have to meet on Skype 😀. But we'll, I'm using Ekier edition but I also have my own fingering. If you want I can send you the photo. Just drop me an email on gnpiano@aol.com. but I'll be able to do it next week!
One of the most misunderstood pieces in the entire history of music. The best interpretation (perhaps the only one) is that of Wilhelm Kempff.
Wow, that Kempff version is like the polar opposite of the blurriness of most performances I’ve heard. I find the usual blurriness and almost mumbling occasional pianissimos of most performances I’ve heard distracting from the dissonance and unsteady tempo, which is plenty captivating on its own. That said, Kempff’s version seems too clear to me, almost more like a recitation than a performance. My ideal for this piece lies somewhere in between Kempff and, say, Rubinstein. Fast but not a speed-record attempt(as it often sounds like) a light pedal for the most part, and wild tempo swings.
@@mishuga I listened again to Rubinstein's version after so many years, I didn't remember it. Very honest and convincing. But maybe you hit the nail on the head when you say that "Kempff’s version seems too clear, almost more like a recitation than a performance". Chopin himself wrote to Julian Fontana about the sonata: "There is an Allegro, then a Scherzo in E flat minor, the March and a short Finale about three pages of my manuscript-paper. The left hand and the right hand gossip in unison after the March." Other English translations report "chatter" instead of "gossip". I understand that the original version of the letter says "ogadują". I don't know Polish but the literal translation should be a simple "the two hands talk in unison". I like to think that's right the intention you cought in the Kempff's version, when you heard some sort of a "recitation". That's exactly what piano virtuosos usually miss in that finale.
Chopin didn't write anything you claim. The composer's will is totally different from your interpretation.
Maybe you're correct. But the tempo everyone is playing nowadays is also different from Chopin's times
@@gregniemczuk if you are an interpreter, you should respect the composer's will. What would you think about an actor that changes Shakespeare's words? If you need to express your creativity you can write your own compositions.
@@gattafuffa4354 these are my words!
But I don't change the text/words of Chopin. I just look deeper with respect. I'm the composer myself. Many things are hidden between the notes.
I play 100% Chopin's notes.
@@gregniemczuk I'm sure you believe you did look deeper with respect. But Chopin wrote legato and pianissimo and didn't put any sign that could authorize you to play the way you did. I'm sorry, but you completely misunderstood the meaning of this 4th movement. Moreover, you claim you find out the theme of the first movement, but Chopin didn't want you to play it. If he had wanted to, he would have written it.
@@gattafuffa4354 can you chill out? Its not the end of the world if someone interprets the music different than you think. He’s not saying it HAS to be his way. Also, your thinking is not in line with the great pianists of the past, even from the early 20th century. They were taught by people who were the pupils of chopin and liszt and composers of that generation- and the way they play is very individualistic and interpreted very different from how people like you say things have to be played now. You say it HAS to be the way chopin wants it…you don’t know how chopin really played it. Pianists are supposed to add their own creativity to other pieces even if they don’t compose them. You must want everyone to play everything the exact same way don’t you? This is exactly the downfall of classical music today..no one wants indiviudalism anymore