I inherited an 1985 citation. Wasn't a piece of junk as most people have said. Would haul a lot of stuff with the rear seat folded. In 9 years of ownership never left me stranded.
'85 was the last model year. All the bugs were worked out, but the reputational damage was done. Sales numbers were heavily skewed to the earlier part of the model run, even accounting for the very early calendar 1979 launch that meant they were building "1980" models for at least 18 months.
Do you think they were experimenting with the the idea of the ultimate "cash cow"? Instead of having cars with large MSRP markups how about a car that offers absolute shit reliability which means more $ for you & your dealership
What the Christ? If you are referring to the style, I see nothing wrong with it. The Citation is better looking than 99% of the garbage produced today.
@@Joesmusclecargarage Well Joes this was an entirely new concept, you see, there are two rectangles when building a car, other manufactures were only aware or using the 1 rectangle method of design. You see, two rectangle are better than just one rectangle, most consumers did not know about the two rectangle concept. This was a huge milestone in engineering development.LOL
I'll give them credit for what they did right. Removing and replacing the heater core looks like a snap compared to most other cars. Almost bought one in 80.Rented one and spun out on an exit ramp due to its wonky brakes that would lock up at the slightest provocation. Ended up buying an 80 Caprice, one of the best cars I have had.
At 4:44 is a big black R4 A/C compressor, made by Delco Air at it's Moraine , OHIO factory. The building (2.2 million sq. ft.) was originally started as a Wright airplane factory. Sold to Charles Kettering in 1926. (Franklin Sousley worked here , a flag raiser at Iwo Jima) Closed in 2003, torn down in 2006.
as a lifelong mechanic, the citation was forefather to all other american cars..fwd, awd...back in the day this car was long anticipated...we were happy..todays generation just werent there to appreciate the past texhnology. with subframes engine, tranny, rack (on hondas) removal and replacement made simple on gm cars..fuel pumps accessable under back seat... gms 80s easiest cars to maintain and repair..became quit complicated today and most major engine or trans work we pull engine tranny and subframe together. trucks cab removal gm came up with quick dissconnect computer at engine compartment, toyota have to fish through firewall. front end, struts and all, all drops out ans head gaskets reseals, engine or trams removal simplified.... rarely are engines picked from the top anymore.
Welp, I wasn't expecting to find info on everything I need to do on my citations, but I'm glad this video answered so much. Hopefully I can get them both running again!
@@lilcourtny08 they're still out there. Not in large numbers but still out there. Actually just got an engine out of an '81 X-11 as a spare for my '83 Pontiac 6000 STE. And yes a few of those are still around too. About 3 including mine that I know of. Possibly more in hiding. 🤣🤣
@@lilcourtny08 idk what part of the country you're in but I grew up in North Eastern Pennsylvania....they were still around in decent numbers till about 2004-05. Usually the :83-'85 models survived. A buddy of mine has a car lot and picked an '85 up at an auction about 5 years ago. I was gonna buy it but was content with my 6000 and '85 Celebrity at that point.
Looks like the design team exhausted their energies designing a serviceable and repairable vehicle rather than building a durable machine that didn’t break down
Big wigs ignored test driver complaints eventually leaving customers to deal with it.gm was pissed that the chrysler omni horizon cars beat them to market and wasn't going to let the 81 k car upstage them.
Ground-breaking - in many ways - design was sunk by its plethora of faults. Sad. GM tried hard, but just did not have the know-how yet to match the imports' planning & production.
The Citation did more to drive Americans to foreign cars than anything since the awful Volare. I was in college when these came out and couldn't believe how poorly made they were. No wonder so many Americans swore off of our own cars!
Even today look at the discontinued cruize. Just a second best effort and reliability disaster compared to Japanese . Never did match the quality . Cost and profit is the only thing that will ever matter to US manufacturers.
Typical gm rushing good ideas out to market. Had they done it right the first time with corvair, Vega, citation, quad 4, 350 diesel and so on. I'm pretty certain they would have a controlling share in the car industry
As a citation owner I will say that these things are absolutely not very accessible or easy to service. The damn spark plugs on the v6 are awful to replace. 😂
Ah, the X-bodies. Cars that could have been great except they weren't that good. Proof that US automakers lived by the axiom of, "We don't want it good, we want it fast." That and other actions are what made it necessary for GM to get a government bailout. Don't get me wrong, they had a lot of good ideas, but product quality subceeded expectations.
@@LearnAboutFlow I wouldn't say that's entirely true. The downsized B-body platform was well thought out, and forced Ford and Chrysler back to the drawing board on their full sized models. Except for that, though, yes, just about every project delivered in the 1970s and 80s was a salute to underachievement. Find a car that succeeds in the market, build a half-assed version of it with components we already have, and build it well enough that it'll look great for a year until pieces start rusting and falling off.
Heh, I doubt most owners ever made it to the first 30k plug-swap; the spark-plugs lasted longer than these heaps. GM excelled at promoting Japanese autos.
Your teenagers first car oh man I didn't get a Camaro they bought me a citation instead. Saying the insurance is lower and it gets better gas mileage. The parents got a Caprice estate or Caprice Classic.
The best thing about this car is the ability to remove that engine and put in a Volkswagen 1.6 L turbo diesel, and it comes with shiny Chrome metal bumpers even today's most expensive cars you get a plastic cover and one little scratch cost $3,000 to repair. I probably Drive old GM cars that have shiny Chrome metal bumpers that you can take out mailboxes and trash cans with. There's nothing worse than an ugly old plastic bumper cover. All our bumpers are now girders in Chinese buildings. Somebody should have complained and refused to buy cars with plastic bumper covers.
I agree. It was a total step back when they brought in body colored plastic moldings. Metal bumpers did the job they were placed there for and you could easily replace them
I'm sure those engineers were thinking of me when they hid that Iron Duke distributor between the engine and the firewall! 😅
Great engine though.
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!
You would think by the time the A cars came along in '82 they would have moved all of the ignition system items up front.
@@relaxinmaxin7246 Great for your lawn tractor--but this was stuck in a car. I remember it well when it was released, do you?
@@loveisall5520 Owned two 1980 Monza and 1980 Citation
I inherited an 1985 citation. Wasn't a piece of junk as most people have said. Would haul a lot of stuff with the rear seat folded. In 9 years of ownership never left me stranded.
'85 was the last model year. All the bugs were worked out, but the reputational damage was done.
Sales numbers were heavily skewed to the earlier part of the model run, even accounting for the very early calendar 1979 launch that meant they were building "1980" models for at least 18 months.
GM is known For finally getting it right by the time the damage is done and it’s too late
Yeah, they were great as long as you just used them sitting in the driveway...
@@nlpnt Well you were one of the lucky ones then.
Which engine did you have?
"This one's for you", which means: " You're gonna see this garage queen quite a lot ".
Do you think they were experimenting with the the idea of the ultimate "cash cow"? Instead of having cars with large MSRP markups how about a car that offers absolute shit reliability which means more $ for you & your dealership
Imagine putting passengers in the “second rectangle” instead of the “first rectangle” with the engine. Genius. Pure genius.
It just threw the 3 box design out the window!
What the Christ? If you are referring to the style, I see nothing wrong with it. The Citation is better looking than 99% of the garbage produced today.
@@Joesmusclecargarage Well Joes this was an entirely new concept, you see, there are two rectangles when building a car, other manufactures were only aware or using the 1 rectangle method of design. You see, two rectangle are better than just one rectangle, most consumers did not know about the two rectangle concept. This was a huge milestone in engineering development.LOL
Love the wide lapels. BTW, those fuses do actually require tools.
It's a good thing they made it easy to work on, because GM techs back then had to do a lot of it. Multiple recalls, anyone?
@@LearnAboutFlow Haha, right?
And still today ford wins recalls hands down,anyone?
GM fought the recalls on Citation over the break locking issue. They didn't care about anything but profit
GM fought the recalls on Citation over the break locking issue. They didn't care about anything but profit
I'll give them credit for what they did right. Removing and replacing the heater core looks like a snap compared to most other cars. Almost bought one in 80.Rented one and spun out on an exit ramp due to its wonky brakes that would lock up at the slightest provocation. Ended up buying an 80 Caprice, one of the best cars I have had.
The locking rear breaks were part of a scandalous error in the X car, along with a partial recall.
Love the comment, "this one's for you!" Given the disaster these were, the "one" was the middle finger.
they used the title of a Barry Manilow song for that line.
@ 1:49 "This one's for you". They meant the middle finger.
Split engine cradle? Great for structural rigidly!
LoL!
I am gathering the Service Design Committee for the X-Cars were engaging in alot of liquid lunches because they really missed the target.
At 4:44 is a big black R4 A/C compressor, made by Delco Air at it's Moraine , OHIO factory.
The building (2.2 million sq. ft.) was originally started as a Wright airplane factory.
Sold to Charles Kettering in 1926. (Franklin Sousley worked here , a flag raiser at Iwo Jima)
Closed in 2003, torn down in 2006.
Even Mercedes-Benz used the R4, sourced from Delco for it's W123 model back in the 70s and 80s.
I remember seeing a few of these on the road in the 1980s, it sure if any were still on the road when the 90s come around. 😂
There’s a reason the car is highly serviceable. It’s going to be in there a lot.
as a lifelong mechanic, the citation was forefather to all other american cars..fwd, awd...back in the day this car was long anticipated...we were happy..todays generation just werent there to appreciate the past texhnology.
with subframes engine, tranny, rack (on hondas) removal and replacement made simple on gm cars..fuel pumps accessable under back seat...
gms 80s easiest cars to maintain and repair..became quit complicated today and most major engine or trans work we pull engine tranny and subframe together. trucks cab removal
gm came up with quick dissconnect computer at engine compartment, toyota have to fish through firewall. front end, struts and all, all drops out ans head gaskets reseals, engine or trams removal simplified....
rarely are engines picked from the top anymore.
I love these videos....keep them coming!
They thought about serviceability, and then put the oil filter and distributor low on the firewall side of the Iron Duke?
Welp, I wasn't expecting to find info on everything I need to do on my citations, but I'm glad this video answered so much. Hopefully I can get them both running again!
Room for five AND front wheel drive? Impossible!
The Citation was designed to spend most it’s time in a service bay.
My Mom had a 81 2 door from new, other than regular maintenance it was trouble free till she traded it in on a 85 Caravan
Growing up in the 90's I remember plenty of these being around till about 2004. But still today there's some in varying conditions that still exist.
Those cars were long gone before then, I can't remember the last time I saw one these junk cars on the road.
@@lilcourtny08 they're still out there. Not in large numbers but still out there. Actually just got an engine out of an '81 X-11 as a spare for my '83 Pontiac 6000 STE. And yes a few of those are still around too. About 3 including mine that I know of. Possibly more in hiding. 🤣🤣
@@lilcourtny08 idk what part of the country you're in but I grew up in North Eastern Pennsylvania....they were still around in decent numbers till about 2004-05. Usually the :83-'85 models survived. A buddy of mine has a car lot and picked an '85 up at an auction about 5 years ago. I was gonna buy it but was content with my 6000 and '85 Celebrity at that point.
Looks like the design team exhausted their energies designing a serviceable and repairable vehicle rather than building a durable machine that didn’t break down
1:03: HEI = high energy ignition (solid state).
The most thoroughly tested vehicle in GM history? Now that's concerning
Big wigs ignored test driver complaints eventually leaving customers to deal with it.gm was pissed that the chrysler omni horizon cars beat them to market and wasn't going to let the 81 k car upstage them.
These were breaking transmissions just backing off the car carrier JUNK X
Ground-breaking - in many ways - design was sunk by its plethora of faults. Sad. GM tried hard, but just did not have the know-how yet to match the imports' planning & production.
It’s the same car as the Salon and Phoenix not that ground breaking
GM rushed the debut. Should have waited another 6-12 months.
In 1980 Chevy claims to have invented the first car that put the passengers BEHIND the engine. That’s “Dual Rectangle Design”! DRD baby.
Now that's funny. The first time and the last time you see that they made it easy to get to the spark plugs for easy servicing and maintenance.
Why did they name a car after a speeding ticket?
There are a few definitions of the word citation. One of them being "a mention of a praiseworthy act or achievement" that's what they were going for.
@@operator91210 I know. I was an English minor. Just a bad joke!
@@operator91210 "I said, 'Callin' all trucks this here's The Duck and I'm about to put the hammer down'."
Many names were tried. Including the Summons and the Bench Warrant. The DUI.
The Citation did more to drive Americans to foreign cars than anything since the awful Volare. I was in college when these came out and couldn't believe how poorly made they were. No wonder so many Americans swore off of our own cars!
This explains the demise of Chevy. They don’t know what a rectangle is.
Even today look at the discontinued cruize. Just a second best effort and reliability disaster compared to Japanese . Never did match the quality . Cost and profit is the only thing that will ever matter to US manufacturers.
Wow - what a total POS that was! Worst car I ever owned from a repair standpoint. Too bad, because the concept was very good.
Typical gm rushing good ideas out to market. Had they done it right the first time with corvair, Vega, citation, quad 4, 350 diesel and so on. I'm pretty certain they would have a controlling share in the car industry
Well, 40 years later, we know what a pile of junk those cars were! The best test is the test of time!
My mom had a 81, unbeknown to mom my brother & I run the crap out the thing ! 😂😂✌
As a citation owner I will say that these things are absolutely not very accessible or easy to service. The damn spark plugs on the v6 are awful to replace. 😂
Ah, the X-bodies. Cars that could have been great except they weren't that good. Proof that US automakers lived by the axiom of, "We don't want it good, we want it fast." That and other actions are what made it necessary for GM to get a government bailout. Don't get me wrong, they had a lot of good ideas, but product quality subceeded expectations.
This poor guy trying to pitch one of the worst cars GM ever made? Should I feel sorry for him?
@@LearnAboutFlow Could very well be.
Yea only because we have 42 years worth of hindsight.
@@LearnAboutFlow I wouldn't say that's entirely true. The downsized B-body platform was well thought out, and forced Ford and Chrysler back to the drawing board on their full sized models. Except for that, though, yes, just about every project delivered in the 1970s and 80s was a salute to underachievement. Find a car that succeeds in the market, build a half-assed version of it with components we already have, and build it well enough that it'll look great for a year until pieces start rusting and falling off.
Mister Excitement
@@86twin They were instantly bad.
No thank you I want a Malibu
The Citation could have been a good car...But it wasn't Whatapieceacawcaw!
Heh, I doubt most owners ever made it to the first 30k plug-swap; the spark-plugs lasted longer than these heaps. GM excelled at promoting Japanese autos.
Chevy citation was a rolling piece of crap
My dad bought a 1980…last Am made car he ever bought….
For good reason!
Your teenagers first car oh man I didn't get a Camaro they bought me a citation instead. Saying the insurance is lower and it gets better gas mileage. The parents got a Caprice estate or Caprice Classic.
The best thing about this car is the ability to remove that engine and put in a Volkswagen 1.6 L turbo diesel, and it comes with shiny Chrome metal bumpers even today's most expensive cars you get a plastic cover and one little scratch cost $3,000 to repair. I probably Drive old GM cars that have shiny Chrome metal bumpers that you can take out mailboxes and trash cans with. There's nothing worse than an ugly old plastic bumper cover. All our bumpers are now girders in Chinese buildings. Somebody should have complained and refused to buy cars with plastic bumper covers.
"...put in a Volkswagen 1.6 L turbo diesel,"
My preferred choice would be a 3800 V6
I agree. It was a total step back when they brought in body colored plastic moldings. Metal bumpers did the job they were placed there for and you could easily replace them