General Motors' (GM's) Largest Pontiac Mistakes: An Insider's View (with Bob Lutz)
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Learn more about the demise of Pontiac and what GM could've done to stop it.
Also, check out the interviews with John Manoogian on the 1997 Grand Prix...
Part 1:
• 1997-2003 Pontiac Gran...
Part 2:
• 1997-2003 Pontiac Gran... - Авто та транспорт
Lutz hit the nail on the head with U.S. corporations. CHEAP. CHEAP. CHEAP.
And then there is Apple - EXPENSIVE
US corporations don’t cheap out on executive bonuses. Cut costs there and move the savings to product/service improvement. Improve sales and pay the workers better. Crazy, I know.
Back in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, I worked in management for Marriott Corporation and we were given a little plastic business card-sized card that listed Bill Marriott’s key management principles, one of which was “MBWA” which stood for “Management by wandering around.” Part of that MBWA principle was to become intimately familiar with one’s competition. It is astounding to me that the top executives at a corporation the size of GM wouldn’t have a clue about its competitors’ vehicles.
SO MUCH THIS!!!!! The fact that they pushed such a blind idiot who knew how to work the "GM system" thru the management structure to CEO shows you how broken GM's culture was. Instead of promoting people who had good ideas, they promoted people who "would not rock the boat", which were almost always MBA's/accountants instead of engineers and designers.
I've been retired for more than a dozen years out of a thirty year automotive career, with a solid 15 years of GM dealership experience. I can remember talking with an area GM dealer manager and expressing frustration over inconsistent and just plain bad product and content decisions. To my surprise he succinctly captured what was happening with this statement: GM has a both a lot of really good people and a lot of really bad people - and the way corporate is set up, the good people can't do anything about the bad people. GM would often identify and promote talented individuals - and tell them that they had to work with the turkeys. GM lost a lot of talent from this perverse corporate model.
I've posited for a long time now, ANY organization, REGARDLESS of its professed objective, serves itself first over time. This applies across the board. GM, Tesla, Pontiac, Chrysler, SVB, Congress, the list goes on and on and on....
...and it shows!
@@Eupher6You are precisely right. It takes strong leadership to prevent that slide into complacency and selfishness. Even with strong leadership, human nature is such that it just might be impossible to avoid it in all circumstances.
Was that during the time GM had a president or maybe CEO that had led about his resume and was eventually bought out? I think he came from a detergent company that got rid of him. I think GM loss 30% of its market under him with the horrible cookie cutter approach. 🤔
@@Eupher6 Our government most of all, purposely destroying the United States and countries around the world.
I have maintained for the past 25+ years that GM car interiors were designed by a cost accountant and often joked about it to my friends. Bob pretty much confirmed this is the case. GM brought about its own demise.
Adam, you need to do more interviews with Bob Lutz. This man is an absolute automotive genius and legend! I absorb everything he says. His anecdotes on the industry are a real eye opener to what goes on that the layman would have no clue about. So please, more interviews and longer ones! I beg you!
I was 13 in '76 and my dad had bought a '69 GTO that was a very faded Verdoro Green from a co-worker for $600. It looked bad but, it ran like hell. My friends loved when my dad did burnouts when he picked us up from the movies, lol. He taught me to drive in that car and I was going to get it when I turned 16 but, unfortunately my oldest brother wrecked it and 2 years later my dad passed away. Today I am fortunate enough to own a 32 option numbers matching Liberty Blue example that needs just a little love to be perfect. They'll have to pry this Pontiac from my cold dead hands.
I was 14 in ‘75 when my older brother bought a nice, green ‘68 GTO for $700. I still remember the feeling we both had on the test drive. I was saving my pennies in hopes of one day buying it from him but he moved from the Northeast to Tennessee and took it with him. The next year he came back to visit driving a sweet ‘70 Camaro SS which I never saw again after he left. I did okay with a ‘70 Lemans Sport and two ‘69 Camaros, all with 350’s. I do miss those days.
Right there with you. They can bury me in my car!
@@scooterp7009 '69 Camaro just about my favorite body style of all cars. I even missed out on a Purple/White 426 Hemi 'Cuda Convertible I came across for sale while washing my car at a coin-op car wash because I didn't have 16K laying around at the time. About 10 years later these were hitting six figures at auctions.
P.S. ironically one of these 32 options cost $32 for Cornering Lamps. I got HS papers when I bought the car and can't find them but, can always order another copy. Unfortunately they don't give you numbers on how many vehicles came with a particular option but, I'm guessing not may people ordered this on a GTO. Any guesses from the audience? The car was built in Fremont, CA. and sold in L.A. coincidently at one of the same dealers my dad bought parts for his from. Ruehman Pontiac on Lankershim Bl.
@@RedBud315 Didn't even think they were available. Cornering lamps were usually only a full-size option... I couldn't get them on my '73 Grand Am.
Bob Lutz is such a pleasure to listen to. He knows cars and he understands people. Very interesting interview!
Thanks for another great interview. It is absolutely tragic that senior executives not only didn’t know the quality of what their competition was putting out but that they also allowed the MBA P&L leaders to con them with the JD Power rankings. Such a shame GM executives failed the workers and customers.
The days of GM riding over to Chrysler to see the new '56 Plymouth were over. They couldn't be bothered.
So it was with all American companies. Boeing is the latest example.
Bob Lutz has been one of my heros for years. I've read all his books, which I highly recommend as they help bring understanding to the business and political environment in the big auto companies plus they Bob shares some hilariously funny stories along the way.
I just did a wiki search on him and again I find myself admiring him as he is still a car guy talking car business with cleverness at the age of 91. I hope to be able to do that at 91.
Thanks Adam!
His books are great reads. I appreciate his candor and humor. Sharp as a tack at 91 years young; may he have many more years ahead of him.
Thanks for your comment, I will check them out!👍
@@johnh2514 And still smoking cigars!
@@bobjohnson1587 And flying planes!!
I think I've understood what happened to General Motors. Basically what happened, and this might be still happening, is that GM got so big that it basically became dead from the neck up. As Bob Lutz said, no one at the top of GM or maybe even the middle gave a crap what cars Pontiac made or what Oldsmobile meant to people. It's real unfortunate that this ended up killing so many good brands like Pontiac and Oldsmobile.
and Saturn 😁
Buick is next in the US... Chinese-made small CUV, Korean-built CUV, and the Enclave. All boring, crappy and a 120+ day supply on the lots. Nobody wants a Buick anymore.
It may be that GM someday, possibly soon, will be just General Motors, and brand their cars as such. No individual makes within the GM corporation. They’ll keep Corvette, maybe a couple of Cadillacs, Chevy trucks., and whatever SUVs happen to be selling acceptably. Costs will be slashed, along with workforce. (but prices will still rise). The divisions of years gone by will have little meaning any longer, no mystique, no uniqueness. They’ll all be gone. A sad ending to a once great company. Once politicians got involved in “saving” GM, it was the beginning of the end.
I could be wrong. I hope I am. But since buying a ‘77 Impala with built-in defects, I’ve been watching GM go downhill year after year, with few exceptions. Bad decisions, poor quality control, and continually introducing products without correcting the bugs, then abandoning them quietly without taking responsibility for the results. This can’t go on indefinitely, imo.
I would debate whether those were good brands? I hear a lot of fawning over passed Glory. All Pontiac was putting out was rental car material. As far as General Motors has a company? They probably made more money off of their financing arm, GMAC. As well as other ventures. And Buick makes most of its sales in China now.
@@olikat8 unfortunately you would be wrong. Most of Buick sales are in China. The US market doesn't matter anymore. All Americans want to do is buy pickup trucks.
In DeLorean's book, "On A Clear Day You Can See GM", he remarks of how out of control things had become with new options. The effect was hundreds of different dashboard combinations which he narrowed down to just a few. This still yielded memorable dashboards in the 1970s Firebirds, Grand Ams, and Grand Prix models. A good example of cost reduction with an addition of well placed spending.
I had a 1966 Catalina that I inherited from my grandfather. The build quality was just incredible- like a contemporary mercedes of the time. Even at 100K+, everything worked, all the time, and nothing ever showed any wear. You couldn't even tell when the gears shifted. It was just an amazing car. Until some dude in a Plymouth Sundance passed over a hill and we crashed head-on. I pulled over, shut the engine off, and went to see if he was still alive out in the adjacent cornfield.
One of the most spot-on comments from Bob that I’ve ever heard, “they were running GM to be as convenient as possible for GM.” That is EXACTLY right.
Bob looks about 70 but is 91. Smoking a fat cigar and enjoying life. What an absolute legend.
He's talking about domino's! Before they changed their pizza recipe I honestly hadn't had a domino's pizza in 10 years now we ordered them quite quite frequently. Also I agree 100% with his assessment about the GM interiors. I've always been a fan of Japanese cars and used to wonder how anybody could sit in a Camry or accord and still be impressed with the interior of a grand am or old's mobile alero? Squeaky, Shiny, Cheap and leaky would be the best descriptions
I ask myself this when I sit in my Toyota.Tacoma. It has a very chinsy made interior.
Great interview, excellent perspective on what went wrong at GM. Here is another aspect of bad product engineering: some automotive customers, read that to mean enthusiasts, have long memories. "Once burned, forever learned". My father, for example, once had a bad experience with a 1957 Dodge station wagon, He would never buy another Chrysler product because of that car, wouldn't even consider looking at one. Myself, on the other hand, have had several bad experiences with GM products, so as a consequence I have written GM off in my mind, will never even consider a GM product. And these experiences happened decades ago. And when asked by other folks about an automotive recommendation, what do you think we'll say? Bad products can really wreck a business, so corporations need to reign in the bean counters and really consider the customer or they risk long lasting failure. Reputation is important, difficult to earn and easy to lose.
Adam, clearly stuck in the 80's with the "Members Only" jacket !!! LOVE IT DAWG !!!
Great interview! To me, the bean counters have been running the Big Three for nearly four decades, prompting departments to cut costs harshly, especially in R&D and during the design phase of a vehicle. Using inferior materials in the interior may have cut costs, yet it lost a few potential buyers into the brand, due to blandness and bad ergonomics. Pontiac should not have suffered the death it did, the same for Oldsmobile.
Bean counters are a pest to the car and engineering professions. Should stay look after money. Not running engineering concerns!
There's nothing special about Pontiac or Oldsmobile to keep around.
@@WALTERBROADDUS should have seen them in 50s&60s, safaris ,442s excellent styles.
But there was in the recent past.
And great performance as well.
As a retired GM employee of over twenty years Service, I can well remember the millennium years, when an intransigent attitude to cost cutting and de-skilling eventually tanked the company
Thank you Adam, for the long-awaited return of Bob. Always interesting to hear his point of view. And his thoughts on the “major pizza chain” was hilarious.
Do you know who he was talking about? Dominoes Pizza sucks balls, and that seems to be all we have around here. I used to work at a boxing factory that made the boxes for Little Caesar's Pizza, and he demanded nothing less than top quality for the least amount of cost, and it showed on his skimpily topped pizzas as well.
As far as I'm aware it is Domino's. I was listening to a podcast just the other day on the pizza wars between Domino's and Pizza Hut.
@@davepax982 my bet is Dominos as well. It was certainly an accurate description of their product in the late 90s/2000s.
@@johnh2514 I think Dominos, BUT, do some research on Pizza Hut. They are in free fall for the same reasons. It is NOT the same pizza of even 30 years ago.
It was evident that Bob was anxious to tell his story, which is always the mark of a great interviewer. Well done, Adam! Your own knowledge was certainly a catalyst for Bob and I enjoyed hearing the remarks from both of you. Now, if I could only have my '68 Tempest again, I'd be a happy guy..... 😄
Wow, great interview, and to Bob Lutz, Thank You for Your Service, I had a son attend summer camp at MMA! What an insightful perspective about Pontiac. My first car was a 73 Luxury LeMans, and I later had an 85 Fiero that I took with me to Germany on my Army tour there It was hugely popular among the locals, the gals treated me like I was driving a Ferrari, wanting a ride. All in all, I'm pro-Pontiac, and I really enjoyed this episode.
A great interview, thanks Adam.
Not much specific talk about Pontiac, but our take-aways were Bob's thought provoking metaphors. We also like the comment about none of the corporate execs at GM were "car guys". Well, that certainly explains a lot about their downfall.
I was a mechanic at a Pontiac dealership in 1977 when the new downsized 1978 Grand Prix first arrived on the lot, fresh from the factory. We were all interested in seeing the new redesign. I climbed on to the transporter truck and peered in to the interior and there were peel and stick door panel trim pieces, (similar to the peel and stick body side molding), that had already fallen off the door panel and were laying on the seat and floor. So I can relate to Bob Lutz when he said "General Motors was doing what was convenient for General Motors".
The downside of comparing raw sales numbers is that there is massive population growth and shift in the competitor set over the same period. Market share is probably the best or at least a reference point.
That Bob still smokes stogies at his age is an astounding aside worthy of note. He is, truly, a sage. This interview speaks volumes. The quality of the product is paramount. You do not win by cutting costs. Sure, costs need to be kept in check. But that is not the same thing
Given Bob’s experience from one brand to another, I suspect Adam knows more about the details of individual models or years. Adam asked good leading questions and Bob provided good general answers, but one could wish for more granular details which Bob probably just doesn’t know or doesn’t remember. Fun interview!🎤
like these videos. memory lane... and Bob just makes it more valuable
Solid work Adam!
Adam, I just heard you mention FOR THE FIRST TIME on another video the "soft-camshaft" issue which finally turned my GM-dedicated older brother away from Chevrolet in the late 1970s. But then there was the friend whose brand new Buick had a bad oil pump which ruined the engine, leaky Grand Ams, etc, etc. Most recently, my low-mileage, beloved and extremely well-maintained LT-1 Firebird Formula convertible could not even make it to 100,000 miles ---- and I realized that I actually have NEVER heard of or experienced a pre-LS series Chevrolet small-block make it to 100,000 without major repairs. What a corporation -- it's like they WANTED to drive customers away.
Always great to see the legendary Bob Lutz! When I think of high ranking auto execs, I imagine these former jock types out on the golf course making some deal or scheming up a power trip to advance their careers. Understanding the product - or even the competition - would have been too much to ask. Bob is a no-nonsense car guy, with a global outlook, nobody could ever touch him!
It confirms that the heads of GM were simply clueless and cared purely about instant profit.
No, the problem is that they focused on reducing cost instead of on increasing profit - the latter generally requires a balance of cost cutting and investing to increase revenue.
Such a wonderful gentleman, with a very unique point of view that we wouldn't get to experience without you Adam. As I've probably said in the past, I could listen to Bob all day long. He puts a smile on my face every time. Thanks for bringing this fine man back to us yet again. Cheers.
Hey Adam. So awesome to see Bob Lutz with you here, man. And still smoking da cigars, God bless and keep him. He is a National Treasure of all car guys and so fantastic to see you both here this Memorial Day weekend. :) JV Johnny
Lest not forget Bob, along with Hans
saved BMW with th R90s. Radical change for BMW at the time. I mean no one ever saw beemers as performance bikes. True visionary.
Pontiac had a great opportunity with the rebirth of the legendary GTO in 2002-2005. Functionally, it was a road rocket. But it was a sales bomb.
It was one of the most "vanilla" looking of the GM line. And it had no resemblance, whatsoever, to the "muscle car" era GTOs.
However, topping out at 400hp by 2005, it had the performance. Which places the overall car in the "sleeper" category. i.e. a grocery getter with get-up.
And a huge disappointment.
Should have called it a Firebird and left the GTO nameplate the subject of old fishing stories
@@JJPMustang Good evening WSU. Thank for your response. But I have a question for you.
The Pontiac Motor Division went out after the 2008 model year. So why am I seeing stories about a 2024 GTO.
I have also seen photos of a 2023 GTO which had 1000 hp. Have I been in a time warp? Do you know anything about these cars?
Adam this video is an example of why I like your "boring" videos. You seem to have a knack for coming up with insider interviews like this. They may be boring, but they are very informative and I like em keep up the good work
Naaah. They're not boring. Not for me anyway.
Nothing boring with these great interviews!
As usual, another fine video! The number of brands were never sustainable once imports were better executed AND the investments required to keep pace grew to massive proportions. ALL the smaller manufacturers (including brands) could not muster the capital investments necessary to design competitive engine and body packages.
Pontiac, amongst all the brands, was the largest crime in GM’s murder of its brand portfolio. It was a stunning design tradition in the mid to late 1960’s, with solid engineering. But to keep that up requires more money than GM was willing, or able, to muster.
So, it died. But boy, for some of those years, there were cars done for the ages!
P.S. Great ‘get’ on Lutz. Always an interesting interview.
For all the GM brands to be viable: Cadillac had to be competing with Rolls Royce and Bentley, not BMW and Lexus, who Buick and Oldsmobile should have been facing off against. Then Pontiac and Chevrolet would compete with the mainstream Japanese and Korean brands. But when all the brands, with the possible exception of Cadillac, were reduced to rebadged Chevy's there was no point in having multiple brands. It seems unlike Cadillac will ever be considered the best in the world, and that just doesn't leave enough room for all the brands.
That was a great interview. Bring Bob back. I can listen to him talking about GM and Pontiac all day long.
Love those old Pontiacs! Thanks for a great video!
Pontiac will always be my favorite car (have had 17, not done yet). I never liked the full size 68 with that dropped point in front. The 69 full size was a total change and I never really liked that car either. I thought the 1970 full size was unique and an improvement in both front and rear versus the 69. My family had 2 full size 1970 Pontiacs. Even now if I could find a really nice 70 Bonneville hardtop or convertible I would buy it. Even though there were some nice things about the 71-76 full size Pontiacs, they just got too big and bloated looking. Adding to the ultimate issues that led to Pontiac going down hill were the elimination of the model names that made them great. Bonneville, Grand Prix, Le Mans and so on were all names that gave Pontiac a positive identity. When they tried to be the European division of GM with all the new names such as G6, G8, 6000 and so on those model names intrigued no one, not even a loyal Pontiac guy like me. I am still irritated that Pontiac was ruined and killed off. Unfortunately we all live in a world of only pickups and SUV now so Pontiac today would only continue by being a different grille in a Chevrolet. The whole "pizza" story really hit it on the head also applying to the US auto industry.
Your comment is exactly why there's no more Pontiac. It's a brand living off of people pining for 50 years ago. When Pontiac , Oldsmobile and Saturn died. There was no reason to shed any tears.
@@WALTERBROADDUS I never understood Saturn anyway. The only differences Saturn ever enjoyed were "no hassle" or "haggle" pricing, plastic rocker panels, and a few forgettable engines. This when GM was struggling to remain a relevant car company. One wonders how many millions or billions of dollars were siphoned out of really critical divisions, just to launch Saturn and keep it viable. Another big mistake from GM, IMO.
@@WALTERBROADDUS Until a few years ago, all brands lived off past reputation. Your dad owned a brand, and that was usually the brand you were interested in. Today, half the people have no idea what they are driving as long as it has Apple Car Play.
@@katazack True... every SUV looks like every other box on wheels today. 📦
@@johnlandacre767 Saturn was designed to be GM's import fighter, and it had quite a successful run after its debut. I spent a lot of time on high school campuses in the '90s for my job, and I swear every fourth or fifth car in the teacher's parking lots was a Saturn I or II. Young women loved them. A lot of it had to do with the no haggle pricing. The Sky roadster was a beauty. We had one for 10 years but the bits and pieces were plastic crap.
Outstanding! Absolutely wonderful! Thank you for doing this interview.
I agree with all of Bob's points. At route, they weren't paying attention to their competition. A smart company pays close attention and studies it's competitors products not exclusively on paper but studies everything from the things that you see to the things that you don't see and makes sure to improve their product where they're falling short and in areas where they have advantages works to further advance themselves.
The only other thing I would add, they failed to make Pontiac stand out within GM towards the end. Decisions such as the cobalt is permitted to have a supercharged engine or turbocharged engine instead of the Pontiac version highlighted a problem that had been damaging Pontiac for years. If Pontiac was the excitement division, the exciting models if only sold in one division should be sold under Pontiac or a higher division and not Chevrolet. The idea of luxurious Chevrolets comes at the cost of Oldsmobile and Buick. Much like the performance focused Chevrolets come at the cost of Pontiac. Then after Pontiac is dead, suddenly the SS packages on Chevrolet disappear unless it's a Camaro or a Corvette. Outside of the sports cars, Chevrolets are pretty plain because they need to fit a price point. This is why you need to have in between divisions in order to allow those divisions to have the budget and more personality to reach customers who don't want an entry level model made to a price point.
I just did a quick online search for ‘66 Catalinas for sale and good luck finding one for a reasonable price! It seems Adam was way ahead of the curve on buying classics that for a time weren’t demanding big bucks.
Bob Lutz is terrific. Always the smartest guy in the room. Thanks for the insightful interview. Well done.
I skipped this interview, but then watched the one about the Aztec. Decided to go back to this one. Fascinating.
Thank you for this video Adam. I really enjoy listening to the GM guests and industry leaders and learning about the industry and learning about what happened and hearing about the many aspects of the industry insiders. Thank you once again.
It's always a pleasure to see you interviewing Bob Lutz, Adam. Great conversation!
Strangely enough I have always loved the interior of my 2000 Grand Prix GTP. It was a throwback to the '70's with modern updates. Dash is plasticky but it's easy to overlook given the performance of the L67. And according to Mr Lutz it's the best looking car they made in that era.
listening to Bob is so good. its amazing how fast 16 minutes goes by. couldn't believe i was already at the end.
I was in the market for a full size SUV in the fall of 2001. I had it narrowed down to two, the Toyota Sequoia and the Chevy Tahoe. I went to a car show where I examined both of them. The Tahoe was nice, but the interior felt cheap. Particularly annoying to me was the shifter stalk, it had a very prominent casting line down it that I could easily feel and that bothered me. The Toyota, on the other hand, had nothing like this, the interior was very well finished and didn't have a cheap feel to it. I bought the Toyota.
Excellent interview, please continue doing these type of interviews.
That Members Only Jacket! Lutz was the man!
These interviews are pure gold! Love to hear what Bob and your other guests have to say about the auto industry.
The bean counter and the car guy meet again, I love it! Thanks for another great sit down and honest discussion about the interiors.
Thanks for sharing your gift, style, sense of presentation, passion, knowledge, and contacts. Had the experience to sit next Bob on occasion, never spoke to him, but I listened to every word.
This was a very insightful interview with a legend and I loved it. We still have the second to the last model year, 2009 Pontiac G6 and still a sound and peppy little daily driver. We’ve been stranded a couple times because of its Achilles Heel, the cooling system.
I have a 2002 Grand Prix, 1997 generation, which I bought new. I still love the styling, both outside and inside. The only failures related to the interior are an ignition switch that failed when the car was about 15 years old, and the fan speed knob has been replaced, and the blower motor as well. Our other cars are a Saab 9-5 and a Volvo S80 [ergonomics? what's that?]. I hate driving the S80; it's really hard to figure out the controls, which admittedly are pretty. But at double the new price of my Pontiac they darn well should be.
Another fantastic and fascinating interview. I don’t know how you manage to get these giants of the American auto industry to come do interviews, but please keep it up! It is truly very important work because, let’s face it, these guys aren’t getting any younger and when they’re gone one day, their stories are gone too. So we all really appreciate you taking the time to document these stories and interviews. Much appreciated, Adam!
I worked for a promotional marketing agency in the late 90s on the Olds and Cadillac business. We went to Lansing to pitch a unique campaign concept to Olds, and the marketing manager -- who was one drone among many in a true "cubicle farm" -- said, "this is a great idea, but we've never done something like it...if I just put some 'cash on the hood' next month, I know I'll get enough lift, so why stick my neck out?" The organization was impenetrably bureaucratic; my father had been at Ford and always had the same complaint, that great ideas and people were constantly thwarted by a system that honored mediocrity.
I had a '76 Pontiac Astre as my first car. It was a rebadged Vega. Different grill, tail lights and steering wheel. What was the point? Not a better Vega, just another piece of poorly assembled car. Just look at 1960 and 1961 compacts GM fielded, Everyone got unique engines, mostly different cheer metal as well as different level of luxury.
Fantastic interview! Thanks for posting. 👍 Bob is awesome.
Thanks for this one, Adam.. Bob Lutz is always a pleasure to hear from. He makes some excellent points here. It's unfortunate that people need to keep relearning the same lesson.
This was a very, very good interview. Thanks for sharing it!
Thanks for doing these interviews. I really enjoy them!
I love all of your vids, but this format suits you!!! Your rapport, your timing, you are a natural born interviewer! MORE!!
I loved Pontiac. I've owned 2 Grand Prixs, late 60's early 70's. A 72 Firebird Esprit. A 65 Lemans drop top. All V8's. I miss Pontiac.
Mahalo for another outstanding interview with Maximum Bob!
Hey Adam, Bob Lutz is such an excellent source of information on General Motors!!! Way back when one of my neighbors had a 70 Pontiac Bonneville coupe, dark green with matching vinyl top & interior!! Eew!!! Thanks for sharing this exciting video!!! 👍👍🙂
Great chat loved, his down to earth approach. Give people a good product and they will happily pay.
keep 'em interviews comin baby! Great stuff
Bob Lutz is always a great interview! And it jibes with things I’d heard about GM for years. Pontiac was always one of my favorite brands growing up, thanks to my dad owning one when I was little and seeing so many Firebirds, GTOs and other models in Hollywood car chases. Granted this was the 80s & 90s so many of the models I preferred were part of the bad “Badge Engineering” era; heck, my dad’s was a simple blue 1981 Sunbird (total commuter car). But they still seemed to have a little more performance and a little more distinctive styling than their Chevy/Olds/Buick sisters. The 6000 looked better than the Celebrity, and the late 80s Bonneville at least tried to look distinct from the Olds 98/LeSabre. But yeah, you look at what Pontiac was producing in the 1960s & early 70s and see how fast things slid downhill. The “Fisher Price” interiors were a big turn-off, and the silly plastic ribs didn’t add any Driving Excitement. I appreciate Lutz & others bringing performance back to the forefront in the 2000s - they had the right idea trying things like the GTO, Solstice and G8. Who knows? If they’d invested in Pontiac and Oldsmobile in earnest in the 1990s instead of things like Saturn, Geo, Hummer & Saab maybe those two historic brands would still be around. Maybe Cadillac would have gotten better faster. But that would have required letting actual car guys like Lutz lead the product planning instead of people that just run things by spreadsheet. Great interview!
Pontiac's problems truly began from the 1970's on, when the financial people got full control of the division, as well as GM in general. These folks who managed (actually mismanaged) Pontiac put it right back to where it had been prior to its salad days in the '60s...as a maker of dull, uninspired cars that appealed mainly to older people. I think part of the problem too was GM started to see Pontiac, as the budding performance division of the company, as a threat to Chevrolet and their precious Corvette, resulting in the cancellation of a lot of Pontiac performance initiatives (the Banshee show car being a major example). Truth of the matter is, Pontiac had never really been run right after John Delorean left, and that was a long time ago!
maybe the last Car Guy at Pontiac
I really miss Lutz's monthly column in Road & Track. In fact I miss Road & Track. It died two years ago when it became a "lifestyle" magazine, it just doesn't know it yet.
Great interview and insight!
Another great video documenting the history of the way things were. It just shows how some corporation structures can get too myopic. Thankfully GM is putting out a lot better product (still not great) now.
Excellent interview, his time is valuable. Thank you!
I find it interesting that the Asian car manufacturers in the 2010's and 2020's have been making the same mistakes the American car companies did in the 70's and 80's; i.e. knowingly letting mechanical component reliability and durability decline to save cost while simutaneously also letting into comfort and richness decline too with the net result that brand loyalty suffers greatly.
Comparable to Boeing becoming a financial firm, devolving from an engineering leader.
Airbus is now the king.
I have flown neither (as a commercial pilot), distillation from those who do drive 'big iron'.
The Green 1970 Pontiac seen at the 27 second mark is a Canadian Pontiac Laurentian, with a 345 hp LS4 454 engine. I owned that car from 2011 to 2016. Many would mistake it for a Catalina.
Oh man. That was a sweet machine. Wish I owned it.
The 1970 Pontiac you pictured is actually a Canadian built Pontiac Laurentian with a factory 454 Chevy.
Excellent video! So informative!
Yep Adam, The Pontiac Trans Am saved them briefly in the late 70's, but it was strange that The Pontiac Brand was left to fail by GM...Bob Lutz laying down the truth, which has meant in the long-run, the demise of the U.S. Auto Industry.😢👐
I remember that Ford had a whole advertising campaign mocking GM on how all their cars looked alike.
Pretty gutsy dusting off that Members Only jacket
Your series with the designers, engineers, and execs are great. These stories are also lessons worth understanding. Alas few of such stories get told regardless of the industry.
Excellent interview. I liked how you basically just let him talk. Great insight. Great information. Also, one can see the car guy passion in him. Well done.
Those ribs that ran around the bumpers and doors always reminded me of the bumper guards that wrapped around the base of a Hoover upright vacuum cleaner from the 1980s.
I really enjoyed this presentation.
I think he really hit the nail on the head at the very end, when he said many people can't tell the difference between necessary and unnecessary costs. Being in a highly competitive market really is an art.
Always good to listen to Bob Lutz.
Great interview!
The Member’s Only jacket pulls it all together! And I have that same red CAO ashtray! Interview is great, too.
Great stuff you’re doing on your channel
Great interview and insight.
Bob Lutz tried admirably to rescue Pontiac with thé beautiful Solstice roadster, and the underrated 04-06 GTOs ,which were amazingly well sorted cars with nice interiors and looked good once the proper styling revisions arrived in 05.. Also with the BMW beating G8 sedans as well. What finally killed Pontiac was the 2008 recession, and Government bailout requirements that forced GM to axe Saturn, Hummer, Saab, and of course, Pontiac.
The cost accountants didn’t really start to exert much influence until the late ‘60s but it soon began to avalanche with sharing of platforms, bodyshells, then engines. By the early ‘80s you had the infamous FWD A-bodies that all looked identical. As GM began losing market share they took cost out of interiors and component quality, and denied R&D money that would have gotten them away from their underpowered and rough pushrod engines. They also forced rushed development on new vehicles which led to the GM syndrome of not getting a new model right until it was close to being cancelled. The bean counters were given undue influence at upper echelons of GM and were not counterbalanced effectively by product people. Thank you Roger Smith.
I've always admired Bob Lutz for his ability to see a clear picture about what's what in the automotive business. Not just cars either- he single-handedly saved the BMW motorcycle division in the early '70's.
Great video Adam! Mr. Lutz’ wisdom is always a treat to hear. As he explained about the executive who had not really scoped out the European cars…Well…it is a typical example of companies and company staff not showing much passion and vocation to their position. They become bureaucrats and basically useless. Sounds harsh, but the truth is that is what happens. Even Henry Ford started to limit himself at some point. His son Hazel was really under appreciated but he was right on giving more to customers because he understood what they liked, wanted, and needed. No man man is an island and no company is one either. You have to grow, evolve, and leave all options open. Life is not about money. Money is a (part) of Life! When people and companies understand this, then progress, innovation, and quality becomes a reality and the quality of life moves forward for people and for companies..
My apologies: Edsel.
Great seeing Bob again!
The lines between division siblings were blurred in the late '50s when low priced makes like Plymouth, Ford and Chevy were given big block v8s and the same options as more expensive corporate partners. It killed DeSoto and Edsel immediately. Yet. Lexus succeeded in selling up-contented Toyotas as Korean cars targeted Toyota.
Thanks Bob, this is special