3 Tang Soo Do Black Belts compete in Shotokan
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2019
- Here is the final episode of this 3 part series "Competition day".
If you've been following along, this journey started a few months ago when I had the brilliant and advantageous idea to try and learn a Shotokan Kata (Kankudai). Then take that kata and compete in a Shotokan tournament in the Black belt Kata division.
I could not do this journey alone so I requested 2 of our studio's 3rd dan black belts to join me....
With the assistance from Shotokan Black Belt and owner of Camarillo Shotokan (Shawn Danaher) we learned Kankudai and trained it religiously!
This film is evidence of what hard work and a little bit of an adventurous spirit will get you.
Please enjoy and let me know what you think of our Kata!
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Great job!
I received my black belt in Shotokan 28 years ago (I've been a martial artist for 41 years - I'm 47), and Kankudai is one of my favorite Katas.
I also have a black belt in Hapkido, as well as other martial arts, but consider myself a Karate man first and foremost. You represented yourself admirably.
The real value of kata is in bunkai. I hope you study this art further.
The problem with karate, and the martial arts in general, is that life is too short, several lifetimes are not enough....
Thank you so much. That is a lifetime worth of training you've got right there. Since it's your favorite, I hope that we did your favorite kata justice.
I would love to learn more about the interpretation of Kanku Dai, as well as the timing. I hope to take this kata again and compete next year with it, but look more like a Shotokan black belt.
@@SenseiIchi You are well on your way. My advice is to concentrate on bunkai, this will inform the timing. Although this is a black belt kata, it is fundamentally the Heian/Pinan series. It is very basic and was required for promotion to black belt along with bassai dai, the tekki katas, the pinan katas and two others. The timing is basically all on the beat and half-beat.
That said, as you are well aware, I'm sure, basics and fundamentals are the cornerstones of the martial arts. Pretty much everything is contained in this kata.
Thank you, I will do that. A few people had mentioned that to me so I will definitely look into it. Anything to make the Kata look better and help understand the timing.
As an owner of a small Tang Soo Do school, I absolutely loved this video and it's associated videos. Really enjoyed it. I've competed in Open tournaments (as have my sons, we've won some, lost some - and sometime judges just don't quite get Tang Soo Do), but to go and compete in another art's style and un-learn ways of kicking and striking to try and fit into the style is a real hard task. You guys did excellent, this has been a great Sunday Morning viewing. Great work.
Oh wow thank you so much! That was a great comment that I loved to read. I love hearing that Tang Soo Do is thriving and existing all around the world. It's one of those things in which if I don't see it or hear about, I figured it never existed at all.
Glad to hear that you and your family did well in the open tournaments. It's hard for everyone to have an open mind when it comes to different styles. I can't make someone see just the techniques, basics and power/dynamic and not EXACTLY what their own style does. It was very challenging to unlearn our thrusting kicks and head snaps and higher blocks for Shotokan's complete opposite.
Thank you so much for watching, I'm glad you had some Sunday morning Tang Soo Do to watch. Is there anything you would like to see from me in the future?
Im from the netherlands and have being doing Tang Soo Do! I am having my last exam before the pretest next week! I really love that Tang Soo Do is everywhere!
CAPTAIN I agree! Good luck on your next test! Let me know how it goes
I have chills all over! Best Tang Soo Do forms I have ever seen you do. You were all amazing and I am so proud of all three of you!🤩🤩🤩
Thanks homie! You should compete with us next year.
You guys represented tang Soo Do well out of your element! Tang Soo!!! So proud!!!!
Oh man, thank you so very much, that means a lot.
Tang Soo!
Great job!
Loved to see you guys.
TANG SOO!
Excellent katas. You guys are amazing!
Sensei I too have been studying Tang Soo Do for nearly 25 now and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for the past 16 years. I have sparred with a LOT of Shotokan practitioners and they are very skilled at what they do. Many of their katas overlap with our Hyungs. Kyokoshin style of karate katas also overlap with Tang Soo Do as well. Kwang Kee, the founder of Tang Soo Do pretty much made a Korean version of Shotokan.
He did, but at the same time he made TSD more like the styles that Shotokan originally came from, Okinawan Shorin Ryu and Shorei Ryu. TSD is more like the Okinawan parents of Shotokan, softer and more circular. Funakoshi's students changed Shotokan a lot from what he originally envisioned. His students incorporated aspects of Japanese Kendo into Shotokan and made it more linear and power oriented. Shotokan and TSD are both similar, yet different. The main differences are less technical, but more on what they emphasize. Both systems compliment each other nicely!
Very well said
Been following your channel since you did the collaboration with Dan from Art of the Dojo. I know we have chatted briefly about forms in the martial arts. This journey was really fun to watch and actually helped me decide what martial art I want to study, now to find a school that's doing online locally, 'cause I'll need them after the pandemic is over :) The music with your first form was awesome! Great Job!
Great job guys. You were all great
Thank you, we think you're great too!
That was awesome!! I am also a Shotokan black belt of many decades. In fact I competed against Shawn Danaher in a Kumite final. But you guys did an amazing job. Very admirable and with much courage to compete in such a way. OSS!!!
This is really cool. I really appreciate what you've done here.
Thank you! I appreciate you too.
What a fantastic series. Once at a shotokan tournament, a teammate of mine did a shaolin staff form for the kobudo section and got gold. This was certainly not an easy challenge that you took on but again goes to highlight how similar our martial arts are and what a wonderful community we all belong to as practitioners!
Thank you . Wow that is pretty amazing, so there is a chance for an outsider to win the gold! Good to know.
No it definitely was not an easy challenge but it was a fun one, thank you for watching and I hope you enjoyed it as much as we had participating.
Awesome job! You rocked it!
Thank you, much appreciated!
All of You Guy's were amazing.
Thank you so much! You're amazing!
I thoroughly enjoyed sharing your journey. I'm a Shotokan black belt who loves the genealogy of kata from China, through Okinawa and Japan, and finally to Korea. Your Jiindo is called Ganku in Shotokan. I'm a former black belt of Camarillo Shotokan, and you couldn't have picked a better place to explore Shotokan. All the best in your exploration.
Thank you so much for following the journey. I chose Shotokan to trace the lineage in the art of Tang Soo Do in which I train. This journey was quite eye opening and I feel that I've learned so much from all this feedback I've been given. I did see someone preform Ganku at the tournament and it looked like something I would like to learn some day.
Yes Sensei Shawn was very accommodating and generous with his time.
Thank you !
U guys did a great job. And as a shotokan practitioner and kata champion myself i must say your tsd forms did not look out of place.🥋👊
Wow thank you so much, that means a lot. I'm glad you thought so, most people say that they can 100% spot the difference.
Sensei Ichi differences are definitely noticed. But for anyone who competes, there is a wide variety or differences in technique just from sensei to sensei. Even within the same style. Also there are katas from shito, wado or goju practitioners which are different kata entirely.
That was a pretty good performance of Tang Soo Do, but also Shotokan Karate Do. Keep going!! Next time will be the gold
Thank you! That is what we hope, we're going to keep competing until we get that gold!!!
Much respect. I’ve trained in shotokan for 27 years. It’s always great to see what others are doing. Your kata isn’t much different from ours.
Thank you very much. That is a great many years to be training, good for you. Nope its not at all, that's why I chose Shotokan. Tang Soo Do gets it's kata from Shotokan.
You guys did awesome! As a 30 year Shotokan Karateka: The only flaws I saw were subtle (however you are competing with black belts so subtlety matters). I would work on your one legged balance, that very difficult jump, and just your hip rotation (your stance and arms were correct but your technique lacked power). Overall just repetition and familiarity would help. Given how light you all move I’d recommend the Kata Empi for you, I think you could take home first place with your aptitude. Also Drhuve (sp?) has some beautiful kicks!
Thank you so much! I've been wanting to try out Empi. I will let Dhruv know.
Shotokan and tang soo do are martials arts sisters. Thanks for teaching tang soo do for me. Sorry for my English grammar, I am spanish and I saw little english
Sí lo son. Por eso elegimos competir en Shotokan, para mantenerlo familiar. Gracias por comentar y ver el video.
Inspiring 👍🏆🥇
Thank you so much!
Excellent journey. Sensei Davis, Camarillo Shotokan
Thank you! Do you train with Shawn?
@@SenseiIchi Yes sir I do. I appreciated the three part series you did with Sensei Shawn about Kanku Dai. What you proposed to do for our tournament was very difficult. I was very impressed with your Tang Soo Do equivalent of Kanku Dai but thought that you each did a fine job changing it to our style's version within such a short time.
Oh rad, hes a good dude for sure. Thank you so much, that is very very kind of you to say. We hope to keep training and perfecting our Kanku dai in hopes of doing better next year.
I ❤️ good martial arts fellowship!
As do I, thank you.
Regarding: Can Tang Soo Do beat Shotokan? Like you said at the end-"semantics." Surely there are "stylistic" approaches from each system and/or instructor but at the end of the day it comes down to the individual. It's like asking if a jaguar can beat a leopard. You'v got the right idea that by studying with different instructors you improve your own technique and skill levels. To quote Funakoshi, "The style doesn't make the man, the man makes the style."
Manners maketh man! Yes definitely each system has their own style that makes them unique. For us trying to mimic that was the greatest challenge. I'm hoping by the next comp we'll have improved on that skill. Thank you for commenting and watching!
I think you guys did a great job. It didn't surprise me that you guys had a bit of a difficult time with their Kata. I did Okinawan shorin-ryu for 9 years and just started with Chun Kuk Do and I can tell you since Shotokan was derived from Shorin-ryu that the forms have a lot of stop and starts and put a lot of emphasis on single powerful strikes. I know that Chun Kuk Do came from Tang Soo Do and you have more flowing sharp moves that are quick and precise.
ChrisAter78 thank you! Yes for sure one of the more challenging parts of the kata was learning Shotokan timing and dynamics with their single strike moves.
How are you liking chun kuk do?
I love it. I am studying under Mr. Chip Wright and love my school.
well done guys, I too am not a kata fan but cheers to you all
Thank you! I feel like their are Kata people and Kumite/fighting people. Next year we will most likely compete in kata and spar as well.
Well done guys.
Thank you very much.
When I watch this I see three people who are obviously not association style Shotokan practitioners competing with unfamiliar kata. Your Chinto and Chinte, however, show the confidence that comes from familiarity. Kudos for trying something new. I don't know many people with the chutzpah to try it.
Thank you? I think.
@@SenseiIchi its a compliment. It's so nice to see budoka from different styles sharing and interacting constructively.
Ok then, thank you!!! I agree, I loved sharing with kenpo and learning the kata from Shotokan. The different perspectives are truly inspiring and amazing.
I enjoyed these videos. I’d say your kankudai is fat better than mine. It would be interesting to see something like this also with sparring. I bet you guys would also do good. Congrats!
Thank you so much! nahhh I bet your Kankudai is fatter than mine for sure!
We didn't know Sotokan kumite had so many rules and different style than our sparring so we didn't train for that. There is a Tang Soo Do tournament in Colorado we're going to compete in and we're going to finally do our forms and spar. I'll most likely document that and post it for all to see.
Thank you for sharing!
Sensei Ichi My pleasure, I’d say my favorite experiences have occurred when I venture out of my style and try something new. I find the camaraderie and generosity in the martial arts community very touching. Thanks for sharing and for these wonderful videos. All the best to you!
@@IsaacLausell Thank you very much. I agree, online martial artists can be very harsh. Most of them I've met in real life are very friendly and helpful. It's the keyboard cowboys that are the ones I will never understand.
I honestly hope that you guys are also doing full contact sparring once in a while as well. I have won a LOT of local sparring matches and competitions. Unfortunately, when I decided to step inside a Muay Thai ring, I was in for a rude awakening. I was getting slaughtered left and right. Therefore, I have decided to implement MUAY Thai in my Tang Soo Do training as well. Within a couple of years by the grace of God, my sparring excelled and have won a few MUAY Thai kickboxing matches. It took a lot of time though, but it was worth it.
Ossu! Good job for having a very short time to learn that kata and doing a different style. Shotokan is hard to make look good because it emphasizes power and many people over compensate and try to hard especially in the begining. Any interest in dipping your toes into any other styles? I hope to see more.
Thank you! It is very hard to make look good, we just tried to mimic Shotokan technique as best as we could, seeing how we weren't actual Shotokan practitioners.
I would love too! Any suggestions?
Loved the journey. Loved the playlist as well. What was name of the song that you used during your kata?
Thank you so much, I'm really glad you enjoyed it. "Time will tell" by Klayton
@@SenseiIchi Thank you so much. I grew up training in Taekwondo (USTF) and also trained some in college. I am currently training in Goju Ryu, and love having an awesome playlist while I train. (when I have the dojo to myself) Thanks. Keep the videos coming.
Welcome! Putting music to anything martial arts, especially forms always makes training better and more intense. Helps with your rhythm and flow. I'll keep them coming if you keep watching!
In the end we conclude that there is all Karate styles are small parts of a one same martial art, and that Karate in general, as well all Kung-fu (wushu) styles, Taekwondo, Jiu-jitsu, Jujutsu, Aikido, taijitsu, Kendo and etc, are parts of defense system developed in antique times of Asia!
FWIW, I think your Kanku Dai was quite good. If you presented yourself as a Shotokan black belt, I could completely believe it. You should do this again, but next time compete with Gankaku. Gankaku in TSD is the Jindo hyung, but Shotokan does it a lot differently with timing and rhythm. A perfectly executed Gankaku kata is truly awe inspiring, but it is extremely difficult to do properly. Put it this way, I learned Gankaku thirty years ago and I still wipe out sometimes drawing up into the crane stance. But that's the beauty of karate. It's the never ending quest toward self mastery. And don't even get me started on Gojushiho Dai! You did a great job!
Thank you, that's good to know.
It's funny when I was filming I happened to glace over and I saw a man doing Gankaku and was like "Hey! That's Jindo!" I observed some of the moves you're discussing and I think I might want to learn that one and try my luck with it.
That is the beauty of Karate , it never stops teaching you just how small you really are.
Thank you so much !
@@SenseiIchi You could learn Gankaku easily. It and Jindo are so technically similar. The differences are more nuanced than technical, because they emphasize different things. Shotokan is more power oriented and Tang Soo Do is more circular and about redirecting power. Ironically, Tang Soo Do is more like the parent styles of Shotokan than Shotokan is. Funakoshi created Shotokan by combining elements of Okinawan Shorin Ryu and Shorei Ryu. Bassai, Kong San Koon ( Kanku Dai in Shotokan), Enpi ( Wansu in TSD ) originally come from the Shorin school. The Tekki forms in Shotokan are the same as the Naihanchi hyungs in TSD. Those came from the Shorei school originally.
Funakoshi brought his Shotokan to Japan from Okinawa in the 1930s. Prior to that, karate did not exist in Japan. His original vision of Shotokan changed considerably once his students took over. His students made Shotokan a lot more direct and linear in its techniques. In fact many of his students incorporated aspects of Kendo into Shotokan. Tang Soo Do is more like the Shotokan that Funakoshi originally envisioned. If Funakoshi was alive today, he likely wouldn't recognize Shotokan as it evolved. This stuff does get fascinating, doesn't it?
What I noticed between the forms were that everyone's stances seemed more stable/rooted with the Tang Soo Do katas. Nice work all the same especially competing among Shotokan black belts.
Thank you, most likely because it is the style we primarily train in. It was a comfort and confidence thing.
Thank you so much, I tried to just see them as TSD black belts, nothing more , nothing less... Even though they knew far more about Shotokan than I , I figured meh , lets party!
Which is primarily why they lost in using them. It is difficult to suddenly transition into a different style. Especially one as strict in sharpness and deepness as Shotokan. It is said it is easier to go from Shotokan to another style than vice versa because of how much strength and attention to detail the stances and techniques require.
the shotokan "kankudai" is similar to one of our TSD forms but I can't think of the name! I instantly recognized jindo. Were you trying to perform it in a more karate stylized way or is that standard for you? I only ask because it's the same techniques in my association, just the way you move your body seemed a little more stiff? not sure if thats the best word, but idk. I think a lot of shotokan looks stiff compared to tang soo do, but it could be that my current association does more hip motion, big circles, almost a nod to the kung fu influence. LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can seethe influence of shotokan on tang soo doo but to my eyes tang soo looks a much more fluid style
That was amazing, i started in TSD one month ago and see this video is so motivating! Congratulations for your third place, the next time you compete youll be better
Thank you! I'm glad you started, how are you liking it so far?
@@SenseiIchi i lovit!!! i am from Costa Rica, and I want to be a black belt and someday compete in other countries!
Good job. You guys really didn't have much time to train. Is that the coolest setting for a tournament, ever?
Thank you, and no we didn't. That's why I think by next year we should be stellar.
Right?! With the ww2 planes and the hanger, I hope it's there next year as well.
@@SenseiIchi Love WW2 planes. You guys in California are lucky to be able to have so many outdoorish events.
@@edwhlam Me too. All the machinery, vehicles and vessels that came out of the 40's were truly inspiring and amazing. I know, I don't take that for granted. It was gorgeous weather the day of the tournament.
I'm a thaiboxer but I like doing kata. It is simply cool.
Ditto, though I haven't actually gotten off my butt and do a kata for a long time.
It's like a fighting dance in a sense, ya know?
Well get up! let's do some katas!
@@SenseiIchi Indeed. There aren't many katas I know. There in one simple which I do from superduperbushido intensity to near tai chi and shadowboxing.
@@Meatisfood sounds intense!
well done and realy interesting idea, from a Shotokan ka
Thank you !
I thought your kata looked very good! As an aside, that looks like a P-51 in the background. One of, if not the greatest, propeller fighter in history.
I noticed that too. P-51 and P-38 are my two favorite birds from WWII!
Thank you !
It is for sure, good eye. I thought I would add some of the planes there on display, especially around the time of the D- Day anniversary.
@@danielreid3476 Those are two great ones for sure!! I was at an airport one time standing on the tarmac and heard this huge roar behind me,. I turned around to see a P-51 take off and climb vertically until it topped out with a hammerhead stall then left the area. I had thought only jets could do that!
Nice chanel I'm a new suscriber
Thank you so much ! Welcome to the family!
Sensei ichi, you asked for my comments, so here goes. Your kanku dai was good, strong and snappy, I think you got unlucky with your opponent in that round. Becky Kanku Dai was too flowing, that is one move flowed into the other, there wasn’t enough differentiation between the moves. That may be more of a style habit or competition nerves I’m not sure, but her Chinte was good. We do have Chinte in our Shotokan syllabus and style/club variation is usually allowed for. Dhruvs Kanku Dai was also good but he needs to work on keeping his height consistent (not raising up between moves) and sometimes his upper body was too forward. All of you did well, better than I could have done. It looked like a tough competition. I’m not sure if the similarities helped or hindered, it’s hard to break a lifetime of habit with such relatively small changes. Well done to you all. Competing is hard, competing outside your own style is even harder. Osu!
Haha I did, thank you for your honesty. Thank you, what makes you say I got unlucky?
She knows, she didn't do it as poppy, as you say. Our style is poppy, but it definitely is our style, we flow and have smoother techniques than Shotokan. Getting used to being " stiff and solid " as we say, was a tough change.
Someone else had mentioned his head level, I will for sure let him know about that as well as posturing.
It was a hard habit to break, our style is majorly different in terms of relaxation vs. solid. Hard style vs. soft then hard... That sounded funny. But you know what I mean!
Thank you for your tips, they are much appreciated, and we hope to return next year new and improved !
Sensei Ichi I say you were unlucky because I thought your kanku dai was well done, strong with good timing and a good overall performance. If the draw matched you with a different opponent or any no of other reasons the result could have changed. It would have been nice to see your opponents Kata as well but with permission and video length to consider it was understandable.
@@millar876 Thank you. I also was curious if I would have done my TSD form first, would the results be different? Questions I have for the universe which I will always be curious about.
Next time I will add in my opponents video for sure.
Your Tang Soo Do kata is very similar to Shotokan Gankaku, perhaps try that for Kata competition?
I saw that! Someone else has suggested the same, I think I might look into that for next year. Thank you!
Judge our Kata, tell me the good, the bad and the ugly...
Sensei Ichi you and your fellow black belts did really well! Be proud of how you guys did, especially learning a Shotokan Kata in a limited amount of time!
You are going to hear this a lot from a lot of people, but you guys need to set your stances, before transitioning into the next stance. When you do that, it shows that you have good balance in performing your hyung/kata. This is something you guys can apply to your Tang Soo Do training as well.
Also, please continue to compete at Shotokan/All Style Karate Tournaments. It will show the versatility of your Martial Arts training AND it is another way to challenge yourself! Way to go!
@@cybermek Thank you sir! I am very proud of them and I am happy with myself and this challenge.
I will definitely do that, I do have a tendency to go faster, much faster when I preform and I need to chill that out for sure. I will apply that mindset for kata's to come, thank you.
I would very much like to compete again and try and win that gold! For myself and for the art! Thank you again!
I thought all of it was great, you guys did amazing, I was wondering could you possibly do a video on karates Hien Shodan kata, I am still very confused on the movements because I just started karate and need lots of practice.
Sensei Ichi your Kata seemed rushed, as in you didn't establish your stance before moving into your next one.
Becky the level of your punches was very high and you too flowed into your next position instead of establishing your stance and then moving. Your power moves like the elbow strike were not very powerful it was hard to differentiate between power moves and regular moves.
Dhruvs you kept bobbing throughout the entire kata also in Shotokan you are being judged the second you step on the mat when you went into the ready position both at the start and at the end of the kata you were rocking side to side. Your torso was to far forward several times.
With all that being said these are all minor details that can be easily fixed. You guys competed in a style against people who have been doing those moves and stances and have been competing in those tournaments for atleast 5 years minimum. You guys should be very proud of your accomplishments and I would like to say if you guys are ever in Lismore Australia I'd love for you guys to come and train with us.
Have say really well done guys great effort! should become a thing where you try a kata "form" from a different art "every year " maybe 🤔 p.s never wear shirts under gi ! Keep the faith 👊
As a Shotokan practitioner, I was skeptical of these videos. I enjoyed them, though. If you want to dig deeper into what Shotokan brings to the table, talk to your Shotokan connection about "KIME." That seems to be the main thing your katas lack when comparing Tang Soo Do with Shotokan. All the best. Oss.
Jeff C will do, thank you for taking a chance on me. Glad we didn’t let you down tooooo much. 😉 All the best!
As far as i know, Shotokan don't use the hips move, so may be thats the reason that they lost using shotokan, also the timing its different at the forms. (Sorry fo my english)
Dhruvs you kept raising up instead of maintaining a level position. Also in Shotokan you are being judged the second you step on the mat, the rocking back and forth to get into ready position both at the start and at the end of the kata is a no no lol. I wish you guys would've done a shotokan kata throughout, even if you don't win it's a learning experience.
He was told that, he also noticed his head level doing that.
I was told to step into (yoi?) position like that, guess I was wrong. How would I go about getting into the ready position properly?
@@SenseiIchi small step left and small step right he was rocking noticeably is the only reason I mentioned
@@jacerea8683 hmmm I will discuss this with him and we'll see what's up. Thank you
Hey Sensei Ichi unfortunately I can not judge your kata as I am unfamiliar with Tung soo do. I would have liked to see the kata of your competitors either before or after yours to judge better. However don't let this get you down, kata in Shotokan need speed and power and lower stances plus the timing of the kata seemed a bit off. Please consider your are competiting against Shotokan black belts who have been doing these katas for years. I would have liked to see what would have happened if you stayed with Shotokan kata. I think all of you did very well, and would tell you to continue perfecting the kata for next year. I believe with more time and practice you will place. My two cents. I think all of you did very well, especially since it's not a style you currently practice. Great effort!
I thought about adding our competitors kata, but then the video would have been reeeally long. I think the timing factor was something I definitely could have worked on more. We didn't fully understand where and when the timing should be and from what I saw, timing was everything in these kata. Made for more dynamic technique and presence.
We did for sure acknowledge the fact that we were in fact competing against shotokan black belts , who have been doing these kata for years. Which makes me feel even better that we did as well as we did.
I want to continue to work on this kata, maybe even learn another and come back next year and try again.
Thank you so much for your feedback!
@@SenseiIchi Long video times yeah I get it maybe breaking it into the three parts may help. Like just and Your competitors and another Vid with just one of your friends and competitors and then the last with your other friend and competitors. Maybe you still can do this on the side? Either way great job keep it up.
@@Drizztblades Yup, I will definitely consider that for next time. We didn't film the competitors in this competition, just us.
Thank you tho regardless, your input is much appreciated.
There is a reason why Shotokan blackbelt katas are... well, black belt level. It takes years to be able to compete using those and always proficciency is a result of you mastering all the low level katas first. You should be proud of yourself nevertheless, since not everyone competes in another art's tournaments at the highest level. Congratulations and keep on learning about Karate, it will make you grow as a martial artist until the point that you develop your own style.
I know right? This whole time I never really thought " I'm learning another arts highest level kata" before. It didn't really register until someone said it to me. To me it's just part of being a martial artist, learning something new. Training it for hours and hours until it's mastered. Thank you, I am proud of my students and with myself for taking this journey as far as we did and actually placing!
We do hope to continue our training and see how far it takes us.
tang soo do is pretty much shotokan karate. Its just a korean interpertation of it. Its virtually the same art. BTW, great job and your techniques are excellent.
As a TSD martial artist I feel a big difference in doing TSD vs. Shotokan. Very similar techniques but the way in which we do them are very very different.
Thank you for you kind words, they are much appreciated.
@@SenseiIchi : I agree my background is in TKD, but have also studied TSD; that said Korean Karate and Japanese Karate do have differences but both come from the same source. Look at Okinawan Karate Shorin Ryu or GoJu ryu they are older versions of Karate and have many differences but all of these forms are part of the same Karate family tree.
Tang Soo Do Brasil !!!
Tang soo!!!
@@SenseiIchi a name of the mi Master is Mike Edward Andrews he studed's whit Grand Master Hwang Kim!!!
Kankudai is not easy, great job, with more treaning it could be better
Yes it was a very tough kata, I'm hoping by next year we'll be better and do better with it, maybe even a knew kata.
Tang Soo!
Tang Soooo!!!
many Tang soo do movements look familiar to this tae kwon do practitioner
They are both a Korean art, we share the same techniques. TKD kicks more for sure and the American tang soo do students use more hands.
@@SenseiIchi I was referring to your forms/kata. In fighting we also use more hands. Grand master Wilson was a kempo black belt 20 years before tkd and hkd. He also trained with Archie Moore. He did not teach tournament tkd.
@@SenseiIchi watching inspired me to get up and practice. Thank you sir
That's what I like to hear! Thank you so much for commenting, hope to hear that you are training and loving every minute of it!
As a Shotokan practitioner and overall martial arts fanatic, this series was fun to watch. Always interesting to see the differences from one style to the next. In Shotokan, long stances, use of your hips and strong focus or kime while executing techniques are everything. I've noticed that arts like TSD and TKD for example tend to flow a lot more (i.e. less focus on individual technique).
Kanku dai is a great kata. Here are what I consider some of the best examples.
ua-cam.com/video/8hvHMw4j9dU/v-deo.html
Yessss! That was the biggest adjustment we had to make from TSD to Shotokan, was the stances, timing, level change of our blocks. We do flow more (from our Chinese influence) to where shotokan is stiff, strong and solid. They get a lot lowering in their stances than we do. Plenty of new things to keep us up late work on.
Than you for sharing and watching the series !
One family
Well done Sensei Ichi, along with your students Becky and Dhruv! You all did an excellent job, diving into the deep end, in a pool full of sharks sort to speak.
It is not easy especially going from your comfort zone, as well as area of expertise, being Tang Soo Do, to competing at a Shotokan Karate tournament, also attempting to compete on an equal footing, by performing Kanku Dai, one of their katas.
Furthermore to have all three of you representing your style of Tang Soo Do, at such Shotokan Karate competition, also doing it so in the black belt division, is a mighty valiant effort.
My observation of your Kanku Dai kata performances, is that you did not have much time to practice and fully be able to know, where the exact timing and emphasis on certain techniques might be. Did you all get taught the correct timing, adequate pauses, as well as the emphasis and 'bunkai' (application) of each technique, throughout the Kanku Dai kata?
The reason I ask is because, in your Tang Soo Do forms, all three of you looked flawless, graceful, aesthetically convincing, as well as menacing. All I can draw my observation of your Shotokan Karate kata performances, was that had you practiced this kata for three months minimum, all three of you would have had this one in the bag.
Just curious if I may ask, what prompted you and your students, to embark upon this challenge, of competing at another style's tournament, with at least one of their katas? Also how did this come about, in regards to you reaching out and enlisting the teaching help, of the Shotokan Karate Sensei, who was awarding the medals?
I hope you Dhruv and Becky, will all return next year. I am sure with more time and practice, fine tuning and fully familiarisation of the Kanku Dai kata, that you will perform much better, even possibly win first place with it, throughout the rounds. It was great to see you obtain two third place medals and one fourth place medal. Congratulations to you all once again Sensei Ichi, thank you for sharing your three journeys with us all. Osu! Juan ✌👍😊🇦🇺
Thank you!
This for sure was not an easy task, but it was great to get out of our comfort zone and be nervous and excited about something special like this tournament.
That was a question I asked in training, where to stop, when to pause, how should the timing be done. When I watch other shotokan kata , the timing was sooo much different from ours I couldn't quite get it down. I would like to work on that for next time for sure.
I just wanted a challenge, I wanted to dip into Tang Soo Do's history and see just how different/similar Shotokan was to tang soo do kata. Dhurv competed in this tournament a few years ago, so when I saw it was coming up again this year I thought... Lets go for it again. The man who runs the tournament is Shawn Danaher, the man awarding me the medal. I asked him if we would teach us the kata and he obliged very kindly.
I definitely want to return next year and try and get that gold!
@@SenseiIchi awesome I am sure that you will be able to attain the gold medal Sensei Ichi. Your Tang Soo Do forms were awesome. The best thing is that you all rose to the challenge and persevered, Osu!
@@Soldier-of-God. Thank you! Yes that was the goal and I appreciate your kind words sir, always welcomed.
Look at the YT Final Female Kata, Rika Usami of Japan. That is dynamic kata. I don't think this video is titled correctly. To me, forms is not 'competition', which implies you did sparring.
You're right, I should have titled it " Three people bowing in a karate studio".
Very nice work. I predicted at least one medal, but you got two. Those were good tries at the Shotokan kankudai. Shame you lost that balance at the end though you firmed up that front stance pretty fast. Beckys kanku was quite decent. Good tries all around. I suppose the lesson is that the judges are going to spot the differences or weaknesses much more in kata they are used to seeing. In addition they were open minded enough to score on general power, strength of techniques, in the TSDo kata they hadnt seen, where all three of you looked (not surprisingly) much more natural in. Congratulations and hats off to you all.
I recall entering Shotokan tournaments that were 'open' to other styles, quite a few years ago now, when I was doing Shito ryu, and not seeing any tolerance to anything out of the norm, either in kata or kumite. (It seemed as if you were two points behind even at the start of a fight or kata performance). So congratulations also to the integrity and openness of the Shotokan organisers and judges there too!
Right?! 2 medals and next time 6! I know I was soooo upset I lost my balance, right when I did I knew I wasn't going to win. That last jump was tough for me and the mats are extremely firm so there was zero give and no grip. I asked the head judge what she thought and she told me if I didn't lose my balance and if my back stances had the heels in a line and if i didnt breathe as loud she would have voted for me. Lessons to remember for next time...
I wanted to ask one of the judges that did vote for me in my TSD form what they thought about it, but I couldn't find them after I was finished.
Thank you so much and I am thankful to the shotokan judges for being open minded as well.
In many ways, Tang Soo Do is closer to Shotokan's Okinawan origins than Shotokan is itself. Funakoshi's original vision was changed dramatically by his students in Japan. They made Shotokan a lot more linear by incorporating principles of Kendo. In some ways this was good, and in some ways it made the original system insufficient. Keep doing what you have been!
Daniel Reid thank you for your insight. I’m never knew that.
I guess the judges don't like fast katas. They only like people performing at grandma speeds. Katas were meant for more than mere dancing. Having people perform katas like this erodes there usefulness. It trains you to move at turtle speeds, no wonder people have a hard time making katas work, they don't train to do it fast enough. Either way, good video and well done on your forms. Even if the judges don't appreciate you talent and skill.
Tang soo do kata and shotokan kata have the same root
Agreed!
Tang Soo Do forms are very unique
Thank you, just like you!
No sparring?
Nope, not this time. Shotokan has a lot of rules about sparring, more than we do.
You have to spar full contact. There is no other way to go around it. There is no substitute for full contact. When won local Jiu-Jitsu competitions, they were full contact. Even though it was purely grappling, I had a dose of what full contact is.
No offense, but how is this relevant to the video at all? They were competing in forms in a tournament to experience a different art and see how they could do against actual practitioners of that art. Don't diminish their achievements.
Thank you for your reply Silamoth. I don't mean to be rude or offensive in any type or form my brother. My brother, my only intention is that I too am a Tang Soo Do practitioner and have been teaching for the past 8 years. My only intention is to promote what works and what does NOT work. You see, many Tang Soo Do schools do not participate in nor practice full-contact sparring. They all did a great job and were very successful in performing their forms. Many blessings my brother. Also, incorporate some Jiu-Jitsu and Muay Thai in your Tang Soo Do training. Blessings my brother.
Never really being a fan of the Kata's well done all three of you, looked to be a few foot faults on both the shotokan, and TSD, but this is also coming from a person who doesn't know either art, so take any critiques with a grain of salt. When pressure is on, having only a few foot faults... psh, my hat is off to you all.
Thank you so much. I don't want to make any excuses here but that puzzle mat... Thing was stiffffff, zero give. We train on a mat that we can grip our toes into a little bit, but this one , no give.
I wish we could have trained on those mats more, to get used to it, I felt like I kept bouncing off it with each step.
Thank you for your critiques, they are much appreciated.
Honestly as a regular competitor in wkf kata competition I was impressed by your efforts, but there are many flaws to be worked on, generally they fall into balance, sloppy stances and technical errors. The reason u lost is u had 2 minor fouls and 1 major foul for getting a move in a kata is an instant disqualification as is forgetting to bow at the beginning and end of the kata. Better luck next time
Which move did I forget and when did I not bow?
@@SenseiIchi the bow was just an example sorry for the confusion, and the one u missed was the second kick at 2:54 and 1 of the minors was the stumble as u landed it could just be the angle of the video tho.
All in all u should be happy with your performance it was very good considering how quickly u had to unlearn alot of habits, which is no easy task 🙂
Ahh I see. Yes, I was struggling with that in practice. Plus when I was a little nervous my legs became a little gummy, so i didnt stick that landing. I was pretty upset with that, right when I lost my balance, I knew I had lost.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I'm going to keep training, work on the Shotokan basics / timing and come back next year better, stronger and more Shotokan like.
Need to compete sparring lol. To test your skills
I spar all the time, you're just never around to watch me anymore Dad!!
The f is this?! So you compete by doing some moves instead of fighting someone? How do you know if your shit works?
Cuz I add a healthy amount of fiber to my diet.
I am tang soo do student...no need to show your colour...u must know how to fight...
Thigger Wolf What do you do with all that extra time you saved from not having to spell out YOU?
@@SenseiIchi I'm sorry...sensei Ichi.
It's ok, I still like you.
Whose the black guy with straight hair? He’s black just like me...LOL
hahah who? Dhruv? He's Indian
Sensei Ichi Indian??? Look how dark he is. He looks black to me. He’s a really good guy.
Sensei Ichi Can he rap?
Poor stances
Wait till they get a job and get back on their feet, they'll be rich stances soon enough my friend.
@@SenseiIchi I think this is the biggest problem right now probably tang soo do doesn't require strong stances but they are all very brave to me because they decided to compete in other style not everyone has enough courage
Oh we require strong stances. Thank you, I appreciate your comments and you watching.