Great video! I was scratching my head with that fault, did not realise you hadn't changed the voltage breaker. lol. Tiredness is a killer. Well done, I have a proper love hate relationship with fault finding, can be so frustrating but the relief of finding the problem is worth it.
Old VO ELCB should have been wired with separate earths, one with reference to the stake, and the other to the installation. Looks like on the video that these are connected together in the earth block. It would not trip. The voltage may have been from the internal coil, when the test button is operated, mains voltage is applied to one side of the coil, back to earth. If faulty/stuck test button then voltage at main earth terminal. Good job you didn't start removing the cpc's from earth terminal.😮
Hi Nick just seen the vlog and the moment I spotted that voltage operated circuit breaker as your main switch I knew that was the source of your trouble suspect it is leaking to earth as the baker lite is breaking down. Last one I fitted was 50 years ago. These VOELB breakers where stopped being used 40 years ago. Definitely a fail code 2 on the EICR
as soon as I spotted the yellow button I said oh that's it, John Ward has a video on the subject of those nuisances. I totally understand him being tired and out of his mind trying to figure out what's going on.
i also have no idea why a board was fitted including a rcd and the old ELCB left installed makes no sense apart from not being able to isolate the tails. if i remember correctly ELCB worked on voltage fault detection between cpcs or metalwork compared to earth rod voltage a rise in voltage difference would cause ELCB to trip before 50v difference reached. this could result in uneccesary tripping due to faults on neighbouring properties raising earth rod voltages
The old voltage operated ELCB, can put a voltage on to the earthing conductor usually 50to120 volts that’s why they should be removed when you come across then ! 👍🏾
It would have been interesting to break the old DP switch open to see what may have broken down. Was OK in the past so what changed? Great video. I was there with you trying to help 🙂
Hi, when i was an apartness many years ago EARTH LEAKAGE TRIPS HAD JUST BEEN INTRODUSED. There are two earth terminal on the bottom, one for connecting to the main earth in the consumer unit. The other one that went to the earth spik (what was it for). Inside the unit is a very large coil for detecting the fault and for tripping the unit OFF. The back EMF voltage from the coil was around 50,000V so that went to earth to dissipate the spike. If there was a second unit within 20Meters it would trip that one of as well,
Mate go with your gut isolate anything from the original board which was the piggy back but ultimately 2 rcd so. One system does t work so to save all that you could of put the main switch in first But it’s good for content Great videos Coming from spark who’s been doing domestic over 25 years If you get any tenanted rewires pass them over to me that’s what I specialise in Cheers Paul
Bloody good job buddy: To be honest I see those old ELCB's in a property with a weird fault & the ELCB is gone out the door, but that's due to prejudice and past bad experience. Considering how knackered you were I don't think you did that bad, don't beat yourself up about it. I bet your prejudice levels towards ELCB's is right up there along with mine now, and it's not something your ever going to forget 😁.
As soon as you said "voltage operated ELCB" I thought Oh Oh!!! (But then I am a LOT older than you Nick 🙂) Yep I've come across these and know they can produce all kind of errors and sometimes get exteeemely hot.
Have seen the 2 terminals in an ELCB with conductors reversed ( old green type). . think theres a letter F. at the bottom . stands for frame , i think ....and maybe a letter E . There were very well made , in those days //// but but what was the fault
I don't think you could say that 3 phase D.B. change was a disaster the door needs redesigning a board like that would normally let you put 6-inch trunking around it you look at the Eaton board for example the door does not hinge open past the footprint of the D.B. That fault I was expecting a N-E fault would not think the device prior to the RCD would cause it to trip.
Loved this, buddy, Been a sparks since 09, got a call out last week, bloke says no sockets , no idea. Gets there, old rewire able board, pop new wire in ....BOOM!. Ah! Think we have problem. Said to him, got a garage? Err yup, went garage shit electrics, interior fluorescent fittings, no IP rating. .....mmmmm, went back to board disconnected unidentifiable 2.5 t + e, new fuse wire perfect! In house 18 minutes, £45 please. So the total opposite of yours, lady luck can be cruel!😢
That doesn't make any sense at all, there is nothing in the ELCB that could trip the RCD. Clearly there was a short or at least a leakage path between the house Neutral and Earth. Neutral is common to all the circuits so any MCB that has any load current and is switched on will cause the RCD to trip. The house Neutral, ie after the RCD, doesn't go anywhere near the ELCB so it can't be anything to do with the fault. Whatever the fault was you probably cleared it by disconnecting and reconnecting wires.
You ought to send that dodgy old part off to Big Clive for a teardown to see why the fault occurred
Don't chuck it in the skip - give it to David Savery for him to take apart and figure what was wrong with it!
Or Big Clive!
Great video! I was scratching my head with that fault, did not realise you hadn't changed the voltage breaker. lol. Tiredness is a killer. Well done, I have a proper love hate relationship with fault finding, can be so frustrating but the relief of finding the problem is worth it.
Old VO ELCB should have been wired with separate earths, one with reference to the stake, and the other to the installation. Looks like on the video that these are connected together in the earth block. It would not trip. The voltage may have been from the internal coil, when the test button is operated, mains voltage is applied to one side of the coil, back to earth. If faulty/stuck test button then voltage at main earth terminal.
Good job you didn't start removing the cpc's from earth terminal.😮
Hi Nick just seen the vlog and the moment I spotted that voltage operated circuit breaker as your main switch I knew that was the source of your trouble suspect it is leaking to earth as the baker lite is breaking down. Last one I fitted was 50 years ago. These VOELB breakers where stopped being used 40 years ago. Definitely a fail code 2 on the EICR
as soon as I spotted the yellow button I said oh that's it, John Ward has a video on the subject of those nuisances. I totally understand him being tired and out of his mind trying to figure out what's going on.
i also have no idea why a board was fitted including a rcd and the old ELCB left installed makes no sense apart from not being able to isolate the tails.
if i remember correctly ELCB worked on voltage fault detection between cpcs or metalwork compared to earth rod voltage a rise in voltage difference would cause ELCB to trip before 50v difference reached. this could result in uneccesary tripping due to faults on neighbouring properties raising earth rod voltages
i can feel your pain man.. after a night like that.. horrible... at least you fixed it.. lucky he's getting a rewire done.. thing is a mess
Well done mate for not giving up 👍👍👍
nice that you sorted it, felt the frustration for you
The old voltage operated ELCB, can put a voltage on to the earthing conductor usually 50to120 volts that’s why they should be removed when you come across then ! 👍🏾
Hi nick the dreaded early hours change over every sparkies nightmare
Great video, that ELCB must be 50+ years old, installed on TT systems before any residual protection available in the consumer units😮
It would have been interesting to break the old DP switch open to see what may have broken down. Was OK in the past so what changed? Great video. I was there with you trying to help 🙂
Hi, when i was an apartness many years ago EARTH LEAKAGE TRIPS HAD JUST BEEN INTRODUSED. There are two earth terminal on the bottom, one for connecting to the main earth in the consumer unit. The other one that went to the earth spik (what was it for). Inside the unit is a very large coil for detecting the fault and for tripping the unit OFF. The back EMF voltage from the coil was around 50,000V so that went to earth to dissipate the spike. If there was a second unit within 20Meters it would trip that one of as well,
Strange how some things are difficult to find. I remember first experiencing back feeds.. Well done love the persistence.
When you said “You’re not gonna like it” I thought you were going to get the Kopex out the van 😂😂😂
Great job Nick and even greater that you take the trouble to share these faults 👍
Good find there Nick, I’ll defo keep this situation in mind 👍🏻👍🏻
Nice bit of perseverance Nick, especially as it was upstream of the rcd you’d initially think it was ok.
top job, stuck test button contact in the VOELCB I am guessing.
Mate go with your gut isolate anything from the original board which was the piggy back but ultimately 2 rcd so. One system does t work so to save all that you could of put the main switch in first
But it’s good for content
Great videos
Coming from spark who’s been doing domestic over 25 years
If you get any tenanted rewires pass them over to me that’s what I specialise in
Cheers
Paul
Well done, excellent find. 👍👍👍
Good fault finding skills. There's an art to fault finding in all trades. Experience plays a big part in it.
Bloody good job buddy: To be honest I see those old ELCB's in a property with a weird fault & the ELCB is gone out the door, but that's due to prejudice and past bad experience.
Considering how knackered you were I don't think you did that bad, don't beat yourself up about it. I bet your prejudice levels towards ELCB's is right up there along with mine now, and it's not something your ever going to forget 😁.
As soon as you said "voltage operated ELCB" I thought Oh Oh!!! (But then I am a LOT older than you Nick 🙂) Yep I've come across these and know they can produce all kind of errors and sometimes get exteeemely hot.
Have seen the 2 terminals in an ELCB with conductors reversed ( old green type). . think theres a letter F. at the bottom . stands for frame , i think ....and maybe a letter E . There were very well made , in those days //// but but what was the fault
Old ELCB..
Wonderful idea 60 years ago,... Today however, it's a get rid of asap.
Good video and find Nic, that was a bastard..
If you come to inspect anything with those isolators do not press the yellow button or else😂
Van vault, have you tried WD40 and oil on the runners and made sure there is no drill bit etc sticking through the sides?
Those Hager boards with the square knockouts... Why?! Such a pain in the arse.
Poor Nick! At least it getting ripped out 👍
Seen the same sort of voltage issues inside a heat pump caused by a "wet" isolator.
I feel for you, Nick. The important thing is you figured it out in the end. Get some rest. Lock your daughter in the garage. 🤣🤣🤣
Them armed beavers are amazing
I don't think you could say that 3 phase D.B. change was a disaster the door needs redesigning a board like that would normally let you put 6-inch trunking around it you look at the Eaton board for example the door does not hinge open past the footprint of the D.B. That fault I was expecting a N-E fault would not think the device prior to the RCD would cause it to trip.
I think you should have called in David Savery
Sure those are 120mm² tails? 5x bigger than 25mm tails? Looks more like 35mm or 50mm
Yea, they look a bit smaller than the 75mm² uninsulated wires I have, unless the camera makes them look way smaller.
Great video Nick pull your hair out time 😂😅😊
Well done jobs like that are awful it starts to drive you around the bend still you did it
No easy, much better when not my yourself!
Great video mate
Loved this, buddy, Been a sparks since 09, got a call out last week, bloke says no sockets , no idea. Gets there, old rewire able board, pop new wire in ....BOOM!. Ah! Think we have problem. Said to him, got a garage? Err yup, went garage shit electrics, interior fluorescent fittings, no IP rating. .....mmmmm, went back to board disconnected unidentifiable 2.5 t + e, new fuse wire perfect! In house 18 minutes, £45 please. So the total opposite of yours, lady luck can be cruel!😢
Boom 45 quid… give over lad
@@ljtr2112 ?? No London pricing here...
Nick I think the van vault draw is getting stuck on one of the bolts take it out and tighten it’s happened to me
That's why we don't use 1P mcb but 1P+N mcb
I feel ya. I spent 4 days fault finding a Gas Chromatograph a couple of weeks ago.
4 days?
Oh no nick @!!!@!! John ward will haunt you now for throwing it in skip. He would of had it 😂
Brilliant 🙂🇮🇪☘️
Voltage operated circuit breaker
Is it a crossed neutral ( one that should be on the other side of the RCD?
Was the old earth leakage causing the neutral to float on the load side?
I don't know how you do it for the money.
Put that mess in to one board 😂
Get a cable thumper it'll soon show that fault ;-)
I’m in Stoke! Let me know if you want any help this way. 👍💡
Have you got any old veto bags you don’t want/need?
Only the Danny De one
Why would he have a Veto bag when he uses Velocity ones.
@@robinhadley didn’t realise you know exactly how many bags he has and exactly what brands. your life sounds fun
What safety boots do you have on mate
see his amazon link in desc
Very well insulated ones⚡️😉
What's going on with Adam? Not seen any videos lately..
Yeah i loved this as well! Nightmare
That doesn't make any sense at all, there is nothing in the ELCB that could trip the RCD. Clearly there was a short or at least a leakage path between the house Neutral and Earth. Neutral is common to all the circuits so any MCB that has any load current and is switched on will cause the RCD to trip. The house Neutral, ie after the RCD, doesn't go anywhere near the ELCB so it can't be anything to do with the fault. Whatever the fault was you probably cleared it by disconnecting and reconnecting wires.
Just what you want after a night shift 😂
Or it’s coming up the TT spike
It’s a shower short circuit.
And breath......!
some live working there chaps.
fingers lucky to be together
nice
👍👍👍👍
hahaha nice work
Monster is poison. Aas you probably know.
I’m sure the logo is demonic as well?