Shibboleth - West Wing
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2014
- This is two scenes from the West Wing, Season 2, Ep. 8, "Shibboleth," in which President Bartlet explains to his staff what "shibboleth" means, and then when he meets a Christian Chinese refugee, of whom he asks a test of faith.
No copyright infringement intended. I do not own the right to this. Used for educational purposes in religious studies classes. - Розваги
I’m an atheist who gets teary eyed at this scene.
It’s all about humanity and compassion. It’s so elegant and emotional.
I like you, had the same response. Wonderful scene within an excellent series.
Amen.
Same here. I'm not religious at all but I love when Bartlett talks about faith because it's such a shining example of his humanity and compassion, without being dogmatic or forcing it on anyone else.
I'm an atheist whose eyes dampen over this scene also. Whatever these people are or aren't, they are Christian, and in America, that entitles them to certain rights. The fact that they themselves aren't American doesn't completely mitigate those rights.
The actor playing the refugee did a really good job delivering his lines. At first, the answers he gives sound as though they are memorized but then he breaks into proving his faith is not false. Really great writing by Sorkin and acting.
no john, the president intension was to get him to say Shibobleth!! he used his caracter his position and secured the path of the conversation. testing him on the apostels. wel not realy testing..it felt it right away as there was a close up of sheen..this man is gonna say shibboleth..
i mean this series shows some great acting
@@renevanwijk9653 omg rene si coreckt 100^*(
@@renevanwijk9653 he is talking about the subtle nuance written into the script and how well it is brought to light by the actor. Sorkin is all about rhythm, cadence even in the most subtle passages. The refugee gave President Bartlet the initial answers as rote because that is how Sorkin wrote it and it is what we were led to expect during the prior exchange with staff. When the refugee shifted from subserviently answering questions from the man who would decide his fate, to boldly asserting his faith...speaking truth to power, he was transformed from a simple refugee to the spokesman for religious injustice.
It was a powerful scene, executed flawlessly by the cast.
@@kwilsonjr well all things beside..he made the scene, like "the newsroom Scene" pilot It just hits ya
@@renevanwijk9653 don’t change the subject when you lost an argument
This clip is one of countless reasons why The West Wing is the best scripted television show I'll ever see.
Watch Newsroom, Studio 64. Aaron Sorkin is a genius.
If this was non-scripted it would be even more amazing
@@SweKingdom non-scripted is just reality TV. We've already seen what happens when you put reality TV stars in charge.
@@curtiswhalen9506 My exact first thought. I had to go and make sure I had the right name for the show. Network. Went and used Google and noticed Sorkin produced that one too. Not really a surprise. But it did suggest I should go and research Sorkin to see what other shows he produced to find something else great to watch.
@@curtiswhalen9506 I've watched almost everything Sorkin has ever produced and you're exactly right. He is a genius.
The boys are having a Biblical and refugee discussion while Claudia Jean is having a nightmare with a turkey.
All while Charlie is wondering how to accidentally kill the president with a carving knife.
@@georgehoyle8797 Well, the windows _are_ bullet proof glass. If Charlie wants to kill the President, he's going to have to do it from inside the building...
Sounds like another Tuesday at WW.
Watching the unfolding events in Hong Kong over the last few weeks and the promises from several nations to accept Chinese nationals fleeing the country, this feels especially powerful.
Great scene. Not sure if Bartlet's questions were intentionally "missing the point" in order to provoke the Chinese Christian into calling out Bartlet's questions for being irrelevant because "faith is the true Shibboleth". If so, genius play by Bartlet!
I would give Bartlet credit for this one. He was supposed to be a genius and it got in his way quite a few times. Even on occaision where faith - his faith - was being tested.
I think it’s credit to the show from the beginning that he’s not the perfect politician/ person . He shows flaws but damn with help if great scripts delivers powerful scenes.
I kept screaming at Bartlet to make up his damn mind about the knives.
+Rudy Juarez Bartlet likes to wind people up pretty good before he drops some love bombs on 'em.
Ew. I didn't mean that how it sounds.
+Rudy Juarez Yup. There is a great scene where Charlie comes back from shopping and says to Mrs. Landingham "I think I got it this time." She's like "Oh don't get your hopes up dear.
@@antourte1 Oh so true and Bartlett drops a big Boston one on Charlie.
Yeah, except it was just a way to screw with Charlie and set up the perfect occasion to give him the knife made by Paul Revere.
@@pbdye1607yeah, he knew exactly what he was doing from the get-go.
I’d say that President Bartlet wanted to gently impress upon Charlie how much he values him, not in a smart-Alec way, but lovingly.
He really considered Charlie to be his son ❤️
I had to write a paper on computer security in college, and I used the story in Judges to illustrate that using something to prove membership in a group didn't start with the computer age--that the concept was thousands of years old. I just happened to see this scene while I was working on the paper, and that's what gave me the idea.
+RetroGuy76 I used it as evidence for the premise that proving your identity to a "gatekeeper" (back then an actual guard, now it's security software) is really an ancient concept, and not some new-fangled idea that IT people came up with to make users lives miserable.
And I got an "A" on the paper
***** Thank you. My instructor liked it as well. His quote was "It's not every day that an IT paper uses a legitimate Old Testament reference."
One of the marks of intelligence is being open to inspiration, from whatever source it might come from. When I was in college, I picked up on an idea from the original Star Trek. It was something I already knew, but it was something that I had forgotten. John Milton's - "It's better to rule in hell than to serve in Heaven". It served the point of my paper well. But, my professor made a note in the paper that essentially accused me of plagiarism. I won the battle, but still got a B on the paper. Best wishes, Ted
its odd we cam from hard to pronounce words to large prime numbers.
I'm not gonna lie, that's pretty neat.
Very powerful scene...as were many during the run of The West Wing.....STILL one of THEE Best TV Shows....EVER. ....Cheers All
This was a great episode. I have been re-watching the series and this episode really stood out from the rest. It could quite possibly be one of the best television episodes I've seen. It doesn't have the flash of many modern shows like Breaking Bad but the different threads following the same theme are woven together very skillfully. I'm not even religious and the Shibboleth scene gets me emotional.
The ability of this show, under Sorokin especially to generate these kinds of moments is one of life's great joys for myself.
A lot of scenes get me but this one gives me goosebumps every time
Notice how Sheen puts his hands in his pockets once he’s made the decision. This gesture is before its pointed out in the end of season 2 by the young Doris that’s Bartlett’s tell, that he’s made up his mind to do something.
Dolores*, but sharp eye noticing that.
I miss this show so much...
For anyone wondering why he only said 10 names when there are 12 disciples, there are two James and two Judas.
Imagine being the other Judas after all that went down.
@@323guiltyspark ‘who did it!?’
‘Judas!’
‘GET HIM!!!’
‘NO! THE OTHER JUDAS!!!!’
*Other Judas while nursing a black eye* ‘For God’s sake Peter!’
If any one wants to know what real Christianity is, the Chinese guy explained it perfectly.
Or rather, whoever wrote his lines.
St. Paul?
@liverpoollishgirl No need for a synopsis. I've read both the King James and the Douay-Rheims cover to cover. Have you? I've also read the Book of Thomas, the Analects , the Gita, much of the Quran and the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius. Have you? Oh, and all 613 Mitzvot. I'm sure you've read those and practice them.
@@wholeNwon lol a person from liverpool who knows how to read...that's quaint
and that would a Jew....like pretty much everything about Christianity....actually
@b1itsjustme Yes, but he's smart enough to know that not all christians are terrible people. Some of them do want to live a representation of their faith with christ-like behavior, through charity and good deeds. Sorkin's cool like that.
I loved this show!! Shibboleth indeed!!
The entire framework of having a particular lexicon is why we have to pay lawyers so much darn money.
One of the best moments of the whole series, IMO.
Yeah, even as an Atheist, I found this scene very touching.
Because of these clips it's one West Wing episode per day for me!
I ain’t no Christian, but that was beautiful.
same here, on both counts.
I'm 67 years old. I was a Sunday school teacher, never missed a service early in my life and have been told I know more about the Bible than most preachers. I would have never been granted asylum. In all my studying of God's Word, I never heard about shibboleth. Thank you, West Wing writers. I learned something I've never heard in a sermon. Bartlett can quote the Bible better than the sanctimonious characters who cherry pick the scriptures to fit their agenda.
I have always been fascinated by how selective the teaching of the bible is from group to group. In my experience "Angry Athiests" tend to be word perfect on the bloodbath sections of the old testament that most practicing Christians have never heard of.
This scene is tremendous!
I can't help noticing no one ate any of the sandwiches.
At least Fitzwallace took a bite out of the Danish pastry (scene on gays in the military)
In another ep Ainslie Hayes demolished one set of Democratic lawmakers when Sam brought her along to a meeting as his backup - then completely nixed the positive impression she had made by clearing all the leftover muffins off the table
Wonderful laura innes directed this episode
Seriously I’m pretty Red blooded Republican in leanings but I’d take Bartlet in a heartbeat. What I’d like is another show like this where both sides are portrayed fairly.
The West Wing was great like that. There were intelligent, well-spoken and well-mannered Republicans, and there were brash, obnoxious and corrupt Democrats. It went to show that it wasn't about what side you were on, it was about whether you bought into the Washington mindset or not.
DalleDayul Well said. I miss this show!
Thanks for the laugh.
It does bother me slightly that we're often shown to be the villains, but I enjoy the show.
@@erosson27 Not villians, the opposition. The Republicans in the West Wing are merely the opposition to the Democrats in the White House. The villians are foreign actors and obstructionists in both parties who block the work of the president and congress for the sake of blocking it rather than reasonable objections.
A beautiful scene.
Beautiful writing...
I think this actor was also in The Sopranos episode "Join the Club" as one of the monks who confront Kevin Finnerty. Something, something, varsity athlete.
i would take 1 sandwich when i leave and say ive never had one from the white house before...
This is still one of the best moments in scripted television history IMO
I was waiting for Jed to tell Leo get this man a case of bibles
A little too much plot armor that he happened to say the exact word. It was like the scene with lord john marburry where the Prez cant remember a quote and lord john just rolls it off with barely a clue.
How freaking intimidating must it have been to go from being a refugee fleeing religious persecution in China, to sitting in the Oval Office with the President of the United States. I'm not sure I would have remembered my own name...
When Sicily revolted against French Rule, French soldiers began to dress as civilians. Therefore, each person Sicilians met was asked to say one word "cicere" ( chickpea). The French didn't know how to pronounce it.
Is that the basis for the opera "The Sicilian Vespers"(based on events in Sicily in 1282)?
www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art261.htm
or
www.britannica.com/event/Sicilian-Vespers
And marines invading japanese held islands had the password phrase “Lilly lolly lollipop”
Love this moment othrww
This scene is so good it brings tears to my eyes. And I'm an atheist.
And me as well. It is not the religion that I admire, but the genuine morality of many of the people who practice it. My objections are mostly limited to treating the mythology of the religion as factual history or science.
That was so nice....
Very ironic that the ads on both ends of this video are for Shen Yun, a group that is also persecuted in China.
If only we had politicians this intelligent and respectful.
The acting is great! The Chinese guy appears robotic, seems like performing. But gradually become natural. I thought he is faking and then discovered he is not.
I love this clip, but I can't help but think about that whole plate of sandwiches that doesn't get touched. What happens to it?!
Amen!
the lick
Okay. So the brilliance of this to me is that Bartlett has been established as a Catholic, which means that he sees faith as also being established by works, and the refugee quoted a verse that has always been used as a counter to that argument, but in addition to the shibboleth comment, this obviously still moved him to agree with their point.
Many Catholics would probably argue that saving faith does come from God, but works are necessary to sustain it/minimize your time in purgatory. Few would say that the totality of your salvation comes from your works. Certainly Bartlet's version doesn't seem to incorporate that.
Works are evidence of the presence of faith but do not create it - just like a heartbeat is evidence of life but is impossible without brain activity. I'm amazed this is still a matter of contgroversy,
one of the greatest series that was on tv. and i hate politics!
Bartlett for President 2020
No one ever gets to eat in the presence of the President
Yes it is, my brother in Christ yes it is 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
If this happens today there’d be a bad joke and international incident.
Oh, I don't see this meeting happening in Trumps Oval Office.
Bartlett: Well, shib.
While the main focus is about faith and religion, I feel that there's an even deeper message in this, once that puts Bartlett in his place.
*President Bartlett:* Can you name any of Jesus' disciples? If you can't, that's okay. I usually can't remember the names of my kids, or for that matter...
*Jhin-Wei:* Peter, Andrew, John, Phillip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, Thaddeus, Simon, Judas and James. Mr. President, Christianity is not demonstrated through a recitation of facts. You're seeking evidence of faith, a wholehearted acceptance of God's promise for a better world. 'For we hold that man is justified by faith alone' is what St. Paul said. 'Justified by faith alone.' Faith is the true... uh, I'm trying to... shibboleth. Faith is the true shibboleth.
Bartlett is an extremely intelligent man, an educated man with decades of studying under some of the greatest learning institutions in the world. He is proud that he is smart, that he's a brainiac, and he looks down on people who would throw an education away willingly.
However, this was a perfect lesson for him that not everything in life, especially the most important and powerful things, has to be understood rigorously, to be identified and known.
Bartlett may know the Bible inside and out, but Jhin-Wei's belief, anyone's belief, is no less than his if they have faith.
Thankfully, he realizes that at the end.
enjoyed this show very much although there were a few characters I did not care for that I thought brought the show down a level
Like Toby.
Oh. IMDb. Thank you.
ive been born again 50 years and never heard the word
I like how this problem was resolved in the episode, with the very liberal Bartlett administration working with the same evangelical Christians he kicked out of the White House in the first episode.
the difference between them being that the Chinese people depicted here are actual Christians
Nope, not the same “Christians”: those guys were frauds, brandishing their supposed Faith as a political- power accumulating device: this Chinese gentleman was the real thing.
how did you put the subtitles on the video?
is that DVD version?
This video was taken from Netflix
'Fresh off the boat' and got to meet the POTUS. What better way to start off in America.
Great series, great writing, great acting and production...and this specific scene is the sadness that ...faith alone... will reap for society. This will be our downfall.
Wish they could have run the rest as to how this situation was resolved. It was very clever.
The president had the National Guard pull back and the refugees got to "escape" and stay in the US, it was done that way to help China save face.
Maybe him saying James once was a better shibboleth.
Was reading Judges Chapter 12 this morning...
Paul also said it in Ephesians 2:8-9. It doesn't get much clearer than that. It is a gift from God accepted by Faith alone, not by works, lest any man be able to boast about his Salvation on his own.
stop preaching
No you must also obey the ten commandments - Your salvation is death the true believer goes to heaven - Thats what it means - Since there's no hell murder's, rapist's and all those go to purgatory and there they stay in limbo cleansed but not pure enough to go to heaven
He always has Sandwiches and Coffee; yet no one ever gets to eat or drink.
For Myself I’d have both Coffee and Two Chocolate Biscuits: but I’m strange that way, no matter where I am or who I’m seeing.
Managing the continuity while actually eating is too difficult, unless you are fake-eating nuts or jellybeans. Furthermore, after a few takes, no one wants to eat any more food.
the preferred American administration the world should have had but never will, alas!
Someone ask Diaper don to name BOTH daughters
Diaper Don ?
I love it !
How do you practice???? In China very carefully
'Shibboleth Ba Saade'
This is spinach fought in the teeth schirboth
Metaphor for polar bears and sword the canary in the mine John has a long mustache the dice are on the carpet
And if you know, you know.
For all those getting inspired by the phrase "justified by faith alone" just remember that what ISIS says daily. It is fun to be impassioned, but don't start cooing for religious or moralistic superiority.
Martin Luther was not quoted by ISIS.
He must have been Reformed Baptist.
Wow wow, when was the West Wing on Netflix?
Its on right now.
*Depending on which country you live.
"For we hold that man is justified by faith alone..."
Stop preaching. People resent it; but you don't care about that, do you? It drives them away from the very thing you're preaching
If only we stand up to China like that now.
this show has the ability to heal so many wounds in society today I only wish Donald Trump would watch it I would send him the whole series on dvd
That requires he be both human and posess empathy. He is neither.
Nobody is going to eat a sandwich?
It's a trap. The guest was wise not to fall into it. You don't eat unless it's when the President is eating. The man sensed that the President wasn't going to be eating. Now if the President had offered tea that would be more difficult.
@@davidhoffman1278 But they are right there. And people who visit the White House are often sitting and waiting for a long time. Unless he had a big breakfast before coming he should have taken one.
Imposter sus
The fate of these refugees rested on a vibe check
Faith ALONE? I know Martin Luther said that. St Paul I'm not so sure about.
The citation Luther used as the basis for it was Romans 3:28
Glad you mention that. St. Paul most certainly did not say "alone", neither did Our Lord teach it.
Faith is the Shibboleth of a Christian indeed. But "alone" is the Shibboleth of Protestantism.
But I very much enjoyed this video.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of David, have mercy on Thy Church in China!
Happy Palm Sunday, and have a blessed Holy Week!
And the greatest of these is charity.
😅
God it’s shocking on how this rings in modern times. I mean crap the uighars and the Chinese government.
@mandellorian ummm this isn’t me playing a game this is me pointing out the similarities between the uighars and how similar this very situation on the show. It’s quite a dead ringer
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
No bibles ohhh okay mate, have one of mine, got a few to spare
Can we have a double like, thrice like, quadruple like button please?
Great idea!
He only named eleven apostles and he included Judas.
Judas was an apostle of Jesus.
Judas was indeed an apostle, in fact, the group's treasurer
Give that man citizenship!
@mandellorian Because he is worthy of asylum? because he is being persecuted for his faith, and that's what drove the pilgrims to america? because it's the decent thing to do?
If I remember correctly, Bartlet let’s them “escape” with blankets and food and has to convince China that a bunch of peace loving Christians overtook the worlds strongest army.
It’s one of the best episodes to describe religion as it should be practiced in relation to politics. Instead we have a bunch of Bible thumpers who use their God’s words to justify their impure actions.
Judges 12:6
Am I the only person who thinks asking a refugee to pronounce shibboleth in his/her second language is not a very good test?
Thagor 85 True, it isn’t...
But that wasn't the point. As Josh pointed out, often Chinese refugees would be coached to 'feign faith'. So it wasn't so much that the Chinese professor could pronounce 'shibboleth' correctly, but rather he understood both the concept, and the principal, behind it ... one can recite as many bibical verses as you may, but without understanding what they mean, that is just so much empty words ... the true 'shibboleth' was showing what his faith truly meant for him, and that was the test he passed.
Was he asked to use the word?
The whole scene is pretty horrible. What if nobody in the group was a highly educated, well spoken English-speaker. What if he had over-focused on demonstrating his factual knowledge because realistically, you don't really talk back to a person with that much power over you, you just try to please them.
Or for that matter, what if they were actually persecuted and in great danger for other reasons, but told pleading faith-based was their best bet and went with that.
EDIT: well I thought that's not how I remembered it, looked up the ending to the episode, and yeah, he gives a lovely little speech about how he wouldn't have sent them back anyway. It's really sweet, and also everything that's wrong with this vision of how government should function. No urgent need to change unjust structures, massive inequalities, give powerless people more rights - it'll be ok because the leader is a good and wise man.
Well, you could have just deleted you firs comment.
You completely missed the point.
Doubt the names were like those in Chinese
I assume they had English bibles. Since he speaks English anyway.
Why would the names change? Wen Ling would still be Wen Ling if he was the head of a parish in China or in Chad.
Faith... what the gullible use to justify belief... instead of actual evidence.
Ephraimites were Israelites though
How do you think Trump would handle this situation???
These Chinese refugees have the best churches, really they're the best, I've been to a few and they're just great.
Depends. How much money do they have to contribute to his campaign?
No sandwiches, only hamberders and covfefe.
Trump would say, "I don't think you're a true Christian. It's not 2nd Corinthians, it's two Corinthians."
Trump would admit them automatically and order them to stand up at public conventions to gain him points with evangelicals. He'd tout their asylum all over the airwaves and talk about how tough he was with China about it. If he did this at all, he'd probably be out-schooled by the Chinese Christian.
Faith folks not faith plus works. We are saved solely by the work of Christ on our behalf. His death and His resurrection are the works that save us. We receive our Savior by faith (John 1:12), through faith alone Acts 16:31; Romans 3:28; 4:5; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Ephesians 1:13; and Philippians 3:9.
Paul says those who have true faith in Jesus Christ will be “eager to do what is good” (Titus 2:14). To return to Ephesians 2, immediately after teaching that we are saved through faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul says that we were created “to do good works” (Ephesians 2:10). Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith, and that faith is made manifest in good works. The works follow the faith and are a proof of it.
Faining Faith
Niall MacGinnis RIP Jason and The Argonaut Zeus
That unfortunate Black and White Magic Practicer in the Night Of the Demon.
Nathaniel Graveling - Ship's Master, Rights of Man (as Niall McGinnis)
Johnny Nobody - with Nigel Patrick and Aldo Ray Defending Counsel Sullivan
Josh could have coached him.
Ach aye, that's what it's about, now, friends it's Muslims who aren't persecuted bloody liars by all means Shibboleth
Imagine a Democrat president that can, and does, quote the bible constantly.. They had dreams of a Bartlet, but got a BushObama.
almonious Or Yeah, because quoting scripture is a definite indication of... what...exactly? That fairly tale bullshit has no place in government and has had no globally positive effect on the way we interact or treat one another. there is nothing but division!
P.S. Both bush and Obama claim to be people of faith, or Christian, or what ever the latest PR acceptable title is.
I get what you're saying, although I'm not sure why quoting the bible is bad in itself. Why should it cause division? it is not as if we're trying to create a unified, uni-thought, humanity.. there is place for all.
I seem to recall Obama even hiring one of the writers.
almonious Or Its not that I feel quoting scripture is negative, its just that in ANY work environment, doing so does not take into consideration the possible differences in ideology of the other employees. Its just not the place to do it. I don't trust people who come across as too holier than thou anyway. And why should it cause division? because that is what religion has done, and its common knowledge to anyone paying attention. I would also ask, who is the "we" with regard to your uni-thought humanity statement? If all people of faith did in fact hold their ideals above all else, then logic dictates that there would be more cohesion among them than there is. As far as the writer Obama allegedly hired, what does this person write? and why did you include him in your BushObama accusation if his hiring of said writer somehow exonerates him?
Religion didn't cause that, in my opinion. People caused that. People can take anything and create hell on earth with it.. just check Soviet communism, where religion was illegal.
Look how my original comment made you answer, I feel there is violence in your words, disqualification and destruction. What is BS about the scene in this clip?
If it makes you feel more at ease, he may quote a classic philosopher, or any book whose wisdom stood the test of times.
to say that people have failed to follow this or that, tells about the people, and no one is perfect. And even then, people did, do and will make mistakes. It is how they correct and improve that tests them, in my opinion.
almonious Or You seem to be struggling with the concept of cause and effect. Yes it is the people that are responsible for the division, but it is their belief systems incompatibility that is the catalyst. And the bullshit I was referring to had nothing to do with the clip, it was directed at religion in general.