Good man. I can almost promise you that if a 21 year old walked up and slapped $1100 on the table and said I want that Les Paul, the manager is not going to say Jack shit. Except thank you perhaps.
My understanding is that it's illegal to sell counterfeit guitars, whether you tell a prospective buyer or not. I bought a fake from China to see how bad or possibly good they were and within two weeks had it listed for sale as a fake clearly in the ad description. I was very surprised to get an email from Gibson's brand protection department inviting me to call them. They appreciated that I had listed it as fake but then cleared up the misconception that even saying it's fake isn't enough...the guitar has to be marked as a copy or tribute...ie: stamped into the body. When I called they wanted to know where I had purchased it from and what prompted me to buy it. They were more focused on stopping them from coming into the country and not trying to put the fear of god in me as some might do. I don't care what the China guitar fan club says about GIbson quality and price to justify their purchases, because these unregulated (read quality control) factories put out some really crap copies. However, brands such as Fender, Gretsch, etc that DO have Chinese manufacturing have more stringent quality control to protect the brand name and to bring a reasonably priced instrument to the consumer alongside their premiere line of gear. Most guitars can be made playable despite imperfections..but I've actually had a fake PRS come across my desk where the neck set was so bad I told the customer it would cost more than what he paid for the guitar to fix it.
As a business it is illegal to do. As an individual it is not illegal to create a copy for personal use or to "trick" an audience by playing it on stage in public. SELLING IT, however, & misrepresenting it to a buyer IS illegal & one could be sued for it in small claims court, but it may not be provable. A major point being the serial number as well as a bill of sale. If you I.D. it AS genuine, put a legit S.N. on a fake, with a price comparable to a real one you may lose in court. I make fake ones all the time, but I never put #`s on them nor do I try & make guitars to fool experts & I never pawn them. Mine are good at a glance, at a distance or to a non expert AND the ones I make are EXCELLENT Players guitars, but if they get damaged or stolen I`m only out hundreds instead of $1,000 or more. I DID buy a pawn shop guitar with no serial number which surprised me. I thought they wouldn`t buy one without a # much less sell it, but I snatched one up "for a song" confident in what it was even without the S.N. Thing is, now I want to put a # on it, but I`m torn whether it`s wrong to do? ...For what it`s worth, that one is a 32 year old Epi which I bought in Florida. A very, very nice guitar made by Samick in S. Korea. It`s like NEW & I really do feel like I STOLE IT, buying it @ $250!
Easiest way to spot a fake Gibson is too look at the frets and the headstock. If the fret job is good and there's no crack near the headstock join then it's 100% fake.
Wang Dao-fa I'm guessing your English comprehension isn't that great as it's obviously a humorous sarcastic comment which is why it was voted up, which would easily explain something you find "remarkable". Enjoy the rest of your day Wang! hahahahaha!
I understand that you do business at this pawn shop, but in light of the fact that the manager/owner had only marked it down to $1100 tells me, and everyone on here, that he's still selling it as a real Gibson. That piece of shit isnt worth $250. I believe that notifying the police would be the right course of action. He's knowingly selling a "Chibson" as the real deal.
I hope that you didn't take it as a slam. Not intended that way. I'm just getting sick of people knowingly trying to rip people off with these POS guitars. Of course there are sellers out there that think they have the real deal, so it's hard to fault them. Everything that comes out if China is just flat out, disposable junk, IMO.
Yeah, but except you can't do anything about it, i can sell what i want for the ammount i want, falsely labelling it, is something to correct, but what the fuck do you expect the police to do? Arrest him for being dishonest? Show me that law!
Zyx No it's not, not here certinly/. And no, you can sell whatever you like, for whatever you like. I can't believe you would answer two places, but double the wrong for you
I've seen three fake Gibson guitars in my local pawn shop. I told the manager and he didn't believe me. The biggest give away for me was how they played. A cactus would have been more comfortable to play.
I believe on the gov't website it is a federal crime to sell, trade or profit from the distribution of counterfeit items. That SOB who runs that shop should be shut down. In no way is it legal, whether you admit it's a fake or not, to sell an item without the permission of the owner, the inventor, the business or similar and certainly not sell an item made by someone that did not get permission to manufacturer another company's item or intellectual property.
The owner is trying to get back what he got screwed out of but he needs to just bend over and take it. If he gets nailed it's gonna cost him a lot more than what he lost on that guitar.
Awesome... I watched the vid you did on those guitars, thanks.. I'm a player that's starting a collection, and need to learn more about how to spot fakes.. Any more vids on this is greatly appreciated. Other brands as well, I do like my Fenders and Martins. Thanks again.
I saw the Les Paul Voodoo's at Guitar Center in 2012. They did an Explorer & Flying V Voodoo as well. Gibson is making them again as a limited run for $1400.
***** I have two real Les Paul's, and almost bought the Voodoo/Goth or whatever you want to call it from Guitar Center when they had them on close out sale. I was surprised to see them on the Gibson website as being back in a limited run production. They have a reddish color now, swamp ash body. To bad they didn't have the binding thought.
i missed out on so many deals over the years. new ones will come up eventually but i think people are more aware now so thye don't last long. you can instantly look up anything with a phone while your hands are on the item. I passed on icemen, US chicken head mockingbirds, ibanez artist, baretta. all 200-400 when i saw them. and of course all the strats and LP's under $500 before the boom.
Any suggestions for spotting a fake SGJ? It's already a less expensive Gibson model so I'm sure there are things done differently than more expensive Gibsons but what would be a telltale sign that it's a fake?
Well, it's unfair and I'm not justifying the pawn dealer, but if you plan to spend 1k+ on a guitar you probably should spend 5 minutes or so on google or youtube before buying.
Completely irrelevant. I just found $800 in your wallet and I thought it was mine. How naive can you be? They KNEW it was a fake piece of shit and they tried to sell it as a legitimate Gibson. This happens every fucking day. Unless you live in a town with less than 3,000 inbred people in it - do you REALLY think that pawn shop owners are that easily duped? Were you born yesterday?
LPPL123 Absolutly...besides, I thought any reputable pawn shop would have it checked out before they hand money over for it and re sell it...that Pawn Shop now has a valuable asset ...Kennis...Im sure he wouldn't mind getting a call saying.." Hey Kennis..some guy dropped off a Les Paul...could you check it out for us"...
I'm sure they knew exactly what it was and gave the poor fool $200 for it at best and are passing it off a the real deal. They know how to play the game.
I just today ran into the same exact scenario at a local pawn shop. I even told the store management about it and they could care less. Some buyer is going to get cheated - and they know it. I will never go back in that store again; just because of the lack of ethics. It wasn't even a good fake. The neck was horrible!
I used to work for Gibson, and a few years back, they actually got their hands on some of these fakes. Maybe 40 or 50 in total. We got them in and checked them out. For the most part, they were Epiphone quality instruments with a different, or modified headstock. Some were really nice quality, and hard to spot. 90% were easily spotted, and middle of the road, or poor quality. It is something to look out for. I have a friend who bought a fake one from a pawn shop. Great info here! Oh, and the Voodoo is an actual model. We did loads of them in the early 2000's.
You're most welcome! They do take that stuff seriously there, but I think they are more worried about trying to come up with fresh ideas for new products.
+Kennis Russell I think Gibson is doing that on purpose (not putting out videos to spot a fake). Hoping to sell Gibson parts that people will put in their Chibsons.
Dang. That is a rather unsettling story. On one hand, I feel for the shop, as they are likely going to lose their shirt on that guitar. BUT... this is what they do for a living. They know the risk and know that they need to be sure before paying a premium for anything.
Hi Kennis, Years back when eBay got started they only had $175 limit for Insurance if you got stung with a fake Gibson. I did. I paid $1600 for a Gibson custom used guitar and it looked good in the picture. When i received it I knew immediately it was a fake and took it to a very reputable music store Stutzman's Guitar Center in Rochester, NY. He checked it out and said it was fake and probably made in Japan. It had fake decals on it so it looks like the guy I bought it from put them on and not the manufacturer in Japan. eBay rep was not very good at helping me and talked to the crook who convinced him I was the scammer. I still have the fake guitar and play it as well. It sounds and feels great but nothing like the new one I bought new at Guitar Center. Even an ole Rockabilly Hall Of Famer can be Hood Winked so please be carefull and listen to Kennis and ole jerry E. Good job Kennis
My question is why didn't the fake get reported to Gibson ASAP? Gibson could then have a Cease and Desist issued, and slap the pawn shop with a big-assed fine!! Pawn shop owners and workers are extra slimy reprobates anyways; it would be a pleasure to report their illegal activities.
Kim Cornell selling it as used eliminates Gibsons legal claim, and until he actually sells it without disclosing that it is a fake, (which we know he won't disclose it) he hasn't broken the law. Sad, but true. There is a Pawn shop in Blue Springs, Mo selling an entry level 2004 Strat as a 50th Anniversary model on Reverb asking $999 for it! When I informed Reverb about this, they chose to do nothing. I have lost all respect, and trust in Reverb, and will only buy through them as a very last resort.
+CS B Sorry, but that's wrong. That guitar is a patent infringement and it literally has no right to exist in this country. Their purchase of it was illegal, whether they knew or not. Their possession of it is illegal, whether they know or not. Their sale of it is illegal, whether they know or not.
How much was the used voodoo? . i found what look like a 70ish blackbeauty in a pawnshop was wanting 3grand for it, i kept looking at it and i noticed the craftsmanship was way off compared to reissue and figured the gibson quality was off that year and passed, never once did i consider fake but now that i think about it was like never played this happened about 15yrs ago
Hearing this reminds me of one of those I believe they're about $600 Les Paul's they have kind of that raw finish and somebody changed the truss rod cover and put standard, so this pawn shop had it priced at what a used standard would run which they had it for about 900 bucks
I have a $2200 gibson les paul does price matter if it is fake or not? In my opinion it doesn't sound like as if it is $2200 coz the sound is crap and it pisses me off because i have p90 pickups
What an ass, that manager. Like he's really going to tell an unsuspecting customer it's a fake (for 1100 dollars... wtf). I would've gotten a friend in there after like a week and let him act interested in the fake and see if the manager would've told him. My guess is he wouldn't have. And then I would've called Gibson and let them know. It pisses me off really bad. I mean, what if someone has saved for a long time to finally get their Gibson LP and gets one of these instead. I know, for some of us it's easy to tell. But not so for everyone. Damn scumsuckers, knowingly selling fakes !!
There was a store in Seneca SC, that sold fakes. The owners name was Jimmy Rogers, may he R.I.P.. Jimmy had the same rap about informing the customer. He did not. He was eventually raided by the Feds who removed all of his fake Gibson and Gretsch guitars. He was threatened with jail time, but because of his physical condition he was spared.
Great video. I watched both of them. I would love to hear how it goes if you send a ghost shopper in there to try that guitar and work up a deal but obviously not buy it. I wonder if they'll say it's a fake?
I don't think you're even allowed to sell a fake Gibson even if you tell someone it's fake you are still selling a guitar with an illegal Gibson logo. besides that a chibson is worth 250-350. I would have told the pawnshop owner to writ down it was fake on the tag.
That is correct. It's against the law (and should be). I wouldn't pay 25 dollars for it... Actually, I would.. So I could smash and burn it. So no one will get duped.
To be honest $25 for a working guitar is an excellent opportunity to spread the love and give it away. Selling a counterfeit Gibson doesn't bother me at all, but selling it for that price without explaining that it is in fact fake certainly does.
Well thanks a lot for the info! Was planning myself to buy one of these expensive pieces of art but now I think I'm going to be more cautious about details, you know, just so I don't pay 6,000$ on something worth 800$ XD Another way to spot a fake Gibson is by looking at the headstock's angle. Real Gibsons have this 17 degrees bend as Epiphone's headstocks are only 12 degrees bent, which is easily noticeable if you compare both side-by-side. Anyways, have fun on busting fakes!
Maybe a good way to handle such a situation would be to say something like "I wouldn't want ya to run into any legal trouble, but you should know it's illegal to sell a fake without it being marked as one" It might be kind of awkward ., but how they handle it would be a good determination as to whether the place is worth doing business in future. The fact that he said he was going to tell the purchaser that it was fake (yet was too lazy or dishonest to take 30 seconds to mark the tag "fake") , seemed to me like he was just brushing you off and had no intention of doing so ...probably didn't want to take a thousand dollar hit on his bottom line, dishonestly trying to recoup some of the money he lost & pass on his mistake to someone else.... I wouldn't do any business there at all if someone like that was running the place. In fact, I'd probably write out an online review of the place mentioning what they had done if they don't address the issue. Seems like a lot of dirty shops like this out there -- just watched a youtuber from U.K. with the same exact circumstance, where the pawn shop just marked the price down to 1k and didn't appropriately handle it.
Lots of fake Gibson's with real serial #s on them too. I found one of kijiji with a les Paul with a real Gibson usa made serial # and the dude was said it was a fake selling it for $350.
I've bought two of them for around $350 each, so I think that's pretty accurate. However both of mine looked much more accurate and I guarantee sounded better than the one in the pawn shop you went to.
My Father in law got a $1000 Taylor for about $300, but he was friends with the guy who owned the pawn shop. But since then i have hoped to find a great Pawn Shop deal. unfortunately i live in a rural area and the shops around here mostly get all the knock off Stratocasters. not knock off as in trying to pass it as a Fender, but all those Fender Clones that have other names on them. about the Best thing i find around here is the occasional Squire. But awhile Back i found one that was a fairly Convincing fake Fender Telecaster. I had to watch some videos on how to spot a fake.
A while ago I was a court social worker and I was in court when a guy was being sentenced for hundreds of thousand dollars worth of burglary. A lot of the stuff was as new. Cash Converters paid him 15% of the new value of anything he took there and then put prices on the items at a bit over 1/2 new price, so if you say a genuine Gibson of a certain type is worth $3000 they'd have paid $450 for it (if they believed it was real) and then sold it for the $1800 they wanted here. I don't think they were fooled though. My guess is that they paid $250 for it, knowing it was fake, and tried to sell it as genuine. I won't even get into whether Cash Converters or any other pawn dealer give a damn if something's hot.
Anything over 1000 dollars they should run the serial number by gibson fender ect usually they will run it before they buy it or allow the loan to go thru
every time i watch these, i want to run down to a shop to check them out but then there are sooooo many things to look for now and the copies are getting better every day. It's so bad now that i will not be buying anything except a new one from an authorized dealer, or a used one from a shop that has extensive inventory and knowledge in gibsons.
+littlegoobie The (Chibson) copies are getting better for sure. But they never nail everything (from what I've seen). There are always a couple of things off. But I hear ya, littlegoobie.
Perhaps you could have sent a frie3nd into the pawn shop a few days later to enquire about buying it and seeing if the guy actually did tell him it was a fake. If he didn't you should have called the fraud squad!
Don't tell me they actually sold it marked as a real Gibson to $1K? IIRC that's illegal. If they did that, report them. It's scamming people selling that thing, probably isn't even worth $200
send somebody there who will act like they are trying to buy it. you can check if the seller does tell them that it is fake or not. 1100 for a fake Gibson? come on! worth like 110 probably.
Not all fake Gibsons are the same as the newer fakes keep getting closer to the real thing. I would be kicking myself to drop $1500 on a fake Gibson that is worth no more than $200.
Nowadays with E-bay and everything, you gotta be pretty desperate to sell a real Gibson to a pawnshop. Therefore, buying one in a pawnshop especially at that price, it's highly suspicious....
I owe you an apology, Kennis. I vented on you after seeing too many "self-appointed guitar guru wanabes" on the tube. Sorry....you DO know what you're talking about.
i personally can't deal with pawn shops, they always seem so predatory and hostile, i was told pawn shops have learned to re sell quality instruments online, ebay/reverb etc, i always assumed that pawn shops made their money in outrageous interest rates collected on their short term loans, exploiting the poorest american's .
Good on you for informing the pawn broker of his fake Gibson but his price reduction was clearly not enough. He wasn't going to inform any prospective customer that it was a fake and I'm not surprised. Pawn brokers profit from the misery of others so we shouldn't expect them to be honest in their dealings. I've never seen a pawn broker that didn't look sleazy they all have that look of dishonesty. Go to any hock shop and look at the poor miserable bastards who turn up on pension day to pay their interest so they don't lose their treasures, it will bring you to tears.
sounds to me like the guy is trying not to lose money. He probably has 800-900 in the guitar and doesn't want to do the honest thing and take a 600 dollar hit to sell it for the crap copy price it should fetch as a fake. So he tells you oh i will tell somebody that its fake, but I won't mark it? They probably spotted the fake gibson acoustic when the guy pawned or sold it to them, so they paid accordingly and marked accordingly. On the Goldtop, they got hosed and are likely trying to save face. If the authorities saw that, there could be consequences.
What drives this forgery is that people are willing to pay $1000+ just for the name on the headstock. I have two excellent far eastern Les Paul-style guitars which look and sound fantastic. They were dirt cheap but are not "fakes" nor "Chibsons" because the headstock is a slightly different shape and they are sold under brand names. Could I afford a real Les Paul? Yes. Do I want one? No. Same goes for Fender.
Listen, this is only my opinion, which doesn't count for much. I don't have a problem with someone buying a Chibson. Personally, I wouldn't and never will own one. It's when people try to pass them off for financial gain is where I have the problem. I purchased a junk Jackson Rhoads (still all maple body and neck) that I had painted pearl white with dark purple polka dots by one of the best painters in the U.S., had new Duncan S4 put in the bridge and Duncan Jazz pickups put in the neck, top quality pots, wiring, etc put into the body and even the headstock has the spot on hand lettered "Jackson" logo on it. Would I ever try to sell it as an authentic Jackson RR tribute guitar? Absolutely not. Even though it's a Jackson body, and built to exactly mimic Randy's white Jackson (although the paint job is different) it is NOT an authentic custom shop Jackson. Period.
Your video is a little confusing at the end. I had to watch it twice. If you miss the comparison explanation it sounds like you're admitting you were wrong and it was real.
I have the same model Les Paul Voodoo as the one in your video . Its correct . They have a interesting tone as the body is swamp ash so there a bit brighter than your standard Les Paul . I used a black marking pen to blackout that stupid looking red skull they have at the fifth fret , it looks a lot better . I brought mine from my local pawn shop real cheap
This is just one effect this crap has on our economy.thats why I would never ever ever support Chibson or anything remotely similar. Besides the fact that it steals companies, years of hard work, patents, intellectual property and name. It ruins their name! Plus there are so many ways this sucks. People will never know if store owners buy this crap direct and sell it as the real thing. They can always say - " oh, I didn't know thanks for pointing that out"
Have you seen Tokai guitars? They actually don't PRETEND to be Gibson but clearly make Gibson copies, legally. And they are better quality than real Gibsons.....and cheaper. Not that I'd buy one, I'm more a PRS or Ibanez guy. Anyway love your vids, only just found you on here. I find your voice quite soothing
Real Gibsons have real serial numbers that can be verified. So long that the Chinese dont use real serial numbers that correspond to manufactured guitars. Now that would be bad :(
Yep, as time goes on it is getting difficult to spot the fakes depending on who made them. This is why I have a real issue buying guitars off of eBay now a days. Just too risky.
His rhetoric is like "Trust me, I will do it. I am a honest man, honest man. I am the most honest man in history. The best honest man in history. Have you seen my approval ratings with previous customers? Highest in history, the highest."
Good man. I can almost promise you that if a 21 year old walked up and slapped $1100 on the table and said I want that Les Paul, the manager is not going to say Jack shit. Except thank you perhaps.
Shannon McDowell agreed
Definitely scumbags out there
Agree
Now you need to send a friend in undercover with a camera to see if the shop manager will let him buy it without telling him it's a fake.
My understanding is that it's illegal to sell counterfeit guitars, whether you tell a prospective buyer or not. I bought a fake from China to see how bad or possibly good they were and within two weeks had it listed for sale as a fake clearly in the ad description. I was very surprised to get an email from Gibson's brand protection department inviting me to call them. They appreciated that I had listed it as fake but then cleared up the misconception that even saying it's fake isn't enough...the guitar has to be marked as a copy or tribute...ie: stamped into the body. When I called they wanted to know where I had purchased it from and what prompted me to buy it. They were more focused on stopping them from coming into the country and not trying to put the fear of god in me as some might do. I don't care what the China guitar fan club says about GIbson quality and price to justify their purchases, because these unregulated (read quality control) factories put out some really crap copies. However, brands such as Fender, Gretsch, etc that DO have Chinese manufacturing have more stringent quality control to protect the brand name and to bring a reasonably priced instrument to the consumer alongside their premiere line of gear. Most guitars can be made playable despite imperfections..but I've actually had a fake PRS come across my desk where the neck set was so bad I told the customer it would cost more than what he paid for the guitar to fix it.
it is illegal to pawn a phony as well Pawn shops keep records they know who pawned it or sold it to them and can get the athorities involved
As a business it is illegal to do.
As an individual it is not illegal to create a copy for personal use or to "trick" an audience by playing it on stage in public.
SELLING IT, however, & misrepresenting it to a buyer IS illegal & one could be sued for it in small claims court, but it may not be provable.
A major point being the serial number as well as a bill of sale.
If you I.D. it AS genuine, put a legit S.N. on a fake, with a price comparable to a real one you may lose in court.
I make fake ones all the time, but I never put #`s on them nor do I try & make guitars to fool experts & I never pawn them.
Mine are good at a glance, at a distance or to a non expert AND the ones I make are EXCELLENT Players guitars, but if they get damaged or stolen I`m only out hundreds instead of $1,000 or more.
I DID buy a pawn shop guitar with no serial number which surprised me.
I thought they wouldn`t buy one without a # much less sell it, but I snatched one up "for a song" confident in what it was even without the S.N.
Thing is, now I want to put a # on it, but I`m torn whether it`s wrong to do?
...For what it`s worth, that one is a 32 year old Epi which I bought in Florida.
A very, very nice guitar made by Samick in S. Korea.
It`s like NEW & I really do feel like I STOLE IT, buying it @ $250!
Easiest way to spot a fake Gibson is too look at the frets and the headstock. If the fret job is good and there's no crack near the headstock join then it's 100% fake.
Headstock joint? You refer to the Gibson crack/break?
Yes, just a little joke though ;-D
Wang Dao-fa I'm guessing your English comprehension isn't that great as it's obviously a humorous sarcastic comment which is why it was voted up, which would easily explain something you find "remarkable". Enjoy the rest of your day Wang! hahahahaha!
MechaTerryNutkins you forgot if you look at it an the headstock don't break it's fake!
Wang Dao-fa lol stfu
I understand that you do business at this pawn shop, but in light of the fact that the manager/owner had only marked it down to $1100 tells me, and everyone on here, that he's still selling it as a real Gibson. That piece of shit isnt worth $250. I believe that notifying the police would be the right course of action. He's knowingly selling a "Chibson" as the real deal.
I hope that you didn't take it as a slam. Not intended that way. I'm just getting sick of people knowingly trying to rip people off with these POS guitars. Of course there are sellers out there that think they have the real deal, so it's hard to fault them. Everything that comes out if China is just flat out, disposable junk, IMO.
Yeah, but except you can't do anything about it, i can sell what i want for the ammount i want, falsely labelling it, is something to correct, but what the fuck do you expect the police to do? Arrest him for being dishonest?
Show me that law!
JokersWild45 Show me the law. You can't just say something stupid and expect others to prove whether your bullshit is true or not. Are you Trump?
It's highly illegal to my knowledge selling something fake as the real thing. So I hope you do that and get caught Nuhuhu with that kind of attitude.
Zyx No it's not, not here certinly/. And no, you can sell whatever you like, for whatever you like.
I can't believe you would answer two places, but double the wrong for you
I've seen three fake Gibson guitars in my local pawn shop. I told the manager and he didn't believe me. The biggest give away for me was how they played. A cactus would have been more comfortable to play.
That makes so much sense to call the manufacturer or look up a serial number, especially if you're investing over a grand in a guitar!!
I believe on the gov't website it is a federal crime to sell, trade or profit from the distribution of counterfeit items. That SOB who runs that shop should be shut down. In no way is it legal, whether you admit it's a fake or not, to sell an item without the permission of the owner, the inventor, the business or similar and certainly not sell an item made by someone that did not get permission to manufacturer another company's item or intellectual property.
Can u please do a video on how to spot a fake ibanez gio because i think i may have a fake ibanez gio
The owner is trying to get back what he got screwed out of but he needs to just bend over and take it. If he gets nailed it's gonna cost him a lot more than what he lost on that guitar.
Here's hoping...
Awesome... I watched the vid you did on those guitars, thanks.. I'm a player that's starting a collection, and need to learn more about how to spot fakes.. Any more vids on this is greatly appreciated. Other brands as well, I do like my Fenders and Martins. Thanks again.
I saw the Les Paul Voodoo's at Guitar Center in 2012. They did an Explorer & Flying V Voodoo as well. Gibson is making them again as a limited run for $1400.
***** I have two real Les Paul's, and almost bought the Voodoo/Goth or whatever you want to call it from Guitar Center when they had them on close out sale.
I was surprised to see them on the Gibson website as being back in a limited run production. They have a reddish color now,
swamp ash body. To bad they didn't have the binding thought.
i missed out on so many deals over the years. new ones will come up eventually but i think people are more aware now so thye don't last long. you can instantly look up anything with a phone while your hands are on the item. I passed on icemen, US chicken head mockingbirds, ibanez artist, baretta. all 200-400 when i saw them. and of course all the strats and LP's under $500 before the boom.
haha my store just had a Daron Malakian Iceman it was on the wall for maybe a week
Any suggestions for spotting a fake SGJ? It's already a less expensive Gibson model so I'm sure there are things done differently than more expensive Gibsons but what would be a telltale sign that it's a fake?
What?! The owner didn't realize it was a fake. That top notch in the headstock speak for itself. Damn.
they probably bought it thinking it was real and have $800 invested in it and they don't want to lose money.
Well, it's unfair and I'm not justifying the pawn dealer, but if you plan to spend 1k+ on a guitar you probably should spend 5 minutes or so on google or youtube before buying.
Completely irrelevant. I just found $800 in your wallet and I thought it was mine. How naive can you be? They KNEW it was a fake piece of shit and they tried to sell it as a legitimate Gibson. This happens every fucking day. Unless you live in a town with less than 3,000 inbred people in it - do you REALLY think that pawn shop owners are that easily duped? Were you born yesterday?
LPPL123 Absolutly...besides, I thought any reputable pawn shop would have it checked out before they hand money over for it and re sell it...that Pawn Shop now has a valuable asset ...Kennis...Im sure he wouldn't mind getting a call saying.." Hey Kennis..some guy dropped off a Les Paul...could you check it out for us"...
I'm sure they knew exactly what it was and gave the poor fool $200 for it at best and are passing it off a the real deal. They know how to play the game.
Guitars Gods & Guns that's why Rick call a guy or a friend 😂😂
I just today ran into the same exact scenario at a local pawn shop. I even told the store management about it and they could care less. Some buyer is going to get cheated - and they know it. I will never go back in that store again; just because of the lack of ethics. It wasn't even a good fake. The neck was horrible!
I used to work for Gibson, and a few years back, they actually got their hands on some of these fakes. Maybe 40 or 50 in total. We got them in and checked them out. For the most part, they were Epiphone quality instruments with a different, or modified headstock. Some were really nice quality, and hard to spot. 90% were easily spotted, and middle of the road, or poor quality. It is something to look out for. I have a friend who bought a fake one from a pawn shop. Great info here! Oh, and the Voodoo is an actual model. We did loads of them in the early 2000's.
You're most welcome! They do take that stuff seriously there, but I think they are more worried about trying to come up with fresh ideas for new products.
+Kennis Russell I think Gibson is doing that on purpose (not putting out videos to spot a fake). Hoping to sell Gibson parts that people will put in their Chibsons.
Dang. That is a rather unsettling story. On one hand, I feel for the shop, as they are likely going to lose their shirt on that guitar.
BUT... this is what they do for a living. They know the risk and know that they need to be sure before paying a premium for anything.
That pawn shop is breaking the law by selling a copy-wright infringed product.
Good thing you alerted the manager.
I'm more of a bass guitar lover and I started to get feelings that they're also making fake Chibson basses and Fender P/J basses.
Hi Kennis, Years back when eBay got started they only had $175 limit for Insurance if you got stung with a fake Gibson. I did. I paid $1600 for a Gibson custom used guitar and it looked good in the picture. When i received it I knew immediately it was a fake and took it to a very reputable music store Stutzman's Guitar Center in Rochester, NY. He checked it out and said it was fake and probably made in Japan. It had fake decals on it so it looks like the guy I bought it from put them on and not the manufacturer in Japan. eBay rep was not very good at helping me and talked to the crook who convinced him I was the scammer. I still have the fake guitar and play it as well. It sounds and feels great but nothing like the new one I bought new at Guitar Center. Even an ole Rockabilly Hall Of Famer can be Hood Winked so please be carefull and listen to Kennis and ole jerry E. Good job Kennis
+Kennis Russell Hard lesson learned Kennis. Love your site..Jerry
My question is why didn't the fake get reported to Gibson ASAP? Gibson could then have a Cease and Desist issued, and slap the pawn shop with a big-assed fine!! Pawn shop owners and workers are extra slimy reprobates anyways; it would be a pleasure to report their illegal activities.
Kim Cornell selling it as used eliminates Gibsons legal claim, and until he actually sells it without disclosing that it is a fake, (which we know he won't disclose it) he hasn't broken the law. Sad, but true. There is a Pawn shop in Blue Springs, Mo selling an entry level 2004 Strat as a 50th Anniversary model on Reverb asking $999 for it! When I informed Reverb about this, they chose to do nothing. I have lost all respect, and trust in Reverb, and will only buy through them as a very last resort.
+CS B Sorry, but that's wrong. That guitar is a patent infringement and it literally has no right to exist in this country. Their purchase of it was illegal, whether they knew or not. Their possession of it is illegal, whether they know or not. Their sale of it is illegal, whether they know or not.
Young Frankenstein
It is only illegal to sell one. It is not illegal to purchase or own one.
Good investigative work sir! Thanks!
How much was the used voodoo? . i found what look like a 70ish blackbeauty in a pawnshop was wanting 3grand for it, i kept looking at it and i noticed the craftsmanship was way off compared to reissue and figured the gibson quality was off that year and passed, never once did i consider fake but now that i think about it was like never played this happened about 15yrs ago
Hearing this reminds me of one of those I believe they're about $600 Les Paul's they have kind of that raw finish and somebody changed the truss rod cover and put standard, so this pawn shop had it priced at what a used standard would run which they had it for about 900 bucks
that Voodoo is sweet looking, did you buy it? also, how does it sound?
i think I would just write 'fake' on the tag next time i seen it.
Hay man! The fender amp of your back, is a rivera era ??? Woow
Was the epiphone les paul a fake?
I have a $2200 gibson les paul does price matter if it is fake or not? In my opinion it doesn't sound like as if it is $2200 coz the sound is crap and it pisses me off because i have p90 pickups
What an ass, that manager. Like he's really going to tell an unsuspecting customer it's a fake (for 1100 dollars... wtf). I would've gotten a friend in there after like a week and let him act interested in the fake and see if the manager would've told him. My guess is he wouldn't have. And then I would've called Gibson and let them know.
It pisses me off really bad. I mean, what if someone has saved for a long time to finally get their Gibson LP and gets one of these instead. I know, for some of us it's easy to tell. But not so for everyone. Damn scumsuckers, knowingly selling fakes !!
There was a store in Seneca SC, that sold fakes. The owners name was Jimmy Rogers, may he R.I.P.. Jimmy had the same rap about informing the customer. He did not. He was eventually raided by the Feds who removed all of his fake Gibson and Gretsch guitars. He was threatened with jail time, but because of his physical condition he was spared.
Great video. I watched both of them. I would love to hear how it goes if you send a ghost shopper in there to try that guitar and work up a deal but obviously not buy it. I wonder if they'll say it's a fake?
+Kennis Russell great minds think a like my friend. I'm glad you pointed it out. You probably saved someone from getting ripped off. Cheers
I don't think you're even allowed to sell a fake Gibson even if you tell someone it's fake you are still selling a guitar with an illegal Gibson logo. besides that a chibson is worth 250-350. I would have told the pawnshop owner to writ down it was fake on the tag.
That is correct. It's against the law (and should be). I wouldn't pay 25 dollars for it... Actually, I would.. So I could smash and burn it. So no one will get duped.
To be honest $25 for a working guitar is an excellent opportunity to spread the love and give it away. Selling a counterfeit Gibson doesn't bother me at all, but selling it for that price without explaining that it is in fact fake certainly does.
Well thanks a lot for the info! Was planning myself to buy one of these expensive pieces of art but now I think I'm going to be more cautious about details, you know, just so I don't pay 6,000$ on something worth 800$ XD Another way to spot a fake Gibson is by looking at the headstock's angle. Real Gibsons have this 17 degrees bend as Epiphone's headstocks are only 12 degrees bent, which is easily noticeable if you compare both side-by-side. Anyways, have fun on busting fakes!
thanks Russel glad I found your channel
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A Gibson Les Paul Voodoo in a pawn shop is a sweet find.
Great video man, really helpful!
Sounds like a shady pawn shop that invested too much in a fake and can't get the original owner back.
Maybe a good way to handle such a situation would be to say something like "I wouldn't want ya to run into any legal trouble, but you should know it's illegal to sell a fake without it being marked as one" It might be kind of awkward ., but how they handle it would be a good determination as to whether the place is worth doing business in future.
The fact that he said he was going to tell the purchaser that it was fake (yet was too lazy or dishonest to take 30 seconds to mark the tag "fake") , seemed to me like he was just brushing you off and had no intention of doing so ...probably didn't want to take a thousand dollar hit on his bottom line, dishonestly trying to recoup some of the money he lost & pass on his mistake to someone else.... I wouldn't do any business there at all if someone like that was running the place. In fact, I'd probably write out an online review of the place mentioning what they had done if they don't address the issue.
Seems like a lot of dirty shops like this out there -- just watched a youtuber from U.K. with the same exact circumstance, where the pawn shop just marked the price down to 1k and didn't appropriately handle it.
That's like telling somebody that you're selling them a fake corvette.
Lots of fake Gibson's with real serial #s on them too. I found one of kijiji with a les Paul with a real Gibson usa made serial # and the dude was said it was a fake selling it for $350.
Thanks for the info on both VIDs :D
Wouldn't 1100 still be way too much for that guitar? It would in my neck of the woods.. I'd say maybe worth 300.
I've bought two of them for around $350 each, so I think that's pretty accurate. However both of mine looked much more accurate and I guarantee sounded better than the one in the pawn shop you went to.
My Father in law got a $1000 Taylor for about $300, but he was friends with the guy who owned the pawn shop. But since then i have hoped to find a great Pawn Shop deal. unfortunately i live in a rural area and the shops around here mostly get all the knock off Stratocasters. not knock off as in trying to pass it as a Fender, but all those Fender Clones that have other names on them.
about the Best thing i find around here is the occasional Squire.
But awhile Back i found one that was a fairly Convincing fake Fender Telecaster. I had to watch some videos on how to spot a fake.
A guy in a music page on FB posted his Pawnshop purchase. A freaking ESP Custom Shop for $250-350 Think it was a Stephen Carpenter Sig 7 string
Most pawn shops now days go the eBay route with any good Brand name guitars. Only the cheapies are on the wall.
Good on you Ken!
Are they even allowed to sell them when its labelled fake? In the uk its illegal no matter what
No, it's patent infringement and it's illegal for that guitar to exist in this country, period.
It is illegal to even buy or possess one in my state.
A while ago I was a court social worker and I was in court when a guy was being sentenced for hundreds of thousand dollars worth of burglary. A lot of the stuff was as new. Cash Converters paid him 15% of the new value of anything he took there and then put prices on the items at a bit over 1/2 new price, so if you say a genuine Gibson of a certain type is worth $3000 they'd have paid $450 for it (if they believed it was real) and then sold it for the $1800 they wanted here. I don't think they were fooled though. My guess is that they paid $250 for it, knowing it was fake, and tried to sell it as genuine. I won't even get into whether Cash Converters or any other pawn dealer give a damn if something's hot.
Send in a ringer and see if they mention its fake
Anything over 1000 dollars they should run the serial number by gibson fender ect usually they will run it before they buy it or allow the loan to go thru
Wait ..i\m confused....it was fake but the Gibson guy confirmed the serial number as legit, etc.
So was it fake or not?
The black one was legit. The gold top was fake.
is it just me that wants to play my guitar every time I watch a video about one
Nope,.. me too brother..
every time i watch these, i want to run down to a shop to check them out but then there are sooooo many things to look for now and the copies are getting better every day. It's so bad now that i will not be buying anything except a new one from an authorized dealer, or a used one from a shop that has extensive inventory and knowledge in gibsons.
+littlegoobie The (Chibson) copies are getting better for sure. But they never nail everything (from what I've seen). There are always a couple of things off. But I hear ya, littlegoobie.
Perhaps you could have sent a frie3nd into the pawn shop a few days later to enquire about buying it and seeing if the guy actually did tell him it was a fake. If he didn't you should have called the fraud squad!
It is illegal for the pawn shop to sell them...
Great information to have .thnks man.
A video on how to talk a shop down $700...right on!!
You should out that Pawn Shop on Yelp!
wait so this guy stomps around looking for fake gibsons but has never heard of the voodoo series. . .rad.
Don't tell me they actually sold it marked as a real Gibson to $1K? IIRC that's illegal. If they did that, report them. It's scamming people selling that thing, probably isn't even worth $200
send somebody there who will act like they are trying to buy it. you can check if the seller does tell them that it is fake or not. 1100 for a fake Gibson? come on! worth like 110 probably.
Not all fake Gibsons are the same as the newer fakes keep getting closer to the real thing. I would be kicking myself to drop $1500 on a fake Gibson that is worth no more than $200.
Thanks Guitar Cop !!
good work kennis..hope that dodgy dealer doesn't sell it as a genuine Gibson..🤔
Great videos!
Subscribed
Should see the one I've saw at my local cash converter told them and got thrown out
Nowadays with E-bay and everything, you gotta be pretty desperate to sell a real Gibson to a pawnshop.
Therefore, buying one in a pawnshop especially at that price, it's highly suspicious....
I owe you an apology, Kennis. I vented on you after seeing too many "self-appointed guitar guru wanabes" on the tube. Sorry....you DO know what you're talking about.
i like learning from you
i personally can't deal with pawn shops, they always seem so predatory and hostile, i was told pawn shops have learned to re sell quality instruments online, ebay/reverb etc, i always assumed that pawn shops made their money in outrageous interest rates collected on their short term loans, exploiting the poorest american's .
thank you for you thoughtful and informed reply, i will reconsider pawn shops, there are probably a hundred pawn shops in san antonio, thank you
Good on you for informing the pawn broker of his fake Gibson but his price reduction was clearly not enough. He wasn't going to inform any prospective customer that it was a fake and I'm not surprised. Pawn brokers profit from the misery of others so we shouldn't expect them to be honest in their dealings. I've never seen a pawn broker that didn't look sleazy they all have that look of dishonesty. Go to any hock shop and look at the poor miserable bastards who turn up on pension day to pay their interest so they don't lose their treasures, it will bring you to tears.
Felix Burke if
sounds to me like the guy is trying not to lose money. He probably has 800-900 in the guitar and doesn't want to do the honest thing and take a 600 dollar hit to sell it for the crap copy price it should fetch as a fake. So he tells you oh i will tell somebody that its fake, but I won't mark it? They probably spotted the fake gibson acoustic when the guy pawned or sold it to them, so they paid accordingly and marked accordingly. On the Goldtop, they got hosed and are likely trying to save face. If the authorities saw that, there could be consequences.
The pawn got probably got screwed and unfortunately didnt want to take a loss. That guitar isnt worth a hundred bucks.
It's been said of late you can tell a fake Guitar because it's better quality.
Good job!!!
Illegal to sell a counterfeit product.
What drives this forgery is that people are willing to pay $1000+ just for the name on the headstock. I have two excellent far eastern Les Paul-style guitars which look and sound fantastic. They were dirt cheap but are not "fakes" nor "Chibsons" because the headstock is a slightly different shape and they are sold under brand names. Could I afford a real Les Paul? Yes. Do I want one? No. Same goes for Fender.
Good. Thanks.
Listen, this is only my opinion, which doesn't count for much. I don't have a problem with someone buying a Chibson. Personally, I wouldn't and never will own one. It's when people try to pass them off for financial gain is where I have the problem. I purchased a junk Jackson Rhoads (still all maple body and neck) that I had painted pearl white with dark purple polka dots by one of the best painters in the U.S., had new Duncan S4 put in the bridge and Duncan Jazz pickups put in the neck, top quality pots, wiring, etc put into the body and even the headstock has the spot on hand lettered "Jackson" logo on it. Would I ever try to sell it as an authentic Jackson RR tribute guitar? Absolutely not. Even though it's a Jackson body, and built to exactly mimic Randy's white Jackson (although the paint job is different) it is NOT an authentic custom shop Jackson. Period.
Your video is a little confusing at the end. I had to watch it twice. If you miss the comparison explanation it sounds like you're admitting you were wrong and it was real.
hes talking about the Gibson he used to compare the fake one too...did you watch the initial vid?
this is why i dont buy fender or gibson... there are plenty of other great guitars out there that arent being copied..
I have the same model Les Paul Voodoo as the one in your video . Its correct . They have a interesting tone as the body is swamp ash so there a bit brighter than your standard Les Paul . I used a black marking pen to blackout that stupid looking red skull they have at the fifth fret , it looks a lot better . I brought mine from my local pawn shop real cheap
This is just one effect this crap has on our economy.thats why I would never ever ever support Chibson or anything remotely similar. Besides the fact that it steals companies, years of hard work, patents, intellectual property and name. It ruins their name! Plus there are so many ways this sucks. People will never know if store owners buy this crap direct and sell it as the real thing. They can always say - " oh, I didn't know thanks for pointing that out"
Have you seen Tokai guitars? They actually don't PRETEND to be Gibson but clearly make Gibson copies, legally. And they are better quality than real Gibsons.....and cheaper. Not that I'd buy one, I'm more a PRS or Ibanez guy. Anyway love your vids, only just found you on here. I find your voice quite soothing
You’d have to be a special kind of stupid to pay $1800 or even $1100 for that piece of crap no matter what the name on the headstock
All fake guitars should be destroyed, it’s just ripping unsuspecting people off
Real Gibsons have real serial numbers that can be verified. So long that the Chinese dont use real serial numbers that correspond to manufactured guitars. Now that would be bad :(
I hate to tell you, but they DO use real Gibson serial #'s on the fakes.
Yep, as time goes on it is getting difficult to spot the fakes depending on who made them. This is why I have a real issue buying guitars off of eBay now a days. Just too risky.
Good buyer beware video.
It doesn't make it right.
I watched your first vid and wondered how you did that anyway he sounds like a pawn shop owner stereotype to me kinda slimy sorry guy.
Ken, since your video its gottin alot worst, there are fakes on Ebay, Reverb, craigs list, etc.
Next time hear the difference😂😂😂
Call the police
Oh no, a CNN Gibson!
the sad thing is that fake Gibson probably is a better made better playing guitar than a real one.
Chinese knockoffs!
Did you know that Gibson has a guitar plant in China?
It sounds like the pawn shop owner's last name is Trump.
His rhetoric is like "Trust me, I will do it. I am a honest man, honest man. I am the most honest man in history. The best honest man in history. Have you seen my approval ratings with previous customers? Highest in history, the highest."
You should go back and while he is not watching write "Fake" on the price tag...i would!
Ho well next time :)