Grommash:My son. The day you were born, the very forests of Nagrand whispered the name, Garrosh. My child. I watched you with pride, as you grew into a weapon. Of rightousness. Remember, our line has always ruled with Honor, and strength. And I know that you will show restraint, when exercising your great power. But the truest victory, my son, is stirring the hearts of your people. I tell you this, for when my days have come to and end. You, shall be Warchief
@@Mediados And then Blizz pissed all that away when they retconned Garrosh's character development post Wrath and Cata, retconned the behavior and views of the newly-allied Dragonmaw Clan who were first shown to be pleasantly surprised that the Horde had such a diverse constitution to instead all suddenly be racist fiends who quickly buddied up with Garrosh and infected him with these new views, having fellow Horde leaders bald-faced ignoring Garrosh's direct orders/advice (Sylvanas) or even outright threatening his life (Vol'jin) were _not_ offenses worthy of his anger and frustrations and subsequent demerits, forgot that Varian declared war on the Horde first and that it was Garrosh who was the sole extreme reckless warmonger of the war that followed and who deserves all the responsibility for the bloodshed it delivered, amped up all his negative traits to the nth degree, pretended that his reasoning for bombing Theramore -- which in reality (or at least initial stone-set established lore) was a well-placed and a genius war strategy with most of its civilians having long since departed the formerly neutral city that had welcomed Alliance weapons of war within extremely uncomfortable seeing distance of important Horde garrisons and settlements -- was somehow a monstrous war crime, and then near Pandaria's end decided to state casually that Garrosh actually rounded up civilian survivors of Theramore and other Alliance settlements to use for target practice because he's evil now, while forsaking all honor to have his secret police-esque agents dispose of non-orc soldiers under him he thought to be _maybe_ not all on board with his new genocidal plans in manners that would make Joseph Stalin blush with despot envy. Because fuck Garrosh, I suppose.
@@DT-267K Even though i dont hate Blizzard as much as other people do, such as you, your points are valid. It really bothers me that whenever they dont find a good explanation for a war, they just use the Horde because we are the Horde and we are so warmongering. Regarding the bomb im not with you. Garrish didnt care if he killed civilians or not. If the Kirin Tor wouldnt have intervened (which basically broke their oath) many innocents would have been reduced to dust. The Alliance tends to see themselves as the only good who never do any bad and commit no war crimes, but would annihilate all Orckind if it meant victory.
It really was. Proof that Blizzard actually still *can* write interesting characters and good stories. They *choose* not to because, let’s be honest, they stopped even pretending to give a fsck years ago. Shame.
face it: Garrosh Hellscream was a murderer. He slew countless victims, both Alliance and Horde. He decimated Theramore. He decided to ally with those that Warchief Thrall had blatantly turned away, and even directed the Horde to attack, during his reign. He didn't so much try and redesign the Horde as he did give it a gut job, tear it down from the inside out, and try to rebuild it even stronger. He's guilty. He's beyond guilty. There isn't really any need to prove what he's done, the evidence is permanently etched into Azeroth -- the crater left where Theramore once stood. Why on earth would a confirmed killer need a trial? Read books and you would know the crimes Garrosh commited
Garrosh straight up told Thrall he wasn't the kind to be anything other than a military leader along with all of thralls advisors so when Garrosh tells thrall it's his fault how he turned out he's damn right.
That is basically what the whole band-wagon of "Garrosh Did nothing Wrong" is about. Garrosh was such a great character until Blizzard run out of ideas, made Pandaria, and needed a bad guy, he went from a Warchieft, no just cartoonish evil. I hope now that he is "back" they give him so much needed character development.
@@Alphard9t I hope they make like BFA didn't happen and Varok just ressed on the angel and call it a day. Out of all the possible deaths they could have given him, they gave him one of the lamest. Comparing it to Broxigar, or ANY of the other time he could have died, no, he gets 1-shot by an ability covenant. Knowing how vindictive Garrosh can be i can see him, making a prison break, just to stalk Greesus(Thrall) and give him an RKO out of nowhere.
@@hisokamorow6709 Eh? Varok died iachieving every goal he had in life in the process by outing Sylvanas and repenting for his sins by sacrificing himself in glroious battle.
@@hisokamorow6709 Garrosh was an actual cunt though and I think the story in MoP was quite refreshing and different. An actual fight against a faction in their capital city, because Garrosh kept finding and abusing more and more power. Idk what else you wanted to have for an MoP final boss if Lei Shen is dead. Y'shaarj perhaps, but I liked the self reflection of factions in MoP... didn't think it was exactly ''poor writing''
Thrall told Garrosh that he would be leaving him with advisors to guide him. Garrosh chose to ignore them. To give a comparison, I give someone a video game and also give them manual that tells them exactly how to play the game and why it has to be played that way but they willingly chose to ignore said manual and then fail at the game until they rage quit, who is at fault?
A good measure for a good villain is how long after their death the world is still effected by their actions. Garrosh has been dead for YEARS now. Everything from the day he became warchief til now between the alliance and horde can still be laid directly at his feet. So can the burning legions invasion So can the death of voljin and so much of the horde when the legion came So can the Fourth War in many ways. When he died in Nagrand it didnt end the war with the Iron Horde- the conflict was still ever escalating to the point Gul'dan was able to step back in to take the reins
Imagine having Garrosh in Legion, dude had kicked SO MUCH demon ass, and probably could have given Odyn a spanking too, I miss the hotheaded bastard. Too many goody2shoes, Sylvannas tried, but she was just being pimped around by her sugar daddy.
@@voltron8375 they actually did a good job though. If your talking about stonetalon, thats because 1 set of writers went out on their own to try and make garrosh a hero, when everyone else on the writing team was working to set him up as a villain
What I like about Thrall's Mok'gora is that I think Garrosh probably knew full well deep down, that Thrall would resort to his Shamanistic power. He knew this wasn't an honourable challenge of power, this was Thrall coming to clean up his mess. But at the same time, there is no way Garrosh could refuse the challenge. Garrosh knew that to refuse the challenge would be the most shameful thing he could do and even the Iron Horde would look down on him. Garrosh probably knew he was going to his death, but refused to resign himself to defeat. He went in with bravery, hatred and anger, even of he knew his efforts were probably futile.
That's true, but he could very well put a rule to not use magic. Contenders in a Mak'gora agree to the rules of the duel they themselves come up. The reason Garrosh didn't say anything about magic? Could be a lot of reasons why, but i think the one that fits the most is arrogance and pride. Garrosh thought he could take on Thrall even with his shamanistic powers but he probably miscalculated how strong the elements are in alternate Draenor.
I don't think it's fair how Garrosh has been vilified by the writing team; they omit important details from the chronicles, I don't think they ever kept that promise to make him an actual war song and his story is one they have no interest in coming back to. As that Bronze Dragon said, "what a waste." As for Thrall, yes he did cheat but not just with the use of the elements. As dirty as that was, what made this a dishonorable win was Thrall pinning him down and executing him when he was helpless; unable to defend himself. He also denied his responsibility and has been running from himself ever since: his younger self would be ashamed. Had Thrall been more fair in the fight--or rather, Blizzard been more willing to add some minutes and more animation to the scene--and said something along the lines of, "Yes, Garrosh, I did make you warchief. I failed you and the Horde by doing so, so allow me to atone," I think he would've looked better and be less guilt ridden. I hope they touch on Thrall's guilt one day and properly explore it without excusing him. He's got to grow up, take responsibility and face his past mistakes and it would be nice if Garrosh's spirit could be the one to make that happen.
I think Goel knows what he did was wrong. He has suffered since. Losing his connection to the elements. It would be nice to see garrosh in the shadowlands and mabye of possibility of redemption for both characters.
Read somewhere on here he was set to show up in Revendreth, the "You've got something staining your soul so we're going to torture it out of you that you can help elsewhere" zone. Which would be fun to see working for Garrosh, given everything.
@@NoirRaven Nah, ruling? Probably not. But he's the poster child for "Guy we probably shouldn't have killed like that getting a second chance" deal, instead of getting pitched into the Maw.
Varian had already declared war on the Horde by the time Cata started. Garrosh was in his right to send troops into Ashenvale. Also dislike how they retconned Twilight Hammer involvement in Chronicles.
He hadn't declared anything. If anything, he was trying to, not settle for peace, but stop the fighting, because at the end of the day, he knew neither of the factions had any resources coming off the back end of the Northrend campaign
@@MegaBlackhawk1990 Varian declared war on the Horde after the battle of Undercity. They had seen what kind of terrible shit the Forsaken were doing and so after the Battle for the Undercity, Varian declared war on the Horde. The Horde-Alliance War as it was called was already started during Wrath of the Lich King.
@@Alt-o-holic47 well he wasn't doing much to do that, only Anduin was trying to ask for peace and Varian still had a temper every time he saw orcs, and caused ruckus amongst the Gilneans as well. So Varian was never truly peaceful.
After going back and watching this video again and again, I cant help but feel sympathy for Garrosh. He was honest with Thrall from the beginning, he didnt believe he had what it took to be a responsible leader. Thrall told him he "had to" pretty much(?) which is just dumb when you have leaders like Cairne at the time! Honestly hope Garrosh gets a redemption in Shadow Lands. Also... WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO FIND CAIRNE IN THE SHADOW LANDS?!? One of my all time absolute favorite characters and every time people talk about who they want to see, I bring up Cairne, and everyone is just like "lOl FoRgOt hE eVeN dIeD"
Ishnu borak Hands down Cairnw is fucking awesome and always will be the greatest character in the horde. I love how well his personality is balanced between overly friendly earth loving old man hippy, and balls to the walls "I WILL fuck you up" valour thirsty warrior. Fuck Blizzard for giving him the shittiest death in the series. Not even a cutscene.
They have too many characters to make relevant or to even want to try to keep relevant. Remember in Legion Greymane had one of the biggest alliance forces he commanded and in MOP? Dragon flight is gonna suck
Don't really care for all these retcons they keep doing with the lore. Thrall settled Durotar because it was supposedly similar to the lands the orcs had originated from, "rugged and beautiful". Not because he wanted to force his entire race to do some asinine penance. No competent leader would do that to their people. And no one would willingly follow a leader that did.
wait, is this version 3 then? because didn't they found org because there is where the last stand was because the humans chased them down only to spare them cowering in their mud huts?
@@user-vr8ve6rt9c No he just dropped the horde on it's head by just saying fuck it Garrosh your leader now. I am just going to do fucking nothing on a cliff now for 3/4 of Cata.
@@scottymorgan7868 it is not Thrall's fault Garrosh was a madman. That's Garrosh's own fucking fault he couldn't keep himself in check and learn anything from those around him.
Despite fact that he was great general material because of his Northrend experience, big chances that he would not listen to Troll or Tauren leader, refused to obey their orders etc
How about High Overlord Varok Saurfang who was the #2 in charge of the Horde since the end of the First War and led the combined army against Ahn'Qiraj .......
The writers and dev’s really shit the bed with his character in MoP. Made him do a complete 180°, without any event leading to him to change his core values. They shouldn’t have made him an antagonist, there should’ve been no WoD, no time traveling to alternate timelines, we should’ve dealt with Sylvannas instead, should’ve been no MoP.
@@MikasaaOWMoP was great, their villian selection was just completely counteractive to the direction they were taking Garrosh's character during Cata. Sylvanus was the better choice and it wouldn't have led to the lore becoming spaghetti like it has been for the last 10 years.
In the first ~20 min, Garrosh's motivations for many of his actions, and Thrall's praise of him confuses me. He experiences despair from thinking his father was a terrible leader. Then after realizing his father redeemed himself by destroying Mannoroth, he decides to make the same kind of war mongering mistakes Grommash made by proposing that the horde should just "take what they want" or by his prideful outbursts in front of King Varian. He has less reasons to be war mongering, and overly prideful in his race than pretty much anyone. For example 1) He didn't drink the Fel blood that would make him blood thirsty 2) He originally showed shame for the decisions his father made, which means he realizes on some level that what his father did was wrong 3) He knows Thrall is part of the reason his father redeemed himself; thus, Thrall should be someone he respects I'm sure there are more... Also, why does Thrall give him praise by presenting him with GoreHowl at the end of the Northrend campaign? What did Garrosh do that was indicative of being a proper leader? From the video, it seems like Garrosh only further provoked tensions between the Horde and Alliance, and acted out of rage. Unless Nobbel left out some key information regarding Garrosh's lore, his actions and Thrall's appreciation of him don't make sense to me.
I do really like the story of Garrosh, and I always remember the irritation I felt when he turned from a potentially great Warchief to a monster. Is it true that Thrall made a mistake in giving Garrosh too much power? Yes. He refused to see reason, and only appointed him because he wanted Garrosh to grow and mature under the adoration of his people, without seeing the potential downside of giving a child too much power. Garrosh had multiple moments to see his path turning dark, and even had moments where he contemplated the alternative to his eventual ending, only to scorn it and blast forward with all his might. His utter denouncement of Vol'jin, his disrespect towards Cairne and Sylvanas, and the eventual murders he would commit. All of them provided insight to where his life was heading and all he could do was deny any consequence and surround himself with yes men. Eventually a point was reached and he simply didn't care about the consequences anymore. It was no longer a struggle of moral ideals, but a firm belief in his own views, anyone else's opinions be damned. Thrall did fail him, yes, but Garrosh failed himself. He didn't need an old god to corrupt him, he was already long gone, and he reveled in his own demons. Garrosh had the potential to be great, but they chose to build a story of a person who became a monster through the ideals of "My way, or the highway." As much as I wanted him to be a great Warchief, I'm glad they chose to make him irredeemable.
Nah screw that. His "allies" simply wanted nothing to do with him and wouldn't do what he said. Respect goes both ways, so why should he care if all he's trying to do is bring them victory? He was simply to good for them.
Yeah. I wished they had done more with it, too, instead of taking the easy way out. You can realy feel a drop in storytelling after leaving the first two or three zones.
The art teams at Blizzard carried WoD. Like, the expansion was only good while leveling, because the story while leveling was amazing. The only reason why it has such a bad rep was because of the end game content, because there was no end game content.
@@Alt-o-holic47 totally agree, in fact I think questing peaked in WoD and the raids that we got were good. A shame there wasn’t more content and less command table
I really think they could have told a story where Garrosh ended up in his MoP version if they played it out over a longer time and gave better motives. I mean they did it with Arthas in WC3. Paladin Arthas from the first mission of the human campaign in RoC was nearly the opposite of DK Arthas at the end of TFT, but because they were able to show you his story unfold and give his motives, it felt natural. They could have done something similar with Garrosh. This is how I think it could have worked. Each Cata patch should have had Garrosh become more frustrated and disenfranchised with how the world was working, to point he comes to the conclusion a new order is needed. A world where only the strong rise to the top, and the weak are only allowed to live by the good grace of the strong, which, fueled by immense pride, he would obviously believe this would be the Horde and more specifically the Orcs. He could also be greatly intrigued by Deathwing and wonder how he grew so powerful and find out besides just naturally being powerful, the Old God's role in things. Furthering his interest in the subject. By the time MoP comes, Garrosh now has a clear vision for the world, and will do whatever it takes to achieve it (mirroring Arthas' desire to do whatever it takes). Going to Pandaria. Y'shaarj (or what's left of it) and it's followers find Garrosh's ideal world of constant conflict and such lines up nicely with their own desires and actively aid him, though not in a formal alliance sort of way, more of nudging things in his favor sort of way. This would satisfy both Garrosh doing everything of his own accord, but also satisfy the Old God meddling too and make sense. By this time the other Horde races would get sick of his shit since he has started multiple new conflicts and turn on him, _forcing_ him to accept followers of Y'shaarj as allies much to his dismay. Remember, he doesn't like it, but he's at the point he will do whatever it takes to see his vision. Now he's a suitable as an end boss. After that it could go any way really
35:33 Fun -but not really in this case- fact: In recent patches -not sure which-, Garrosh calling Sylvanas a "bitch" has been cut out from the dialogue and sound files. So now it's just "Watch your clever mouth."
Garrosh knew better because of the fact he was a Hellscream. Yet he still got drunk with power claiming everything was for the horde when he was simply trying to fill a hole Thrall left open after leaving.
Thrall did cheat though. The Warcraft movie really is one of the best examples of Mak'gora. Durotan challenged Gul'dan, Gul'dan used his magics to kill Durotan, every other orc said Gul'dan cheated. If Thrall didn't cheat in Mak'gora, are you willing to say that Sylvanas against Saurfang didn't cheat either? It isn't about knowing about your opponents powers, it's expecting them to be honorable in a fight where the only magic allowed is a blessing to the fighters weapons. Garrosh went in, expecting Thrall to fight like a man and it cost him his life because Thrall didn't.
Didn't Gul'dan use fel magic though? Using the elements/powers vs fel magic that was given to you that doesn't naturally come to orcs is two different things imo. Not everyone has brute strength - which is what Garrosh and Durotan had. Thrall has combat strength, but his true power has always been in his ability to connect with the elements. In a fight to the death it would be stupid not to use all of your power. I guess it's a fine line between magic and fel, but if you think about it from the perspective of the game itself, you wouldn't expect a mage to fight melee vs a warrior. I don't see how Thrall cheated here.
@@banexoxo Mak'gora is a 1 on 1 fight, using only melee weapons and minimal armor. Thrall used all 4 elements and was fully armored. Just because his strong suit is being shamanistic, doesn't mean that the rules are lifted because he's not as skilled in combat. You're not allowed to use any sort of magic in a Mak'gora whether it's fel magic or shamanistic powers I can see where you're coming from like I completely agree. A mage would never fight a warrior 1 on 1 in a melee only because it's not their strong suit, which is probably why you rarely see orc mages in lore. This is why a Mak'gora is an orc tradition, passed onto the horde, where the ranged classes in the horde also have training in some regard to melee combat. I.E Sylvanas Windrunner
@@Alt-o-holic47 The problem with that explanation is that there are multiple Mak'gora that had magic utilized without it being considered cheating and at no point is it ever explicitly stated that the usage of magic isn't allowed.
Garrosh Hellscream crimes are as follows! Mass murder Mass genocide Treason Hate crimes Mass pollution Mass warmongering Unlawful banishment Terrorism Propaganda Extortion Mass false imprisonment Mass torture Slavery Attempted conquest Type of Villain: Barbaric Supremacist
@@katatonikbliss Until you found that Garrosh Hellscream was a murderer. He slew countless victims, both Alliance and Horde. He decimated Theramore. He decided to ally with those that Warchief Thrall had blatantly turned away, and even directed the Horde to attack, during his reign. He didn't so much try and redesign the Horde as he did give it a gut job, tear it down from the inside out, and try to rebuild it even stronger. He's guilty. He's beyond guilty. There isn't really any need to prove what he's done, the evidence is permanently etched into Azeroth -- the crater left where Theramore once stood.
did anyone ever think that the most outlandish and unbelievable part of the whole story is the image of Gary sitting down to write a letter, and such an eloquent one at that...
I'd hate to use the Warcraft movie as an example, but in the film after Gul'dan beats Durotan in Mak'gora, all of the orc spectators are disgusted, and yell: "You cheated, Gul'dan." Not using magic or shamanism during Mak'gora is a sort of gentleman's code - there's no explicit rule prohibiting its usage, but it's still frowned upon. So yes, Thrall technically cheated (... and so did Sylvanas).
Nah. Jaina was already part of the Alliance from the beginning, hencer her people are humans, dwarves, gnomes and night elves. So, Jaina joined the alliance is wrong. She was already part of the Alliance from the beginning. Also, note that using that bomb went against a true orc's honor. That is from the very lips of Garrosh. Garrosh forsook honor for victory at any cost. I would say Garrosh went mad with bloodlust.
@@BudMasta - What??? Are you mad? Jaina was always with the Alliance. After the Battle for Mount Hyjal, she kept her forces in Theramore and made peace agreements between the Horde and Alliance. Still Theramore was an alliance base of operations, therefore it was supported by the Alliance and used by the Alliance. That did not break the peace agreements. Your comment is like saying Orgrimmar should not be able to request reinforcements or not have armies pass threw it, even though it is a Horde base. Straw man argument if any.
@@cainabel6356 no, it would be similar if the horde had a peace with some naga and then allowed naga hunters through the city to go kill them, supplying them, letting them use the zeppelins. You moron it's like saying Sweden was neutral in WW2, it was anything but neutral despite not firing a shot.
@@BudMasta - Like I have stated. Jaina allied with the Alliance after Mount Hyjal. That means she was supported by the Alliance. Also, she was not the High King, or the leader of the Alliance. Her base was going to be used by the Alliance to secure it, and other bases across Kalimdor. There was nothing within the peace treaty that does not let her base be used by the Alliance, since she is in the Alliance, to move armies through her base. What does Sweden have to do with this? It has exactly nothing to do with this. This is World of Warcraft and it is run differently. The Alliance in World of Warcraft is governed by one head hancho, which was King Varian. The Alliance put him in charge. Sure they had some freeway when it came to what they did with their own kingdom, but he decides to move an arm, they would obey. Theramore was far from being neutral in World of Warcraft. The only moron is you.
@@johanneshjortshj8646 which was? Ashenvale and Barren were already at war. Theramore was delivering arms to the war effort. He bombed theramore to teach them a lesson. The horde leaders turned on him first. His axe was poisoned and he wasnt made aware. Everyone started giving him a hard time and shunning him thereafter, to the point where he further went deeper into his own psychy as he tried helping his horde. As he got cornered his idea of his horde changed. Worst yet he told thrall it was a bad idea but thrall was too retarded to listen. I would have gladly fought in battle for Azeroth if he was the leader. He had a motive and he was Nobel and didnt harm innocents. Until blizz just screwed him outta the blue in Pandaria. He did everything right. The way it should have been done. To the best of his abilities despite being a warrior with no such leadership experience. He did what he had to. Out of all the horde warchief he was the closest we had to a good one. Thrall was too pacifistic and cowardly. Sylvanas was too egotistical and moustache twirling, voljin was just a complete wasted opportunity. Garrosh could have gotten a Varian type arc where he becomes less aggressive by a connection he makes or something as time goes on, but for that moment he was perfect. It was war. The only war crime he did was wanting to win the war that has been waging for so long.
Garrosh and Sylvanas are two of my favorite lore characters. Blizzard did them both wrong and they have identical stories. It's sad, really. Garrosh had every right to hate the Alliance because they're all a bunch of racist and pretentious fucks. Jaina can genocide some Blood Elves in Dalaran, but all she gets is a slap on the wrist while Garrosh and Sylvanas are put on the chopping block. Tyrande/Genn seem to be the only ones with any sense right now. There cannot be peace, especially now.
@ because garrosh did nothing wrong he should be in bastion lol
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@@Pausenmacher No trolling here it'ss objectively true lol Garrosh was objectively evil SSylvanas was objectively evil we won both those wars because we are the good guys horde is just an evil faction for edgelord players mate
Considering his orcish name was presumably a combination of “Goku” and “Kal El”... yeah, it’s little wonder how Thrall earned a reputation for kill stealing
I really hope Garrosh was actually manipulated by the Old Gods or even the Jailer. His sudden turn seems strange, yeah he was a warmonger, but he had a sense of honor. Instead of WOD we could have had an expansion where the Old Gods reveal they manipulated the events of MOP in order to loosen the shackles or something. Here it would be revealed that his violent urges were increased to turn him into a madman.
Even though this video is over 2 years old now, and I'm fairly biased in the direction of believing Garrosh did nothing wrong, I still want to leave a comment with my thoughts on this. First of all, Believing Garrosh did nothing wrong, and believing nothing he did was wrong are 2 completely different things, at least for me. Was what Garrosh did wrong? Yes, unbelievably so, the forced impregnation still makes me nauseous, seeing as how my grandmother is a WW2 Survivor, it hits especially close to home with that particular piece of information, above all others. BUT Was Garrosh wrong? No, I don't believe so, not fully at least. Garrosh was always hindered and prodded and pretty much beaten by the legacy of his family, among other things. Before he met Thrall, he was so dejected and miserable, believing his father was the ultimate traitor of his people, that he was more then likely having suicidal tendencies I would wager. He truly thought, to his very core, that nothing he could do would EVER make up for what happened, that it would be better for all of Draenor to forget the name Hellscream, lest misfortune land on their clan from uttering such a detestable name. But when Thrall arrived, things took a turn, not really for the better. After Thrall arrived and revealed the truth to Garrosh of his fathers sacrifice, and after arriving in Orgrimmar, he was influenced in ANOTHER way, arguably just as bad. Here was Thrall, the leader of the new Horde, an orc that radiated power, according to the Mag'har in Outland, one who had not only fought for his people, but fought for peace, and carved a home for all of them in the lands of Kalimdor. Being the grandson of Greatmother Geyah, who Garrosh, prior to Thralls arrival, seemed to have a bit of a grandson/son-esque infatuation with, he more then likely allowed that to influence his opinion of Thrall as well. On top of that though, which makes it worse, is that now that Garrosh knew the truth, and the others in Orgrimmar also knew what Grommash had done, suddenly everything went topsy turvy for the young orc. Here was a man that, for the majority of his life, had been told that his father had betrayed their people, had lead their warriors away, and had given their very SOULS, to the demons that now controlled them. Now here he was, brought to a new land, a harsh land, where most, not all, but most likely most, saw Garrosh, and expected so much from him. He was put up on a proverbial pedestal honestly. Everyone expected from him so much, due to his fathers sacrifice, none more so then Thrall probably, and seeing this young orc, basically accompanying Thrall almost everywhere, many others also more then likely held him to the same standard as Thrall, expecting to some degree that Thrall was probably training Garrosh to be the next Warchief one day, which with Deathwing arriving, happened alot sooner then expected more then likely. Garrosh was an, in all manner, a man....a boy really, in terms of mentality, that was constantly pressured in some way, whether it be good or bad, in no small part due to the actions of those around him. Thrall had no business putting a young, and still inexperienced person like Thrall on the mantle of Warchief, sure, he probably honestly thought that the advisors would help lead Garrosh inthe right and proper direction, but that wasn't a good thing either, because at least some of them, probably expected Garrosh to more or less act like Thrall, which in turn means that they weren't really respecting him as his own person, just an extension of Thrall, a replacement really, which Garrosh likely noticed, due to not being a slow or dim-witted individual (like me lol). in conclusion, what Garrosh did was wrong, and while he may have been wrong for what he did ultimately in the end, the actions, whether by him or others, contributed to all this, and helped shape the legacy of Hellscream. P.S. Yes, Thrall, you are 100% at fault for what happened to Garrosh, you took him from his home, shoved him into the spotlight of a planet-wide, multi-cultural epicenter on another planet, and expected him to act in a certain way, without respecting him being his own person, all the while letting your memories and expectations OF Garrosh be influenced in no small part by Grommash.
1:27:00 Well this guy was right, they did it to Sylvanas too and now there's no chief. Thrall did not cheat because there's no specific rules. And if there was such rules about using magic it will be unfair for those who wield it. And it would make de Mak’gora an advantage to Warriors.
I think thrall did cheat in the mak’gora because he was so heated with rage of all garrosh did he no longer cared for traditions and all he wanted was garrosh to go and fix the horde
For real, it's a warrior's battle, not a shaman elemental bullshit duel. Thrall even started the duel with his hammer as his, however when he felt the power of MY WARCHIEF he suddenly pussied out and pulled his elemental shit. A coward is who Thrall truly is...
I supported Garrosh at times fully and others reluctantly up until he ravaged the Vale of Eternal Blossoms and turned against the other races of the Horde. I cheered when Theramore was destroyed. I served alongside him and his lieutenants proudly in Pandaria. It’s truly a shame what Blizzard did to his character in the end. The Alliance would likely have ceased to exist had the other Horde leaders worked with him from the start.
Those were simpler times. Now on Shadowlands we are fighting death itself, how can it escalate after that? After such a thing as the Maw how can the Alliance and Horde go back to the fun days of faction fighting and conquering?....
Even to this day, the potential Garrosh had, to turn the Horde into a true powerhouse, was cut short. Albeit his crimes we cannot excuse neither in the depth of how many or the scale of how bad they were, he could have made the Horde, which is always going to be the bad guys, become a faction that actually mattered in the power scale, instead, we always lose or any victory the Horde canonically has, I legit cannot believe it given how OP the Alliance is with their downright powerhouse of troops.
My favorite character in all of Warcraft. I loved him as warcheif and would have loved more to see his visions come true of stormwind destroyed while the alliance pigs begged for mercy that would not come. I believe in his true horde and would love for an option of more factions or lots more choices to choose from in game to define our characters personality more depicting how we are treated in each storyline throughout.
@@user-vr8ve6rt9cRead books and you'll know what he did wrong. There is a crater where thermador used to be he has killed people horde and alliance!!!
Garrosh did nothing wrong. Varian declared war on him. Jaina was allowing Alliance to attack the Horde through Theramore. He wasn't corrupted by the heart of the old god and we do shit just like that all the time. Thrall cheated.
I love how our "real" old Warcraft actually had badass internal conflicts of honour for their characters. Modern Blizz absolutely hates anything that connects honour to being something of worth, as you can see in the mindset of their current employees - they tweet about hating white men, hating the "patriarchy", they hate everything that defined the old Warcraft. In their mind it is not acceptable to have a strong male dominated lore, because it doesn't fit their SJW(nowadays LGBTQ) mindset. They simply follow every trend, no matter how braindead. Back in the day we had ETC concerts because 50% of the playerbase actually listened to metal. Today you will be greeted by mindless Gen Z Zombies who just do what they are told to on social media.
I think that both members of the Mak'gora cheated to be fair, Garrosh and Thrall didn't SEEM to have a fair audience on both sides, but Thrall cheated "more" if you could say that, wearing full torso body armor and using ALL the elements. I think whats interesting about Garrosh is that he definitely did bad things but he also did some pretty reasonable things for the horde, and Thrall definitely played a part in it. I just wish they had bridged the gap between him throwing a commander off a bridge for using bombs, and bombing Theramore, like Theramore was very stratigic and I don't actually believe it was a bad target, but this started his hypocritical tendancy, which you can even see in Siege of Orgrimmar, as Garrosh stats that Thrall allowed warlocks to practice dark magics, while he himself is currently standing below the heart of an old god and told his "Dark Shaman" to basically destroy the elements, and he employed Sha and Mantid....
So outside of Thrall pulling spells out in a Mak'gorah, aren't the participants suppose to be bare chested? Thrall has his old warchief armor on under his robe... And Greatmother Geyah told him to take that off a long time ago. I remember he was hesitant to remove it but HAD to for his shaman training before Deathwing came.
I always thought of the "did Thrall cheat" question. And no, I dont think he cheated. I think the rules of the fight changed when both warriors were disarmed, in Garrosh's case, he disarmed himself (really Gary, what warrior throws away his only weapon). There was a fair bit of very subtle undertones in the whole elemental aspect of the fight. The elements wanted nothing to do with Garrosh. They rejected him. And rightfully so, he pissed them off royally in him saying "I've had my dark shamen twist the elements for miles around" statement in siege of org. So I'm not even seeing this as Thrall using the elements. I think the elements used Thrall as a conduit to finally get to Garrosh, thus the flaming eyes of Thrall. All previous instances of shamanistic magic were done by "calls" to the elements along with an ask of the elements to please grant a boon. I think this was the whole fury of the earth moment. So if anyone cheated, it was the elements.
That's just bs and further proves that Thrall is a coward that couldn't even uphold on of the simplest rules in the Horde by at least trying to stop the elements (if they are to blame) and end the duel properly. Garrosh was killed off because Blizzard are incompetent writers who ruined on of the best characters and laid path to one of the worst characters i.e. Sylvannas
Yes and no. I believe the Rules are set beforehand. The question that needs to be answered is if Garrosh agreed to allow Thrall access to his full abilities. If so it is Hellscreams own fault for not taking into account what could happen. Honestly is it cheating...maybe. did it looking fucking awesome. Absofuckinglutly!
Is blizz doing everything they can to make garrosh look like a bad guy. Or is that just how wow history sees the event with the druids. Also hammul runetotem should've known something was up with the orc weilding the sword. No self respecting orc would be caught dead weilding a sword.
We have to keep it even... Sylvannas was considered a cheater in the Mak'gora for using her powers and so was Guld'an, Thrall is no different. He saw he would die in this challenge and cheated. That is why the spirits left him there was no honor in that kill.
no I don't think Thrall cheated in his duel with Garrosh...considering Garrosh before the Duel was doing things he early in his life he was against but obviously changed his mind..........Thrall was with in his rights to use his shaman powers.
Writing for Garrosh Wotlk - MIlitary war hero ... the embodyment of Honor and value of the horde >>>> Cata- -thrall leaves- ok kid ill let u in charge dont fail me Garrosh ... but i dont want to? ... to late kid its done ...mkay bye- thrall dissapears .... after cata .... Garrosh ....Me Ork ...me Smash ... big sholderpads ...Bombs's theremore ....Garrosh makes a happy clapping face ..... its ... beautiful ... the Alliance ... Woah ....Garrosh ....True Horde Make the Horde great again ....fast foward to Siege of orgrimar ... Garrosh makes a suprised Pikatchu face but also grinning ... we need more spikes kill all hostages ... fear .... and total madness in the streets of orgrimar friendly fire on whatever methods to win ....Ending of Siege of orgrimar .... witers are like ...hmm u know what we should give him more time in the spotlight ....dont write him off but instead kicks off Wod expansion ....404 error garrosh not found ..... another fast forward garrosh vs thrall ....garrosh mutters meee true horde hulk smash .... thrall be like ...you know what i had enough of ur shit warrior ... time to get roasted .....a hand with middle finger pointing up grabs Garrosh saying u made what i am then thrall be like Get rekt scrub Proceeds to roast him with Thunder storm and Chain Lightning like a Fucking Shaman Pimp - after story ... thrall spits on garrosh's corpse saying casualy -fuck you at the end- honestly its ... beautiful in a way ...i know i know it dident make any sence but who cares ....because the plot needs to go foward :D
I do belive he cheated, to say Thrall dident cheat is the same thing as to say Gul dan dident cheat in the mak´gora in the movy. He use his abilitys and not sticking to the rulse. mak´gora is a challengs of skillz in a honest fight! Not using anything exept the wepon and fists. (And as fare as i know thats why Thrall dont use his abilitys now they abandomd hime for being dishonored to the mak´gora) . Sorry for bad spelling
Garrash could've been written better. He became everything he hated too linearly. I'm surprised they didn't say the old GOD's corrupted him. I mean, it's kind of the only way to tie the story together with such a linear change in his behavior. One day he's killing his officers for cowardly behavior, and the next day he's Mediev, dropping mana bombs? It just doesn't make sense.
![The Story of Jaina Proudmoore - Full Version [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vauVUmhfaxg/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Jaina Proudmoore - Full Version [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of Tyrande Whisperwind - Full Version [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ye62vIX4orI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Warlords of Draenor - Full Version [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gFhP34imtrE/mqdefault.jpg)
Grommash:My son. The day you were born, the very forests of Nagrand whispered the name, Garrosh. My child. I watched you with pride, as you grew into a weapon. Of rightousness. Remember, our line has always ruled with Honor, and strength. And I know that you will show restraint, when exercising your great power. But the truest victory, my son, is stirring the hearts of your people. I tell you this, for when my days have come to and end. You, shall be Warchief
Underrated comment.
Honestly with how far he had gone I could see him taking the helm
@@EdnaSpoonhands /whoosh
@@EdnaSpoonhands cry
That story is more human than orc but I really like the parallel drawn.
Garrosh's letter to Grimtotem was fantastic
someone really channeled their divorce into that writing.
Magatha underestimated his honor. That letter changed my entire perspective on Garrosh, along with killing Krom`gar.
@@Mediados And then Blizz pissed all that away when they retconned Garrosh's character development post Wrath and Cata, retconned the behavior and views of the newly-allied Dragonmaw Clan who were first shown to be pleasantly surprised that the Horde had such a diverse constitution to instead all suddenly be racist fiends who quickly buddied up with Garrosh and infected him with these new views, having fellow Horde leaders bald-faced ignoring Garrosh's direct orders/advice (Sylvanas) or even outright threatening his life (Vol'jin) were _not_ offenses worthy of his anger and frustrations and subsequent demerits, forgot that Varian declared war on the Horde first and that it was Garrosh who was the sole extreme reckless warmonger of the war that followed and who deserves all the responsibility for the bloodshed it delivered, amped up all his negative traits to the nth degree, pretended that his reasoning for bombing Theramore -- which in reality (or at least initial stone-set established lore) was a well-placed and a genius war strategy with most of its civilians having long since departed the formerly neutral city that had welcomed Alliance weapons of war within extremely uncomfortable seeing distance of important Horde garrisons and settlements -- was somehow a monstrous war crime, and then near Pandaria's end decided to state casually that Garrosh actually rounded up civilian survivors of Theramore and other Alliance settlements to use for target practice because he's evil now, while forsaking all honor to have his secret police-esque agents dispose of non-orc soldiers under him he thought to be _maybe_ not all on board with his new genocidal plans in manners that would make Joseph Stalin blush with despot envy. Because fuck Garrosh, I suppose.
@@DT-267K Even though i dont hate Blizzard as much as other people do, such as you, your points are valid. It really bothers me that whenever they dont find a good explanation for a war, they just use the Horde because we are the Horde and we are so warmongering.
Regarding the bomb im not with you. Garrish didnt care if he killed civilians or not. If the Kirin Tor wouldnt have intervened (which basically broke their oath) many innocents would have been reduced to dust.
The Alliance tends to see themselves as the only good who never do any bad and commit no war crimes, but would annihilate all Orckind if it meant victory.
It really was. Proof that Blizzard actually still *can* write interesting characters and good stories. They *choose* not to because, let’s be honest, they stopped even pretending to give a fsck years ago. Shame.
God... the potential his story had. Look what they did to my boy..
He's back now :D
@@eduardonevesreis4554 and just like that he’s gone. But damn did he get the send off he deserved.
@@TheCrazyDcoolest cinematic was garbage tho. It deserved to be so much better.
They need to bring back garrosh.
face it: Garrosh Hellscream was a murderer. He slew countless victims, both Alliance and Horde. He decimated Theramore. He decided to ally with those that Warchief Thrall had blatantly turned away, and even directed the Horde to attack, during his reign. He didn't so much try and redesign the Horde as he did give it a gut job, tear it down from the inside out, and try to rebuild it even stronger. He's guilty. He's beyond guilty. There isn't really any need to prove what he's done, the evidence is permanently etched into Azeroth -- the crater left where Theramore once stood.
Why on earth would a confirmed killer need a trial?
Read books and you would know the crimes Garrosh commited
Garrosh straight up told Thrall he wasn't the kind to be anything other than a military leader along with all of thralls advisors so when Garrosh tells thrall it's his fault how he turned out he's damn right.
That is basically what the whole band-wagon of "Garrosh Did nothing Wrong" is about.
Garrosh was such a great character until Blizzard run out of ideas, made Pandaria, and needed a bad guy, he went from a Warchieft, no just cartoonish evil.
I hope now that he is "back" they give him so much needed character development.
@@Alphard9t
I hope they make like BFA didn't happen and Varok just ressed on the angel and call it a day.
Out of all the possible deaths they could have given him, they gave him one of the lamest.
Comparing it to Broxigar, or ANY of the other time he could have died, no, he gets 1-shot by an ability covenant.
Knowing how vindictive Garrosh can be i can see him, making a prison break, just to stalk Greesus(Thrall) and give him an RKO out of nowhere.
@@hisokamorow6709 Eh? Varok died iachieving every goal he had in life in the process by outing Sylvanas and repenting for his sins by sacrificing himself in glroious battle.
@@hisokamorow6709 Garrosh was an actual cunt though and I think the story in MoP was quite refreshing and different. An actual fight against a faction in their capital city, because Garrosh kept finding and abusing more and more power. Idk what else you wanted to have for an MoP final boss if Lei Shen is dead. Y'shaarj perhaps, but I liked the self reflection of factions in MoP... didn't think it was exactly ''poor writing''
Thrall told Garrosh that he would be leaving him with advisors to guide him. Garrosh chose to ignore them. To give a comparison, I give someone a video game and also give them manual that tells them exactly how to play the game and why it has to be played that way but they willingly chose to ignore said manual and then fail at the game until they rage quit, who is at fault?
A good measure for a good villain is how long after their death the world is still effected by their actions.
Garrosh has been dead for YEARS now.
Everything from the day he became warchief til now between the alliance and horde can still be laid directly at his feet.
So can the burning legions invasion
So can the death of voljin and so much of the horde when the legion came
So can the Fourth War in many ways.
When he died in Nagrand it didnt end the war with the Iron Horde- the conflict was still ever escalating to the point Gul'dan was able to step back in to take the reins
Imagine having Garrosh in Legion, dude had kicked SO MUCH demon ass, and probably could have given Odyn a spanking too, I miss the hotheaded bastard. Too many goody2shoes, Sylvannas tried, but she was just being pimped around by her sugar daddy.
Yea but they did a bad job turning him into a villain
@@voltron8375 they actually did a good job though.
If your talking about stonetalon, thats because 1 set of writers went out on their own to try and make garrosh a hero, when everyone else on the writing team was working to set him up as a villain
I bet we can still feel it in The War Within.
What I like about Thrall's Mok'gora is that I think Garrosh probably knew full well deep down, that Thrall would resort to his Shamanistic power. He knew this wasn't an honourable challenge of power, this was Thrall coming to clean up his mess. But at the same time, there is no way Garrosh could refuse the challenge. Garrosh knew that to refuse the challenge would be the most shameful thing he could do and even the Iron Horde would look down on him. Garrosh probably knew he was going to his death, but refused to resign himself to defeat. He went in with bravery, hatred and anger, even of he knew his efforts were probably futile.
i really like this perspective
That's true, but he could very well put a rule to not use magic. Contenders in a Mak'gora agree to the rules of the duel they themselves come up.
The reason Garrosh didn't say anything about magic?
Could be a lot of reasons why, but i think the one that fits the most is arrogance and pride.
Garrosh thought he could take on Thrall even with his shamanistic powers but he probably miscalculated how strong the elements are in alternate Draenor.
I don't think it's fair how Garrosh has been vilified by the writing team; they omit important details from the chronicles, I don't think they ever kept that promise to make him an actual war song and his story is one they have no interest in coming back to. As that Bronze Dragon said, "what a waste."
As for Thrall, yes he did cheat but not just with the use of the elements. As dirty as that was, what made this a dishonorable win was Thrall pinning him down and executing him when he was helpless; unable to defend himself. He also denied his responsibility and has been running from himself ever since: his younger self would be ashamed.
Had Thrall been more fair in the fight--or rather, Blizzard been more willing to add some minutes and more animation to the scene--and said something along the lines of, "Yes, Garrosh, I did make you warchief. I failed you and the Horde by doing so, so allow me to atone," I think he would've looked better and be less guilt ridden. I hope they touch on Thrall's guilt one day and properly explore it without excusing him. He's got to grow up, take responsibility and face his past mistakes and it would be nice if Garrosh's spirit could be the one to make that happen.
I think Goel knows what he did was wrong. He has suffered since. Losing his connection to the elements. It would be nice to see garrosh in the shadowlands and mabye of possibility of redemption for both characters.
@@Elijah-qp5nh I was just about to say that
Read somewhere on here he was set to show up in Revendreth, the "You've got something staining your soul so we're going to torture it out of you that you can help elsewhere" zone. Which would be fun to see working for Garrosh, given everything.
@@JacksonJinn Judging by the trailer for the series of short stories connected to this expansion, he's definitely not going to be ruling this land.
@@NoirRaven Nah, ruling? Probably not. But he's the poster child for "Guy we probably shouldn't have killed like that getting a second chance" deal, instead of getting pitched into the Maw.
Varian had already declared war on the Horde by the time Cata started. Garrosh was in his right to send troops into Ashenvale. Also dislike how they retconned Twilight Hammer involvement in Chronicles.
Varian did not declared war on the horde when cata started idk where you pulled that out of.
He hadn't declared anything. If anything, he was trying to, not settle for peace, but stop the fighting, because at the end of the day, he knew neither of the factions had any resources coming off the back end of the Northrend campaign
@@MegaBlackhawk1990 Varian declared war on the Horde after the battle of Undercity. They had seen what kind of terrible shit the Forsaken were doing and so after the Battle for the Undercity, Varian declared war on the Horde.
The Horde-Alliance War as it was called was already started during Wrath of the Lich King.
@@Alt-o-holic47 He had given an official decleration of war after the Battle for the Undercity.
@@Alt-o-holic47 well he wasn't doing much to do that, only Anduin was trying to ask for peace and Varian still had a temper every time he saw orcs, and caused ruckus amongst the Gilneans as well. So Varian was never truly peaceful.
After going back and watching this video again and again, I cant help but feel sympathy for Garrosh. He was honest with Thrall from the beginning, he didnt believe he had what it took to be a responsible leader. Thrall told him he "had to" pretty much(?) which is just dumb when you have leaders like Cairne at the time! Honestly hope Garrosh gets a redemption in Shadow Lands. Also... WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO FIND CAIRNE IN THE SHADOW LANDS?!? One of my all time absolute favorite characters and every time people talk about who they want to see, I bring up Cairne, and everyone is just like "lOl FoRgOt hE eVeN dIeD"
Ishnu borak
Hands down Cairnw is fucking awesome and always will be the greatest character in the horde. I love how well his personality is balanced between overly friendly earth loving old man hippy, and balls to the walls "I WILL fuck you up" valour thirsty warrior.
Fuck Blizzard for giving him the shittiest death in the series. Not even a cutscene.
They have too many characters to make relevant or to even want to try to keep relevant. Remember in Legion Greymane had one of the biggest alliance forces he commanded and in MOP? Dragon flight is gonna suck
Grom's death in the fight with mannoroth always make me cry :( Every time.
Sadly Garrosh was exactly his fathers son, but he didnt get the second chance Grom had.
Don't really care for all these retcons they keep doing with the lore. Thrall settled Durotar because it was supposedly similar to the lands the orcs had originated from, "rugged and beautiful". Not because he wanted to force his entire race to do some asinine penance. No competent leader would do that to their people. And no one would willingly follow a leader that did.
wait, is this version 3 then? because didn't they found org because there is where the last stand was because the humans chased them down only to spare them cowering in their mud huts?
@jota erre Thrall didn't try and become a warmongering conqueror, or a genocidal maniac.
@@user-vr8ve6rt9c No he just dropped the horde on it's head by just saying fuck it Garrosh your leader now. I am just going to do fucking nothing on a cliff now for 3/4 of Cata.
@@scottymorgan7868Which was completely uncharacteristic by Thrall, and only happend because Blizzard was desperate for a story for MoP.
@@scottymorgan7868 it is not Thrall's fault Garrosh was a madman. That's Garrosh's own fucking fault he couldn't keep himself in check and learn anything from those around him.
He wanted good for the orcs (and only the orcs) but he made Gar-rash decisions
Thrall should have made Voljin of Cairne Leader and kept Garrosh as a general.
Despite fact that he was great general material because of his Northrend experience, big chances that he would not listen to Troll or Tauren leader, refused to obey their orders etc
@@sushionaram how about Saurfang then?
@@Elijah-qp5nh Big boy Saurfang?
@@sushionaram Since the Trolls are the truest allies to the Orcs since the Second War, it would be senseless to refuse a Troll as a Warchief.
How about High Overlord Varok Saurfang who was the #2 in charge of the Horde since the end of the First War and led the combined army against Ahn'Qiraj .......
Garrosh will always be my true warchief
The writers and dev’s really shit the bed with his character in MoP. Made him do a complete 180°, without any event leading to him to change his core values.
They shouldn’t have made him an antagonist, there should’ve been no WoD, no time traveling to alternate timelines, we should’ve dealt with Sylvannas instead, should’ve been no MoP.
lmao mop was one of the best written
@@MikasaaOWMoP was great, their villian selection was just completely counteractive to the direction they were taking Garrosh's character during Cata. Sylvanus was the better choice and it wouldn't have led to the lore becoming spaghetti like it has been for the last 10 years.
@@Eatpanteatsoup ur yappin
That screenshot at the end from the guy that said Garrosh did nothing wrong predicted the downfall of Sylvanas.
That cinematic from WC3 is one of the most beautiful cinematic in video game history
yep fun game, good story and cinematic
In the first ~20 min, Garrosh's motivations for many of his actions, and Thrall's praise of him confuses me. He experiences despair from thinking his father was a terrible leader. Then after realizing his father redeemed himself by destroying Mannoroth, he decides to make the same kind of war mongering mistakes Grommash made by proposing that the horde should just "take what they want" or by his prideful outbursts in front of King Varian.
He has less reasons to be war mongering, and overly prideful in his race than pretty much anyone. For example
1) He didn't drink the Fel blood that would make him blood thirsty
2) He originally showed shame for the decisions his father made, which means he realizes on some level that what his father did was wrong
3) He knows Thrall is part of the reason his father redeemed himself; thus, Thrall should be someone he respects
I'm sure there are more...
Also, why does Thrall give him praise by presenting him with GoreHowl at the end of the Northrend campaign? What did Garrosh do that was indicative of being a proper leader? From the video, it seems like Garrosh only further provoked tensions between the Horde and Alliance, and acted out of rage.
Unless Nobbel left out some key information regarding Garrosh's lore, his actions and Thrall's appreciation of him don't make sense to me.
Even tho he was a hyper aggressive maniac, he was the coolest warchief!
They just deleted Garrosh from the story after Cataclysm and replaced him with a cartoonishly evil Disney villain.
I do really like the story of Garrosh, and I always remember the irritation I felt when he turned from a potentially great Warchief to a monster. Is it true that Thrall made a mistake in giving Garrosh too much power? Yes. He refused to see reason, and only appointed him because he wanted Garrosh to grow and mature under the adoration of his people, without seeing the potential downside of giving a child too much power. Garrosh had multiple moments to see his path turning dark, and even had moments where he contemplated the alternative to his eventual ending, only to scorn it and blast forward with all his might.
His utter denouncement of Vol'jin, his disrespect towards Cairne and Sylvanas, and the eventual murders he would commit. All of them provided insight to where his life was heading and all he could do was deny any consequence and surround himself with yes men. Eventually a point was reached and he simply didn't care about the consequences anymore. It was no longer a struggle of moral ideals, but a firm belief in his own views, anyone else's opinions be damned. Thrall did fail him, yes, but Garrosh failed himself. He didn't need an old god to corrupt him, he was already long gone, and he reveled in his own demons.
Garrosh had the potential to be great, but they chose to build a story of a person who became a monster through the ideals of "My way, or the highway." As much as I wanted him to be a great Warchief, I'm glad they chose to make him irredeemable.
Nah screw that. His "allies" simply wanted nothing to do with him and wouldn't do what he said. Respect goes both ways, so why should he care if all he's trying to do is bring them victory? He was simply to good for them.
Atleast a cheap redemption arc done in Blizzards way would have perma ruined him like they did Sylvanas.
This is so well said. It played well on his story in Shadowlands
Thrall was an absolute IDIOT for appointing Garrosh as warchief.
Literally everyone, EVEN GARROSH HIMSELF, said it was a terrible idea.
WoD was awesome... well, at least the first half of it.
Yeah. I wished they had done more with it, too, instead of taking the easy way out. You can realy feel a drop in storytelling after leaving the first two or three zones.
The art teams at Blizzard carried WoD. Like, the expansion was only good while leveling, because the story while leveling was amazing. The only reason why it has such a bad rep was because of the end game content, because there was no end game content.
@@Alt-o-holic47 totally agree, in fact I think questing peaked in WoD and the raids that we got were good. A shame there wasn’t more content and less command table
i like your additions in the subtitles :)
I really think they could have told a story where Garrosh ended up in his MoP version if they played it out over a longer time and gave better motives. I mean they did it with Arthas in WC3. Paladin Arthas from the first mission of the human campaign in RoC was nearly the opposite of DK Arthas at the end of TFT, but because they were able to show you his story unfold and give his motives, it felt natural. They could have done something similar with Garrosh. This is how I think it could have worked.
Each Cata patch should have had Garrosh become more frustrated and disenfranchised with how the world was working, to point he comes to the conclusion a new order is needed. A world where only the strong rise to the top, and the weak are only allowed to live by the good grace of the strong, which, fueled by immense pride, he would obviously believe this would be the Horde and more specifically the Orcs. He could also be greatly intrigued by Deathwing and wonder how he grew so powerful and find out besides just naturally being powerful, the Old God's role in things. Furthering his interest in the subject.
By the time MoP comes, Garrosh now has a clear vision for the world, and will do whatever it takes to achieve it (mirroring Arthas' desire to do whatever it takes). Going to Pandaria. Y'shaarj (or what's left of it) and it's followers find Garrosh's ideal world of constant conflict and such lines up nicely with their own desires and actively aid him, though not in a formal alliance sort of way, more of nudging things in his favor sort of way. This would satisfy both Garrosh doing everything of his own accord, but also satisfy the Old God meddling too and make sense. By this time the other Horde races would get sick of his shit since he has started multiple new conflicts and turn on him, _forcing_ him to accept followers of Y'shaarj as allies much to his dismay. Remember, he doesn't like it, but he's at the point he will do whatever it takes to see his vision. Now he's a suitable as an end boss.
After that it could go any way really
35:33 Fun -but not really in this case- fact: In recent patches -not sure which-, Garrosh calling Sylvanas a "bitch" has been cut out from the dialogue and sound files. So now it's just "Watch your clever mouth."
Damn Garrosh must've been a genius to just memorize all the iron horde upgrades. Straight up trained in goblin engineering as Warchief i guess.
Garrosh knew better because of the fact he was a Hellscream. Yet he still got drunk with power claiming everything was for the horde when he was simply trying to fill a hole Thrall left open after leaving.
I think you meant he was simply trying to fill a hole Thrall forcefully wedged Garrosh into and then peaced out.
@@Manganization lmao exactly
What a great way to piss off Garrosh......by mentioning his father "your father dabbled in powers beyond Reckoning... where is he now."
Was he right though? 😂
@@keleitas150 he was right.
Next video, can you explain the lore behind "Jimmy the stable boy" does he ever becomes "Jimmy the unstable boy"? :O
It’s so nice coming back to your videos
Thrall did cheat though. The Warcraft movie really is one of the best examples of Mak'gora. Durotan challenged Gul'dan, Gul'dan used his magics to kill Durotan, every other orc said Gul'dan cheated.
If Thrall didn't cheat in Mak'gora, are you willing to say that Sylvanas against Saurfang didn't cheat either? It isn't about knowing about your opponents powers, it's expecting them to be honorable in a fight where the only magic allowed is a blessing to the fighters weapons. Garrosh went in, expecting Thrall to fight like a man and it cost him his life because Thrall didn't.
Didn't Gul'dan use fel magic though? Using the elements/powers vs fel magic that was given to you that doesn't naturally come to orcs is two different things imo. Not everyone has brute strength - which is what Garrosh and Durotan had. Thrall has combat strength, but his true power has always been in his ability to connect with the elements. In a fight to the death it would be stupid not to use all of your power. I guess it's a fine line between magic and fel, but if you think about it from the perspective of the game itself, you wouldn't expect a mage to fight melee vs a warrior. I don't see how Thrall cheated here.
@@banexoxo Mak'gora is a 1 on 1 fight, using only melee weapons and minimal armor. Thrall used all 4 elements and was fully armored. Just because his strong suit is being shamanistic, doesn't mean that the rules are lifted because he's not as skilled in combat. You're not allowed to use any sort of magic in a Mak'gora whether it's fel magic or shamanistic powers
I can see where you're coming from like I completely agree. A mage would never fight a warrior 1 on 1 in a melee only because it's not their strong suit, which is probably why you rarely see orc mages in lore. This is why a Mak'gora is an orc tradition, passed onto the horde, where the ranged classes in the horde also have training in some regard to melee combat. I.E Sylvanas Windrunner
@@Alt-o-holic47 Thanks for the explanation! I see your point
@@Alt-o-holic47 The problem with that explanation is that there are multiple Mak'gora that had magic utilized without it being considered cheating and at no point is it ever explicitly stated that the usage of magic isn't allowed.
I scream, you scream, we all scream for Hellscream!
Garrosh Hellscream crimes are as follows!
Mass murder
Mass genocide
Treason
Hate crimes
Mass pollution
Mass warmongering
Unlawful banishment
Terrorism
Propaganda
Extortion
Mass false imprisonment
Mass torture
Slavery
Attempted conquest
Type of Villain: Barbaric Supremacist
For the true Warchief for Garrosh
BadBoy Coolio What does that have to do with it ?
Everything
GARROSH DID NOTHING WRONG
@@katatonikbliss
Until you found that Garrosh Hellscream was a murderer. He slew countless victims, both Alliance and Horde. He decimated Theramore. He decided to ally with those that Warchief Thrall had blatantly turned away, and even directed the Horde to attack, during his reign. He didn't so much try and redesign the Horde as he did give it a gut job, tear it down from the inside out, and try to rebuild it even stronger. He's guilty. He's beyond guilty. There isn't really any need to prove what he's done, the evidence is permanently etched into Azeroth -- the crater left where Theramore once stood.
@@EdnaSpoonhands in light of this new information, I've learned that garrosh is absolutely based and did nothing wrong
did anyone ever think that the most outlandish and unbelievable part of the whole story is the image of Gary sitting down to write a letter, and such an eloquent one at that...
I'd hate to use the Warcraft movie as an example, but in the film after Gul'dan beats Durotan in Mak'gora, all of the orc spectators are disgusted, and yell: "You cheated, Gul'dan." Not using magic or shamanism during Mak'gora is a sort of gentleman's code - there's no explicit rule prohibiting its usage, but it's still frowned upon. So yes, Thrall technically cheated (... and so did Sylvanas).
Might want to add that Jaina joined the alliance and allowed them to attack the horde through her city, justifying the attack on Theramore.
Nah. Jaina was already part of the Alliance from the beginning, hencer her people are humans, dwarves, gnomes and night elves. So, Jaina joined the alliance is wrong. She was already part of the Alliance from the beginning. Also, note that using that bomb went against a true orc's honor. That is from the very lips of Garrosh. Garrosh forsook honor for victory at any cost. I would say Garrosh went mad with bloodlust.
@@cainabel6356 Jaina had a peace that was violated by allowing troops to use her lands to transport troops...
@@BudMasta - What??? Are you mad? Jaina was always with the Alliance. After the Battle for Mount Hyjal, she kept her forces in Theramore and made peace agreements between the Horde and Alliance. Still Theramore was an alliance base of operations, therefore it was supported by the Alliance and used by the Alliance. That did not break the peace agreements.
Your comment is like saying Orgrimmar should not be able to request reinforcements or not have armies pass threw it, even though it is a Horde base. Straw man argument if any.
@@cainabel6356 no, it would be similar if the horde had a peace with some naga and then allowed naga hunters through the city to go kill them, supplying them, letting them use the zeppelins. You moron it's like saying Sweden was neutral in WW2, it was anything but neutral despite not firing a shot.
@@BudMasta - Like I have stated. Jaina allied with the Alliance after Mount Hyjal. That means she was supported by the Alliance. Also, she was not the High King, or the leader of the Alliance. Her base was going to be used by the Alliance to secure it, and other bases across Kalimdor. There was nothing within the peace treaty that does not let her base be used by the Alliance, since she is in the Alliance, to move armies through her base.
What does Sweden have to do with this? It has exactly nothing to do with this. This is World of Warcraft and it is run differently. The Alliance in World of Warcraft is governed by one head hancho, which was King Varian. The Alliance put him in charge. Sure they had some freeway when it came to what they did with their own kingdom, but he decides to move an arm, they would obey. Theramore was far from being neutral in World of Warcraft.
The only moron is you.
He did nothing wrong.
Except for the part where he did everything wrong.
@@johanneshjortshj8646 which was? Ashenvale and Barren were already at war. Theramore was delivering arms to the war effort. He bombed theramore to teach them a lesson.
The horde leaders turned on him first. His axe was poisoned and he wasnt made aware. Everyone started giving him a hard time and shunning him thereafter, to the point where he further went deeper into his own psychy as he tried helping his horde. As he got cornered his idea of his horde changed. Worst yet he told thrall it was a bad idea but thrall was too retarded to listen. I would have gladly fought in battle for Azeroth if he was the leader. He had a motive and he was Nobel and didnt harm innocents. Until blizz just screwed him outta the blue in Pandaria. He did everything right. The way it should have been done. To the best of his abilities despite being a warrior with no such leadership experience. He did what he had to. Out of all the horde warchief he was the closest we had to a good one. Thrall was too pacifistic and cowardly. Sylvanas was too egotistical and moustache twirling, voljin was just a complete wasted opportunity. Garrosh could have gotten a Varian type arc where he becomes less aggressive by a connection he makes or something as time goes on, but for that moment he was perfect. It was war. The only war crime he did was wanting to win the war that has been waging for so long.
Garrosh and Sylvanas are two of my favorite lore characters. Blizzard did them both wrong and they have identical stories. It's sad, really.
Garrosh had every right to hate the Alliance because they're all a bunch of racist and pretentious fucks. Jaina can genocide some Blood Elves in Dalaran, but all she gets is a slap on the wrist while Garrosh and Sylvanas are put on the chopping block.
Tyrande/Genn seem to be the only ones with any sense right now. There cannot be peace, especially now.
aside from all the murders and war crimes, bigoted race war, and deep moral failings on every level, lacking honor, and all those evil decisions, sure
If theramore was okay , then there's nothing wrong with Jainna trying to destroy orgrimmar and purging dalaran then, war is war right?
35:30 oh my God, Garrosh just roasted sylvanas by calling her a BIATCH 🤣🤣🤣
Truly a better times
"Watch your clever mouth" is all he says now if you do the questline.
Damn... the back and forth between him and thrall in the end. Makes me wonder what would have happened if thrall had stayed and guided hellscream.
Sadly, he was imprisoned in Revendreth.
@ because garrosh did nothing wrong he should be in bastion lol
@@Pausenmacher No trolling here it'ss objectively true lol Garrosh was objectively evil SSylvanas was objectively evil we won both those wars because we are the good guys horde is just an evil faction for edgelord players mate
Such a great video, you truly should have more subs
I'm a year late, but your story telling is absolutely stellar. I love the way you pronounce the words provided in WoW lore.
Considering his orcish name was presumably a combination of “Goku” and “Kal El”... yeah, it’s little wonder how Thrall earned a reputation for kill stealing
Go’el is literally Hebrew for redeemer.
@@nacksb283 More proof that Thrall and Jesus are similar
Thrall's given name is literally an Epic Rap Battle
I did enjoy it. Thank you nobbel!
And after he died, he rage quit. That is cannon.
I really hope Garrosh was actually manipulated by the Old Gods or even the Jailer.
His sudden turn seems strange, yeah he was a warmonger, but he had a sense of honor.
Instead of WOD we could have had an expansion where the Old Gods reveal they manipulated the events of MOP in order to loosen the shackles or something. Here it would be revealed that his violent urges were increased to turn him into a madman.
Yeah… why would they do that when it’s easier to just Gas light the orcs return… and then have him kill himself.
23:45
Chronicles often leave out crucial details. They wouldn't have priority over previous novels
Are we sure the writing team wasn’t replaced by doppelgängers right before Mists of Pandaria?
Even though this video is over 2 years old now, and I'm fairly biased in the direction of believing Garrosh did nothing wrong, I still want to leave a comment with my thoughts on this.
First of all, Believing Garrosh did nothing wrong, and believing nothing he did was wrong are 2 completely different things, at least for me.
Was what Garrosh did wrong? Yes, unbelievably so, the forced impregnation still makes me nauseous, seeing as how my grandmother is a WW2 Survivor, it hits especially close to home with that particular piece of information, above all others.
BUT
Was Garrosh wrong? No, I don't believe so, not fully at least.
Garrosh was always hindered and prodded and pretty much beaten by the legacy of his family, among other things.
Before he met Thrall, he was so dejected and miserable, believing his father was the ultimate traitor of his people, that he was more then likely having suicidal tendencies I would wager.
He truly thought, to his very core, that nothing he could do would EVER make up for what happened, that it would be better for all of Draenor to forget the name Hellscream, lest misfortune land on their clan from uttering such a detestable name.
But when Thrall arrived, things took a turn, not really for the better.
After Thrall arrived and revealed the truth to Garrosh of his fathers sacrifice, and after arriving in Orgrimmar, he was influenced in ANOTHER way, arguably just as bad.
Here was Thrall, the leader of the new Horde, an orc that radiated power, according to the Mag'har in Outland, one who had not only fought for his people, but fought for peace, and carved a home for all of them in the lands of Kalimdor.
Being the grandson of Greatmother Geyah, who Garrosh, prior to Thralls arrival, seemed to have a bit of a grandson/son-esque infatuation with, he more then likely allowed that to influence his opinion of Thrall as well.
On top of that though, which makes it worse, is that now that Garrosh knew the truth, and the others in Orgrimmar also knew what Grommash had done, suddenly everything went topsy turvy for the young orc.
Here was a man that, for the majority of his life, had been told that his father had betrayed their people, had lead their warriors away, and had given their very SOULS, to the demons that now controlled them. Now here he was, brought to a new land, a harsh land, where most, not all, but most likely most, saw Garrosh, and expected so much from him.
He was put up on a proverbial pedestal honestly. Everyone expected from him so much, due to his fathers sacrifice, none more so then Thrall probably, and seeing this young orc, basically accompanying Thrall almost everywhere, many others also more then likely held him to the same standard as Thrall, expecting to some degree that Thrall was probably training Garrosh to be the next Warchief one day, which with Deathwing arriving, happened alot sooner then expected more then likely.
Garrosh was an, in all manner, a man....a boy really, in terms of mentality, that was constantly pressured in some way, whether it be good or bad, in no small part due to the actions of those around him.
Thrall had no business putting a young, and still inexperienced person like Thrall on the mantle of Warchief, sure, he probably honestly thought that the advisors would help lead Garrosh inthe right and proper direction, but that wasn't a good thing either, because at least some of them, probably expected Garrosh to more or less act like Thrall, which in turn means that they weren't really respecting him as his own person, just an extension of Thrall, a replacement really, which Garrosh likely noticed, due to not being a slow or dim-witted individual (like me lol).
in conclusion, what Garrosh did was wrong, and while he may have been wrong for what he did ultimately in the end, the actions, whether by him or others, contributed to all this, and helped shape the legacy of Hellscream.
P.S. Yes, Thrall, you are 100% at fault for what happened to Garrosh, you took him from his home, shoved him into the spotlight of a planet-wide, multi-cultural epicenter on another planet, and expected him to act in a certain way, without respecting him being his own person, all the while letting your memories and expectations OF Garrosh be influenced in no small part by Grommash.
1:27:00 Well this guy was right, they did it to Sylvanas too and now there's no chief.
Thrall did not cheat because there's no specific rules.
And if there was such rules about using magic it will be unfair for those who wield it.
And it would make de Mak’gora an advantage to Warriors.
I think thrall did cheat in the mak’gora because he was so heated with rage of all garrosh did he no longer cared for traditions and all he wanted was garrosh to go and fix the horde
For real, it's a warrior's battle, not a shaman elemental bullshit duel. Thrall even started the duel with his hammer as his, however when he felt the power of MY WARCHIEF he suddenly pussied out and pulled his elemental shit. A coward is who Thrall truly is...
“You made me do nothing wrong.”
Epic video dude well made
I forgot he actually called Sylvanas a bitch. That was forshadowing for the shadowlands storyline, he was right before it was cool.
I supported Garrosh at times fully and others reluctantly up until he ravaged the Vale of Eternal Blossoms and turned against the other races of the Horde. I cheered when Theramore was destroyed. I served alongside him and his lieutenants proudly in Pandaria.
It’s truly a shame what Blizzard did to his character in the end. The Alliance would likely have ceased to exist had the other Horde leaders worked with him from the start.
Well hopefully we'll get to see him at Revendreth if the rumors are true.
Those were simpler times. Now on Shadowlands we are fighting death itself, how can it escalate after that? After such a thing as the Maw how can the Alliance and Horde go back to the fun days of faction fighting and conquering?....
Even to this day, the potential Garrosh had, to turn the Horde into a true powerhouse, was cut short. Albeit his crimes we cannot excuse neither in the depth of how many or the scale of how bad they were, he could have made the Horde, which is always going to be the bad guys, become a faction that actually mattered in the power scale, instead, we always lose or any victory the Horde canonically has, I legit cannot believe it given how OP the Alliance is with their downright powerhouse of troops.
The closed captions make it so much better
The only thing Garrosh did wrong was to release the hearth on the pools of Pandaria, after that yeah, he deserved everything that followed
It's so unfortunate that they replaced the Garrosh model with the Cata one in ToC, Icecrown, etc.
The cata model is the best he looks so cool
LOL Your subtitles are killing me dude. Get that heart some milk.
Yes he did. Thrall cheated and cost us a great Warchief
My favorite character in all of Warcraft. I loved him as warcheif and would have loved more to see his visions come true of stormwind destroyed while the alliance pigs begged for mercy that would not come. I believe in his true horde and would love for an option of more factions or lots more choices to choose from in game to define our characters personality more depicting how we are treated in each storyline throughout.
he did nothing wrong, that's all there is to know
@ Stalin was a hero
He did do something wrong
@@user-vr8ve6rt9cRead books and you'll know what he did wrong. There is a crater where thermador used to be he has killed people horde and alliance!!!
He did nothing wrong but green pickle(tharll) did everything wrong
This guy said "Tharll" 😂
Yes. He needs to be offed in Shadowlands. His cowardice is too much to handle. I liked him till wrath. He went downhill fast from there.
Garrosh did nothing wrong and did everything wrong.
daddy garrosh is senpai
How is Thrall Groms old friend when he is the son of Durotan and Grom and Durotan were roughly the same age
It only took 1.5h but i finally understand wtf is going on in WoD. Thanks, great video man
Garrosh did nothing wrong. Varian declared war on him. Jaina was allowing Alliance to attack the Horde through Theramore. He wasn't corrupted by the heart of the old god and we do shit just like that all the time. Thrall cheated.
I mean let's be fair, Garrosh didn't need to be corrupted by the Old God's, he already went down that dark conquering path, just not for them.
I love how our "real" old Warcraft actually had badass internal conflicts of honour for their characters. Modern Blizz absolutely hates anything that connects honour to being something of worth, as you can see in the mindset of their current employees - they tweet about hating white men, hating the "patriarchy", they hate everything that defined the old Warcraft. In their mind it is not acceptable to have a strong male dominated lore, because it doesn't fit their SJW(nowadays LGBTQ) mindset. They simply follow every trend, no matter how braindead. Back in the day we had ETC concerts because 50% of the playerbase actually listened to metal. Today you will be greeted by mindless Gen Z Zombies who just do what they are told to on social media.
Garrosh did everything wrong, but he was an orcish warrior who didnt know better. Now the 1# cow of the venthir.
Holy shit rofl
I think that both members of the Mak'gora cheated to be fair, Garrosh and Thrall didn't SEEM to have a fair audience on both sides, but Thrall cheated "more" if you could say that, wearing full torso body armor and using ALL the elements. I think whats interesting about Garrosh is that he definitely did bad things but he also did some pretty reasonable things for the horde, and Thrall definitely played a part in it. I just wish they had bridged the gap between him throwing a commander off a bridge for using bombs, and bombing Theramore, like Theramore was very stratigic and I don't actually believe it was a bad target, but this started his hypocritical tendancy, which you can even see in Siege of Orgrimmar, as Garrosh stats that Thrall allowed warlocks to practice dark magics, while he himself is currently standing below the heart of an old god and told his "Dark Shaman" to basically destroy the elements, and he employed Sha and Mantid....
Garrosh Hellscream's starting Dungeons and Dragons Alignment: Neutral Good
Garrosh Hellscream's ending Dungeons and Dragons Alignment: Lawful Evil.
More like Chaotic Stupid.
Never really looked at it but Grommosh hair is beautiful lol
aaaah yeah, I was watching the sylvannis movie
I never understood the comparison between the 2 characters. Their origins are entirely different.
So outside of Thrall pulling spells out in a Mak'gorah, aren't the participants suppose to be bare chested? Thrall has his old warchief armor on under his robe... And Greatmother Geyah told him to take that off a long time ago. I remember he was hesitant to remove it but HAD to for his shaman training before Deathwing came.
I always thought of the "did Thrall cheat" question. And no, I dont think he cheated. I think the rules of the fight changed when both warriors were disarmed, in Garrosh's case, he disarmed himself (really Gary, what warrior throws away his only weapon). There was a fair bit of very subtle undertones in the whole elemental aspect of the fight. The elements wanted nothing to do with Garrosh. They rejected him. And rightfully so, he pissed them off royally in him saying "I've had my dark shamen twist the elements for miles around" statement in siege of org. So I'm not even seeing this as Thrall using the elements. I think the elements used Thrall as a conduit to finally get to Garrosh, thus the flaming eyes of Thrall. All previous instances of shamanistic magic were done by "calls" to the elements along with an ask of the elements to please grant a boon. I think this was the whole fury of the earth moment. So if anyone cheated, it was the elements.
That's just bs and further proves that Thrall is a coward that couldn't even uphold on of the simplest rules in the Horde by at least trying to stop the elements (if they are to blame) and end the duel properly. Garrosh was killed off because Blizzard are incompetent writers who ruined on of the best characters and laid path to one of the worst characters i.e. Sylvannas
Yes and no. I believe the Rules are set beforehand. The question that needs to be answered is if Garrosh agreed to allow Thrall access to his full abilities. If so it is Hellscreams own fault for not taking into account what could happen. Honestly is it cheating...maybe. did it looking fucking awesome. Absofuckinglutly!
Is blizz doing everything they can to make garrosh look like a bad guy. Or is that just how wow history sees the event with the druids. Also hammul runetotem should've known something was up with the orc weilding the sword. No self respecting orc would be caught dead weilding a sword.
It's blizz, especially now when Garrosh is giving off strong MAGA vibes. 😔
Garrosh was a bad guy because they didn't want him to be another version of Thrall.
We have to keep it even... Sylvannas was considered a cheater in the Mak'gora for using her powers and so was Guld'an, Thrall is no different. He saw he would die in this challenge and cheated. That is why the spirits left him there was no honor in that kill.
He really put the axe down and started punching... You know you messed up.
Uhh yeah subtitles guy , i dont know what you were on during cutscenes but i want some
I feel like if Garrosh had more time to learn and be a little less aggression driven he would’ve been a p good Warchief with good guidance ofc
everytime i watch it its BS thralls a cheating sob
Cool to see my vid from years ago in a nobbel vid!
Roflmao "shamans sensed thst there was something wrong with the elements themselves" as a giant wave approaches.
Sorry, just amused me
Think we could possibly see Grom in Shadowlands?
aye
Nobbel87 that would be so good, just pops up in Maldraxus
damn that scene is better than whole bfa sl and df together 5:58
MY WARCHIEF
Guldan useing magic on sacred duel - cheater
Thrall does the same - he did nothing wrong
:V
no I don't think Thrall cheated in his duel with Garrosh...considering Garrosh before the Duel was doing things he early in his life he was against but obviously changed his mind..........Thrall was with in his rights to use his shaman powers.
Garrosh vs Cairne in Shadowlands round 2
5:11 Pam pam pam pam charge at him gromm. Kick mnnoorht booty. Ow snap you carved him up
5:22 is gold thnx who ever made the subs
Writing for Garrosh Wotlk - MIlitary war hero ... the embodyment of Honor and value of the horde >>>> Cata- -thrall leaves- ok kid ill let u in charge dont fail me Garrosh ... but i dont want to? ... to late kid its done ...mkay bye- thrall dissapears .... after cata .... Garrosh ....Me Ork ...me Smash ... big sholderpads ...Bombs's theremore ....Garrosh makes a happy clapping face ..... its ... beautiful ... the Alliance ... Woah ....Garrosh ....True Horde Make the Horde great again ....fast foward to Siege of orgrimar ... Garrosh makes a suprised Pikatchu face but also grinning ... we need more spikes kill all hostages ... fear .... and total madness in the streets of orgrimar friendly fire on whatever methods to win ....Ending of Siege of orgrimar .... witers are like ...hmm u know what we should give him more time in the spotlight ....dont write him off but instead kicks off Wod expansion ....404 error garrosh not found ..... another fast forward garrosh vs thrall ....garrosh mutters meee true horde hulk smash .... thrall be like ...you know what i had enough of ur shit warrior ... time to get roasted .....a hand with middle finger pointing up grabs Garrosh saying u made what i am then thrall be like Get rekt scrub Proceeds to roast him with Thunder storm and Chain Lightning like a Fucking Shaman Pimp - after story ... thrall spits on garrosh's corpse saying casualy -fuck you at the end- honestly its ... beautiful in a way ...i know i know it dident make any sence but who cares ....because the plot needs to go foward :D
I do belive he cheated, to say Thrall dident cheat is the same thing as to say Gul dan dident cheat in the mak´gora in the movy. He use his abilitys and not sticking to the rulse. mak´gora is a challengs of skillz in a honest fight! Not using anything exept the wepon and fists. (And as fare as i know thats why Thrall dont use his abilitys now they abandomd hime for being dishonored to the mak´gora) . Sorry for bad spelling
Garrash could've been written better. He became everything he hated too linearly. I'm surprised they didn't say the old GOD's corrupted him. I mean, it's kind of the only way to tie the story together with such a linear change in his behavior. One day he's killing his officers for cowardly behavior, and the next day he's Mediev, dropping mana bombs? It just doesn't make sense.
Except no. What actually led to his behavior change is his huge hatred of the Alliance.
GAROSH
DID
NOTHING
WRONG