Evening everybody! This video should have gone live like wednesday, but man it's been a wacky week for the lore. Hope you'll enjoy the full version of Jaina's story!
No we should wait to see thralls storyline play out over the next years. His character arch is to open ended at the moment to do the full story of thrall. I really hope nobbel keeps thralls story for the perfect timing
*watches Jaina try to keep Thrall and Garrosh from bumping into Varian* Seriously, why the hell did Thrall think making Garrosh Warchief would be a good idea?
I would have liked to have seen who in Horde ranks complained if Thrall appointed Cairne or Saurfang as the new Warchief. Vol'Jin would have probably raised some eyebrows since shadow hunters are kind of a suspicious bunch for non-trolls, elfs are in bad terms with trolls and some orcs see them as physically inferior race, like Garrosh demonstrated. Cairne and Saurfang had both were better fighters than Garrosh, were way smarter and experienced and had unquestionable respect of the entire faction. And most importantly Garrosh didn't want the title and had huge respect for at least Saurfang and would have served him without question as his second-in-command. But Blizzard needs to have lore reason for AvH battlegrounds, as if the game didn't have any other game mechanics unexplained by lore.
38:17 Jesus Christ that was uncalled for Varian. Holy shit, the way the voice actor says that line with such thinly veiled contempt really drives it home.
Varian lost everything to the Orc Horde many times over, including people in and the actual city where he said that. For his character, it would honestly make perfect sense even after he made his final, balanced peace within himself, and that hadn't happened yet.
Was it though? Nothing he said is legitimatelly wrong. As time demonstrated time and again. Saying that Azeroth would have been better without the Horde may be debatable, but that without Orcs Azeroth would be paradise of peace is a fact.
I am learning so much from this I never got to in game... Thank you. I am at 1:30:50 and this hit hard: "Every reprisal is itself an act of aggression, and every act of aggression triggers immediate reprisal."
*As a "newer" player who learned the Warcraft universe through Warcraft 3, I always felt a special connection with the key characters during the third war, like Thrall, Cairne, Arthas, Jaina.* Why I absolutely sympathize with Jaina, although because of game balancing reasons, the eternal conflict between the Alliance and the Horde will never end. Horde: Invaded Azeroth. Destroyed human kingdoms. Ravaged through the Eastern Kingdoms. Killed her brother. Jaina: All I ever want was to study. Studies in Dalaran the art of magic. *Helped Thrall to save Grom with the soul gem from the demon corruption.* Horde: Killed her father. Jaina: "The Horde is no longer our enemy father. You don't understand." *Saved Thrall and Garrosh from being taken prisoner or killed by Varian during Siege of Undercity. Helped Sylvanas get her Capital back which otherwisse would fall back to the Alliance.* *Helped Baine and the Tauren to gain their city back, even when Garrosh & Orcs refused to help.* Horde: Nuke her own founded City/Kingdom of survivors of Lordaeron. Including mana-radiation bombed her mentor Rhonin, her first little apprentice Kinndy, and everybody else she cared there. Betrayal of Horde members within the Kirin Tor. Jaina: Instead of nuking Orgrimmar as payback - *"It's important to separate the Horde from it's people. Alliance and Horde can work together."* Horde: Betrayal of Horde members within the Kirin tor the second time to steal the divine bell. Caused Anduin who call Jaina "Aunt Jaina" ever since to get nearly killed & bones crushed. Jaina: *Allright boys, I've had it.* Why people continues to say she is a warmonger, and yet continue to support the current warchief, who -tortured the living. Experimented on them to create more atrocities. -plague bombed various cities, which even Garrosh forbit to do, because it shares similarities with the Lich King. -invaded a neutral Kingdom (for more living space and security I guess), plague bombed everything there. -during the Legion invasion tried to betray and enslave a powerful ally simply for her own benefits. -invaded Kalimdor, genocide on an ancient species , for even more living space and security I guess again. -wanted for herself free will. But killed her own citizens / civilians (also with free will), despite they clearly decided to stay loyal to her. -plague bombed and killed her own soldiers, and raised them as mindless corpses again. Despite she hates Arthas for the exactly the same thing he did to her. So what shall the revived think of her, by her own standards, then?
Theramore heavily supported the Alliance war effort in Southern Barrent, a region simply too close to 3 Horde capitals. Compared to that all the Alliance capitals were a safe heaven from the horde. It was strategic target that any reasonable general would love to take out, and the peaceful and 'neutral' Jaina was the one that made it so. Garrosh even gave them enough time to evacuate all the civilians, everyone that stayed, stayed to fight, ergo only military personnel died at Theramore. Jaina, on the other hand, almost struck at a city with god knows how many civilians in it. She needes both a lot of persuation AND force to be stopped. Sunreavers did look the other way when Horde used Dalaran (they didn't actively help), but in all fairness Jaina herself though about actively putting Kirin Tor on the side of the Alliance, didn't she? That is what she did eventually.
Garrosh did give them enough time to evacuate, but then hunted them down on sea and tortured them to death in Orgrimmar.We could only save a few in SoO.
Wasn't that just raid flavor or did i miss something else? Metzen quite clearly separated lore from raid flavor. Even if that was canon Jaina was about to obliterate a whole city full of civilians before she ever learned about that.
"was about to obliterate" But in the end, she decided to *NOT* obliterate a whole city. Despite her beloved city and home was manabomb-nuked of the Horde, it's capital she still spared. Which you cannot say from other female leaders, plague bombing cities, kingdoms, genociding other races, burn the living, burn a World Tree. And this makes the difference.
It took hell of a lot force and reason to keep her from killing thousands of innocent civilians, i do understand her pain but she brought it on herself by throwing away her neutrality and she is too unstable to insist so hard on such an awful decision. Don't misunderstand me please, i don't defend Sylvanas at all. She is a genocidal maniac that is much worse then Jaina. But Jaina is someone that should be kept under tight watch for sure, perhaps even imprisoned.
@@wyveriusblackfire3834 LOL No it doesn't FAR from it. That's not at all what happened, Thrall mainly made Garrosh Warchief because of all the good things he's done AGAINST the lich king's armies in Northend. That's it and that should be obvious.
@@GorehowlBeardhead lol what are you even saying? Not once did Garrosh punish Varian at all. Your obnoxious sarcasm isn’t helping anything at all, your just being annoying, that’s all!
@@Gadget-Walkmen 'not once did Garrosh punch Varian' ...are you a complete idiot? Or have you just not played the game you're running your mouth about?
Jaina Proudmoore is without a doubt my favorite female character in Warcraft lore. Thank you Nobbel for the (as always) thorough overview and details! In just under 2 hours you brilliantly laid out two decades of character history. I'm always amazed how easily each video flows (and that's a credit to your editing and storytelling).
yeah not many people knows about her, it brought tears to my eyes and im a tough person, no wonder jaina started breaking there who wouldnt. Poor lil gnome.
I haven’t played WoW except for a free 2 week trial but I have been playing hearthstone as a mage main for a few years and wanted to learn more about the backstory behind Jaina. Now I know thank you for making an awesome video.
I think this is by far the longest lore video I've ever watched but it was definitely worth the time!! Also awesome job covering her story keep up the good work man
Jaina makes me so depressed. She did nothing wrong and the world keeps punishing her for it. And then the writers sideline all her important relationships after Tides of War to instead focus on a romance with some guy she's known for 5 seconds. Such wasted story potential (like the now shifted dynamic with Varian, Anduin and Thrall) all sidelined to give focus to an out-of-the-blue romantic subplot!?
Her and Sylvannas have had a rough history. Both have hardened them into what they are in current expansion. It may have been different if Jaina stopped Arthus at Stratholme, or there would have been a different Lich King. There will always be “what if’s”.
@@Xzyvoj Thank You. I think you just put into words why I've always admired those two so much. A kind of sisters in suffering thing going on, without realizing it.
This video was beautifully edited and captured the uncompromising saga of Jaina Proudmoore. Made me feel better for rolling all my vanilla mains on that server back in a day when Blackrock and Tichondrius were "all the rage". /shrug
holy shit!!! i've been looking for a full lore video of jaina since forever. she's what got me hooked on wow and playing a mage, so thank you Nobbel : >
Jaina has ben my favorite char sense i started playing in 2012. And i can thank you for it. you are really good at explaining a charecter with all the needed details. nothing more nothing less just what u need to know.
Jaina can not seem to stop being betrayed. She certainly have good reasons to hate the hord. But more then anything this just highlight how silly and stupid making Garrosh warchief was. And when he ordered the attack on Jainas city the people that she had helped before just let it happen.
Thrall stepped down so that Garrosh would do for the Horde what he himself could not. Because ultimately Garrosh's actions (and Sylvanas's) may have been morally bad, but strategically good.
Theramore was ACTIVELY fighting the horde in the barrens, mulgore, and Durotar before garrosh ordered the attack on theramore. They officially sided with the alliance and were shuttling alliance forces through the city along with their own troops. Theramore HAD to be destroyed, an allaince city within spitting distanec of the home of three Horde races and they are actively attacking the horde, wtf was the Horde supposed to do?
@@arkhaan7066 Yes. AFTER Garrosh started his war, not before. Sure, there was dissention and people were unhappy with the horde being bertter pals with Ratchet than they were, not trading wood with them, and ofc racist hogswash. However, the city as a whole was fiercely loyal to Jaina, so they never acted on those feelings (source wow.gamepedia.com/Theramore_Isle), despite various attempts at mutiny from her advisors etc. Then Garrosh starts invading territories left and right, and while the people of theramore trusted thrall, they had no love for the fascist Garrosh. So ofc they started helping the ones under attack. They were basically Sweden during WW2. They remained neutral, but helped the allies in secret, training norwegian resistance soldiers, running supplies over the border, etc., while still letting the germans take the train to Norway for the sake of appearance. So, nuke Sweden I suppose xD
@@pathosfear6290 yeah except Sweden didnt massacre Hamburg. Whereas the forces of Theramore quite literally invaded mulgore and the barrens and massacred the town of camp Taurajo. That is what got them nuked.
@@cameronmcewen9666 If people don't learn from their mistakes, and change due to them, they are bound to get stuck by the same problem time and again, and there are not many more Theramores to get nuked so she could relearn her lessons. Yet she chides Alleria for using the void to interrogate Horde prisoners, when mindraping them with the void ought to be the standard.
Oh my! I really love what you are doing! And your vid kinda set all the jumbled puzzle pieces about Jaina in one full picture in my mind. Now i kinda understand her motications and the chainge of heart move evidently
Arthas was once a great man. It's unfortunate the scourge corrupted him... I could only imagine not just losing the one you love but the tragedy of watching evil take them too
This actually helped me understand somethings about BFA. I'm going to watch the Battle of Thorns video next. I'm hoping to understand Slyvanas' reasoning for burning the tree, because I heard the collectors edition provides more information. When I was playing the game and it happened I was just left confused and feeling like it was a forced plot point to start off BFA. Leaving me not hyped for it lore wise at all. So hopefully your the other video explaining more will help. Amazing content man, thanks so much.
@@cameronmcewen9666 at least she noticed this in the end and stopped. But tbh they took everything from her 1st and she was filled with rage and revenge but was able to stop herself in the end
@@cameronmcewen9666 you don't have to like honestly thats your opinion but she is and always will be one of my favorite characters in the WoW universe and if I remember right Thrall or whatever the orc leader name was at the time was there trying to calm her down to
@@cameronmcewen9666 well I'm sorry to hear that but personally I see where she was coming from and was able to forgive her in the end and still managed to make it to one of my fave characters
@@cameronmcewen9666 Except Sylvanas and Garrosh are completely unjustified while Jaina and Arthas weren't. In Arthas case, up until Northrend, he was doing what he had to. The only two times Jaina has been unjustified were in letting Daelin die, and in hypocritically criticizing Alleria and Turalyon for their methods in tracking Sylvanas.
Been a fan of the Character since I was a kid playing Wc3 breaks my heart seeing her destroyed again and again as I grew up with the franchise, funny how that works.
@@ElderWillows you either need to drink less or learn how to spell. Just because you don't like coherent and mostly consistent writing with reasonable consequences/outcomes doesn't mean her story was ruined. If you wanna talk about a ruined story go for sylvanas, way easier target
Arthas is the whole reason I got into Warcraft and WOW. Frozen Throne and Wrath is my personal favorite. It would be sick to see him resurrected somehow and find Jaina, and join the fight for the Alliance. Wet dreams only. Lol.
I'm sure people have told you this, but as an American I like your Dutch accent. It's subtle, not thick, but it makes certain things sound more dramatic. Like the rolling r's in Thrrrrall.
He at least suspected most of it. I have sympathy for him. Should the horde had another warchief, he might have truly lead blood elf mages back to Dalaran.
Aethas was threatened with retaliation against he blood elf people if he warned Jaina that a sunreaver traitor was using dalaran to move the bell, He decided to save more lives of his endangered people.
There's a lot of inconsistencies in the moods and actions of Varian. he jumps from trust to hate at the flick of a switch, and back again. After the attack on UC he basically revels in an imaginary genocide of the Horde, and shows further hate during the meeting in Dalaran about Ulduar and lays the entire fault of the Wrath Gate at the feet of the Horde, rather than the demon who orchestrated it. But when Saurfang comes to collect his son's body, he's suddenly cool with courtesy? Nothing has happened between the Wrath Gate and the Saurfang fight to cause that shift in personality..
een vriend heeft me jou kanaal voorgesteld en ben er echt zot van. goed werk man. je zou boeken moeten vertellen aan het publiek dit zou echt iets voor jou zijn :-) je krijgt zo iemand mee in je verhaal alez bij mij werkt het toch elke keer ben ik gefascineerd aan het luisteren :-)
1:38:08 became a massive inside joke for me when I first did WoD, mainly a hatred for Jaina who at the time I had just started playing the game and didn't know much about Jaina, but it was a joke of hating her forever because she didn't let the horde in. All bad things happen to Jaina? GOOD! SHE NEVER LET THE HORDE IN! Thank you for attending my ted talk (I don't have Jaina anymore it just is a joke to hate her for myself now)
1:44:29 The foreshadowing of this entire panel at blizzcon with everything that came to light after Blizzard had it's big scandal hits way differently now 💀
Good video. Short addition tho. At 52:00 you tell the story about how conflicts between Horde and Alliance arised in Ashenvale again. I know it's cool to hate on the Horde right now and I am not even defending it, but attack including the skinning of Night Elves was done by the Twilight Hammer to start this war. I think it's not that important given the context of the matter you talk about in that section of the video. Otherwise great video though. Keep up the good work!
I love Jaina so much! She is my the most favourite character since 2003. But i hate the way she was written in BfA, it destroyed her amazing character! The Daughter of the seas is gone (and war crimes i don't like as well). I don't see problems in WoD, she does not want to destroy the horde and she is not mad then Khadgar comes with the horde. She helps make the ring more powerful and not being angry about working with the horde, she is just distrustful. She does not forgive the horde in WC, she only forgave Thrall and just she calms down. She never screams 'destroy the horde' anymore.
Just for the record, AA´s comment about being pretty evil has not aged well.... that was just an absolutely hilarious way for the video to end in this day xD
also during this time im pretty sure deathwing was still a lord in hiding forgot his name as its been awhile since i read arthas and day of the dragon but i remember reading something about OH prestor thats his name talkling to someone arthas saw
Considering blizzard's answer at the end there... Not to go full pyromancer here, but in all the Caverns of Time dungeons where the infinite dragonflight mess with the timeline, their intention was either to prevent the horde from ever forming (Durnholde, Black Morass) or to stop Arthas from becoming the Lich king. Maybe Jaina has a hand in their creation?
First: thank you very much for this video ...and i hope this war(boa) will in its result bring jaina peace with her past and with what she did, so she can be again what she was - because it was good, SHE was the good. ... and im a orc and later horde siding player ever since saying this: she was with thrall my favorite character of the warcraft universe.
I just thought of a MAJOR lore inconsistency with this story. Jaina had gone to Lordaeron for Hallows End. Now this is obviously an easy mistake for the warcraft writers to make as Hallows End is just supposed to be a holiday equivalent to our Halloween but it does technically have it’s own origin story. The origin of hallows end is supposed to celebrate the day **THE FORSAKEN BROKE FREE OF THE LICH KINGS WILL** Yet this entire scene happens before the plague, Arthas picking up frostmourne, or Sylvannas being killed by Arthas.
I wish for a reunion of Arthas and Jaina in shadowlands. I hope for Arthas to be on the path of redemption and ultimately continuing the love-story they began :)
@@G1dr4 Arthas ressurection is the ultima Blizzard's trump card. That would need a whole expansion focused solely on it So they couldn't waste him on shadowlands. But they did everything to promote it. First they have sent his soul to the maw instead of destroying it. Second they have sent Silvana to atone in the same location. It's called a Chekhov's gun. And someday it's going shoot.
Honestly, i think arhat didn't do anything wrong at Stratholme . I mean one city, to contain the plague and stop it's expanding to the whole kingdom and even further. yea, i'd do the same. spoiler : it did expand :P
Sylvannys disengaged before it was useful. And her shit had her sitting on a rooftop, charging up an AIMED SNIPER KILL SHOT. THAT'S right? She had a hybrid move.
1:30 on the red dragonflight attacking the alliance ships, I know they were forced to help the horde but what was stopping them from just helping the alliance fuckin obliterate the horde ships.
![The Story of Garrosh Hellscream - Full Version [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fpfu-Wj7lII/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Garrosh Hellscream - Full Version [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of Bwonsamdi (and the Loa) [Lore]](/img/n.gif)
Evening everybody! This video should have gone live like wednesday, but man it's been a wacky week for the lore. Hope you'll enjoy the full version of Jaina's story!
Nobbel87 Do the Story of Thrall 😀
No we should wait to see thralls storyline play out over the next years. His character arch is to open ended at the moment to do the full story of thrall. I really hope nobbel keeps thralls story for the perfect timing
Nobbel87 loved it great job as always you're a machine with this stuff man .
Can you do Mal'Ganis and the Nathrezim next?
Also, how did turelyion fordring and the other windrunner end up on argus??
1:34:49
The captions lol.
*"Eeeey its voljin"*
*"Yah really its voljin"*
Tjoink.
@@jeffreymccabe9931 daz dingooooo
I had been wondering about her story all week! Impeccable timing Nobbel! Great work as always
*watches Jaina try to keep Thrall and Garrosh from bumping into Varian* Seriously, why the hell did Thrall think making Garrosh Warchief would be a good idea?
he probably saw Grommash in Garrosh.
Should have been Cairne. 1000x Cairne.
Because we need a plot or some shit
I dunno
Garrosh did nothing wrong!!
I would have liked to have seen who in Horde ranks complained if Thrall appointed Cairne or Saurfang as the new Warchief. Vol'Jin would have probably raised some eyebrows since shadow hunters are kind of a suspicious bunch for non-trolls, elfs are in bad terms with trolls and some orcs see them as physically inferior race, like Garrosh demonstrated. Cairne and Saurfang had both were better fighters than Garrosh, were way smarter and experienced and had unquestionable respect of the entire faction. And most importantly Garrosh didn't want the title and had huge respect for at least Saurfang and would have served him without question as his second-in-command. But Blizzard needs to have lore reason for AvH battlegrounds, as if the game didn't have any other game mechanics unexplained by lore.
38:17 Jesus Christ that was uncalled for Varian. Holy shit, the way the voice actor says that line with such thinly veiled contempt really drives it home.
Yeah that shit was brutally hardcore.
Varian lost everything to the Orc Horde many times over, including people in and the actual city where he said that. For his character, it would honestly make perfect sense even after he made his final, balanced peace within himself, and that hadn't happened yet.
and completely accurate, remember this was even before the Horde went full villain mode in cataclysm.
If anything it's deeply prophetic.
Was it though? Nothing he said is legitimatelly wrong. As time demonstrated time and again. Saying that Azeroth would have been better without the Horde may be debatable, but that without Orcs Azeroth would be paradise of peace is a fact.
@@TheBayzent that’s not accurate at all
"Im not proud anymore" -Jaina Proudmoore
I am learning so much from this I never got to in game... Thank you.
I am at 1:30:50 and this hit hard: "Every reprisal is itself an act of aggression, and every act of aggression triggers immediate reprisal."
EmeraldWings90 best line WoW has ever written.
*As a "newer" player who learned the Warcraft universe through Warcraft 3, I always felt a special connection with the key characters during the third war, like Thrall, Cairne, Arthas, Jaina.*
Why I absolutely sympathize with Jaina, although because of game balancing reasons, the eternal conflict between the Alliance and the Horde will never end.
Horde: Invaded Azeroth. Destroyed human kingdoms. Ravaged through the Eastern Kingdoms. Killed her brother.
Jaina: All I ever want was to study. Studies in Dalaran the art of magic.
*Helped Thrall to save Grom with the soul gem from the demon corruption.*
Horde: Killed her father.
Jaina: "The Horde is no longer our enemy father. You don't understand."
*Saved Thrall and Garrosh from being taken prisoner or killed by Varian during Siege of Undercity. Helped Sylvanas get her Capital back which otherwisse would fall back to the Alliance.*
*Helped Baine and the Tauren to gain their city back, even when Garrosh & Orcs refused to help.*
Horde: Nuke her own founded City/Kingdom of survivors of Lordaeron. Including mana-radiation bombed her mentor Rhonin, her first little apprentice Kinndy, and everybody else she cared there. Betrayal of Horde members within the Kirin Tor.
Jaina: Instead of nuking Orgrimmar as payback - *"It's important to separate the Horde from it's people. Alliance and Horde can work together."*
Horde: Betrayal of Horde members within the Kirin tor the second time to steal the divine bell. Caused Anduin who call Jaina "Aunt Jaina" ever since to get nearly killed & bones crushed.
Jaina: *Allright boys, I've had it.*
Why people continues to say she is a warmonger, and yet continue to support the current warchief, who
-tortured the living. Experimented on them to create more atrocities.
-plague bombed various cities, which even Garrosh forbit to do, because it shares similarities with the Lich King.
-invaded a neutral Kingdom (for more living space and security I guess), plague bombed everything there.
-during the Legion invasion tried to betray and enslave a powerful ally simply for her own benefits.
-invaded Kalimdor, genocide on an ancient species , for even more living space and security I guess again.
-wanted for herself free will. But killed her own citizens / civilians (also with free will), despite they clearly decided to stay loyal to her.
-plague bombed and killed her own soldiers, and raised them as mindless corpses again. Despite she hates Arthas for the exactly the same thing he did to her. So what shall the revived think of her, by her own standards, then?
Theramore heavily supported the Alliance war effort in Southern Barrent, a region simply too close to 3 Horde capitals.
Compared to that all the Alliance capitals were a safe heaven from the horde.
It was strategic target that any reasonable general would love to take out, and the peaceful and 'neutral' Jaina was the one that made it so.
Garrosh even gave them enough time to evacuate all the civilians, everyone that stayed, stayed to fight, ergo only military personnel died at Theramore.
Jaina, on the other hand, almost struck at a city with god knows how many civilians in it.
She needes both a lot of persuation AND force to be stopped.
Sunreavers did look the other way when Horde used Dalaran (they didn't actively help), but in all fairness Jaina herself though about actively putting Kirin Tor on the side of the Alliance, didn't she? That is what she did eventually.
Garrosh did give them enough time to evacuate, but then hunted them down on sea and tortured them to death in Orgrimmar.We could only save a few in SoO.
Wasn't that just raid flavor or did i miss something else?
Metzen quite clearly separated lore from raid flavor.
Even if that was canon Jaina was about to obliterate a whole city full of civilians before she ever learned about that.
"was about to obliterate"
But in the end, she decided to *NOT* obliterate a whole city.
Despite her beloved city and home was manabomb-nuked of the Horde, it's capital she still spared.
Which you cannot say from other female leaders, plague bombing cities, kingdoms, genociding other races, burn the living, burn a World Tree.
And this makes the difference.
It took hell of a lot force and reason to keep her from killing thousands of innocent civilians, i do understand her pain but she brought it on herself by throwing away her neutrality and she is too unstable to insist so hard on such an awful decision.
Don't misunderstand me please, i don't defend Sylvanas at all. She is a genocidal maniac that is much worse then Jaina. But Jaina is someone that should be kept under tight watch for sure, perhaps even imprisoned.
Thrall: "You disappoint me Garrosh"
*3 minutes later*
Thrall: "You're the new warchief, fuck off I need to talk to the earth"
Yeah, I hear this kind of thing happens a lot in WOW.
@@wyveriusblackfire3834 LOL No it doesn't FAR from it. That's not at all what happened, Thrall mainly made Garrosh Warchief because of all the good things he's done AGAINST the lich king's armies in Northend. That's it and that should be obvious.
@@Gadget-Walkmen whaaaaat? You mean he didn't pomote him for punching Varian!? No waaaaaaaaaaaaay *shocked pikachu*
@@GorehowlBeardhead lol what are you even saying? Not once did Garrosh punish Varian at all. Your obnoxious sarcasm isn’t helping anything at all, your just being annoying, that’s all!
@@Gadget-Walkmen 'not once did Garrosh punch Varian'
...are you a complete idiot? Or have you just not played the game you're running your mouth about?
Jaina Proudmoore is without a doubt my favorite female character in Warcraft lore. Thank you Nobbel for the (as always) thorough overview and details! In just under 2 hours you brilliantly laid out two decades of character history. I'm always amazed how easily each video flows (and that's a credit to your editing and storytelling).
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Remember before MOP how people would chant "Jaina and Thrall sitting in a tree. K-i-s-s-i-n-g?" No? Just me? Yeah *cough* good times.
I remember ; - ;
And then Aggra happened
I member
Must of been a different time line.
what happen to Kinndy is just too sad, and the memory in dalaran, ninja cutting onions
yeah not many people knows about her, it brought tears to my eyes and im a tough person, no wonder jaina started breaking there who wouldnt. Poor lil gnome.
I haven’t played WoW except for a free 2 week trial but I have been playing hearthstone as a mage main for a few years and wanted to learn more about the backstory behind Jaina. Now I know thank you for making an awesome video.
I think this is by far the longest lore video I've ever watched but it was definitely worth the time!!
Also awesome job covering her story keep up the good work man
Jaina makes me so depressed.
She did nothing wrong and the world keeps punishing her for it.
And then the writers sideline all her important relationships after Tides of War to instead focus on a romance with some guy she's known for 5 seconds. Such wasted story potential (like the now shifted dynamic with Varian, Anduin and Thrall) all sidelined to give focus to an out-of-the-blue romantic subplot!?
jeramahia123 She abandoned Arthas when he needed her most
Her and Sylvannas have had a rough history. Both have hardened them into what they are in current expansion. It may have been different if Jaina stopped Arthus at Stratholme, or there would have been a different Lich King. There will always be “what if’s”.
@@Xzyvoj Thank You. I think you just put into words why I've always admired those two so much.
A kind of sisters in suffering thing going on, without realizing it.
This video was beautifully edited and captured the uncompromising saga of Jaina Proudmoore. Made me feel better for rolling all my vanilla mains on that server back in a day when Blackrock and Tichondrius were "all the rage".
/shrug
Because devolving into hatred for the horde is totally not doing a thing wrong, not is using the worlds most powerful mages as a weapon, right?
So glad you made this. Her warbringer cinematic was amazing.
The history of Jaina, as narrated by Dracula
holy shit!!! i've been looking for a full lore video of jaina since forever. she's what got me hooked on wow and playing a mage, so thank you Nobbel : >
Jaina is one of my most favorite characters in fiction.
Jaina has ben my favorite char sense i started playing in 2012. And i can thank you for it. you are really good at explaining a charecter with all the needed details. nothing more nothing less just what u need to know.
Jaina can not seem to stop being betrayed. She certainly have good reasons to hate the hord. But more then anything this just highlight how silly and stupid making Garrosh warchief was. And when he ordered the attack on Jainas city the people that she had helped before just let it happen.
Thrall couldn't be so stupid to not know this, only not expecting such large the scale.
Thrall stepped down so that Garrosh would do for the Horde what he himself could not. Because ultimately Garrosh's actions (and Sylvanas's) may have been morally bad, but strategically good.
Theramore was ACTIVELY fighting the horde in the barrens, mulgore, and Durotar before garrosh ordered the attack on theramore. They officially sided with the alliance and were shuttling alliance forces through the city along with their own troops. Theramore HAD to be destroyed, an allaince city within spitting distanec of the home of three Horde races and they are actively attacking the horde, wtf was the Horde supposed to do?
@@arkhaan7066 Yes. AFTER Garrosh started his war, not before. Sure, there was dissention and people were unhappy with the horde being bertter pals with Ratchet than they were, not trading wood with them, and ofc racist hogswash. However, the city as a whole was fiercely loyal to Jaina, so they never acted on those feelings (source wow.gamepedia.com/Theramore_Isle), despite various attempts at mutiny from her advisors etc.
Then Garrosh starts invading territories left and right, and while the people of theramore trusted thrall, they had no love for the fascist Garrosh. So ofc they started helping the ones under attack. They were basically Sweden during WW2. They remained neutral, but helped the allies in secret, training norwegian resistance soldiers, running supplies over the border, etc., while still letting the germans take the train to Norway for the sake of appearance. So, nuke Sweden I suppose xD
@@pathosfear6290 yeah except Sweden didnt massacre Hamburg. Whereas the forces of Theramore quite literally invaded mulgore and the barrens and massacred the town of camp Taurajo. That is what got them nuked.
Her father was so right, she was naive and knew nothing and she would learn before the end.
@@cameronmcewen9666 If people don't learn from their mistakes, and change due to them, they are bound to get stuck by the same problem time and again, and there are not many more Theramores to get nuked so she could relearn her lessons. Yet she chides Alleria for using the void to interrogate Horde prisoners, when mindraping them with the void ought to be the standard.
Oh my! I really love what you are doing! And your vid kinda set all the jumbled puzzle pieces about Jaina in one full picture in my mind. Now i kinda understand her motications and the chainge of heart move evidently
I miss Arthas.
so do we all
Hes no hero
Arthas was once a great man. It's unfortunate the scourge corrupted him...
I could only imagine not just losing the one you love but the tragedy of watching evil take them too
He'll come back
Arthas was a scumbag
This actually helped me understand somethings about BFA. I'm going to watch the Battle of Thorns video next. I'm hoping to understand Slyvanas' reasoning for burning the tree, because I heard the collectors edition provides more information. When I was playing the game and it happened I was just left confused and feeling like it was a forced plot point to start off BFA. Leaving me not hyped for it lore wise at all. So hopefully your the other video explaining more will help.
Amazing content man, thanks so much.
I got myself a cup of tea and some biscuits for this one.
Jaina has such a sad story she been through so much and was still able to stay strong for the most part
@@cameronmcewen9666 well tbh she did have a good reason to
@@cameronmcewen9666 at least she noticed this in the end and stopped. But tbh they took everything from her 1st and she was filled with rage and revenge but was able to stop herself in the end
@@cameronmcewen9666 you don't have to like honestly thats your opinion but she is and always will be one of my favorite characters in the WoW universe and if I remember right Thrall or whatever the orc leader name was at the time was there trying to calm her down to
@@cameronmcewen9666 well I'm sorry to hear that but personally I see where she was coming from and was able to forgive her in the end and still managed to make it to one of my fave characters
@@cameronmcewen9666 Except Sylvanas and Garrosh are completely unjustified while Jaina and Arthas weren't. In Arthas case, up until Northrend, he was doing what he had to. The only two times Jaina has been unjustified were in letting Daelin die, and in hypocritically criticizing Alleria and Turalyon for their methods in tracking Sylvanas.
Herculean effort gathering all of these details, and so helpful. Patreon supporter as well as a Twitch sub now.
In the words of Arthas, “Finally.”
In the words of Garithos: "NEVER TRUST AN ELF!"
@I Am Who I Am "This is more like it."
Been a fan of the Character since I was a kid playing Wc3 breaks my heart seeing her destroyed again and again as I grew up with the franchise, funny how that works.
Idk how she's been "destroyed", when a character exists for 20+ years there's bound to be some changes in them
@@TenzinBeifongIII story was destroyed of you don't agree that's you fan.
@@ElderWillows you either need to drink less or learn how to spell. Just because you don't like coherent and mostly consistent writing with reasonable consequences/outcomes doesn't mean her story was ruined. If you wanna talk about a ruined story go for sylvanas, way easier target
@@TenzinBeifongIII lol OK mate.
Arthas is the whole reason I got into Warcraft and WOW. Frozen Throne and Wrath is my personal favorite. It would be sick to see him resurrected somehow and find Jaina, and join the fight for the Alliance. Wet dreams only. Lol.
Ty again for deepening my understanding of these characters
I'm sure people have told you this, but as an American I like your Dutch accent. It's subtle, not thick, but it makes certain things sound more dramatic. Like the rolling r's in Thrrrrall.
I was literally just watching the first part of this
My 2nd fav character's lore! Thank you for this Nobbel so much!
Came here just to leave a like since I already watched the 4 parts
Enjoyable as always Nobbel, thank you ^.^
You're an excellent story teller. I like how you don't cut anything out, it adds to the story.
46:05 I see you, Mark of the Hidden Satyr!
The way that Admiral Daelin always faces the throne at the beginning of Frozen Throne's final chapter, he knows his jig is up.
Poor Jaina always getting interrupted like 99% of the time in the warcraft games.
She is by far my favorite wow character
You should make all your lore videos on a podcast!:)
Amazing summary, didn't expect the range of emotions I felt about the whole story. Damn. Bfa will be liTTT.
ill follow her to the ends of the earth
Afrasiabi's statement towards the end of this video seems rather fitting right now. "She's as evil as i am"...
I only started playing wow a few years back and never really cared for janias character until now. So worth the hour and a half
Best lore channel imo
1:30:50 - little shaky mouse pointing out that Aethas might have known of Garrosh's plan?
He at least suspected most of it. I have sympathy for him. Should the horde had another warchief, he might have truly lead blood elf mages back to Dalaran.
Aethas was threatened with retaliation against he blood elf people if he warned Jaina that a sunreaver traitor was using dalaran to move the bell, He decided to save more lives of his endangered people.
Admiral Daelin be rolling in his grave when Jaina said something like the Horde will pay with blood
soon as i got the notification i went to the store to buy some popcorn :)
lmao remember that time Varian Wrynn prevented Garroshs execution and lead to the death of millions, including himself?
There's a lot of inconsistencies in the moods and actions of Varian. he jumps from trust to hate at the flick of a switch, and back again. After the attack on UC he basically revels in an imaginary genocide of the Horde, and shows further hate during the meeting in Dalaran about Ulduar and lays the entire fault of the Wrath Gate at the feet of the Horde, rather than the demon who orchestrated it. But when Saurfang comes to collect his son's body, he's suddenly cool with courtesy? Nothing has happened between the Wrath Gate and the Saurfang fight to cause that shift in personality..
Did you miss the part of Varian's personality where he has two separated entities within him?
My boi Asmongold was watching the story of Saurfang and now I wanted to watch this story and you just made it easier for me. Great timing!
lol i just woke up from sleep next to my laptop and this video was on and i had apperantly watched half of it lol
are you making the machinema vids or is it from some fan made series? 1:11:24
52:03 HOLY what? I had to pause after that graphic description, jesus effing christ I never heard of that before
Don’t ever deny me Nobbel ~
That Alex A comment at blizzcon hasn’t aged well😂
Awesome video! Thank you very much!
I'm so sorry Nobbel... I'm guilty of watching all your lore videos on my other monitor and forget to tab out and thumbs up your awesome vids!!!!!
een vriend heeft me jou kanaal voorgesteld en ben er echt zot van. goed werk man. je zou boeken moeten vertellen aan het publiek dit zou echt iets voor jou zijn :-) je krijgt zo iemand mee in je verhaal alez bij mij werkt het toch elke keer ben ik gefascineerd aan het luisteren :-)
Thank you, very interesting! What an effort you made!
1:38:08 became a massive inside joke for me when I first did WoD, mainly a hatred for Jaina who at the time I had just started playing the game and didn't know much about Jaina, but it was a joke of hating her forever because she didn't let the horde in.
All bad things happen to Jaina? GOOD! SHE NEVER LET THE HORDE IN!
Thank you for attending my ted talk (I don't have Jaina anymore it just is a joke to hate her for myself now)
I'm so glad the events of BfA could finally heal Jaina! Jaina, Thrall, Baine and the others should finally get the peace they are fighting for!
Even two years on, just before shadowlands, this is SO insightful!
1:44:29 The foreshadowing of this entire panel at blizzcon with everything that came to light after Blizzard had it's big scandal hits way differently now 💀
I still can't believe how long it has taken me to find your channel. But Coolio I can spam a huge amount of excellent content. Yae ❤🎉
Good video. Short addition tho. At 52:00 you tell the story about how conflicts between Horde and Alliance arised in Ashenvale again. I know it's cool to hate on the Horde right now and I am not even defending it, but attack including the skinning of Night Elves was done by the Twilight Hammer to start this war. I think it's not that important given the context of the matter you talk about in that section of the video.
Otherwise great video though. Keep up the good work!
Very hard video to make, it's great, gratz and thanks
I love Jaina so much! She is my the most favourite character since 2003. But i hate the way she was written in BfA, it destroyed her amazing character! The Daughter of the seas is gone (and war crimes i don't like as well).
I don't see problems in WoD, she does not want to destroy the horde and she is not mad then Khadgar comes with the horde. She helps make the ring more powerful and not being angry about working with the horde, she is just distrustful. She does not forgive the horde in WC, she only forgave Thrall and just she calms down. She never screams 'destroy the horde' anymore.
Amazing video!
Thank you for your hard work and great explanation. I bow to you man!
Just for the record, AA´s comment about being pretty evil has not aged well.... that was just an absolutely hilarious way for the video to end in this day xD
also during this time im pretty sure deathwing was still a lord in hiding forgot his name as its been awhile since i read arthas and day of the dragon but i remember reading something about OH prestor thats his name talkling to someone arthas saw
Jaina is probably one of my favorite characters in wow hands down
Can't wait for War 1, 2, and 3 to be remastered :)
Game of thrones level show documenting the life and trial of Lady Jaina Proudmoore would be GOLD
Considering blizzard's answer at the end there... Not to go full pyromancer here, but in all the Caverns of Time dungeons where the infinite dragonflight mess with the timeline, their intention was either to prevent the horde from ever forming (Durnholde, Black Morass) or to stop Arthas from becoming the Lich king. Maybe Jaina has a hand in their creation?
"something about Jaina" the movie lol
TLDR: She's amazing AF
never stop making theese awesome videos! they are really interesting good job ^^N
Amazing content as always.
First: thank you very much for this video
...and i hope this war(boa) will in its result bring jaina peace with her past and with what she did, so she can be again what she was - because it was good, SHE was the good.
... and im a orc and later horde siding player ever since saying this: she was with thrall my favorite character of the warcraft universe.
I needed this❤
i never would have thought arthas and jaina's first fuck would have been documented in the lore, yet here we are
I just thought of a MAJOR lore inconsistency with this story.
Jaina had gone to Lordaeron for Hallows End.
Now this is obviously an easy mistake for the warcraft writers to make as Hallows End is just supposed to be a holiday equivalent to our Halloween but it does technically have it’s own origin story.
The origin of hallows end is supposed to celebrate the day **THE FORSAKEN BROKE FREE OF THE LICH KINGS WILL** Yet this entire scene happens before the plague, Arthas picking up frostmourne, or Sylvannas being killed by Arthas.
I wish for a reunion of Arthas and Jaina in shadowlands. I hope for Arthas to be on the path of redemption and ultimately continuing the love-story they began :)
Ah yes, this so didn't age well...
@@G1dr4 Arthas ressurection is the ultima Blizzard's trump card. That would need a whole expansion focused solely on it So they couldn't waste him on shadowlands.
But they did everything to promote it. First they have sent his soul to the maw instead of destroying it. Second they have sent Silvana to atone in the same location.
It's called a Chekhov's gun. And someday it's going shoot.
@@bydloshkolnikNo they seem to have used Arthas as an analogue for the toxic masculinity in their company and now he's 'forgotten forever'
@@funoff3207 Well as grandpa Lenin once said: For the 300% profit a capitalist would sell you the noose to hang himself from.
@@funoff3207sexual assault is not masculine. It is toxic however.
Honestly, i think arhat didn't do anything wrong at Stratholme . I mean one city, to contain the plague and stop it's expanding to the whole kingdom and even further. yea, i'd do the same.
spoiler : it did expand :P
got a little steamy for a moment there with arthas
I had to pause the video because you made me want to play WOW again.
Watching this and realizing that there was a time that Malfurion/Tyrande , Thrall and Jaina didn't knew each other...
At 1:07:23n the hidden pet running in the background is hilarious!
i find jaina's story most intriguing, i wonder how she will develop further into the story line
Bas de raaij hello. I am from the future. It doesn’t get much better. It makes me love jaina more.
never realized the voice actor of the prophet was also raziel from LoK " i'm not your enemy Kain, now and forever i am your soulrever
Sylvannys disengaged before it was useful.
And her shit had her sitting on a rooftop, charging up an AIMED SNIPER KILL SHOT. THAT'S right? She had a hybrid move.
The hidden satyr enchant @46:05 :D
So how About a recap of Sylvanas? :)
Well this is going into my favorites.
1:30 on the red dragonflight attacking the alliance ships, I know they were forced to help the horde but what was stopping them from just helping the alliance fuckin obliterate the horde ships.