Oh the good old days where Thermaltake had all these new interesting (but not always practical) products instead of just copying whatever is popular... brings a tear to the eye.
I still remember the golden orb. killer heatsink for those that couldn't afford a alpha heatsink and didn't want a fop38. Ended up drilling through the core and installing a brass barb from each end and made a waterblock out of a Gorb before mainstream blocks were a thing.
I loved all that copper fin and heatpipe stuff. Much more interesting and artistic (in a mechanical way) than slapping some overstyled " gamer" transformer armor or rgb plastic all over a component or cooler.
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@@volvo09 Yea like every motherboard had in the C2D era like P45, P45 motherboards etc, heatpipes and copper fins everywhere that actually worked! Now they slap a aluminum block on it and call it art... I mean cooling....
Same with heatsinks on mobo VRMs and m.2 drives. While chasing the "ooh, so shiny and smooth!" aesthetic, the functionality is ignored. Quite a bit of material could be saved when making those with proper surface area. Instead we get aluminium bricks with a couple cuts here and there.
@@der8auer-en I checked my Corsair MP Force 500gb on both a B560 Aorus Pro and Z590 Gaming X recently and I found out that the motherboard heatsink actually cooled my M2 better than the stock heatsink. IIRC there was something like a 10-15 gram weight difference in the motherboard heatsinks favour. This was tested in a Meshify C with 2 x Corsair ML140's on the front, Zotac Twin Edge GPU (with fan stop so always warm near the M2) and a Corsair H100i RGB XT in the roof and ofc the Fractal fan in the back.
reminds me of the original rampage extreme motherboard for lga775. i have one in the basement somewhere, thing has proper heatsinks and heat pipes. came with a waterblock for the vrm and stuff in the box too.
yeah hate those alu vedges and plastic covers over the VRM's so hard to find motherboards with ACTUALLY finned heatsinks on the VRM's and then on top finding them without the plastic covers that block any and all cooling
They were never heat spreaders. I've still got an original DDR (aka DDR1) pair that came with some of the first heat spreaders. They used FOAM tape, thus were always only for looks. My first DDR2 set actually ran cooler with the 'spreaders' removed.
Heat spreaders were always purely for esthetics, and at best, they performed no worse than naked sticks; at worst, it could hurt performance, especially when overclocking. The difference between DDR & DDR2, and even some early DDR3 and modern DIMMs, is that you could get the same hardware with or without "heat" spreaders, whereas now naked DIMMs are relegated to low-end hardware, and all the good stuff is always wrapped. There is a reason some extreme overclockers will remove the shell off the DIMM.
PC market has been this way for a while, too focused on visuals. GN seem to have done a good job of getting case manufacturers to look a bit harder at cooling, and the actual function of cases. Perhaps with Linus looking to do a lot more serious testing with the lab he is setting up, the industry could start to focus more on function than form. (Ironic that the Thermaltake cooler looked great and worked well). I tend to find things that are designed to function well, also look nice, at least too me!
If they began to focus on function over form. The pc cases would in most cases be the same. Just for fun design your own pc cases even if it is on cad.
I have two problems with GN case reviews: - He compliments the PSU shrounds that only add extra expense to the case, make it harder to use and eliminate the precious bottom intake fan slot, worsening specially GPU cooling. - He totally dismisses more closed "silence focused" cases w/o testing or even citing the reasons for that design: blocking HDDs seeking noise, components electrical whining, etc, that an "airflow" case will leak. PS: if someone knows a review site or youtuber that still does case reviews with mechanical HDDs (prefferentially 3 or 4 7200rpm 3.5" HDs), and not only NAS-only focused cases, I'm interested.
@@Odd_Taxi_epi04 GN's whole testing methodology favours airflow focused cases. Everything from the testing to the graphs. It's not the right test suite for "silence focused" cases.
i did a test on tridenz neo's with and without RGB's running Karhu for 30 mins, and the difference was negligible (.7C) which is basically margin of error
@@juanbrits3002 He never made decent videos. He just fooled people for a long time. He's always been an idiot. I stopped watching him after he gave Asus shit for their "bad motherboard" when he was trying to use a reviewer sample motherboard for his main rig and couldn't figure out that the review sample board isn't compatible with the public release bios. Complete pleb move to go blasting a company with completely false allegations just because he's a "computer builder" who doesn't know what motherboard versions are
I'm going to suggest that nearly all pcs with memory running above JDEC will have airflow, usually in the form of a fan sitting right above the memory, but even fanless designs will mostly have the motherboard oriented vertically which will allow for convection. I'd like to see the same naked vs heatspreader testing done with the motherboard vertical, with and without a fan sucking through the ram.
If you have active cooling on the sticks it's actually better to run them naked compared to stock heatspreaders. The difference is very minimal, and any decent quality heatsinks will be better.
The amount of airflow generated by convection from something like this is extremely negligible. Any fans you have anywhere in your case will have a greater affect on the airflow than convection.
This is why a lot of manufacturer heatsinks are configured to blow through and down onto the mobo. Closest thing is RAM and then power delivery circuits.
Me too, reminds me of the good (bad?) old days when huge copper, or at least copper coloured, heatsinks stalked the earth. I love the retro cool looks, I think they look brilliant in copper colour, and they actually do work.
i remember in my first or second ever pc, i bought 2 memory sticks that had a heatpipe. everyone told me i was crazy. but now i know, i was just future proofing my memory.
I was using a very old be quiet air cooler until recently and could only use now so called "low profile" RAM, which is very weirdly sometimes more expensive than RGB ram, and way harder to find, for a thing that used to be a standard... I have vengeance LPX too because of that fact.. I don't care if manufacturers make colorful and stylish sticks, everything for everybody, but I want functional ones, and that wasn't cutting it for me. It's a small part of the reason (upgradability, my sticks are fine for now) why I swhitched to an AIO. "Tech upgrades" are sometimes very tone-deaf to me...
As someone using a Alpenfoehn Blackridge with a 120mm fan I get you. I have to use VLP memory. The sad thing is really that it's very easy for all ram to be made as vlp, and then just use the saved space for cooling... Dimms wouldn't have to be any taller than even LPX but would have massive cooling potential
The cheapest and easiest solution is to use any random/cheap case fan and point it straight at the dimms. It can reduce temps by 5-20C depending on the scenario (dram voltage, overlock, timings, workload / stress test, etc). Nothing fancy is needed, just tie some strings to the ceiling of the case, thread them through the screw holes of a fan. Some fans you can just set on top of the graphics card. It will look silly, but it works like a charm. As you said the different heat spreaders on dimms don't really make a difference, which is because they only absorb a little heat but can't really dissipate it. As soon as you have active airflow, you get a massive reduction in temps on ram stress tests.
I do the same thing. I actually set 2 fans on my gpu, one cools the m.2, the other cools the ram. Overall they move a lot of air over the upper motherboard. My case has no side panels so the fans can move fresh air
Nice test!! Those thermaltake products back in the day were always unique and futuristic looking but practical! I have some cool ddr2 1066 ram as well OCZ Reaper with cooling pipes too but unfortunately stopped working. Retro hardware recently did a whole thermaltake orb build with msi 775 board with orbs sticking out everywhere!! Really neat!!
While a flir thermal camera won't give accurate temps, it would still be interesting to see where the heat is on both the modded and non-modded sticks.
A good thermal image camera with emissive set correctly will give a pretty accurate reading (within 2 C of actual) ... from direct experience and can provide you a link to one of my channels where I do exactly that with my thermal image camera.
Back in 2009 I build my first PC with DDR2 "gold" ram from OCZ which came with a "golden" heat spreader, those were good times not like nowadays where everyone just looks for RGB on a friggin' ram stick...
I ended up buying the OCZ Platinum ram. I think it was DDR2 1066. I believe I still have them too, somewhere. I do remember seeing them in a box recently.
Thermal right had all kind of different style of air cooling. I remember they had a “flower” heat sink for the cpu. (You can see a picture on their instagram). I remember, I think, that they had heat sinks for rams. Had the tube but the heat sink spread over the entirety of the length of the ram. Too bad I found out about ‘‘em too late. Couldn’t and still can’t find ‘‘em anywhere.
I have a box of various 2 - 4 gb server memory... I think it's ddr2 ecc. and they all have burn/heat warnings on them and heat spreaders. I have a server in my stash that runs them, but never messed around with it for long enough that I touched them. They certainly look more "serious" than traditional ram!
I use EK water blocks on all my RAM modules, vaper chiller so I run sub ambient down to dew point, makes a huge difference performance and stability ... as RAM frequency increase and CPU get faster and faster heat becomes a significant problem for RAM modules (even more so when overclocking).
Well going over 55C might not cause instability right now, but when DDR5 will mature and we will get modules based on better IC's (and dual rank, as mentioned in the video) it might limit overclocking. It was already the case with some DDR4 b-die kits. Even some DDR3 IC's were temperature sensitive. I remember my 2400c10 B-die (DDR3 dual rank) based dominators throwing errors over 52C even at XMP settings.
There wasn't any "B-Die" DDR3 IC's.... B-Die is extremely temperature sensitive when above 4000mhz CL17. Mine won't post at 4266mhz CL 17 flat unless the IC's are 35c or less.
@@nexxusty There was - but it didn't have anything to do with DDR4 B-die. It was 4Gbit IC so 8GB modules already had to be dual rank. It was often used in 2133c9@1.6v and 2400c10@1.65v modules.
I respect any content creator who speaks against rgb puke stuff. I have 4 Xigmatek radiators purely for esthetics, to cover green pcb of oem Samsung B-die sticks. I thought that going from 1.5 volts to 1.1 will reduce the heat output, but at least those radiators aren't obsolete yet, lol
Why not add vertically extended heatsink design for the RAM sticks while remaining thin for not interfering the dual-channel quad RAM setup?
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I measured old DDR 512Mb PC2100 ECC/REG in my MPX760 board to about 65-68C under prime95! Could use those coolers! Also I hate RGB, not only is it an added cost and in some cases a security risk (software used) but it adds heat and also removes functional cooler designs for esthetic once. I long for the days when motherboards had heatpipes from the VRM to the chipset, to anything needing cooling connecting them and then proper fins from aluminum or copper. I also miss how compuer looked "cool" just by being designed to work as well as they could, not having decal trim. Like why do every dam Motherboard VRM today have the "fins" facing the I/O ports and then a plastic cover over it, how is any air gonna get in there to make it "effective", its like mounting your CPU cooler with the fins to the IHS, just dumb. But apparently we have forgotten how to design cooling for Motherboards and memory and other things.
It is the product of the bean counters and design 'eye-wash' folks getting a hold of the Board's ear, or by monopolizing the Board. (As in the board of directors or decision makers 'board':-)
Love the throw back hardware, man keep this up. Love these videos of crap from yesteryear. Especially when you are trying different things. Questions, could you make a set of heat spreaders for ram sticks. Im thinking of a light internal machining of a stock aluminum block. I bet you are thinking already. Seed planted.
I've got a Ripjawz kit, ddr4 4x8gb cl16 3600 cjr. Dropped about 10C pulling the IHS, I dont know if they used thermal adhesive, but if they did it was making poor contact on at least %60 of dimm area. The IHS was essentially trapping heat and holding it in.
Patriot Viper Steel 4400 - excellent value (DDR4) B-die, poor 'heat spreaders' and additional plastic insulation. Fixed B-die temperature sensitivity with a fan.
"DDR5 will be more efficient because it runs at lower voltages"-DDR5 sellers "But there are two parts to the wattage equations, how many amps do these run at"-Everyone else
Well I think it is not because of higher amps that cause the higher heat output. It is probably due to the PMIC integrated on DDR5 modules . With DDR5 DIMMs, power management moves from the motherboard to the DIMM itself. DDR5 DIMM have a 12V power management IC (PMIC) soldered on the RAM module itself .The PMIC distributes the 1.1 V according to JEDEC spec.
my Nephew is fascinated with building computers and overclocking, he led me to your channel and has been really inspired by some of your videos. (Breaking vintage benchmarks on Win-Xp specifically.) This is such a great hobby for teenagers. Thanks for that and happy overclocking 👽👽👽
thanks for the vid bro. i'm tired of spending 400$ on memory then replacing the rgb junk heatsink with real copper ones from my year2000 pentium 4 build lol
The LEDs may add another 2W of power consumption, but, that energy is mostly dissipated as light rather than as heat. The heatsink likely doesn't do anything because there's no airflow on them; it just simply takes longer for the DIMMs to heat up.
At what point does DIMM temperature effect RAM OC stability? Is it mostly the memory controller that needs to be kept cool, as long as the DIMMS are within their 95°C temp spec? Btw practical or not I just ordered two of those RamOrb kits off ebay along with a 5.25" cigarette lighter / ashtray. I'd like my next build to be early 2000s enthusiast themed, in my hideous blue Apevia X-Master htpc case
I got memory errors when the ram temperature got close to 40°C when I tried to push the speed and timings. They would run mem tests fin when they were cool, but once they got warm, errors started showing up. This was with 2x 3200MT 16GB Gskill Trident Z sticks on a Ryzen 2700X.
Likely you'd see similar performance on the Corsair sticks if you changed the thermal pads, however they likely use adhesive thermal pads to simplify the heatspreaders.
Just remember that back in the DDR1/2 days memory would barely touch twenty degrees above ambient! I had heatsinks on my DDR banks as well, they were just for show really as the temperature on them was barely 35 degrees... These days memory gets a little warmer, so 15 year old tech might be usable!
Most of these memory chips are rated up to like 115 degrees C or something ridiculous, the only HOT memory I ever saw was in my server when I choked the air supply.
Could you repeat this test with CPU Tower cooler and box cooler? The CPU fan force airflow around memory stick, unlike AIO. It would be nice to test how much of a diffrence does it make.
From what little testing I've done, I have fond that G.Skill's metal heat spreaders tend to cool DIMM's a good bit better than anything Corsair offers. (Including comparing G.Skill Trident RGB to Corsair Dominator RGB)
I had two copper ramsinks from old ddr2. So I put them on 2 of my 4 ddr4 dimms. I notice 2-3C lower temps on the ones with the heatsinks. It's a shame nobody sells quality copper heatsinks anymore. Most everything is cheapo aluminum with clear thermal tape.
best PC building channel on UA-cam. yes fake heat spreaders on gaming hardware are painful. almost enough to push a person to server hardware but i think will try to find a happy medium with workstation gear.
I have to wonder what your memory temps would be if you had a blow down cpu cooler. Even a tower cooler would probably be better for SOME airflow over the sticks.
The new DDR5 spec puts the PMIC on the DIM which is why they generate so much heat. It will be interesting to see in a few years when manufacturers start releasing modules with crazy voltages what kind of thermal solutions will be required.
I bought RGB RAM one time. It was when I was purposely building "the ugliest PC possible" because me and my brother found one of those old Alienware cases with the window on the side and we wanted to fill it with mismatched (but still functional) components.
6:24 chapter name: “what did wwe learn?” Is this a documentary on the wwe now? Seems wild in the middle of a critique of design choices which might lead to temperature problems on ddr5.
If that RamOrb would be fully matte black, it would actually look sick on a modern RIG tbh. I guess you can paint it with some matte black spray paint (that was specifically non-conductive and with great thermal conductivity, special for painting heatsinks, that yes it exists, so it would be completely possible)
A little anecdote about modern graphics card coolers and ram. Last winter I was driven mad because my computer would get horribly unstable while gaming after I installed a new graphics card. I could not understand why, as I had ran the same overclock for years without issue. Also I couldn't detect any instability from CPU or memory stress tests alone. It turned out that that the hot air blowing from the new graphics card at the overclocked ram was just enough to push them over the edge. The solution I found after 2 MONTHS of fiddling turned out to be a slight memory undervolt, some manually tuned secondary timings and a little fan to blow more air at the ram. All that to regain a percent of lost memory performance.
What a neat quirky old product. I think a heatpipe and fan are overkill and a properly designed heatspreader is more than adequate for memory, but it's still cool you can mount these old units to modern DIMMS. If the heatpipe is round enough it's probably possible to rotate the pipe in the clamp slightly so that two nearby/adjacent modules can clear each other, or you could even alternate top/bottom fan orientation if you were trying to really pack a system with overclocked memory back in the day. I remember using DDR1 memory based on Winbond UTT chips known for their high voltage tolerance and resulting high clock speeds; I mostly ran mine at 3.5-4V compared to the 2.5V DDR1 spec, and those sticks got pretty toasty despite the copper (!) heatspreaders they came with. Could easily manage 260-280Mhz at tight 2-2-2-5 timings which helped performance a lot on the then-current Athlon 64/X2 processors which benefited from low memory latency.
Just makes me think about how good down draft coolers like the NH-C14 was. Not only was it actually pretty strong as a CPU cooler with barely any noise, but it also cooled a full bank of ram and all the power delivery components around the CPU/ram itself. Honestly, I'm constantly thinking more an more about making a full switch back to normal air coolers and just ebay my hardline blocks, fittings, etc..
A bit like the old OCZ ReaperX DDR memory modules. Had to bend the heatpipe a little to fit a aircooler beside the memory, looked cool but i do not think they did anything meaningful to the temps, that could not have been done more elegantly.
The DRAM heatspreader is mostly for mechanical protection of the DIMM during handling. The capacitor in cell can hold charge up to 85°C. That's your limit. Since the DRAM chips are not flip chip design and have no conductive thermal pad (via) on the top side of the epoxy encapsulation the only way to cool them is to cool the PCBA as they cool through the solder pads only. That's why fan over bare PCBA is the best (also the fugliest).
Oh the good old days where Thermaltake had all these new interesting (but not always practical) products instead of just copying whatever is popular... brings a tear to the eye.
I still remember the golden orb. killer heatsink for those that couldn't afford a alpha heatsink and didn't want a fop38. Ended up drilling through the core and installing a brass barb from each end and made a waterblock out of a Gorb before mainstream blocks were a thing.
zalman too.
@@satibel Zalman had some weird, wonderful, and whacky coolers back in the day
that and zalman, miss those funky lookin coolers.
I have a really old thermaltake usb 2.0 or esata 2 bay external HDD. I am using it even right now
Hah, if ThermalTake sees this I swear they will refresh the RamOrb :D
They should.
We need more ridiculous looking things from the mid to late 2000's back to compete with all the rgb nonsense
They are cool though. If they do it i just hope they remake/improve them and not just a refresh
I loved all that copper fin and heatpipe stuff. Much more interesting and artistic (in a mechanical way) than slapping some overstyled " gamer" transformer armor or rgb plastic all over a component or cooler.
@@volvo09 Yea like every motherboard had in the C2D era like P45, P45 motherboards etc, heatpipes and copper fins everywhere that actually worked!
Now they slap a aluminum block on it and call it art... I mean cooling....
It's not a bad idea
Same with heatsinks on mobo VRMs and m.2 drives. While chasing the "ooh, so shiny and smooth!" aesthetic, the functionality is ignored. Quite a bit of material could be saved when making those with proper surface area. Instead we get aluminium bricks with a couple cuts here and there.
might be a good idea to compare the SSD cooling of different boards. Will add that to my list :)
@@der8auer-en I checked my Corsair MP Force 500gb on both a B560 Aorus Pro and Z590 Gaming X recently and I found out that the motherboard heatsink actually cooled my M2 better than the stock heatsink. IIRC there was something like a 10-15 gram weight difference in the motherboard heatsinks favour. This was tested in a Meshify C with 2 x Corsair ML140's on the front, Zotac Twin Edge GPU (with fan stop so always warm near the M2) and a Corsair H100i RGB XT in the roof and ofc the Fractal fan in the back.
reminds me of the original rampage extreme motherboard for lga775. i have one in the basement somewhere, thing has proper heatsinks and heat pipes. came with a waterblock for the vrm and stuff in the box too.
M.2 coolers do have purpose and measurable function
yeah hate those alu vedges and plastic covers over the VRM's so hard to find motherboards with ACTUALLY finned heatsinks on the VRM's and then on top finding them without the plastic covers that block any and all cooling
I remember the old days when heat spreaders...were heat spreaders
Heat insulators > heat spreaders. Gotta hoard that heat.
They were never heat spreaders.
I've still got an original DDR (aka DDR1) pair that came with some of the first heat spreaders. They used FOAM tape, thus were always only for looks. My first DDR2 set actually ran cooler with the 'spreaders' removed.
Heat spreaders were always purely for esthetics, and at best, they performed no worse than naked sticks; at worst, it could hurt performance, especially when overclocking. The difference between DDR & DDR2, and even some early DDR3 and modern DIMMs, is that you could get the same hardware with or without "heat" spreaders, whereas now naked DIMMs are relegated to low-end hardware, and all the good stuff is always wrapped. There is a reason some extreme overclockers will remove the shell off the DIMM.
PC market has been this way for a while, too focused on visuals. GN seem to have done a good job of getting case manufacturers to look a bit harder at cooling, and the actual function of cases. Perhaps with Linus looking to do a lot more serious testing with the lab he is setting up, the industry could start to focus more on function than form. (Ironic that the Thermaltake cooler looked great and worked well). I tend to find things that are designed to function well, also look nice, at least too me!
If they began to focus on function over form. The pc cases would in most cases be the same. Just for fun design your own pc cases even if it is on cad.
I have two problems with GN case reviews:
- He compliments the PSU shrounds that only add extra expense to the case, make it harder to use and eliminate the precious bottom intake fan slot, worsening specially GPU cooling.
- He totally dismisses more closed "silence focused" cases w/o testing or even citing the reasons for that design: blocking HDDs seeking noise, components electrical whining, etc, that an "airflow" case will leak.
PS: if someone knows a review site or youtuber that still does case reviews with mechanical HDDs (prefferentially 3 or 4 7200rpm 3.5" HDs), and not only NAS-only focused cases, I'm interested.
@@Odd_Taxi_epi04 GN's whole testing methodology favours airflow focused cases. Everything from the testing to the graphs. It's not the right test suite for "silence focused" cases.
@@Terrobility Unrestricted airflow is very important for keeping a system quiet.
@@keibohow69 Not true at all. In many instances they absolutely could make existing cases more function, they just don't bother.
The RGB slightly raising the temperature of the DIMMs reminds me of a video Jay did about the SSD throttling because of it's included RGB 🤣
Back when he still made decent videos...
Yea it had like 45 leds or something if I recall and overheated, because more RGB is better!
i did a test on tridenz neo's with and without RGB's running Karhu for 30 mins, and the difference was negligible (.7C) which is basically margin of error
@@juanbrits3002 He never made decent videos. He just fooled people for a long time. He's always been an idiot.
I stopped watching him after he gave Asus shit for their "bad motherboard" when he was trying to use a reviewer sample motherboard for his main rig and couldn't figure out that the review sample board isn't compatible with the public release bios. Complete pleb move to go blasting a company with completely false allegations just because he's a "computer builder" who doesn't know what motherboard versions are
@@twizz420 Jay doesn't even know difference between CPU node and CPU architecture.
I really like the copper on the fins, it looks much better than chrome or nickle plated. Makes me think of the old Zalman flower cooler.
I'm going to suggest that nearly all pcs with memory running above JDEC will have airflow, usually in the form of a fan sitting right above the memory, but even fanless designs will mostly have the motherboard oriented vertically which will allow for convection. I'd like to see the same naked vs heatspreader testing done with the motherboard vertical, with and without a fan sucking through the ram.
If you have active cooling on the sticks it's actually better to run them naked compared to stock heatspreaders. The difference is very minimal, and any decent quality heatsinks will be better.
The amount of airflow generated by convection from something like this is extremely negligible. Any fans you have anywhere in your case will have a greater affect on the airflow than convection.
This is why a lot of manufacturer heatsinks are configured to blow through and down onto the mobo. Closest thing is RAM and then power delivery circuits.
@@AntzuPC so I should get some aftermarket ones or run naked with fan?
Brings back memories of my old build, had the ram orb. Also, your cat is awesome
Agreed
I love these old Orb series products, I recently put a DuOrb cooler on a 9600GT, runs so cool now.
Me too, reminds me of the good (bad?) old days when huge copper, or at least copper coloured, heatsinks stalked the earth.
I love the retro cool looks, I think they look brilliant in copper colour, and they actually do work.
@@zakelwe Functional yet beatiful copper heatsink over crappy looking far less functional ones from current trends...any blooming day!
@@zakelwe Zalman coolers back then were pretty. I had a zalman cnps7700-cu. Heavy chunk of copper.
Thought i was the only one still using a 9600gt in 2021 🤣
@@AldrigEmber XD I should dig out my old 9600gt and see if it still works fine. it's missing a fan but that doesn't mean it won't work lol
i remember in my first or second ever pc, i bought 2 memory sticks that had a heatpipe. everyone told me i was crazy. but now i know, i was just future proofing my memory.
I was using a very old be quiet air cooler until recently and could only use now so called "low profile" RAM, which is very weirdly sometimes more expensive than RGB ram, and way harder to find, for a thing that used to be a standard... I have vengeance LPX too because of that fact..
I don't care if manufacturers make colorful and stylish sticks, everything for everybody, but I want functional ones, and that wasn't cutting it for me. It's a small part of the reason (upgradability, my sticks are fine for now) why I swhitched to an AIO.
"Tech upgrades" are sometimes very tone-deaf to me...
As someone using a Alpenfoehn Blackridge with a 120mm fan I get you. I have to use VLP memory.
The sad thing is really that it's very easy for all ram to be made as vlp, and then just use the saved space for cooling... Dimms wouldn't have to be any taller than even LPX but would have massive cooling potential
tbh I use corsair value select sticks most of the time.
Yup. LPX is what I use with my NH-D15
The cheapest and easiest solution is to use any random/cheap case fan and point it straight at the dimms. It can reduce temps by 5-20C depending on the scenario (dram voltage, overlock, timings, workload / stress test, etc). Nothing fancy is needed, just tie some strings to the ceiling of the case, thread them through the screw holes of a fan. Some fans you can just set on top of the graphics card. It will look silly, but it works like a charm. As you said the different heat spreaders on dimms don't really make a difference, which is because they only absorb a little heat but can't really dissipate it. As soon as you have active airflow, you get a massive reduction in temps on ram stress tests.
I do the same thing. I actually set 2 fans on my gpu, one cools the m.2, the other cools the ram. Overall they move a lot of air over the upper motherboard. My case has no side panels so the fans can move fresh air
Nice test!! Those thermaltake products back in the day were always unique and futuristic looking but practical! I have some cool ddr2 1066 ram as well OCZ Reaper with cooling pipes too but unfortunately stopped working.
Retro hardware recently did a whole thermaltake orb build with msi 775 board with orbs sticking out everywhere!! Really neat!!
While a flir thermal camera won't give accurate temps, it would still be interesting to see where the heat is on both the modded and non-modded sticks.
You mean it would be cool to see a thermal camera being used in a way they were made for.
Thermal cameras, pointed at plastic (plastic coated PCBs included, which are all of them in PCs), or painted metal, are very accurate.
A good thermal image camera with emissive set correctly will give a pretty accurate reading (within 2 C of actual) ... from direct experience and can provide you a link to one of my channels where I do exactly that with my thermal image camera.
Back in 2009 I build my first PC with DDR2 "gold" ram from OCZ which came with a "golden" heat spreader, those were good times not like nowadays where everyone just looks for RGB on a friggin' ram stick...
I think I still have some of that OCZ Gold RAM somewhere :D
I ended up buying the OCZ Platinum ram. I think it was DDR2 1066. I believe I still have them too, somewhere. I do remember seeing them in a box recently.
"Gold" is worse than RGB lmao
@@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart I mean, it's not real gold...but why is gold worse than RGB?
@@nicwilson89 Not the point, it looks gaudy as fuck
I love the aesthetic of this thing, it's legit steampunk
that ddr5 sticker on the ddr2 ram cooling box made me laugh xD
Okay Jimmy, Time to put some cool memory heatsinks to the market.
Thermal right had all kind of different style of air cooling. I remember they had a “flower” heat sink for the cpu. (You can see a picture on their instagram). I remember, I think, that they had heat sinks for rams. Had the tube but the heat sink spread over the entirety of the length of the ram. Too bad I found out about ‘‘em too late. Couldn’t and still can’t find ‘‘em anywhere.
also ram waterblocks, the 2 dimm ones are impossible to find, and the 4 dimm are almost as bad
I took some ECC DDR4 off the motherboard seconds after shutdown. That stick went flying because it was REALLY hot. :D
FBDIMMs are even worse.
I have a box of various 2 - 4 gb server memory... I think it's ddr2 ecc. and they all have burn/heat warnings on them and heat spreaders. I have a server in my stash that runs them, but never messed around with it for long enough that I touched them. They certainly look more "serious" than traditional ram!
Thermaltake got it right this time, thinking about the future, haha.
Does anyone know of any GOOD aftermarket RAM heatinks/active cooling these days? Those ramorbs are sick but impossible to find
EK monarch
@@dwhutto 120 mm rad just for ram? 🤔
@@christophermullins7163 They work just fine without applying watercooling to them. Personally I like how the chromes look, very minimalistic
@@dwhutto !! Thank you for the tip 🙏
you might be able to find the old gskill ram cooling setup
In the past , I always loved the Thermalright HR-07 memory coolers. They just look great .
Nice one...so when are you going to start selling Der8auer memory cooling kits?
Is there a US vender for the minus extreme thermal pads? Have a rather extreme project that those would be perfect for.
I got distracted halfway through the video : are those the coordinates of PB5-926 tattooed on your forearm ?
P4X-639
I use EK water blocks on all my RAM modules, vaper chiller so I run sub ambient down to dew point, makes a huge difference performance and stability ... as RAM frequency increase and CPU get faster and faster heat becomes a significant problem for RAM modules (even more so when overclocking).
Your videos are truly really interesting. Can't wait to buy your 12900k/12th gen direct die kit
Looks like the old Zalman heatsinks! I think it was CNPS-9700nt or something
Well going over 55C might not cause instability right now, but when DDR5 will mature and we will get modules based on better IC's (and dual rank, as mentioned in the video) it might limit overclocking. It was already the case with some DDR4 b-die kits. Even some DDR3 IC's were temperature sensitive. I remember my 2400c10 B-die (DDR3 dual rank) based dominators throwing errors over 52C even at XMP settings.
There wasn't any "B-Die" DDR3 IC's....
B-Die is extremely temperature sensitive when above 4000mhz CL17. Mine won't post at 4266mhz CL 17 flat unless the IC's are 35c or less.
@@nexxusty There was - but it didn't have anything to do with DDR4 B-die.
It was 4Gbit IC so 8GB modules already had to be dual rank. It was often used in 2133c9@1.6v and 2400c10@1.65v modules.
What if you put thermal paste along the length of the heatpipe?
At around 3:00 it sounds like he did
I respect any content creator who speaks against rgb puke stuff. I have 4 Xigmatek radiators purely for esthetics, to cover green pcb of oem Samsung B-die sticks. I thought that going from 1.5 volts to 1.1 will reduce the heat output, but at least those radiators aren't obsolete yet, lol
After so many years, you keep surprising with original content💪
"Officially ddr5 compatible"😂
0:40 RamOrb was far ahead of its time.
It's arts and crafts time with der8user! YAY! :D
Loved the DDR5 sticker slapped on the package xD
When can we expect the new minus pad extremes to be in stock?
This was pretty hilarious. Love your videos.
Why not add vertically extended heatsink design for the RAM sticks while remaining thin for not interfering the dual-channel quad RAM setup?
I measured old DDR 512Mb PC2100 ECC/REG in my MPX760 board to about 65-68C under prime95!
Could use those coolers!
Also I hate RGB, not only is it an added cost and in some cases a security risk (software used) but it adds heat and also removes functional cooler designs for esthetic once.
I long for the days when motherboards had heatpipes from the VRM to the chipset, to anything needing cooling connecting them and then proper fins from aluminum or copper.
I also miss how compuer looked "cool" just by being designed to work as well as they could, not having decal trim.
Like why do every dam Motherboard VRM today have the "fins" facing the I/O ports and then a plastic cover over it, how is any air gonna get in there to make it "effective", its like mounting your CPU cooler with the fins to the IHS, just dumb.
But apparently we have forgotten how to design cooling for Motherboards and memory and other things.
It is the product of the bean counters and design 'eye-wash' folks getting a hold of the Board's ear, or by monopolizing the Board. (As in the board of directors or decision makers 'board':-)
65-68c is well within most tolerances and prime95 is easily on the extreme side. I'm doubtful you'd see those temps real-world.
Love the throw back hardware, man keep this up. Love these videos of crap from yesteryear. Especially when you are trying different things.
Questions, could you make a set of heat spreaders for ram sticks. Im thinking of a light internal machining of a stock aluminum block. I bet you are thinking already. Seed planted.
Wish I'd bought those Ram Orb's now. I wonder how much they will go for?!
Subscribed! Love this channel dude 👍
i'm somewhat interested to see if direct contact with a heatpipe if it would make a drastic change to ddr5 memory.
Old dominators, hyperx, etc. all had huge heatsinks in DDR2/DDR3 days. The sticks looked much better now than the ones available these days.
I've got a Ripjawz kit, ddr4 4x8gb cl16 3600 cjr. Dropped about 10C pulling the IHS, I dont know if they used thermal adhesive, but if they did it was making poor contact on at least %60 of dimm area. The IHS was essentially trapping heat and holding it in.
How do the thermals of DDR5 sticks compare to DDR4 stick running at 1.55-1.60V?
but why u gotta run them at 1.55-1.60v
Micron does not like these sort of voltages. Will try that probably later with different ICs
cuz more powah is better
@@suqd674 i guess for experimental purposes... but 1.55 is dangerous
@@100eyez4 lol nope 1.6V for B-die is perfectly safe 24/7
5:08 Maybe we can get some RGB RAM which uses sapphire as a diffuser for the LEDs...sure it might cost 5x as much, but hey it's thermally conductive 😂
Did not expect the temps to go 6c lower with the fan enabled. Thats like a 13% reduction by the fan running not bad at al for max overclocking.
That's a Stargate address tattoo on your arm, I just noticed. What planet does it go to? I couldn't find it in the stargate address list? :D
it is sourced from the Episode Window of Opportunity and related to the Planet P4X-639. Just my favorite episode :D
Patriot Viper Steel 4400 - excellent value (DDR4) B-die, poor 'heat spreaders' and additional plastic insulation.
Fixed B-die temperature sensitivity with a fan.
"DDR5 will be more efficient because it runs at lower voltages"-DDR5 sellers
"But there are two parts to the wattage equations, how many amps do these run at"-Everyone else
Well I think it is not because of higher amps that cause the higher heat output. It is probably due to the PMIC integrated on DDR5 modules . With DDR5 DIMMs, power management moves from the motherboard to the DIMM itself. DDR5 DIMM have a 12V power management IC (PMIC) soldered on the RAM module itself .The PMIC distributes the 1.1 V according to JEDEC spec.
my Nephew is fascinated with building computers and overclocking, he led me to your channel and has been really inspired by some of your videos. (Breaking vintage benchmarks on Win-Xp specifically.) This is such a great hobby for teenagers. Thanks for that and happy overclocking 👽👽👽
thanks for the vid bro. i'm tired of spending 400$ on memory then replacing the rgb junk heatsink with real copper ones from my year2000 pentium 4 build lol
Can u make a video to compare ramdisk performance of ddr4 and ddr5
The LEDs may add another 2W of power consumption, but, that energy is mostly dissipated as light rather than as heat. The heatsink likely doesn't do anything because there's no airflow on them; it just simply takes longer for the DIMMs to heat up.
Love your cat at the forefront of the frame on the video.
I will not consider purchasing DDR5 memory until it can catch up with DDR4 in terms of price and latency.
At what point does DIMM temperature effect RAM OC stability? Is it mostly the memory controller that needs to be kept cool, as long as the DIMMS are within their 95°C temp spec?
Btw practical or not I just ordered two of those RamOrb kits off ebay along with a 5.25" cigarette lighter / ashtray. I'd like my next build to be early 2000s enthusiast themed, in my hideous blue Apevia X-Master htpc case
are we going back to OCZ REAPER days? the TT ORB not a bad idea either if these ddr5 do get really hot..
man, those 2000s PC aesthetics (especially like post 2004) are making me feel so good looking at them
Fantastic insights. Good to know.
I got memory errors when the ram temperature got close to 40°C when I tried to push the speed and timings. They would run mem tests fin when they were cool, but once they got warm, errors started showing up. This was with 2x 3200MT 16GB Gskill Trident Z sticks on a Ryzen 2700X.
How do you keep your ram so cool?
Mine run +40c idle, and +60c load.
3200mhz, 32 gigs, cl16
LOL that is awesome! Would Bartx heat sinks fit?
Well done Sir, like a boss!
Cool video! +Super like for the cat
Likely you'd see similar performance on the Corsair sticks if you changed the thermal pads, however they likely use adhesive thermal pads to simplify the heatspreaders.
Just remember that back in the DDR1/2 days memory would barely touch twenty degrees above ambient!
I had heatsinks on my DDR banks as well, they were just for show really as the temperature on them was barely 35 degrees... These days memory gets a little warmer, so 15 year old tech might be usable!
Most of these memory chips are rated up to like 115 degrees C or something ridiculous, the only HOT memory I ever saw was in my server when I choked the air supply.
my pc ram 45c if oc at max speed over 40c it is unstable crucial 3200
Could you repeat this test with CPU Tower cooler and box cooler? The CPU fan force airflow around memory stick, unlike AIO. It would be nice to test how much of a diffrence does it make.
When are the minus pad extreme coming out? I want! 😊
From what little testing I've done, I have fond that G.Skill's metal heat spreaders tend to cool DIMM's a good bit better than anything Corsair offers. (Including comparing G.Skill Trident RGB to Corsair Dominator RGB)
If it is in a well ventilated case the Temps will be better because of guided air flow
I had two copper ramsinks from old ddr2.
So I put them on 2 of my 4 ddr4 dimms.
I notice 2-3C lower temps on the ones with the heatsinks.
It's a shame nobody sells quality copper heatsinks anymore. Most everything is cheapo aluminum with clear thermal tape.
I was using a downdraft cooler back when I was overclocking DDR2, it just mounted to the top of you existing RAM sticks though
derBauer showing what all future Gaming PC DDR5 cooling setups will look like. LOL Some crazy Fan on some crazy ram.
best PC building channel on UA-cam. yes fake heat spreaders on gaming hardware are painful. almost enough to push a person to server hardware but i think will try to find a happy medium with workstation gear.
what are the squishiest pads easily available? Gelid?
I bought some Arctic but they’re like clay
I have to wonder what your memory temps would be if you had a blow down cpu cooler. Even a tower cooler would probably be better for SOME airflow over the sticks.
The new DDR5 spec puts the PMIC on the DIM which is why they generate so much heat.
It will be interesting to see in a few years when manufacturers start releasing modules with crazy voltages what kind of thermal solutions will be required.
I bought RGB RAM one time.
It was when I was purposely building "the ugliest PC possible" because me and my brother found one of those old Alienware cases with the window on the side and we wanted to fill it with mismatched (but still functional) components.
I used to have issues with my overclocked Samsung B die ram whenever it went above 50C. No issues at all since I watercooled them.
I always wanted get those DDR2 XMS2 PRO with the activity LEDs. Not just bling bling but some functionality too.
6:24 chapter name: “what did wwe learn?” Is this a documentary on the wwe now? Seems wild in the middle of a critique of design choices which might lead to temperature problems on ddr5.
What's the conductivity of these pads Roman?
Is this also true about thermals of memory on graphics cards? :)
1 Watt seems like a lot for the RGB on a RAM stick considering an LED desk lamp bulb is only like 4 Watts.
If that RamOrb would be fully matte black, it would actually look sick on a modern RIG tbh. I guess you can paint it with some matte black spray paint (that was specifically non-conductive and with great thermal conductivity, special for painting heatsinks, that yes it exists, so it would be completely possible)
That's a cool looking heatsink!
A little anecdote about modern graphics card coolers and ram. Last winter I was driven mad because my computer would get horribly unstable while gaming after I installed a new graphics card. I could not understand why, as I had ran the same overclock for years without issue. Also I couldn't detect any instability from CPU or memory stress tests alone. It turned out that that the hot air blowing from the new graphics card at the overclocked ram was just enough to push them over the edge. The solution I found after 2 MONTHS of fiddling turned out to be a slight memory undervolt, some manually tuned secondary timings and a little fan to blow more air at the ram. All that to regain a percent of lost memory performance.
What a neat quirky old product. I think a heatpipe and fan are overkill and a properly designed heatspreader is more than adequate for memory, but it's still cool you can mount these old units to modern DIMMS. If the heatpipe is round enough it's probably possible to rotate the pipe in the clamp slightly so that two nearby/adjacent modules can clear each other, or you could even alternate top/bottom fan orientation if you were trying to really pack a system with overclocked memory back in the day.
I remember using DDR1 memory based on Winbond UTT chips known for their high voltage tolerance and resulting high clock speeds; I mostly ran mine at 3.5-4V compared to the 2.5V DDR1 spec, and those sticks got pretty toasty despite the copper (!) heatspreaders they came with. Could easily manage 260-280Mhz at tight 2-2-2-5 timings which helped performance a lot on the then-current Athlon 64/X2 processors which benefited from low memory latency.
LGR style video. Great work.
A good source for cheap RAM heat spreaders are old fully buffered modules. Those get really hot.
I love that there are new minus pads coming out! Is there a release date for the extreme pads?
Just makes me think about how good down draft coolers like the NH-C14 was.
Not only was it actually pretty strong as a CPU cooler with barely any noise, but it also cooled a full bank of ram and all the power delivery components around the CPU/ram itself.
Honestly, I'm constantly thinking more an more about making a full switch back to normal air coolers and just ebay my hardline blocks, fittings, etc..
A bit like the old OCZ ReaperX DDR memory modules.
Had to bend the heatpipe a little to fit a aircooler beside the memory, looked cool but i do not think they did anything meaningful to the temps, that could not have been done more elegantly.
The DRAM heatspreader is mostly for mechanical protection of the DIMM during handling. The capacitor in cell can hold charge up to 85°C. That's your limit. Since the DRAM chips are not flip chip design and have no conductive thermal pad (via) on the top side of the epoxy encapsulation the only way to cool them is to cool the PCBA as they cool through the solder pads only. That's why fan over bare PCBA is the best (also the fugliest).
I just checked my Dominator P RGB DDR5 which is 5200Mhz, and it runs at a rock solid 35C even doing a memory benchmark it only went up 0.1C.
I enjoyed the video, thanks.
But do the sticks overclock better now?
Ram watercooling will be a thing again?