Are you making these MISTAKES when braking [Sim Racing]
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- Dive into the most common braking mistakes we see when working with Sim Racers featuring Driver61's Head Racing Coach Scott Mansell.
The Driver61 Sim Racing channel is here to help you learn driving techniques, win races and ultimately become a better sim racer.
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#SimRacing #Tips - Ігри
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I can say I am good at braking on sim games, but heck when I leading the race all of mistakes you mentioned happened to me, even in virtual world leading the race stressed me up haha
Yes it is stressful
Agreed, I also feel it’s because I try to drive for the person behind me so I don’t get five bombed or pushed out the way
Edit: dive
@@ryancoleman5148 this is such a common problem in all lobbies but especially lower ranked ones where people think driving as if we are in bumper cars is good driving, using people as brakes basically. It's a joke at times
Time trailing does help a lot. At least, that is what I have found!
Probably
Brilliant.
As a slow 62 year old racer this video has given me a lot of good advice and things to try so I hopefully improve :)
Its never to late to learn new things :-)
I love that sim racing brings people of all ages together, 17 yr old here
YOUR STILL A YOUNG ONE
Haha, 64 here. Anyone remember Revs for the Commodore 64 ? I bought a special analogue joystick to play that game and I still have it somewhere. Started Kart racing in the late 70's in 100 National at Rye House in a Zip/Parrilla setup.
@@luciusesox1luckysox570 Wow, that’s a long time ago. :) I missed on REVS (age) but played Stunt Car Racer and even more of F1 Grand Prix. Both of which are from the same guy as revs.
My biggest mistake was being born in Latin America where it's impossible to afford a decent pedal set.
know that feeling bro
yea me too ;-;
Same here, from a Balkan country
Logitech has a kinda load cell conversion kit for there brakes supposed to improve them a lot, thrust master might have better pedals I dunno, and you can use thrustmaster pedals *( these are some ok thrustmasters **www.amazon.com/dp/B00KX75W9O/ref=olp_aod_early_redir?_encoding=UTF8&aod=1** you can probably get them cheaper elsewhere or if you have a friend that live somewhere where fanatec is sold you could go through them to get some pedals might be a bit of a pain but it’s an idea there’s streamers that I’m sure if you asked them sent them the money for the product and shipping to you they would do it for you or go on the discord server and ask the community is a lot nicer than you think there are ppl willing to help )* and a Logitech wheelbase together if I’m not mistaken I know ppl using fanatec brakes with non fanatec wheel bases
me too
Your videos are gold. So much info, succinctly packaged. If only you were around when I was sim racing, almost 15 years ago...
15 years ago, we’re u playing ridge racer
@@danielprouse342 nope, young summer child. There were already titles like nascar2003, grand prix legends, rFactor and netKar around.
Lol my bad. Didn’t know sim racing has been around that long
Never too old to sim race!
You can never be too old to sim race unless you have some sort of disability that disallows the use of your arms/hands or legs. I have an online friend who is 67 yrs old and actually pretty damned good at racing. Come back please.
I always teach to "roll on, jam off, jam on roll off." Roll on the throttle to keep constant smooth acceleration. Lift off and jam hard on the brakes. Roll off the brakes smoothly keeping the attitude of the car stable and the grip increases in the steering. I watch a lot of your vids and use your techniques. Always recommend your vids for more in depth lessons. Thanks for making this free to everyone! It really helps improve the sim racing field. Lord knows we need it.
Your 3rd and 4th points are actually the reason why you should rely on the ABS in GT3 cars. The systems are so well tuned nowadays, that during ABS action, you are closer to the ideal than you could be by guessing the limit correctly. Your point about ABS is still valid for GT4 cars though, you have to be on the edge of ABS in that case.
You might want to rely on it in real cars. But not in a sim like iRacing. It will definitely make you slower.
@@Kr4zy Maybe in iRacing, but in ACC not using TC/ABS will defininitely make you a lot slower
GT3 cars are made to be driven by relying on ABS
@@elopobaconforpigsqc1061 i think the pointhe was making was about being over reliant in the video it was turned all the way up to a wet map on a dry track
Not exactly. Most GT3 pros also try to avoid the ABS as much as possible. It is the gentlemen drivers who rely more on the ABS.
ABS was first developed for aircraft. Its known as anti-skid. Great channel btw.
And just 3 years after the war :). It's amazing how much of car and engine tech can be traced back all the way to WW2 era aviation.
Never seen braking explained as well as this. Great job! (I learned some good tips!)
gran turismo... as much as "hardcore sim racers" hate it, the instruction manuals included a lot of stuff about racing.... also how i learned about drifting before it got really big over here(US)
I've heard of trail breaking before, but didn't really understand it at the time. Having you explaining the importance of going hard on the brakes and tapering them off w/ the charts, then name dropping was a great epiphany. Thanks for this video
Amazing video as always Scott! You’re the best!! 🏆👍🏻👍🏻
This is the perfect series i need right now
Nice one Scott, very important to know especially for people just getting into simracing and struggling to get into a good rhythm. Thank you :)
Very useful tips -- not only on braking technique, but on how to get more out of a practice session. I'm a casual racer, driving mostly 1967 F2s in GPL, but the desire to improve is universal.
Scott, you are absolutely brilliant and unique. I will do your driver training course at some point!!
Hey Scott thanks for another top video, I like how you really defined the difference between the on and off curves.
Mate, this is really good material! Thank you very much!
These videos are great. My Fanatec CSL DD is on the way and I could not be more ready for it 👌
I realised how slow I have been getting onto the brakes. Thanks for the insight!!
Great video. Helped a lot
Yes! Love these technique videos.
Following this advice, my car feels more planted and stable. I'm spinning out less in the corners and improving my times. Thank you.
Tried some of the new breaking technique and dropped my times by over two seconds of my best time
How are your videos not more widely seen?
Sir, your sharing of such great information is amazing.
Your presentation style across all your videos is excellent, ive watched so many.
Thank you very much for all your efforts.
I think his videos cater to a specific part of the sim racing community. It is not about entertainment, but about technical details and improvement. I'm glad that there are people like Scott with such a wealth of experience and knowledge to teach sim racers how it is done. It is a wonderful thing to have. In this light i do also wish for more exposure, but at the same time you have to take the target audience into account.
Amazing video! Thank you very much for the very detailed and informative video on braking. I know I am making all of these mistakes. I'll make sure to practice all of these tips from now on. Thanks again!
My biggest braking mistake was missing it and flooring the throttle instead while trying to avoid a car that pulled out in front of me.
Fantastic video as always #Driver61 ! I hope you had a good rest up after that incredible 24hr drive. Keep up the great work! :D
This was really really useful. Thank you!!
Lovely vid! Im quite experienced and still learned something, awesome!
Such a good video, thank you for this
Thanks, extremely comprehensive explanation! I'll try that to get faster.
And congratulations for your channel, I really enjoy all your videos :)
amazing and very informative! thank you very much!!!
The theory you explain is perfect and you make it sound so easy. When you factor in every different corner and the approaches required is where it gets tricky and that's just on one circuit! I've been sim racing for many years now and I still haven't mastered braking. The way you explain it in this video gave me a kind of lightbulb moment though and I realise now in my pursuit to be last of the late brakers I am probably losing the majority of time on corner entry. I'm going to be mindful of this in my next session. Many thanks, quality content.
I made some dramatic improvements after just one session following your advice on getting on the brakes earlier, harder and easing off towards the apex. I'm much smother now. I've heard this theory before but it never quite stuck with me. After your explanation it went in and stayed in. You have a gift for this and I want to thank you for helping me to be faster and I'm noticing my tyres are lasting slightly better too. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I've always enjoyed pushing the limits of the car, it's a lot of fun that way but you can't argue with quicker lap times. Thank you.
Thank you so much for the valuable information!
Thank very much Scott for this series of videos are very,very useful, i got better in other categories inside Simracing/Racing Games thanks to racing in F1 and watching a lot of videos like this...
This video is gold thx for the useful infos
Great tips, thanks!
You really do help me get a better pace and dude. Thx for these great videos.
Well explained, thankyou for the video.
I love this technical videos that show how to improve your racing tehnique.
Your videos helped me improve so much.
I've been working on the balance of releasing the brakes smoothly but not too long or too short. I often find myself over thinking and trailing my brakes for too long when I should be accelerating. I feel like the brake roll off should actually be done relatively quick. Smoothly but still quick. Of course it's subjective to different driving styles, cars and corners.
Good content and good baseline to start. I agree 100% that braking is number one thing what you have to learn if you want to be fast. Also braking style depends what kind corner you are approaching and what is the car you are driving. Also setup on the car make huge difference. Sometimes you want just tap on the brake sometimes hard as you can and use trail braking and sometimes you use throttle and brake same time middle of the corner. Lot of laps and hard practice and also if you can get driving coach how know how to read telemetry and know how to setup a car.
amazing really makes difference really thanks
Great advice. Hard to master these.
I've been understood this twenty-five years ago. Nice for you to tell everyone else.
There's some really great tips in here! definitely guilty of a few of these mistakes 😬
The more of these videos I watch the more time I find on track these are awesome guides to getting faster
Your content is gold
Very nice vid. After mastering that you then realize that every corner also have different slope. You lock up quicker when branking downhill, also there is different amount of road grip,... For me the hardest part of simracing.
That brake pressure graph is super helpful.
What is the best method for gearing down while braking and how important is it for achieving ideal lap times?
Sequential dual clutch or with the traditional standard using clutch?
"You get $1 in traction, where you spend that dollar dictates how well you go in and come out of a corner.. Exceed that dollar and you won't at all... (Keith Code analogy)
You and you videos are great.
Hav to agree here, this mades great impact on my vision on gow to take apax and accelerate. Thx, thumps ub
Best video on braking so far
You might be breaking too late! Or too early! Or not hard enough! ...or you might be breaking too hard! (I kid I kid) 😁
It's good than you can explain it to others at the science 🔭 point. That's really great 👍
Great video
I do love to race without abs on and i think i see on the track the advantage it gives if you develop the required sensibility (and give a proper setting to the controller), but when i'm not in for 100% perfection i tend to have oversteer in the moment i release the brakes.
I think you got me on 5:47. Once the trajectory to the apex is right, i tend to abandon braking too fast in the very moment i touch the apex and upset the balance of the car.
It's funny but it's not optimal. I'll pay more attention to it.
I get it right when i'm in "super serious mode" but have never realized it rationally. Thank you!
My biggest sin for a while was and still is for some extent, braking at the same place on hot track as on cold track. This is very sensitive in iRacing. But I am getting better and better, starting to similar laps on hot track as on col track. Usually I am super fast on cold track, like 0,2s-0,4s behind 6-9k+ irating guys, while on hot track I could be even 1s behind.
Thank you so much, i will be using these tricks on my old ps2 games
One of the best things I've ever done for my iracing career. Was I have up on SR n IR for awhile. In Rookie. I was just done fixating on it. I didn't lay back in the rear and play it safe. I didn't drive like a fool either. I drove as good and as clean as I could. But once I had heat in my tires I raced the best I could. This took me almost 2mos. To hit D class but I'm 2 MPR away from B class now on my 3rd month. Cause I learned how to race instead of driving slow in back.
Just keep doing favourite things! 😎
Very well explained and informative video.
However ABS was originally developed for trains (early 1900s) and then moved to aircraft long before they were ever fitted to road cars. The Concorde was also the first to use 'electronically controlled' anti-skid.
What I’ve noticed looking at graphs when trying to understanding trail braking is. The graph for trail braking will actually mirror and reversed how the throttle graph coming out of the corner looks like.
As where coming off the throttle a 100%-0 your almost going 0-100% on the brakes, then smoothly rolling off the brakes and then at the right part of the apex smoothly rolling into the power.
Many including myself fell victim to the 100%, 100% at first you think 100% full brake pressure when it’s 100% braking needed for a given corner. Some corners like long straight high speed corners may only need a light brush where some need full straight line braking potential and trailed off far deeper like a long straight into a hair pin.
Race line vs time trial line and differences would be a fun video.
It’s one way I think people also get confused.
Hi Scott. Great advice as always, Ive signed up for your next wave of lessons so I'm looking forward to getting the email to start getting some expert tuition from you and your crew 👍
How was it?
Trail breaking is a technique used to break later into corners in an attempt to shave off the last few 10th's on a circuits lap times. Instead of getting all your breaking out of the way prior to the corner as used to be taught, the driver now breaks later and trails off the break as he begins turning in, and, having come off the breaks by the apex gets back on the gas.
I think i call u sensei 😜😝🤓nice info m8. Grts from belgium
So I'll have to wait for the other videos to get fast...... seriously though amazing tips I probably do all of those mistakes :P
Cannot wait for the detailed videos of each point!
Some people on ACC just need to learn how to brake for T1. Period.
I picked up from somewhere that stomping on the brake hard is not ideal because it upsets the balance of the car. Instead, slightly brake to settle the car then stomp down hard. So now, I am confused between that and the advice in this video about braking as quick and as hard as possible before the beginning of the turn
I run cars where there is no ABS (NASCAR) with me its One Foot on the Brake and One on the Gas!
So one has to learn 'Trail Braking" and using Brake Bias as well!
Coordination between feet helps as well!
Yep, brake as late as possible.
The point you start to ease off the brake when you turn in can be different. It will vary between simracing videogame.
In understeer type physic, you can keep your brake floored to the floor half way after the turn in. I usually recommend to start easing off after you feel instability with try & error.
#great chanel man!!! respecta!!! 👍😜
I'm not playing Sim Racer, still helpful for Forza Horizon 5 :D thanks!
some crazy cockpit views
Thanks
Great video 😉👍
Great video, im quite new to sim racing (couple of years) and one thing that always gets me is how integral the gear selection is, or at least seems to be for particular corners and rotation. For months i honestly never understood it, but now I tend to focus not only on the braking but the gears coming in to and out of the corner. I mean this is probably a really fundamental thing that i have overlooked for months and months and only now im picking up pace because of it
Yeah, gears actually can make your braking so much faster
Engine braking assists braking and rotation massively. I'm always heel and toeing down the gears as I brake down for corners. (Unless I'm left foot braking in a paddle shift car)
Great videos. Comment for algorithm.
I'm an intermediate motorcycle track day rider and these are exactly the things I'm struggling with most at the race track in real life
Ultimately it is for fun but I'm getting an entry level sim setup to hopefully get more off season braking practice without the risk of hurting myself
As I push myself to test my limits I end up in the braking too hard too late camp which when I get it right it is fantastic but the failures result in riding off the track (if I feel the front end pushing at too high of a speed I just go off straight and slow down in the grass/sand which has thus far prevented low side crashing but obviously could result in its own crashes if there is nearby traffic or bumps or slick grass, etc.)
Not sure how foot braking for a simulated car will translate to hand moto brakes but my go kart driving skills have improved immensely from my progress on the motorbike so I'm sure there will be some cross training action in my brain
Any input on if the load cell brakes are worth it for the sake of real life cross training? Is the difference that impactful on skillbuilding? (picking up a Logitech G29 today for PS5 Gran Turismo 7 with PSVR)
Relying on abs is key.
Or not relying on it.
I fitted a simple rubber mod to my g29 brake pedal so when i brake besides the spring resistance the main resistance starts at around 1/3rd brake force,
So to go full brake i have to press quite hard, this means most of the time i brake a 3/4 force just before the abs kicks in. Braking is much smoother, less tyre wear, easier to trail brake.
Gt3 drivers say use the abs. They do. Tc too.
I always wondered why my brake pedal made my car do the dark souls roll. Thank you
Thanks for the great content everytime! I'm a SIM racer and I wonder how I should be using the ABS in GT3 cars? I do not have a pedal set that would give me any feedback when the ABS kicks in. So do you recommend monitoring on the dash when the ABS is activating and trying to brake under its threshold? Thanks in advance!
I understand when the abs kicks in by listening closely. Also, you could feel it through the steering, because, if in a specific corner you always braked, and the car always followed your inputs, when the car starts to struggle, you know something isn't right. I always drive like the car is going to oversteer/understeer on the turn in, on the apex or on the exit, so i'm prepared to correct it if it slides. It honestly saved my ass quite a few times
Would you do a video analysis of how to race karts? How does braking differ in rear only breaks? How does the balance get used in traction if only the rear brakes, leaving the front's traction solely for turning? Can the front handle a harder turn? Is a wider circular turn better in a Rotax kart? How does acceleration differ because the rear differential is locked? Does sliding out of the corner with acceleration wear tires too fast?
I notice in sim racing iRacing F3 at the Nurburgring GP layout with the lower downforce setup I'd lose grip by the end of the race, though faster drivers seemed to have grip still. Would accelerating hard out of a corner in a kart to help it turn be a worthwhile tradeoff or like my F3 experience be good in the short term only?
Do theae principles apply to Rally driving as well?
I don't use assists at all, so that's s good starting point.
But you don't know what I'd give to break well at the S after eau rouge for once.
These videos have been really helpful, especially when it comes to explaining things like trail braking.
One question I have is on brake pedal pressure; I'm currently SIM racing a GT4 class car with no ABS and I've found I have to drop the pedal pressure down from 100%. It allows me to brake smoothly and fully and use things trail braking but should I be trying to work my way back up towards 100%? I'm generally using high 80% to low 90% depending on the track.
Thanks.
100% brakes will lock up the wheels on almost all cars. The main exception I know of is on the high downforce cars (F1, formula renault 3.5, those sorts of cars). Because you have so much downforce pressing the wheels into the road at the top end speed (more traction), you can brake 100% without locking up. You have to back off from 100% pretty quickly tho because you lose that extra downforce as you slow down
Only what left me always puzzled in racing especially with "alien" tier driver...
Their braking is much later than mine yet able to take deeper tighter cornering line than me...(while im at the very edge of tyre grip and trail braking)
Would you recommend using a non linear brake profile on more expensive pedal sets? ie one where initial brake input puts on a greater brake pressure .
I didn't even need to watch the video to answer "Yes" Now, off to watch the video
Thank you I was releasing the brake way too fast.
hi @driver61, i'd be interested to know if these tips are the same for karting games? (kartkraft)
Is there a way to workout the best approach to a corner? Given that we only see one dimension therefore no depth perception as such, personally I find it difficult to see the shape of a corner upon approach. Cheers
Great videos too by the way
I've always had an issue with braking. My braking trace is generally aggressive at first with a bleeding off of pressure but I seem to always slow the car down slightly too much and I lose normally about a tenth in each corner. If I try to transition to the throttle earlier I just can't get through the corner. This comparing against VRS telemetry.
I'm learning to left foot brake and I find myself over-braking 🤦♂️ I'll fine tune my muscle memory in time 💪
I smash on the brake while still on the throttle then release throttle. Super smooth, works for me atleast.
Can you explain how to trail brake better when we have to heel toe downshift it makes managing the balance of the vehicle considerably more difficult