Impossible, or just a lot of work? Bending both ways on a single rail
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Full walk through of the process of laying out and bending full length 2 x 4 x .120 frame rails that get both hard way and easy way bends on the same tube.
I always wondered just exactly how one of these machines was set up, and I'll freely admit that I was under the impression that the machine did almost all the setup, in a CNC or robotic / automated type fashion.
I have a new respect for just how much goes into a pair of these frame rails.. Thanks!
Thanks for watching
Ditto !😉
I would guess that newer cnc bending machines have self calibration capability. I bet they cost a small fortune too.
@@Nigel2Zoom The machine He's using in His vids costs a fortune..
I once got a quote for a mandrel bender to do strictly exhaust tubing, and was quoted $180,000 ( with some tooling) in the late 90’s.. I don't even want to ask what His costs in 2023 money.
Wow very impressive. You explain everything very well I really appreciate that.
Lol... I don't know about everyone else, but being a Machinist, Welder, Fitter, Fabricator, Millwright, and owning multiple businesses... this is my kind of porn my friend... lol, you're definitely a " hitter "!
KUDO'S to your work ethics, and perfectly transparent path during this segment, coupled with exact conveyance verbally... well done sir! In my 63 years on this earth... gentlemen such as yourself, have been a pleasure to have spent my time with... Thank you, Seth
Outstanding lesson! I enjoy your thoughtful style and awesome results. Appreciate u!
I appreciate that!
Recently ran across your page. You sir are a true craftsman. Youve created some awesome content.
Thanks for watching
This is what I was asking for! Awesome 🎉🎉
Thanks for watching
As always a great showing of your work and a learning experience for me. I watched your work for years.
Thanks John
Thanks for the long term support
Have you sent these kind of rails to New Zealand? What's the shipping worth? Because I like radius rather than mitre joins, and got RHS laser cut so I could have a radius instead of a mitre
i sent a set of rails to NZ once before and it was around $1200 in freight
I swear you could probably do this in you're sleep. Amazing how you can do all this while talking to the camera, looking totally at ease and making both frame rails .......in under 50 minutes. 🤣
Beautiful craftsmanship. Ya gained a sub! 👍
Thanks for subscribing
Master right here!
At the beginning, I was imagining “hard way / easy way”, as a difference in technique, not the tube orientation.
Ain’t nuthin’ “easy”, about any of this.
Short of having another bender setup for the alternate orientation, this is a labor intensive and experience / skill dependent job.
You’ve given me a increased appreciation for this work, as, my own experience has been with round tubing.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching. I dont want another bender currently, even though it would make life much easier. At 100k tooled out the door and taking up a 20x10 foot print as well as swing clearance is just a lot of extra money and space
@@cornfieldcustoms I was thinking that was a very expensive piece of equipment, just the large chunks of machined steel ain't cheap.
Going to take a while just to pay for it's self so I guess you need to be working it a lot?
How does the mandrel 'work'? I imagine it's some sort of sections to allow it to flex even though it looks solid with only 3 moveable support pieces in video?
Have you done a vid on the parts and pieces?
aye. this.
I have wondered for decades how this was done. My curiosity is now assuaged. If I only had the years left to design and build a custom vehicle and enjoy.
Thanks for checking out the channel and videos
Amazing. When initially marking the bends on the tubing, does the software compensate for stretching /shrinking lengthwise?
Man... It's a ton of work to get all the bends right. I totally understand about the setup for any given operation. I go through it to machine parts... The setup takes an hour or more and the machining often takes just a few minutes... Everyone thinks the setup time doesn't cost anything! Thanks for showing all the detail. It's interesting to see.
Thanks for watching
Same thing for diagnostics. I was a pro mechanic from about 1980 to 2002. I basically got in when we were still rebuilding every accessory (starters, generators, alternators, carburetors, ect.) through the transition to where we simply replaced almost all of that and more as it became less-and-less cost effective to rebuild components. The same is true to the transition from points ignition through early electronic ignition, through OBD and the very leading edge of OBDII, and all of that.
The bottom line is shop owners and managers did not want to pay for diagnosis times, and neither did customers. They were used to old Earl down at the gas station being able to listen to a car, or do a short test drive, tell them exactly what was wrong, throw a few parts at the problem, and have the owner of the vehicle drive away happy.
They were also used to making enough money rebuilding an alternator, for instance, that it covered the diagnosis. In fact, that was a big selling point. Even though the book times usually had the diagnostic time broken out separately (though not always) from the repair time, shops almost always said "hey, the diagnostic time is x, and the R&R time is x; the rebuild time is x, but we'll only charge you the R&R and the rebuild time." Hard to make a good living when your boss is giving away part of your labor.
Incredible fabrication from a one man operation! Great videos and lessons! Thanks for sharing... 😁👍🔥
Thank you
As I have 45 years experience bending tube and pipe did you extra waste on the ends to allow for rear clamping as it looks like it's fairly short.so much easier with a mandrill tube bender thanx do everything by hand different methods of going about bending after bending for along time you look at a bend and just know how to do it bending is a art form I like your style
There is always set up time involved. Wood working, Metal lathe, Bridgeport milling machine. Be nice if you had room for 2 machines, one for each way. Save a lot of set up time . Probably not practical unless you're running production. 😊
Really cool to see what it takes for the master to make perfect tubes. I'm exhausted just sitting here watching you move all that heavy iron around. I can only imagine how many tubes I would bend the wrong way 😂😂
It happens there is definitely a learning curve
Mandrel bends have always been a mystery to me about haw they are formed . Really awesome video , so much more work than I thought involved . Thank you sir for walking us through the entire process . Great , Great video .
Glad you enjoyed it
Been wanting this breakdown for awhile. Fascinating stuff
I find it amusing that you read to three decimal points but are using a nikko that looks to have line width of 3, 4mm ( 1/8, 5/32).
Also your measurements that you've shown and marked out have the allowances for the die radius's built into itself to.
Anyway very interesting.
I do that because of consistency. I draw to 3 decimals in CAD, machine to 3 decimals, lay out to 3 decimals. I just do it all the same so it so everything is same on paper. It makes it more efficient for me
@@cornfieldcustoms Its is just good to watch you male these. Out here we only have one brand of tooling sold here which everyone sells. And its Chinese crap stuff. Yes One shop sells some Baileigh tools here but with the exchange rate and shipping its so expensive. That's why I make all my own tools. Bead rollers, Plannishing hammers, power hammers English wheels (I did buy Proshaper's plans for that) and a few others.
But love watching you make things, the way you do things and I learn a lot watching, thanks again.
Thanks for watching
Breaking down that set up reminds me of my apprenticeship as it would be me who had to take a job out of the vice and do a rush job then set and clock the previous job back up lol
Nice demo yet again.
I've been around metal fab most off my 81 years ,and you furthered my education considerably, Thank you. (I usually use Imperial)
This was an awesome video.
Very informative and helpful to understand what it really takes to do a professional job.
Thank you for this most informative and interesting walk-through. You are definitely the master of this machine, clued into its various peculiarities. Cheers from Michael. Australia.
If you had even a small electric forklift it would make you life soooo much easier not having to roll that gantry around all the time ….
i have a forklift but moving it around in the shop is a pain, hence why i use the gantry
@@cornfieldcustomsI guess what really suck is that you have to change tooling TWICE during this job .....
@@ZILAwelds yep. Moving the gantry 10 ft is no big deal compared to navigating the forklift around the shop and cars that are in the way
@@cornfieldcustoms you almost would have to build multiple sets of frame rails all at the same time ... so you dont have to change set up that often ... BUT then you need to be fully focused, phone turned off, doors locked .. and just focus on bending them. all the right way and dont mess up any dimendions ..... but then I sent know how many calls you have for frame rails ...
@@ZILAwelds thanks for the feedback, but i have things under control
Very nice frame rails. I just found your channel and love it! Do you sell any of the parts you make?
I do make parts for sale
Whoever did the math on the layout program is the “heavy lifter” on the accuracy. Try rounding numbers to 1/100’s and you will find out why things won’t work accurately.
🙄
I’ve always wondered how the machine bends those rails
Morrison’s frame rails are done this Way
Learn something every day. Great video.
Thanks for watching
Very good showing ever step, T.Y. for a very informative video my friend, a brand new watcher!!! I will be back, your pal!!!
Thanks for watching
Thank You!!!!!!
Very informative and indept ...reckon these type of videos are great... good time frame not too long or short either...
Appreciated
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching
I’m looking forward to getting started on my old mustang and now I know who to have bend my frame rails
Just let me know
Impressive for sure however your comments about importance and preference of using 1/1000 of an inch then immediately proceed to layout with a tape measure, a speed square, a 1/8" sharpie, and an 1/8" shim by eye makes those comments seem absurd.
thanks for watching
Good morning, John. I'm a relatively new subscriber to your channel. I forget where I came from, though I think it was Karl Fisher's channel. I've been following him almost since the beginning.
Have you done a shop tour? I've seen a couple or three, including some guy in Canada - really his father, who has an 80-pound brain for the tools he uses and the way he laid his shop out. For instance, he was where I learned about running 20 and 30 amp outlets to each work station on separate circuits instead of all on one circuit. That may be old hat for some people, but to me, as a former pro mechanic, it blew my mind a little.
I also follow the usual suspects - Fab Rats, Matt's Offroad, Robby Layton, Cutting Edge Engineering, and a bunch of others.
Here's why I'm bringing all this up: I'm keenly interested in how people lay their shops out, how useful they've found said layout, and what they would change about it.
Awesome channel. I really enjoyed this episode. I'd never seen anyone mandrel bend frame rails that way. So much cleaner and sanitary looking than a bunch of cuts and welds. Don't get me wrong; it takes talent that I don't have to do the cut and weld jobs, but this is so much neater.
Looks like four inch rails. Are your tools capable of taller rails? I'm planning on replacing my F-150 frame after a wreck.
These are 2x4, thats the only size i offer currently
I watched a previous video where you change the tooling! really is an invaluable tool but I love how you are so adept at using it! Cannot find a company like yours in the UK. Wish I could.
WOW! I cant imagine how many machines, mandrels and tubing have been compromised because someone didn't set things up properly.
Geez how do you even get into this, where do you learn before UA-cam day's, and how do you afford the equipment, wow!
I Just save up to buy the equipment, but it and learn to use it when it shows up.
Great job. You earned my subscription. Take care.
The set-up reminds me of setting up drop forge dies, not as many parts but it still could take a day to set-up. drop forge dies are shimmed from left to right and front to back. So once you have what looks like it should work, you run a couple of samples and readjust from there. the shimming comes down to 5 thousands. And some of these dies we worked weighed as much as 1000 pounds a set or more.
Quite absurd if you ask me, working with decimals but still holding on to feet and inches… Why not dump that medieval nonsens and use the metric systems?
Because i can, and its what I have always used and will continue to use. Pretty absurd someone who doesnt do what I do to recommend I completely change they way I do things.
What does the mandrel do?
Check out my channel and other videos. I have a video covering the mandrel
How long would it take for a second machine to pay for itself, not having to change dies. Time is money right?
At $100k for another machine, it would be 300 tooling changes to break even. Plus the huge footprint it would eat up just sitting around For when its needed. I would say currently my bending is 85% hardway only.
Great video. Very cool. Certianly explains the reasoning behind the time and fee for the die changes.
Thanks for watching. Its a lot of extra work to change them out in the middle of a set of rails
Time is money. I wonder how much it would cost to get a second machine that can be set up and not changed? Then you could just move the rails as needed.
The machine is 100k, not worth the cost plus space it takes up when i dont swap the tooling all that often. When changing tooling on the same rail as in this video i charge for the tooling change
Thanks for your great videos! very nicely done!
Thanks for watching!
Wow you do it all, how did you learn and get so many tools, and such a young guy!
I just figure it all out as i go, and constantly re invest into the shop in equipment to grow
Mad respect for you and the process you have built to make these frame rails with precision and care for your customers. The Engineer in me is dieing to automate and improve the efficiency of your change-overs tho... haha I know those machines are not cheap, but if you grow in buisness getting a second machine for the other way would be the first step to improve your efficiency. For now an add on system to hold and swap the dies out would be a great help, with the addition of some battery powered impact guns to run the screws down (final tightening by hand of course). Good video of the process. I sub'd for more of this! God Bless.
I was thinking the same thing about the 2nd machine, but that only applies for 2x4 tubing so if you went to another size tube, you would still need to change out the dies. A permanent gantry system for that bay rather than the rolling A frame gantry would be nice.
This is the first time I watched your channel, wow your such a great teacher & you make the effort to make it both informative & entertaining.
Me well I have bent SS exhausts using a pipe bender all my change of direction I drew on the floor with chalk. The tube I welded a plate on 1 end filled it with sand which I compressed using a pneumatics chisel & a plug leaving about 1/8 th of a inch gap & plated the other end thus tricking the tube into things lt was a solid piece of bar.
I bet you have the right piece of kit to do this, me well I did mine it my shed .
Kiwi Rod
Impressive excellent video Great work !
Thank you very much!
Very cool 😎 just need some more income and buy a second machine set up with EW dies
Its also the space the machine takes up. Bending rails is not my main gig so i will stick with one bender
That is nice work, a lot of it having to reset up the machine 2 times, but it looks like it was well worth it.
Yea its a lot of work but not much of an option if you want it done both ways on the same rail
Looks good. I have a bronco project coming up. What is your lead time currently on frames?
as long as i am in town less than 7 day turn around
@cornfieldcustoms Awesome. What is the best way to get you the dimensions. Do you want the CAD file or do you want blueprints? Bends are both ways as we are converting the bronco over to independent suspension front and rear.
@@hpdiesel4538 shoot me an email Cornfieldcustomsltd@gmail.com
Thank you. Much more involved than I imagined.
Thanks, most people just dont know what it takes. Thats why i wanted to do a solid video on the process
I run a Huth Exhaust pipe bender, soooo much easier to swap out dies.
Lol, thats bending exhaust tube. My rotary draw bender for cage work is also much easier and faster. Your comparing two different animals
Total pro ! Amazing machine, operator and a well made video. Instructions are one thing, years of experience is another. You my friend, would make an awesome instructor !
Holy cow! This is an amazing process. The part I’m a little confused about is how the mandrel works. I understand why it’s needed but how it works is unclear. Thanks, Mike, for another awesome video!
A whole new appreciation. Craftsman at it finest... Thank you
Thanks for watching
clearly, you just need 2 mandrel benders :-D
I dont have the extra space required or another 100k for another bender set up
just a lot of work
Wow that was impressive love your work bro
Thanks
Fascinating! I'm just now seeing these, looks like a ton of work. Pretty awesome machine!
Just found ya
Looking at all of your vids now
Thanks for checking them out
That takes a lot of concentration to get it right first time, every time. I know from experience putting multiple bends in a length of copper pipe, how easy it is to mess up. Huge respect.
Thanks as always for the great content 👍
That's a ton of work to bend up a pair of rails, but less work than welding up mitre cut pieces. 😎
Holy crap, that's a lot of work ! I can see why side rails cost as much as they do. I have to ask - have you ever bent one the wron direction ? I can just see me screwing something up doing this. Great workmanship.
I have never bent a rail the wrong way but have come close, that's why I double check angle and orientation at each bend before preforming bend. I honestly think $1100a pair ( starting price) is cheap when you take into account the cost of the machine and tooling, the material cost, and labor involved.
I'd say that's an amazing price considering the cost of the bender, shop time & matrial. I was thinking way more than that.
it's the skills that pay the bills - hats off mike , thank you for sharing your knowledge
I appreciate that, thanks for watching !
This is some cosmic stuff.
Kinda equivalent to Frank Zappa citing Steve Vai for playing "impossible guitar parts".
I'm a fairly advanced metal fabricator and this blows my mind. Amazing.
I just subscribed. WOW!
Thanks i appreciate the view and subscription. If your into metal fabrication make sure to check out some of my other videos, especially the metal shaping ones
Have only seen round tube mandrel bending......a lot more work in bending square and rectangular tubing....nice video
Had no clue the die changes were that labor intensive.. Almost worth buying a second bender so you dont have to change dies!
At $60,000 dollars a Machine I think he will continue doing it the HARD way.
@@bobbyfabiano not only the machine cost but the space they take up. Also that number is just for the machine, not including the tooling or the mandrel bed
Thanks for sharing! Such a cool process to see. I've seen some tubing with the weld seam off center or all over the place really. Does the mandrel have a relief for the weld bead or is it special tubing?
Its a special shave seam tube made for mandrel bending
Great Work and Very Informative. Cheers from George in Adelaide.
Cool video. For something that easily taken for granted as being simple, there's a lot that goes into it. Thanks for the education.
Ceartinly beats Fabricating cutting out flat sheet welding warping twisting grinding , heaps quicker even with the set up time you cant even can't even get close to the finish quality that you can acheive with your machine, I have spent two to three long days only doing one side the old way, Its a lot quicker with CNC plasma cutting profiles now days but the welding setting up and finishing still take much longer.
bending both halves not havs!
Lol get a life
Now i understand mandrel bending, i worked for many years fabricating with mandrel bent stock, so now i know.
Wow this stuff is awesome. What's it cost for a set of rails like this compared to all hard way bends?
There is a $500 die change fee for easy way and hardway on the same rail
@@cornfieldcustoms what's a set of frame rails like that cost roughly? If that's private information it's very understandable. Just curious that's all
@@blindabinda1234 full length rails start at $1100 a pair
I'm curious about the mandrel, does it bend with the tube? How does it work is it a stack of brass or steel. I guess the question is how does it travel through the tube. I used a pipe mandrel once a long time ago and it was a ball like thing that was just pulled with a cable. From what I could see in the video your mandrel is a long piece that looks solid. How does that work? Thanks for the video it was great keep them coming.
I noticed this UA-cam video and I've been watching it play 16 years I set up and ran and Ethan and Lennon CNC pipe bender I'm a dumbass I didn't program it but I could set it up and run it but everyone who worked on the machine said we did the most tightest tolerances in the world these are coriolis meters they measure fluid the tolerances I've been to a plus or minus 3/10 of a degree and one of the jobs was one tenth of a degree everyone use are meters to check theirs and the company just threw that whole product line in the trash and I lost my job and the funny part is these meet is the government makes anyone who makes fluids use these meters and now they're not as accurate then now that we don't make them no more but it's cool seeing somebody still using a bender keep up the good work
Great video! Very interesting. I watched it a 2x speed as the time laps were a little long. But you got a sub out of me :D
could you tell us more about what type and brand, model of bender you are using?
Its a baileigh industrial mandrel bender
@@cornfieldcustoms Thank you
What would it cost to have 2 rails similarly made to a customer's specs?
Full length rails start at $1100 a pair, just comes down to over all design
@cornfieldcustoms thanks. That is a lot cheaper than heavily modifying a stock frame.
That you for sharing your sick ass machine. I never knew I needed one till now.
That's hardcore
My mind just got bent both ways. 😆 Outstanding! 👊
Right A Tech @ Work Mind Melt Down Tech
Very interesting video, quite the process for making the bends for the frame rails.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Really appreciate watching the quality of your work! Thanks
Thanks i appreciate you watching
Not going to complain about the cost
If I ever get to do a car the way I want to.
Can i buy from you ??
Yep
Ok do you have a website
@@PeterHatch-mx7zc Cornfieldcustomsltd.com
Do you have a video of actually building a frame? Bending was fascinating thank you.
No I currently do not
@@cornfieldcustoms future video may be? Thanks for the answer
@@311Bob maybe, I dont do a ton of full chassis any more. Maybe one a year. The rails and metal shaping keep me crazy busy
@@cornfieldcustoms well in the off chance that you will I'll keep watching. Thanks
Makes me want to build a car! Thanks
.....what those rails for?.....
These were drawn by the client and CAD file sent over for me to bend. I don't always know what they are for, A lot of times i bend off client provided dimensions or sketches
@@cornfieldcustoms so hopefully no backlash comes to you concerning misshaping.....
@@yobop6072 if they design the rails or approve the print i make there is no backlash since they approved design or designed themselves
@@cornfieldcustoms well seems to me a nice clean a stronger method of frame making....no pie cuts or splicing..... I like that....good piece for the shop....kinda pricey but if you do enough of this kind of work it will pay for itself.....
Man you be happy whit a 1 ton overhead crane.
Just a few questions: (1) are these frame rails for your project or do you bend frame rails for others.?? (2) how often do you bend/make frame rails.?? (3) finally how long did it take you to figure out the best place to put that bender in your shop..??
Amazing video and very enlightening.
I bend a lot of rails for other individuals and shops, as well as projects in the shop. On average I bending rails weekly. It didnt take me to long to figure out location as i only had a few spots that it would fit with enough room for the swing out
That was amazing, I would like to run the machine. How long did the process take to bend those rails. 💯🆒
Nice machine, never seen before!
Thanx
That machine is pretty rad! your videos are packed full of info.
Thanks glad you like them!
This was a lot of work. I had asked a ballpark figure thru IG once, and your answer seemed surprisingly reasonable...now, even moreso. I don't have the money (or the right project) yet, but I have so many ideas! lol
It appears that there's nothing that you're not capable of or a master at. Hopefully, all is good with you as you've been unusually quiet since SEMA.
Thanks. I left sema and went to work at a buddies shop in Huntington beach for a week, then raced El Mirage. Currently on the way home
You mention that you get your frame bend specs from Bend-tech. Is that a software program you have that lists various vehicles with their specs? I am looking for a specific vehicle. Where do I go to see if that is available? Thank you. John