I think the difference come from the transparent plastic case of 221 : the infrared rays can be more easily go to the thermcam than the 222, but instead this, your test is concluding : WAGO Wins!
I also think, that the differences are due to different emissivity and transmissivity of the different plastic materials. And also due to the fact mentioned above - the distance between the wires coming into the clamps.
As far as I can tell the actual metal clamping bits aren’t really different between the two style, they’re just using levers differently to open them up.
I tested both of them with currents within operating range (~26 amps) and wires in the entry to 221 was slightly warmer. Also patch on a copper wire is slightly deeper after 222. But damn this thing looks so much nicer than 222.
The clear housing really helps when you have "less than ideal" conditions. The other day I rewired a fluorescent fixture for LED and just re-used the stripped ends, which were significantly shorter than the recommended 11mm. With the clear housing I had no difficulty to align them in the clamp. Sure I could have done the right thing, re-stripped the wires, and used a 222 with confidence, but it was just a quick and dirty fix. I don't quite know how those lights got certified anyway, the wires inside must be 0.5mm^2 or less (from the terminal to the ballast). I think you are right that the 222 is slightly better thermally, just not sure if it matters in typical use.
@@stefantrethan I used the Wago 222 during this Pandemic for the first time to fix a light fixture and I felt 221s are better. 1. It's transparent 2. Has partition between wires. 3. More flatter so goes behind a wall light fixture's enclosure easily.
Wire nuts have slightly less resistance, so they stay very marginally less hot at more reasonable currents. Behavior when the wire insulation melts off isn’t all that relevant to the real world. The advantages of using wagos way outweigh the little benefit wire nuts provide in contact resistance.
It would have been nice if you got the whole meter display in frame so we didn't have to guess at the mA or A. All I can make out is a bit of the m so I'm guessing the current at the beginning is mA. It would also be nice to see how many amps an old twist-on wire nut could withstand.
It's mV - he is actually measuring the voltage. Current terminals are not plugged in, and the max would be 10A anyway. He knows some trick to convert Voltage readings to Amps - I wonder how that's done.... maybe if he can ensure that the net resistance of the system is 1kΩ, then you would get 1 Amp for every mV you add? Edit: ah no, he is using an external clamp to display 1mV for each A that's measured by the clamp. :)
Just do wire pull test - new wago 221 easily wire pulls out. Old wago 222 - very hard to pull out. If you use solid wire, then with the new 221 wago you can feel wire spin inside connector. Old Wago 222 - you bend wire if you try to rotate the connector. This means good spring strength.
How long did you have it on 32 amps, mind my asking ? A test of how much heat is present from an hour, to say a day, rather *how much heat can build up* I think would be quite helpful to know.
With something this size the thermal response time is only a few minutes. Sure it would be slightly warmer after an hour, but since the temperature asymptotically approaches the steady-state temperature there are diminishing returns.
I have no idea, the experiment was not set up to determine that with any accuracy. At the rated 32A the temperature increase is well within what all involved materials can handle, so I did not continue at that current for long, but I would estimate they both stay well below 50°C indefinitely. It might actually be interesting to repeat this test at 32A, but with thermocouples attached to the terminals for accuracy. At the same time one should measure the voltage drop at each terminal and calculate contact resistance. One would have to take much more care about the length and spacing of the connecting wires, since any difference in conducted heat would throw off the result.
Yeah, its the resistance that is basically going to make or break whether or not I use these or not. Would you mind possibly, if you do such a test, mind getting an Ideal push on connector in there at the start and end of the wire too ? They are push in only (there is a fake lever version, not real), and I am wondering if their resistance is any more/less than the Wagos presented here. And uh, it might be nice to test out the wire nuts ( pre twisted) too, since they (when pre twisted) pretty much *never* have heating problems.
Just did a quick test measuring the resistance of a 100mm piece of 2,5mm^2 wire, it came out to 0.72mOhm (good match with 0.714mOhm clculated value). I used 30A and 4 wire method, two samples, automatic data recording, and repeated the test multiple times, so I am fairly confident in the measured values. Then I cut the wire samples apart in the middle, stripped them, and spliced them with both wago connectors. The 221 increased the resistance by 0.46mOhm, and the 222 by 8.6mOhm. There is a good amount of variation in these measurements, probably because I removed and applied the terminal between each test and it is not always clamping in exactly the same way, but the 222 was consistently higher resistance. The most interesting result was the Wago 273 push-on connector (they do not sell the Ideal here), that only increased the resistance by 0.1mOhm. I did not expect that, but the results are repeatable. I have always considered the push-on connector inferior, but perhaps it creates a better contact because it scrapes the wire surface as you push it in?
@@stefantrethan In series is a flaw test. They should have been individually tested to see individual results. The resistance of one connector would offset the overall current to next device or vice versa.
You almost understand electricity, you are correct that voltage drop on one would change the voltage on the other and thus the power however you said it would change the current which is unequivocally false. series current is ALWAYS the same.
@@integr8er66 the heat dissipation is found by taking the product of the voltage and current, so if both have roughly the same resistance/impedance the heat produced would be comparable to what it would see at half that amperage at full line voltage give or take the wire impedance on either side of this little setup. The wire conducting heat does equalize things a bit though
I just tried and the wire spins easily in both types (1.5mm^2 solid), I am far from twisting the wire itself with either terminal. Checking the impression on a piece of solder wire I would say the 222 has more contact pressure, but it isn't a big difference that would really worry me. I can not pull the wire out of the 221, using reasonable force. If I use pliers I can pull it out but the spring shaves a chip off the wire.
Perhaps I was not clear, my test was using 2 wires 2.5mm2 solid core. I used wago 222 3 wire connector and the springs were so tight I could twist the two wires together. Wire length was like 15cm. Same experiment was impossible with new wago 221. Keep in mind solid core wires have different flexibility. One wire might be very had, other softer. My wires were quite hard.
the meter is set to millivolts A/C, what kind of shunt are you using? is that scaled to amps? I can't believe that small wire is holding 115 amps. is that correct?
I'm using a Fluke current clamp that outputs 1mV/A. For a short time the wire can handle it, if you think about it it's only 3.5 times nominal load of this 4mm^2 wire. And it does get a few hundred degree C hot instead of something like 70 or 80, which regular house installation wire is rated for.
@@stefantrethan well I'm in the US, so I'm not familiar with ampacity when wire size is in mm 😁. Thx for the test I was wondeing if you had 12Ga wire if 20 amps would be any issue, apparently not even close to an problem.
@@JasonW. So that would mean it can carry 20 amps, 110 amps is 5.5 times that amount, but you are correct in that it got super hot, and that would raise its resistance and thus lower the amps
@@integr8er66 NEC derates wires to 80%, IIRC beyond 30° C, and they can further be derated depending on use, environment, etc. 12 AWG can easily not melt at amperage well above 20A. It just isn't safe, so breakers are set to 20. Even a 20A breaker will allow much more amperage through, but just for very short periods of time. Example, 120V 3/4 HP pump.
I believe the size of the housing makes a difference (heatsink effect). Also "Unit" is not wrong, the closer together wires do heat up more and are a significant error factor. I did not repeat the test with other clamps, because the outcome was "similar" and both can handle well in excess of their specified current.
The ones from wish are crap, they use cheap plastic and don't hold on tight either. Just get the real ones since they will hold and aren't much more expensive :)
AMAZING THE LUG CLAMP WITH A SCREW SURVIVE THE TEST AND COPPER STILL NEW FROM THAT END...VS WAGO...TURN TO ASHES...WAGO=FAILURE....LUG CLAMPS SHOULD BE STANDARD FOR PIGTAIL WIRES
The wires on the right were making contact, they were touching for a good one or two inches, thus they bypassed the connector and current had a lot more surface to travel/jump. It would make sense if both connections were equally apart. Huge difference a bite at the tip versus two inches of contact. Yet, still interesting.
Of course they were not touching, this experiment was made in a three dimensional world and the wires were well spaced apart in the vertical direction. Otherwise the right connector would not see as much current and be colder, besides, I was there.
Well comparing them does not make whole lot of sense because there is no chance that you can have 2mins of over current if you have normal installation with normal circuit breakers
That's like asking why do car programmes test how cars behave when driven at speeds that far exceed the speeds that can be driven on public roads. Also VDE tools are tested at 10KV but only rated up to 1000V. Why do they bother testing above 1000V?
It's called "stress testing", you test materials outside of the normal bounds of working in order to ascertain the headroom, and to ensure they work orders of magnitude beyond the expected use.
This was the largest wire size that would fit in this connector - 4mm^2. There is no point testing the connector with wires that can't physically be used with it.
The whole conductor is stripped and painted white, as explained in the video. If you do not strip it the smoke from the burning PVC totally obscures the view. The paint is necessary to allow valid infrared temperature measurements.
I think that your test was pointless: why use terminals capable of withstand up to 100 Amps with crapy wires? Most of the heat come from wires, not the terminals.
@@rmatveev They look thin because they are stripped and paited white for emissivity. Copious amounts of smoke prevented me from leaving the original PVC insulation on them.
Its very big FAKE because wires to the 221 are closer to each other than 222 (on the left) so those wires heating up 221 much more than 222. Make this test again with new one connectors and wires (2.5mm2) and before powering up make sure to have same temperature and AIR FLOW on every side - then test will be much more realistic.
I will not be the judge on how significant the difference is but yea he might have a point in regard that the wires have slightly different arrangement and therefore will have different "heat dissipating" conditions. The wires closer to each other will dissipate about the same amount of heat but here it is important to remember that the wires close to each other will absorb more of the heat radiated away from the neighbouring wire. What also will be a theoretical factor is the heat transfer from the wires into the concrete slabs but probably not that significant given that the concrete isn't the best heat conductor. I'm not sure if the difference between THIS test and a test done with a professional lab setup will show any significant different results. I personally think your test showed very interesting results and is precise enough for most people to live with. What really surprised me was how good the connectors was able to conduct high currents. I have a box full of Wago 222 and i will use them with much higher confidence after watching this video. Great video. Thank you!
Wow, at 100a to fail these are just fine for the 20A circuit I use them for. Love these connectors I use them for all my jobs in Texas.
Texas ? You mean You're american that uses wago's instead of wire nuts ?
Hell yeah brother!
@@Dinco422 Hell yeah I use them, they are huge labor savers and they make troubleshooting a breeze.
120A!!! Circuit breaker already activated at 20A... should be damn safe
Impressive that the contact was still good after the housing melted off.
I think the difference come from the transparent plastic case of 221 : the infrared rays can be more easily go to the thermcam than the 222, but instead this, your test is concluding : WAGO Wins!
I also think, that the differences are due to different emissivity and transmissivity of the different plastic materials. And also due to the fact mentioned above - the distance between the wires coming into the clamps.
As far as I can tell the actual metal clamping bits aren’t really different between the two style, they’re just using levers differently to open them up.
I tested both of them with currents within operating range (~26 amps) and wires in the entry to 221 was slightly warmer. Also patch on a copper wire is slightly deeper after 222. But damn this thing looks so much nicer than 222.
The clear housing really helps when you have "less than ideal" conditions. The other day I rewired a fluorescent fixture for LED and just re-used the stripped ends, which were significantly shorter than the recommended 11mm. With the clear housing I had no difficulty to align them in the clamp.
Sure I could have done the right thing, re-stripped the wires, and used a 222 with confidence, but it was just a quick and dirty fix.
I don't quite know how those lights got certified anyway, the wires inside must be 0.5mm^2 or less (from the terminal to the ballast).
I think you are right that the 222 is slightly better thermally, just not sure if it matters in typical use.
stefantrethan Oh yeah. Clear housing was really useful couple of times for the same reason.
@@stefantrethan I used the Wago 222 during this Pandemic for the first time to fix a light fixture and I felt 221s are better. 1. It's transparent
2. Has partition between wires.
3. More flatter so goes behind a wall light fixture's enclosure easily.
Do the same with traditional red or tan wire nuts, a lot of folks claim they don't use the WAGOs because they can't take the heat like wire nut can.
Wire nuts have slightly less resistance, so they stay very marginally less hot at more reasonable currents. Behavior when the wire insulation melts off isn’t all that relevant to the real world.
The advantages of using wagos way outweigh the little benefit wire nuts provide in contact resistance.
so what i'm seeing is that these will be just fine on a 20a circuit.
It would have been nice if you got the whole meter display in frame so we didn't have to guess at the mA or A. All I can make out is a bit of the m so I'm guessing the current at the beginning is mA.
It would also be nice to see how many amps an old twist-on wire nut could withstand.
It's mV - he is actually measuring the voltage. Current terminals are not plugged in, and the max would be 10A anyway. He knows some trick to convert Voltage readings to Amps - I wonder how that's done.... maybe if he can ensure that the net resistance of the system is 1kΩ, then you would get 1 Amp for every mV you add?
Edit: ah no, he is using an external clamp to display 1mV for each A that's measured by the clamp. :)
Just do wire pull test - new wago 221 easily wire pulls out.
Old wago 222 - very hard to pull out.
If you use solid wire, then with the new 221 wago you can feel
wire spin inside connector. Old Wago 222 - you bend wire if you try to rotate
the connector. This means good spring strength.
Very helpful.
How long did you have it on 32 amps, mind my asking ? A test of how much heat is present from an hour, to say a day, rather *how much heat can build up* I think would be quite helpful to know.
With something this size the thermal response time is only a few minutes. Sure it would be slightly warmer after an hour, but since the temperature asymptotically approaches the steady-state temperature there are diminishing returns.
So in theory, it should never pass 36degrees on the 221, and 27ish on the 222 ?
I have no idea, the experiment was not set up to determine that with any accuracy.
At the rated 32A the temperature increase is well within what all involved materials can handle, so I did not continue at that current for long, but I would estimate they both stay well below 50°C indefinitely.
It might actually be interesting to repeat this test at 32A, but with thermocouples attached to the terminals for accuracy. At the same time one should measure the voltage drop at each terminal and calculate contact resistance. One would have to take much more care about the length and spacing of the connecting wires, since any difference in conducted heat would throw off the result.
Yeah, its the resistance that is basically going to make or break whether or not I use these or not. Would you mind possibly, if you do such a test, mind getting an Ideal push on connector in there at the start and end of the wire too ? They are push in only (there is a fake lever version, not real), and I am wondering if their resistance is any more/less than the Wagos presented here. And uh, it might be nice to test out the wire nuts ( pre twisted) too, since they (when pre twisted) pretty much *never* have heating problems.
Just did a quick test measuring the resistance of a 100mm piece of 2,5mm^2 wire, it came out to 0.72mOhm (good match with 0.714mOhm clculated value). I used 30A and 4 wire method, two samples, automatic data recording, and repeated the test multiple times, so I am fairly confident in the measured values.
Then I cut the wire samples apart in the middle, stripped them, and spliced them with both wago connectors.
The 221 increased the resistance by 0.46mOhm, and the 222 by 8.6mOhm. There is a good amount of variation in these measurements, probably because I removed and applied the terminal between each test and it is not always clamping in exactly the same way, but the 222 was consistently higher resistance.
The most interesting result was the Wago 273 push-on connector (they do not sell the Ideal here), that only increased the resistance by 0.1mOhm. I did not expect that, but the results are repeatable. I have always considered the push-on connector inferior, but perhaps it creates a better contact because it scrapes the wire surface as you push it in?
the connectors are in series. . .should not they have been in parallel, like the way houses are wired? Was the test ac amps, or dc amps?
The test was AC amps. The connectors are is series so they all see the same current.
@@stefantrethan In series is a flaw test. They should have been individually tested to see individual results. The resistance of one connector would offset the overall current to next device or vice versa.
You almost understand electricity, you are correct that voltage drop on one would change the voltage on the other and thus the power however you said it would change the current which is unequivocally false. series current is ALWAYS the same.
@@redheli1 current remains constant in entire circuit
@@integr8er66 the heat dissipation is found by taking the product of the voltage and current, so if both have roughly the same resistance/impedance the heat produced would be comparable to what it would see at half that amperage at full line voltage give or take the wire impedance on either side of this little setup. The wire conducting heat does equalize things a bit though
What a good insulation for wires
You used to melt army men when you were kid ?
Do wire spin test in both connectors. Use 2 solid core wires. You will be able to twist wire together with wago 222.
I just tried and the wire spins easily in both types (1.5mm^2 solid), I am far from twisting the wire itself with either terminal.
Checking the impression on a piece of solder wire I would say the 222 has more contact pressure, but it isn't a big difference that would really worry me.
I can not pull the wire out of the 221, using reasonable force. If I use pliers I can pull it out but the spring shaves a chip off the wire.
Perhaps I was not clear, my test was using 2 wires 2.5mm2 solid core. I used wago 222 3 wire connector and the springs were so tight I could twist the two wires together. Wire length was like 15cm.
Same experiment was impossible with new wago 221.
Keep in mind solid core wires have different flexibility. One wire might be very had, other softer. My wires were quite hard.
Hello what Best I use?
Which voltage did you use in the test?
the meter is set to millivolts A/C, what kind of shunt are you using? is that scaled to amps? I can't believe that small wire is holding 115 amps. is that correct?
I'm using a Fluke current clamp that outputs 1mV/A. For a short time the wire can handle it, if you think about it it's only 3.5 times nominal load of this 4mm^2 wire. And it does get a few hundred degree C hot instead of something like 70 or 80, which regular house installation wire is rated for.
@@stefantrethan well I'm in the US, so I'm not familiar with ampacity when wire size is in mm 😁. Thx for the test I was wondeing if you had 12Ga wire if 20 amps would be any issue, apparently not even close to an problem.
@@integr8er66 4mm^2 wire is same as 12 AWG
@@JasonW. So that would mean it can carry 20 amps, 110 amps is 5.5 times that amount, but you are correct in that it got super hot, and that would raise its resistance and thus lower the amps
@@integr8er66 NEC derates wires to 80%, IIRC beyond 30° C, and they can further be derated depending on use, environment, etc.
12 AWG can easily not melt at amperage well above 20A. It just isn't safe, so breakers are set to 20. Even a 20A breaker will allow much more amperage through, but just for very short periods of time. Example, 120V 3/4 HP pump.
Why was the 221 warmer? Is the resistance in the clamp higher? Did you repeat this test with other clamps to verify?
I believe the size of the housing makes a difference (heatsink effect).
Also "Unit" is not wrong, the closer together wires do heat up more and are a significant error factor.
I did not repeat the test with other clamps, because the outcome was "similar" and both can handle well in excess of their specified current.
Unit? you mean Norbert?
Are those the cheap clamps I see on wish?
No these are genuine Wago.
The ones from wish are crap, they use cheap plastic and don't hold on tight either. Just get the real ones since they will hold and aren't much more expensive :)
Why do you suppose they're only rated to 20A in MY environment?
20A rating is for Japan (JET/PSE)
32A is for Europe (ENEC), China (CQC), US and Canada (cULus).
The japanese have trust issue 😂
so.... any chance of repeating with the 6mm2 221 wagos?
I have them here, but not too keen, since even the 4mm2 ones can survive more than I would ever use the 6mm2 ones for.
Sweet video!
AMAZING THE LUG CLAMP WITH A SCREW SURVIVE THE TEST AND COPPER STILL NEW FROM THAT END...VS WAGO...TURN TO ASHES...WAGO=FAILURE....LUG CLAMPS SHOULD BE STANDARD FOR PIGTAIL WIRES
yes, I already see you installing this cable diameter always
The wires on the right were making contact, they were touching for a good one or two inches, thus they bypassed the connector and current had a lot more surface to travel/jump.
It would make sense if both connections were equally apart. Huge difference a bite at the tip versus two inches of contact. Yet, still interesting.
Of course they were not touching, this experiment was made in a three dimensional world and the wires were well spaced apart in the vertical direction. Otherwise the right connector would not see as much current and be colder, besides, I was there.
I think you are confused. The insulated sheath may have been touching but current can't "jump" as you put it between two insulated wires.
Why are you mesuring voltage?
Clamp on current probe with voltage output.
The one that didn't produce a flame 👍
Well comparing them does not make whole lot of sense because there is no chance that you can have 2mins of over current if you have normal installation with normal circuit breakers
That's like asking why do car programmes test how cars behave when driven at speeds that far exceed the speeds that can be driven on public roads.
Also VDE tools are tested at 10KV but only rated up to 1000V. Why do they bother testing above 1000V?
@@stupot_64 because they want sell the cars in Germany too.
I heard Texas has no speed limit too?
It's called "stress testing", you test materials outside of the normal bounds of working in order to ascertain the headroom, and to ensure they work orders of magnitude beyond the expected use.
The connectors would not melt, if appropriate cable is used.
Heat up the connector by using too thin cables, hahaha
This was the largest wire size that would fit in this connector - 4mm^2.
There is no point testing the connector with wires that can't physically be used with it.
Also, that doesn't look installed properly, look at all the exposed conductor !
The whole conductor is stripped and painted white, as explained in the video.
If you do not strip it the smoke from the burning PVC totally obscures the view.
The paint is necessary to allow valid infrared temperature measurements.
OH, never mind. Just reread your comment. Sorry.
@@stefantrethan yes, use blank cables with bigger diameter, that do not heat up and give heat to the connectors
I think that your test was pointless: why use terminals capable of withstand up to 100 Amps with crapy wires?
Most of the heat come from wires, not the terminals.
This is the maximum wire size the terminals will accept.
@@stefantrethan ah! It was awg 12?
@@rmatveev 4mm^2
@@stefantrethan Oh, cool! They looked so thin in your video. In this case I'm taking back my words. You did everything right!
@@rmatveev They look thin because they are stripped and paited white for emissivity.
Copious amounts of smoke prevented me from leaving the original PVC insulation on them.
Its very big FAKE because wires to the 221 are closer to each other than 222 (on the left) so those wires heating up 221 much more than 222. Make this test again with new one connectors and wires (2.5mm2) and before powering up make sure to have same temperature and AIR FLOW on every side - then test will be much more realistic.
Please, why would that make any difference?
I will not be the judge on how significant the difference is but yea he might have a point in regard that the wires have slightly different arrangement and therefore will have different "heat dissipating" conditions.
The wires closer to each other will dissipate about the same amount of heat but here it is important to remember that the wires close to each other will absorb more of the heat radiated away from the neighbouring wire. What also will be a theoretical factor is the heat transfer from the wires into the concrete slabs but probably not that significant given that the concrete isn't the best heat conductor.
I'm not sure if the difference between THIS test and a test done with a professional lab setup will show any significant different results.
I personally think your test showed very interesting results and is precise enough for most people to live with. What really surprised me was how good the connectors was able to conduct high currents. I have a box full of Wago 222 and i will use them with much higher confidence after watching this video.
Great video. Thank you!
Красавчики ваговцы!
And?...
Трябваше да оставят и старите клеми
Ваго направиха грешка.
watch?v=SrcxJQ7plX4 Wago overload test ;) :D
совсем дурные ЧЁ ЛЬ?!!!!!
This is fake. You can see that the Multimeter is showing mV
Would it help if I told you there is a Fluke 80i-410 current probe off screen?