You don’t have to hold up mana in every deck. Tap-out control is definitely a thing. I run Muldrotha (actually powering her down a little bit right now) and most of her cards are interactive pieces. Haywire Mite, Siren Stormtamer, Sylvan Safekeeper etc. You end up holding very little mana, if any. Another deck I love is my Rakdos, Lord of Riots big Stompy. He still has some board control elements to interact with problem permanents. The deck has very few instants to hold up, just bodies that become cheap or free to cast, and take out opponents’ pieces. Deflecting Swat is too much money, but I do still run a Bolt Bend and a Not of this World to help protect the commander. Notably also cheap or free to cast, in the right situation. In general, cheaper answers and permission are easier to hold up. Whether you’re using a cost reducer or just opting for a spell that’s a bit narrow, you will be able to hold up mana much more easily and still play the game. Oona, Queen of the Fae is a great commander to teach this idea, since she is in blue-black and is stapled to an X mana sink. You will always have something to do with your mana, but don’t have to commit to it right away. Other commanders that have a mana sink stapled on include Oketra the True, Rhys the Redeemed, Hidetsugu Who Devours, and Kyodai, Soul of Kamigawa. No matter your preferred color or play style, you have options to hold up mana.
Nah threat assessment starts the moment I find out who is playing... Oh you think you can get away with having had killed my commander two times in one game 6 months ago? Have at you!
@@hugmonger Ooh yes! I'm now deckbuilding my graveyard decks to have answers to Valgavoth Terror Eater because there is one specific player in my LGS that sometimes runs a graveyard deck with it in the 99 and has a nasty habit to drop it in the graveyard to reanimate it, either through tutors or through discard. First time it happened I had no answer and spent the whole game twiddling my thumbs because I could do absolutely nothing with Vagavoth gobbling up everything I was supposed to send to the graveyard. Now I'm building a Muldrotha deck that is specifically capable of not losing to that. I have tech cards (like the Scarab God, who not only can exile Valgavoth from his graveyard before he can reanimate it, but will put a 4/4 copy of Valgavoth under MY control!) that I'm sliding into my deck if I so much as see that guy being physically present at the commander night at the LGS
Actually, I have a slight rebuttal with the threat assessment starting with with 'as soon as you reach the table.' I'd say it starts as soon as you start deckbuilding. I tend to ask myself "Is there a particular type of deck/card that I will struggle with?" And I'll immediately envision the threats that will give the deck issues. For example, a mono red aggro deck will probably prioritize the threat of Propaganda more than an Azorius control deck, and skilled deckbuilders will tailor their gameplan and deck accordingly. Probably a technicality, but hey. Algorithm points.
@@davidhower7095 I mean, I guess? There are a lot of generic guidelines to work with, though. Going wide decks will typically be weak to boardwipes, Voltron decks will typically be weak to dismantling key pieces, control decks will typically be weak to resilient value engines, etc, among issues in the color pie like answering enchantments in red, or answering artifacts in black.
I don't really agree with that. The way you should take threat assessment into account when building your deck is that you should be able to handle threats, period. Yes, you should defintely take into account weaknesses of your deck, but that's not quite threat assessment imo, and I don't think it should ever go as far as "what do I do against [specific card]". What you should think about is, do I have ways to handle enchantments? Can I destroy artifacts? Etc. A well-built deck is equipped for all sorts of things, and choosing your removal suite accordingly is definitely important.
Deck assessment is something most players need to learn. The mono blue deck probably isnt going to win with aggro, so pay attention to how many cards they have in hand. Very indicative of how close they are too combo-ing off. The aristocrat deck is probably going to win with some loop that involves a blood artist and sac outlet. Pay attention to those and remove them asap. A token deck with a big board presence but no cards in hand is threatening, but they’re hoping to top deck an overrun to close out the game. You are scared of them but maybe not as much as the combo player with 2/3 pieces assembled. Pay attention to what each decks win condition is and how close they are to making that happen. Great video as always
This topic always reminds me of the times I focused the combo/engine threat and other players got scared of ME, so they set me back or take me out then IMMEDIATLY lose to the one I was targeting.
I have a red chaos deck. It shuffle the board around, makes things random. Makes the the instant target, but outside combat damage there really isn't a wincon in Mono-Red. What the deck is preventing, targets, combos, and affects everyone. A chaos player like my deck I wouldn't make a threat as it equally impacts everyone. Basically it forces players to try and think outside their resources to fight each other. But thinking is hard and I'm the target. So I take the heat while the person I'm focusing on, usually a combo or token deck is running away. But because I have "flying creatures basically lose flying" and that's scary..... Or if a spell targets a single permanent, reselect at random a legal target.... That too is protecting your stuff DAVE.
@@chomper1329Chaos decks get hated out because they make games a lot longer and, to be honest, less interesting. Part of what makes games fun is actually being able to make plays and think about your deck vs the opponent. When you try to make everything random, why play magic? At that point you may as well play something else that uses the same amount of time without wasting it.
@@josiahclarke3535" grr play the game my way, any other way is not interesting and a waste of time" But then you also say think of how to use your deck vs the opponent. Walking contradiction... With random decks on the battlefield, you have to REALLY dig into your decks skills and capabilities. Learn to play a non-linear game. Quit playing checkers and learn chess. Mtg is chess..
Chaos playstyles that shift control of permanents do make for slow, boring games. Most decks aren’t built for losing the stuff they want to play, for something that doesn’t help with the gameplan to win. Swapping out a tribal decks creatures is pretty funny, but all it does is stall with on average the other players not getting enough pieces from the tribal player to make use of what they have compared to what they lost. If a card swapped control of all permanents to the left or right, then that would be interesting instead of playing a board that was drafted by pure chance
My "on site" friend made a Golgari Elf Tokens deck for casual play, once. My group *put a bounty* on his head, first to beat that deck got *any card* they wanted. I got Origins Gideon :P But don't ask me hod long it took to beat that damn deck 0.0 Whenever he sets a deck down, I get worried and start focusing him when I see what he's doing. Then he acts innocent, politics me out of the game, then wins and I just look at everyone else and go, "DO YOU SEE WHAT I WAS DOING?!" All in good fun, he takes *forever* to make one of his nuke-decks, which is the silver lining.
Threat assessment starts before I see commanders. It starts when I know who's at the table. Like I'm going to play something slow, my brother's going to play something with big creatures, and my friend's going to be the final boss who I kill with a Zoyowa Lava-Tongue trigger (the 23rd of the game)
As someone who only plays with friends, this is my answer as well... which is kinda an issue since that means I have to *ignore* that assessment when building my deck lest I counter their archetypes rather than build a cohesive deck.
And what happens when you play with other people? Because I read people posting "I attack the person I know less on the table" and that seems stupid. I mean, if you are a newbie I can understand that, especially if you are playing with a friend and two other people you don't know. But when you have been playing Commander for quite some time you have some knowledge of the format, and attacking someone for no real reason seems weird to me.
I've avoided so many big hits with "is he still targetable?" and have had several people back down a big beater my way because I said that. Or while declaring attackers "are you sure you want to swing at me?" sometimes its a bluff (because even taking the hit is less damaging than burning removal). Other times I use it and they take my warning with more heaft "can I take my commander getting removed again?".
The amount of times I've finally gotten through to someone about "run more interaction" and then seeing them fire off removal on complete non-threats only to then die to something they no longer had any removal to stop...
When playing casual with strangers, I think it's polite to warn them if you have 90% of a combo assembled. It avoids the anticlimax of a game ending with a boring lecture about how the combo works, and instead an exciting race to find removal. Sure, it's not the thing to do if you want to max your win percentages, but unless you want to play cEDH, you should always be prioritising the game over the win
My motto is to always be honest and upfront when people ask me about my cards or deck. I don’t just tell people if I’m about to win but if someone says “does that go infinite” etc I will be truthful.
Threat assessment, in my opinion, starts at deck building. When constructing your deck you should keep in mind what will disrupt you, what you will have a hard time answering, and what you really don't care about. Then your gameplay should reflect those priorities.
YESSSSS this is the way! Do you need your commander in play? If not, what do you need instead? Are you using your graveyard? Can you protect or rebuild your graveyard when it’s targeted? Are you playing permission? If so, are you using it offensively or defensively? Can you take out an artifact or enchantment? What types of threats can your current deck safely ignore?
Quit leaking the sauce lol My friends last night thought I was playing a control deck. I only ended up playing 3 pieces of removal but because I waited until it was the absolutely most impactful it made all the difference. 1 was an Avien Interupter stopping a game winning Exsanguinate. 1 was a lapse of certainty stopping a board wipe that would have hurt me more than anyone else. The last was destroying a damage doubler that prevented me from dying to a crackle with power.
I say both when forming the pod when commanders are revealed. And when people get to their pieces. I just finished a commander night where I played one card and assembled a powerful board stat. Aminatou's Augury into One with the Multiverse and Moon-Blessed Cleric into Omniscience. I paid 8 Mana to play about 30 CMC worth of spells that turn.
"When does threat assessment start?" When i'm sitting down at the table looking at who I am playing with and what decks they have out. I either know what to look out for or am about to learn.
Thank you, this is the area in which I continue to struggle. I used to play a lot of 1 v 1 but I eventually got fed up with things like combos and mana floods. I'm only doing commander for the foreseeable future and I appreciate your tutelage
You can assess threats when you know what your deck can and can't do. For example, i know that artifacts are a big threat to my mono black deck since i cant remove them without spending 7 mana on colorless removal
Threat assessment starts when you make your deck and consider what decks and gameplans it's weak to. It starts again when you see your opponents' commanders in the command zone.
Using Countersquall as the counter spell example in the video makes my day. One of the first counter-spells I ever used in modern, and still one of my favorites even now.
This is why salubrious snails advice to make your commander a compliment rather than a key to your deck is so interesting, because it borks the threat assessment if they assume you need your commander. My Piru deck doesn't care about Piru except as an escape hatch and life gain, since his death trigger never hits the other commanders. My chulane deck is a merfolk tribal control, but chulane itself is none of those things. He's just a useful card draw and Nana ramp that only occasionally comes out.
My latest deck is a old schooö burn/life removal red & black deck. So far it has worked pretty well but i'm goin to implement these ideas a bit more in my next game sesh with it.
Something big that is important to consider when assessing a threat is not only the opportunity cost of "what could the answer be saved for?" but also "what could be played instead of an answer?" If a threat can be safely ignored, even just for the time being, then it is an opportunity to further develop one's own game plan, be it by deploying a threat of one's own or by investing in more resources (ramp, card draw, etc.), and the tempo hit of playing a removal spell or counterspell compared to simply advancing one's own position is not to be understated in a multiplayer game.
A general rule of thumb I like to follow for threat assessment is potential. "What has the potential to snowball out of control the fastest/the hardest?" or something to that end. A lot of my friends kinda get... frustrated with how much sheer removal I try to throw into my decks but keeping other players suppressed on cards, creatures, etc. helps keep the game somewhat dynamic, especially with the political multiplayer aspect.
Threat assessment is decided for me as soon as I know the archetype of an opponent's deck. The combo player must die or be stopped first because in my pods there are decks that win on turn 2 sometimes if no one has removal.
A lot of times it also helps to talk to other players when you see what might seem like an obvious combo piece to you- because it might not be so to your other opponents. Each opponent is a resource when one player is trying to win!
Whenever I need someone in the playgroup to learn threat assessment, I hand them my Reality Chip deck. It's a pretty hard control list that aims to control the other 3 players as much as possible until it can assemble a divining top combo and win. Standard stuff. What has always helped those players is the sheer number of counterspells and interaction poimts they aren't used to. Some players see all the counterspells and spend it on everyone's early game spells simply because "Lmao I can counterspell your sol rimg and be fine, I'll draw another" only to find themselves unable to stop another player from winning in the late game, or unable to protect their combo. Others really start to focus on "Ok, what cards are actually issues if they hit the table and am I afraid of that card if I try to combo?" and are able to make much better threat assessment choices throught out the game doimg so. Usually, this experience translates to their games outside of playimg my deck, and they're able to more meaningfully interact with their own lists, making games more challenging and more fun for all of us.
“Does anyone have any artifacts or enchantments,” tilts me so much when my random dirdle artifact gets blown up, then a Defense of the Heart gets thrown into play by another player.
I'm pretty new, but the paradox of removal allocation has ended up making the new Master of Keys my favorite deck to play. While I have an okay counterspell suite, the issue with enchantment based removal has always been not great because of the majority being locked to sorcery speed and being attached to a permanent that itself can be removed, but unless I'm graveyard hated beyond recovery, Master of Keys is built to just redeploy them provided I keep chafe in my graveyard to exile out. Love that new options like Sheltered By Ghosts protect my own permanents, Trapped In The Screen is very fairly costed for hitting almost anything with its own ward, and flash options like Utter Insignificance with mutually assurred destruction feel very good when recurred during a game. Graveyard protection is insanely important though, Perpetual Timepiece and Enchanced Surveillance do great work in that department, but if I do draw into a limited tutor in my budget range like Demonic Counsel, I'm more often than not grabbing one of those, or the other one if I already have one. Esper really do be eating
Here is my answer before watching. I begin threat assessment after I've figured out what my deck's main strategy is, and worked out its main engines like card draw and ramp. After I've figured out how the deck works, I can start prioritizing what threats I'm weakest against and build around that. During the game, I am constantly keeping an eye out for what could make my opponents get out of control, such as playing things that combo or synergize well, or when a player starts drawing or ramping heavily.
Threat assessment begins when all 4 players sit at the table. There's a guy I play with who I've known for over a year now and he's only lost twice. Well, I immediately know he's the threat every game.
nah, as a Sliver player myself I can say, Slivers are a mid level threat. I do have some kind of alternative wincon (Manadork Sliver/Intruder Alarm, or Aluren and Hibernating Sliver and some ETB effect), but the deck can be easily dismantled by boardwipes and attack cancellation, and by removing key slivers. That blink doggo deck though, Phelia. Thats one hell of a resilient puppy :D
I play a lord windgrace "turbo ramp" deck and my playgroup is now pretty used to it, the deck tends to lose to fast combo and being aggroed down during the ramp turns, but I notice that when I bring it to other playgroups they kinda just ignore me ramping until its too late and I start slamming eldrazi and so many landfall triggers that the table cant keep up with my late game
My threat assessment starts when i see what commanders are in the game. "That one is part of a two card combo, that one hates out my deck's strategy, thats just Atraxa."
The comment about draw as being a serious threat to consider reminded me of our latest casual game where a friend let me stomp him with my big stuff (I was playing OG Goreclaw) but when I wanted to cast Return of the Wildspeaker on his end step, he went with Disorder in Court to exile my entire board until the beginnig of MY end step, because he just didn't want me to draw tons. The other player even Nihil Spellbombed my graveyard then for good measure (he didn't know I had Eternal Witness in hand, so it really hurt hard) beacuse they just didn't want me to pop off too much... I could at least Fade into History his like 17 clues and Wilderness Reclamation (he had Morska) that I was holding up ever since the second friend dropped a Whispersilk Cloak on his Amalia Benavides and we called it even :D But we, as a playgroup, have been playing together for years, so we don't get salty for things like hitting the combo/control player for loads while he still has an empty-ish board, as it strategically makes sense. The only thing we really try to limit is unfun decks and people playing only high budget decks, beacuse we don't want to pressure everyone in the group to spend like crazy for casual games. We also run a variation on the super-budget challenges, where every card has to be under 50 cents (inculding commanders) and play only with those and it's sick what some people manage to brew with that.
For me the threat assessment process starts the moment we flip our commanders up. Might just be the control player in me talking but if I see that someone has a commander thatll interfere with my ability to play instants then that commander is never sticking around for long
Threat assessment starts as soon as i see who im playing against. I know how my playgroup plays, i know their budgets and strategies. There will always be one player who has more than others (money, skill, familiarity with the game, practice with the deck, etc.) That guy goes down first.
I as a typical control player have learned how to deal with threats without dealing with them, conserving my interaction for the most critical moments. And in EdH, I get a whopping 40 life points, what else can you ask for? I admit, I have a playgroup that doesn't mind my blue/white shenanigangs too much.
Hot take: In EDH life total is a resource, therefore a stompy and agro decks reducing life totals(not necessarily killing) is not only their path to victory but also a form of stax.
In my gisa the hell raiser deck I have an overflow of removal because each crime I commit becomes 2 zombies so I get to make a threat and remove other threats in one play
The biggest problem with threat assessment is that most players are not going to be able to remember all the details of even the most 50 played cards, let alone the most 1000 played and all the other obscure cards that power combos. It sucks having to constantly read everyone else's board state when they're playing cards that can potentially be abused. As such, my threat assessment is just try to destroy anyone that isn't just turning creatures sideways.
Threat assessment starts with pregame actions once everyone has Mulliganed and done pregames you have a lot of important information about whats going down you have your opponents hand size and also commander also if they had any pregames like for instance leylines or gemstone caverns
Honestly, it doesn’t matter when I play my removal, because my playgroup’s decks are all proxied and are crammed with the most broken cards. Most guys at the board have basically a turn 3-4 clock that my deck can’t keep up with, and I simply stall by using my removal spells. I would care more about spell usage if we played more fair, closer to vanilla magic, but we don’t. I’ve only won a single game in that playgroup, and it was a three-person, Naya showdown. In that game, my removal spells ACTUALLY mattered and worked to my advantage. I wasn’t just throwing out a board wipe because it was an emergency, I wasn’t just using artifact/enchantment removal reactively. But that was only because the decks I was playing against were easier to understand and respond to than the messes of decks I usually have to play against.
now i want to know Khan's thoughts on if go for the throat is bad. i know ive heard the stats on it somewhere(prob mtg goldfish?) and that in theory shoot the sheriff hits more cards than go for the throat but idk if either is realistically good.
0:37 a great tip I give to newbies is... it's ok to do bad threat assessment. You don't aim to lose games due to bad assessment, but it can happen to the best of us. Last night I had a chance to kill Player A, but I killed player B out of fear, because I'm not faniliar with his new deck. In the end, player A killed me. Player B said I made a dumb choice and... I agreed. You don't know the enemies hands and strategies, so you have to make educated previsions and sometimes you make wrong ones. And that's ok in a casual format. Train enough to be right more times than you're wrong.
Actually telling who cares about life total or who is being real quiet setting up for a combo to determine who to attack is a thing I wish that EDH players would do more because it would make a lot of the games I play quite different.
3:02 Why? It's no different from Go for the Throat stats-wise (casting cost, colors, effect) and Go for the Throat is considered a staple. Shoot the Sherrif currently has 1009 creatures that it can't hit (scryfall query -> t:creature (t:assassin or t:mercenary or t:pirate or t:rogue or t:warlock)), 206 of which can be a commander Go for the Throat currently has 1048 creatures that it can't hit (scryfall query -> t:artifact t:creature), 82 of which can be a commander So I'm not sure why it "sucks". Sure, it's not a GREAT card, but there isn't anything particularly wrong with it. It hits more stuff than Doom Blade does.
Note that if you play with adults, they explain what cards MIGHT do and volunteer that yes, their enchantment IS the biggest threat on the table. If you don't, you have to rely on your memory of 30 years' worth of cards - good luck with that.
As a stompy players it’s very annoying that people only focus on size in my group. They often make me the target because of my 8/8 instead of the person with 5 more mana than me and 3 card draw engines
Threat assessment starts when you sit down and see what commanders they are playing. Or maybe if you have a guy in your group that always has the strongest decks maybe it starts before that even....
As soon as my commander is out, he dies, and that's fair because if he didn't, I'd win. I've played in several pods where they would feel bad if they removed Endrek, so i had show them why it would've been a proper move.
I would disagree on the Fusion Elemental vs Ragavan example for the same reasons you mention in the video. Until you know where people point their threats, they should be weighted as less dangerous. The 1 treasure from Ragavan might be 'soaked up' by the rest of the table. On the other hand, I KNOW that the 6 extra damage from the elemental will impact me and the rest of the game. If the pod is not a complete durdle fest, then I would take the trade of 6 life vs 1 treasure nearly every time. But of course that is always playgroup and style dependent. In general I feel that commander players value taking chip damage (and having lifegain in decks) way to low. Love the topic!
Threat assessment starts when I stop greeding plays to actually hold up mana. Just one more turn of tapping out, just one more I swe--
I'm trying so hard to learn how to do this, but.... I have fun things I want to play. 😢
You don’t have to hold up mana in every deck. Tap-out control is definitely a thing. I run Muldrotha (actually powering her down a little bit right now) and most of her cards are interactive pieces. Haywire Mite, Siren Stormtamer, Sylvan Safekeeper etc. You end up holding very little mana, if any.
Another deck I love is my Rakdos, Lord of Riots big Stompy. He still has some board control elements to interact with problem permanents. The deck has very few instants to hold up, just bodies that become cheap or free to cast, and take out opponents’ pieces.
Deflecting Swat is too much money, but I do still run a Bolt Bend and a Not of this World to help protect the commander. Notably also cheap or free to cast, in the right situation.
In general, cheaper answers and permission are easier to hold up. Whether you’re using a cost reducer or just opting for a spell that’s a bit narrow, you will be able to hold up mana much more easily and still play the game.
Oona, Queen of the Fae is a great commander to teach this idea, since she is in blue-black and is stapled to an X mana sink. You will always have something to do with your mana, but don’t have to commit to it right away.
Other commanders that have a mana sink stapled on include Oketra the True, Rhys the Redeemed, Hidetsugu Who Devours, and Kyodai, Soul of Kamigawa. No matter your preferred color or play style, you have options to hold up mana.
As soon as I find out what commanders are being played, lol
Nah threat assessment starts the moment I find out who is playing... Oh you think you can get away with having had killed my commander two times in one game 6 months ago? Have at you!
@@hugmonger Ooh yes! I'm now deckbuilding my graveyard decks to have answers to Valgavoth Terror Eater because there is one specific player in my LGS that sometimes runs a graveyard deck with it in the 99 and has a nasty habit to drop it in the graveyard to reanimate it, either through tutors or through discard.
First time it happened I had no answer and spent the whole game twiddling my thumbs because I could do absolutely nothing with Vagavoth gobbling up everything I was supposed to send to the graveyard. Now I'm building a Muldrotha deck that is specifically capable of not losing to that.
I have tech cards (like the Scarab God, who not only can exile Valgavoth from his graveyard before he can reanimate it, but will put a 4/4 copy of Valgavoth under MY control!) that I'm sliding into my deck if I so much as see that guy being physically present at the commander night at the LGS
That's step one what about steps 2 thru 15?
Idk, every once in a while there’s a new player who built some strong commander, but the 99 is draft chaff
Actually, I have a slight rebuttal with the threat assessment starting with with 'as soon as you reach the table.' I'd say it starts as soon as you start deckbuilding.
I tend to ask myself "Is there a particular type of deck/card that I will struggle with?" And I'll immediately envision the threats that will give the deck issues. For example, a mono red aggro deck will probably prioritize the threat of Propaganda more than an Azorius control deck, and skilled deckbuilders will tailor their gameplan and deck accordingly.
Probably a technicality, but hey. Algorithm points.
Hmm. That’s an interesting idea. It’s just sorta tough to figure out what you’re bad against until it happens to you enough times.
@@davidhower7095 I mean, I guess? There are a lot of generic guidelines to work with, though. Going wide decks will typically be weak to boardwipes, Voltron decks will typically be weak to dismantling key pieces, control decks will typically be weak to resilient value engines, etc, among issues in the color pie like answering enchantments in red, or answering artifacts in black.
I’d say this is a technicality and that has more to do with building a well rounded deck
@@thetrinketmageyou would
I don't really agree with that.
The way you should take threat assessment into account when building your deck is that you should be able to handle threats, period. Yes, you should defintely take into account weaknesses of your deck, but that's not quite threat assessment imo, and I don't think it should ever go as far as "what do I do against [specific card]".
What you should think about is, do I have ways to handle enchantments? Can I destroy artifacts? Etc. A well-built deck is equipped for all sorts of things, and choosing your removal suite accordingly is definitely important.
Deck assessment is something most players need to learn.
The mono blue deck probably isnt going to win with aggro, so pay attention to how many cards they have in hand. Very indicative of how close they are too combo-ing off.
The aristocrat deck is probably going to win with some loop that involves a blood artist and sac outlet. Pay attention to those and remove them asap.
A token deck with a big board presence but no cards in hand is threatening, but they’re hoping to top deck an overrun to close out the game. You are scared of them but maybe not as much as the combo player with 2/3 pieces assembled.
Pay attention to what each decks win condition is and how close they are to making that happen.
Great video as always
This topic always reminds me of the times I focused the combo/engine threat and other players got scared of ME, so they set me back or take me out then IMMEDIATLY lose to the one I was targeting.
That can happen and sometimes you lose that political fight but often times players will learn from that
I have a red chaos deck. It shuffle the board around, makes things random. Makes the the instant target, but outside combat damage there really isn't a wincon in Mono-Red. What the deck is preventing, targets, combos, and affects everyone. A chaos player like my deck I wouldn't make a threat as it equally impacts everyone.
Basically it forces players to try and think outside their resources to fight each other. But thinking is hard and I'm the target. So I take the heat while the person I'm focusing on, usually a combo or token deck is running away. But because I have "flying creatures basically lose flying" and that's scary..... Or if a spell targets a single permanent, reselect at random a legal target.... That too is protecting your stuff DAVE.
@@chomper1329Chaos decks get hated out because they make games a lot longer and, to be honest, less interesting. Part of what makes games fun is actually being able to make plays and think about your deck vs the opponent. When you try to make everything random, why play magic? At that point you may as well play something else that uses the same amount of time without wasting it.
@@josiahclarke3535" grr play the game my way, any other way is not interesting and a waste of time"
But then you also say think of how to use your deck vs the opponent.
Walking contradiction...
With random decks on the battlefield, you have to REALLY dig into your decks skills and capabilities.
Learn to play a non-linear game. Quit playing checkers and learn chess. Mtg is chess..
Chaos playstyles that shift control of permanents do make for slow, boring games. Most decks aren’t built for losing the stuff they want to play, for something that doesn’t help with the gameplan to win. Swapping out a tribal decks creatures is pretty funny, but all it does is stall with on average the other players not getting enough pieces from the tribal player to make use of what they have compared to what they lost. If a card swapped control of all permanents to the left or right, then that would be interesting instead of playing a board that was drafted by pure chance
I can't threat assess because I am T H E T H R E A T
This is unironically my burn deck
That sounds suspiciously like an assessment
@@simon_herts😂😂😂
Big Sheoldred Energy
When I find out which of my friends is coming to Magic night. Some people are threats no matter what they are playing.
Facts
We all have that one friend! :D
My "on site" friend made a Golgari Elf Tokens deck for casual play, once.
My group *put a bounty* on his head, first to beat that deck got *any card* they wanted. I got Origins Gideon :P
But don't ask me hod long it took to beat that damn deck 0.0
Whenever he sets a deck down, I get worried and start focusing him when I see what he's doing. Then he acts innocent, politics me out of the game, then wins and I just look at everyone else and go, "DO YOU SEE WHAT I WAS DOING?!"
All in good fun, he takes *forever* to make one of his nuke-decks, which is the silver lining.
Threat assessment starts before I see commanders. It starts when I know who's at the table. Like I'm going to play something slow, my brother's going to play something with big creatures, and my friend's going to be the final boss who I kill with a Zoyowa Lava-Tongue trigger (the 23rd of the game)
As someone who only plays with friends, this is my answer as well... which is kinda an issue since that means I have to *ignore* that assessment when building my deck lest I counter their archetypes rather than build a cohesive deck.
And what happens when you play with other people? Because I read people posting "I attack the person I know less on the table" and that seems stupid.
I mean, if you are a newbie I can understand that, especially if you are playing with a friend and two other people you don't know. But when you have been playing Commander for quite some time you have some knowledge of the format, and attacking someone for no real reason seems weird to me.
@@Controlqueen31 Then it's based on commander
I've avoided so many big hits with "is he still targetable?" and have had several people back down a big beater my way because I said that.
Or while declaring attackers "are you sure you want to swing at me?" sometimes its a bluff (because even taking the hit is less damaging than burning removal). Other times I use it and they take my warning with more heaft "can I take my commander getting removed again?".
The amount of times I've finally gotten through to someone about "run more interaction" and then seeing them fire off removal on complete non-threats only to then die to something they no longer had any removal to stop...
Everyone has that learning experience.
When playing casual with strangers, I think it's polite to warn them if you have 90% of a combo assembled. It avoids the anticlimax of a game ending with a boring lecture about how the combo works, and instead an exciting race to find removal. Sure, it's not the thing to do if you want to max your win percentages, but unless you want to play cEDH, you should always be prioritising the game over the win
My motto is to always be honest and upfront when people ask me about my cards or deck. I don’t just tell people if I’m about to win but if someone says “does that go infinite” etc I will be truthful.
Threat assessment, in my opinion, starts at deck building. When constructing your deck you should keep in mind what will disrupt you, what you will have a hard time answering, and what you really don't care about. Then your gameplay should reflect those priorities.
YESSSSS this is the way!
Do you need your commander in play? If not, what do you need instead?
Are you using your graveyard? Can you protect or rebuild your graveyard when it’s targeted?
Are you playing permission? If so, are you using it offensively or defensively?
Can you take out an artifact or enchantment?
What types of threats can your current deck safely ignore?
Quit leaking the sauce lol
My friends last night thought I was playing a control deck.
I only ended up playing 3 pieces of removal but because I waited until it was the absolutely most impactful it made all the difference.
1 was an Avien Interupter stopping a game winning Exsanguinate. 1 was a lapse of certainty stopping a board wipe that would have hurt me more than anyone else. The last was destroying a damage doubler that prevented me from dying to a crackle with power.
I say both when forming the pod when commanders are revealed. And when people get to their pieces. I just finished a commander night where I played one card and assembled a powerful board stat.
Aminatou's Augury into One with the Multiverse and Moon-Blessed Cleric into Omniscience. I paid 8 Mana to play about 30 CMC worth of spells that turn.
0:37 before the game. The same 100 cards and have vastly different powerlevels between 2 ppl
“TTM with realistic eyes isn’t real, he can’t hurt you”
TTM with realistic eyes: 2:30
it caught me so off guard 😭
Threat assessment starts when the commanders flip
"When does threat assessment start?"
When i'm sitting down at the table looking at who I am playing with and what decks they have out. I either know what to look out for or am about to learn.
Thank you, this is the area in which I continue to struggle. I used to play a lot of 1 v 1 but I eventually got fed up with things like combos and mana floods. I'm only doing commander for the foreseeable future and I appreciate your tutelage
You can assess threats when you know what your deck can and can't do. For example, i know that artifacts are a big threat to my mono black deck since i cant remove them without spending 7 mana on colorless removal
when you see their commander in the commander zone :D
Threat assessment starts when you make your deck and consider what decks and gameplans it's weak to. It starts again when you see your opponents' commanders in the command zone.
4:33 did anyone else hear the audio go off there?
OMG Thank you I heard it too
beautiful little piano interlude to keep you focused
Threat assessment starts every morning whether I like it or not, never let down your guard 🫡
Using Countersquall as the counter spell example in the video makes my day. One of the first counter-spells I ever used in modern, and still one of my favorites even now.
This is why salubrious snails advice to make your commander a compliment rather than a key to your deck is so interesting, because it borks the threat assessment if they assume you need your commander. My Piru deck doesn't care about Piru except as an escape hatch and life gain, since his death trigger never hits the other commanders. My chulane deck is a merfolk tribal control, but chulane itself is none of those things. He's just a useful card draw and Nana ramp that only occasionally comes out.
My latest deck is a old schooö burn/life removal red & black deck. So far it has worked pretty well but i'm goin to implement these ideas a bit more in my next game sesh with it.
Threat assessment is a state based action. It is constantly updated on revealed information and assumed information based on decks and archetypes
Threat assessment starts the second I know what who my opponents are, not even the commanders they are playing.
Theeat assessment begins the second i sit down. Criminal levels of side eyeing ensues
Something big that is important to consider when assessing a threat is not only the opportunity cost of "what could the answer be saved for?" but also "what could be played instead of an answer?" If a threat can be safely ignored, even just for the time being, then it is an opportunity to further develop one's own game plan, be it by deploying a threat of one's own or by investing in more resources (ramp, card draw, etc.), and the tempo hit of playing a removal spell or counterspell compared to simply advancing one's own position is not to be understated in a multiplayer game.
Threat assessment can be as early as deck building by recognizing what hoses your plan and what you can live with if it hits.
Threat assessment happens as soon as i show my 5 color tutors the hedgehog deck
A general rule of thumb I like to follow for threat assessment is potential. "What has the potential to snowball out of control the fastest/the hardest?" or something to that end. A lot of my friends kinda get... frustrated with how much sheer removal I try to throw into my decks but keeping other players suppressed on cards, creatures, etc. helps keep the game somewhat dynamic, especially with the political multiplayer aspect.
Threat assessment is decided for me as soon as I know the archetype of an opponent's deck. The combo player must die or be stopped first because in my pods there are decks that win on turn 2 sometimes if no one has removal.
A lot of times it also helps to talk to other players when you see what might seem like an obvious combo piece to you- because it might not be so to your other opponents. Each opponent is a resource when one player is trying to win!
Fog Bank needs more love
Agreed, when you see who you’re playing against.
Whenever I need someone in the playgroup to learn threat assessment, I hand them my Reality Chip deck. It's a pretty hard control list that aims to control the other 3 players as much as possible until it can assemble a divining top combo and win. Standard stuff. What has always helped those players is the sheer number of counterspells and interaction poimts they aren't used to. Some players see all the counterspells and spend it on everyone's early game spells simply because "Lmao I can counterspell your sol rimg and be fine, I'll draw another" only to find themselves unable to stop another player from winning in the late game, or unable to protect their combo. Others really start to focus on "Ok, what cards are actually issues if they hit the table and am I afraid of that card if I try to combo?" and are able to make much better threat assessment choices throught out the game doimg so. Usually, this experience translates to their games outside of playimg my deck, and they're able to more meaningfully interact with their own lists, making games more challenging and more fun for all of us.
Trinket with eyes was more horrifying that I thought it would be
Threat Assessment begins when I see what my pod brought to the table.
“Does anyone have any artifacts or enchantments,” tilts me so much when my random dirdle artifact gets blown up, then a Defense of the Heart gets thrown into play by another player.
I'm pretty new, but the paradox of removal allocation has ended up making the new Master of Keys my favorite deck to play. While I have an okay counterspell suite, the issue with enchantment based removal has always been not great because of the majority being locked to sorcery speed and being attached to a permanent that itself can be removed, but unless I'm graveyard hated beyond recovery, Master of Keys is built to just redeploy them provided I keep chafe in my graveyard to exile out. Love that new options like Sheltered By Ghosts protect my own permanents, Trapped In The Screen is very fairly costed for hitting almost anything with its own ward, and flash options like Utter Insignificance with mutually assurred destruction feel very good when recurred during a game.
Graveyard protection is insanely important though, Perpetual Timepiece and Enchanced Surveillance do great work in that department, but if I do draw into a limited tutor in my budget range like Demonic Counsel, I'm more often than not grabbing one of those, or the other one if I already have one. Esper really do be eating
Theeat assessment starts the moment i see whos sitting down. And if i dont know them, the second i see their commander.
Paused to check the combo at the beginning. Nope, not building a deck around that, but it definitely works.
Threat assessment begins when a player sits down, even before the commander is revealed.
Threat assessment starts when I sit down at the table and my opponents show me their foiled out tutors.
Here is my answer before watching. I begin threat assessment after I've figured out what my deck's main strategy is, and worked out its main engines like card draw and ramp. After I've figured out how the deck works, I can start prioritizing what threats I'm weakest against and build around that. During the game, I am constantly keeping an eye out for what could make my opponents get out of control, such as playing things that combo or synergize well, or when a player starts drawing or ramping heavily.
Threat assessment starts when I sit down at the table, because I'm always the threat
Threat assessment begins when I walk into the store.
2:51 MY MAN
Threat assessment begins every time I think about how much I hate Rest in Peace and a Naturalize suddenly appears in my deck
Threat assessment begins when all 4 players sit at the table. There's a guy I play with who I've known for over a year now and he's only lost twice. Well, I immediately know he's the threat every game.
That sliver player: definitely an avengers level threat.
nah, as a Sliver player myself I can say, Slivers are a mid level threat. I do have some kind of alternative wincon (Manadork Sliver/Intruder Alarm, or Aluren and Hibernating Sliver and some ETB effect), but the deck can be easily dismantled by boardwipes and attack cancellation, and by removing key slivers.
That blink doggo deck though, Phelia. Thats one hell of a resilient puppy :D
who I assess as a threat is based off of their inital cards played/commander they use because it kind of gives me an idea of what they are going for
Threat assessment should be ongoing, sometimes the status of major threat can change.
Yeah during rule 0 or whoever has sol ring, arcane signet or command tower (known as the power 3 in our playgroup)
I play a lord windgrace "turbo ramp" deck and my playgroup is now pretty used to it, the deck tends to lose to fast combo and being aggroed down during the ramp turns, but I notice that when I bring it to other playgroups they kinda just ignore me ramping until its too late and I start slamming eldrazi and so many landfall triggers that the table cant keep up with my late game
My threat assessment starts when i see what commanders are in the game. "That one is part of a two card combo, that one hates out my deck's strategy, thats just Atraxa."
The comment about draw as being a serious threat to consider reminded me of our latest casual game where a friend let me stomp him with my big stuff (I was playing OG Goreclaw) but when I wanted to cast Return of the Wildspeaker on his end step, he went with Disorder in Court to exile my entire board until the beginnig of MY end step, because he just didn't want me to draw tons. The other player even Nihil Spellbombed my graveyard then for good measure (he didn't know I had Eternal Witness in hand, so it really hurt hard) beacuse they just didn't want me to pop off too much... I could at least Fade into History his like 17 clues and Wilderness Reclamation (he had Morska) that I was holding up ever since the second friend dropped a Whispersilk Cloak on his Amalia Benavides and we called it even :D
But we, as a playgroup, have been playing together for years, so we don't get salty for things like hitting the combo/control player for loads while he still has an empty-ish board, as it strategically makes sense. The only thing we really try to limit is unfun decks and people playing only high budget decks, beacuse we don't want to pressure everyone in the group to spend like crazy for casual games. We also run a variation on the super-budget challenges, where every card has to be under 50 cents (inculding commanders) and play only with those and it's sick what some people manage to brew with that.
Threat assessment starts when one of your opponents casts a turn 1 Sol Ring.
For me the threat assessment process starts the moment we flip our commanders up.
Might just be the control player in me talking but if I see that someone has a commander thatll interfere with my ability to play instants then that commander is never sticking around for long
One of the main reasons why people dont like playing against combos is that they often involve cards that are not "clear" threats.
Ok now, what do I do when I am against a turbo ramp deck, a combo deck and another turbo ramp deck? WHO THE HELL I AGRO
The dude with Sol Ring.
The dude with better mana sources, like what the one previously said, Sol Ring.
No one. Then play smolbeans and be the lesser threat, steering the ramp decks to focus the combo player - then each other. Then finish who is left.
Threat assessment starts as soon as i see who im playing against. I know how my playgroup plays, i know their budgets and strategies. There will always be one player who has more than others (money, skill, familiarity with the game, practice with the deck, etc.) That guy goes down first.
As a Ganax // Haunted One player I love the into to the video.
The most difficult part is managing opponents with BAD threat assessment.
You make videos I've needed to search for all week to learn how to solve problems I haven't shared with anyone yet. Wtf.
I as a typical control player have learned how to deal with threats without dealing with them, conserving my interaction for the most critical moments. And in EdH, I get a whopping 40 life points, what else can you ask for? I admit, I have a playgroup that doesn't mind my blue/white shenanigangs too much.
threat assessment is all based on how organized or chaotic their physical boards are
Hot take: In EDH life total is a resource, therefore a stompy and agro decks reducing life totals(not necessarily killing) is not only their path to victory but also a form of stax.
In my gisa the hell raiser deck I have an overflow of removal because each crime I commit becomes 2 zombies so I get to make a threat and remove other threats in one play
The biggest problem with threat assessment is that most players are not going to be able to remember all the details of even the most 50 played cards, let alone the most 1000 played and all the other obscure cards that power combos. It sucks having to constantly read everyone else's board state when they're playing cards that can potentially be abused. As such, my threat assessment is just try to destroy anyone that isn't just turning creatures sideways.
Threat assessment starts with pregame actions once everyone has Mulliganed and done pregames you have a lot of important information about whats going down you have your opponents hand size and also commander also if they had any pregames like for instance leylines or gemstone caverns
I will play Walk the Plank in my pirate deck forever, even if I keep running into a Tatyova that needs to get removed every time I play it.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter when I play my removal, because my playgroup’s decks are all proxied and are crammed with the most broken cards. Most guys at the board have basically a turn 3-4 clock that my deck can’t keep up with, and I simply stall by using my removal spells. I would care more about spell usage if we played more fair, closer to vanilla magic, but we don’t. I’ve only won a single game in that playgroup, and it was a three-person, Naya showdown. In that game, my removal spells ACTUALLY mattered and worked to my advantage. I wasn’t just throwing out a board wipe because it was an emergency, I wasn’t just using artifact/enchantment removal reactively. But that was only because the decks I was playing against were easier to understand and respond to than the messes of decks I usually have to play against.
Threat assessment starts when you flip up the commanders. Some commanders are just better than others
The secret to threat assessment is you let someone else worry about it.
Threat assessment starts as soon as commanders are revealed. "I'm playing Glunch," or, "I'm playing Phelddagrif," - you're enemy #1.
now i want to know Khan's thoughts on if go for the throat is bad. i know ive heard the stats on it somewhere(prob mtg goldfish?) and that in theory shoot the sheriff hits more cards than go for the throat but idk if either is realistically good.
I have seen the stats and in terms of playable cards I think throat is better, and in terms of commanders throat hits more.
Threat assessment starts when I step foot inside my LGS.
Threat assessment starts now!
I would love to finish watching this video but I got an exam coming up so I gotta lock in
0:37 a great tip I give to newbies is... it's ok to do bad threat assessment.
You don't aim to lose games due to bad assessment, but it can happen to the best of us.
Last night I had a chance to kill Player A, but I killed player B out of fear, because I'm not faniliar with his new deck.
In the end, player A killed me.
Player B said I made a dumb choice and... I agreed. You don't know the enemies hands and strategies, so you have to make educated previsions and sometimes you make wrong ones. And that's ok in a casual format.
Train enough to be right more times than you're wrong.
Actually telling who cares about life total or who is being real quiet setting up for a combo to determine who to attack is a thing I wish that EDH players would do more because it would make a lot of the games I play quite different.
Threat assessment starts when you meet your opponents
3:02 Why? It's no different from Go for the Throat stats-wise (casting cost, colors, effect) and Go for the Throat is considered a staple.
Shoot the Sherrif currently has 1009 creatures that it can't hit (scryfall query -> t:creature (t:assassin or t:mercenary or t:pirate or t:rogue or t:warlock)), 206 of which can be a commander
Go for the Throat currently has 1048 creatures that it can't hit (scryfall query -> t:artifact t:creature), 82 of which can be a commander
So I'm not sure why it "sucks". Sure, it's not a GREAT card, but there isn't anything particularly wrong with it. It hits more stuff than Doom Blade does.
I'd rather have a video about how to deal with a table with 0 accurate treat assesment
Boardwipe Tribal
as soon as I start building my deck - to play right amount and type of answers
Threat assesment starts the second i know who im playing against lol. As in the actual people, not just their commanders
When I’m no longer so new I’m barely learning my own deck?
Look at my table over hating winota with 1 non human on board while the Annabella player has SIXTY 1/1 tokens and he's next in turn
Note that if you play with adults, they explain what cards MIGHT do and volunteer that yes, their enchantment IS the biggest threat on the table. If you don't, you have to rely on your memory of 30 years' worth of cards - good luck with that.
As a stompy players it’s very annoying that people only focus on size in my group. They often make me the target because of my 8/8 instead of the person with 5 more mana than me and 3 card draw engines
Threat assessment starts when you sit down and see what commanders they are playing. Or maybe if you have a guy in your group that always has the strongest decks maybe it starts before that even....
As soon as my commander is out, he dies, and that's fair because if he didn't, I'd win. I've played in several pods where they would feel bad if they removed Endrek, so i had show them why it would've been a proper move.
When you see their commander
I would disagree on the Fusion Elemental vs Ragavan example for the same reasons you mention in the video.
Until you know where people point their threats, they should be weighted as less dangerous. The 1 treasure from Ragavan might be 'soaked up' by the rest of the table. On the other hand, I KNOW that the 6 extra damage from the elemental will impact me and the rest of the game.
If the pod is not a complete durdle fest, then I would take the trade of 6 life vs 1 treasure nearly every time. But of course that is always playgroup and style dependent.
In general I feel that commander players value taking chip damage (and having lifegain in decks) way to low. Love the topic!
Life is a resource, but you still gotta be careful about how you spend it.
when the game starts
I started assessing threats as soon as I came out the womb