Відео

I think there are two big things that hold me back from truly trying cEDH: 1. Two of my favorite colors to play - green and white - are basically non-factors in cEDH. What few decks that run either color - Kinnan, Kenrith, Najeela, Thrasios, et cetera - feel like they only run a small handful of green or white cards and would be vastly improved with the quality of their cards if they were not obligated to run those colors. To use Kinnnan as an example, from what lists I see online the deck would be vastly improved in terms of meaningful win conditions if it swapped access to red or black or went full mono-blue rather than being shackled to green to find a win condition that could win in a timely fashion. Don't even get me started on how much commanders like Yasharn or Sythis have fallen off competitively. 2. The stack interactions that take place in cEDH - which based on the quote you brought up in the video is a huge draw for cEDH - stresses me out something fierce. As someone who has recently identified having a very difficult time playing against Spellslinger-style archtypes, I get really stressed at the kinds of counter-wars that tend to happen frequently at the highest levels of play. I think it mainly has to do with feeling responsible for not being able to stop these strategies no matter what I play and feeling like I wasted people's time by not bringing a faster deck that could keep up. Maybe I am off base in my assessments, but I would be interested to hear if my thoughts are unique to my own experiences or if other cEDH players feel the same way.

The art goes really hard

I just want to play my jank! I do have a list of "feel bad" cards that I won't include in my decks such as Dictate of Erebos or OG Jin Gitaxis.

I just want to play my jank! I do have a list of "feel bad" cards that I won't include in my decks such as Dictate of Erebos or OG Jin Gitaxis.

I think this video misses an important piece. The video is very critical of casual players. There is a large part of the cEDH community that gets almost insulted when you try to explore the meta. If its a deck or even a card they have never seen they often have this, "you think youre smarter then the meta attitude". My favorite part of playing in any format is trying to explore different spaces within the meta. I actually love cEDH but I think it too has major flaws and is prohibitive of creativity.

10:50 i just call them “Ikoria free spells”

As a CEDh player, I would only want the partner mechanic banned.

8:30 Don't add them up! That doesn't make any sense. For an argument to the absurd, it should be clear that "each player discards their hand" isn't a +14, but by the logic of adding it up, it would be. Therefore, you shouldn't add them up. What you SHOULD do is subtract your advantage individually to each opponent's to find the differential between you and them. So in total instead of your#cards - opponents'#cards = advantage, it's your#cards*#opponents - opponents'#cards = advantage. If we did that, we find that for counterspell you get (0, 1, 1), for a -2 while for arcane denial you get (1, 0, 0) for a -1. While it is still a net negative card advantage, it is better than counterspell, AND since you denied the player you're down to, that player has lower expected card quality because you know the card you countered is one less of the card they need in their deck. If there is an archenemy, the your "add them up" idea of card advantage would be more accurate, making counterspell better than arcane denial. Counterspell can also help in political situations, which both act more like an archenemy situation, and the value of screwing over one player in particular is very high. Some other counterpoints. 1. It actually is valuable to hold up counterspells as early as turn 2, to stop turn 2 ramp. "bolt the bird" is a saying for a reason! 2. I don't count my removal as saving my opponents a removal spell. If I assumed that my opponents would remove whatever I did not regardless, I would play 0 removal.

There is one deck that might be the most complicated, the sub game deck. It is a commander deck designed to imitate shahrazad using only legal cards. There is the Turing complete deck but that isn’t commander

I've always thought that casual commander is a convoluted way of roleplaying.

So are we getting a video about vintage sideboards? Because I really want to know lol

I got chased put of cEDH by decks that went out of their way to win at turn 3. I hated having to turn what was supposed to be my dorky lists and having to add in all these anti meta tech cards and non-synergistic answers only to run into the same 3 turn kills anyway. Then to find out it would cost me literally $347 to get the cards my deck would need to keep up, I actually quit the format completely for a bit before runnint into everyone who talks about the enjoyment of the casual side. But i realize I'm just a casual player at the end lol Edit: Finished the rest of the video a second time to digest it better, and I do play at like "level 7/8" with my decks now, right under competitive, but playing some of the better cards like Rhystic Study and Dovin's Veto, so maybe I am still looking at it in a black/white way

Am I the only one who got the AMAZING pun at the end? Also what are everyone's thoughts on Zada storm as a cEDH deck?

Your thesis was very sound. My only critique is your position on proxies. cEDH can thrive without proxies and the format will be better off long term using real cards. Other than that great argument.

Wizards needs to print a cheap mass land, creature and artifact sweeper in order for it to see play in cedh. That used to be Upheaval, and that got banned

How dare you make such a great video and then slander my ellivere at the end of it

The chapters look like they were auto corrected to the wrong words.

The flow of the video is seamless.

The irony of cEDH players being more casual than casual EDH players

Yeah. I like shorikai. But i'm pretty faithful to the vehicle archetype. I kinda just like him because he's the only non creature commander. And he looks cool

2:32 my playgroup plays casual modern and it’s so good. Really worth giving a try. (General guidelines we use are: an agro deck could win by turn 5 if their opponent does nothing and decks use b-tier removal like Mortify). A tibalt deck. (The 2 mana one) is actually not only viable, but genuinely scary in our environment, even when I powergame within these restrictions. It’s wild.

Both card diversity and color diversity would be addressed by a cedh specific banlist. Conquest has the most reasonable banlist I've seen for a commander format

The thing I dislike about EDH is the fact it frowns upon playing actual Magic. It cares about making everyone feel good instead of taking down everyone else. Magic at its core isn't about anything other than winning. The fun comes in how you get to the winning.

I skipped the latter half of the video when he’s trying to sell me on cEDH because he already convinced me in the first half that casual EDH And cEDH are the same format and since I already play casual EDH, then I am already playing cEDH since it’s all EDH.

I still have to disagree that casual and competitive are the same. I do admit that "casual is fun" is extremely loaded and prone to lots of interpretations. People wouldn't play cedh if they didn't have fun doing it! Many of the things you point out that you like about cedh is precisely why I think it's different enough to be differentiated. Lack of Rule 0 conversations. The agreement that anything goes within the rules. Rather than salt, agreement that a play was correct. Placing winning the game as the primary objective. These are all things that either make it competitive or are a result of it being competitive. And these are all things that I don't prefer about this and nearly every other recognized format of Magic. I want to pull back towards Casual EDH, where I can have a complicated board state for the heck of it, where I get to see amazing stupid things happen, where I can see unoptimized theme decks do their thing, etc. If regular edh has a focus on winning, blending current casual and cedh as you describe, then I'd want a split for some other kind of edh, hopefully avoiding loaded terms like "casual" or "for fun". And yeah, when I'm at a pod with a new player running a precon, another player with some jank, and my minotaur draft chaff deck, and the fourth player is silent in the Rule 0 discussion, and brings out a super powerful deck that just curbs stomps us, I know that's not a cedh player, that's just a jerk.

While I agree that logically EDH and CEDH are not different formats, it's still useful to different terms to talk about them, the same way you wouldn't call kitchen table magic (just playing fun decks with whatwver you had around) the same thing as playing legacy. CEDH does have a fundemental rule difference from EDH that changes is dramatically. The lack of rule 0, in playing and building decks only to win. While they aren't truely different formats, i think it's important to recognize in language that they are different in how they are built and played.

Edh is for fun. Whether it be competitive or casual. It's just a lot of people don't really like blowing cash on meta cards, or maybe just dislike the overly blunt nature of competitive. Playing games like overwatch or other games with a competitive mindset has kinda just made me bitter about comp versions of games. But that's my opinion.

My favorite part of cEDH is that the lack of Rule Zero and in-it-to-win-it mentality means I get to be really mean and watch my friends be really mean. Making plays that are the Magic equivalent of kicking a puppy (i.e. flashing in a Bowmasters with a Wheel of Fortune on the stack) is what I live for. Plus, the fact that I can play the new Etali and be able to get the big dino out turn 3 is really satisfying to my inner Timmy.

It wouldn’t be so confusing if everyone these days actually played EDH as a purely casual format. The line between two player cEDH and multiplayer disappeared when everyone and their brother started playing. Also, I’d say that cEDH forgoes the politics you’d find in a casual game that made the format what it was years ago.

I don't like boring magic, that is, a powerlevel where magic cards feel like junk made for draft. They rarely allow to brew interesting interactions. But I don't like the highest power competitive environment either, because it makes a whole lot of interesting interactions too slow to be included into any deck. Most interesting magic, in my opinion, happens in-between "my decks is birds" and "cEDH".

I don't comment often on videos because english isn't my first language, but I think that the meta is usualy the issue with cEDH. I do not like cEDH because I can't play thematic decks. I can't play my Rocco food tribal deck, nor my Elsha deck that want to close the game with Barren Glory or Divine Intervention, nor my monk tribal Archimandrite deck or my Yorak Unfinity Attractions deck and I can go on. The problem with cEDH is that to enjoy the playstyle you have to enjoy the competitive part of the game. Usually casual EDH players enjoy a concept of deck and want to show them to the other players an experience that picked their intrest. Of course that every EDH players have their pet decks, and some groups are more competitive than others and some players have preferences of playstyles but generally the issue is "you brew around the meta or you are out" and if closing the game as soon as possible is the meta, your options are less and less as you go down the rabbit hole. EDH tries to share a experience that doesn't revolves around winning first of all. Of course every player is trying to win but isn't the focus of their deck in most casual EDH groups. Brew around some card, tribe or interaction you like is another way to enjoy a game of EDH and I belive that is the difference between EDH and cEDH. The second one has the winning part of the game as the focus, like every other format in MTG, while casual EDH became a refuge for players that enjoy more other aspects of MTG.

The only reason i would say there is a separation between cEDH and casual EDH is because the same things aren't factored in to how good a deck is. cEDH is more just a more widespread meta that lots of people like to play in, where everything else should be people making a meta together for that group that everyone is happy with.

My favorite part of cedh is that I get to actually play magic. Whenever I play casual commander, I have no idea what's going on because 80% of the cards are things I've never seen. And it's just too overwhelming and I can't think through my decisions and just say "f it." In cedh, because many decks play the same cards, I actually know what's going on, what the threats are, and how I should play accordingly

Commander is really three overlapping formats, distinguished by card selection: * Casual Commander - No: stax, infinite loops, land destruction. Budget-friendly, no proxies. * Pay-to-win Commander - Casual plus pay-to-win cards > $25. Proxies require permission * Competitive EDH (cEDH) - Play-to-win, nothing legal excluded. Proxies taken for granted. Prominent promoters of Pay-to-Win Commander are WotC, online card dealers, and corporate-sponsored UA-camrs.

The insinuation that I just need to be educated about cEDH so they can see how cool it really is, is insulting. You aren't trying to understand the root cause of complaints, rather just addressing the arguments directly. And the bad ones at that. "It's expensive" isn't a concern at all with cEDH since as you stated it's proxy friendly. So what is? You didn't stop to think it's what makes them necessary to proxy that could be the problem? It's not their price. Their price is a result of their rarity and popularity which is a result of its POWER. I have to stop I've typed an essay 4 times I give up. We'll talk more if I find I comment reply notification later.

I think what players find "unfun" about cEDH and where the confusion stems from is that difference in goals and expectations when going into a commander game. Playing 1 cedh deck against 3 casual decks is not fun for the casual decks, and I would guess is probably not much more fun for the cedh player than just drawing test hands. Conversely even with 4 cedh decks if you have players that are inexperienced in the format and the decks they are playing they will also probably not have very much fun playing cedh. I think commander as a format is the most fun when all the players are on roughly the same powerlevel and are all aware of what each other player is trying to do. I know you say separating edh and cedh doesn't work, however commander originated as a casual format where wacky unoptimized decks were played more than streamlined hyper efficient decks. I think this is where the idea of commander being a casual format comes from.

i feel like i have so much to say, i wish i could had been someone to had helped you with the script for this video. However, i am not as knowledgeable on the Cedh scene as i used to and i'm working with old information with educated guesses. First of all, if i hear "proxy friendly" that means someone who brings a "dual land" that's written in sharpie over a basic land should be acceptable. i used "helper cards" as they were cheap, and gave a nice blank field to write on. i mainly got into playing Commander through my LGS (many years ago) and they exclusively gathered to play a "tournament" with prizes on the line. They did not accept the use of any proxies unless you could prove you own an OG WotC copy of the card. Once upon a time, there was a clear delineation between what defined Casual Commander and Competitive Commander play, and it was so identifiable you knew who was most likely in the Competitive play based on their commander choice. In todays times, Wizards of the Coast has been printing cards and reprinting cards such that "casual" commander players are gaining "tools" allowing them to compete with Competitive players such that the difference between the two had to be more specifically defined. The more consistent your deck was, the more competitive it is. And it's difficult to judge such consistency to assign a number to it but possible. K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth and The Gitrog Monster [and please if you want to play Cedh do not play The Gitrog Monster if your learning to play more competitively] are NOT "anti CEDH" commander options, they are known as the most popular competitive commander options. i feel that K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth especially gets the "short end of the stick" because of how popular he is, everyone has a deck with him as commander and i wanna say most of them are terrible piles of cards, but i digress. Thank you for your time reading all this, i really REALLY tried to keep it short but i needed to convey what i want to say. i believe i know really good "introduction to competitive" stuff allowing players to play on a budget but that would require me to learn how to put together a youtube video and do my own stuff. i may get there eventually. But there is still a difference between "competitive play" and "casual play" and every format has both.

No one should be allowed to proxy a whole deck. That’s annoying. Not everyone is proxy friendly. Plus it hurts local game stores .

If I wanted to play a format where anything goes, all archetypes exist and combos are the default way to win, why would I go through the trouble of playing a 100 card singleton multiplayer clown fiesta of a format? Like, legacy exists, it's a really fun and balanced format and you can sideboard and do bo3.

EDH is generally more fun when players have a general understanding of the power level of the decks in the game, so that they can bring a deck of similar power.

You can get any deck you want for $5 at the library. The printer is available. *nods sagely*

Getting my friends into cedh was awesome. As a non-proxy guy I just slowly buy the duals and other pricey stuff I need over time. I mostly play rog-so, talion, krik, zur, urza, and now nadu.

Not to brag but im like 587

FINALLY! Yes!

I feel like 5/10 isn't pretty decent, it's just "fine". Imo pretty decent would be a 6 or a 7 at the most

Anyone else tried jamming in a 'quick' cEDH game, at the end of a game day, and it turns out to be the longest game of the day?

Counterpoint: I want to play high powered commander without fast mana and broken cards like dockside, thoracle, breach, etc. Right now that's basically impossible. There's a big void between "level 7" commander and cEDH. I think that's what peope complain about. Sure, other things would trickle up as the most poweful but maybe not *every* deck would have to run blue because you wouldn't need free counterspells on turn 3 to prevent the combo player from going off.

this reminds me, I need to work on my Hewlett Packard theme deck

i play poison , superfriends Atraxa.... but all my Planeswalkers are the planeswalkers with phyrexian Mana and the whole Deck is Phyrexian Kindred

You're 100% right. Cedh does not exist. What does exist is a bogeyman some players call "Cedh" to blame when they lose to much better decks. But 99.9/100 times when you see those decks they call "Cedh" decks they are laughably not even close to a cedh meta deck. Usually it's a deck that is taking advantage of a more casual tables absolute refusal to run removal or interaction of any kind.