Steering Stabilisation - Do YOU Really Need It?
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- Steering stabilisation is a topic that comes to the forefront from time to time, but never more so than now with the launch of Canyon's Keep It Stable (KIS) system - as well as featuring on production bikes, their factory DH and Enduro race teams have also been spotted trying out custom versions on their race bikes. Doddy decided to take a K.I.S-equipped Canyon Spectral for a spin to see how the system worked for himself, and also explain who might benefit from it and why!
⏱️ Timestamps ⏱️
0:00 - Intro
0:53 - What is K.I.S, and how does it work?
3:08 - The different levels of resistance available
3:41 - Why might we need steering stabilisation?
4:14 - How geometry affects how your bike steers
6:45 - Riding with K.I.S turned off
7:18 - Riding with K.I.S at full resistance
9:28 - More back-to-back testing
11:08 - Doddy's testing notes
12:52 - Summary
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Doddy. Steering damping has been on my mind for a couple of years. I am an adaptive athlete and safe handling of the bike is my primary focus. Resisting the flop on rising or dipping corners seems like something anyone could benefit from, so I would like to try this out. Some riders won’t be interested for themselves, but bike engineers experimenting with low cost “helpers” like this should appeal to anyone who wants more people to safely enjoy mountain biking.
This isn't damping
i thought you said daddy icl
I really love this idea, plus it has the added bonus of keeping your bars still when you're lifting the bike or fixing/checking something on your bike without the bars swinging around trying to smack you in the head. I'd have thought the minimum setting would've helped riding no handed, it also would be nice if it was adjustable on the fly tool free.
Interesting tech. I think external unit connected with your stem would be way simpler and I have a pretty easy sollution to retrofit it I think. Ability to adjust it on the fly would be beneficial too. Also quite easy to do actually.
I'll think of a DIY solution!
Old bikes had something called deflopinator/steering damper that's basically this but more primitive and simpler. The bikes back then had upright steering angle that didn't self-stabilize as well. Now with slacker head tube angles, it became less common.
If it was adjustable by hand it would be much better. Something similar to turning the clicks on your compression and rebound so you can adjust the system on the fly for the trails and riding your doing
I like the people who watch a channel about bike tech and complain about new bike tech.
I get the sense that it's like when you change gearing or put on oval chainrings, or new bits. It feels different and there's a placebo feeling of "better.". After that fades, you're the same rider.
I feel like this is something that in 20 years we will look back on and the next generation of Doddy will remember as being one of those quirky things that quickly fell out of fashion.
Always love the music choice! Keep it up!!
Excellent overview and relevant discussion of an old school tech reimagined.
Next will be a pressure based system, just like forks.
With Stanchions, adjustable pressure, and then add tokens
😂
I've never ridden it for the past 30 years... Now that I seen it , I think I need it
Doddy's one of my favourite presenters.
Loved the review and would love a follow up in a few weeks or months. I do think this definitely has a place and it's come to stay, bu there's no reason why it should be so expensive.
Good filming, Josh. 👍👍👍
Thanks for a really good review.
Cool idea with this. Would be interested to see a part two with some timed runs as comparison.
Great one. Sam P had a similar video today about it and was pretty blown away by it. I'm definitely curious as I'm based in central Texas where it's loose, dusty, and chunky...looks interesting!
I tied a bungee cord to connect the fork crown to the downtube-toptube junction and feel that the stabilisation is helpful. But, of course, the adjusting is not as easy. On top of the steering stabilisation, it prevent the handlebar going 180 degree
Part of me is kinda glad we have these wacky things, flippy brake gear levers, DCD, full suspensions, disc brakes, progressive geometry, dropper post.. Then part of me wants to ride a fully rigid 90s XC bike and forget about it all.
Doddy.....this seems like a great idea....especially as you said when it's on full assist! I really wish it could adapted to different frame sets...I would not care if it was on the outside of the frame...
I had an adjustable Ohlins hydraulic steering damper on my WRF 450 20 years ago - great device for fast trail riding... I'm surprised they have not made the same thing for MTB bikes... they do nice suspension stuff...
yeah, the ohlins or scotts dampers are fantastic on dirt bikes. I don't see much benefit from this centering device. It doesn't seem to slow down sudden movements caused by terrain.
I'd love to see follow up video!
It actually interesting me, that KIS system. I thought it was just another gimmick. I would love to hear more about it, I am looking forward to another video about it. I wonder if you are doing a longer ride with long ruff descents, if it would help with the fatigue factor, not having to wrestle the bike as much, it would be interesting to find out. Thanks Doddy for video.
Sweet. Another canyon commercial. GCBN Global Canyon Bike Network
I didn't expect that you'd experience those sort of changes. To be honest, I had reservations that perhaps it would detract more than benefit. It seems that I am wrong about what it takes away from the rider. Now we need a retro fitment available for bikes without it already incorporated. I do hope they make it available as an aftermarket product. If so I'll try it - I need all the help I can get with jank.
Please try it on a steep tight downhill switchback. That's where I struggle the most with steering flop.
Odyssey made something like this in the late 80s/early 90s. It looked like a piston connected between your bike and bars (I think). Couldn’t find any images online, but I remember this well. With my quick steering 2009 Fisher Superfly(69.9 degree head angle), I have always wondered if it would make a difference. Odyssey also made a stem with a cam on it to increase cable pull and some reverse rake bars because…80s.
2009 Fisher Superfly was my dream bike back then, I had a 26" 2009 GF Wahoo instead
That was a cool bike as well@@lexx348. For me I was deciding between the 26" full suspension or the 29" hardtail. I figured I'd give this radical new wheel size a try. Guess I chose well as I'm still riding it!
This would have to come as an external thing that can be mounted on any frame, and maybe work with special spacers under the stem.
What happens when the springs weaken or snap? Feels like a sponsored video to me.
100% a sponsored video. This keeps getting pushed by canyon and no one wants or needs it. But they keep throwing it in our faces because they invested a lot of money in it.
Aren't they channel sponsored by canyon if so then every video is sponsored by canyon
Special headset or fork steer tube? Special frame for sure. Just another complication to have to deal with when you want do simple maintenance tasks or if it breaks like through-stem cable touting.
Hi Doddy, you think this is a good way to have a XC bike with a slacker head angle?
I’m just waiting to buy the 12sp wireless gearbox + belt driven steering stabilized Cannondale Jekyll with wireless dropper, and a universal Derailer hanger
Keep it stupid and simple (KISS) is something the bike industry forgets sometimes, or all the time.
Good video. Now let’s get Pilgrim on one of these
Those workout resistance bands come it different levels of resistance, you could wrap one around the seattube and Hook each end over the bars, they come in different colours too so you can colour match with the bike 😂
Probably helps stop my bike falling over when I lean it on the wall at Tesco.
This is definitely a bit different than the cane creek viscoset, as this is self centering and the visco is essentially a damper. I’d love to ride the two and see what the differences are.
can i get this externally mounted for any bike?
if so, where can i buy it
Hmm, could be good. I got a feeling it won't become common build equipment. The add on version maybe more of a seller
Does anyone know what fork was on todays episode as a main ride? Was it Fox 36 Performance (with fast/slow rebound adjustment)? I have same fork but without F/S rebound and I don't think mine works as well as his on small hits :( Tried low pressure, high pressure, but not getting the feel I'd expect from it on small choppy stuff like riding on a field of grass e.g. feels super rattly :(
Doesnt the adjustment slot in the top tube weaken it structurally?
It probably has extra layers of carbon around the opening to compensate.
I guess another factor would be is the slot formed in the moulding process or cut into the finished frame afterwards. Another "gimmick".
Can it be completely removed and will parts be available for rebuilds?
what is that gorpo mount?
Stabilizers and damping on the steering have been used for quite some time on the motorcycle world, partucularly in road racing motorcycles. There is definite value for them. There are Manu other technologies from the moto world that have jumped and caught on in the bike industry, so this one is no surprise. Will it stay or will it just be a fad? We shall see....
This is not a damper, its a can actuated spring. Dampers are speed sensitive and don't return to center, springs are a permanent resistance
Honestly, having the largest handlebar I could find, a renthal, makes it extremely hard to climb. If that could keep me stable going uphill, I would be interested.
The issue I see here is, it does not seem to fit every bike frame.
I ride qith one arm and think this might benefit me
I ride my bike perfectly fine without one so clearly you don’t “need” it
It hadn’t occurred to me prior that the system pulls the frame in relation to the bar position. I’d been thinking of it more like a damper. I can see how the pull would definitely be beneficial in the situations Doddy describes. It would be fascinating to try this setup with adjustable head angle and rake.
Marketing unstoppable
It needs high and low speed compression and rebound damping :)
Gentlemen, this is no humbug!
Hmm all the comments so far are negative, but it looked good t me. Aint gona buy one jus yet, but as it got doddy excited there, it must be that its a good thing.
It sure ain't hard to tell GMBN is supported by Canyon eh. I think I'll save my money for uplift laps instead
These things have been making the rounds on UA-cam. I’m guessing a whole bunch of people are being paid to make these hidden advertisements.
You could make one with an elastic band. Super cheap
There is a well-known programming principle called KISS. It stands for: keep it simple, stupid. And the KIS is looks like a violation of the KISS 🥴
Doesn't that just compensate for the lack of design in the existing geometry?
These things have been around on touring bikes for decades
Hopey Steering Damper… Left the building 20 years ago….😅
KISS
While there're obviously advantages to this tech and a market for it, I prefer to keep my bike as simple as possible. And you know... just rely on my bike handling skills more.
Do you ride a full rigid with solid tyres then ?
All well and good until I get tired.
i have been doing a crude version of this the a luggage strap since the 90's. this is much nicer i think
I'm waiting to buy a new bike until all of the cables are completely hidden for their entire length, including that ugly front brake cable as it needs to go right through the fork legs and out the front axle. Also, I need pedaling stabilizers on my cranks and adaptive radar based cruise control so I can safely follow my ridding buddies without a care in the world... Come on bike industry, you can do it!
More stuff to go wrong, more weight and another thing to fix
or a look at the past, had one that was hydraulic decades ago.
Sounds like the same as a pitted headset bearing to me😂
You can literally make this at home from hardware store parts at least an external version…..super easy
Try it with 500mm bars.
No need.. extra expense..
Can't wait for self steering electric bikes....
Interesting tech, although in my experience wheel flop and understeer are a result of unbalanced suspension settings or offset/stem lengths.
I just wish Syntace would go back to making stuff like the Megaforce again, definitely the best stem I’ve ever owned.
Will it sell more bikes is the question. 🤔
I just threw my 2YO carbon fiber full suspension in the garbage in anticipation of a steering-stabilized bike.
K.I..S cost 500€ extra . I don’t know if it’s worth that kind of money . I love my Spectral cf8 as is without it.
Sounds like buyer's remorse to me 🤔🤔🤔
No
I smell a lot of fiddling from the setup fiddlers, dropper posts caught on because they remove some fiddling, that adds some.
What it's about and who it's for?
Ummm..it's bout those that can't steer?
😮
Looks like a snake-oil product to me; the self-righting force from the rake and trail is massively stronger than this. You have a steering damper on a motorbike, but this isn't that, and bikes are too light to need them.
All those angles and you have your seat slammed forward 🤣
I'd rather not spend my life savings on a bike with a front wheel stabilizer when I can stabilize it with my hands.
Exactly. Canyon out here selling expensive solutions to problems that don't exist
Cars have it and I think it is a good thing
But its called caster and it gets stronger the more force you put on the suspension
Wow just wow they will try everything to sell you something. 😮
Reverse cameras are coming next
@jamesmcgowen1769 your funny that really made me laugh you made my day James hello from West Belfast to you and family 💯☘️👍🏻🫡💪🙏👋
This happens with almost every high priced product which experiences a phase of extraordinary sales figures while being made by countless competing manufacturers. Just look at smartphones or tablet computers. The manufacturers want their peticular product to stick out and at the same time want to find out how much costumers are willing to pay for what at the end of the day. In this process, they are ready to try it out EVERY idea concievable, throw it against the wall and see what sticks. From rather silly ideas like this, to more promising ones like ABS braking for E-bike front wheels. Expect the majority of these things to not catch on and disappear shortly after. But i believe ABS will be among the very few ideas that will indeed stick to the wall in the end. Simply because of the obvious crash avoidance benefit. Also for conventional MTBs , now that battery powered bike components like wireless shifting seem to slowly overcome the initial sceptisism, the first ABS system for normal MTBs is just a question of time.
@Celeon999A well I just bought a new road bike a Bianchi it has blu tooth shifting and it's fantastic just saying that it 💯☘️👍🏻🫡💪🙏👋
@@kaodhanhouston2481 Greetings to West Belfast from Sydney! I’m glad I could raise a laugh for someone 🤣
Upcoming 2026 product suspension dropper post.
Bike companies are just coming up with more and more ways of making bikes more and more expensive. How on earth did we ride our bikes before the steering had dampening springs?
Get in the gym and beef up the shoulders. Those are your own KIS system.
Yep… one should put into consideration how much it costs, how much maintenance it requires…and how much really the benefit is.
No matter how strong or agile your arms are you can't make the back end of the bike rotate with the bars alone.
With kis as you steer you are putting force into the rear tyres side wall and vice versa
@@janeblogs324 so you think it’s the future ? Or rather a gimmick to bring something new for the sake of bringing something new and what nobody had asked for ??… a typical behavior with products already fully developed.
I do 400 pushups every week. Y'all need to man up.
@@dystopiaisutopia only…? I do 4.000 a week
i just wanna buy new tyre
Someone page Elon let's just skip to self riding bikes.
No.
Do you have twigs for arms? If NO, then you don't need it
1rst 😅😅
Lol strap and springs, 1940s style. That looks primitive and unreliable. A steering damper should be an oil filled reservoir with a steering operated plunger or paddle. Yes they work, they sometimes improve a bike beyond belief. Though theyre predominantly used as an aftermarket extra on bikes that come from the factory a little poor in the handling department or when a bike is being modified for a purpose for which it wasnt intended. For a mountain bike manufacturer to install one from the factory might backfire. Is that saying something about the handling of their bikes without one?
Hack or Bodge?🤔
My bike is equipped with the K.I.S.S. system …
Keep It Simple Stupid
Next is brake assist and self riding bikes. This is too much.
Can’t ride with no hands, that’s a no go 👎🏼😂
lets face it, this is only really good if you are pro racer with the ideal line choice and trying to shave seconds off to help you win, normal rider, pointless
Actually it may benefit a weaker rider at higher speeds in a rough terrain.
Nice sales pitch,wonder how much they paid GMBN 🤔🙄
Also I don’t think you guys understand oversteer/understeer 🤔
Probably good idea when your teaching your kids how to ride a bike. If your an adult that needs this then maybe cycling aint for you 😂
Tell that to Troy Brosnan...
useless... nothing else
In a word......... no!
Canyon really makes some ridiculous bikes.