Coming up with only 5 moves from these games was actually so hard. Thanks for having me on, and I hope everybody enjoyed the ridiculousness of these old games we loved.
Absolutely. You could have filled this entire list from just Injustice alone. Hell, you probably could have filled this entire list from just one character in Injustice.
One of the most unfair attacks in fighting games is when you all go for hotpot after a tournament, and you accidentally burn your mouth because your first bite was too _temperature_ hot, and then everyone clowns on you and says that you can’t handle spicy food. It’s not fair!! They don’t understand what happened!!!
Sajam/LK is such a good combo for this kind of video, since you both kinda cover the opposite ends of the fighting game spectrum. Now we just need a smash player and the trifecta is complete.
@@65rytg MK’s best move was actually teleport - for a short time. Because he could stall infinitely by simply tapping a button. But then that got limited to a few seconds.
Sajam: pulls from multiple games by developers around the world LK: "Good ol' ArcSys, nothing beats that!" ArcSys was fucking nefarious back in the day, I stg
Aerial Lows are a crime LOL. It's funny because Blazblue was the first fighter I ever tried to seriously learn and didn't realize it's notorious for it's difficulty.
@@Upsetkiller456 It was designed to be an easier game for its time, pretty sure. I think it just had a lot of stuff that was unintentionally hard to fight against or hard to learn.
fun fact related to that arakune air low thing: Peacock in Skullgirls had the same thing as her jump MK in early builds. It tracked better, too. imagine dealing with a mid air low whilst also dealing with Peacock zoning and dodging assists, knowing any stray conversion loses you 30-50% at best, and tod at worst if theyve got the sauce
@@pyromaniacforhire I dunno if it even made it to launch. I know it was there in pre release vids off the top of my head. I got into SG when it came out on pc, wasnt there for console launch
@@WaluTime One our roommates back in uni had it back in the day when it first dropped, and we had gotten in on the beta program thing not long after (on PC).....Peacock and Cerebella were fricking nightmares.
Shout outs to the folks that learned to play fighting games with these games. Y'all learned to safe jump safe launching DPs in the snow, uphill both ways.
Dormammu's Rose Garden, on launch, would still be active on the ground even after Dormammu got hit with a CINEMATIC LVL3! you would have to block the garden after the cutscene was over, and Dormammu had time to wake up and mix you up! don't know how people thought that was okay
Thankfully that move got completely murdered. There are still Dormammu players in MVC:I, but none of them use it anymore. It was certainly ridiculous in the game's early life though.
I'm sorry, such a thing as an aerial low exists?! Yeah I think LK's perspective of fighting game moves that break conventions is pretty spot on when you're talking about broken moves. At least we're in an era where this stuff can get patched out...to a degree, apparently. I can't believe Trident Rush is that good in BOTH games...
I wanna give a shoutout to Rev1 1.0 Johnny Mist Finer. Not only did it have the unblockable loops that he could do, and did a ton of damage, helped him convert etc etc (all of which still exist in the game), but it also gave him FIVE TIMES the meter on hit that it does now, funding every part of his gameplan 5 times better, including the unblockable loops. It was fuckin insane, and still is
For me, I think one of the most broken moves I've ever seen was release MKX Quan Chi Trance. For those who are not aware, the Trance was a mid that would keep the opponent standing, they walk slowly towards you for like one second and cannot do anything. It's basically intended to be a combo extender so you would do basic string > trance > basic string > knockdown for like 30-35%. The problem is one of his variations called Summoner calls in a Bat. The bat can be controlled once by Quan Chi to fly and hit the opponent as a mid, a projectile, or a low. Now for the broken part. During early MKX, the trance was so long lasting, Quan Chi could summon the bat, AND setup a hard to blockable every time. So, every time you get hit, you get hit by trance, Quan Chi summons the bat, he sends the bat as a low while he overheads you which could hit low first or overhead first and no matter which hits, he will immediately trance you again and summon another bat over and over until you get lucky and block it.
CT was my first fighting game I owned for myself and actually tried to learn legitimately, and I don't think I'll ever recover from Arakune's jumping low. 11 year old me played "the floor is lava" with funny fast cat lady because I didn't want to deal with it. Nu and Carl taught me patience and how to take a loss, but Arakune taught me the fear of god
Yoooo a 45 min collab with Sajam? You’re spoiling us 😌 Also, I love hearing people complain about characters/moves (especially people who usually don’t complain) so I’d love to see this series keep going
I forgot about rose garden since it got nerfed so hard it barely gets used. Not to mention, that move is a lot more insane than I remembered. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite was lucky to get good patches on the truly broken stuff before support died. Without that, the competitive scene probably would not have lasted a year.
You know it’s a really shame infinite died out as quick as it did because despite its shortcomings the gameplay itself is actually hella fun. I get why a lot of people don’t like it and I know the roster was weak but I still enjoyed it. It didn’t fail sales wise as bad as people claim either, it sold over a million copies which is pretty good for a fighting game so hopefully we get another MVC someday
@@jeremyroberts8822The problem is the ceiling. It’s one of those games that’s not supportive of a new player base. Not cause the community is shit the community is great it’s just the learning curve of the game itself is steep. My very first MvC online match was me getting 100-0’d three characters in a row off one hit confirm. I by no means am new to fighting games I play everything from Smash to Tekken at a pretty high level and still ended up getting my shit ran
As sajam was explaining superman all I could think was: "So he's a dbfz character" forward advancing strings that's cancellable into plus frames, or at least safe, but if that advancing string hits 😨
Worth noting that Dorm’s rose garden got HUGELY nerfed. He has noticibly longer recovery and the duration is a bit over half of what it was on vanilla. It’s still a great move cause even if he didn’t have time to run mix, it’s a tag fighter so it’s just lockdown for your other guy. Dorm’s pretty solidly top 5 still. But this is honestly missing 2 major aspects of why it was broken. First off Vanilla reality stone basically covered you and meant you could set this up for free. But second, the big big one, it now goes away if dorm is hit. I can’t believe this wasn’t mentioned. Even if you escaped you still had to hold it, even if Dorm just set down the controller and you had a perfect angle on your jump, the majority of characters could not punish without just getting hit by carpet and giving Dorm a free combo. You’d straight up see people using it like an armor’d anti air, and taking the hit as you cast to bait them in.
Before superman, it was F3 Johnny Cage, same kind of situations almost, confirming 8frame advancing mid into full combo ending in nutpunch standing reset right back into the pressure.
I wonder if platform fighter moves will show up in this series. Smash 4 Witch Time and Limit Charge, or something from Brawl Meta Knight's kit come to mind. And Shine, of course.
Bayonetta side b was also what made her broken. But since so many of these moves in the video were changed after a patch, I bet they would talk about things like Ultimate 1.0, which I saw a video on yesterday.
That would be a fun bit of conversation. One of the shines of course, maybe Falco Dair, Shulk’s Monado arts, Puff Bair, and could be fun if we saw some stuff from other platform fighters. Like Wrastor’s slipstream in Rivals or some stuff from Multiversus.
Aside from Neutral B, there isn't really any single move in Meta Knight's kit that is broken and even then, you could argue that it doesn't stand out that much from his kit. The problem is that most of his moveset is godly AND most characters in the game are garbage, either due to sucking on their own (Ivysaur) or being screwed over by awful core gameplay (Captain Falcon).
Idk how this was recorded, but Sajam is mixed WAY lower than LK and I have to keep adjusting my volume so I can hear hear him, then LK blows out my speakers
What about Lab Coat's 1 bar, damn near unreactable, grab that reduces your damage output by 20%? And pre "nerfed" where it was frame one invincible, unpunishable, comboed, hit otg, hit in block stun, and pulled you out the corner by a pixel to super into 21's level 3 50/50?
Hidden Missiles needs to be in this series if it isn't already. That move does everything. EVERYTHING. Also, Azwel's low-axe grab. I don't know the input (2A+B I think?), but Azwel as a whole definitely can get some entries on this list. Which makes sense considering he's the successor to Algol. Speaking of Algol, dude has multiple GOOD projectiles in freaking Soul Calibur of all games. SC4 Algol was a nightmare. And while I'm still on the SC train, SC4 Hilde, just the entire character in general for being able to ring out basically anyone from basically anywhere on basically every map. And finally, the one that annoyed me the most playing casually, SC6 Seong-Mina's insane lightning poke. Absolutely degenerate, insanely braindead, absolutely obliterates some matchups all on its own.
Aerial lows are fun. I play Sakura in Fate/UC and her 214C is a low regardless of if she uses it on the ground or in the air. (It's also negative edge)
20:00 UI goku 5L wasn't just easy to use though, it was very flexible! You could beat out most jump ins, normals, sometimes even vanishes! The massive hitbox, good active frames for fast startup, and his kit's overall ease of converting into a combo off it... that thing was horrifying.
I would also add: Tekken 1 King's DF1. This move is a 14 frame active mid that is +7 on hit(the quickest move you have in this game is 8 frame) and on block guess the frames... It's +93. Yup. really. You literally have forever to do whatever you want after getting this move blocked. Combos easily do 70% with like 3 hits, and with some practice, you can death combo them easily. This was an old game, but this move was... *phew* something else.
This is all cute, but the most powerful thing in any fighting game ever is Zappa's sword ghost summon from Guilty Gear Accent Core +R. That thing is INSANE. It's a floating hitbox that can disassociate from Zappa, effectively becoming a lingering "projectile"(it's not one so anti-projectile moves can't stop it), it doesn't go away until Zappa gets hit, and Zappa can 50/50 from any point on the screen in multiple ways into conversions for very high damage with no risk whatsoever. He can move it forward with attacks or call it back with different attacks and even his DP, which effectively becomes a fullscreen DP with no counterplay when the sword is away. Zappa can manage the sword so it stays forever on you, if you get put in the corner by this you effectively lose. Here's a glimpse of what he can do : ua-cam.com/video/5z5i6kiMhHc/v-deo.html
I honestly feel like what Kesuke does with Testament in +r is leagues above sword. Also some match ups actually prefer Zappa to have sword instead of dog or triplets
Idk... it's hard dealing with it at first, but it's easy to counterplay it with long enough pokes or reversals, or even just projectiles. The main thing is to focus on targeting Zappa when the sword is out and then go on the offensive when there's an opening in his strings... of course some characters are better at this than others, but it's FAR from unfair.
I paused the vid to say this but "no one likes arakune but arakune players" is a lie, Rachel players love arakune players cause that match up is straight up bullying.
Ok, 2 things I wish to say and to a degree, vent about. 1. Mortal kombat 9 Johnny Cage forward three should have been in this, free chip damage, and full combo is plus on block. But most of all, Every single time he used it, the opponent had to deal with random frame data, Johnny could be either neutral or plus on block, with no way to know, you have to guess every time he uses it. In short, it’s a combo starter and a frame trap in a single package. 2. I wish to give an honorable mention for injustice 1, just because it’s less iconic than Superman’s combo. Doomsday’s earth shake. This move is the most annoying move ever, in any game to deal with (not the most broken, but still). It is a safe on block overhead + low, meaning that every time he used it, you had to block high then low, if you don’t he knocked you down. And if he did knock you down he could just use it again and you just are forced to block a 50/50, he either uses it normally and you get overhead + low, or he delays it and you just get the low. He also had setups for this annoying situation and a counter in case you wanted to use a wake up to stop him. Thank you for reading, and have a great day
I saw the name of this video and thought “man injustice 1 doomsday slam will definitely make the list” then I saw injustice 1 and thought I was right. Superman punch was probably better overall but goddam did doomsday slam make me think it was “unfair”.
this vid was great and weird at the same time. Sajams whole thing in insisting every character has answer to every situation in every game no matter what. And then to see him finally admit there ARE broken characters in fighting games is wild
You talking about Michiru 5a Makes me think of Them's Fightin' Herds Season 1 Oleander 5A, where like... in TFH, it's universal, EVERYBODY'S 5A is frame 5, and Oleander's was completely disjointed and huge because it'd smack you with the book. you basically couldn't challenge Oleander at round start because she could reach you with 5A and you had to respect it. she could stagger it for looping pressure or it made for an excellent wakeup option because attempting to meaty her could result in her doing her 22D teleport and waking up invincible, but 5A was faster than most things characters could do after seeing her wake up normally. 5A was also gigantic enough to cover people's tech roll on wake-up and could challenge SO many buttons because of the disjoint.
It used to be even more disjointed than it is now? Goddamn, I didn’t know her 5A was even more privileged than current. Then again if old tfh is on the menu Ole’s J2C might need to be mentioned.
@@Yee-Haw_Bird yeah, it used to not move her forward, but also like.. she wouldn't extend her hurtbox at all. the entirety of the book was just a big ol' hitbox she'd put out at frame 5 and some characters just had to hold it.
No MK9 or UMK3 Kabal's TK Air Blast. A fast traveling, fast recovery projectile that hit about the head of the character wich make it imposible to jump and neuther half of both roster in each game. If you can't combat this thing the matchup become basically 9-1. Kabal is top 1 in both game because of this
The character is banned, but UMK3 Noob Saibot's ghost ball would fit the bill. A projectile that, on hit, inflicts a state where you can't block or attack for several seconds. A move he gets off any combo starter, and can be timed to be unblockable on wakeup meaning he loops it.
“Yeah, IJ1 Superman has a forward 4, 2, 3 combo that hits mid and punishes backs, that’s plus distance, that explodes unscaled damage into a free 20 OTG, with plus unblock.” Bro, what? I need a fucking master’s degree to figure out a single sentence this man says.
Better example: Tekken 1 King df1 is +93 on block, inflicting a stagger state for free followups. You literally are better off just never blocking because he can jail into it and getting an optimal launch punish.
Ivan Ooze from Mighty Morphin' Power Range The fighting edition could pretty much take every spot in this whole video. He's a playable hidden boss character akin to Akuma in SFII Turbo but broken beyond measure. Once you've seen what he can do, every other fighting game character (Jo jo bird, Brawl Meta Knight, Launch Maya, etc.) all looks tame in comparison. I hope you or Sajam look him up one day.
He's pretty notorious, the community has looked into him alot already, and I think they're talking about competitive play. Ooze is a crazy character tho
@@yureiotakughost9464 I would be lying to you if I said Petshop could even win a round against a competent Ooze. He's a 10-0 matchup against everybody else in the game. It's that unfair.
@@yureiotakughost9464 he is basically just better petshop, imagine if petshop could summon Soul Satellite instead of an icicle to get out of block pressure. except he can do it while hes being hit and combo break for free and kill you
Played Arakune, played Dormammu, played team Tatsunical until zBuddy came out in DBFZ... Still think I feel worse about Doomsday in IGAU honestly, d1 shakey shakey
Liked the video globally, couple of things that you're probably aware that could be better: - You talking in big on the screen with a Sajam picture is uncanny, having video would have been better -- Especially as you are the only thing MOVING on screen when Sajam talks we see you looking here and there and it's weird - Rythm tone and life. The video is relatively slow paced and use an even tone, but it feels a bit dead, I don't mean to you being hyper hyped over nothing, but it's really tame, need a bit of excitement here and there. You don't zone always on the same timings, it's the same dunno. - Audio mix difference between you and sajam doesn't help, I think it makes your parts even more dull in this aspect ? Like I really like you as you are in solo videos, but here it feels jarring because the sound is SO even, whereas Sajam has more range, emphases, the mic settings etc are more dynamic. You sound overly compressed and equalized. - Not having the game audios (I understand it can be extremly complicated) compounds this flat aspect, in the KI part it is present and I would have it liked to be 3dB or so louder - To me, your content is relatively podcasty, so sound is really important, and more than that, cohesiveness in the sound - Regarding the music it's so low that it just makes it a barely there background noise, I'd tune it up a notch? I rarely post comment, but I really like your content overall, thanks for the hard work !
at least kune's jD make sense as an aerial low, it's dirty but kinda makes sense. And arc sys isnt foreign to animations not matching what's happening, notably Faust's 2K looking like a jank overhead and A LOT of Dust (before xrd added the red glow too)
Even when I was inept at Injustice 2, watching Honeybee at Evo that year was so exciting, only to end with that bullshit. Trident Rush genuinely made me hate Aquaman as a character and Dragon as a player.
Coming up with only 5 moves from these games was actually so hard. Thanks for having me on, and I hope everybody enjoyed the ridiculousness of these old games we loved.
Absolutely. You could have filled this entire list from just Injustice alone. Hell, you probably could have filled this entire list from just one character in Injustice.
Goat activities 🙏🏾
👍
would you say it was harder than talking without moving any face muscle for the whole video?
LK + Sajam is something I wanna see more of. Y'all are my two favorite fighting game creators.
IJ1 was definitely one of the games of all time
Are you a fellow enthusiast?
@@SupermanSajam I dabble
I definitely believe the same people that made mk9 made injustice 1
@@danielclark653
boy do I have news for you
"Fuck You For Not Zoning: The Video Game"
Sajam talking about Maya’s dagger toss was straight “But wait, there’s more!” energy
It was actually hilarious, he says so many things and then goes 'but that's not why it's broken' like bruh wtf
"This move crashed the economy in 2008 and then caused the covid pandemic in 2020, but THATS NOT WHAT MAKES IT BROKEN"
Move stole my wife my kids my knees my kidneys and my liver, but that's not what makes it broken
Sajam is so good at talking about fighting games he doesnt even need to move his mouth
Damn he's good.
Damn he's a still image.
He's so passionate about the topic he forgot to blink throughout the whole video
@@vaderwalks transcend humanity, become image.
Struggling vtuber energy
One of the most unfair attacks in fighting games is when you all go for hotpot after a tournament, and you accidentally burn your mouth because your first bite was too _temperature_ hot, and then everyone clowns on you and says that you can’t handle spicy food. It’s not fair!! They don’t understand what happened!!!
🤣
real
So oddly specific 😂
That's what happens when your language doesn't differentiate between spicy and temperature hot :D
That's why you always have to take your time with spicy noodles. Also cold water and bread. Also sweet things
Sajam/LK is such a good combo for this kind of video, since you both kinda cover the opposite ends of the fighting game spectrum. Now we just need a smash player and the trifecta is complete.
I Wonder what that list would look like, s64 Kirby upsmash, brawl MK tornado, smash 4 dk cargo throw, melee shine, ult kazuya EWGF?
@@65rytg I think Waft might be in there too, somewhere... but honestly Shine is legendary for a reason.
@@65rytg 64 Kirby uptilt absolutely... my lord. Steve block too maybe?
@@kevingriffith6011 Waft pre-patched was ridiculous. You have to work for waft confirms now.
@@65rytg MK’s best move was actually teleport - for a short time. Because he could stall infinitely by simply tapping a button. But then that got limited to a few seconds.
Sajam: pulls from multiple games by developers around the world
LK: "Good ol' ArcSys, nothing beats that!"
ArcSys was fucking nefarious back in the day, I stg
Aerial Lows are a crime LOL. It's funny because Blazblue was the first fighter I ever tried to seriously learn and didn't realize it's notorious for it's difficulty.
@@Upsetkiller456 also it came out around SF4 era so SF players called it a baby game lol
@@Upsetkiller456 It was designed to be an easier game for its time, pretty sure. I think it just had a lot of stuff that was unintentionally hard to fight against or hard to learn.
@@sigurdtheblue The best laid plans of mice and men...
Honestly surprised Ribcage or pre-nerf Nine 5B wasn't selected.
Y'all already know where to find lord Sajam but
twitter.com/Sajam
Twitch.tv/Sajam
UA-cam.com/@supermansajam
fun fact related to that arakune air low thing: Peacock in Skullgirls had the same thing as her jump MK in early builds. It tracked better, too. imagine dealing with a mid air low whilst also dealing with Peacock zoning and dodging assists, knowing any stray conversion loses you 30-50% at best, and tod at worst if theyve got the sauce
Someone in old Lab Zero be fucking EVIL for coming up with that character
WTF?! THAT'S why we used to die so fucking fast to her back then?!!!
@@pyromaniacforhire I dunno if it even made it to launch. I know it was there in pre release vids off the top of my head. I got into SG when it came out on pc, wasnt there for console launch
@@WaluTime One our roommates back in uni had it back in the day when it first dropped, and we had gotten in on the beta program thing not long after (on PC).....Peacock and Cerebella were fricking nightmares.
Shout outs to the folks that learned to play fighting games with these games. Y'all learned to safe jump safe launching DPs in the snow, uphill both ways.
Dormammu's Rose Garden, on launch, would still be active on the ground even after Dormammu got hit with a CINEMATIC LVL3! you would have to block the garden after the cutscene was over, and Dormammu had time to wake up and mix you up! don't know how people thought that was okay
Thankfully that move got completely murdered. There are still Dormammu players in MVC:I, but none of them use it anymore. It was certainly ridiculous in the game's early life though.
Honestly thought this would be called attacks people STRONGLY dislike
I strongly dislike your tone ;-)
It's these videos that he saves strong words like "unfair" and "hate" for
@@DoggyP00 iirc, the reason that videos are titled "STRONGLY DISLIKE" is because the algorithm doesn't like the word hate.
@@Darkscoper Yes, I don't remember which video he said that in though.
16:32 - *"Mitsuru has done physical things to my body"*
yo same tho
how can sajam stay with the same face without blinking for so much time, this guy is a legend
I'm sorry, such a thing as an aerial low exists?! Yeah I think LK's perspective of fighting game moves that break conventions is pretty spot on when you're talking about broken moves. At least we're in an era where this stuff can get patched out...to a degree, apparently. I can't believe Trident Rush is that good in BOTH games...
I wanna give a shoutout to Rev1 1.0 Johnny Mist Finer. Not only did it have the unblockable loops that he could do, and did a ton of damage, helped him convert etc etc (all of which still exist in the game), but it also gave him FIVE TIMES the meter on hit that it does now, funding every part of his gameplan 5 times better, including the unblockable loops. It was fuckin insane, and still is
Since rollback got added the Johnny mains have been unleashed to the public
Mitsuru doing active damage to LK in real life is the universe trying to punish an unwholesome action
There was that one person who competed in a P4A tournament with a two button stick with Mitsuru.
For me, I think one of the most broken moves I've ever seen was release MKX Quan Chi Trance. For those who are not aware, the Trance was a mid that would keep the opponent standing, they walk slowly towards you for like one second and cannot do anything. It's basically intended to be a combo extender so you would do basic string > trance > basic string > knockdown for like 30-35%. The problem is one of his variations called Summoner calls in a Bat. The bat can be controlled once by Quan Chi to fly and hit the opponent as a mid, a projectile, or a low.
Now for the broken part. During early MKX, the trance was so long lasting, Quan Chi could summon the bat, AND setup a hard to blockable every time. So, every time you get hit, you get hit by trance, Quan Chi summons the bat, he sends the bat as a low while he overheads you which could hit low first or overhead first and no matter which hits, he will immediately trance you again and summon another bat over and over until you get lucky and block it.
CT was my first fighting game I owned for myself and actually tried to learn legitimately, and I don't think I'll ever recover from Arakune's jumping low. 11 year old me played "the floor is lava" with funny fast cat lady because I didn't want to deal with it. Nu and Carl taught me patience and how to take a loss, but Arakune taught me the fear of god
Yoooo a 45 min collab with Sajam? You’re spoiling us 😌 Also, I love hearing people complain about characters/moves (especially people who usually don’t complain) so I’d love to see this series keep going
You know something is absolutely busted when the people who don't complain about anything complain about it.
It's weird listening to Sajam talk without seeing him fix his hair every second.
I forgot about rose garden since it got nerfed so hard it barely gets used. Not to mention, that move is a lot more insane than I remembered. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite was lucky to get good patches on the truly broken stuff before support died. Without that, the competitive scene probably would not have lasted a year.
You know it’s a really shame infinite died out as quick as it did because despite its shortcomings the gameplay itself is actually hella fun. I get why a lot of people don’t like it and I know the roster was weak but I still enjoyed it. It didn’t fail sales wise as bad as people claim either, it sold over a million copies which is pretty good for a fighting game so hopefully we get another MVC someday
@@jeremyroberts8822The problem is the ceiling. It’s one of those games that’s not supportive of a new player base. Not cause the community is shit the community is great it’s just the learning curve of the game itself is steep. My very first MvC online match was me getting 100-0’d three characters in a row off one hit confirm. I by no means am new to fighting games I play everything from Smash to Tekken at a pretty high level and still ended up getting my shit ran
LK talking to himself about fighting games with the talking png of sajam inside his head
Two of the best fighting game content creators talking about some of the most fucked up moves in fighting games. Ya love to see it.
As sajam was explaining superman all I could think was: "So he's a dbfz character"
forward advancing strings that's cancellable into plus frames, or at least safe, but if that advancing string hits
😨
Yes but the other characters don't have tools to deal with these options
Very impressive that Sajam managed to keep a straight face and stay very still throughout this video
Damn finally a collab with Diaphone
Sajam seems nervous, he doesn't move his face the entire video. Relax!
Worth noting that Dorm’s rose garden got HUGELY nerfed. He has noticibly longer recovery and the duration is a bit over half of what it was on vanilla. It’s still a great move cause even if he didn’t have time to run mix, it’s a tag fighter so it’s just lockdown for your other guy. Dorm’s pretty solidly top 5 still.
But this is honestly missing 2 major aspects of why it was broken. First off Vanilla reality stone basically covered you and meant you could set this up for free.
But second, the big big one, it now goes away if dorm is hit. I can’t believe this wasn’t mentioned. Even if you escaped you still had to hold it, even if Dorm just set down the controller and you had a perfect angle on your jump, the majority of characters could not punish without just getting hit by carpet and giving Dorm a free combo. You’d straight up see people using it like an armor’d anti air, and taking the hit as you cast to bait them in.
It shows him getting hit and staying out
Before superman, it was F3 Johnny Cage, same kind of situations almost, confirming 8frame advancing mid into full combo ending in nutpunch standing reset right back into the pressure.
That knowing "Are you okay?" from Sajam at the end. When you've been through all the "things went wrong on stream."
Geeezzz Maya was plain broken lol
Sajam has been talking more Injustice and I think he's having PTSD.
LK for sure gave us some good and strong moves in FG, but Sajam obviously is showing us the moves that divide nations.
I wonder if platform fighter moves will show up in this series. Smash 4 Witch Time and Limit Charge, or something from Brawl Meta Knight's kit come to mind. And Shine, of course.
Bayonetta side b was also what made her broken. But since so many of these moves in the video were changed after a patch, I bet they would talk about things like Ultimate 1.0, which I saw a video on yesterday.
That would be a fun bit of conversation. One of the shines of course, maybe Falco Dair, Shulk’s Monado arts, Puff Bair, and could be fun if we saw some stuff from other platform fighters. Like Wrastor’s slipstream in Rivals or some stuff from Multiversus.
@@Yee-Haw_Bird Multiversus seems to be really unbalanced with some things they introduce. I am guessing the Bugs Bunny rocket would be one move.
@@sigurdtheblue i thought it would just be finn backpack
Aside from Neutral B, there isn't really any single move in Meta Knight's kit that is broken and even then, you could argue that it doesn't stand out that much from his kit. The problem is that most of his moveset is godly AND most characters in the game are garbage, either due to sucking on their own (Ivysaur) or being screwed over by awful core gameplay (Captain Falcon).
Idk how this was recorded, but Sajam is mixed WAY lower than LK and I have to keep adjusting my volume so I can hear hear him, then LK blows out my speakers
I thought it was a Sajam vid on his own channel when I initially saw the thumbnail ngl LMAO
For Smash, my picks would be:
Melee: Puff's Back Air.
Brawl: Diddy's Bananas.
Multiversus: Iron Giant bolts
What about Lab Coat's 1 bar, damn near unreactable, grab that reduces your damage output by 20%?
And pre "nerfed" where it was frame one invincible, unpunishable, comboed, hit otg, hit in block stun, and pulled you out the corner by a pixel to super into 21's level 3 50/50?
Hidden Missiles needs to be in this series if it isn't already. That move does everything. EVERYTHING.
Also, Azwel's low-axe grab. I don't know the input (2A+B I think?), but Azwel as a whole definitely can get some entries on this list. Which makes sense considering he's the successor to Algol. Speaking of Algol, dude has multiple GOOD projectiles in freaking Soul Calibur of all games. SC4 Algol was a nightmare. And while I'm still on the SC train, SC4 Hilde, just the entire character in general for being able to ring out basically anyone from basically anywhere on basically every map.
And finally, the one that annoyed me the most playing casually, SC6 Seong-Mina's insane lightning poke. Absolutely degenerate, insanely braindead, absolutely obliterates some matchups all on its own.
Aerial lows are fun. I play Sakura in Fate/UC and her 214C is a low regardless of if she uses it on the ground or in the air. (It's also negative edge)
how was sajam able to stay completely still like that the whole time
LIVE SAJAM REACTION:
20:00 UI goku 5L wasn't just easy to use though, it was very flexible! You could beat out most jump ins, normals, sometimes even vanishes! The massive hitbox, good active frames for fast startup, and his kit's overall ease of converting into a combo off it... that thing was horrifying.
Saw Sajam in the thumbnail and got confused...
He's in the vid so I thought there was no better way to show that in the thumb than the good ol Sajam smile hahaha
@@LordKnightfgc Oh for sure! It was a great way to get me to click and I was very happy to see you both in the video :D
Lmao you knw when youre an LK fan when your instinctual answer to these questions are arakune (broken) and ui goku (not broken) lol good stuff
Really cool to see fgc creators collaborating more
Nath's entire kit in AoS2, it invalidates a lot of the cast.
I would also add: Tekken 1 King's DF1. This move is a 14 frame active mid that is +7 on hit(the quickest move you have in this game is 8 frame) and on block guess the frames...
It's +93. Yup. really. You literally have forever to do whatever you want after getting this move blocked. Combos easily do 70% with like 3 hits, and with some practice, you can death combo them easily. This was an old game, but this move was... *phew* something else.
Sajam breaking down superman f+2 sounds like the most well thought out salt mine response. Nah, but for real, that shit was busted
"This is his second appearance on the show though."
Yes. Arakune is, in fact, that fucking bullshit.
This is all cute, but the most powerful thing in any fighting game ever is Zappa's sword ghost summon from Guilty Gear Accent Core +R. That thing is INSANE.
It's a floating hitbox that can disassociate from Zappa, effectively becoming a lingering "projectile"(it's not one so anti-projectile moves can't stop it), it doesn't go away until Zappa gets hit, and Zappa can 50/50 from any point on the screen in multiple ways into conversions for very high damage with no risk whatsoever. He can move it forward with attacks or call it back with different attacks and even his DP, which effectively becomes a fullscreen DP with no counterplay when the sword is away. Zappa can manage the sword so it stays forever on you, if you get put in the corner by this you effectively lose.
Here's a glimpse of what he can do : ua-cam.com/video/5z5i6kiMhHc/v-deo.html
I honestly feel like what Kesuke does with Testament in +r is leagues above sword. Also some match ups actually prefer Zappa to have sword instead of dog or triplets
Idk... it's hard dealing with it at first, but it's easy to counterplay it with long enough pokes or reversals, or even just projectiles. The main thing is to focus on targeting Zappa when the sword is out and then go on the offensive when there's an opening in his strings... of course some characters are better at this than others, but it's FAR from unfair.
If we're gonna talk about unfair shit in accent core plus r though, let's talk about Justice. She is a damn war criminal is what she is xD
Arakune player (derogatory)
How did I know the second KI was shown, it would be Maya fireball? There is no part of that move that was bad
I honestly don’t know what they were thinking when they put that in the game, how did anyone think that was okay?
I paused the vid to say this but "no one likes arakune but arakune players" is a lie, Rachel players love arakune players cause that match up is straight up bullying.
looking at this video after the creation of the Sajam Face PFP Multiverse is incredibly funny
Ok, 2 things I wish to say and to a degree, vent about.
1. Mortal kombat 9 Johnny Cage forward three should have been in this, free chip damage, and full combo is plus on block. But most of all, Every single time he used it, the opponent had to deal with random frame data, Johnny could be either neutral or plus on block, with no way to know, you have to guess every time he uses it. In short, it’s a combo starter and a frame trap in a single package.
2. I wish to give an honorable mention for injustice 1, just because it’s less iconic than Superman’s combo.
Doomsday’s earth shake. This move is the most annoying move ever, in any game to deal with (not the most broken, but still). It is a safe on block overhead + low, meaning that every time he used it, you had to block high then low, if you don’t he knocked you down. And if he did knock you down he could just use it again and you just are forced to block a 50/50, he either uses it normally and you get overhead + low, or he delays it and you just get the low. He also had setups for this annoying situation and a counter in case you wanted to use a wake up to stop him.
Thank you for reading, and have a great day
I saw the name of this video and thought “man injustice 1 doomsday slam will definitely make the list” then I saw injustice 1 and thought I was right. Superman punch was probably better overall but goddam did doomsday slam make me think it was “unfair”.
this vid was great and weird at the same time.
Sajams whole thing in insisting every character has answer to every situation in every game no matter what. And then to see him finally admit there ARE broken characters in fighting games is wild
You talking about Michiru 5a Makes me think of Them's Fightin' Herds Season 1 Oleander 5A, where like... in TFH, it's universal, EVERYBODY'S 5A is frame 5, and Oleander's was completely disjointed and huge because it'd smack you with the book. you basically couldn't challenge Oleander at round start because she could reach you with 5A and you had to respect it. she could stagger it for looping pressure or it made for an excellent wakeup option because attempting to meaty her could result in her doing her 22D teleport and waking up invincible, but 5A was faster than most things characters could do after seeing her wake up normally. 5A was also gigantic enough to cover people's tech roll on wake-up and could challenge SO many buttons because of the disjoint.
It used to be even more disjointed than it is now? Goddamn, I didn’t know her 5A was even more privileged than current. Then again if old tfh is on the menu Ole’s J2C might need to be mentioned.
@@Yee-Haw_Bird yeah, it used to not move her forward, but also like.. she wouldn't extend her hurtbox at all. the entirety of the book was just a big ol' hitbox she'd put out at frame 5 and some characters just had to hold it.
Bruh how are your button presses STILL SO LOUD? Is your stick right next to your mic? Do you hit them that hard? Like what is it?!?!
the instant kills in Guilty Gear 1, no bias, definitely didn't get hit and mess up the dodge
This video in a nutshell: "that's not even the reason why this move is broken".
I don't like the way Sajam is looking at me. He didn't blink once the whole video and he seems to be speaking telepathically. 😢😢
Plz balance the audio. Sajam too quiet and I turn it up and LordKnight hurts my ears.
Sajam got 5th at Combo Breaker 2015 for KI, I had no idea
Ive been loving the collab content from the FGC creators recently. We all eatin good this week lol
No MK9 or UMK3 Kabal's TK Air Blast. A fast traveling, fast recovery projectile that hit about the head of the character wich make it imposible to jump and neuther half of both roster in each game. If you can't combat this thing the matchup become basically 9-1.
Kabal is top 1 in both game because of this
The character is banned, but UMK3 Noob Saibot's ghost ball would fit the bill. A projectile that, on hit, inflicts a state where you can't block or attack for several seconds. A move he gets off any combo starter, and can be timed to be unblockable on wakeup meaning he loops it.
Sajam's in game name for KI being Bonk Chonkler gives me life
lordknight seems like such a sweet cool dude
Thank you for this blessing, my Lord. Praise be.
i subcociously clicked like when i saw killer instinct. best fighting game of all time
“Yeah, IJ1 Superman has a forward 4, 2, 3 combo that hits mid and punishes backs, that’s plus distance, that explodes unscaled damage into a free 20 OTG, with plus unblock.”
Bro, what? I need a fucking master’s degree to figure out a single sentence this man says.
I loved Litchi
But i really got tired of relearning her in every blazblue game
Tekken 3 I believe king df2 +10 on block
Better example: Tekken 1 King df1 is +93 on block, inflicting a stagger state for free followups. You literally are better off just never blocking because he can jail into it and getting an optimal launch punish.
i like these types of videos
i like how long this video is, i love hearing you guys just talk about this stuff lol
I am loving the retrospectives on despicable fighting game moves.
how is blawg like 25 at max and looking 60
Two of my most important content creators.
Ivan Ooze from Mighty Morphin' Power Range The fighting edition could pretty much take every spot in this whole video. He's a playable hidden boss character akin to Akuma in SFII Turbo but broken beyond measure. Once you've seen what he can do, every other fighting game character (Jo jo bird, Brawl Meta Knight, Launch Maya, etc.) all looks tame in comparison. I hope you or Sajam look him up one day.
He's pretty notorious, the community has looked into him alot already, and I think they're talking about competitive play. Ooze is a crazy character tho
AH HELL NAH HE MAKES PETSHOP LOOK TAME??!!!
@@yureiotakughost9464 I would be lying to you if I said Petshop could even win a round against a competent Ooze. He's a 10-0 matchup against everybody else in the game. It's that unfair.
@@yureiotakughost9464 he is basically just better petshop, imagine if petshop could summon Soul Satellite instead of an icicle to get out of block pressure.
except he can do it while hes being hit and combo break for free and kill you
Dude with your gray hair you’re either graying extremely young or you look great for your age
Dragon is the least fun/lamest player to watch in any game he plays
My brother used to throw milk at me while I played Crash Twinsanity. I’d consider that an unfair attack.
Superman being broken is kind of canon though
Nobody should complain about Vanilla anime games being kusoge again, because holy shit
the weakest moves in azumanga fighter be like
I love the energy of sajam's face being a disappointed stare while you're a video
Wow I forgot how awful it was to fight Superman
The thumbnail made me think of my favorite old Dragonball Z dub quote:
Piccolo: "SAIYANS AREN'T FAIR!" (blasts Gohan point-blank in the face)
I definitely need to binge this series! This was amazing!
Played Arakune, played Dormammu, played team Tatsunical until zBuddy came out in DBFZ... Still think I feel worse about Doomsday in IGAU honestly, d1 shakey shakey
LK during Sajam's explanations looked like, "This dude loves fighting games way more than me. I didn't even think it was possible."
Liked the video globally, couple of things that you're probably aware that could be better:
- You talking in big on the screen with a Sajam picture is uncanny, having video would have been better
-- Especially as you are the only thing MOVING on screen when Sajam talks we see you looking here and there and it's weird
- Rythm tone and life. The video is relatively slow paced and use an even tone, but it feels a bit dead, I don't mean to you being hyper hyped over nothing, but it's really tame, need a bit of excitement here and there. You don't zone always on the same timings, it's the same dunno.
- Audio mix difference between you and sajam doesn't help, I think it makes your parts even more dull in this aspect ? Like I really like you as you are in solo videos, but here it feels jarring because the sound is SO even, whereas Sajam has more range, emphases, the mic settings etc are more dynamic. You sound overly compressed and equalized.
- Not having the game audios (I understand it can be extremly complicated) compounds this flat aspect, in the KI part it is present and I would have it liked to be 3dB or so louder
- To me, your content is relatively podcasty, so sound is really important, and more than that, cohesiveness in the sound
- Regarding the music it's so low that it just makes it a barely there background noise, I'd tune it up a notch?
I rarely post comment, but I really like your content overall, thanks for the hard work !
i heard the word Aquaman and just went ''uh oh''
I'm honestly surprised you didn't go for izamami ribcage or elphelt pineberry tbh. Or any sign elphelt moves LOL
Surprised there's no mention of TOTSUGEKIIIIIIIIIIII. It doesn't break the game as much as it broke my sanity. You cannot escape the dolphin.
at least kune's jD make sense as an aerial low, it's dirty but kinda makes sense. And arc sys isnt foreign to animations not matching what's happening, notably Faust's 2K looking like a jank overhead and A LOT of Dust (before xrd added the red glow too)
Even when I was inept at Injustice 2, watching Honeybee at Evo that year was so exciting, only to end with that bullshit. Trident Rush genuinely made me hate Aquaman as a character and Dragon as a player.
As someone who hasn't played that much of injustice, hearing sajam talk about superman was like, "Sounds fitting... He is superman after all."