The Biggest Fighting Game Glow-Ups
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- sometimes it pays to be bad
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Rock replay taken from Shiki: www.fightcade.com/id/shikipapa
Time Stamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:25 - Dee Jay (SF4/SF6)
7:49 - Jiren (DBFZ)
14:33 - Rock Howard (Garou)
20:59 - C-Roa (Melty Blood)
23:55 - Shadow Types (P4AU) - Ігри
Shadow characters went from:
"ITS NOT MEEEE" to
"I accept my less consistent but wackier side"
Lmao
“I am your shadow, your true self!” ahh characters
@@mythos6308yo True self sucks
@@guilhermegaspar752u good?
@@Br1anwastaken yeah, but i guess the yo True self sucks didn't really land well
she mixing my tape til it mister
i think if it it’s coming out as mist then you should definitely see a doctor
Truuuuuhh
She taping my mister till I mix
My entire reaction to Dee Jay’s glowup is just “HOLY CRAP HE’S A CHARACTER NOW?!”
To me he was always a character. All SFVI did was made him a complete chad to play.
@@BigK13372It's less that he wasn't character that people liked and far more that he was clearly a character that Capcom either didn't care for or know what to do with for the longest time. Even as someone who found him bland because of that, I'm glad to see that he *finally* got his due in _SFVI_ (especially since somehow 30 years later I think he's *still* the only Caribbean character in fighting games).
I’m meaning both in terms of gameplay style as well as actual characterization and personality. Before SF6, I could not tell you what his personality or interests were, but now it feels like he has an an actual *character,* rather than just “Oh he’s from Jamaica and he kicks people”.
@@funniloneliboi Yeah, before _SF6_ he was arguably the flatest character in the roster, even compared to E. "Only Sumo Allowed" Honda and resident Bruce Lee clone Fei Long. I'm sure if any _Street Fighter_ characters were flatter outside lf non-returning _SF1_ characters maybe, so I'm glad it finally changed.
@@MusicoftheDamned Even then, though, they still have *something* to go off of. Honda might have a boring character, but he still has a character. Even Fei Long still has more character just on the basis that he’s a Bruce Lee clone. But poor Dee Jay just had nothing.
One thing I love about the Dee Jay redesign is that he's retained some jank from SF4, but it's been designed around in clever ways. His two-hit fireball still loses to EXes but only because of the new fireball priority system. His own EX works against them just fine. His 5HP still whiffs on crouchers... But only if you're too far, and the far hit isn't cancelable anyways. I love these little weird traits he's retained in ways that don't hurt his actual gameplay.
what>
5HP is cancelable, 2Hp isn’t cancelable.
what is fireball priority? and why is Ken's hadoken so bad in this game?
@@mikebipping6166Fireball priority is the system that decides how fireballs clash. Dee Jay has a two hit heavy fireball, but it still loses to OD fireball because it's not about the number of hits, it's about whether you spent bar or not. Another example: Guile's lvl2 lets him fill the screen with mini-booms. But if you shoot an OD fireball, it'll eat through all of them and hit Guile unless he stops and blocks or jumps.
As for why Ken's fireball isn't all that good, it's because it isn't supposed to be. Ken is more about his run, and his various offensive special moves like dragonlash and jinrai. Ryu's the one who specializes in fireballs.
@@yoshitsune5691 5HP is cancelable, yes, but only during its first two active frames. The four later active frames (the ones that whiff on crouchers) aren't special cancelable and deal less damage (700 vs 800), though they do still give better advantage on hit/block as one would expect.
3:45 i believe Ed is the character that received most changes in a Street Fighter game like ever, he plays completely different than his SFV version
More changes than Seth, who got an entire new gender
@@huntsworthdoomgender mixups
@@jorgenitales5882 Gender neutral implies the existence of gender frame advantage.
@@InfinitySevens also, gender specific combos
@InfinitySevens Gender frame advantage? You mean Testaments stain state?
Another character with an insane glow-up in DBFZ was Android 17. Went from arguably the worst character in the game in season 1 with an unusably bad assist, to one of the best characters in the game with an assist so good people were begging for it to be nerfed back into the ground by season 3.
you mean 18 or 17? because 17 didn't exist in season 1.
@@HellecticMojoHe meant season 2 prob
@@HellecticMojo A17 was added right at the end of Season 1, he was the last character alongside Cooler to be in the first FighterZ pass. I guess you could count his addition as the start of season 2, but most people consider the addition of Videl and Jiren ~4 months later to be the start of season 2, even though the big season 2 update didn't happen until 2 months after their release.
@@Takahashi2212 You know, you are completely right, It's probably me considering EVO as the cycle's start and end points
Deadass, it's either him, Jiren or Beerus who got the biggest glow ups
shoutouts to Mewtwo in Smash 4, was widely considered a bottom 5 character until some buffs, proceeded to win a major after the buffs
Smash 4 Mewtwo is a big contender to what's probably my favorite fighting game character of all time. Shame his Ultimate incarnation got completely gutted...
@@-bemyvalentine- I still cant believe that looked at the damn near perfect balance changes of Smash 4 Mewtwo and said "Let's scrap ALL of that."
Ult Mewtwo is still fun if hard to use, but Smash 4 Mewtwo was just... amazing.
I just wish he still had his old aerial Shadow Ball momentum… I don’t even care about the tail hurtbox. His hurtbox could be the size of the Great Cave Offensive for all I care. I just wanna schmoove
if we're talking smash, I don't think anyone's had as much of a buff as Brawl ROB -> Ult ROB
The real glow up was Dee Jay’s design. They gave him so much life with his new outfit, it really hammers home that he’s a big music personality.
Not a Jiren main by any stretch of the imagination, but I think they did a great job with finally getting him into a good place; rethinking that frame data really did wonders for him.
GOAT commented
You’re here too?!
Sin kiske in GGST went from bottom 1 in season 2 to s-teir when season 3 droped
And all it too was orange wild assault and a couple tweaks to frame data
People were saying like "He's close to being a competent character, he just needs some sauce" and then season 3 gave him a whole bucket of sauce
Can't believe you didn't mention that SFIV Dee Jay had a normal that forced stand, but whiffed on crouch on nearly the entire cast. Not super relevant to his power as a character, but I think it's emblematic of how poorly thought out his whole design was.
Oh my god, he had that????
Right? It's the thing that stands out the most for me. He was busted from the very beginning, and the devs clearly didn't care all that much.
DAY 1 SMASH ULTIMATE PICHU.
Went from a joke character in melee to a potential top 1. Insane damage, movement, combos, everything. Can't believe i predicted that happening when i joked about it years ago.
I still remember joking to my friend I'll main him. Yeah, I put fear into his heart, and that once meme became one of my favorite characters in Smash History.
That's such an obvious example why didn't he add that??
@@rimzaaah5892probably because Pichu isn’t that busted anymore. All the examples are most recent
@@ultm8ninja Yeah he got nerfed to the ground, to the point I forgot he was in Smash at all
For a few patches, Jiren's Counter Impact also countered Dragon Rush, which was extremely funny.
Try something.
now do glow-downs
Happy chaos lol
Claw
SFV Juri
KOF XIV Andy.
I'm ready for the transphobes to say Strive Bridget and Testament (probably for having a trans English VA)
I love these videos where you go over characters like this. Your format works great for covering the intricacies of older and newer fighting games while also highlighting the hilarity of the baffling decisions devs made while making these games. Keep up the great work!
Seth in Under Night In Birth went from a low tier to a top tier when he was buffed in UNIST
Akatsuki too
Can't wait for The Biggest Fighting Game Beat-Downs. Excited to see my guy Sean's transition from top to bottom in 2nd impact-3rd strike in that one
please do it mix
Injustice 1 Scorpion went from Top 1 to Bottom 1 in a single patch
i think Roy's journey to the high-tiers of Smash is a really interesting one.
From Marth's shitty echo in Melee, to basically forgotten, until Ultimate's faster pace and emphasis on interactions have shot him far past his predecessor and into a staple in the top brackets.
also Roy's our Boy
I'd say one of the characters to get the biggest buff between games is Roll from Mvc/mvc2 to Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Like, she's still not amazing or anything, but she's actually a character while her previous version is so bad she doesn't even get a spot in tier lists at all
Not you gassing up rocks super for being frame 0 but not telling them about the Kevin super 😂💀😭
Originally rocks install lvl 3 used to only last for the round it was used and not carry over for remaining rounds. It got a buff to make it to what it is now
Definitely will like to see the opposite topic as well, I find this sort of stuff very interesting! Off the top for some examples of the opposite of this will be Eddie, who was top 1 in early versions of guilty gear xx, but lower tier in plus r (but still viable), and from what I heard of some friends, scorpion in early and later injustice
I was a Jiren main since he released in Season 2. Insanely fun character that made me into the player I am today, and his current state is like the *one* thing I like about Modern Day DBFZ.
These videos are so fun, please make more.
Agreed
Falcon from melee to brawl is definitely a case if the opposite for this video lmaoo
Yeah I’d like to see the vice Versa of this
rock is absolutely the premier SNK glow-up champion but as a whip main i have to give her a strong second place. she went from dogshit in KOFXIV to whatever's worse than dogshit in KOFXV and got buff after buff after buff to make her a respectable mid-tier at the end of the game's life cycle. half her kit barely functioned on launch and now she's got some of the best buffs i could ask for (far.C canceling into specials on the first hit, far.C vacuuming people way easier, 624+B going from slightly plus to unimaginably plus on block, etc.). all she needs now is her unblockable gun super from the 2000s and we have a chemically complete whip
As a Billy main, I can only look on enviously... My boy started out in the trash compactor and only managed to make it to the dumpster in the end.
The Terry Hintz channel member is fire, Lisa gang forever 💪 (great video by the way, I really would love to see the opposite end of the spectrum for good character who got harshly nerfed next!)
As a fan of deejay i can't go back to any other game after sf6
They finally figured out how to make him an actual character that doesn't make me think "guile is right there"
I love when reality matches up with canon. Just like in the ToP, you need to let Jiren cook for a while before he’s ready to fight at full strength.
Praying for Freeman to be in a sequel of this vid
One small thing worth pointing out is that one of the other major weaknesses of P4AU 1.1 Shadow-types was that activating Shadow Frenzy didn’t naturally disable the opponent’s Burst. Most of the strong Shadow types (ie Mitsuru, Chie and Naoto) had unburstable Frenzy combos simply because they just chained supers together. 2.0 further buffed Shadow types by having Shadow Frenzy just completely disable the opponent’s ability to burst defensively, which meant Shadow types across the board could use the mechanic without having to either force a burst beforehand or bait the burst mid-combo and waste a bunch of Frenzy timetime
I first wanted to mention sin in strive, but realised he was a bit broken in Xrd. So basically he swung like a pendulum from high/top tier to bottom 3 to high/mid tier.
How about instead of the biggest glow-ups, let's have the biggest drops
Great video as always, there is one big thing about P4AU 2.0 Shadows you forgot to mention though, that being the opponent cannot defensively burst during Shadow Frenzy
3:56 casually approach Marisa
not a 2d fighter, but leeroy in tekken 8 was considered worse than the bears until this recent buff. he might be top 5 right now
P4 sounds like it would be really fun if you banned all normal-type characters
I'd love to see a video on characters that got nerfed hard. I think about how dirty ArcSys did my boy Bedman between Revelator and Rev2 every day.
Okay but which characters got the best glow up visually? That's the real question
I'd say ed had a glow-up in sf6.
Any Guilty Gear Strive character.
SF6 Deejay.
Tekken 4 Jin, T8 Kazuya & Yoshimitsu.
KOFXV andy bogard is a strong contender if you remember how... animatronic he looked in XIV
Dee Jay still. The previous versions look like he overdosed on Joker venom.
Every time I face a Dee Jay in costume 2, I gotta ask if I'm facing someone that's blind.
@@HellecticMojodamn I just liked the pants lmfao
Imma be honest twelve from third strike needs a glow up, they did him dirty by making 11 in sf5
You probably wont know this since I assume you arent really a Strive enjoyer, but Anji Mito in Strive is exactly this kinda character.
Fella went from Low Mid tier to Low Mid tier but less fun, High Mid tier with more consistency and fun and then he got a new move and in two patches everyone realised holy shit Anji is top tier. He is still not really as consistently strong in all parts of the game as for example Sol, Ky and Leo, but he more than makes up for it by the existence of spin and its followup - a fully invunurable guard crushing plus 28 special coloquially known as fish. This actually fixed a massive flaw spin had in season 2 where if you swung into spin with meter you could RC and force Anji into a uncomfortable af position. You can still do that, but now you cannot force offense on him with RC, you can only really try to get the fuck away because you do NOT want to block fish or get hit by it. So now you really have to play *his* game and actually deal with spin.
This makes him a very strong, very unique, but also kind of inconsistent character. He either kills you or dies, but he can do that to pretty much any character now. Hes not a very popular top tier tho, so theres not really much matchup knowledge readily advailable and a lot of people still down know that Anji is even good, let alone top 7.
Anyways, cool asf vid, please do a part 2 of this Ill be very happy to watch it the moment it comes out.
If you do a nerf video, you have to talk about Third Strike Sean. Easily the least justified gutting of a character in fighting game history.
Potemkin going from his debut to his accent core version was a harrowing glow up.
You have serious talent at making these fgc videos. Looking forward to your next one.
ayo man nmh ost on the video is peak, keep on the good work (sorry for bad english)
You make amazing videos keep it up fr they great
A good example from us tekken players is t7 dragunov had no mids, no combo damage, and no wall game. T8 dragunov even after getting nerfed is strong as shit, good lows, good powerful combos, and pressure tools you cant really move away from.
Bro I love the commentary 🔥🔥😂
I love this channel ngl
Underrated fr
Roa being the absolute godtier character in Melty Blood is so hilarious if you’ve read the novel MB is based on: Tsukihime. He is an absolute pushover, is stated multiple times that he’s much weaker than NRVNQSR Chaos and only has like 3 fights the entire novel before being replaced by a different villain. Don’t even get me started on his existence in the Fate timeline or lack thereof because he gets his soul burned out of existence by Edmond Dantès (yes the same Edmond Dantès from Count of Monte Cristo, don’t ask).
However in the remake of Tsukihime, Roa has somewhat been reformed into a much better character. He’s pretty similar to his original version in the first route but the second route has Roa fully become an anti-hero and gives him a send off that legitimately had me crying.
I just heard him as the guy the funny cat lady wants to kill
Not only did Dee Jay get a gameplay glow up, but also a design glow up, because goddamn the guy looks stylish in SF6, one of the best designs in SF6 for sure
I can't wait to see a part 2 of this video in two or three years when Ganondorf is in the next Smash game and he's cracked.
Nice Mix Ups 👍🏿
Seeing the reverse of this video, characters who started out great and got nerfed to oblivion, would be pretty cool ^-^
lol I was disassociating toward the end and heard my name lmao. Keep it up dude, these are fun :)
love ur vids and script
An "opposing" video on this would be interesting, especially since now I'm trying to think of an example from every game or series covered. Regardless, it's nice to see Dee Jay finally be a functioning character period even if his Drive Rush is probably a bit *too* quick.
(Now if only Capcom could do the same for Vega and have him stop paying for his _Super Turbo_ Wall Dive sins. Fittingly, Vega might be the best candidate for the "opposing" video when it comes to _Street Fighter_ outside of perhaps Sean getting absolutely *dumpstered* by Capcom when going from _Second Impact_ to _Third Strike_ deliberately.)
Im so glad someone made a video about Deejay's glowup, he became a literal who despite being from the world warriors, into such a cool jazzy guy
Been a Jiren player since I started playing and he was low-mid leaning low. Ya love to see a cool character get the bugs they deserve
Just seeing the Jiren part reminded me of Moldy Bagel and Tiny Torgue
I feel like the changing of system mechanics is an underappreciated element of balancing individual fighting game characters. The active tag buffing Jiren is a great example.
Edit: A big one would be that in MK11, you had custom variations (additional moves you could choose from) in casual play, but only competitive variations in ranked and tournament play (set of 2-3 moves the game was balanced around).
What no one was expecting was that with the Ultimate patch competitive variations were eliminated entirely (meaning custom variations for all levels of play, including moves that just weren’t accessible outside of casual before). This obviously completely upended the meta as now characters weren’t only as strong as their best competitive variation, they were as strong as their base moveset plus their 2-3 strongest custom moves in tandem (including synergies that nobody had considered till Ultimate).
With that and a few buffs, Shao Kahn and Kollector went from bottom 2 to terrifying in the right hands.
Assuming you do make a video about characters getting nerfed to oblivion, I expect to see Zato-1/Eddie make an appearance. In strive he got Absolutely Botched with the nerfs in season 3 and season 3.5 and in the transition from GGXXAC and GGXXACPR he was absolutely gutted and was moved from Top 1 to bottom 2 in 1 update. Zato-1 also gets nerfed hard in Xrd from -sign- to Rev 2. We zato mains just cant enjoy him when hes good and we cant even just have him be an ok character.
Even though the game is still receiving updates and therefore this may change, Anji Mito from Guilty Gear -STRIVE- got a huge glow up over the past 3 Seasons
He was a contender for the absolute worst back in S1, to a mid-tier at best in S2, to just outside the Top in S3
It’s genuinely hilarious looking back at how borderline unplayable he was in comparison to now.
that deejay breakdown was so detailed, damn
Shadow Naoto was the first fighting game character I really clicked with which probably says a lot about me as a person
As someone who loved Dee Jay since seeing him in SFIV (I wasn't even an FG player I don't even remember WHY I had SFIV on the 360), playing him in SF6 and feeling how good he is nowadays makes me insanely happy
I clicked on the video expecting c-roa
truly one of the characters of all time
Nagoriyuki from ggst was an interesting case. He was considered bottom tier at the start but shot to the top very quickly. Potemkin was top tier in the beta.
I don’t think people count betas. Nago was mainly trash due to people not understanding how to use his resources and because of blood rage not understanding his resources make him lose the round.
Thinking about how Jirens counter used to counter grabs as well, sad day for all when that was removed
Got into SF6 as my first SF game and decided to go back to older titles excited to see how Dee Jay played beforehand. Shoutout to OG Dee Jay fans that had to suffer through that 🙏
Ive never seen a come back as hard as sc6 hwang
Okay but,,, TvC Roll, the oppurtunity was right there
It's hilarious how honest mids mike literally just takes away your ability to jump in a game that created air footsies as a concept
Dee Jay even got a deadly rave-like level 2 super, the real Winner in sf6
Lili from Tekken should’ve been on this list
Waiting for an update where Strive Johnny is on the list
Dee Jay was actually a high mid tier in ST. While it wasn't bugged like Chun's Dee Jay's Super was incredibly strong and he could even combo after it for added value. Add his incredible MK cross up and low short shenanigans and yeah Dee Jay was a combo monster with a fireball. His only real problem was his lack of a unique overhead, and well, being in the same game as N.Claw, N.Dhalsim, and O.Sagat. He could still certainly hang with other characters like Ken/Ryu though, and more often than not was preferable to Guile as far as that comparison goes.
13.7k subs and this video has 60k views, and it’s growing. If y’all don’t hit that damn subscribe button😭 these videos are so so informative and always entertaining🔥
Next video do gimped versions of returning characters. Start with Testament in GGStrive!
I thought this was going to be about aesthetic glow up. .-.
Thanks to the SNK franchises not being as popular in yhe US as they are in Mexico, i ended up picking up Smash as my competitive game of choice for a decade or so.
The couple of years Ike spent as a high tier in Ultimate because people didnt know how to parry yet were some of my favorite years in competitive gaming. Seeing my main since Brawl/PM go from low tier to a potential top 10 character felt fantastic.
It's a shame that didn't last, but at least Ike feels good to play now instead of feeling almost useless since even if he hits like a truck, he moved like Sisyphus's boulder
What you 0 frame start up? Do you mean 1f super and 2f super? Bc I use startup as the 1st frame hitbox is active.
It seems like you only talk about the same couple of games just wondering is there any particular reason for that like there are a lot of newer fighting games that would probably make for interesting videos like the injustice games
I honestly thought Vegeta Blue would be the DBFZ rep in here, for 80% of the game's lifecycle, he was either the 1st or 2nd worst character, and he STAYED there, rotting. Then, one day, somethinng clicked with the devs and he went from unusable to deleting healthbars from any opening with minimal effort
Rock in 14 was probably the strongest showing outside of Maximum Impact. At least the first version of him.
He could use his ex command grab as a otg/juggle move until Snk came to their senses.
20:59 Holy shit its Uncle Swedish Grand Dad Vargskelethor Joey Jobel Joel Vinesauce from popular Twitch streamer collective Vinesauce
Now we gotta see a opposite version of this video, a good example would be Percival from GBVS to GBVSR
Speaking of GBVS, a good example of a glow-up would be Soriz, the lean towards offense in Rising compared to the more defensive vanilla GBVS, along with the some powerful Ultimate Skills make him a much better character in Rising.
@strepsilsaregood4u Very true, even though I wouldn't watch that many gbvs tournaments from time to time, every few GBVS tournament I saw Soriz was NEVER there, probably there was so many characters that just straight up outclassed others in every way (still somewhat an issue) but now I at least see one Soriz every tournament I watch in GBVSR and doing very successfully
I thought this was going to be about design overhauls...
I remember when jiren could counter Dragon Rush. Those were the days
23:07 That's not even close to the fastest you can summon those bastards, either.
What was that game at the beginning of the video ?
*silence* -s Deejay
You're probably about to add Leroy to this list 🤣
From god, to lesser god, to slot filler, to potential god again.
Surprised strive sin kiske isn’t in here
Cause the transition from xrd to strive was a massacre
Since I come from a Smash Bros background, I have a cool one to share for biggest fighting game glowups: Mario.
Originally, Mario was designed to be an all-rounder brawler character with a good combo game, great damage, good frame data, average recovery, good kill power, etc. He was ranked very highly early on in 64 and Melee, with both games being very underdeveloped in both competition and tech. However, both versions of Mario got progressively worse with time with the emergence of more tech skill and characters that emerge from it outdoing him, as well as his range issues becoming more apparent, thus resulting in him becoming a below average-at-best character in both games. Nothing about him was outstanding enough to make him reliably compete with the top dogs.
Brawl made things worse by nerfing his kill power and adding him in a game engine with strong hitstun canceling, cripping his combo game. He was a low tier character in that one, a bottom 10 character.
Then, SSB4 changed everything, despite possessing a fundamentally similar moveset. For starters, hitstun canceling got heavily nerfed, no longer being around to cripple his combo game, and his kill power and recovery both got buffed with both direct and indirect changes. The main thing is that he was slightly reworked to be a far more combo oriented character; his raw damage from a lot of his moves got toned down, but in return, a lot of his moves such as down throw, up tilt, up air, down tilt, etc has been reworked to be strong, fast combo starters and extenders, and allows him more access to combo finishers like forward air, down air, and up B. This gives him a significantly more threatening presence at all times and even gives him 0-death potential depending on the situation.
Mario soared to the top tiers from all of this, and is often seen at the 9th-11th spot in most final tier lists seen with the game. In Ultimate, Mario keeps the exact same design philosophy as his SSB4 self, and is quite strong in that game too. Going from the first 3 iterations of Mario, especially Brawl Mario, to the beast that was SSB4 & Ultimate Mario, is likely the biggest glowup the Smash series has ever seen.
You could’ve just said pichu from melee to early ultimate lmao
You forgot R.O.B. in Smash Ultimate
sub to this man now
Idk if you have made a biggest downgrades in fighting games, but if you do, talk about Yamcha in FighterZ. Bro got shafted HARD
15:26 I see whatcha did there
how are we going to mention DeeJay and not talk about his SF2 design? they did him dirty from DAY ONE. definitely need to put some respect on his name, Capcom did great in 6.