Bernard Kerr - Concerns for the Future of DH World Cups
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- Last August I caught up with Bernard to chat about all things fun and some things not so fun. In this part of the podcast he discusses some of his concerns and thoughts about the 2023 Downhill World Cup season and the future of Downhill in regards to viewership, compensation and more!
Let us know in the comments how you feel and if a PPV model is something as fans you would get behind!
The problem is at the highest level in these corps, they don't actually have an interest in the sport, just the potential revenue it can bring. This is also true for most sports these days. They rather consult marketing teams than actual people in the industry.
capitalism mate!
100% true. This is also the reason why there is no real future in these structures, because in the end they destroying themselves.
@@cesarmayorga8257 Commodification specifically.
Moving beyond the important GoPro issue, Bernard, being a race team manager, understands a lot more about this than he lets on in this video. He’s not just speaking to the fans here, nor Discovery+/UCI, he’s also talking to the Team Owners. A lot is said here (well, last August) about other sports. In those sports, the ‘players’ have contracts with the team owners and that’s where the ‘players’ money comes from. In fact, Elite DH Team riders have contracts now and get a financial reward already for competing under the team banner (I’ll come back to that). Then the ‘games’ venues contract with the Team Owners to bring their athletes to ‘play’/‘race’ and so on. The venue/games owners get their money from ‘seats’ and from the media rights. After coats and profit that’s where the money comes from to pay the Team owners. In DH, the Team Owners sell bikes, and the racing helps that. So, it’s not Discovery+/UCI who should contract for the riders to race all the venues )unless UCI wanted to own the whole thing, like the NFL (which they do not). It’s the Teams who should pay the riders enough to race, which they do not at present. But to find that money, the riders have to help generate financial value. Bernard knows all this which is why he’s promoting the Riders’ Union. Eventually, there will be a compromise where the riders agree to a modification of what safe DH racing looks like (literally) at UCI Elite level; agree to a modification that generates enough income to give all the teams enough income to pay the riders a decent wage commensurate with what they are doing. And then that leaves privateers and grass roots doesn’t it…
Uci should pay though, the bacleys premier league pay the teams, the teams pay the players from that too, nfl, they pay the teams, the teams pay players, nhl pays teams and so on. Uci need to pay into the teams if uci want teams to compete, same as others. If they want to hatge the riders should be paid if the riders aren't allowed to use their own footage for UA-cam, bk is right and there's more than even you understand from your comment but it is easy to resolve, it never will be because of greed, big companies want money, the riders are the bit of sheet on the bottom of the big companies shoes, they are numbers, one rider walks away they find someone else the same as us going to work. Unfortunately that's how it works the riders in this situation are the little man and the little man always takes the risks and gets shit on while the big bosses win
Totally agree with BK. Fun fact, here in Spain we arent allowed at all to film qualys or finals and the races arent even live on UA-cam or smthng like that😂.
They haven't told us in the states how we are gonna be able to watch it. and i think we are gonna have to pay to watch if we can.
I wish you guys can just create your own union and have your own organised event 🤙
So this chat was a while ago, do we know what is going on now?
Hey up dean, Think we need a follow up interview with Bernard. Now that more information is out. Cos it looks like is pay per view.
Can’t wait for the season to start.
Next time I’m with him I’ll make it happen
@@DMs.withDEAN sweet. So looking forward to this season.
Have a good un. Send it n smile 🍻🍻
PPV is a dead duck to me ... I prefer the riders/teams/fans UA-cams ... 'specially BK's ... 😜 Actually I prefer visiting the actual races when I can ... then watch the UA-cams later ... ;)
They the riders should organise there own events Got the fan base reckon it could be gold
PPV is risky for the sport. How many people want to pay $100 a season when there are so many sports now like super cross trying the same thing?
Once I finish work today I’ll be watching this. This almost comedy like scenario the sport has been Forced into seems to be dividing the athletes, fans and general opinion of the sport. 😢
If you use your own go pro it puts you in the position of saying ‘ pay me for my footage’ and they wont want that. If they give you a camera, that footage is theirs to do what they want with.
No strictly true, as the copyright for media is with who created the photo/film, not whose equipment was used - e.g. if I lend you my camera, and you take a photo with it, it's your photo - I can't sell it. So the form they're signing is signing away their rights to the footage. Forcing people to use the supplied camera just makes it easier to get the footage, and removes the option of people using "their" footage and subsequent copyright breaches.
@@DurbsBT hadn’t considered that 👍🏻
I think it’s crazy how much you guys get ripped of with, this doesn’t happen in any other sport I can think of. And now they want to make it ppv without compensating you is just ridiculous.
5 months on & the situation about what is happening most likely has not changed
the riders need to get together & say sort this out!
or go on strike as the racing happening, if not sorted before first DH race in 4 months time?
The issue you have its not really PPV its on a paid for streaming platform with lots of other content alongside it. PPV events are typically one off shows like in boxing.
It’d be interesting to see how the big companies within the biking industry would react if the riders and teams decided to bring an alternative series to the table, in a way similar to what LIV Golf have done, or what Sam Reynolds did with Dark Fest ! The companies can’t have it all their own way, DH is nothing without these elite riders. It’s a punishing and brutal sport, as BK says they put their lives on the line hurtling down a mountainside at break neck speeds. Ever more now these guys are upping the stakes in terms of physical fitness and peak performance, gyms, diets, winter off season training, personal trainers the list go’s on………. It all comes at a cost………. Privateers what’s in it for them, we all know a rider out there that needs boost, sponsorship is fantastic but the added incentive of the 💰 helps them…………… let’s play ball guys and get those heads together and work out an amicable solution which benefits US the Fans , most importantly the riders !! BK for the DH riders union chair person 😉
The truth is, in almost every commercial enterprise, as far as big business is concerned, it’s all about income, the employees are nothing but numbers.
Man this is all crazy i'm surprised someone hasn't just com in there and opened there own club with better rewards and make a bace sponsorship rate per rider per race. Honestly i might go and look into it.
This is such an interesting debate. I wonder if the pay-per-view side of things has much to do with riders being paid - actually in most sports the tv channels broadcasting don't pay athletes, teams and sponsors do - the BBC or Sky doesn't pay formula 1 drivers, and the teams wealth isn't even slightly made from TV rights. PPV sucks for fans of MTB'ing because it's a small sport with a mostly younger audience, teenagers that won't be able to afford to watch every race. It sounds uncomfortable at first that UCI would charge PPV, and not pay athletes, but really that doesn't sound that bizarre in comparison to most other sports, the salaries should come from teams. Teams are owned by large and successful bike companies, that can certainly afford to pay riders a salary, so I'm not sure why more pressure isn't on them to compensate riders more.
Then again, if teams are forced to start paying their riders more consistent and sustainable salaries, the world cups would quickly become 4 or 5 big teams that can afford riders, and privateers and smaller teams would be edged out - but one of the unique and beautiful things about the sport is that anyone can win any race and if you're fast enough to qualify (and can afford to travel to events) you can make it in the starting line up and win a race.
I can't help but think that DH is a really unique and small sport, that is very delicately balanced. I could be wrong but I dont think it's a huge money maker for any party involved - to be a big team and pay for the trucks and staff, and travel expenses - I doubt they make a huge profit and even then I bet it's hard to quantify, as the profit comes from bike sales. If UCI want to capitalise and try to make more money off viewers, they'll struggle due to the size of the sport and the age of most of its audience. Riders don't get into it to make a killing, obviously. It seems like a rare sport where chasing the money seems like a hiding to nowhere, and all energy should be put into making it sustainable for all parties, rather than making a quick buck off it.
I dont know what im on about though also
I believe it's BBC pays Formula 1 for the rights to broadcast, Formula 1 then pay the teams, who pay the drivers. So no, directly the broadcaster doesn't pay the athlete, but it's trickle-down. Where this proposal sucks would be Broadcaster pays UCI, and then it stops.
Is there a MTB Riders union?
There will be. Started to form at the end of last year…I think this story is on pinkbike.
You are wrong in the sense that this would reduce viewers and then sponsor $ for the riders would probably go down since their is less advertising happening. This is literally insane. Absolutely right about dancing monkeys. Horrible plan to go PPV
I would be fuc%ing pissed if I flew 12 hours and trained for months for a race. Then get a camera taken away in the start hut. When I was going to use that footage for my UA-cam channel witch makes me money.
I get just as much if not more from watching all the shit behind the scenes at races on channels like Bernards and fox dialled. If I don't see a live race I don't lose sleep. Fuck paying to watch the race run if the riders get nothing..
Like golf, make the cut - get paid!
Another situation where the well-being and financial security of the people who actually bring in the money is overlooked.
It's amazing how narrow these corporate executive's vision is ... Problem is they're get rich quick type business people. They're not interested in growing the sport, and building equity long term. If they're not gonna make a buck this year, they're not interested, simple as that. The riders should just form their own organizations instead of relying on others.
UCI need to understand you the riders are their best asset. They will not understand that until the riders stand up to them. Riders need a union or association if their own. Get together and firm your own championship… as other discussions on the subject, fcuk UCI! Go your own way. I’m sure Merc or brown bull would front it ? No?
Cycling in general presents a great opportunity for investors and corporate interests to really expoilt athletes and maximize profits. It's also not just cycling. If you want an idea of what MTB is in for, go look at the early years of MMA. There is no shortage of young athletes doing what they love who can be easily exploited and replaced if necessary. If riders want to really benefit from the money coming into the sport, they need to look at sports and leagues where athletes have successfully gained a good proprtion of the money coming in. For example: the IPL cricket series. Unfortunately I don't think the bottom 96% of DH riders will see any significant benefit. They will just be told "the money is coming next year, after everything is settled in more stable". This will be repeated every year.
I'd be really interested to see what Bernard and other team owners etc.. think of the Discovery / Warner merger. Their new CEO has been on a non-stop cost cutting rampage since taking over. How can people think that they will be pouring money into the sport when every single other business unit in the company is being slashed? The company has been losing money for more than a year.
Ultimately it comes down to greed from the people at the top, they couldn't give a monkeys about the competitors or the sport, all they care about is lining their own pockets. Very sad indeed. 😔
I wont be paying to watch DH world cup if it goes to pay per view and I watched the mens and womens racing religiously on RBtv. Watching Laurie Greenland pinning it in Canada on thr V10 mullet made me want to go out and buy the new SC Nomad v6 as my next bike.
I'll happily pay to watch. The more resources and planning that the new organisation can implement will allow for footage to be better than ever. If there's more revenue coming in than riders can be payed more. I'll happily support the sport I love.
Like the NHL NBA MLB. All major sports being played they are leagues so players are paid by the teams organization and keep back from the labeled league therefore in the leagues there is limits to what you can wear and use and people in the sport have sponsors growing up I played hockey travel to tournaments I was not being paid but wore things from the league however the sponsor I had paid me to use their products like today ..any sport and money will either work for both or kill the spirit of it. Remember we all started or sport for fun as kids don’t forget that
After the information that has come out from Chris last week, I truly believe from a viewer point of view we are going to get more and better footage which I'll happily pay for. Actually being able to plan and modify venues years in advance to build better tracks for riders and viewers alike will be key. Hopefully that revenue comes through to the riders becasue they are the stars of the show. In order for the sport to grow it did need to come under one banner / organisation, and the vision Chris has is what it needs right now.
I can pay to view. If I know its going to also pay the riders. If not, im just not gonna watch it. Simple as that and I hope alot more will do it the same as I.
Wow 😟…… is it worth it guys anymore. Is it worth risking yourself. The brands already know social media is king so why I ask are they still even entertaining this when their riders can bring in more relevant product coverage and potential sales through real life situations and fun over heavily and it now seems corrupt racing just so the badge is the champ. Your sponsors are also failing you but I can say that and I will because I’m a potential buyer. Does,not mean I’ll buy the brand far from it. I don’t watch the World Cup treating it as right I’ll watch this brand and if he or she wins I’ll buy and go damn fast. That’s breeding stupidity out of corporate ignorance and greed and actually insulting to viewers. We watch the riders our hero’s as we follow their personal videos , talents and characters which does bring brand loyalty. We happily watch adverts, buy merch and if required pay a little extra but you know the rider is getting paid for risking it all in the pursuit of us the viewers happiness and excitement. And now the sport is run by a truly awful buissness model well known for pure greed with no care to the welfare or respect of the riders governed by a totally corrupt sport governing body. Get out guys boycot ,strike do whatever it takes but don’t give in and become a puppet to these Tyrants. Stand your ground and give them hell your sponsors should they must support you and watch how you become more powerful as we will follow you as we are the fans and we ain’t happy. I’ll miss not watching guys it made my weekends and I would pay but not as it is now. I’m very very angry and passionate at times so I say it how I see it. Do not risk it please it’s not worth it. Sorry I went off on one. Keep it real .
There is a big shift going on, also in the world of professional sports. You can see it in nearly every category.... athletes are revolting, whether its in DH mountainbiking, the UFC, football, tennis etc...
Racers need to unionize
If its PPV hardly anyone will watch it,I cant afford fuckin brake pads never mind to watch a race,hopefully if it is I'll be able to torrent it
Totally not fare how they could not pay you guys at some stage!
I think BK is right about disrespectfulness of organisers at events towards riders, 100%. "Performing monkeys" comes to mind..... I would imagine if there was a strike of the top teams, then with the big teams out of the way by the next event there would be a lot of 'individuals' & privateers trying to podium or fight for rainbow jersey none the less..... forcing the brands to come back. An argument would be having a different race series but that takes a lot of wedge to start up from nothing..... and won't have that Jersey......
Don't ever forget that from a wider standpoint/bottom line is that the teams & manufacturers are selling product and earning bank $$$; the winning isn't everything, its a good metronome for finding the good bikes, etc. but being in the right place is everything and having the opportunity to shine and show their wears is of the utmost importance.
The teams needs the UCI/Discovery Circus to advertise their name/brand. The brands are having to maintaining a presence at races which is costly but unfortunately for the big players a necessity in marketing..... which in the end we as the end users will be paying for! And that is the reason or it all, to sell more bikes......
The people spending dough that are floating between which bike brand they are buying next year normally don't know that brand's results last year at Fort William nor what bike the current World Champion is on, they will buy a brand's bike at face value or off a good salesman.
Those people/punters (dare I say it) probably won't be the people that buy the Discovery pay per view, the real fans will be the suckers and have to pay. That current pool of people is quite small compared to other sports and thus the vicious cycle starts - Discovery need to charge the loyal fans as the views are low the advertisers are thin on the ground, once a larger more stable following has been cemented in place the opportunities increase on revenues.
While I have time for his point of view I think Bernie is coming at this from a team management angle; which is his prerogative, the factory might not be paying the right amount on the contracts, etc. - I firmly believe It's the teams/brand responsibility to recompensate their riders handsomely at the 'show', because at the end of things they are trying to sell their products, they benefit from good results. Rather than UCI/Discovery shit show (and there are so many other things wrong with this partnership) maybe a shake-up is needed with brands/teams paying the riders correctly and those riders not relying on UCI prize funds to pay the bills.
What if riders were paid a commission from the bikes sold that year or some sort of profit sharing?
@@evanboleware5749 Just the right sort of wage from teams would be a massive step forward. A case in point - look at roadies and there being an understanding of wage lower limit for a pro tour level rider. Why can't the industry agree what is the bottom limit for riders on the WC circuit and pay. The prize money will stay second to the 'glory' as it is meant to be.
UCI blows. The debacle with the US Open last year is what really made me turn on them
Golf?
@@gweflj MTB @ KIllington, VT
At least for DH there is only one in the start gate at a time unlike XC. Just ban together and refuse to race at the opening race if you want to empower the DH racer.
The individual content from the riders and their social media is 100 times more entertaining than the official stuff. The move to a paid service is just greed in my opinion. There's every opportunity to place adds or even make red bull a paid for streaming service at a couple of pounds a month. I'm not signing a couple of years to discovery just to watch UCI when I can watch the riders runs on UA-cam.
So this happened to World Cup Climbing - also with Discovery+ - and tied into that was that climbers can't release any real quantity of their own footage from the comps, or official footage (copyrighted). Likewise took a free, live-streamed sport with a large following, stuck it behind a paywall "to increase exposure of the sport" (??), and restricted what the athletes could do with their footage.
I've now not watched a world cup bouldering comp for 3 years...
Similar parallels, its a MASSIVE task to organize these competitions; venues, judges, tech, streaming, equipment - all costs time and money, so it's hard and costly to setup a breakaway event, so competitors are stuck between wanting to compete, but not wanting to compete for the only organization which is running the shows.
MTB is already pretty elitist to afford .. I don't even see the point anymore to watch or wanting to race if it doesn't profit the riders, the mtb brands; and now we have to pay to see a 6 times a year event .. We better promote and keep the sport alive outside of competitive races if it has become that constricting and unfun .. 99% of riders just want to enjoy themselves outside of races anyway ..
You're just a "human resource" to these large companies looking to make profits off your backs!
Im not gonna watch if I have to pay
Without the riders there is no 'product'. I say strike
Great to have the balls to talk about this elephant that’s been in the room since like Sept 22.
As much as I want you guys to have a BIG income and pension (you are already generating income through our massive youtube views and the both direct and indirect concequences of that) I, and everone I spoke to since last summer, is not paying a penny/ cent to watch you go down the hill.
As gratefull as we are for the content of the races, not every rider gets on air, you can never put cams all down the track so you will never have a full live report of every contender doing the whole track.
Like pay per view Formula 1, World Cup Football, boxing, hell even darts.
Everybody already makes money of the WC downhill. So why try to rake in all one can get and blow it up?
When I talk to people on forums about 80-85% says they will not do a pay per view.
It’s one hell of a cool thing to watch you race but when I miss the competing element but watch you shred for free on your youtube channels who cares about the UCI?
My 50 cents?
Film as much as you can yourselves during race weekend and get an even bigger youtube channel 😉💪🏻💪🏻
My thoughts exactly. The quality of coverage just doesn’t warrant me paying for it. It has gotten better with the introduction of drone footage, but still…
Soooo…. The NFL pays its player directly? The NHL pays the players directly?… FIFA pays? No…. The owners do….
@@jamisonr not quite i think the tv rights are a minimal percentage of income that teams receive, most being their own financial backing (wealthy owners, look at Chelsea), sponsorship deals for the teams, and of course, in most sports, tickets being sold to home games
Bernard Kerr talking far to much sense here 👍
Put BK in charge.....
Bernard needs to organize the riders. Time for a strike!
Luckily MTB rider’s have more balls than SX dudes, so that could be a likely scenario!
If they put a pay gate up the sport is done
Do fans care that little about the sport that they won't pay for better planning, more cameras and better footage? That's the bigger problem that having to pay for a service.
Need to get rid of redbull
It's not Redbull, it's Discovery channel now.
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