Beethoven: Missa solemnis - Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century - Live concert HD
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2016
- Het Orkest van de Achttiende Eeuw en Cappella Amsterdam o.l.v. Daniel Reuss spelen Beethovens 'Missa solemnis' tijdens het AVROTROS Vrijdagconcert.
De uitvoerenden:
Orkest van de 18e eeuw en Cappella Amsterdam o.l.v. Daniel Reuss
Carolyn Sampson [sopraan]
Marianne Beate Kielland [alt]
Thomas Walker [tenor]
David Wilson-Johnson [bas]
Het programma:
Beethoven - Missa solemnis
Opgenomen: AVROTROS Vrijdagconcert, vrijdag 14 oktober 2016, in TivoliVredenburg te Utrecht.
Het AVROTROS Vrijdagconcert is een concertreeks van NPO Radio 4 en AVROTROS, in samenwerking met NTR, de Stichting Omroep Muziek en TivoliVredenburg. Kijk voor het concertprogramma 2016-2017 op www.radio4.nl/avrotrosvrijdagc....
I am a non believer. Having said that, this music just blew me away !
Beethoven is always here.
prachtige uitvoering van deze compositie van mijn idool Ludwig van Beethoven
Wat een heerlijke uitvoering van dit stuk! Niet te langzaam niet te snel, niet te bombastisch of te lichtvoetig, gewoon prachtig! .
Condivido confermo anch'io con lei
Was für eine großartige Leistung!! Ich danke dem Chor Cappella Amsterdam! Ich danke dem Orchester! Ich danke den Solisten. Beeindruckt hat mich vor allem die Sopranistin. Vor allem aber danke ich dem Maestro Daniel Reuss! Diese Musik wird mich begleiten, wird sich in meine Seele festsetzen. Und ich werde mir dieses Konzert immer wieder anhören, damit diese Beethoven-Musik für mich noch eingängiger wird. Ich bin erfüllt und grüße alle Mitwirkenden!
Such beauty, incredible performance
As always, you did an amazing job. No wonder you wanted Stieler to paint you writing this mighty work. May you be blessed IN AETERNVM. All glory to God, patrem, filium et spiritum sanctum.
My favorite Beethoven Missa Solemnis, well controlled vocal performance makes good acoustical effect, the clear head voices seem angels' singing , totally different from other heavy handling choruses, good job and well done !
Rhythmische und spannende Leistung dieses ewigen Meisterwerks! Alle Solisten singen echt schön und die milden Töne aller historischen Instrumente klingen auch himmlisch.
Majestic, Celestial , Beautiful performance, Wonderful soloists Humanity at its nobelist. Thank You.
Une véritable perfection musicale !
Merci au chef d'orchestre et aux remarquables musiciens !
Bien cordialement .
Pierrot
Monumentale immortale pagina musicale sinfonica
The most beautiful interpretation I've ever heard. The dynamic is that of the master, a voice rising from the other, something he even did with the timbres. The ketledrums, another brand.
And I thought Beethoven's orchestration was inept. Thank you. I have heard this for the first time.
Nope it wasn't😂
So extremely beautiful!!
I got to hear the Missa Solemnis live at the Eastman School of Music when my brother was in the chorus and understudy to the tenor. It was then that I realized that this became my favorite religious work of them all, or at least a tie with the Messiah. That was over 30 years ago. It has grown on me even more over the years. Herr Beethoven, your wish was granted....this one went straight to my heart!
IMHO I think a number of works are superior to Messiah, Bach b-minor mass, this work, Schubert B-flat Mass e.g.
What is the hype with this Messiah, I will never understand. Truly I've tried it many times and most of these tries I couldn't even finish it because of sheer boredom. I do acknowledge the fame and the pomposity of the work but I think it bears not so much of a significant musical value at all. I think we owe the 'importance' of it thank to the over praising of British musical circles in order to have at least one 'big' significant choral work to be written to their name. Bach's St. Matthew Passion and B minor Mass, Haydn's last 2 oratorios (as well as Nelson Mass), Mozart's Requiem and C minor Great mass, This Work, Cherubini's C min., Brahms and Verdi Requiem's (as well as the 4 sacred pieces by the latter), Carmina Burana, Shostakovich's 13th symphony (Bach's Magnificat, Bruckner's Te Deum, Mozart's Coronation Mass as 'smaller' masterpieces) et al. are way more significant works than Messiah. And if someone values it and dismisses half or more of the above mentioned works, I'd doubt the intellect and taste of that person for choral music.
@@bruce122046 Please share those works with us, Bruce.
@@caginn Händel simply took advantage of the boom of protestant oratories in England at that time after the fad of spectacular opera productions, which he had also capitalized on, had gone out of fashion. With these oratories he both wrote religious works for the zealot audience, while at the same time praising his compatriate Hannoverian king. This enthusiasm apparently has carried over within the countries of the anglosphere to this day. That's my take at somewhat of an explanation.
0:03 Kyrie
9:18 Gloria
26:23 Credo
45:58 Sanctus
1:01:30 Agnus Dei
What a performance!
Wat heb ik weer intens genoten van zowel de solisten als Cappella Amsterdam en het Orkest van de 18e Eeuw. Het was een waar(dig) spectakel. Hartelijk dank AVRO & TROS dat we opnieuw kunnen nagenieten van zoveel moois!
Fantastische opname van maestro Daniel Reuss met die camera!
Carolyn Sampson you are a superstar whether it is Early Music or something like Beethoven. It suits your voice both perfectly!
A beautiful performance that is uncluttered and seems to me to be more realistic than some of the huge productions of this masterpiece. Perhaps the first time I have been able to distinguish all the vocals and instruments and appreciate Beethoven's subtleties, complexities and harmonies.
Absolutely correct!
That´s exactly what I mean! Thx
I tell you, the modern winds simply don't cut the mustard; even Klemperer admitted as much. Also, the non-solo vibrato of modern performances really gets in the way of the harmonies.
I sometimes felt that some of the "inner voices" in the Missa Solemnis could only be heard by a deaf person.
prachtige uitvoering!
mooie balans tussen koor en orkest. Redelijk verstaanbaar en met gevoel gezongen.
Met vriendelijke groet, veel dank en groeten uit San Luis Potosi, Mexico.
ベートーベンもこのパフォーマンス 只々 感激していることでしょう 提供者に感謝です。
They are an amazing choir with a reduced group but with excellent sound. Good JOB!
Wonderfull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
¡¡OMG!!... I am speachless.
incredible performance !
cette musique vient du coeur et touche au coeur. selon le voeu de beethoven
Wonderfull and beautifull version.
This has become my favorite performance of his magnificent work. Bravissimi tutti! Gloria 9:18, Credo 26:23, Sanctus 45:58, Agnus 1:01:30.
"Dal Cuore, che possa arrivare ai Cuori...". Simply wonderful.
Amen.
wow ! Just amazing - so much better than those big choral societies !
Oh, that's so gorgeous... :)
So beautiful
Beethoven considérait sa grande missa solemnis comme sa meilleure composition (et il considérait son concerto pour violon comme le moins réussi).
Dans cette version de la missa solemnis, la composition apparaît en effet comme la plus puissante. Bien plus que sa
9ième symphonie:
Il n'y a pas de plus grand compliment aux musiciens et chef d'orchestre de cette excellente interprétation même.
La 9ième, sa grande prise en main seulement partiellement réussie dans l'histoire de la musique jusque-là.
Encore une fois, mes très grands compliments aux musiciens de cette performance spectaculaire.
Je suis entierement de votre avis.
Such a beautiful music, what a masterwork! A gate on the Heaven
great
Great performance!
So Good
I've been listening a lot to the Missa Solemnis and Bach's St. Matthew's passion lately. And for me this is the clearest almost glittering performance of this work I've heard. Bravo ! If you want something equally impressive, try Klemperer's St. Matthew's passion. Must say, that soprano was something else, so effortless and beautiful. The Agnus Deis Trumpets, hope they better now.
Perfect 10/10
A orquestra e o regente, o coral, os solistas... A excelência elevada ao mais alto nível Beethoveniano... Uma performance perfeita, uma gravação para guardar para as futuras gerações. Não existem mais palavras. Fica como a minha gravação preferida...
Wat een schoonheid
Splendide version !!
Tout est magnifique !!!
Un pur bonheur !!
I love the respect for the soloists part at Sanctus, many others always use the chorus instead of Beethoven's manuscript that specifies soloists for that part, the difference is so powerfull and notable when you follow the composer vision. Excellent interpretation of my favorite music.
marcraider According to Nicholas Marston, one of the authorities on Beethoven's manuscripts, there were a few authorised copies of the Missa Solemnis knocking around that were "corrected" separately by the composer so discrepancies emerged over time and there is no definitive version in fact. Please don't get me wrong I think the soloists here are absolutely superb, especially the ladies (I've met Carolyn Sampson and she is a delightful person in addition to her incredible singing talent) but kudos has to go to the amazing choir who, with far fewer singers than you'd normally use for this most difficult and demanding of works, pull off a tour de force!
@ ConstanzeWeber: Agree. This Chorus *is* amazing. They, the orchestra and Daniel Reuss are the stars.
Many thanks for your comment
Marcraider, begging for your pardon and the ones given from the other commentaries' people, all you are so wrong thinking about soloists and choruses... Beethoven never treated the human voice per se. He conceived it as an instrument more that belongs to the full orchestral palette. Nothing less, nothing more. So the chorus is a bunch of instrument more alike the violin section or so. That is why all his she's always were complaining about the extreme difficult parts given to them.
If I am seeing it correctly, there is no original indication by Beethoven to perform the Sanctus with soloists or with chorus (anywhere). On the manuscript there are just the four voices (together with the instruments) and nothing more. I guess, that is where all the problems start. His scores often look more like sketches than clean copies. You can have a look at the original manuscript here, which is kept at the State Library in Berlin:
resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB0001C9C700000117
Best performance on the U TUBE ..
The first violin needs to get a promotion!
Bravo!
Very good, a well balanced performance.
Exceptional! Thank you for this. Simply wonderful.
dank u nogmaals Avrotros!
This is amazing.
Lovely, am going to hear it in Liverpool on Saturday.
As always, Daniel Reuss delivers nothing less than the best! Kudos to all the excellent performers!
excellentee
Immer wieder sagenhaft toll!
Excelente versión, de las mejores que he oído.
Thank you 🙏 👍👍👍❤️
Sublime
Excellent interpretation.
beautiful!
Awesome!!!!
Reconozco que es una gran obra pero me deja la cabeza hecha un bombo (me suele pasar con Beethoven, soy muy sensible).
C'est vraiment très très beau ! Merci à toutes et tous…
-- Grande & belle Messe. --
I can't believe I have only just found this - what a performance! Also enjoyed the camera editing - watching the hornplayers changing crooks, that incredibly tall bass-player, those glimpses of the contra-bassoon...and the glorious sounds of what Beethoven actually wrote, rather than what some of those big-name maestri thought (or wished) he had...
Εξαιρετική απόδοση του έργου. Μπράβο σε όλους και ένα ιδιαίτερο μπράβο για τον βιολονίστα στο benedictus.
That Soprano is awesome.
第35分钟到45分钟最好听。多声部合唱尽显人声的魅力、旋律织体的丰富。
ate
¡¡¡El gran director Wilhem Furtwangler - uno de los más grandes del siglo pasado - retiró esta obra maestra de su repertorio, porque estaba convencido que nunca llegaría a transmitir la inmensa profundidad que Beethoven había volcado en su creación!!!. Si este genial director no lo logró, creo firmemente que tampoco lo hicieron los demás. Para llegar a escuchar la verdadera esencia de la obra, deberíamos reunirnos en el Paraíso, donde el Titán de la Música Universal la debe ejecutar para la Gloria de Dios.
What a mistake by him!
@@loganfruchtman953 una opinion, aun cuando furtwangler, es solo eso, una opinion. te sugiero ver la version Bernstein y amsterdam, no particularmente de mi gusto, pero toda le energia desplegada ahi es insuperable
Music never got higher. As high, yes - Palestrina, Mozart, Bach. But not higher. That is not possible.
Utterly correct. Amen.
@@fansofst.maximustheconfess8226 if i was forced to leave Earth with only one musical piece in my hand it would be Bach's Mass- this is good in parts but not on that level.
@@thevoiceofhumanitynetwork72 Yes and no. Bach's and Beethoven's masses, even though both liturgical, are widely different works. Bach's b-minor mass is a work, which had never been performed in this compilation during his lifetime, and which was not put together for any practical purpose or for a specific performance. It was a milestone work, which seeks to exemplarily conserve his art and his art of vocal writing (which had run totally out of fashion during the last decade of his life) for future generations. To show what is possible in music in the style of ending Baroque era. (The Art of the Fugue is also part of those "exemplary" works of his final years.)
With Beethoven the situation is completely different. Beethoven was a man powered by and since his childhood deeply corrupted by the luciferian ideas of the "French Revolution" and the so called "enlightenment" - just as the so called "Renaissance" a terrible deviation and mistake in (Western) European history. With the Missa solemnis - which is rightfully his greatest work (far greater and more important than the IX. Symphony), and he felt this so strongly that he had Stieler portray him famously in the 1821 portrait while composing the beginning of the Credo! With the Missa solemnis Beethoven had to engage in a huge inner fight and personal transformation, and this struggle, this transformative process can be felt viscerally hearing the music but also while performing it. This is precisely the very strange enigmatic aspect about this work: Beethoven had to overcome the demons of heroism and "enlightenment" and find/fight his way back to the One, true, tri-une God, so that he could eventually die in peace. This is the true meaning and holiness of the Missa Solemnis, a quality which makes it so special - and which would be utterly inconceiveable for Bach. Yes, the choral writing of the B-minor mass is much more flourishing and refined. But Bach's work is a lutheran-protestant "mass". Beethoven's work is part of a millenial tradition of Roman-Catholic mass compositions, and it is a Viennese work, and it is a decidedly symphonic work - a quality of coherence, which Bach's mass compilation cannot possibly possess. And Beethoven's ideal in choral writing in this case was not Bach, but the oratoric works of Händel. But Beethoven's Mass is incredibly modern! Far more risky and "daring" in scope as in detail than Bach's conception, while at the same time drawing directly form the past of the earliest phases of the "Renaissance". And it has great and highly complicated sections and movements! Both works form the pinnacle of Mass composition, each in its own right.
@@fansofst.maximustheconfess8226 Wow, thanks for the care and information you packed into your reply. I've listened to Bach's mass over 400 times and Beethoven's probably only 2 or 3 so far. So, respecting your opinion and knowledge on this point, I will certainly give it a few more listens to see if I can truly come to regard it as being on the same level as Bach's supreme achievement or even the Matthew Passion.
@@thevoiceofhumanitynetwork72 Well, in the end it doesn't matter though, because who are we mere mortals to judge? It took me quite a while to maybe understand Beethoven's mass myself, whereas I had been quite familiar with Bach's work, since I also had been part of performing it. Beethoven's mass, is just not being played that often because it's just so darn taxing on everybody. It is clear and has been acknowledged by almost every composer and musician (and by nobody less than Beethoven himself) after Bach's death, that JSB was the greatest composer and performer who ever lived and is the schoolmaster from whom every musician can learn everything about music to know and master. Does that invalidate anything else, e.g. Beethoven's opus magnum? In the end it doesn't matter and it would only be an expression of hubris to judge. Are we to "judge" and "compare" Mount Everest with Nanga Parbat or Montblanc? We are far too feeble and meek to actually do that in all ernest. As long as the music speaks to us and brings out the best in us, then it's worth listening to it and enjoying... ;)
Amazing. Listen Beethoven is always a pleasure. However, I heard it on an interpretation so exquisite with was this is a real privilege. I greatly appreciate the post. Congratulations to the channel and this exceptional orchestra.
40:48 Missa solemni Credo Amen, et vitam venturi saeculi, amen
El Credo de la Missa Solemnis de Beethoven es la parte más sublime de todas las misas.
26:22 Credo in unum Deum
27:23 Credo in unum Dominum
MY ORDERING WOODEN TONE BY WOODEN INSTRUMENTS , IT IS SUCCESSING BY THOSE FOR BRIGHTEN THE PERIODS LIKE TONE ON HIGH STAGE FOR SWEETY ELEGANT WITH CORT AIR . HOW? BEAUTIFUL !
C'est peut-être une constatation géographique qui explique un trait commun à plusieurs ensembles néerlandais. Censément on n'aime pas faire de vagues, et tout ce qui déborde semble dangereux à un pays à ras du niveau de la mer. Cette missa solemnis est jolie, bien tournée, précise et intéressante à écouter. Nous avons la lointaine part néerlandaise du compositeur sans sa part germanique principale. Cette missa solemnis ne se doit pas d'être seulement jolie. Beethoven n'avait que faire de composer du "joli". Il a accouché de l'éternel, du passionné, du tourmenté, de l'apaisé parfois, de l'universel, et du violent sûrement. Donc j'attendais un peu de cela et j'ai eu avec cette proposition de messe un aimable spectacle qui jamais ne décolle, ne déborde, ne vit vraiment. On a un peu l'équivalent ici d'un certain Bach belge dirigé par Philippe Herreweghe, bien chanté, bien joué, mais sans nerf et désespérément mou, souvent au bon tempo, mais mou.
Gran director musical, buena orquesta, coro digno, pero solistas mejorables: la soprano y contralto bien adaptadas, la contralto estupenda, pero la soprano en ocasiones demasiado fuerte. Tenor demasiado discreto, inaudible, ¿bajo? diría barítono, en esta misa hace falta un buen bajo solista. Violín solista magnifico.
Tutti: buen trabajo en general, pero hay parte donde haría falta más dinamismo y pasión realzando el significado del texto.
Sin duda de las mejores versiones por UA-cam.
Carolyn Sampson is perfect!
Carolyn Sampson 48:26
(Today: 15 March - Spain announced lock-down 16 March 2020.)
Oh! Shit! Oh-shit-oh-shit!
So majestic
베토벤 미사 솔렘니스 들었습니다 베네딕투스 거룩하십니다 거룩하신 하늘과 땅에 가득한 그 영광 높은 데서 호산나 바이올린 독주 끝내줍니다
sweethoven
Yes, especially the Benedictus with that solo violin and 6/8 meter.
Ok
1:20-1:30 sung with a single breath 😱 A beautiful interpretation, though pity David Wilson-Johnson is much below his best.
1:10:09 FeelsWeirdMan
Well, it's war, what did yer expect?
ADDING , METARIC HORN , I ORDERED SAME OLD STYLE ON THIS LINE UP, HOW? MR.BETHOVEEN, MAYBE SAY TO ME ,YOUR WONDERFUL IDEA MAKES BETTER RIALISTIC BETHOVEEN LONG TIME MISA TILL MORDERN PERIOD's STAGE. I HOPE GET GOOD THIS VIEWING PLUS SCORE TO ME FROM HIM AND THIS STAGE LADIES AND GENTLMAN WHO ARE ART SUPERIORS PROFESSIONAL SINGERS&ORCHESTRA . FOR EVERYBODY THANKS &AGNUS DAY THROUGH THIS MISSA SOLEMNIS STAGE SOUNDS.
24:27
Benedictus: 49:38
3:56 Wat was dat?
Swak kamerawerk.
I found it tepid and without momentum. This work, above all,
should not be religiously sheepish,
but spiritually valiant.
still better than those big bombastic monster-size interpretations...
I wonder if Beethoven specified the number of instruments.
Have always prefaired the wonderful d minor mass played on period instruments ,more gravitas.
« Je veux donc m'abandonner patiemment à toutes les vicissitudes et placer mon entière confiance uniquement en ton immuable bonté, ô Dieu ! Tienne, immuablement tienne doit se réjouir d'être oui mon âme. Sois mon rocher, ô Dieu, sois ma lumière, sois éternellement mon assurance ! » (Christian Sturm, recopié par Beethoven, 1818)
Au mois de mai 1818, Vincenz Hauschka est chargé par la Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde de Vienne de demander à son ami Beethoven de composer un oratorio sur un sujet héroïque. Beethoven accepte et, peu après son arrivée à Mödling où il poursuit sa convalescence, il lui écrit :
« Je n'ai pas de sujet autre que religieux, mais si vous en voulez un héroïque, je n'y vois pas d'inconvénient. Toutefois je crois que, pour un tel concours de peuple, il y aurait lieu d'y mêler un peu de sacré. »
- Beethoven, lettre à Vincenz Hauschka, Mödling,
Great apart from too much vibrato from the female soloists.
Nicht ganz so extatisch wie Gardiner,aber schon sehr gut...bescheuerte Bildführung
Again the soprano with opera vibrato in sacred music. WHY? It sounds ridiculous, especially since the alto sings with low vibrato. Although on second hearing, it's not as bad as many other recordings here on youtube.
beautiful voices but they need passion!
nomine padre, un spiritus sanctus* dickheads*
Would you like to take down that word 'n----rs'? You may have meant something innocent by it but it looks strange, indeed offensive.
sure *DickHed*
...pity that unpleasant timbre of the tenor, really pity !
Not too sure I prefer early music principles applied to composers as late as Beethoven. Take this far enough and only modern music should be performed on modern instruments.
Only performing modern music on modern instruments sounds like a good idea to me, a little radical, but one should be aware that when performed by out of period instruments, you are listening to a transcription whether or not you or the performers are aware.
These were instruments based on those from Beethoven's time. Beethoven is in no way modern in the context of instrument construction or performance practice. Sure, there were additions of keys to woodwinds from the Baroque era and other such modifications, but modern instruments as we know them were not a thing in Beethoven's era. Also, given the early recordings we have from the very early days of recorded music, it is plainly heard that the even the techniques of modern times were not the same as in the time of Mahler. For instance, Bruno Walter's recordings with the Vienna Phil (the last orchestra to move to constant vibrato in the 1940s!). As a postscript, if you want to hear an even more stellar performance of this work under the baton of Gardiner with his Orchestre Révolutionaire et Romantique. It is beyond sublime and they also use classic-period instruments and reconstructions from Beethoven's time.
I am revealing this personal opinion because I have heard 2 live performances of the Missa Solemnis and this splendid recording. I don't like the work. I think that it lacks solemnity and I see it as heavy vocal and choral hijinks. I think that it is overextended and I can't imagine what Beethoven had in mind when he composed the work.
Scott Johnson Almost my reaction when I first heard it, but (having revisited the work recently) I think it’s a terrific piece. It’s quite natural not to be moved by a particular work extolled by others, so I guess it just takes time to appreciate it. I used to hate certain operas which now I cannot live without (e.g., “Idomeneo”).
Mr. Johnson: I can understand you view of the Hyperbolic Beethoven. I find the Incidental Music to Egmont to be overbearing, but consider the coral music in Fidelio as a guide to the affect for overstating the case a bit, and it is very clear why Beethoven wrote this Mass. It is revealed in the trumpet solo in the Dona, which was muffed in this performance, this is a Battle Mass intended to memorialize the tragedy of the Wars of 1789-1815. The work was written at the time of the Congress of Viennia, or shortly after. It is a difficult work both for its textures and length, but it has many treasures. I would wonder if you feel the same way about the Ninth Symphony or the late piano sonatas and string quartets, they are apiece? I am especially fond of the two fugues Cum Sanctus and the one that ends the Credo, here.
@@bruce122046 "The work was written at the time of the Congress of Viennia, or shortly after. " Errr, not really as Congress of Vienna was beetween 1814-5 whereas this work was composer between 1819-23.
" It is revealed in the trumpet solo in the Dona, which was muffed in this performance, this is a Battle Mass intended to memorialize the tragedy of the Wars of 1789-1815." Again I've to differ although, of course, you are entitled to your own opinion: This trumpet call was for an inner war of Beethoven, an entirely personal affirmation. To me Agnus Dei of this work is one of the greatest prayers ever written by any composer as here, the composer, took a 1600 year old static text and managed to turn it into a 'personal' statement of his psychological turbulence of his last decade.
@@caginn Yes, that is correct, having just read the chapter in Thayer.
It grows on you, give it time. You need to hear it many times and become familiar with it to fully appreciate it.