LET'S TALK ABOUT "MY FRIEND DAHMER"
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- Опубліковано 9 жов 2024
- today we're talking about the movie that came out this weekend, My Friend Dahmer which exhibits the events that took place before Jeffrey Dahmer's 13 year rampage.
trailer:
• My Friend Dahmer Trail...
the making of a serial killer article:
www.psychology...
try the method I personally use for online counseling | www.tryonlinet...
psychopath vs. sociopath video:
• PSYCHOPATH VS. SOCIOPA...
stop romanticizing killers video:
• STOP ROMANTICIZING KIL...
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Wait, what? So we are to deal with Dahmer, who commited dehumanizing acts against his victims, by dehumanizing him? Seeing him as a person does not mean forgiving his murders. Rather, it allows us to acknowledge the factors that contributed to his particular pathology. Afterall, he wasn't born a killer, regardless of his genetics. Also, to totally misquote Kate Manne, the idea of Dahmer as a monster 'exonerates by caricature'. No, he is like us, a person made of flesh and bone. His 'evil' wasn't borne of from some malicious spiritual force. It was borne from indifference, from illness and from the banal. And while we cannot absolutely prevent those of us inclined of committing depravities, we might be able to protect others, or ourselves, by identifying warning signs.
Amen. I agree.
Well said. I agree with you 💯 👍.
It seems to me that the biggest problem you had with the movie was that it made you sympathize with Jeffrey Dahmer. The whole point of Derf's comic and of this movie is to be a psychological study of Jeffrey, about his descent into the person that he became. People, even serial killers are not black and white. If killers were only portrayed for their bad deeds they would be entirely one dimensional which A) doesn't make a good movie, and B) isn't accurate at all. I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling sympathy for teenage Jeff. Feeling sympathy for him because of his tormenting thoughts and shitty childhood doesn't equal condoning his actions. This movie is supposed to leave you conflicted and troubled; that's the point.
I also didn't really like your point about Ross Lynch portraying Jeffrey being somehow "toxic" because he's attractive and a likeable guy. Ross Lynch wasn't Ross Lynch in this movie. There was nothing about his portrayl of Jeffrey that reminded me of how he is in real life. He spent months studying Jeffrey for this role, and people would actually come down to the set who had went to school with Jeffrey and say things to Ross like, "Wow that's exactly how he walked." Portraying Ross as a cute disney star who happens to be playing a serial killer is not only irrelevant but somewhat insulting to Ross's acting abilities.
I wish this had been more of a straight forward movie review because you did say that you thought the movie was "phenomenal." I would be way more interested in hearing why you thought that than your worries about people sympathizing with Dahmer.
This is by no means a hate comment. I've been watching your channel for over a year now and I love your style and personality and I agree with most of your other reviews. I just wish you had made this one less of a politcal statement and more of a movie review.
africkso love this comment in all its entirety.
africkso I agree with everything you said.
Dude I agree with everything you stated. I watched it and I was thinking the same thing about your point on Ross Lynch’s acting (which was amazing) and how it was a little demeaning to say they shouldn’t have chosen him for being a Disney star
this was the best way to describe my entire thoughts of the history of dahmer and this movie thank you
thank you for the ross comments also if you get pics of him with the glasses next to jeff they look like twins so thats another reason he was cast
The actor looks EXACTLY like jeffery dahmer. Maybe that's why he was casted?
Not really
@@meow-rk9tc Bless, I dont think they look that similar either
@@graysonann9155 The nose?🤷🏽♀
it’s the dude from austin n ally
Exactly. Ross lynch looks nearly identical in costume to a school picture of Dahmer at the time
I'm fucking tired of people accusing the film "My Friend Dahmer" of attempting to "make viewers sympathize and forget what he did" the purpose of the film was to show how Jeffery became the murderer he was, it isn't trying to make a bad man look good, it's trying to show you that there is more then what the mass documentaries show you about Dahmer, nearly zero documentaries I have watched have shown what led up to Dahmer being the way he was. To attempt to accuse the film of trying to shed light on a demon of a human, is factually incorrect. There is no way you can every try to make him look like a decent person. He was a serial rapist, killer, etc. This movie is raising awareness to the events leading up to his murderous rampage. There is no inkling to show they're trying to "make us feel sympathy for Mr.killed and raped 17 young and older men" That just makes no sense.
This comment! Agree.
this video feels way more about people that already glorify criminals.. it's not a serious biopic per say either though it's someone's remake of a book from a friend.
I agree, I think that it's really less about the movie it's more about the people who will watch it and start to feel that way about him as she mentions in the video
It's like the newest joker movie he is a horrible character that kills people and the movie doesnt want you liking him but you feel sympathy
that’s not true this movie clearly humanizes him and sympathizes with him even the director said so
I'm glad they chose Ross to play Dahmer. I don't think anyone should choose not to cast a FORMER Disney star just based on the fact that they were on Disney before... People should be more accepting & let these actors grow. They shouldn't be expected to not try new & more challenging roles. Ross is very talented & I'm glad people who were ignorant before are finally starting to realize how talented he actually is. Also, the movie is really good. The acting, the way they didn't go overboard with the '70s thing. I really enjoyed it. It wasn't too much. About the Tumblr thing... There will always be people who sympathize with these killers, unfortunately. Whether there are movies about them or not. It's going to happen either way. The internet isn't going away. I'm just glad adults who aren't familiar with Ross gave the movie a chance & still don't feel bad for Dahmer after seeing it.
I think it is okay to sympathise with him and feel bad for him, I think we as humans should try to be able to do that for everyone. That being said, there is a huuuge difference between feeling bad for someone and "being in love with them". It is important for me to show sympathy towards everyone, but that does in no way exuse anything, and it doesnt make it more okay what he did.
StyleByJosie I agree, I think there should be sympathy for his upbringing and what happened to him but to also realize the horrific things he did. There should equal parts of sympathy and realization I guess.
Well then shouldn't we have sympathy for the people who did bad things to him?
I AM NOT GOOD AT DANCING We should, but that doesn’t mean we should be there best friend and love them to pieces because they also did horrible things
I agree🙏🙏🙏
Yes literally all serial killers have severe truama and we are allowed to feel sad for them bc if that but that doesn’t mean we think that justifies what they did at all
I usually don't respond to your videos but I'm honestly kind of disappointed that you felt this way. It feels as if you were already apprehensive about the movie because of all the idiotic serial killer fangirls and what the movie might do for them. I've read the graphic novel and it never felt that they were aiming for sympathy for Dahmer. If anything, it kind of showed the unique outlook of someone who wasn't close enough to want to excuse his actions like a family member or a friend nor a biographer who is preparing a story with a gruesome outcome; but rather a "stranger" who happened to interact with him daily before he snapped. His classmates were disturbed by him if anything and I believe in the novel there were other teens who were struggling as well but never took the route he did which is an important piece of the story. You always got a sense that there was something really wrong with Dahmer that had nothing to do with his family or drinking problems. And unfortunately this movie being made or not made isn't going to stop someone from sympathizing with him. Young teens who are into true crime for edgy reasons will find any reason or information to excuse him. It's a bit unfair to place so much responsibility on the movie because of tumblr fandoms who already have a reputation of being delusional.
Also, you don't want people to separate him from the murders yet you seem to want to separate him from the time he was semi-human. I think it's important for people to recognize that there was a time before the breaking point (and even during) for criminals where they had something resembling humanity and blended in with everyone else. It helps with the naivety some people have thinking evil comes in one stereotypical package.
I really recommend that you read the graphic novel. I know the movie probably left out and changed things for emotional sake but the graphic novel does a fantastic job offering a very blunt view of Dahmer from an outsiders perspective.
Agreee!!
Wow, I completely agree with this. Derf Backderf was not close with Jeffrey at all, and purposely distanced himself from him towards the end of their interactions. Love this comment.
"Also, you don't want people to separate him from the murders yet you seem to want to separate him from the time he was semi-human. I think it's important for people to recognize that there was a time before the breaking point (and even during) for criminals where they had something resembling humanity and blended in with everyone else. It helps with the naivety some people have thinking evil comes in one stereotypical package."
So well said. Serial killers are humans like the rest of us. Reinforcing the idea that they're some other breed, like an us-and-them dichotomy, is a naive and honestly pretty harmful way of thinking.
that's exactly what i wanted to say, i havent seen the movie yet but i bet its not sooo different from the graphic novel and i agree with you
I definitely agree that dehumanizing murderers even before they kill can be really harmful. This is why we don’t see signs, this is why we don’t start therapy early when there’s a chance to actually change people.
But why should it be forbidden to feel empathy for him? What it says for me is that even killers are human and it would bei too easy to say "oh he is a Monster, He should be locked away forever and There ist nothing anyone could do".
I think its important to understand and see how serial killers grew to be a killer bc psychology wise its important to understand and can help catch these behaviors in a possible future killer. It may help to curtail the person and stop them before its to late.
@@visitorzeta1669 But in that scenario you're less able to see the things that made him into a monster. They have every right to feel that way but let's be honest and say that it makes you less objective when looking at how a person can turn into a monster.
It's not about feeling sympathy or empathy for him, its rather we shouldn't glorify,justify or you know romanticize his actions especially for me it's triggering because I know how it feels when you loose your brother even when he doesn't deserve it. I know how it feels when nobody takes it seriously when a boy goes missing when he is gay , I know how it feels when justice is not yet served and you don't even know where your loved one is whether alive or not...
I respect your opinion and I hope you do as well.I am sorry if I offend you.
@@michaeljvm Well no one should imitate his actions obviously. They obviously point out what he did was wrong in the movie. A parent of one of the victims is not going to care what turned him into that or not. But regardless, he didn't come out of the womb like that. His parents most likely abused him.
I saw the movie almost 2 weeks ago and my only issue is that it isn't prefaced with the fact that he commits such horrible crimes as a "result". It is put in text on the screen at the end of the movie, but i don't think that really does it for me. I'm not afraid to say I thought it was a phenomenal movie- Ross and all the other actors were great- but it just lacked the seriousness of his crimes.
Ariana Kazansky I have not seen it but do they talk about mental illness? I grew up in an abusive home, with neglectful parents. I still had issues with them years after being adopted into a great family. Through all that, I'm a functioning adult. I think mental illness plays a role in how people develop from broken environments.
As if everyone who was ever abused just goes out and kills people 🙄
They don't analyze his behavior too much in the movie. Derf, the author of the memoir, was really only trying to capture his own memories of Dahmer. He was only vaguely aware of his mom's mental illness so the film only vaguely mentions it. Derf doesn't know what made Dahmer DAHMER so it's not in the book or movie. I would recommend the book because it's told from the perspective of Derf 20 or so years after Dahmer's death. So you get that hindsight perspective of "wow that was messed up now that I think of it and was clearly a sign he was criminally insane." The movie is filmed from the perspective of the teenagers without the adult, hindsight perspective
They didn't even say how horrific the crimes were, just that he "murdered" them, which I thought was very understated. I was very disappointed in the ending.
Ariana Kazansky question. How were you able to watch it? I’ve been checking all of the theatres near me and none of them are playing it
It’s good that you feel as though you need to help him in this movie. The idea is that we need to recognize that the killers are people who needed help, but didn’t receive it and became a monster. If people had payed more attention to him in the years shown, he might never have killed.
Atlas Winter chances are in high school he was even beyond help. Symptoms start to arise as children in the formative years when their learning about empathy and remorse. By the time he was in high school those are things he should've already had a grip on but nobody paid any attention to the early signs. He was a ticking time bomb and chances are what happened to him in high school was the catalyst for what he did but the symptoms of psychopathic tendencies were there from childhood. If his family hadn't been caught up in their own problems they could've seen this years earlier and gotten him the help he needed.
A completely agree and appreciate your comment!
This is why not everyone should be allowed to have kids. Jeffery's mother was extremely afraid of germs and wouldn't hold him as a baby or let anyone else touch him because she was worried he would get sick. Most people who don't experience any affection as a baby and into their toddler years would never learn how to feel empathy in the first place. Instead of just judging him, people should focus more on preventing people like him from existing and realizing where the problem is. (Also I know someone will probably come along and be all like, "BAD SEED BLAH BLAH BLAH, HE WAS EVIIIIIIIIIL" then whatever else, like, yeah I know I don't exactly know everything, but I've never heard of a serial killer who didn't have a bad childhood and I doubt that the stuff I mentioned had nothing at all to do with him becoming a serial killer)
Dezzy Cherie I agree with you that it was probably too late in high school. I disagree that the parents could have gotten him help, though. A very small percentage of sociopaths are able to be helped, and they have to be very motivated. Even then, they don’t actually develop empathy, but they can behave more like they have it. Many times, sociopaths use the therapy to help them pass themselves off as trustworthy people, so they can manipulate others more.
@@phuck8627 Jeffrey's father finally admitted that Jeffrey was sexually abused by a neighbor when he was only 8 years old. They did absolutely nothing about this. His Mom couldn't be bothered to attend Jeffrey's Graduation from High School. ☮️☮️
Even those it was Disney star who played a serial killer, I thought Ross Lynch did an AMAZING job. He’s an amazing actor and got everything on point.
Hey Sarah,
great video! I would love to hear your thoughts on We Need to Talk About Kevin... If you haven't seen it, I imagine it will be a great discussion point for you.
Love your channel so much!!
Agreed! That’s such a good movie. Very haunting and mindfucking.
Sarah!! Watch this movie!!
Sarah!! Please watch this movie and tell us what you think! I'm really curious.
That was such a good movie, the symbolism and acting is extraordinary
Ok I'm going to say just one thing. People here is saying "it's awkward to see a Disney star playing Jeffrey Dahmer". Just because Ross Lynch used to work in Disney, that doesn't mean that: A)He is a bad actor. B) he always have to work in shows for kids. Plus working on Disney doesn't make any difference. He has a carreeeeeer. He is not the character he used to play, you know?
I haven't seen the movie, but I wanted to comment on one of your points. I do think we should differentiate beetween the teen boy with a troubled upbringing and the serial killer. I understand, that they're the same person, but the teen boy hasn't made those horrific choices yet, he is just a troubled, probably ill boy, in need of help. I think he only becomes the monster after he commits those crimes. And yes, now we know, that he had done terrible things, but i don't think that we shouldn't feel empathy for him. Sure, don't forget the victims, and of course theirs is a more upsetting tragedy (i think), but the teen boy, who didn't yet commit those crimes still has the possibility of not committing them. I hope this makes sense.
kraszkabee but it should of been part of the story. Because nothing changed he still became that killer
kraszkabee of course he did, because he had no help. He had the possibility of not committing the crimes IF he had gotten the help he needed.
No. Are u not a version of the person I were at 16, at 12, at 2? Everyone only gets to be one person. Hopefully an evolving, growing version of their best selves but nevertheless. If u scratch the psyche of even very old people, I will be greeted with a version of who they were in kindergarten. Personality is a spectrum but also a continuum, not something you can take on and off like a raincoat.
christimalia no your fate is not sealed from the time you are two. That kind of comment makes it seem like help is worthless because we are all going to turn out how we are destined to be. Access to mental health is important. Sure this happened in the past and all the what if’s can’t change what happened, but it can change other people who show similar signs. Access to mental health saves lives.
There are psychopaths and sociopaths that never killed anyone during their lifetime. Our upbringing and enviroment affect our behaviour a lot. Help provided doesn't cure anyone from being psychopath, but it can prevent them from becoming murderer. That's why it's important that we have the ability to react as early as possible when a child starts to show signs of psychopathy or sociopathy. We can't start judging people based on their genetics or mental illnesses if that person hasn't done anything illegal, but we can provide help needed so that those people don't become monsters. Of course there are those who are beyond our reach, but that doesn't mean we should give up on minimizing the risks.
I really prefer the framework of "and" instead of "but." He was a boy who experienced a difficult childhood, AND he committed horrible crimes. You're right, it is the same person. I work in teen counseling, and many kids I see each day have experienced horrible traumas. AND they have committed some horrible acts during high school. It's both.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I have read the graphic novel. I don't think it's a big deal. Nobody is forgetting what he did. It's just interesting to see what happened before. Also, I think a little sympathy is okay. It doesn't excuse what he did, but maybe if sympathy was given to the next guy like him before he goes off the deep end, things might turn out differently.
Allison Lawson it's interesting dicussion bc would things be different? Somebody that doesn't feel empathy would it change the story? I would be curious to know.
I agree, perhaps if he had been treated differently and received another kind of help early on, some (maybe all, i don't know) of his crimes could have been prevented? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to criminalize the boy who had not yet committed the malicious acts yet, and it definitely seems counter productive to assume it was already too late for him. But I also have not seen the movie yet so I guess I can't make any conclusions, this is just my opinion ahead of time.
As a criminal psychology uni student (currently doing an essay on him. Let me tell you, he was a complicated guy damn) problems all started with his unstable home and feeling neglected and bcs of his horrendous thoughts he isolated himself plus he could have suffered from antisocial personality disorder, idk if sympathy would have changed anything bcs of his lack of social development, but tbh in the end he didnt know how to deal with loneliness and his own thoughts and it drove him over the edge and then he couldn't stop cuz it gave him satisfaction as well as control over a situation which he felt he never had as a child. Sorry I went technical with this 😂😂😂
Ana, I have to firmly disagree with you. Unstable homes and untreated personality disorders do not 'cause' people to become serial killers. Given your expertise you would know that for instance Ted Bundy came from a very stable, happy and supportive home - and that plenty of people go through life with untreated personality disorders without then resorting to rape, murder and cannibalism. People who do the things Dahmer did are not produced by circumstance, and there is still so much biochemical research ongoing into this that I am surprised a criminal psychology class would encourage you to oversimplify it like that, to be perfectly honest.
Allison Lawson I agree so much on what you said, that we should show sympathy before someone else like him goes off to the deep end.
Haven’t seen the movie yet, but I don’t think that humanizing Jeffrey Dahmer is necessarily a bad thing, because he was human, serial killer or not. It wasn’t his fault that he lacked empathy. Nothing excuses his choices later in life, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be able to sympathize with the tough times he went through in his early years. That being said, if I had lost a family member the way that his victims families did, I would have absolutely no interest in this movie.
I think that the community that is obsessed with serial killers will definitely love this movie, but I don’t know if it’s going to do that much. They’re gonna obsess over them no matter what. I know a girl that was seriously upset that Charles Manson died ( I know he doesn’t fall into that category but he’s still scum). I find them extremely interesting but I would never be sad that one died. I don’t really get it, is it like trendy or something?? Do they think it’s edgy to love bad people?
Mkla Haze I think the movie only telling the teen story just allows us to see him as two different people. They should of included more maybe his first killing so that it stops some sympathy.
I think that's exactly what they think...that it makes them cool and edgy. I think it's disgusting
KT I think that would have been a great idea. I don’t think the sympathy is the problem, it’s the idea that they are two separate people.
Victoria Rose I honestly just don’t understand that idea at all.. like, how does idolizing someone who doesn’t value human life edgy and cool???
It's because the human brain is fascinating, even in it's worse moments. This is coming from someone who is mentally ill. I don't condone crimes, and I don't personally feel sad if someone like Charles Manson dies. I do understand the interest in the mentally ill, humans tend to like the unknown. Personally, what fascinates me in Jeffrey Dahmer is his last interviews. He made it clear that he didn't feel any empathy for his victims at the time, but he showed remorse for what he's done. What he did wasn't wrong in his mind when he did it, but he was still able to process how and why it was wrong in the interviews.
I was a very featured extra in "My Friend Dahmer" with one line and I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I'm the one smiling right next to him in yearbook photo and all through out film doing random things lol. This was one of the best reviews I've watched so far! How youre explaining is exactly how Marc wanted his film to be portrayed :)
Tara Olivia Do you know when this will be released?
kansasgirl73 I'm honestly not sure but I'm really hoping for a dvd release❤
That’s really cool that you gotten a chance to be apart of such a memorable movie.
I just watched MFD (I know.. holidays were busy what can I say) and as someone who was very familiar with his story as an adult, I appreciated the telling of the story - before the story.
My head was processing things on many levels as I watched. How his friends felt upon realizing they in one way or another helped shape Dahmer into who he was as an adult. The brother who changed his name and vanished. Great film.
Hope to see you onscreen again soon Tara!
I don't get why sympathy or empathy for ANYONE is EVER a bad thing. Its not like what sociopaths and psychopaths have is catchy, if we feel for them we aren't going to become them. A person can even love a person whos done bad things, they don't have to love them and no one has to sympathize or empathize with anyone ever, but if you do, even if its a bad person what HARM does it cause? Can someone explain?
idk man it's hard to sympathize with a guy who raped, mutilated, murdered and cannibalized 17 people.
Leena A. its a sign of maturity to be able to have sympathy for EVERYONE. i dont know much about this movie or his "fangirls" (didnt know that was a thing. yucky) but to act like serial killers arent humans like the rest of us, actually makes matters worse and can give them more credit than they deserve. i'm part jewish and my family fled germany many years ago, but i can still forgive all the people who did such horrible things to my people and say that YES, THEY COMMITTED ATROCITIES. AND YES, THEY ARE PEOPLE. because you know what happens otherwise? you let them ruin your life, you let them poison your heart. now this situation is a bit different since we're not direct victims of Jeffrey Dahmer, but i think the basic idea holds true all the same. at some point, you will have to learn how to forgive and how to look at everyone as a human being, no matter what theyve done.
Thanks for your reply Kamron, it made me think. If we don't acknowledge that people who do horrible things are people like anyone else we can't really learn much from the situation. I mean a lot of people are messed up in a million different ways but they are still just people, there are no real monsters. Even psychopaths are just people born with a different type of brain and if you or I were born that way we might be in the same boat. Then it gets into choices, oh boy, a lot to think about. Oh and by the way Leena thanks for the salt ;)
cripwhaa
I agree. I don’t think feeling sympathy for a mentally ill/diseased individual will cause you to dislike them any less. It’s a tragic and horrible thing that people decide to rape and murder. I was sexually assaulted by an ex boyfriend, raped by another, and raped continually by a parental figure. Though I do not like these people, nor do I associate with them, I sympathize with the pain that they must go through that drives them to get into such a horrid mentality. One must be twisted beyond belief and deeply tormented to hurt others like that. You can sympathize and feel bad for their struggles, but this does not equate to forgiveness and acceptance.
I actually disagree... I think we *can* sympathise with people who have done evil things. This does not mean condoning or forgiving the acts themselves, but rather the person. I do not believe that humans are inherently evil, but rather that we choose to do cruel and evil things. We create a very thin line when we decide to dictate who is deserving of mercy and who is not. This mentality can even justify evil doing. If someone tortures, abuses, rapes or kills an evil person it does not suddenly become an honourable deed - it is morally corrupt and evil.
Everyone is deserving of mercy and empathy. It is possible to forgive the man without forgetting or forgiving the deeds. And we should not forget that everyone is redeemable. Everyone has the ability to rehabilitate, but that does not mean they will... (Because of factors like free-will and choice) I understand why this is controversial subject, through - especially when we think of the families of the victims who are absolutely deserving of legal justice and empathy. You can sympathise with the criminal even as you punish them for their wrong doings. The crimes must be punished, but the man may be forgiven.
Obviously, this is my opinion and everyone else is entitled to their own.
What about s*xual ab*se of a child? We shouldn't sympathise with people who do that? You got your answer. People who do that most often let the victim live. You guys sympathise a ch*ld murderer. (There was one child in his victims.)
YM S you can sympathize a person and what they have been through and simultaneously not condone what they have done.
@@theeepidural6144 That's where the difference between empathy and sympathy comes in. Did I mistake those two? Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@yms4355 if theres a horrible murderer and they were beaten as a child you can feel sympathy for that such as feeling sympathy for dahmer being bullied at school and neglected at home but even tho that happened even if you have sympathy for them you cant forget the horrible things they've done
You approached this in a very good way. Also, mad respect to Ross Lynch. Learning he took on the role made me see him in a different way; it seems like he actually cares about the art of acting/cinema. From silly roles on Disney Channel to portraying Jeffrey Dahmer - that sounds like someone who's serious about acting
It's heavily refreshing to see Ross take on a role like this. I used to watch Austin and Ally when I was younger and it is different now for sure. He literally went from a cookie cutter, upbeat pop singer to a sadistic, psychotic blood thirsty serial killer. This makes me so eager to see what else Ross has in store!
i couldn't stop looking at how nice your nails are in this video
Isabella R. Sameeee 😂
i think that there was an article a few days back by either cosmopolitan or buzzfeed that was titled something like "the hottest actors playing serial killers" that essentially invite the romanticization of serial killers and it was just really confusing and uncomfortable taking a very cosmetic look at people who have done horrible things to people and have lead horrible lives
I don't understand the fear behind empathizing and sympathizing with murderers. They are the product of the society we create and only when we understand them can we prevent their creation through external factors
I think when you start working IN the field you talk about, you will change your thoughts. It's not wrong to feel empathy, it's about being an aware practioner who can reflect on this feeling. (From experience, not being rude)
Preach
That’s your opinion lol
aiwxo I’ll never understand why commenters like you don’t realize youre still rude, a disclaimer doesn’t mean anything if you’re oddly patronizing
Kaitlyn M You are a stupid blind sheep. It is not an opinion it is actual fact. Actually bring something to the discussion not "that's just your opinion lol". It is not subjective what he said is very objective. It is not wrong to empathize with people like that. In order to help and understand them you have to be able to empathize with them. God people like you piss me off.
I think she knows it's okay to empathize but it's also important to be able to set yourself apart and not be too emotionally attached.
Don't be too hard on anyone for what they've done, but excuses shouldn't be given too often or they will never realize what the weight of what they are doing is.
I felt odd that they chose a fairly well known Disney actor for this role, just made me feel uncomfortable? I don't know, however, I'm personally curious to see how he portrayed this character. I'm very glad I watched this before going into the movie because I feel that I would at times sympathise with his character, and not think of the people I really should sympathise for. Thank you so much for your insight
This may not be accurate, but it could be a subtle message saying, "Anyone could become this?" I was reading a post the other day about Netflix's Death Note, and how they made Light this shady person when in the anime and the manga, he's a straight A's, charming, and likable character. It's the idea that maybe America (as a whole) isn't comfortable with the idea that a well-liked person can do horrible things? I guess it's more of a reversed order for My Friend Dahmer, though...
Ross Lynch was cast because despite being a disney actor, he NAILED teen Dahmer. Derf said he couldnt talk to him for very long because it made him so uncomfortable how close he resembled Dahmer. Unfortunately, Ross Lynch draws a younger crowd. It's a shame because it isn't the actor's fault and the director casted the best person for the job.
Brittany Rees Ooh, yes! Thank you for reminding me about that! I had forgotten. From what I can tell, he really did nail it. I definitely agree with everything you said.
Yeah and you can tell from the comments on the trailer that the audience they are attracting to this project are really young girls. Which makes this all the more concerning.
I think after leaving disney he really wanted to get rid of the disney image so he immediately took this role
On every Dahmer video that I've seen, I always have to mention a small story.
My dad used to be a pizza delivery guy. He had to deliver a pizza to Dahmer's apartment. Nobody was "there". So he gave the pizza away to a neighbor. To this day, my dad can still recount the smell that came from Dahmer's place. He thought the smell was soo bad, that he wondered why nobody reported it.
I mention this story, because I feel like I could have lost my dad, and I feel relief that I didn't. I don't think my dad realizes how close he was to a murderer. Like, my dad might not be here today. But it just so happens, that my dad is white. Not trying to be racist or anything, but.....you get my drift. Maybe he saw my dad's wedding ring? Maybe Dahmer wasn't actually there? All I know is, my dad was far too close for comfort.
I'm sorry if I seem coldhearted for saying all this, I truly feel sorry for the victims and families.
I WAS LITERALLY GOING TO ASK YOU TO DO THIS YES I'M SO EXCITED
hey Sarah, i would like to make note on the fact that this film and the graphic novel it is based on comes from his closest friend from his teenage years. although you touched on this, i am unsure you understand that the film is an almost 100% exact retelling of the graphic novel and is recounted through Derf’s point of view. It is understandable that there is a sense of empathy or sympathy towards Dahmer’s story as it was written by someone close to him, and reflects Derf’s emotions and opinions when looking back on his friend, and i could believe that no matter the circumstance you would still have an itching feeling of sympathy for your friend. And by no means does this apply to anyone who has watched the film, i am just addressing it by the fact that the film is portrayed through Derf’s perspective of how he knew Dahmer. Another thing to add which may interest you is a line that comes directly from Derf at the beginning of the graphic novel stating ‘it’s my belief that Dahmer didn’t have to wind up a monster, that all those people didn’t have to die horribly, if only the adults in his life hasn’t been so....clueless...once Dahmer kills however-and i can’t stress this enough - my sympathy for him ends’.
It’s always difficult for me to hear murderer’s life stories. They almost always have a history of child abuse, which I was also a victim of, so it does make me empathise with them a lot and I understand where their thoughts and emotions come from because of my own history. What I understood over the years, is how important the events in an individual’s childhood are on their developing brain. This is why it’s important to do anything in our power to help children in those situations (although yes there are many other factors involved and just because you were abused doesn’t mean you’ll become a killer). To be honest, I think it’s okay to have the feelings of sympathy when hearing those stories because we are human and if your brain is functioning how it should be, sympathy is only natural to happen. However, we do need to remember what this led to and the people that lost their lives in the process and we need to be able to separate those two feelings but not the murderer.
Regarding the tumblr community, I think anything will feed them at this point. If they want to sympathise with the killer, they don’t need to be made to do so because they’ll look for things that may not even exist.
I'm scared that stupid naive teenagers will try to help these people instead of telling adults or the police and end up like that nurse in Patch Adams. If someone looks creepy or says or does weird creepy things you MUST TELL PEOPLE like teachers, parents or counsellors. You can't "fix" a psychopath with affection and friendship.
I've read the book, and on the back in the Notes section, it said that one of Dahmer's friends believed that he could've been "saved" had they been lovers! Well, he probably forgot that it was the '70s, and everyone kept their sexualities under wraps. Sad to see how even people Dahmer knew carried that logic.
I am actually from the town Dahmer is from, and I went to the same high school that is portrayed in the film, as did both of my parents and the majority of people who currently still live here. One of my dad's best friends graduated with Dahmer and knew him decently well in middle school/early high school. He told me he had zero interest in seeing the film and disagreed that they would make a movie about such a horrific person. However on the other side of things, I was definitely very excited for the film because it humanizes Dahmer. I've grown up hearing all about him in my town and it never really felt real until I got to sit down and see images that were meant to look like my high school (they weren't allowed to film there lol) as well as the street he lived on that I've driven down a million times. For me and for some of the people here, it really put into perspective the atrocities he's committed and just how close to home all of it really is.
Beth Gillette Idk where he was from, but I assume Milwaukee? I drive past his old apt bldg and the place he worked all the time and have wondered if watching the movie may be interesting if only to see how the neighborhood is portrayed. I only know that he lived here as an adult, though. I'm curious to Google where he was actually raised now.
I don't think the stories should be separated because despite how tempting it is to the think of them as actual monsters, they are human (regardless of how monstrous their acts are). There are so many factors leading into why serial killers do what they do and I think the most interesting part is seeing the things they went through that might be relateble. How come people can experience similar things yet one ends up being capable of horrific crimes? What is the difference between those two?
I followed his story after he was caught. I was a junior in high school when he was murdered. It was a crazy time to see all that going on. I watched his trial and knew he was guilty. The worst part was the one where the 15 year old was taken back to his house after escaping. So so so sad.
Your skin looks so good
I have mixed feelings about the review, but one thing I will comment on is that the director was going for the "replace a serial killer with a cute guy" approach. I believe that Ross was picked because he A) had the talent for the role, and B) genuinely looked like Dahmer. Derf was on set for parts of the filming and actually told the director that he didn't want to talk to Ross because it was like seeing Jeffery in the flesh again. And Ross didn't take it as a light hearted way, he completely secluded himself from fellow cast and crew. He said he brought himself to a really lonely, scary place. I don't think the movie was meant to make you feel an overwhelming amount of sympathy or empathy for what he had done, just a reminder that evil can be born and slowly brought out by the pressures of the world we live in.
Exactly. He did an awesome job and really looked like him. I didn't know Ross before, but his acting was great!
Just looked up the theaters that are playing this near me and thankfully theres lots of showings until december! I cant wait to check it out, im SO nosey about these peoples pasts!
So glad I saw your review before I watch this film because I agree with you 100% that if people sympathize or empathize with him, it needs to be redirected to his victims. No matter what we all go through in our lives we can take it and let it propel us toward good or evil and we all have a choice. We shouldn't forget that he chose evil and his victims are the ones who deserve our sympathy.
If a tiger escaped from the zoo and went on a rampage, killing multiple people, and was then put down by the authorities... Would you feel bad for the tiger? Or just the victims? The tiger is a victim of his biology and circumstances, just like a psychopath is a victim of his biology and circumstances. Think about it that way.
honestly, i don't agree with a lot of what you said. feeling sympathy and empathy for someone does not excuse what they've done, nor does it mean you thik what dahmer did is okay. dahmer was a sick individual, he had many illnesses and traumatic experiences that lead him to do what he did. it wasn't a choice - in my opinion, it's something people like him are either programmed with from birth or conditioned into. what happened to him is horrifying, he grew up sick and lived a sick life. because he had conditions and illnesses that made him think a certain way and act a certain way does not get rid of his humanity. it isn't like he decided to murder 17 people because he thought it was right and the best thing to do. of course, what he did is horrific and disgusting. but if we treat people like dahmer as if they were beyond the point of no return, that even in adolescence they are less than human and unworthy, it is only going to make things worse.
i'm a guy who's struggled with psychopathic tendencies my entire life - something i've gotten professional help for. being someone who sees myself in dahmer, and sees the potential that one day i will grow into that, having people treat him as below human doesn't encourage me to seek out a healthy life. when you say dehumanizing things - not just at you specifically but everyone - about specific people, you're not just attacking that person. i hope my tangent made sense.
- dejin
Regardless of his mental state, I promise you there was a choice, and that some amount of forethought and planning was involved.
I'm afraid I'm somewhat with you here. I hate seeing/hearing people say that the film "apologizes" or "justifies" his crimes. It's not seeking sympathy or empathy. And I hate, above all else, when people say they shouldn't "humanize" criminals like Dahmer. I mean, last time I checked, even with their deplorable acts against others, they were/are human. I'd figure someone who is studying psychology would understand that, and understand why would some people, despite their own disgust in the action itself, sympathize with him. It's basic human nature, to sympathize and empathize. The film is not "promoting" Jeffrey, it's merely based on a book written by a friend (Derf) of his (Dahmer) and his experiences with him. Derf himself asks not to empathize/sympathize with him, but to pity him. I do disagree with you on him not having a choice to his actions, though. He did have a choice. Unfortunately, he chose to murder/rape/cannibalize people. Furthermore, I think (like Sarah) that people shouldn't separate his crimes from who he was. It's not fair/right/respectful to the victims. But because they are focusing on both, it is OK to sympathize as a way to understand the human behind the monstrous acts. Surely, many teens go through rough childhoods and their home lives aren't the best. But not all teens have fantasies of laying beside dead bodies nor would they find comfort in that. Dahmer did. That was part of his "sickness", if you will. And while he did not feel remorse for his victims, he did feel bad for those related to them and had to suffer in connection to what he did. To sympathize with him does not make someone a terrible person, it only makes you human. Even the guy who got the confession out of him when he was arrested said he felt bad for him, but he also felt bad that he felt bad. I think that's the usual conflict people feel (that's the key word to people being easily "fired up" by the film or by seeing people sympathize with him, they are Conflicted). They can't help sympathizing with him, though they don't want to. I think this might have to do with the fact that it is much easier, a lot more comfortable, to write people like Dahmer off by calling them "monsters." With that it's easier to dehumanize them (ironically enough) and not deal with the fact that they were/are very human. Anyway, I understand where you're coming from. It's weird to see ads on TV and online where people promote that it is okay to say you suffer from mental illness or some kind of chemical imbalance. Yet, it's not okay to say someone can have these "dark" fantasies and urges. It's still part of the human condition, and it's still part of promoting mental health. I don't see why the fact that Dahmer committed crimes made him less human (it didn't). Personally, I agree with Sarah on one thing. I have seen the kind of fanaticism that can lead to toxic fixations like those on Tumblr, I have seen those posts and people. I find that kind of thing is just as sick as those who choose to negate Dahmer's humanity. Romanticizing crimes and those who commit crimes is wrong. It needs to stop. I don't understand that myself. But it is okay to sympathize with a sick kid.
There has been proof that if symptoms are caught early they can be helped. There is a story about a little girl named Beth who was adopted very young from a broken home and showed signs of psychopathic tendencies from a young age they began working with her when she was still very young and she grew up to be a good person even became a nurse.
Coming from a psych background as well, I had the same thoughts about this movie as you do. I am apprehensive to see it but still tempted to go. I think you said it perfectly when you said that the sympathy we feel for the character should be redirected to the victims. Hopefully the Tumblr community understands that.
Please watch the TED Talk "Have You Ever Met a Monster?" by Amy Herdy. She talks about a similar case as Dahmers and might add an interesting point or two to your thought process.
I guess the point of the movie it's to make you realize that anyone could be the danger: your neighbor, someone in your family, even someone you might sympathize with might end up being the dangerous one. So don't judge but be aware of your surroundings and interactions.
I totally get your fear, BUT we can't just not make movies like this just because Tumblr will romanticize it. People would romanticize him (and have) no matter how he's portrayed. I still don't see anything wrong with plainly sympathizing with teenage Dahmer. Sure, we aren't looking at different people but personally, I sympathize with the side of Dahmer we see in this movie because I, like most people, have gone through some rough shit in school. That however, does not mean that I am okay with how he chose to "handle" that trauma, if you will. This is why most sane people feel conflicted about their sympathy (as did I after watching this film) because nobody if forgetting the monster he became which is why I think having sympathy for specifically this part of his life is fine. So long as we don't forget what he went on to do (which this film also puts emphasis on, most likely for the very purpose of reminding people not to get too sympathetic) I think it's okay. I also don't think that Ross Lynch shouldn't have been cast just because he was a "disney star" or conventionally attractive. People who knew Dahmer, including the author of the book this is based on, thought he acted and looked so much like how he remembered Dahmer that he had to get Ross to take off the glasses anytime they spoke cause he was too freaked out. Clearly Ross was the best choice for getting an accurate portrayal of what Dahmer was like. Also, keep in mind that Derf wrote this based on how he saw Dahmer in school. He himself said he never felt in danger around Dahmer and that's why the film comes off that way. I think that saying this movie maybe shouldn't have been made is wrong. Derf has every right to tell his story of what this was like for him and how HE saw Dahmer back when he knew him.
Or make the Dahmer movie about how racial and homophobic prejudice of the police force at the time assisted him in several of the killings and let them go for as long as they did.
Thank you for this video, and in a very timely fashion. I love the horror community for many, many reasons, and I am very active on social media within that community, but I did unfollow several people yesterday after, they were posting "RIP Charlie", and/or flowery adoration, quoting him, etc. It's a fine, fine line...
As a criminologist you have to remember that serial killers don't make bad choices, they just can't stop themselves. A perfect example is shown in the TV show Dexter.
I think as humans we struggle with the concept of feeling sympathy and empathy for a person's circumstances and not equating that to acceptance or excusal of their behavior. It is totally fine and acceptable to empathize with teenage Jeffery Dahmer and the circumstances in which he was raised, but acknowledge the horrific and inexcusable actions of adult Jeffrey Dahmer; this in no way makes any person flawed.
I saw this movie recently as well and had similar thoughts to yours. I loved how they didn't play up the story that had "already been told" by making a gory slasher film. As someone who appreciates a good origin story, I could see where they were going with this, but I worried a lot about those in the audience watching this movie who weren't aware of the horror and tragedy he brought to so many people's lives.
My mind immediately thought of the Tumblr community and how toxic it can be, especially regarding sympathy for serial killers.
As someone who is currently seeking a career in the mental health field (just started my master's program to get my LMFT), I was touched at the tragedy that Dahmer suffered early in his life, but that tragedy is NOT an excuse for his behaviors. If anything, it's a way for us to further our own understanding and improve the system that failed him so that it doesn't happen again.
Great video! Glad to hear your thoughts on it! :)
I get what you mean, but I think it's not necessarily a separation of Dahmer's "stories," I think it's more like his crimes are the backdrop of the story, and adds to the overall purpose of the film. Everyone knows Dahmer is one of the creepiest/monsterous serial killers on the list, and so to watch a sympathetic/empathetic film about him is truly eerie and unsettling. I think the audience is supposed to feel the discomfort you're feeling in this video about it. They're supposed to feel horrified that they could relate with a killer on any level. But humans are complex, even the really nasty ones. And you CAN have an empathetic, sympathetic movie about a monster, because before he was a monster, he was a troubled kid. We're all humans. Some of us, unfortunately, kill.
idk.
I think this movie has several "side effects" to viewers, I didn't even think to discuss that in my video, I just talked about the cinematography, acting, facts, ect. I didn't even think about this approach & knowing you, I'm so glad you made this video.
I've seen A LOT of Dahmer documentaries, probably all of them, but I am in no means "In love" with him, I'm actually mortified. I think living within like less than 3 hours from his home in Ohio is what made me more drawn to him than other serial killers. I often find myself watching those documentaries a lot, I love the horror genre, but nothing will beat the chills & disgust you can get from sick, true stories. I haven't felt as scared from watching a scary movie as I have from watching these types of documentaries.
I was SO EXCITED for this movie, like really, & I think that it was done extremely well & accurate, but a little "too well" in the sense that it will make people go through a roller coaster of emotions, especially for those who somehow don't know Dahmer, I'm kind of mad how they blandly said in the ending cards "Dahmer murdered 17 young men", because it was far more than "just murder". It's definitely not what some people expected, they wanted gore & guts galore & were upset to get this, but I honestly can't say if this version or if the bloody version would have different effects on the audience...what would be more "triggering" I suppose.
But you bring up a fantastic point with the tumblr accounts, however, you can't blame Ross Lynch (I know you said it wasn't his fault, so I am agreeing) & you also can't deny he did an astounding job portraying his role as Dahmer.
Also, what do you feel about it being filmed in Dahmer's actual home in Bath, OH? Do you think that was appropriate, did it add any emotions for you? Because it made me so, chilled, & uncomfortable...but that's what made it so "scary".
Sarah, thanks for this video!!!
Honestly what I mostly got out of this movie was just how good of an actor Ross Lynch actually is. I was really proud and surprised to see him do a such a phenomenal job in this more serious role after being a silly (imo) Disney star. Good for him I'm sure he has a future ahead of him.
My friend went to high school with the guy who wrote the book and they're still really good friends. And he says that the book wasn't to sympathize. It was to show people that this could be ANYONE and you need to recognize when something isn't right. He had an inkling that Dahmer did something wrong, but he didn't have any solid proof so he didn't say anything. It's not for sympathy/empathy--it's for awareness.
I don't think the movie is trying to make you forget what he did or think it doesn't matter because he had a crappy past to blame for it. He did terrible things in the city I am born and raised in. I live twenty minutes from where Dahmer lived and committed the murders. My friend's mom actually gave up being a detective after she was on the Dahmer case because she had to carry buckets of human remains out of the house after they arrested him and it scarred her for life. With that said, I think this movie is meant to be a testament that there's more than what meets the eye. It's saying to be careful of what you say and do because you don't know what's going on with people--mentally, physically, familialy (spellcheck???). Yes, the movie wants you to sympathize with Dahmer but not because it wants you to forget everything he had done. It's because it wants you to think and take note of how easily the events of someone's life can fuel something psychological like this.
Edit: I don't think having a "Disney Star" cast as Jeffrey Dahmer should even be a discussable "issue". Ross Lynch decided to move on from Disney a while ago for more serious work. This is that serious work. He was chosen because he's a great actor and because, in my opinion, he looks pretty darn similar to Jeffrey Dahmer in costume and that is a huge factor these days. That said, the movie didn't humanize Dahmer because he's already a human. I know the definition of "humanity" regards to brotherly love and kindness but it is simply not that black and white. Humanity also means pertaining to human nature and part of the human nature is the pain and the anger and the violence; but people like to sugar coat that in order to be "optimistic". There is no excuse for what Dahmer did but he was still a human being dealing with human emotions fueled by his human mental disease. Also, to adjust my statement from before, the movie is not trying to direct the sympathy away from his victims. It is telling his story of his life leading up to the horrific acts. Even so, serial killer or not, it is okay to have a little sympathy for him. It is okay to wonder if someone had been there to pay closer attention to Dahmer and make sure he got the help he needed would have changed the course of his life. This movie is a much needed testament to the reality of mental illness and its correlation with violent acts. It's a testament to how an oppressive environment can attribute to a person's mental status. This movie got me thinking and for that I applaud it.
My two cents:
I think it's okay to sympathize with killers, they are human, they're humans, they aren't just faceless monsters. But that doesn't mean we forget what they did, they are and should be held responsible.
Killers have a hard time sympathizing with people. We need to be better than that, we need to sympathize and empathize so we can become better people.
In the graphic novel, Derf specifically states that he thinks that the adults in Dahmer’s life let him down and that they helped contribute to him ultimately not being able to cope with his illness. I’m not excusing him by no means, I just wanted to say why the graphic novel had been written in the first place. The director saying that it was about him falling through the cracks is generally what the point was supposed to be about. I do think that someone had a good point in the comments here when they said that we as the audience are the ones that find ourselves feeling empathy-this is incredibly interesting when you think about the involuntary act of feeling empathy here, especially if the movie crew and cast tried to put this film in a more factual light. Anyway, I mostly wanted to say that I also had the uneasy feeling that this could be glorification before I read the novel, but I felt better about it once the book showed what it really meant to do.
god what you said of not being able to “love someone better” 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 thank you for voicing something i haven’t ever been able to verbally experience
I just want to hop in and clarify a small point. I'm from Cleveland, where Derf lives and pretty close to where Dahmer grew up. So when I saw "My Friend Dahmer" there was a q&a with Derf where he went into extensive detail about the purpose of publishing his memoir and what he liked/disliked about the movie.
Derf and the director do not sympathize with Dahmer. Derf won't even entertain questions about the murders, and in fact he was incredibly freaked out by Dahmer in high school. That was one thing he wished came across better in the film. Dahmer didn't have friends. Despite the title, Derf was hardly his friend. In the film, Derf coerces Dahmer into acting up for his own entertainment. Derf claims Dahmer did this all on his own and yeah, he watched and drew sketches of it. But a fault of the film is making it seem like Dahmer was a "normal" weird kid. According to Derf, he wasnt. He was always terrifying and no one wanted to go near him.
Another small point about the "slipping through the cracks" thing. I'm not sure if the director misunderstands Derf or if he picked a poor choice of words. Derf often says that Dahmer slipped through the cracks. Not because no one helped him or rehabilitated him. But because no one stopped him before innocent people died. this kid was literally drinking booze IN CLASS and teachers didn't care. He smelled like roadkill and whiskey. He was slurring AT THE PRINCIPAL and screaming in public malls and no one cared. He was arrested several times for masturbating in public (on playgrounds no less), for soliciting underage kids for sex. Messed up stuff. And no one ever put him away for long. A young boy he murdered almost escaped, running out into the road naked. The police were called and Dahmer was like "yeah that's my lover." And the cops left. Didn't ask to see the kid or look around. Just left. Derf isn't saying "what a sad kid, slipped through the cracks when he could have been helped." He's saying "wow. Look at all of these crimes he was committing that no one ever put him away for. We could have prevented these tragedies by locking him up sooner"
my parents and i saw this and after we talked about the nature vs. nurture and also like some kids have had much worse situations than his childhood like his whole parent situation. my dad also said "I'm interested in the human body, too but that is why i became a doctor and a surgeon" and yes dahmer's childhood is sad but you're correct, we cant forget what he did. love your vids btw!
I had the same conflicting feelings while I read the book. I knew he would become a murderer, but it was sad seeing him as a struggling teenager. I found myself wishing that things went better for him, that someone noticed how he was staggering drunk or wondered why he was constantly skipping classes. But, of course, as I continued and saw his group of friends distance themselves from him and Dahmer picking up the doomed Steven Hicks, I reminded myself that this wasn't pure fiction, and history cannot be re-written. Even Ross Lynch said he found himself feeling sorry for Dahmer. You also share the same feelings as Derf Backderf: Once he commits murder, all sympathy for him comes to an end.
Amazing that a director would tweet back! I'm curious to see this film but not sure about UK releases, hopefully I will get the chance to see it
PS Sarah you look so beautiful in this video
American Crime Story, as I predicted will be doing their second season on Andrew Cunanan who is mostly known as the man who murdered Gianni Versace, whose sister stepped in after his death to continue the Versace design house, which is still relevant and popular to this day. I remember very little about that other than the lurid captions from tabloids jumping out at me as a kid when I'd help my Dad load the groceries at checkout. I knew what gay meant, I knew it wasn't looked at as a good thing in Virginia where I grew up, and from that standpoint as a child, I asked my Dad who had a gay best friend in high school, if being gay was why Versace died and my Dad looked at me and said "No, he died because someone else was very sick, and obsessed with his success and wanted some of that fame for himself by destroying it." That stuck with me, and now owning some pre death Versace designs I realized that as a kid I intentionally forgot Cunanan and focused on Versace as a designer, an openly gay man at a time when that wasn't accepted, and I chose to celebrate him for who he was, not how he died. My own best friend of over a decade was killed last Thanksgiving by a meth addicted obsessed ex boyfriend, and my best friend Mark, had arguably one of the more tragic stories of abuse, and yet he was gentle and kind, so much so that it was to his detriment. I've always been able to feel empathy for serial killers, and really anyone who has had a difficult time, but that doesn't overshadow the empathy I feel for the victims and their loved ones. With Dahmer, I remember quite clearly the sister of one of his victims overcome with grief, yelling "I hate you Jeffrey Dahmer!" and Dahmer's expression was one of resigned confusion and sadness, it was as if it never occurred to him until then that his victims had families who loved them, that all they were to him after awhile were objects he wanted control over. While I know Dahmer was incapable of feeling most human emotions, I think that in that moment he did, and he never attempted to blame anyone or anything on why he did what he did, and seemed relieved he'd gotten caught, perhaps what he'd done could've at one point been prevented. In my dad's era the media vilified killers, and focused on the victims, in my era growing up in the nineties, the media almost fawned over serial killers, plus they now had a name, and an entire section of the FBI devoted to studying them. In that era the victims were largely ignored. People still labor under the misconception that Manson never killed anyone, when he had. As a kid who'd been bullied most of my teenage years, having my hand broken by a guy smashing my locker door on it for no reason other than he didn't like the way I dressed, and the threat of a large group of teenage girls wanting to beat me up after the boyfriend of one, broke up with her and said he wanted to date me. My dad taught me defense pistol shooting at 14, I had access to weapons and ammo, but when things got bad for me I tried to kill myself at 14 by taking my mom's entire bottle of xanax, so that made me the passive self hating type. Yes I hated the bullies but it never once crossed my mind to hurt them, I thought revenge would ultimately be not having to live in my small town, and moving to a big city, which I did. Columbine happened when I was a senior, and I remember having a shiny black vinyl trench coat that wasn't even made out of leather banned, and there were a few heavy metal stoner dudes I went to school with who only had a black leather trench coat, and I thought how dumb it was that they were banned but not the letter jackets that jocks wore to show superiority. Columbine pissed me off, Marilyn Manson getting blamed when those kids didn't even own his music was infuriating, and I fought the dress code and won. The media took columbine and ran with it, making those two kids as infamous as they'd hoped and hardly anything was said about how two high school kids could so easily amass an arsenal, that it happened in a rich white area, and where were the victims? Who were they? I guess the media is just a reflection of the general outlook of our society, giving us what we want, but I think the price we pay for that is a certain amount of humanity gets lost in translation. I really loved what you had to say, thanks so much for posting this.
i will definitely watch this movie with the knowledge of jeffrey as a murderer and horrible person. it will be interesting going back in time and witnessing how life was for him and what caused him to act upon his feelings and thoughts. thank you for making this video. i appreciate you speaking out about romanticizing serial killers and letting people know that it’s wrong and who the killers really were.
I think it's important to look back on what made someone become a serial killer, murderer, rapist, child abuser, etc. If we don't look at the pattern of causes that make someone act in such a horrible way how can we ever stop/or prevent it? (This is including non-treatment of mental disorders, and other medical conditions)
Felt sympathy way before.
In love way before.
Related way before.
Cried way before.
Watched the movie.
Sympathized even more.
In love even more.
Related even more.
Cried even worse.
Derf Backderf also wrote “Pity him, but don’t empathize with him”
Here’s my issue with this: I know that that it’s important to remember the horrible nature of his crimes, but just like any good character, no one in real life is 100% good or bad. To imagine him as “only bad” is a severe oversimplification of his life. Art imitates life, and to make a good piece of art, it needs to be reflective of what actually exists in real life. Portraying him as he honestly was before he committed terrible acts is a great reflection on how often times the world is made up of shades of grey, and it is art. To say “this shouldn’t be made because it could make people act out” is a censorship of other perspectives and it deprives people of the whole story. Art should always be allowed to exist, people should be given the opportunity to make the choice of how to react to it. Regarding the Tumblr people, people like that will find something that that to idolize anyway, trying to prevent a film like this getting made is just delaying the inevitable.
I definitely agree with you, it's terrible to empathize and justify what violent criminals do. At the same time, I DO have emotions related to the kind of tragic childood, in the sense that I wonder what it could have been like if they had more security at home or something. So that's what makes me feeling horrible about that.
I like how it ended with Jeffrey picking up that first victim hitchhiking.
I've seen, "Derf's," artwork, about Dahmer in particular, and he's incredibly talented as a cartoonist! 👍
Plus, if it also helped him remember his time in high school with Dahmer and all his other friends, as well, then more power to him.
It's like being a fly on the wall during the developmental years of someone who went on to become infamous, which is always uniquely entertaining lol I'm surprised I had never heard of the film until yesterday.
something that made me even more uncomfortable about this movie (besides the sympathising and all) was this thing i read about how during the filming of this film, the actor portraying jeffrey dahmer (ross lynch) had started behaving differently.
to think that he became so submerged in the character that it affected him outside of filming... it really disturbed me.
You must remember people who have the same problems need a voice. So if this film helps one person with the same mind set as a young dahmer. Then they may be able to verbalise what their feelings are and get help rather than go out and hurt people. We have come along way clinically and young people have a voice today
I think that feeling ambivalent about the movie was the point tbh.
Also making murderers seem like another species isn’t helpful at all (at that point it would feel like a horror movie), they’re human like us and can often blend into society pretty well, and pushing that us/them ideology doesn’t help bring awareness, it just gives people a false sense of security, makes them feel like you can easily spot a murderer and that you can always trust people that look “normal”
I actually read the novel. I haven't seen the film yet but the author says himself in the novel that even though these events happen to Dahmer, it doesn't excuse the fact that he committed those crimes and we should not sympathize with him. If this is causing people to fall in love with him then they're just being edgy 13 year old tumblr teens calling him daddy and writing fanfic or some shit lol.
I remember a few years back, one of the school shootings in the US involved a guy who had suffered from bullying at school and so he went one day and shot people to death. It was heard all over the news and on social media and I remember that people, and even some of the parents of the victims sympathized with him because he had been bullied... I even remember reading somewhere that some people didn't think he was such a bad guy because he had been bullied and the people he killed, supposedly deserved it...
I thought it was sick and I almost didn't believe it, but now I see that it is definitely possible...
Mariaah I have always said that I understand people more that snap. Anyone can be pushed too far and in the heat of the moment do something wrong (not that killing is ok just that I understand a person can only handle so much) But the ones that plan out what to wear and what gun to bring and who to shoot are the scary ones bc they know right from wrong and choose to do it anyway.
I think when it comes to bullying, bullies don't realize the existention of their actions. They think it's just simple teasing but to the victim it'll feel like the most evil thing ever. And that's where they feel that the crime fits the punishment. A gun is not called for bullying at all. But on the otherside of the spectrum the thought is if the bully doesn't give af how I feel no matter how many times they bully me then they'll learn the hard way. It's a sad cycle. Like your mom told you not to drink and drive and you did it anyways. One drink led to a five way car crash.
+Arione Criner Why are you trying to justify what the shooter did? He was a normal guy that had been bullied before he killed people, after that he was just a killer who had been bullied, don't try to sympathize... There are many kids that are bullied everyday and they don't go on a killing rampage...
I'm not defending them. I'm just saying everything has a cause and effect. Doing something you shouldn't be doing, expect consequences and a fallout. The boys were completely wrong in what they did. They killed innocents. But maybe if the bullying didn't happen, they might not have snapped but we'll never know
Arione Criner the problem is that people don't know consequences of accountability. We are raising kids that want to be famous for no reason and don't really understand their actions have consequences.
side note your skin looks SO GOOOD
i loved this review so much! while i was viewing, it was so easy to forget his crimes committed. all of his actions were not necessarily violent throughout the movie so it lets you sympathize without remembering his future (and in our context past) crimes. it was only when he went to hit his friend with the bat in which i remembered he was actually capable of such things
You are one of the only person I agree with on this topic! I don't understand people that romanticize killers.
I don't know why but I interpret the move as more of an eye opener. It teaches people to not just brush people off as just being weird when there can truly messed up things going on. Also it shows how we as people never think that someone could turn out to be pure evil or a psychopath until the damage is done.
I love your videos, you have such great insight into the matter and you are so well put together. It's amazing, defiantly subscribing!
I watched the movie and I thought it was made to raise awareness of the effects of abuse and bullying. They could become self destructive and end up committing suicide, or they become angry and become the abuser. Either way both of the effects are terrible.
I'm sure this has been said, but major props to Ross Lynch. After seeing him in "Austin and Ally" I thought he was just another teen star who'd burn out and be nothing, but he shows legitimate promise of being a very good and well respected actor. His portrayal was truly amazing! I never ray thought he would be capable of acting like that, but he really made the movie even better.
I work in childcare, and as early childhood educators we are the first ones to notice when a child has behavioral and mental problems that need to be addressed. We are also the first ones to notice when a child is being abused or neglected. I have taken many classes on these subjects because it is important to me. I do think that if he had gotten help as a child or teenager he most likely wouldn't have become a killer, but we will never know
if anything would have helped him. I think it is important to raise awareness on helping youth with mental disorders
I haven't seen this film yet but I've already put some time into studying his case. To be a killer is not a choice. There's nothing like deciding to kill, many events and stressors lead to murder someone. He even talked about how desperate he was to have these kind of thoughts and he couldn't stop them - it was some kind of OCD I would say and it's so hard to fight on your own. But imagine if you wanted someone to help you but you are thinking about KILLING a human - how must that feel? He was trapped in his own mind, victim of mental abuse, tragic family background and misunderstanding from people of his age - we can't just mark him as a beast for how it made his mind twist because he didn't ask for it. It just happened and it's so tragic that there was absolutely no one to notice and have the patience which people like him need.
I am really not in love with him, that's even weird to think about. And in NO WAY I want to make up apologies for Dahmer's actions. I just think this film puts you in the right angle to understand how these 'monsters' are created and shaped by surroundings.
In his case it's a mental illnes and god yes it had a horrible impact on lives of innocent people for which there's no apology at all. But he didn't just said to himself one day 'I will kill someone just because'. Psychology of killers is much more complex as you for sure know.
I enjoyed this video so much more than your "Romantizing Serial Killers" video, this is so interesting and I truly appreciate your opinion. I feel the problem with this movie (without having seen it and purely based on what you've said about it" is the way in which it was chosen to be represented. The could've taken the exact same storyline and put a more sinister undertone in it and it would've changed the entire message and experience of the film. Sometimes people forget the true power of cinema.
You're so reasonable and well-spoken. Subscribed!
I know I'm three years late, but as a psychologist, I know that psychopathy tends to run in families, If a parent or grandparent is diagnosed, a child's odds increase ten-fold. Psychopathy is also under the diagnosis 'Anti-Social Personality Disorder' and to be diagnosed with Anti-Social Personality Disorder, you have to be aged 18, as with all personality disorders (ie, Narcissistic Personality Disorder), and in childhood, diagnosed with Conduct Disorder, according to the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual). And I feel the need to say this: IF YOU WERE DIAGNOSED WITH CONDUCT DISORDER AS A CHILD, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL BE DIAGNOSED WITH ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER AS AN ADULT! I REPEAT, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL BE DIAGNOSED WITH ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER AS AN ADULT!
I always registered the plot of the original graphic novel as a cautionary "tale", presenting how his story was very much a worst case scenario. I didn't catch if you said you actually read the graphic novel, but I would recommend it. I haven't seen the movie yet, though, so I can't outright say what was and wasn't changed. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the commentary Backderf provides in the novel was taken out for time or whatever, and Backderf's comments throughout it really helped me not sympathize with the wrong person. And that *art* , holy fuck, that art definitely doesn't give the benefit of "portrayed by cute Disney actor" to Dahmer.
Sarah! Have you seen David Fincher's new show Mindhunter on Netflix? It deals a lot with the same sort of themes as this. It's about two FBI agents who interview serial killers to get an idea of what made them serial killers. Definitely brings up the question of how we should or should not humanize killers and is also just generally a great show. Highly recommend!
I haven't seen the movie yet but I watched the tv special they had on him which featured an interview with his parents and it also made you sympathize with him, a little. I think that if we're going to be excited to look at and analyze Jeffrey's back story, we should be able to look at any murderer's, rapist's, terrorist's back story that lead up to "that" story in order to get somewhat of an understanding of why they did what they did...because why not?
i don't think picking an "ugly" actor would be the solution but i don't think they should have picked an actor mainly known for a children's show who is meant to be a heartthrob
A problem I think of when movies are made about serial killers is worrying if there's some huge Dahmer 'fan' out there that maybe isn't very stable as well and tries to copy what he did or "be like him". Because you really never know.
One thing that I was confused on was that the movie shows that there were drug and relationship problems with the parents and every documentary and true crime show (even books) I have seen about him, have stated that he had a "perfect childhood" or that everyone was "so shocked" when he became the monster he ended up as, because there was no reason why he would've been like that. And mind you I am extremely intrigued with true crime and serial killers and the psychology aspect (and the forensic aspects) and I have never seen a single thing that has stated that he had a bad childhood until the movie and now every crime thing I see if him now talks about a messed up childhood. It's like a Mandela effect and it's tripping me out.
It's the crux of it; if someone is mentally ill, all the love in the world isn't enough.
This is exactly how I feel. Whenever people try to humanize abusers of any sort, it overlooks the victims they've left behind. I think it's important to know the upbringings to better "understand" possible reasons for why someone makes horrible choices such as, I mean quite frankly, murder but when made into movie form, especially w/o it being a documentary, it leaves room for romanticization of such people and even room for forgiveness (and that's not even coming from the Tumblr types who revere serial killers). I care more about the victims and how to analyze abusers/killers so we can try and stop more people like them, than finding ways to empathize with them.
I don't follow anyone on tumblr who loves serial killers, but I have seen some of the posts that people have screenshot or reblogged to be like wtf is this, and the two killers I always see in those posts are Dahmer and Dylann Roof. Someone was also mentioning that most of the people in "the serial killer fandom" are white, so I think it's very telling that two of the most celebrated killers (at least from what I have seen) are white men whose victims were mostly black.
I don't like our society's obsession with serial killers and true crime. People take it to such a weird level. I have seen cards on etsy with serial killers on them, and don't get me started on the whole my favorite murder thing. It has gotten so big now, but it was a thing long before tumblr. It's just that back then it was mostly guys trying to be edgy (my brother was one of them back in the 90s and early 2000s) and now women and young girls are into it big time too. It's so disturbing and disappointing.
I get why people are interested, and I'm not completely immune to that interest, but all I can think about is how the people affected must feel, especially when so many people react the way they do with absolutely no shame.
Ted bundy starring Zac Efron is coming soon
Philosophy Wit I mean, Ted Bundy was actually a good looking guy. That’s basically the way he was able to kill people so casting someone good looking to play him is understandable.
He was sentenced to 15 life sentences, they couldn't find any connection between two disappearances.
Yoo girl what do you use to colour your hair that is beautiful!