Honestly I had no idea till you mentioned you didnt have a lot of subs. You are producing incredible content for resto shams and should certainly have more subs for the quality of your content. Keep at it bud, you'll get there. We appreciate the effort you put in, really loving the dungeon series your putting together.
And I REALLY like that practice mode option, hell if I knew how to code I would make one for raids too fill it with bots that just do the basics so you can test hps/talents/mechanics.
Subbed and liked, I am so surprised you have 1.78k subs, listend to your content in Dragonflight also and you should be way higher. Sorry for not doing this earlier. Going to do this for the next video's aswell.
Hi Shamrocked, love your guides as I am planning to play shaman resto this season, they are very helpfull. Are you planning to create a Raid healing tutorial or it's not something you are specialized in?
Bro, it was really awesome to hear you talking about a practice mode. I've been advocating for this for years because *not* having it really makes mythic plus so much more toxic than it needs to be. It would resolve the entire key depletion problem. Basically when you fail a really high key the punishment is too high and you have to do a quite hard but not limit key again just so you can practice the harder key again. This feels way too punishing. And it creates a giant burden on those that just want to practice the really hard keys before risking someones live key. There should be a dedicated practice mode where you can actually experience what it's like healing a plus 15 tyrannical boss without the cost of having to then go through and heal a + 14 if you miss a single heal or something...which is also quite difficult. Unfortunately, I think the technical implementation of a solution like this is way too high for blizzard to consider it. :/ Edit: as you mentioned later in the video, this also gets you around the problem of simply removing key depletion which would would result in people just quitting keys after the first tiny thing goes wrong and get people to burn out really hard by just running the plus 15s over and over and over again.
Thanks a lot for all the great vids. You have convinced me to switch to Shammy this season. However, I am feeling ancestral guidance feels very weak compared to Dragonflight, just me?
Do you think they did it this way to avoid "filler" or "dead" keylevels? If thats the case I agree in concept but agree with your points stated...the difficulty spike is too steep.
With utmost respect, I disagree with your conclusions. In software development terms, you consider the way this new 12+ system works a bug of sorts. In my opinion, it's a feature. The 12+ key range is distinctly different from everything below it, the whole game mode functions under different rules and there are no in-game power rewards attached to it. It's presented as an "if you want a challenge, go knock yourselves out" game mode. In that environment, you SHOULD get dropkicked in the teeth to denote that you're playing a different kind of game now. In other words, if you want to play with the big boys, get ready to get hit like a big boy or get out if you're not ready for it. And I'm saying this as someone who's more interested in Mythic raiding and barely steps past the vault-filling keys. If I step into a +12 next season, I WILL get hit in the mouth, there will not be a dentist in the world that can make my smile great again :D The more even difficulty curve from previous M+ seasons created a problem of sorts. Due to there not being a clear objective distinction of what key is considered "high," people kept bashing their heads against it in pugs, geting annoyed, and raging on Reddit and Twitter, when the problem could have been solved by making friends, organizing, and playing in an organized way, like the key level actually demanded. Because there was no clear way to tell where the point you were supposed to organize at was due to the way scaling worked, people just didn't do it. If this new affix setup is as much of a shock to the system as it seems to be, people will get to the point where pugging just isn't viable anymore MUCH faster and have to organize if they want to progress. Which is the intended way to play high keys anyway. It will only be a problem if you can't time +11s in pugs with mostly whatever specs you happen to get for that key. The lower upper limit at which the key becomes numerically impossible to survive compared to Dragonflight M+ is a feature, not a bug as well, in my opinion. For argument's sake, let's say that +15 (because it's a nice round number) is the highest key level you can time in Season 1 of The War Within with BiS gear, perfect comp, and practically perfect play, while +14s can be done with several different comps, BiS gear and without making any big mistakes. That's a great thing in my opinion, even if you have to reroll to a meta spec when your goal is to time +15s. Expecting to be able to play whatever you want and time the highest keys possible in any given season is akin to an absolute Soraka one trick in League of Legends qualifying for the World Championships and expecting his opponents to NOT permanently ban that champion in every game. If you play the big boy game, do it properly or get out, essentially. The trickle-down meta problem might not be as rough as it would promise to be at first glance too if the scaling is as rough as you propose either. Let's say that +12s are barely puggable by really great players, less individually skilled people have to organize. Then, +13s basically require you to be in a premade you play with often no matter how individually skilled you are. +14s demand a premade where everyone is a VERY good player and works together almost perfectly. +15s are the literal highest keys being done, timed only by the sweatiest of nerds. You probably had to organize back when you were doing +12s and nobody knew what the meta comp would be, you've been progressing with the same people that you (presumably) like to play with. You're timing your +14s, but +15s knock you on your ass. Doing them would require 3 people you've been playing with for months to reroll to another class. You weigh how much you actually want to time those +15s. If you're all up for the challenge, great, knock yourselves out. If you'd rather stop at +14s, great too, you're probably in title range anyway. Of course, the actual key levels might be different, but I don't see a problem with the concept outlined in the previous paragraph. The number of the key level you do doesn't actually matter. it could be +13, it could be +69. To use a poker metaphor, a bet of $1,000,000 seems strong when the blinds are $5,000-$10,000, but it's laughably small when the blinds are $125k-$250k. The key level and how high it is only matters in relation to the highest key that's been done that season. And if the difficulty jumps between key levels are high, each step just becomes more meaningful. Who knows, the phrase, "We're working on getting all +14s done," might actually start meaning something... meaningful next season. Hell, the +12 -> +13 -> +14 -> 15 progression might even be similar to LFR -> Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic from raiding, at least in terms of how comparatively hard the game tries to kill you. In this comparison, anything below +11 is Story Mode, I guess, by the way. Anyway, this is completely theoretical and way too long. TL;DR: If you elect to move past +11 and want to play with the big boys, you should get ready to get kicked in the mouth by the game and have to stop treating it like Solo Queue in League of Legends. And if you don't have the time to do that or raid for gear, well... Deal with it? I don't know :D Once again, I'm not saying that I'm in any way good enough to pug a +12 in this scenario I've painted. These are just my conceptual musings on the matter. If this is what Blizzard's going for? I might even actually try it out. I will bankrupt the Tooth Fairy, dammit :D
Honestly I had no idea till you mentioned you didnt have a lot of subs. You are producing incredible content for resto shams and should certainly have more subs for the quality of your content. Keep at it bud, you'll get there. We appreciate the effort you put in, really loving the dungeon series your putting together.
I was thinking the same thing 😎
This video ages like fine wine, especially the 15 sec on deaths part.
Also depletion needs to go.
And I REALLY like that practice mode option, hell if I knew how to code I would make one for raids too fill it with bots that just do the basics so you can test hps/talents/mechanics.
Yeah the subs are weird. You are very popular in my surroundings! Thank you for all your work!
Subbed and liked, I am so surprised you have 1.78k subs, listend to your content in Dragonflight also and you should be way higher. Sorry for not doing this earlier. Going to do this for the next video's aswell.
Hi Shamrocked, love your guides as I am planning to play shaman resto this season, they are very helpfull. Are you planning to create a Raid healing tutorial or it's not something you are specialized in?
Bro, it was really awesome to hear you talking about a practice mode. I've been advocating for this for years because *not* having it really makes mythic plus so much more toxic than it needs to be.
It would resolve the entire key depletion problem. Basically when you fail a really high key the punishment is too high and you have to do a quite hard but not limit key again just so you can practice the harder key again. This feels way too punishing. And it creates a giant burden on those that just want to practice the really hard keys before risking someones live key.
There should be a dedicated practice mode where you can actually experience what it's like healing a plus 15 tyrannical boss without the cost of having to then go through and heal a + 14 if you miss a single heal or something...which is also quite difficult.
Unfortunately, I think the technical implementation of a solution like this is way too high for blizzard to consider it. :/
Edit: as you mentioned later in the video, this also gets you around the problem of simply removing key depletion which would would result in people just quitting keys after the first tiny thing goes wrong and get people to burn out really hard by just running the plus 15s over and over and over again.
Can't believe I wasn't subbed, fixed that!
Thanks a lot for all the great vids. You have convinced me to switch to Shammy this season.
However, I am feeling ancestral guidance feels very weak compared to Dragonflight, just me?
"Punish me all you want" -Shamrocked 2024
Also the ability to obtain mythic level gear from mythic plus dungeons is going to stonewall progression.
Do you think they did it this way to avoid "filler" or "dead" keylevels? If thats the case I agree in concept but agree with your points stated...the difficulty spike is too steep.
New players are getting groomed by the sweat lords in heroic dungeons.
With utmost respect, I disagree with your conclusions. In software development terms, you consider the way this new 12+ system works a bug of sorts. In my opinion, it's a feature. The 12+ key range is distinctly different from everything below it, the whole game mode functions under different rules and there are no in-game power rewards attached to it. It's presented as an "if you want a challenge, go knock yourselves out" game mode. In that environment, you SHOULD get dropkicked in the teeth to denote that you're playing a different kind of game now. In other words, if you want to play with the big boys, get ready to get hit like a big boy or get out if you're not ready for it. And I'm saying this as someone who's more interested in Mythic raiding and barely steps past the vault-filling keys. If I step into a +12 next season, I WILL get hit in the mouth, there will not be a dentist in the world that can make my smile great again :D
The more even difficulty curve from previous M+ seasons created a problem of sorts. Due to there not being a clear objective distinction of what key is considered "high," people kept bashing their heads against it in pugs, geting annoyed, and raging on Reddit and Twitter, when the problem could have been solved by making friends, organizing, and playing in an organized way, like the key level actually demanded. Because there was no clear way to tell where the point you were supposed to organize at was due to the way scaling worked, people just didn't do it. If this new affix setup is as much of a shock to the system as it seems to be, people will get to the point where pugging just isn't viable anymore MUCH faster and have to organize if they want to progress. Which is the intended way to play high keys anyway. It will only be a problem if you can't time +11s in pugs with mostly whatever specs you happen to get for that key.
The lower upper limit at which the key becomes numerically impossible to survive compared to Dragonflight M+ is a feature, not a bug as well, in my opinion. For argument's sake, let's say that +15 (because it's a nice round number) is the highest key level you can time in Season 1 of The War Within with BiS gear, perfect comp, and practically perfect play, while +14s can be done with several different comps, BiS gear and without making any big mistakes. That's a great thing in my opinion, even if you have to reroll to a meta spec when your goal is to time +15s. Expecting to be able to play whatever you want and time the highest keys possible in any given season is akin to an absolute Soraka one trick in League of Legends qualifying for the World Championships and expecting his opponents to NOT permanently ban that champion in every game. If you play the big boy game, do it properly or get out, essentially.
The trickle-down meta problem might not be as rough as it would promise to be at first glance too if the scaling is as rough as you propose either. Let's say that +12s are barely puggable by really great players, less individually skilled people have to organize. Then, +13s basically require you to be in a premade you play with often no matter how individually skilled you are. +14s demand a premade where everyone is a VERY good player and works together almost perfectly. +15s are the literal highest keys being done, timed only by the sweatiest of nerds. You probably had to organize back when you were doing +12s and nobody knew what the meta comp would be, you've been progressing with the same people that you (presumably) like to play with. You're timing your +14s, but +15s knock you on your ass. Doing them would require 3 people you've been playing with for months to reroll to another class. You weigh how much you actually want to time those +15s. If you're all up for the challenge, great, knock yourselves out. If you'd rather stop at +14s, great too, you're probably in title range anyway.
Of course, the actual key levels might be different, but I don't see a problem with the concept outlined in the previous paragraph. The number of the key level you do doesn't actually matter. it could be +13, it could be +69. To use a poker metaphor, a bet of $1,000,000 seems strong when the blinds are $5,000-$10,000, but it's laughably small when the blinds are $125k-$250k. The key level and how high it is only matters in relation to the highest key that's been done that season. And if the difficulty jumps between key levels are high, each step just becomes more meaningful. Who knows, the phrase, "We're working on getting all +14s done," might actually start meaning something... meaningful next season. Hell, the +12 -> +13 -> +14 -> 15 progression might even be similar to LFR -> Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic from raiding, at least in terms of how comparatively hard the game tries to kill you. In this comparison, anything below +11 is Story Mode, I guess, by the way.
Anyway, this is completely theoretical and way too long. TL;DR: If you elect to move past +11 and want to play with the big boys, you should get ready to get kicked in the mouth by the game and have to stop treating it like Solo Queue in League of Legends. And if you don't have the time to do that or raid for gear, well... Deal with it? I don't know :D Once again, I'm not saying that I'm in any way good enough to pug a +12 in this scenario I've painted. These are just my conceptual musings on the matter. If this is what Blizzard's going for? I might even actually try it out. I will bankrupt the Tooth Fairy, dammit :D