Hello viewer, this comment is an extra addendum to the video with some corrections and extra thoughts I've had, since in the months since the videos release, and after experiencing and reading the story again, some of my opinions have changed, others have become even stronger, and I realized I made a couple mistakes throughout the video that should be kept in mind. The simple fact that no matter how many times I read or watch this series I find new ways to think about it, come to new conclusions, and find details I missed before further cements WHY this is my current favorite work of fiction. I am not the same person that I was 5 minutes ago or 3 months ago, and the series impacts me in a different way every time I experience it, and I love it for that now, some mistakes in my video. At the beginning, I brought up the opinion that I believe a story should be able to convey everything necessary without having to know the source material, and that any given story should be evaluated on it's own merits. I still firmly believe this, that the light novel and anime, despite telling the same story, are 2 different independent works of fiction and should be judged thus. A lot of people like to bring up in episode 23 that there is cut context that Rudy has spent 3 weeks starving himself in his room after Pauls death, and that there is a conversation in the LN between the other characters about what to do about him. I stated that none of these details or specifics were vital to convey exactly, because we can see and infer from Rudy's gaunt appearance and his past actions in similar situations that he's in bad shape and has been starving himself in his room, but that perhaps a throwaway line to confirm that wouldn't have hurt. I said that overall, the anime told this aspect of the story good enough that the LN context isn't necessary to make the scenes work. I still stand by all this and think that I did a good job FOR THE MOST PART, discussing ONLY the anime presentation of events. For example, I didn't once bring up how in the LN, Roxy has a MUCH stronger case against the claim of SA due to the differences, or how Rudy strongly hinted that he's from another world, ect. However, I think I made a mistake in regards to my discussion of Elinelise, as I mention more than once in the video that in the LN she gaslit Rudy into thinking that Roxy was pregnant in order to force the marriage, something I was deeply uncomfortable with, but ultimately accepted during my time reading the LN. But that colored my opinion of her in the anime that wasn't fair, and I think in the context of a video ABOUT THE STORY THE ANIME REPRESENTS, I was a little harsh on her. Since rewatching, I find I don't see her push for Roxy's marriage as particularly aggressive like it was in the LN, and don't feel she really did any wrong in the context of the anime. She just followed up on Pauls conversation teaching Rudy about polygamy, and guided him in a direction for him and Roxy to get what they both want. She still did something INCREDIBLY fucked up in the LN, and again, I still love her as a character and think she makes a good member of the family, but I will absolutely admit that she is a notably better person in the anime (her biggest lie is of course still to come however) I've also changed my mind in regards to Rudy's conduct with Sylphie. I still do stand by the fact that ESPECIALLY IN THE ANIME, he has a pass for sleeping with Roxy due to the nature of SA as discussed in the video. I also still believe that his greatest crime is not seeking a second wife, but breaking his promise to Sylphie, and he was absolutely right to apologize to her. I also think he's more guilty of this in the LN where its much less SA coded, and is a stronger story beat because of that when Sylphie decides to accept Roxy anyways. However, I no longer see my claim that Rudy should have discussed the possibility of being poly prior to talking to Roxy about it as being correct. After experiencing the story again, I've come to the conclusion that the order of which he approached each of them about the marriage is largely irrelevant. He had the talk with Sylphie, and everyone agreed, and that's all that mattered. He desired a change in the rules of their relationship (after he had admitedly broken them), apologized for his indiscretion, and discussed his desires for change and why. I see absolutely zero issues with Rudy's conduct during that conversation and broaching the subject of being poly. Lastly, I just wanted to put an EVEN BIGGER DISCLAIMER on the bit about medical consent, as I really do think that while thinking in that regard is valid for an in universe justification for Roxy's actions in-universe, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should such a line of thought ever be brought up to the real world, since what it amounts to is doing mental gymnastics to find justification for SA, which is never okay. It is however, I think, a legitimate thought experiment in-universe, even if the ultimate conclusion I arrived at is that it didn't matter. Again, it's important to remember that it's possible to acknowledge that an action is justifiable in universe without forgetting that it would NOT be acceptable in our own. That's all. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and listen to the video. Love ya'll!
This is one of the most thoughtful commentaries on that scene I have ever seen. You're a very careful, analytical, and compassionate informant. I would like to see more from you.
I liked that you explained one of the "barriers" of the anime about Rudeus' sexual assault tendencies to a literal kid. It is definitely understandable that people will think of Rudeus as a bad / annoying character and also have the same bias to people who decided to still read and see Rudeus's transformation and character development. The world-building here is great and I believe if the author changed Rudeus personality to be not such a perv then more people would read and watch his story. However, I believe the author does not care to tell a story that caters to the majority of the people. He just wants to tell Rudeus' story. With all the good, the bad, and everything in it. Just like in life, Rudeus is not a perfect character, Pau is not the perfect dad, Eris is not the perfect love interest, the author is not a perfect writer and the fans are not perfect people. I truly believe people are missing out because they did not give Rudeus, a flawed character, change and grow for the better just like how the rest of us want to do for ourselves. Great video!
What's make rudeus unique compared to other Isekai protagonist is that the world never revolve around him and reality always slap him to the face. Despite being an op character, he gets nearly gets killed by people who are weaker than him but more experience than him.
@@BoscoSal-aodespite being "OP", some old lady bitch slaps him and his entire squad before getting rescued by someone else. He is OP compared to maybe the average Joes from the Six-Faced World, but not much in the grand scheme of things. He's rooted in the understanding of his own shortcomings and trying to improve. Actual character development, not just new hair color when MC yells new stuff at random new evil person
Daaaamn bro, you really should keep doing this, i thought you had more videos, doing something like this on your second video is really impressive. Keep it up
You’re telling me this is only your second video? Please continue to make stuff like this! This video went through every nook and cranny of the situation and it was awesome. You got a new subscriber.
@@varietystamps4419 I don't have anything planned. You may have noticed, but there a 7 month gap between my first and second video. I only make a video when I feel particularly impassioned and feel like I need a script and video to sort my thoughts TBH, nothing in this particular anime season is having this kinda effect on me, so it'll probably be at least a few months again
Thank you very much for this video. It was enlightening, and you did your best to cover as many angles with as many logical and emotional points as possible. It's also cool that you still left room for personal interpretation in case someone didn't agree with any points because this series can be very uncomfortable at times depending on how you look at it. I didn't necessarily have any problems with the content matter and presentation of the show, but I was reading intent of characters and the in-between-the-lines stuff. I'm glad there's a video to help lay out similar thoughts in a helpful manner.
@@ipromisenothing thank you much! I like to use my videos as a way to help sort my thoughts sometimes, and I do my best to share my opinions without enforcing them
In a world without psychology, no medicine to treat mental illness, and where most of the characters are illiterate I find it hard to judge the situation. Booze and women is 99% what most people would have though of back then. Plus, they were basically stuck there without Rudeus aid, and we are talking about a man that holed up in his room for over a decade in his previous life after being bullied, and who spent 3 years with ED after he was dumped. I think the threat was real. If you ask me, the book sets up the situation in a brilliant way. It makes it feel like when stranded people eat their dead. It's reproachable but understandable. Anyway, you said you would judge the anime by its own merit but mentioned details from the book... If you were going to do that you might as well have added in how it happened in the books too. That it was Rudeus who pushed Roxy down (overwhelmed by the soothing feeling), all Roxy did was give her consent. It's a big contrast from the anime.
Yeah I came to this conclusion as well after some time passed since this video and realized that bringing up Elinelise's gaslighting was a mistake. I've added a pinned comment working as an addendum acknowledging that, as well as some very SLIGHT changes of opinion in the months since I've made the video. Thank you for the comment, it's very valid.
This is one of the rare occasions where an 18+ story requires you to actually be mature and thoughtful. You have to be someone who has their beliefs cemented and who can separate reality from fiction, or one context from another. As someone that loves history, this is an issue you see a lot when immature people try to judge the past. They try to apply modern morality as if the world back then was the same as it is today (and get offended when it differs). They forget so much of what shapes our modern views are relatively recent creations (like the advent of: human rights; abolishment of slavery; modern medicine, genetics, technology and law; availability of food and water; suffrage, etc). A lot of character behaviors and beliefs in MT are almost directly copied from somewhere in human history.
Great video, after finishing season 2 I actually went and bought 1-10 of the LN and am currently halfway through vol. 8. I look forward to seeing any future videos you make pop up in my feed.
@@thewolfgirlexpert enjoy the books it's a fantastic read A fair warning, I'm not s consistent uploader, since I only make videos that I really want to and feel I have something relevant to say. My previous video before this was 7 months ago. But I appreciate the subscription all the same!
@@BisonKamuy-up5dl No problem, and trust me I've subscribed to creators with worse schedules! I am thoroughly enjoying them so far, especially the different character perspectives not shown in the anime. I'll be looking to order 11-20 here soon!
You have to make more video essays. This tickled my brain and was very entertaining to listen to/watch while video editing! definitely looking forward to seeing more content from you
I think the only point where Elinalise crossed the line was lying about Roxy being pregnant. My interpretation is that she saw that deep down Rudy wanted to be with Roxy, but that he would have stuck to his principles if she let the situation be. So she talked to him and tried to convince him it's okay, but he still couldn't accept it. Bringing up Roxy being pregnant was a brilliant way to change Rudy's outlook on the situation as it immediately changed the way he thinks. Up to that point it's okay. But she should have come clean immediately after, she already got Rudy to change his way of thinking and telling him that she's not pregnant wouldn't have changed that. It honestly feels a bit out of character for Elinalise not to tell him. The only reason I can think of is to ensure Rudy doesn't get cold feet when it's time to tell Sylphie the news. But to me keeping the lie going is where she crossed the line from changing Rudy's way of thinking to outright manipulating him.
Um, it was not the first time Elinalise lied. Recall what she said about Zenith when she first met Rudeus. She probably felt that Paul's current party was enough and she really didn't want to see Paul so she lied through her teeth about Zenith's state so Rudeus wouldn't drag her to Paul. Even Rudeus mentions at some point that Elinalise sometimes lies to him, but what she told him there just made too much sense. Honestly, she really got me too, since it seemed so plausible.
@@mikeluna2026 I don't think she knew the exact situation Zenith was in at that point. Kishiraka told them Zenith is in Rapan but I can't really get a good look for some reason, or something along those lines. Not to say Elinalise would never lie, but the fact she knew exactly how this lie would affect Rudy's decision and going through with it is what I take offense with. She essentially made the decision for him and that's a step to far.
I've come to agree with this assessment over the months since making the video. Guess I'm just another example of how people can change :D. I also think bringing up the lie about Roxy's pregnancy was a mistake in a video where I had tried to keep it just about the anime since I expressed that I believe the LN and anime are each their own work of fiction and should be judged on their own merits, even when telling different stories. doesn't change the OTHER things she's lying about, though thats a topic for season 3 lol
I've loved the video, both your take on the situation and the MT as a whole. With the internet filled with so much mindless shit slinging from both MT's haters and lovers and I'm happy to see a well-articulated opinion so close with my own. I would love to see your thoughts on other aspects of the series.
Great video that's pretty well thought out, but I have to give some major pushback as well. It's not just for the sake of defending Roxy, but I think it's a defining moment for her character and very critical to understanding Roxy's story and the way she views love. Note, I haven't read the novels, just parts of the chapter in question as well as having heard some things about it from other comment sections. Primarilly, I'm not convinced that Rudeus' depression makes him completely incapable of consent and I think it is unfair to both Roxy and Sylphie to say so. While it is true that he was emotionally distressed, he seemed to be perfectly fine cognitively. He was fully responsive, giving arguements, and completely aware of the situation. I'm not sure if you can take away someone's responsibility and agency just because they are emotionally disregulated, and if you can, I don't think the line is where you drew it. If instead of pushing down Roxy and having sex with her, he instead punched her in the face, would you still say he isn't responsible for his actions because he was depressed and emotionally compromised? I don't think so. That being said, Rudues was in an emotionally compromised state that made him pliable and susceptible to manipulation. I am fully willing to say that taking advantage of that state in order to convince someone to have sex with you is a form of SA. The question is, did Roxy "take advantage?" I say no. I think of it like a power dynamic. Just because a power dynamic exists, doesn’t mean something wrong has happened. It is only wrong when the power dynamic is used against one person for the benefit of the person with the power. Take this example, Person A is dating Person B. They are both at Person A's house and Person B lives far away and has no vehicle or means of getting home other than Person A. That is a power dynamic. If Person A says "have sex with me or I won't give you a ride and you'll be stuck here," then that is an abuse of power. If Person A says "I want to have sex but if you don't that's fine, just tell me when you want a ride home," then that power dynamic still exists, but there is no abuse because Person A respected Person B's agency. While it's true that Roxy has something to gain by sleeping with Rudeus because she loves him, I see no evidence that it was her primary motive. She tries a number of different ways to try to cheer him up first, she invites him outside, she empathizes with his grief, and when that doesn’t work, she hugs him. That's not trying to convince him to have sex, she's trying to avoid that outcome if she can. It's only after Rudy grabs her that she says he can do it if he wants to. Even her reaction to hearing that Rudeus was already married is "my feelings aren't what is important right now." And for Rudy's part, it wasnt like it took a long time for him to process and recover to feel some responsibility for cheating, it was literally his very first thought when he woke up. "Roxy admitted to it." True, but she was wrong, as was Lillia when she claimed that Paul was innocent when he cheated. They both want to take the blame. Lillia claims Paul is innocent because she seduced him. This isn't true and they are both to blame. Roxy claims Rudeus is innocent because she took adavantage of him. Just because Roxy said it doesn't make it true. She was trying to sacrifice her feelings so that Rudy doesn't have to suffer any of the guilt of cheating. And boy does Roxy like making sacrifices, especially when it comes to her own feelings. Roxy has always been someone who shows her love through sacrifice. She thought she was a burden to her parents so she made the sacrifice of distancing herself and becoming independent. She HAND WROTE an entire textbook on Demon God language just because Rudy asked for a bit of help. After the mana disaster, she immediately abandoned her (albeit shitty) job just to go look for Rudy. She passed up the opportunity to get a demon eye just to get more information on the location of Rudy's family. Rather than try to meet with him (knowing that he was depressed and this was the perfect opportunity to save him and earn some browinie points) like she wanted to, she decides to let him focus on himself and go to Ranoa so SHE can save go Zenith in his place. She spent SIX YEARS of her life looking for his family. And after all that she was fully ready to step aside and let Sylphie have him. I think that Roxy's first sexual experience with the man she loved, which she thought would be the only one, being violent and painful is an extraordinary sacrifice that represents her love for Rudeus in a carnal and powerful way. I think that's what was meant to be represented by that scene in the novel and is the core of her character. The narrative that Roxy took advantage of or SA'd Rudeus doesn’t feel like it can be true because Roxy is not a character that behaves selfishly.
@Andrew-hm8no I appreciate that, but there are some clarifications and even some misinformation that I want to correct. 1. Roxy did not quit her job because of Rudeus. The only line in the anime referring to her quitting is a statement by Zanoba, but someone else pointed out to me that it was made very clear in the novel. Roxy quit because of Pax and only learned of the displacement incident while on the road to visit Rudy before she started looking for more work. Still, she did drop everything to go searching for him when she did find out about it. 2. This is only an explanation of the way she loves, not selflessness or self-sacrifice as a general character trait. There is no indication that she behaves this way for strangers, just people she cares about. To put it in psych terms, her love language is acts of service. She seems to truly enjoy doing services for the people of Buena Village, even if she is being paid for it. 3. While I do believe that their sexual experience was metaphorically a sacrifice of her body for Rudy to vent, that is only my interpretation of the narrative subtext of the scene and is in no way attributable to Roxy's understanding of that event. After all, she felt guilty over her ulterior motives and she had no way of knowing that Rudeus would be rough with her. It seems that Sylphie prefers it that way and it's very possible that Roxy enjoyed it greatly, even if her goal was mainly to heal Rudeus.
Is that god damn mischievous alchemy that i hear? Hell yeah, pass a list of songs, i got a couple. Great video! It's super interesting to see all the perspectives of this situation. I personally consider it was a selfish action performed by Roxy and Rudius marrying her is even more selfish. It's fascinating how the anime nudges us to empathyse with Rudius because the viewer and Rudius know how important Roxy is. At the end those selfish acts is why the stort is so enjoyable. You see people in complicated situations and how conflicted Rudius is, truly demonstrate he's taking his new life seriously. Subscribed and hope to see another from you!
yes it is mischivous alchemy!! aight, heres a song list, in order 1. "happy to you" from the Age of Empires 3 soundtrack 2. a track with a japanese name I can't read from the mushoku tensei season 1 soundtrack (it plays during episode 9 when traveling across the demon continent) 3. "next to you" a soundtrack song from the anime Parasyte: the Maxim 4. "mischievous alchemy" from kingdom 2 crowns ost 5. "ashen crown" also from kingdom 2 crowns ost 6. "tomorrows island" also from kingdom 2 crowns ost 7. shinobu's theme from the anime Nisemonogatari 8. "the blue archer" once again from kingdom 2 crowns 9. "waltz of loneliness" from the anime adaptation of Black Rock Shooter 10. "the first layer" from the anime Made in Abyss
Nice analysis, I shall follow you Mr. Bison. I put Golden K on hold but perhaps I'll get back into it. Perhaps the source material though. Excited to listen to your other essay. Cheers
About Elinalise's lies and manipulations. In a vacuum of course it is wrong because wisdom of ages teaches us that on average such behavior causes harm more often than not. But you should consider a context and the particular outcome. Can it be wrong if outcome is positive? If her actions caused different outcome, than sure. People may object that "well, that's because author wrote it that way, not fair" which can lead to "writer teaches reader bad things". But, is reality we live in corresponds to the principle that lies always lead to bad outcome? No. Or we would live in black and white world where everything is so easy and predictable. This is something that I notice often in regard to MT critique, is that people focus on something that can be called morally wrong in a vacuum but ignore completely the effect it actually has on everyone involved. You can lie and save life, you can try to save life and doom to death specifically due to your involvement. I don't think that intention should be hold in higher regard than outcome. And in this particular situation we have an example of good intentions and good outcome. Means are questionable, but since everyone is happy in the end it means that it was right solution for this particular situation, these particular people.
Great video! I’ve been a fan of Mushoku Tensei since the first episode. After season 1 release I read all the LNs. I get people not liking it because they’re not cool with some the of stuff it portrays, but it upsets me a little when their criticism is about as hypocritical and surface level as it gets. MT gets so much hate just because it dares to show things as different shades of gray instead of black and white. People make mistakes sometimes. I’m not excusing bad choices and actions, but I am saying that people can learn and grow and change. Some people don’t seem to agree with that or aren’t able to understand that. I think it comes down to a fundamental difference in outlooks on life and ways of thinking. I’d like to think my way of thinking is better, but honestly who’s to say? I think a lot of people don’t like to grapple with morally gray areas because it’s not as easy a watch as Demon Slayer where the whole point is really only flashy fights. It takes a little more to connect and get the most out of a story like MT where it’s not afraid to show some ugly things, because people actually do ugly things. Some people just don’t want to deal with that and prefer easier stories. I’m not saying that’s bad, the Lord knows I like watching the Demon Slayer fights too, but I am saying that a lot of the criticism is invalid because people don’t bother or want to learn more. Mushoku Tensei will always and forever be one of my favorites stories that has affected me the most.
Im a little bit triggered you used KnY just to say the whole point was flashy fights... The whole point was to show everyone has/had struggles and a story to tell. Even the demons. Didn't you see the siblings story? Or how Tanjirou is empathetic to the siblings even though their demons?
@@LucyFerr000 I do think one could draw a potential comparison between MT and DS based on the fact that they both try to show all the villains as not being purely evil, but I don't think that such a comparison really works, and I'll explain why Simply put: DS just doesn't have the good writing needed to pull it off. A core difference with MT is that EVERY character, both good and evil, has character traits that are treated as good and bad (with the notable exception of man-god, who still has at least believable motivation). The main characters, supporting characters, female leads, and villains alike are ALL mixed bags of good and bad, and it makes it very clear that people (man God isn't a person) are not black and white, and that good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things. Even the best people have things they don't want to share, and everyone has skeletons in the closet. MT puts in the work to make us care about Paul and see that just because he cheated on his wife doesn't mean he's inherently bad and he accomplishes a lot of good in his life too. Rudy is a perverse piece of shit at the beginning of the series, but also actively showcasing his qualities in preventing and stopping bullying to Sylphie, and being an EXCELLENT tutor to Eris that genuinely wants to see her succeed, learn, and enjoy doing so. MT puts in the necessary work to actually show that there's no such thing as pure evil or good in a person DS does NOT put in this work. The main character is a goody two-shoes who can do zero wrong, all of the supporting characters "faults" either arms treated as such or are just ignored or played for comedy, and the villains are not seen to be redeemable in the slightest, ONLY doing purely evil things, and then throwing some sappy backstory and expecting the audience to give a shit. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you have good qualities or did in your past if you don't act on them at least some of the time, and DS doesn't understand that. Having reasons for what you do or an explanation for how you ended up here that aren't purely evil are not enough to make you a sympathetic character when all your actions ARE evil Hell, even tanjiro started to get fed up with all the demons "sympathize with me" bullshit starting with that one tiny dude who kept running away in season 3, so it's not even being consistent with what it's TRYING to do I still watch and enjoy Demon Slayer, but pretty much only for the pretty lights and animation
This is a good video, I like your take on the matter. Although, if you are also basing the discussion on the events in eps 23 from the LN, I think you should consider that Roxy gave up on doing that. That would give more idea about their consent.
9:57 damm finally someone who agrees with me, he definitely was not able to give consent in that state of mind, even in the LN version. 10:50 I think we can say that Roxy saved him. Yes we don't have definitive proof but that's clearly what the narrative is implying and if a kid is inside a house on fire and a firefighter rescues them, we don't go saying "well maybe somehow the kid could've escaped", we agree that the firefighter saved his life. 11:07 probably yes. From Rudeus' side, definitely, he agrees she saved him. From Sylphie's side, yes, as she said that she would've done the same. 14:09 actually he probably did, he put Rudeus in a specific situation to give him a second wife without Rudeus going out of his way to do so. Meanwhile Roxy was given a situation that called for her to have sex with a married man to save his life. Why would the author do this without the purpose of making it like "there was no other way"? 20:30 this is a misconception, when Sylphie mentioned him getting a misress, Rudeus' said "“I have no plans of doing that right now.”, staying monogamous was more of a promise to himself than to Sylphie. Also, a relationship is an ongoing process, things can change and what matters is that you are honest. After Rudeus' state of mind improved, he didn't keep having sex with Roxy during their travels. He decided to marry her and came clean to Sylphie and asked for permission. It would be wrong for Rudeus to force Sylphie to accept the deal, but he didn't. Requesting an update to your relationship status is not wrong when there's honestly and transparency. In real life married couples sometimes end up opening their relationships as well, this is not considered wrong or cheating. 25:00 as you say, sometimes the ends justify the means. In this case it did. I had issues with the pregnancy lie but more because I don't think Rudeus has to be manipulated to do the right thing, I honestly see this more of a Rudeus' character flaw and Elinalise's. If the ends justify the means then she did nothing wrong. If you need to kill millions to save billions, you did nothing wrong. I feel like you are in the middle of consequentialism and deontology, you should choose the moral system that you prefer because this weird middle ground you are using is just confusing and nonsensical. You can't use deontology to say that what she did is bad and then use consequentialism to say that the ends justified the means this time so you forgive her, make a decision, either what she did was bad because the action itself is bad or what she did was not bad because of the consequences and there's no need to "forgive her"
I just love how so many people scream about how immoral (some of) the stuff in MT is, but simultaneously don't complain about the deluge of other stories, that have at least similarly, if not worse(!) elements in them, that are immoral or d*g3n*rate. Remember Attack on Titan? Almost nobody complained that the MC literally commited g3noc*de! Apparently, when stories OTHER than MT do immoral stuff, the context SuDdEnLy starts to matter. lol
No, no, you don't get it, all Eren was trying to do was kill millions of people, which is obviously not nearly as bad as sexual assault, so it's okay /s
I really do think the thing that puts people off of MT is the way we only get stuff from rudy's perspective more than anything and the fact that people generally view any kind of sexual assault to be a far worse crime than murder
@@BisonKamuy-up5dl The fact we usually only get Rudy's perspective in the anime makes me recommend the light novel so much. Simply because of all of it's perspective shifts and understanding what the characters around Rudy are thinking and feeling. The School arc became easily top tier from being able to understand the POV of Sylphie and how she interacts with Ariel, Luke and Rudy And LN 12 had some context that S2 EP 23 could have had. Roxy's perspective was critical in that part of the story
@@BisonKamuy-up5dl It's a very complicated matter, actually. Many people just can't put Rudy's actions and attitude behind them, because they made themselves believe, that what he did was unforgivable. Most of the stuff he ""did"" though, were just thoughtcrimes. And when he actually ACTIVELY did something horrible or perverted, the story usually made him regret it immediately afterwards (either by having him get beaten up for it, or having him apologize or something of that kind). There is this widespread claim among the haters, that he ""gr*0med Sylphie, which just objectively isn't true for several reasons. But the biggest point of contention, in my opinion, and the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT point is, that the haters just have a completely different perspective on this than the people who like the story, is Rudy's AGE. They claim, that he is a 40yo in the body of a child and that's why his relationships with other children (who are physically his age, or in case of Eris even older than him) are pdf-file. There are several things, that need to be untangled about this: 1) Rudy is by no means mentally mature. This is not only the case, because his cognitive developement got stuck at a certain point in his previous life, because of him becoming a shut-in, but it is also due to Rudy now being in the body of a child. His phyiscal reality does also influence how he acts and feels (hormones, how other people treat/see him, you yourself would also revert to being a child [at least to a certain degree], if everyone treats you like one and you also interact with other children all the time) ----> Therefore, claiming that Rudy is an "fully grown adult" is a gross oversimplification of the situation and is in fact WRONG. 2) [VERY spicy topic incoming!] Children also have "certain" urges. Rudy cannot be in a relationship with a grown-up, when he himself is only a child, that idea would be ridiculous. So, if you actually think about how someone in that situation would deal with this, it's very obvious, that he would rather be drawn to someone his age. This does not mean, that he is a pdf-file. There simply are not other options for someone, who has hypers3xual tendencies, like Rudy. Sure, I do not condone his actions, but it's yet again an oversimplification of what's going on in the story, to simply conclude, that Rudy is into children. He is not. He only has s3xual relationships with women his age, or older over the course of the story! 3) Considering the context of the story, where the age of consent is lower than it is in our societies and where the elites are pretty d*g3n*rate, one can hardly claim, that Rudy is THE horrible one. Him groping other people without their consent is bad, but it is pretty mild compared to how some other people in this world act. Again, context matters. The haters just keep screaming, that he is a....that word that rhymes with grape - ist....., but is he actually? In the context of the story he never was. Sure, he did p*rv*rted stuff, but he always suffered the consequences for this. And he didn't initiate doing it with Eris....SHE did! He actually was reluctant (and for good reason!), but gave in, because he was too much of a push-over. All of these misconceptions combined just create this seemingly insurmountable wall between us and the haters. They just see stuff from their modern perspective and ignore ALL the context of the story. There is no way to help them out of this. I've tried too many times. They NEVER understand. And also, and this is really funny, tbh, they are completely unwilling to FORGIVE a character's past actions. Rudy has grown immensely as a character, but they still harp on about stuff that happened at the very beginning of the story (which they mostly just failed to understand.) and about how he needs to get punished. Apparently, they aren't Christians and don't believe in forgiveness 😜
Aoe3 youtuber I've been following a while now has this channel too and makes a video on my fav story of all time? Count me in lol Small world. Found this on accident I do hope you'll upload some aoe3 too at some point. Been a minute.
I haven't even opened aoe3 since january. I got to a point where I just stopped enjoying the game, and made this channel and a monster hunter one instead but good to have ya viewing me again! it is a small world indeed and reading this made me smile
I just wanna speak up about Q8 and your example of 2 minors sexually exploring each other. At the very least in the US there are the Romeo and Juliet law which basically just means teens between the ages of 15-19 may of consensual sex as long as the age gap is no more than 2 years so no it wouldn't be statutory rape if a 17 yr old and 18 yr old or even a 19 yr old had sex. To my knowledge, the majority of western nations have similar laws. Your example still shows its point and I Understand it. Interesting questions but I do think you focused too much on the morality of sexual acts and even the sexual acts of Rudeus specifically which I don't think is a very honest and complete picture of morality in the show.
Romeo & Juliet laws don't exist in japan. (where the author lives) And the age of consent was lower in the 2010's when it was written. (web novel) So why even bring up the american judicial system of the 2020's into the conversation. Just so random.
Also, Romeo and Juliet laws are not a federal thing and not all states have them. That said, even in states that don't, prosecution in those cases is still quite rare and usually only happens when there's already another charge.
I think the ending of S2 distracts people from the other poor decisions Rudy makes. Specifically, I am referring to Aisha. Rudy says that he views her as Norn's equal, but he was quite willing to compromise her future networking opportunities to have her mop floors and hang draperies for him. Rudy's words say he views her as his sister. His actions say he thinks she's illegitimate and someone he can use and manipulate. As to the ending: I had my immersion completely broken by it. Rudy struggled with ED for most of S2, and was never actually that close to Paul, especially as a child. Almost all of their positive relationship happened on Begaritt. It makes no sense for Rudy to be that distraught, and if he were, he would not have been able to perform when Roxy approached him. I think this is a case of bad-faith writing, where the author wanted to set up Rudy having a harem, so Roxy's actions are framed as saving Rudy so there is moral plausible deniability. However, the rest of the series does not give that plausible deniability; all the way back in S1 when Lilia got pregnant, Rudy was painfully aware that Paul's cheating nearly destroyed their family. So what you have here is a Chekov's Anti-Gun where the protagonist gets excused from familial strife we saw early on in the series because he has plot armor.
The entire way that the author went about making the relationship between Roxy and Rudy (at least as its presented in the anime) felt so contrived. First of all Rudy looks just like Paul so how is Roxy surprised its him that saved her? And her ideal type just so happens to be him before she knew it was Rudy? How very convenient. So we now have this flimsy excuse for why Roxy is horny for Rudy but Rudy promised Sylphie he wouldn't take another. So now we have to create enough of a traumatic experience for Rudy to allow him to go back on his word without any real repercussions related to his decision. That's what makes it so annoying. I always see people saying that the consequences were Rudy losing his dad and mom becoming a vegetable but those things happen independent of his infidelity and poor decisions. They're essentially the reason why he cheated. Not to mention the implication that sex cures depression, the writing was very sloppy this season.
And yea the way he deals with Aisha is so strange. Like this girl clearly grew up being indoctrinated by her subservient(and literal maid/servant) mother into believing that its a good thing to be a child maid and essentially wanting nothing else from life, and Rudy is just like, "go for it sis!" He's her caretaker now and does a shit job at encouraging her to live her own life outside of subservience. I get that Rudy is not perfect or whatever but man the writer just really makes him out to be a real piece of shit sometimes without realizing imo
@@Petard01 I think the idea is that Rudy "saved" Aisha's life back when Lilia was pregnant with her, so she owes him everything, and her perfect score was supposed to show that school would be a waste. Except that school offers more possibilities than learning and Norn probably would not have shut down had Aisha been with her.
@@jameshinds2510 I think it's very indicative of Rudy's and maybe even the author's childish perspective that school would be a waste just because she got that score. Her already being smart should encourage him to nurture that further in an environment made for that e.i. school.
The whole point of paul's death is to show that he truly did care for him, even after spending most of his life without him, he truly saw him as a parent, as a father. The point of it is that just as rudeus starts realizing how important paul was to him, paul lets himself die to save rudeus. if anything, the fact that rudeus' reaction to pauls death was less than that of his ed would be more an immersion-breaker in my eyes. I do agree that roxy's writing was rushed to add her to the harem, but I'd recommend reading the comment by popers1328 under this video, I think it was a great analysis of roxy's character during that situation. It doesn't change that it was used for moral plausibility as you said, but I hope it helps you get a different view on the situation overall.
I love that you claim to have read the novel. But dont bring up how DRASTICALLY different the actual cheating was in the book compared to the anime They villainized Roxy
I probably fully agree with you about Roxy being unjustly villainized, but to give some defense to justify why he didn't say it. From his arguement, it makes no difference. Rudy was depressed and can't consent, therefore what his actions were didn't matter, it still wasn't consent in either version. I don't agree with this of course but if the claim is that any consent he gives doesn't count on account of his depression, then the way he consented doesn't matter.
Thank you for the comment! And yes, I kinda get where you're coming from, but I had my reasons for leaving it out of the video. I have read the LN, but tried to keep the comparisons to a minimum, since I am of the opinion that the LN and anime should be judged on their own merits by the stories they tell, and that context from the other should never be necessary, even when telling the same story. I agree to an extent that Roxy's actions were painted in a worse light in the anime compared to the LN. I also don't see any issue in that since I don't think in EITHER version she is being depicted as villainous. I think Sylphie accepting Rudy's apology hits harder in the LN where its less SA coded, but that Sylphies acceptance of Roxy into the family hits harder in the ANIME for the same reasons. But I never brought that up because it's not relevant to what I was talking about, which was the moralities and ethics presented IN THE ANIME. Roxy in the anime version of the story did a bad thing, but as mushoku has been telling us over the ENTIRE SERIES, that doesn't make her a bad person, or a villain, or someone we shouldn't empathize with, or fall in love with, or marry, ect. Both work for the themes of the series, it's just that one is a stronger beat for Rudy and the other is a stronger beat for Roxy. I think I muddied the water and opened myself up to very fair criticism in this regard of not bringing up the differences by talking about Elinelise's gaslighting of Rudy, and that it was a significant mistake to discuss it at length. I've made an addendum comment pinned at the top of this comment section clarifying that as well as slight opinion changes of mine in the months since this video's release. Thank you for the comment
Hello viewer, this comment is an extra addendum to the video with some corrections and extra thoughts I've had, since in the months since the videos release, and after experiencing and reading the story again, some of my opinions have changed, others have become even stronger, and I realized I made a couple mistakes throughout the video that should be kept in mind.
The simple fact that no matter how many times I read or watch this series I find new ways to think about it, come to new conclusions, and find details I missed before further cements WHY this is my current favorite work of fiction. I am not the same person that I was 5 minutes ago or 3 months ago, and the series impacts me in a different way every time I experience it, and I love it for that
now, some mistakes in my video. At the beginning, I brought up the opinion that I believe a story should be able to convey everything necessary without having to know the source material, and that any given story should be evaluated on it's own merits. I still firmly believe this, that the light novel and anime, despite telling the same story, are 2 different independent works of fiction and should be judged thus. A lot of people like to bring up in episode 23 that there is cut context that Rudy has spent 3 weeks starving himself in his room after Pauls death, and that there is a conversation in the LN between the other characters about what to do about him. I stated that none of these details or specifics were vital to convey exactly, because we can see and infer from Rudy's gaunt appearance and his past actions in similar situations that he's in bad shape and has been starving himself in his room, but that perhaps a throwaway line to confirm that wouldn't have hurt. I said that overall, the anime told this aspect of the story good enough that the LN context isn't necessary to make the scenes work. I still stand by all this and think that I did a good job FOR THE MOST PART, discussing ONLY the anime presentation of events. For example, I didn't once bring up how in the LN, Roxy has a MUCH stronger case against the claim of SA due to the differences, or how Rudy strongly hinted that he's from another world, ect. However, I think I made a mistake in regards to my discussion of Elinelise, as I mention more than once in the video that in the LN she gaslit Rudy into thinking that Roxy was pregnant in order to force the marriage, something I was deeply uncomfortable with, but ultimately accepted during my time reading the LN. But that colored my opinion of her in the anime that wasn't fair, and I think in the context of a video ABOUT THE STORY THE ANIME REPRESENTS, I was a little harsh on her. Since rewatching, I find I don't see her push for Roxy's marriage as particularly aggressive like it was in the LN, and don't feel she really did any wrong in the context of the anime. She just followed up on Pauls conversation teaching Rudy about polygamy, and guided him in a direction for him and Roxy to get what they both want. She still did something INCREDIBLY fucked up in the LN, and again, I still love her as a character and think she makes a good member of the family, but I will absolutely admit that she is a notably better person in the anime (her biggest lie is of course still to come however)
I've also changed my mind in regards to Rudy's conduct with Sylphie. I still do stand by the fact that ESPECIALLY IN THE ANIME, he has a pass for sleeping with Roxy due to the nature of SA as discussed in the video. I also still believe that his greatest crime is not seeking a second wife, but breaking his promise to Sylphie, and he was absolutely right to apologize to her. I also think he's more guilty of this in the LN where its much less SA coded, and is a stronger story beat because of that when Sylphie decides to accept Roxy anyways. However, I no longer see my claim that Rudy should have discussed the possibility of being poly prior to talking to Roxy about it as being correct. After experiencing the story again, I've come to the conclusion that the order of which he approached each of them about the marriage is largely irrelevant. He had the talk with Sylphie, and everyone agreed, and that's all that mattered. He desired a change in the rules of their relationship (after he had admitedly broken them), apologized for his indiscretion, and discussed his desires for change and why. I see absolutely zero issues with Rudy's conduct during that conversation and broaching the subject of being poly.
Lastly, I just wanted to put an EVEN BIGGER DISCLAIMER on the bit about medical consent, as I really do think that while thinking in that regard is valid for an in universe justification for Roxy's actions in-universe, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should such a line of thought ever be brought up to the real world, since what it amounts to is doing mental gymnastics to find justification for SA, which is never okay. It is however, I think, a legitimate thought experiment in-universe, even if the ultimate conclusion I arrived at is that it didn't matter. Again, it's important to remember that it's possible to acknowledge that an action is justifiable in universe without forgetting that it would NOT be acceptable in our own.
That's all. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and listen to the video. Love ya'll!
it costs nothing to not stop, its free to post, keep going with the vids
only thing that took me so long with this one was waiting for a video I really wanted to make XD
hopefully the next one will come sooner
This is one of the most thoughtful commentaries on that scene I have ever seen. You're a very careful, analytical, and compassionate informant. I would like to see more from you.
thank you so much!
I liked that you explained one of the "barriers" of the anime about Rudeus' sexual assault tendencies to a literal kid. It is definitely understandable that people will think of Rudeus as a bad / annoying character and also have the same bias to people who decided to still read and see Rudeus's transformation and character development.
The world-building here is great and I believe if the author changed Rudeus personality to be not such a perv then more people would read and watch his story. However, I believe the author does not care to tell a story that caters to the majority of the people. He just wants to tell Rudeus' story. With all the good, the bad, and everything in it.
Just like in life, Rudeus is not a perfect character, Pau is not the perfect dad, Eris is not the perfect love interest, the author is not a perfect writer and the fans are not perfect people. I truly believe people are missing out because they did not give Rudeus, a flawed character, change and grow for the better just like how the rest of us want to do for ourselves. Great video!
thank you much good sir! I'm really happy with how this one came out. Please consider sharing it!
What's make rudeus unique compared to other Isekai protagonist is that the world never revolve around him and reality always slap him to the face. Despite being an op character, he gets nearly gets killed by people who are weaker than him but more experience than him.
@@BoscoSal-aodespite being "OP", some old lady bitch slaps him and his entire squad before getting rescued by someone else. He is OP compared to maybe the average Joes from the Six-Faced World, but not much in the grand scheme of things. He's rooted in the understanding of his own shortcomings and trying to improve. Actual character development, not just new hair color when MC yells new stuff at random new evil person
@@LudwigVaanArthans I agree, as a matter of fact his daughter is the one who actually the one who save the world.
Daaaamn bro, you really should keep doing this, i thought you had more videos, doing something like this on your second video is really impressive. Keep it up
@@Lexus_-nr5hh thank you much!! I do have more videos actually, just not on this channel lol. I have a monster hunter channel
You’re telling me this is only your second video? Please continue to make stuff like this! This video went through every nook and cranny of the situation and it was awesome. You got a new subscriber.
@@varietystamps4419 I mean on this channel yes, but it's not my first channel. Took a lot of years for me to feel like I have any amount of polish lol
@@BisonKamuy-up5dlwell the years show lol. Do you have any other Mushoku tensei stuff planned?
@@varietystamps4419 I don't have anything planned. You may have noticed, but there a 7 month gap between my first and second video. I only make a video when I feel particularly impassioned and feel like I need a script and video to sort my thoughts
TBH, nothing in this particular anime season is having this kinda effect on me, so it'll probably be at least a few months again
Thank you very much for this video. It was enlightening, and you did your best to cover as many angles with as many logical and emotional points as possible. It's also cool that you still left room for personal interpretation in case someone didn't agree with any points because this series can be very uncomfortable at times depending on how you look at it. I didn't necessarily have any problems with the content matter and presentation of the show, but I was reading intent of characters and the in-between-the-lines stuff. I'm glad there's a video to help lay out similar thoughts in a helpful manner.
@@ipromisenothing thank you much! I like to use my videos as a way to help sort my thoughts sometimes, and I do my best to share my opinions without enforcing them
In a world without psychology, no medicine to treat mental illness, and where most of the characters are illiterate I find it hard to judge the situation. Booze and women is 99% what most people would have though of back then. Plus, they were basically stuck there without Rudeus aid, and we are talking about a man that holed up in his room for over a decade in his previous life after being bullied, and who spent 3 years with ED after he was dumped. I think the threat was real. If you ask me, the book sets up the situation in a brilliant way. It makes it feel like when stranded people eat their dead. It's reproachable but understandable.
Anyway, you said you would judge the anime by its own merit but mentioned details from the book... If you were going to do that you might as well have added in how it happened in the books too. That it was Rudeus who pushed Roxy down (overwhelmed by the soothing feeling), all Roxy did was give her consent. It's a big contrast from the anime.
Yeah I came to this conclusion as well after some time passed since this video and realized that bringing up Elinelise's gaslighting was a mistake. I've added a pinned comment working as an addendum acknowledging that, as well as some very SLIGHT changes of opinion in the months since I've made the video. Thank you for the comment, it's very valid.
This is one of the rare occasions where an 18+ story requires you to actually be mature and thoughtful. You have to be someone who has their beliefs cemented and who can separate reality from fiction, or one context from another. As someone that loves history, this is an issue you see a lot when immature people try to judge the past. They try to apply modern morality as if the world back then was the same as it is today (and get offended when it differs). They forget so much of what shapes our modern views are relatively recent creations (like the advent of: human rights; abolishment of slavery; modern medicine, genetics, technology and law; availability of food and water; suffrage, etc). A lot of character behaviors and beliefs in MT are almost directly copied from somewhere in human history.
Great video, after finishing season 2 I actually went and bought 1-10 of the LN and am currently halfway through vol. 8. I look forward to seeing any future videos you make pop up in my feed.
@@thewolfgirlexpert enjoy the books it's a fantastic read
A fair warning, I'm not s consistent uploader, since I only make videos that I really want to and feel I have something relevant to say. My previous video before this was 7 months ago. But I appreciate the subscription all the same!
@@BisonKamuy-up5dl No problem, and trust me I've subscribed to creators with worse schedules!
I am thoroughly enjoying them so far, especially the different character perspectives not shown in the anime. I'll be looking to order 11-20 here soon!
You have to make more video essays. This tickled my brain and was very entertaining to listen to/watch while video editing! definitely looking forward to seeing more content from you
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on Mushoku Tensei this story is amazing in my opinion👌
I'm gonna bet you'll succeed one day with that kind of videos, keep going. As your 146th subscriber.
Thanks for the sub!
I think the only point where Elinalise crossed the line was lying about Roxy being pregnant.
My interpretation is that she saw that deep down Rudy wanted to be with Roxy, but that he would have stuck to his principles if she let the situation be.
So she talked to him and tried to convince him it's okay, but he still couldn't accept it. Bringing up Roxy being pregnant was a brilliant way to change Rudy's outlook on the situation as it immediately changed the way he thinks.
Up to that point it's okay. But she should have come clean immediately after, she already got Rudy to change his way of thinking and telling him that she's not pregnant wouldn't have changed that. It honestly feels a bit out of character for Elinalise not to tell him.
The only reason I can think of is to ensure Rudy doesn't get cold feet when it's time to tell Sylphie the news. But to me keeping the lie going is where she crossed the line from changing Rudy's way of thinking to outright manipulating him.
Um, it was not the first time Elinalise lied. Recall what she said about Zenith when she first met Rudeus. She probably felt that Paul's current party was enough and she really didn't want to see Paul so she lied through her teeth about Zenith's state so Rudeus wouldn't drag her to Paul. Even Rudeus mentions at some point that Elinalise sometimes lies to him, but what she told him there just made too much sense. Honestly, she really got me too, since it seemed so plausible.
@@mikeluna2026 I don't think she knew the exact situation Zenith was in at that point.
Kishiraka told them Zenith is in Rapan but I can't really get a good look for some reason, or something along those lines.
Not to say Elinalise would never lie, but the fact she knew exactly how this lie would affect Rudy's decision and going through with it is what I take offense with. She essentially made the decision for him and that's a step to far.
I've come to agree with this assessment over the months since making the video. Guess I'm just another example of how people can change :D. I also think bringing up the lie about Roxy's pregnancy was a mistake in a video where I had tried to keep it just about the anime since I expressed that I believe the LN and anime are each their own work of fiction and should be judged on their own merits, even when telling different stories.
doesn't change the OTHER things she's lying about, though thats a topic for season 3 lol
This was honestly a great watch, can’t wait to see you become famous dawg
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The UA-cam gods have blessed me with brilliant videos. May the sun shine of you with eternal fortune
I've loved the video, both your take on the situation and the MT as a whole. With the internet filled with so much mindless shit slinging from both MT's haters and lovers and I'm happy to see a well-articulated opinion so close with my own. I would love to see your thoughts on other aspects of the series.
Great video that's pretty well thought out, but I have to give some major pushback as well. It's not just for the sake of defending Roxy, but I think it's a defining moment for her character and very critical to understanding Roxy's story and the way she views love. Note, I haven't read the novels, just parts of the chapter in question as well as having heard some things about it from other comment sections. Primarilly, I'm not convinced that Rudeus' depression makes him completely incapable of consent and I think it is unfair to both Roxy and Sylphie to say so. While it is true that he was emotionally distressed, he seemed to be perfectly fine cognitively. He was fully responsive, giving arguements, and completely aware of the situation. I'm not sure if you can take away someone's responsibility and agency just because they are emotionally disregulated, and if you can, I don't think the line is where you drew it. If instead of pushing down Roxy and having sex with her, he instead punched her in the face, would you still say he isn't responsible for his actions because he was depressed and emotionally compromised? I don't think so. That being said, Rudues was in an emotionally compromised state that made him pliable and susceptible to manipulation. I am fully willing to say that taking advantage of that state in order to convince someone to have sex with you is a form of SA. The question is, did Roxy "take advantage?" I say no. I think of it like a power dynamic. Just because a power dynamic exists, doesn’t mean something wrong has happened. It is only wrong when the power dynamic is used against one person for the benefit of the person with the power. Take this example, Person A is dating Person B. They are both at Person A's house and Person B lives far away and has no vehicle or means of getting home other than Person A. That is a power dynamic. If Person A says "have sex with me or I won't give you a ride and you'll be stuck here," then that is an abuse of power. If Person A says "I want to have sex but if you don't that's fine, just tell me when you want a ride home," then that power dynamic still exists, but there is no abuse because Person A respected Person B's agency. While it's true that Roxy has something to gain by sleeping with Rudeus because she loves him, I see no evidence that it was her primary motive. She tries a number of different ways to try to cheer him up first, she invites him outside, she empathizes with his grief, and when that doesn’t work, she hugs him. That's not trying to convince him to have sex, she's trying to avoid that outcome if she can. It's only after Rudy grabs her that she says he can do it if he wants to. Even her reaction to hearing that Rudeus was already married is "my feelings aren't what is important right now." And for Rudy's part, it wasnt like it took a long time for him to process and recover to feel some responsibility for cheating, it was literally his very first thought when he woke up.
"Roxy admitted to it." True, but she was wrong, as was Lillia when she claimed that Paul was innocent when he cheated. They both want to take the blame. Lillia claims Paul is innocent because she seduced him. This isn't true and they are both to blame. Roxy claims Rudeus is innocent because she took adavantage of him. Just because Roxy said it doesn't make it true. She was trying to sacrifice her feelings so that Rudy doesn't have to suffer any of the guilt of cheating. And boy does Roxy like making sacrifices, especially when it comes to her own feelings.
Roxy has always been someone who shows her love through sacrifice. She thought she was a burden to her parents so she made the sacrifice of distancing herself and becoming independent. She HAND WROTE an entire textbook on Demon God language just because Rudy asked for a bit of help. After the mana disaster, she immediately abandoned her (albeit shitty) job just to go look for Rudy. She passed up the opportunity to get a demon eye just to get more information on the location of Rudy's family. Rather than try to meet with him (knowing that he was depressed and this was the perfect opportunity to save him and earn some browinie points) like she wanted to, she decides to let him focus on himself and go to Ranoa so SHE can save go Zenith in his place. She spent SIX YEARS of her life looking for his family. And after all that she was fully ready to step aside and let Sylphie have him. I think that Roxy's first sexual experience with the man she loved, which she thought would be the only one, being violent and painful is an extraordinary sacrifice that represents her love for Rudeus in a carnal and powerful way. I think that's what was meant to be represented by that scene in the novel and is the core of her character. The narrative that Roxy took advantage of or SA'd Rudeus doesn’t feel like it can be true because Roxy is not a character that behaves selfishly.
This is by far the best analysis I've seen of roxy's character in this situation. Wow.
@Andrew-hm8no I appreciate that, but there are some clarifications and even some misinformation that I want to correct.
1. Roxy did not quit her job because of Rudeus. The only line in the anime referring to her quitting is a statement by Zanoba, but someone else pointed out to me that it was made very clear in the novel. Roxy quit because of Pax and only learned of the displacement incident while on the road to visit Rudy before she started looking for more work. Still, she did drop everything to go searching for him when she did find out about it.
2. This is only an explanation of the way she loves, not selflessness or self-sacrifice as a general character trait. There is no indication that she behaves this way for strangers, just people she cares about. To put it in psych terms, her love language is acts of service. She seems to truly enjoy doing services for the people of Buena Village, even if she is being paid for it.
3. While I do believe that their sexual experience was metaphorically a sacrifice of her body for Rudy to vent, that is only my interpretation of the narrative subtext of the scene and is in no way attributable to Roxy's understanding of that event. After all, she felt guilty over her ulterior motives and she had no way of knowing that Rudeus would be rough with her. It seems that Sylphie prefers it that way and it's very possible that Roxy enjoyed it greatly, even if her goal was mainly to heal Rudeus.
Is that god damn mischievous alchemy that i hear? Hell yeah, pass a list of songs, i got a couple.
Great video! It's super interesting to see all the perspectives of this situation. I personally consider it was a selfish action performed by Roxy and Rudius marrying her is even more selfish. It's fascinating how the anime nudges us to empathyse with Rudius because the viewer and Rudius know how important Roxy is. At the end those selfish acts is why the stort is so enjoyable. You see people in complicated situations and how conflicted Rudius is, truly demonstrate he's taking his new life seriously.
Subscribed and hope to see another from you!
yes it is mischivous alchemy!! aight, heres a song list, in order
1. "happy to you" from the Age of Empires 3 soundtrack
2. a track with a japanese name I can't read from the mushoku tensei season 1 soundtrack (it plays during episode 9 when traveling across the demon continent)
3. "next to you" a soundtrack song from the anime Parasyte: the Maxim
4. "mischievous alchemy" from kingdom 2 crowns ost
5. "ashen crown" also from kingdom 2 crowns ost
6. "tomorrows island" also from kingdom 2 crowns ost
7. shinobu's theme from the anime Nisemonogatari
8. "the blue archer" once again from kingdom 2 crowns
9. "waltz of loneliness" from the anime adaptation of Black Rock Shooter
10. "the first layer" from the anime Made in Abyss
Nice analysis, I shall follow you Mr. Bison. I put Golden K on hold but perhaps I'll get back into it. Perhaps the source material though. Excited to listen to your other essay. Cheers
About Elinalise's lies and manipulations. In a vacuum of course it is wrong because wisdom of ages teaches us that on average such behavior causes harm more often than not. But you should consider a context and the particular outcome. Can it be wrong if outcome is positive? If her actions caused different outcome, than sure. People may object that "well, that's because author wrote it that way, not fair" which can lead to "writer teaches reader bad things". But, is reality we live in corresponds to the principle that lies always lead to bad outcome? No. Or we would live in black and white world where everything is so easy and predictable.
This is something that I notice often in regard to MT critique, is that people focus on something that can be called morally wrong in a vacuum but ignore completely the effect it actually has on everyone involved. You can lie and save life, you can try to save life and doom to death specifically due to your involvement. I don't think that intention should be hold in higher regard than outcome. And in this particular situation we have an example of good intentions and good outcome. Means are questionable, but since everyone is happy in the end it means that it was right solution for this particular situation, these particular people.
253 likes with over 3k views is all I needed to know at first. Then I watched the full video and that 253 made sense lmao.
This was an interesting watch
Great video! I’ve been a fan of Mushoku Tensei since the first episode. After season 1 release I read all the LNs. I get people not liking it because they’re not cool with some the of stuff it portrays, but it upsets me a little when their criticism is about as hypocritical and surface level as it gets. MT gets so much hate just because it dares to show things as different shades of gray instead of black and white. People make mistakes sometimes. I’m not excusing bad choices and actions, but I am saying that people can learn and grow and change. Some people don’t seem to agree with that or aren’t able to understand that. I think it comes down to a fundamental difference in outlooks on life and ways of thinking. I’d like to think my way of thinking is better, but honestly who’s to say? I think a lot of people don’t like to grapple with morally gray areas because it’s not as easy a watch as Demon Slayer where the whole point is really only flashy fights. It takes a little more to connect and get the most out of a story like MT where it’s not afraid to show some ugly things, because people actually do ugly things. Some people just don’t want to deal with that and prefer easier stories. I’m not saying that’s bad, the Lord knows I like watching the Demon Slayer fights too, but I am saying that a lot of the criticism is invalid because people don’t bother or want to learn more. Mushoku Tensei will always and forever be one of my favorites stories that has affected me the most.
Im a little bit triggered you used KnY just to say the whole point was flashy fights...
The whole point was to show everyone has/had struggles and a story to tell. Even the demons. Didn't you see the siblings story? Or how Tanjirou is empathetic to the siblings even though their demons?
@@LucyFerr000 I do think one could draw a potential comparison between MT and DS based on the fact that they both try to show all the villains as not being purely evil, but I don't think that such a comparison really works, and I'll explain why
Simply put: DS just doesn't have the good writing needed to pull it off. A core difference with MT is that EVERY character, both good and evil, has character traits that are treated as good and bad (with the notable exception of man-god, who still has at least believable motivation). The main characters, supporting characters, female leads, and villains alike are ALL mixed bags of good and bad, and it makes it very clear that people (man God isn't a person) are not black and white, and that good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things. Even the best people have things they don't want to share, and everyone has skeletons in the closet.
MT puts in the work to make us care about Paul and see that just because he cheated on his wife doesn't mean he's inherently bad and he accomplishes a lot of good in his life too. Rudy is a perverse piece of shit at the beginning of the series, but also actively showcasing his qualities in preventing and stopping bullying to Sylphie, and being an EXCELLENT tutor to Eris that genuinely wants to see her succeed, learn, and enjoy doing so.
MT puts in the necessary work to actually show that there's no such thing as pure evil or good in a person
DS does NOT put in this work. The main character is a goody two-shoes who can do zero wrong, all of the supporting characters "faults" either arms treated as such or are just ignored or played for comedy, and the villains are not seen to be redeemable in the slightest, ONLY doing purely evil things, and then throwing some sappy backstory and expecting the audience to give a shit. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you have good qualities or did in your past if you don't act on them at least some of the time, and DS doesn't understand that. Having reasons for what you do or an explanation for how you ended up here that aren't purely evil are not enough to make you a sympathetic character when all your actions ARE evil
Hell, even tanjiro started to get fed up with all the demons "sympathize with me" bullshit starting with that one tiny dude who kept running away in season 3, so it's not even being consistent with what it's TRYING to do
I still watch and enjoy Demon Slayer, but pretty much only for the pretty lights and animation
This is a good video, I like your take on the matter. Although, if you are also basing the discussion on the events in eps 23 from the LN, I think you should consider that Roxy gave up on doing that. That would give more idea about their consent.
9:57 damm finally someone who agrees with me, he definitely was not able to give consent in that state of mind, even in the LN version.
10:50 I think we can say that Roxy saved him. Yes we don't have definitive proof but that's clearly what the narrative is implying and if a kid is inside a house on fire and a firefighter rescues them, we don't go saying "well maybe somehow the kid could've escaped", we agree that the firefighter saved his life.
11:07 probably yes. From Rudeus' side, definitely, he agrees she saved him. From Sylphie's side, yes, as she said that she would've done the same.
14:09 actually he probably did, he put Rudeus in a specific situation to give him a second wife without Rudeus going out of his way to do so. Meanwhile Roxy was given a situation that called for her to have sex with a married man to save his life. Why would the author do this without the purpose of making it like "there was no other way"?
20:30 this is a misconception, when Sylphie mentioned him getting a misress, Rudeus' said "“I have no plans of doing that right now.”, staying monogamous was more of a promise to himself than to Sylphie. Also, a relationship is an ongoing process, things can change and what matters is that you are honest. After Rudeus' state of mind improved, he didn't keep having sex with Roxy during their travels. He decided to marry her and came clean to Sylphie and asked for permission. It would be wrong for Rudeus to force Sylphie to accept the deal, but he didn't. Requesting an update to your relationship status is not wrong when there's honestly and transparency. In real life married couples sometimes end up opening their relationships as well, this is not considered wrong or cheating.
25:00 as you say, sometimes the ends justify the means. In this case it did. I had issues with the pregnancy lie but more because I don't think Rudeus has to be manipulated to do the right thing, I honestly see this more of a Rudeus' character flaw and Elinalise's. If the ends justify the means then she did nothing wrong. If you need to kill millions to save billions, you did nothing wrong. I feel like you are in the middle of consequentialism and deontology, you should choose the moral system that you prefer because this weird middle ground you are using is just confusing and nonsensical. You can't use deontology to say that what she did is bad and then use consequentialism to say that the ends justified the means this time so you forgive her, make a decision, either what she did was bad because the action itself is bad or what she did was not bad because of the consequences and there's no need to "forgive her"
I just love how so many people scream about how immoral (some of) the stuff in MT is, but simultaneously don't complain about the deluge of other stories, that have at least similarly, if not worse(!) elements in them, that are immoral or d*g3n*rate.
Remember Attack on Titan? Almost nobody complained that the MC literally commited g3noc*de! Apparently, when stories OTHER than MT do immoral stuff, the context SuDdEnLy starts to matter. lol
No, no, you don't get it, all Eren was trying to do was kill millions of people, which is obviously not nearly as bad as sexual assault, so it's okay /s
@@MarcHarder 🤣 Good one!
I really do think the thing that puts people off of MT is the way we only get stuff from rudy's perspective more than anything
and the fact that people generally view any kind of sexual assault to be a far worse crime than murder
@@BisonKamuy-up5dl The fact we usually only get Rudy's perspective in the anime makes me recommend the light novel so much. Simply because of all of it's perspective shifts and understanding what the characters around Rudy are thinking and feeling.
The School arc became easily top tier from being able to understand the POV of Sylphie and how she interacts with Ariel, Luke and Rudy
And LN 12 had some context that S2 EP 23 could have had. Roxy's perspective was critical in that part of the story
@@BisonKamuy-up5dl It's a very complicated matter, actually. Many people just can't put Rudy's actions and attitude behind them, because they made themselves believe, that what he did was unforgivable. Most of the stuff he ""did"" though, were just thoughtcrimes. And when he actually ACTIVELY did something horrible or perverted, the story usually made him regret it immediately afterwards (either by having him get beaten up for it, or having him apologize or something of that kind).
There is this widespread claim among the haters, that he ""gr*0med Sylphie, which just objectively isn't true for several reasons.
But the biggest point of contention, in my opinion, and the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT point is, that the haters just have a completely different perspective on this than the people who like the story, is Rudy's AGE. They claim, that he is a 40yo in the body of a child and that's why his relationships with other children (who are physically his age, or in case of Eris even older than him) are pdf-file. There are several things, that need to be untangled about this:
1) Rudy is by no means mentally mature. This is not only the case, because his cognitive developement got stuck at a certain point in his previous life, because of him becoming a shut-in, but it is also due to Rudy now being in the body of a child. His phyiscal reality does also influence how he acts and feels (hormones, how other people treat/see him, you yourself would also revert to being a child [at least to a certain degree], if everyone treats you like one and you also interact with other children all the time) ----> Therefore, claiming that Rudy is an "fully grown adult" is a gross oversimplification of the situation and is in fact WRONG.
2) [VERY spicy topic incoming!] Children also have "certain" urges. Rudy cannot be in a relationship with a grown-up, when he himself is only a child, that idea would be ridiculous. So, if you actually think about how someone in that situation would deal with this, it's very obvious, that he would rather be drawn to someone his age. This does not mean, that he is a pdf-file. There simply are not other options for someone, who has hypers3xual tendencies, like Rudy. Sure, I do not condone his actions, but it's yet again an oversimplification of what's going on in the story, to simply conclude, that Rudy is into children. He is not. He only has s3xual relationships with women his age, or older over the course of the story!
3) Considering the context of the story, where the age of consent is lower than it is in our societies and where the elites are pretty d*g3n*rate, one can hardly claim, that Rudy is THE horrible one. Him groping other people without their consent is bad, but it is pretty mild compared to how some other people in this world act. Again, context matters. The haters just keep screaming, that he is a....that word that rhymes with grape - ist....., but is he actually? In the context of the story he never was. Sure, he did p*rv*rted stuff, but he always suffered the consequences for this. And he didn't initiate doing it with Eris....SHE did! He actually was reluctant (and for good reason!), but gave in, because he was too much of a push-over.
All of these misconceptions combined just create this seemingly insurmountable wall between us and the haters. They just see stuff from their modern perspective and ignore ALL the context of the story. There is no way to help them out of this. I've tried too many times. They NEVER understand.
And also, and this is really funny, tbh, they are completely unwilling to FORGIVE a character's past actions. Rudy has grown immensely as a character, but they still harp on about stuff that happened at the very beginning of the story (which they mostly just failed to understand.) and about how he needs to get punished. Apparently, they aren't Christians and don't believe in forgiveness 😜
Aoe3 youtuber I've been following a while now has this channel too and makes a video on my fav story of all time? Count me in lol
Small world. Found this on accident
I do hope you'll upload some aoe3 too at some point. Been a minute.
I haven't even opened aoe3 since january. I got to a point where I just stopped enjoying the game, and made this channel and a monster hunter one instead
but good to have ya viewing me again! it is a small world indeed and reading this made me smile
I just wanna speak up about Q8 and your example of 2 minors sexually exploring each other. At the very least in the US there are the Romeo and Juliet law which basically just means teens between the ages of 15-19 may of consensual sex as long as the age gap is no more than 2 years so no it wouldn't be statutory rape if a 17 yr old and 18 yr old or even a 19 yr old had sex. To my knowledge, the majority of western nations have similar laws. Your example still shows its point and I Understand it. Interesting questions but I do think you focused too much on the morality of sexual acts and even the sexual acts of Rudeus specifically which I don't think is a very honest and complete picture of morality in the show.
@@plzdonttellanyone4243 good point! Thanks for your thoughts
Romeo & Juliet laws don't exist in japan. (where the author lives) And the age of consent was lower in the 2010's when it was written. (web novel) So why even bring up the american judicial system of the 2020's into the conversation. Just so random.
Also, Romeo and Juliet laws are not a federal thing and not all states have them. That said, even in states that don't, prosecution in those cases is still quite rare and usually only happens when there's already another charge.
I think the ending of S2 distracts people from the other poor decisions Rudy makes. Specifically, I am referring to Aisha. Rudy says that he views her as Norn's equal, but he was quite willing to compromise her future networking opportunities to have her mop floors and hang draperies for him. Rudy's words say he views her as his sister. His actions say he thinks she's illegitimate and someone he can use and manipulate.
As to the ending: I had my immersion completely broken by it. Rudy struggled with ED for most of S2, and was never actually that close to Paul, especially as a child. Almost all of their positive relationship happened on Begaritt. It makes no sense for Rudy to be that distraught, and if he were, he would not have been able to perform when Roxy approached him. I think this is a case of bad-faith writing, where the author wanted to set up Rudy having a harem, so Roxy's actions are framed as saving Rudy so there is moral plausible deniability. However, the rest of the series does not give that plausible deniability; all the way back in S1 when Lilia got pregnant, Rudy was painfully aware that Paul's cheating nearly destroyed their family. So what you have here is a Chekov's Anti-Gun where the protagonist gets excused from familial strife we saw early on in the series because he has plot armor.
The entire way that the author went about making the relationship between Roxy and Rudy (at least as its presented in the anime) felt so contrived. First of all Rudy looks just like Paul so how is Roxy surprised its him that saved her? And her ideal type just so happens to be him before she knew it was Rudy? How very convenient. So we now have this flimsy excuse for why Roxy is horny for Rudy but Rudy promised Sylphie he wouldn't take another. So now we have to create enough of a traumatic experience for Rudy to allow him to go back on his word without any real repercussions related to his decision. That's what makes it so annoying. I always see people saying that the consequences were Rudy losing his dad and mom becoming a vegetable but those things happen independent of his infidelity and poor decisions. They're essentially the reason why he cheated. Not to mention the implication that sex cures depression, the writing was very sloppy this season.
And yea the way he deals with Aisha is so strange. Like this girl clearly grew up being indoctrinated by her subservient(and literal maid/servant) mother into believing that its a good thing to be a child maid and essentially wanting nothing else from life, and Rudy is just like, "go for it sis!" He's her caretaker now and does a shit job at encouraging her to live her own life outside of subservience. I get that Rudy is not perfect or whatever but man the writer just really makes him out to be a real piece of shit sometimes without realizing imo
@@Petard01 I think the idea is that Rudy "saved" Aisha's life back when Lilia was pregnant with her, so she owes him everything, and her perfect score was supposed to show that school would be a waste. Except that school offers more possibilities than learning and Norn probably would not have shut down had Aisha been with her.
@@jameshinds2510 I think it's very indicative of Rudy's and maybe even the author's childish perspective that school would be a waste just because she got that score. Her already being smart should encourage him to nurture that further in an environment made for that e.i. school.
The whole point of paul's death is to show that he truly did care for him, even after spending most of his life without him, he truly saw him as a parent, as a father. The point of it is that just as rudeus starts realizing how important paul was to him, paul lets himself die to save rudeus. if anything, the fact that rudeus' reaction to pauls death was less than that of his ed would be more an immersion-breaker in my eyes.
I do agree that roxy's writing was rushed to add her to the harem, but I'd recommend reading the comment by popers1328 under this video, I think it was a great analysis of roxy's character during that situation. It doesn't change that it was used for moral plausibility as you said, but I hope it helps you get a different view on the situation overall.
I love that you claim to have read the novel. But dont bring up how DRASTICALLY different the actual cheating was in the book compared to the anime
They villainized Roxy
I probably fully agree with you about Roxy being unjustly villainized, but to give some defense to justify why he didn't say it.
From his arguement, it makes no difference. Rudy was depressed and can't consent, therefore what his actions were didn't matter, it still wasn't consent in either version. I don't agree with this of course but if the claim is that any consent he gives doesn't count on account of his depression, then the way he consented doesn't matter.
Thank you for the comment! And yes, I kinda get where you're coming from, but I had my reasons for leaving it out of the video. I have read the LN, but tried to keep the comparisons to a minimum, since I am of the opinion that the LN and anime should be judged on their own merits by the stories they tell, and that context from the other should never be necessary, even when telling the same story.
I agree to an extent that Roxy's actions were painted in a worse light in the anime compared to the LN. I also don't see any issue in that since I don't think in EITHER version she is being depicted as villainous. I think Sylphie accepting Rudy's apology hits harder in the LN where its less SA coded, but that Sylphies acceptance of Roxy into the family hits harder in the ANIME for the same reasons. But I never brought that up because it's not relevant to what I was talking about, which was the moralities and ethics presented IN THE ANIME. Roxy in the anime version of the story did a bad thing, but as mushoku has been telling us over the ENTIRE SERIES, that doesn't make her a bad person, or a villain, or someone we shouldn't empathize with, or fall in love with, or marry, ect. Both work for the themes of the series, it's just that one is a stronger beat for Rudy and the other is a stronger beat for Roxy.
I think I muddied the water and opened myself up to very fair criticism in this regard of not bringing up the differences by talking about Elinelise's gaslighting of Rudy, and that it was a significant mistake to discuss it at length. I've made an addendum comment pinned at the top of this comment section clarifying that as well as slight opinion changes of mine in the months since this video's release. Thank you for the comment