Do You Even Care About Chops?! 🙄 (As A New Drummer)
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- Should new drummers care about 'chops', or is groove the goal?! SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL for more great free drum lessons, tips, advice and cool product reviews.
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The word ‘chops’ continues to excite some 😃…and annoy others 🙄 Drop your thoughts below, y’all 🧐
I need help in the Kitchen they can chop all they want.
The line about 32-nd notes is brilliant😄
Chops = vocabulary. The more vocab = greater variety of sentence structures
Agreed!
I like this. Music is a language, playing with other musicians is a conversation. Chops not only provide more and tastier musical choices but also an effective communication skills!
About restraint: in the late 80’s I saw a Kenny Arnoff clinic at guitar center and OMG! I never saw him do anything like that with John Mellencamp. Literally I was like holy smokes you can play like that???? But where he made his money was slapping the backbeat on 2&4 all the way to the bank.
That's what i was taught That's why you make your money at
I’m 73, playing since 12 years of age. Gigging regularly with two bands, subbing with others.
I’ve continually worked on my chops. And, will continue to do so.
Your Tshirt I occasionally wear to load- ins, exemplifies the fact, it’s not showing off your ‘chops’, it’s responsibly “serving the song”!
Thank you, Rob Brown, for your teaching and inspiration !
Fills bring thrills, groove pays the bills. Chops are good ways to develop skills to incorporate into groove.
I've been playing for the past 10-12 years focusing mostly on groove and keeping time. Now I'm working on chops. Don't regret a thing.
Your right on the money. My father was a Nashville Pro (not a drummer) the old saying "less is more" is how he usually played on show or session and he had tremendous chops.
Now I'm a old drummer (almost 70) and the chops don't come as easy as they once did, however unlike a lot of the young guys, I still get the call because I know what and what not too play.
My biggest concern about all young players is they don't expose themselves to many different types of music, regardless of which type they are primarily interested in. Really enjoy your channel.
I agree with Rob.Learn the rudiments and develop your chops,groove responsibly and develop your musical vocabulary.
Really listen to other musicians you play with and be aware of the different styles and situations you may be in.
Taste comes with maturity,but above all enjoy what you do.
Few drummers have developed their own chops, we copy allot from others. The key is to put them in your grab bag and use them as the music dictates. I've been playing for 45+ years and laying down a solid foundation, groove is key. Knowing when the music needs a particular fill should come naturally (assuming you have lots of chops in your grab bag).
I've been playing bass for 16 years, but it's the drums that got me interested in music. I discovered bass after I learned about drums, still love it, but a couple months ago I realised that I only play bass because I fkin love playing with amazing drummers. It's the drums that keep me going after so many years. this insight made me super interested in learning how to play properly, so I started watching lots of videos and holding sticks much more often than before. so I'm here in the comments.
mr Brown, thank you for your videos and the style. I love this extremely sarcastic but extremely kind guy. resonates a lot. I'm totally subscribed to this channel man
Bass player here (30 years gigging, very little studio time). Yeah chops are welcome when and where needed, but could some of you drummers give the rest of the band some room to play? While you are at it 'dynamics' so the singer doesn't have to scream all night. Just a bass players opinion said with love and humour. Locking it down with a solid drummer in a live setting is a spiritual/religious experience. The stage is my church and the rhythm section is my religion. Liked and subscribed.
I am a self taught drummer. I am 51 and was never able to actually have the ability to actually dive in to the architecture of progression in drumming. Now, for the past year and a half of study and practically sleeping with my practice pad, chops have a whole new appeal. Aloha
I like how the official definition didn’t include what Aaron Spears or Thomas Pridgen do.
Most people think “chops” mean just blasting away at your fills with speed not yet seen.
That’s not the case. You demonstrated how it can be defined as “groove” or “pocket” or any other beat that serves the songs and keeps your phone ringing.
Great vid as always, my brother! Love that new kit too.❤️😎
Solos bore me out of my mind, and even fills should be kept to strict minimum in my opinion, but I'm at a point now where I realize I'm gonna need a whole lot of technical ability to make those grooves sound good.
I am a new drummer. Been at it for about a month, a bit more perhaps. Still working on fundamentals. Singles and doubles. My motivation comes from two places. A thing Sugarfoot once said about working with Michael. He said that most people practice something until they get it right, but Michael wanted them to practice until they couldn't get it wrong. The second one is understanding from other things in my life how important the little stuff really is. I refuse to progress beyond boring stuff on a pad until I've got my singles and doubles as good as they're going to get. After a month + they should be pretty good, but I notice little improvements practically daily still. Still trying to really find my technique. Last few days I've been experimenting with middle finger fulcrum rather than index, and that's in a good bit to do with your videos. I've been watching a lot of them lately and every one seems to teach me something, even when it's not something i'm interested to practice right NOW. I'm not moving on until I can beat that 20 minute 4800 doubles video. :D Thank you for your effort at helping us.
That doubles video is so helpful.
I don’t comment often but I dedicated 20 minutes every day for a year to playing along to the 4800 video and I couldn’t be happier. The best investment of my time I have made since starting about 3 years ago
I don't give a damn crap about chops. But i'm jealous of those that got em. 😅LOL✌
Seeing chops from time to time is cool but as a soon to be 21 year old with an old soul I find myself playing more with a funk/hip hop style where grooving is the main structure of the song but being able to throw in a complex fill that isn’t to much or over bearing just my couple of two cents 😂
Look up Max Sansalone here on UA-cam. In onenof his videos he explains how important dynamics and consistency in dynamics are in a funk/groove context, to make the groove breathe, to make it funky, like Soul Brother #1 put it. So even if you never play a single fill, the chops have their place
@@MarimboKingoh ok thanks for the recommendation, chop’s definitely has their place for sure
Mr Brown is a very wise man he talks a lot of honest sense ! He also can back it up you’ve heard play . I’ve been playing 50 years myself and was always striving to play lots of different styles from jazz metal country funk and soul it’s gives you scope and the ability to apply slightly different techniques to different styles of music and sometimes someone notices that your actually pretty good at what you do .🤞👍
When I read the title, the first word that came to mind was "discipline" -- so glad you said that. What's important? Playing the SONG. I love playing songs where I get to kill it 3 ways to Sunday, like when I was in a prog metal band. But keeping an awesome and consistent groove with an awesome group of musicians that requires independence of limbs and the discipline to know what NOT to play are some of my favorite memories performing, playing songs like Even the Pain by the Yellowjackets with extra percussion toys mounted on my kit. BTW, love that variation on the "worship beat" at 6:37, lol.
Well said. Music is like cooking. Different ingredients make a dish, and when used in a proper way, people will come back for more of it, because they know it's good. Cheers, Rob! 👍🏻👍🏻✌️🇨🇦
Exactly. Just enough salt makes it pop. But too much is
No bueno . Knowing the right amount to sprinkle is the key
For me it’s worth it to keep developing my technique, and things like fills, solos, intro, endings, for groove more displacements, ghost notes etc. At some point I’m sure i’ll hit diminishing returns when it comes to playing in bands, but it’s still nice to develop your skills. Rob, I like the “headroom” statement, that is how ai feel about what I’ve learned already.
Chops are a guilty pleasure I indulge in behind a closed door! I’m blessed after 4 decades of playing to still be called by various people for the space I leave in the music. But it’s been a lifetime journey to get to a point where I’m valued by other musicians for what I *don’t* play on a gig.
It’s a different landscape for kids now. We don’t have a music ‘industry’ of the 80s & 90s. There was a time when players could exist on being anonymous session musicians on union rates. That’s gone now. Today seems to be about getting noticed within the confines of a 30 second video clip. Revenue streams are no longer based on selling physical media. Attention spans are short. Going on social media is like getting unlimited free tickets to the circus. There are plenty of young performers hungry for validation by followers and ‘likes’. Chops seem to be the final frontier in turning exposure into ad-revenue streams. In effect, it’s like Meta and Google saying, “perform your circus tricks on our platforms and justify our advertisers paying us big bucks to reach millions!” This in itself fuels yet another revenue stream for selling the idea to youngsters for ‘secrets’ to shortcuts for playing faster quicker. So a whole new sector across all instruments has grown from producing infinite content based on circus tricks which are essentially, musical chops on steroids. The pursuit of hemi-demi-semi-quavers for a percentage of corporate advertising revenue is now King. I’m not the target audience so it doesn’t affect me psychologically. I’m comfortable with who I am as a player, I have nothing to prove to other drummers because I get the calls for money to do traditional work. But I feel for kids who are faced with endless video clips presenting them with a belief system of “this is what I’ve got to be” in order to be valued as a person playing a musical instrument. The mental turmoil and severe anxiety this can cause for a person with not much life experience does worry me.
i love the way you explain. thank you Mr. Brown.
well as a new drummer this year I have learned a lot. I started with lessons on a practice pad and after 6 months bought a drum set. So now you made me realize I am working on my chops. I am a fan of all drumming. But this video proves you should never stop improving to make the easy stuff look even easier! I love your idea of headroom so one can add a little bit of spice to their playing style.
This video explains the subject in the best manner that I have ever seen..Bravo Dr.Brown!!
The essence of maturity is learning to look beyond self and serve something greater. In doing so, you progress further than you could have by focusing on yourself.
This is true generally in life.
Amen. This may be my favorite video of yours. And I would argue chops do not always equal speed. Good chops have accuracy, focus, and dynamics, regardless of the tempo. As a drummer, I am very far from being a chop master, but the chops I do have, they have greatly helped me expand my musical language and find my own voice as a musician.
I concur that you have to develop your vocabulary and be able to execute your skills on any instrument. Rob mentioned a key word discipline. Knowing when and what to play. I remember when I decided to go back to college after touring and recording with a popular artist in the 70's . I was in a percussion class and the instructor asked me to solo over the music that the ensemble was going over. As I began to solo my class mates stop playing. I was disturb because I thought I was killing my solo. After class the teacher pulled me to the side and said your skills are above your class but playing music is like having a conversation. You might have a bigger vocabulary but are you communicating with the band and making the ensemble sound good. It is something I share with my students and fellow musicians. Great topic Rob Brown.
Hey Rob awesome channel! Quick question....Do you have any recommendations for me playing drums with live guitar looping? We have come across issues with the loop getting buried beneath his lead and slight tempo inconsistencies, mainly from start/stop of loop.
Solid, measured advice all round. 🙏🙏🙏
Very good this information 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
The best 🥁👊🏾
Those drum sticks are loved! Miss between chops and groove IMHO.
Groove and pocket is everything
Always excellent advice! I’ve picked up more gigs because the previous drummer over played everything and/or was always solo’ing. Often times…less is more 👍
Nailed it!
Great video, I love the groove you were playing. I would tell new drummers to practice "chops" and you can expect them to show up promptly in your drumming YEARS LATER...😂
Advice for drummers with chronic back pain. I have 58 years experience but only 8 years of chronic back pain. I bought the Offset eclipse double Bass Drum Pedal and it is the best thing I should have done long ago. It solved my ergonomics. I have chronic back pain and this pedal allows full access to all of my drums without twisting my body causing pain resulting in longer playing time. I would highly recommend this pedal to anyone with chronic back pain. If you don't use a double drum pedal I still recommend it. No more twisting your body to reach your snare , high hats and floor toms. I don't think there is any other thing you could do to positively affect your ergonomics in a better way.
just saw the title - on that alone I can say no - but I do care about groove - but the problem is that groove is very very difficult and impossible to develop unless the musician knows what he is looking for
Could not agree with this more. Bloody well said.
Correct is right,great personal info.
Don't let your ego get the better of you 🎉
Great video Rob. For all the young starters out there - take it from a guy doing it 40 years, “chops” are not only job-security for future jobs/gis; but most importantly (imo) is what takes drums from something you just bang away on, to a “music instrument”. 🇨🇦 🥁
Good advice
I believe everything must have balance. Grooving and chops work hand and hand, at some point, you'll be asked to go for it, and if you don't have any chops in the bag it makes you limited.
I play multiple instruments... Both chops and groove/feel are important! It is like what acoustic guitar is to electric guitar! One feeds off the other! The more acoustic guitar one plays the better one gets on electric guitar and vice versa. One reason for this is it is harder to get your CHOPS on an acoustic guitar with more string tension. Then you try those same licks on an electric guitar. So in essence one gets better on both instruments. So, yes chops are equally as important as groove and meter...
Rob You're too funny!! I really like this channel!!
Good video, Rob,
I guess the takeaway from this is not to become blinkered into one style of playing.
This in itself can mean that you end up "pidgeon-holing" yourself by not being willing to try out
say jazz playing or fusion or anything else apart from say pop or rock playing.
Earlier on in the piece, I used to be exactly like this and to a degree, you just stop learning, which is not
good at all.
Rob you're the best man 🤘
Rob you make me laugh a lot! Even my wife digs ya man. You are a funny guy but give out lots of wisdom at the same time! We love ya man! Keep up the fantastic work!!
What are the differences between the Paiste Signature Dark energy 21 in ride vs The Paiste 602 Mod. essentials Ride 22 in. And the Paiste Signature Dark energy 21 in ride MK I vs Paiste Signature Dark energy 22 in ride MKII? Which do you like best of all and for all around playing?
I agree, im a Metal Drummer, but i played a couple years regaae and Blues, it helps you a lot ;-)
For me, the more I get into drumming, the more Im not getting into fills/chops. Aside from I cant do them well, I just consider it a mental roadblock and I just want to get the song over and done with. I only use fills as "turn signals" for myself or if theyre part of the composition (ex: Lars' snare fill in Sad But True or Sorum"s Pat Boon Debby Boon in Use Your Illusion)
Absolutely develop those chops! Groove and chops gets the best gigs! Take a tune like "China Grove," it seems simple and straightforward enough, but when you hit those fills like those two drummers, the song just takes off. The band feels it and ultimitely- the audience. And that is what we get paid for- getting that audience to move!
Yep, absolutely. "Chops" and groove go together. Flow and ease of motion, ability to create nuance in all kinds of ways. Great video
Be like water my friends! Practice makes improvement! Thanks for the great videos!
hey rob, wanna ask you abt smt. is it okay to play with a click everyday?
Nice Video!
Good groove should always be first - Chops should be secondary - it looked & sounded to me that you were focused more on the groove than the chops - very impressed
I'm 58
At the age of 21 I was playing in a Hard Rock band where I really developped my chops.
But at the drumming school I learned how to play all kinds of different music that led me on to play in all kinds of situations.
And I wouldn't be playing this coming saturday in a Clearance Clearwater tribute at a rock festival if I didn't have chops, discipline and all the groovy rudiments.
Allways learn New things. Music is a life long journey where you should allways thrive to get better...
Good points here! Digging the the new police poster. Speaking of chops, what is that you play around 6:06?
1:09 hahaha
The more chops the merrier!
It takes chops to play grooves, and you need vocabulary to play hits and not interrupt grooves, or pocket.. Steve Gadd is obviously the perfect example. Imo the question should be about dynamics, and space, leaving room for other musicians. Too often at open mics I go to it reminds me of politicians talking over one another and not listening. Its more like everyone just wants those "look at me" moments. Learn to be supportive, leave space for everyone musically, if you can do that everything else falls into place.
Why would anyone argue about developing chops?
I had a discussion with a student about chops vs groove, and he said "all my teachers including you told us to learn all the rudiments, so we did".
That kind of sums it up. If you preach rudimental theory like Joe Morello did, you can't blame drummers for using them and employing them.
Speaking of which, you should make a Chopzilla hoodie or shirt 😂😂‼️
Thanks Rob, great advice, to all of you out there on the journey of improvement, check out the teachings of the great Alan Dawson, with special attention to the Rudimental Ritual 🥁
Chops, nailed………. I’d take headroom though 👍👍
I thought it was the younger ones who aren't impressed with chops and the older ones who enjoy seeing it because older guys have been to concerts where they witnessed those amazing 10 minute drum solos played on monster kits.
I agree 100%. Chops = headroom. Be a fully-rounded musician. Thanks for another great video!
Definitely continue to work on your chops, just don’t try to fit them all into every song lol! Being a drummer myself I can only take a couple of minutes of soloing before I’ve had enough! Also those Yammies of yours sound awesome 👏 cool 😎
If by 'chops' we basically mean 'rudiments' then yes absolutely you need to develop them and if you haven't been, you need to get yourself a practice pad, go back to the very basics and watch some of Rob's playlists.
Does that sound boring or intimidating?
I don't know but I'll tell you that I've been working on my hand technique for 3 years after almost 30 years as a drummer and it's not only improved my groove MASSIVELY but I've also had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. Seriously, even if you just sit in front of the tv and work on your single stroke roll (with metronome' it eventually becomes something you'll CRAVE on a regular basis.
I can't stress enough, get a practice pad, practice with a click and learn those rudiments!!!
Who are these people who are telling kids they are making a sport out of drumming??? Have you not seen Jeff 'Tain' Watts????? or Marvin 'Smitty' Smith??? Those guys are goin INSANE!
Wait a minute, what was that filthy fill at 6:05 ?!?!
I have been drumming for 15 years and I don’t even know what “Chops” are yet. Not because I haven’t heard it before but because I just don’t care. I just practice rudiments and hands for so many hours that I end up not even having time to practice other things.
35 yrs??🤦♂️. Smh on that. Hope i get somewhere close to that time frame. Sounds really exciting. 🤙
I'm always slow when it comes to chops.
Is it true what they used to say that the word "chops" comes from when aspiring musicians used to practice in the wood shed, where all good chopping should start!?
Regardless of the genre of music, one should play exactly what the song requires- nothing more, nothing less.
Chops! Laying down some dirt, so that singers and soloists can plant some flowers!!!
Laying down a solid groove is 100% more important than any amount of chops. A groove drummer makes the song feel good, while the chops drummer shows off and oftentimes ruins the song.
You can focus on groove and be very successful. But chops are also just fun. Expanding your vocabulary and bettering yourself is way more fun than playing the same beats over and over. It all depends what you are playing the instrument for.
We as bass players don't need drummers over playing, neither the other members. There are guitars and singers for a reason. The VU didn't need more than a basic drum to revolutionize music. I get it, chops are great, but being creative is more important.
Just a good thing , to have in your tool box , just case you need it.....Chop on my brother Chop on...
Where does one start?😢
All these war videos popping up, I thought this was one for a second. I was trying to figure out who the chops were.
Difficult fast chops are healthy for sure, but I think the unfamiliar patterns found all over the place (esp in the Afro-Cuban sections) in "The Drummer's Bible" have been more useful for me. Some of these chop youtube guys should call their channels HowToGetFiredFromTheBand.
that 32nd note joke was amazing. 😅
Neither grooves nor chops will matter if you can't pimp pocket.
Same headroom concept is true for other instruments too.
Nicely done - yes, totally agree
Gimme a dude who grooves and plays what is needed with some sweet minor embellishments, and THEN when it's tome to rip, RIP.
OR, keep that vibe and use space to make it interesting. Either is wonderful. Chops aren't necessary until you need em. So work on em!
You summed up my thoughts with the 32nd's 30secs thing... there is a guy I see making the rounds on tiktok ppl are swooning over, and I swear all the guy does is matching gun double base, sounds like an a10 unloading. 10 secs it's already boring, same thing over and over and over.... just put ice picks in my ears already.
We absolutely need to develop our chops.
(in my humble opinion)
But drummers that are motivated by chops alone are simply motivated by pride.
The ego is a no go.
CHOPZILLAS .... BRUH .... Funny LOL
Work on your pocket. The chops will come. Pocket is where it's at. This is coming from a guitarist who hates playing with flashy drummers with no feel.
I think you should try to make music on the drums.
As Bruce Lee would say,,,become like water
Save the chops for ya pops.
30 second chops because after 30 seconds we are sick of hearing them.
Amen!