A 3 Pin Fixture That Does All The Work -- You'll Enjoy This One !!
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- With a basic understanding of how chamfered surfaces behave on the end of a rod, fixture design can be simple and effective for locating holes and features on an ellipse. This one is worth watching.
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When a kid in class asks, why do we need to know math? Show him any of Joe's videos. This trade is so underrated.
This isn't really math right here. This is just basics. What these kids need to do at an early age and even those at any age that wants to learn, is to study GEOMETRY more than anything else. Of course knowing Algebra 1st. Sliding into TRIGONOMETRY will be much easier for those who have the the basics down 1st....Just my thought as a user of all these. Note: CALCULUS is another that should be taught early on...
As I've heard many mathematicians say "maths is for the lazy. You don't figure out how to solve every problem one by one, you figure out how to solve ALL problems the same way." And do you know, they're right. The amount of formula that you see repeated in the industry is amazing!
@@wildin13 Yeap, the repeatability is called the "canned functions". Great example is Mastercam and on just about every HAAS machine the functions are right there for you. That's why I LOVE both worlds of machining. One for production and the other for making one offs and to make sure it gets into production...Smile, it's All great Stuff 👍.
Unfortunately I have found most to teachers teaching trigonometry are doing it under sufferance and have no idea of its practical application or how to teach it and pass on their lack of knowledge.
This is shop arithmetic.
The thing about a lot of these wonderful lessons. Is that once you see them, they really make sense. But the amount of thought and trial and error by the first few people that figured the stuff out was often very high. So keeping these techniques alive, and sharing them with others is a huge help to everyone.
There are a few people who figure out this stuff as a matter of course. We call them geniuses.
Math is probably one of the most important subjects of all subjects.
Definitely a mental toolbox tool. I really enjoy watching you bring analytical geometry and trig to life. As always! Very well done.
Joe, I love the maths as used in machining.
Thank you for being one of the very few who present practical applications that inspire us to relearn, retain and use maths in our setups.
Thank you Joe for another extremely valuable lesson. And I truly appreciate the simple tips like ‘set up the height of the table for your longest tool’. Seeing all of this in action just burns it home 👍👍😎👍👍
Food for my brain Joe. I took trig 65 years ago and don’t use it enough even though calculators make trig really easy. Thanks for the stretching exercise. Cheers, Will
Thanks again, I always learn something when your on
Glad to help.
Hey Joe,
One of your favorite expressions, "that's all I've got", as always, seems wildly understated. Thanks once again Joe.
I love fixturing and you are one of the only guys covering the topic. Thanks Joe.
I did a lot of Gage making/ inspection with compound angles and tooling balls. It sure is easy to get bogged down in math and all the other "little" details! Good stuff!
Absolutely fucking boom. You don't need my comment to affirm your excellence, but I hope you hear how much we appreciate your effort. Thank you for everything you do.
Thanks for the comment. Glad to do it.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and practical experience with us. I learn a lot from your videos. Keep it up and I appreciate you Joe!
You are such a gentleman for sharing your knowledge. Thank you for the great ideas!
My pleasure!
I learn something new every time I watch your videos. Thanks Joe, love your videos.
Another Professor Pie lesson. Very nice. Thank you sir.
Thank you for taking the time to educate us. It is appropriated.
Excellent as per usual Joe.
Thanks for sharing.
I don't know what to say,except thanks for your efforts we appreciate them🤗😎🤗😎
Another great video, thanks Joe. A simple solution to a difficult problem.
Yet another outstanding video Joe. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
Hi Guy. Thanks for checking in.
You had to calculate where your pins were going to be located based on the rod’s diameter/radius? Correct?
Thanks Joe! Yep, gave me a headache, but i got it! Amazing!
Hi Joe, I often have to drill similar holes in a small part I make. Like the idea of using the pin. Mine are not high precision, till now I have used a level on the bevel face and rotated till level, but will look at using a pin fixture. You constantly prove we are never to old to learn. Keep up the great work.
Always a treat to see you my friend. You always have something interesting to come by for an old, retired machinist to pass the time remembering when. 3 pin set ups are such a great way to find that spot like here or to straighten out a bend and a few other setups I can think of. They are inherently strong gripping as well. That was great !
Thanks for the comment.
Luv it…”mental toolbox”….mine has lots of rust😳😂😂…tks for sharing
Hi Chuck. I'm with you on the rust content. Stay well bud.
Another excellent video that shows a solution to a seemingly simple task. :)
At 7:20, I would have sworn that base plate was a piece of scrap particle board with a white laminate. Maybe from an old kitchen cabinet. ;-)
So it wasn't just me, thinking the same
Coincidentally, I happen to have a garage full of scrap cabinets. freshly pulled. Yay :(
Glad someone ask this question, if I now run into these issue, your explaining and showing how to approach it will come in handy.
I have been trying to self study machining from my fathers shop he gun smithed in I'm starting to get a clue about the lathe . I'm in Galveston county Texas This set up is genius I look forward to learning a lot from you I subbed immediately.
Welcome aboard. Feel free to ask questions.
Truly appreciate your lessons like these. Layout, fixtures, & methods are really helpful to us mere mortals! Thanks Joe!
Glad you like them!
just saw this, very informational. Never got this information when I was interning. Now I just need to match up my math, thanks for sharing!
The master of his trade proves it again. Things I should of been tough in school was never shown like this. The best thing is I found the teacher on you tube that I wished I had when I was in school.
Quite a compliment. thanks.
Outstanding Joe!
Thank you! This is perfectly what I have to build for quick and reliable length measurement of angled pins. I was thinking way too complicated.
Glad it was helpful!
You make it look so easy.
Very nice application for a one-off, multiple variations or a big run. Not too complicated, relatively easy to apply. Thanks for another gem to put into the mental toolbox.
I've watched so many of your videos, I've only commented a couple times. I just wanted to say every video of yours I've seen has raised the bar. Wish I could do a tenth of what you show in your videos. Always good stuff. I hope to retire in a few years. You'll be the driving inspiration in my machining hobby.
Another Great video, JoePie. Please keep them coming!
Dear Joe,
thank you very much for posting this video. I am not sure when I will need this but along with the video showing how to make an angle block I have mentally stored it for future use. Thank you.
I don't know if I'll ever use this, but if I need it I'll be glad I learned it!
All you need to do is remember the concept.
Super handy and could easily be laid put in CAD to get exact hole locations. Still a handy method with CNC even.
Pretty tricky laying it out without CAD !
@@MidEngineering Yeah my math brain doesn't have the juice otherwise.
Another awesome lesson! Thank you Sir!
Glad you liked it!
Great video! It's a pretty small thing, but I'd love to see an example of the small toe clamp setup you say you'd use at 11:03 to rotate into place to secure the part. You explain it more at the end of the video, but it's the mechanics of how you would design it to clamp the part in (and overcome concerns of friction of the clamp being stronger than the friction of the part against the reference pin and not allowing it to properly seat/nest!) that I'd find most valuable. You did say a toe clamp, so a wedge? But you also mentioned rotating it into place, so a cam/eccentric? Or Mitee-Bites or similar? So many choices!
eccentric washer with a small machine through it. Rotate the washer so it pushes the part, lock the screw.
I took Trig and Elementary Analysis as well as two Geometry classes during my last two years of High School. It took a long time before I felt like they were useful classes. Your videos always confirm it.
Like the air in your lungs if you are a machinist.
I appreciate this so much! Thank you Joe!!!
I’m thinking I would mill a shelf on the lower portion of the jig so the angle block is applying the upward force from the jig and not the vise bed. That might make the clamping a little easier to deal with.
It’s a keeper.
It definitely solved the problem.
Well done Joe!
Another sharing of a clever solution. Sharing knowledge is priceless. Thank you.
thanks for your continued comments. Much appreciated.
very cool fixture, thanks
Great stuff as always Joe! This channel is a gold mine. 👍
Glad you enjoy it! Thank you for your continued positive comments.
Thanks for the video Joe.
Many thanks for the tips.
Thanks Joe for keeping it simple!
Love watching you solve these things!
Two questions:
When you located the holes, you chucked each tool and moved it to the three locations, then switched tools, etc. Is there less chance for error, even with a DRO, to do all three operations at each location before moving to the next? I know you know what you are doing, I’m just curious.
Second, I’m guessing that the condition of the bottom face of the plate is irrelevant because the angle block is establishing the angle relative to the table.
Its a 50/50 on how you approach this. if you know and trust your machine, moving 3 times in close proximity and only changing tools 3 times can be quicker. If a quill depth stop is involved, there is no guarantee it will be the same for all 3 tools, so keep that in mind. But, staying on location for all operations is also a very good practice. Your choice. As for the fixture, starting with a piece of material you know is square is important. If you're unsure, use the stationary jaw as your reference plane and make sure the plate seats on that. A parallel plate is best too.
Gotta love Trig!! Thanks for the amazing videos Joe!!
Hello again Joe, I just love your theory lessons and the practical proof demonstrations that follow. Blessings.
Its good to why something works. It give you other options.
Thank You
I struggled with Trig and Geometry as taught in school until I had to use it for part layout and C&C programs on the 70s when a simple calculator was a big deal
Same here. I did not care about math in school. Then I became a machinist. Now I just think in geometry.
Math, as taught out of context with practical application, is difficult to absorb.
Thanks Joe!
Hi John. Thanks for stopping by.
As someone who cannot afford all the cool tools you have my method would be to chuck the cylinder up in my ancient Craigslist purchased lathe, drill a small hole in the center just slightly deeper than the depth of the slope I plan to mill on the face, mill it leaving a little dimple of the drill hole visible which will now be in the center of the ellipse then clamp it in my cheapie Chinese drill press at 30 degrees and using the dimple as a guide drill my final hole. Maybe I am over simplifying but us poor folk with meager incomes living off the grid in the desert have to improvise.
Dumb farmer solution, as my Dad would say. There’s always more than one way to skin a cat. Respect.👍🏼 Btw, also a “ dumb “ farmer...
That would work!
Years ago I had to design something similar. I had 4 pins to locate my part in X axis, and a stop pin to locate the part in Y axis. The closest 2 pins to the Y axis stop pin also served as stop pins left & right. ( 5 pins on the base of aluminum 1.5" x 1.5" x 8" ) Plus a locating pivot hole on the hand tool ( knob )and a pin on this tool that was used to perform operation 1 & 2. Pivot hole drops onto stop pin Y. The part I was making was a needle rod that you solder tattoo needles to, and the needle rod had to have an eyelet on the end ( centered on the rod ) which was what all these pins were set up to do. Put the tool on left and bend the rod right till it stops at top X pin, then lift and move the tool to the other side of the rod and bend it left till it stops at top X pin, wrapping it around the stop pin. The pin on the bending tool ( knob ) also had to have a larger offset radius on it than the diameter of the pin. The diameter of the bending pin was to do the 1st bend & when you lift it up and set it down on the other side of the rod, it was located at the start of the larger diameter offset radius on the bending pin.
It would really blow my mind to see you make a video of making this needle rod again. I certainly would not attempt to do this again, I am too old. I don't remember the length, eyelet hole size or diameter but I do remember it was 316 stainless. I had no part or blueprints to start with. Customer just said what size eyelet and how long overall part needed to be and handed me some 316 stainless straight rods. Rod diameter might be .8mm / .031" x 6" long, eyelet .200"
The base also had 2 milled out pockets at the bottom so it can me set into a vise to do the bending. All pins are standard .250" dowel pins. Not sure but I seem to remember the larger radius being close to 1"
If you can recreate this, much explanation is needed as to why a larger diameter radius is needed to perform the 2nd bend. I am surprised how fast I did this the 1st time and would not attempt it again.
Thank you sensei.
You might not think this would help a wood guy like me but I just made a dog gate with mortise and tenons on slats at 30 degree angles and this would have been immensely helpful. Great info!
Save it for next time.
Amazing tip, can imagine so many other great uses and jigs
Absolutely.
Magic, so much to learn. Thank you Joe. Regards from Wales
My Father used to say " A day that you don't learn something is a day wasted"
Happy Sunday Joe....best wishes from Central Florida.....Paul
Thanks for the visit Paul. happy Sunday back at ya.
Thanks, Joe. I use what I learn by watching your videos and it helps me in my work.
Another gem Joe... trig once more showing its value. Thank you.
You can't avoid it.
throw top and bottom pins on same vertical line.
replace middle/front one with a cam, couple of extra holes for more range.
and you got repeatable and adjustable angle. and where that top pin clocks to in relation to the face...
Love the content. Thanks for sharing. My favorite videos of yours are the fixtures and shop made tools. One two part question for you. What's your thoughts on rotary broaching and what is your preferred process on making features typically done with a rotary broach. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge
Nice approach Joe. How would you approach this if the chamfered/ angled face of the pin had variation to it? The fixturing approach relies on that angle being 30 degrees. If it had significant variation, that would impact your overall length & drilled hole Center position.
Hi Joe, Regarding the initial setup using a Vblock to hold the pin while cutting the ellipse, I've been cautioned by another highly experienced tool and die maker, to NOT put too much clamping pressure on a Vblock (via the round part, vise jaw, etc.). His guidance stems from having witnessed failure of the block in similar clamping arrangements...
Do you know of a good way to avoid applying 'too much' (clamping) pressure? Developing this 'feel' is always a challenge for the newbie (personal perspective only), without having a frame of reference. :) I've not yet split a Vblock, but developing the 'feel' without taking it to point of failure can be a challenge. Thanks for this informative video.
This is an interesting question. Assuming your V block is hardened and ground try this. Before applying pressure measure (mike) the width of the block at the open end. Apply pressure to the round part until the width begins to increase. Stop pressure at this point. This should give you a good feel for how much pressure to apply to a V block of a given size.
lol Rick on the whiteboard = fire
Great work Joe! Another practical masterpiece. Sometimes a touch probe on a CNC is not the most handy tool. I'm very happy with the camera i'm using on my machine. It has a known offset to the spindle, it registers pretty accurate during motion. (within 0,02mm). It has turned out to be a very convenient tool. For both positioning and measuring a part. (as well as simply aligning a vice)
G'Day Joe, Thank You for this info, but also for some other great advice, that I gleaned form one of your other video's. Best regards Johno (Australia)
Well done.
👍 any way you could show how you figured out the pin locations?
thank you Joe ... another great learning experience....
Another great Joe Pie vid..... I often wonder if there are there any books out there that have lots of these fixture ideas and concepts in them that one could use as a go to reference.
Excellent, Joe. After all these years, I would have taken longer on the setup for a single cut and bore than you took in making the jig. Truly good info. Thanks!
Oh, and I have a T-shirt just like the one you are wearing in the vid. :)
Dean
Mind boggling calculations and setups become easy...common sense...once you know how. Thanks for educating us.
Another top tip. Thanks Joe
Understandable! Also the method should come in handy when other similar situatiins occur. Thank you very much Mr. Pieczynski
Very much so.
2:52
“If you knew…”
“I’ll tell you…”
😂😂😂😂😂
❤❤❤❤❤
Remarkably, I happen to have 5 near identical parts to that on my bench as work in progress, and had just been through the thought process to work out how to get the parts' inclined face to sit exactly vertical (in my case for welding). Reassuringly, i came to a similar conclusion in regard to how to ensure the correct geometry.
:)
I really wish I could work for you. Not that I don't enjoy my current job. But I feel like a kid in school watching your videos.
Yep, that works, no problem. I spent a lot of years in Aerospace tooling (Jig and fixture, retired now) and my way of looking at the problem is from a production point of view with emphasis on idiot proofing tooling. My approach would have been to machine a block to register on the fixed jaw of the vise and it would have a hole bored at the required 30 deg from the spindle axis. The upper Z face of the block would be normal to the axis of the bored hole. Make a register block to index off the face of the fixture block to index your pin to normal. A thumb screw to hold your part once indexed with your backup block also moveable and lockable. The side of the block could be cut to allow the vise to transfer clamping pressure to the part. Now when you load your part, the face of the pin is always rotated normal to the top plane, properly indexed to Z and backed up by the back up block to prevent movement. All your geometry would be built into the fixture to remove as much "thinking" as possible from the operator. Again, my perspective is from a production point of view not a one off. This setup would also ignore any rounding caused to the edge of the part due to deburring.
The only way to idiot proof any production fixture is to take the human out of the equation.. I've done this for 47 years for the aerospace, semi-conductor and medical fields and I've seen mishaps that left me baffled.
@@joepie221 AMEN! The better job we do of making something idiot proof, they only make bigger idiots!!!! LOL
This technique will be very useful for making my CUT type Knurling Tool. Thanks Joe.
That was the use for the demo part.
@@joepie221 Ah figger'd :)
@@joepie221 I would be interested to see more about cut type Knurling and any info so i can make a tool holder Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge and i never noticed before on your whiteboard A little blue flag with the Union jack in the corner nice to see anyway Mate.
It’s surprising how often dowels, pins, and tooling balls are used for accurate locations and used for stops. Nice example joe.
Nice setup, Joe.
You, are the Bees Knees ! Enjoyed watching.
Fasciating demonstration.
Loved the comment on the setting the mill depending on the longest tool.
I figured that one out the hard way :)
Great video. Can you do a follow up for the calculations so we could apply this to other situations.
Thank you.
Bob
Thanks,
Greetings from Germany
Welcome!
Thank you Joe, and my solid geometry high school teacher.
I loved geometry in HS. Still do. Algebra, not so much.
damn this is so clever, i cant wait to get to use it some day.
Thank you Joe Pie! like the three most important things to consider when investing in real estate - location, location and location! I enjoyed this.
Kind regards from John Spargo in Cape Town
Great tip
One 3 Pin Fixture to rule them all.....