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Recording Drums | 5 Easy Hacks to Record Drums Without Sampling
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- Опубліковано 19 січ 2015
- Free PDF Guide Here: creativesoundlab.tv/five-easy-...
Today we are going to talk about what to do during the session with five common issues with recording drums and how to easily overcome it. Your going to learn some of the Basics 101 of how certain sounds are achieved by the drummer in the first place, instead of using a drum sampling plug in during mixing.
This episode will help you in three main areas of recording drums:
Coach drummers on how to produce sounds we want
Make changes to the kit to save time in mixing
Give us a better result with less effort
And these five hacks are about the:
The fullness of the snare drum
The aggressiveness of the kick drum
The sustain of the cymbals
The attack of the toms
The kick-snare-hat relationship
Many don’t realize to fix the problem at the source and it makes the task of recording drums without sampling a very difficult one. They think that recording drums without sampling is too hard, and will take up too much time. So they reach for drum sampling to help patch the problem.
Sampling plugins sound decent, but it takes some practice to learn how to make it sound natural. Using these plugins is a skill that has to be learned and it takes time to get the results that are advertised to us.
If you like to work with drum sampling plugins, then I hold nothing against your methods. A happy client is all the validation you need.
But if you really love the art of recording - the joy of getting sounds and preserving the music. Doesn’t it make the hard work worth it?
Using drum sampling as a short cut for good sounds will still take time and effort and you’ll get results that are good enough for the average ear. However recording drums without sampling will get you amazing drum tracks, that even the experienced ear and fellow audio engineers will be impressed with.
My hope for you is that using these techniques for recording drums without sampling, you can get amazing results using real drums, real drums, and real drummers.
For more go to: creativesoundlab.tv/gallery/re...
Bwaahhhhh Holy crap! The lap technique for constant rimshots is BRILLIANT! How did I never think of that. I always try to play rimshots during a beat, but I'm not perfect by any means.
+David Velez Thanks! Yeah rimshots are where it's at.
2:06 Snare
6:28 Kick
11:59 Ride
17:14 Toms
21:29 Pitches and Tuning
26:32 Before and After
I have used the rimshot technique multiple times in studio sessions and engineers almost always love it when done properly and in context of the song you're recording to. The only down side to this is what I call the 'mushy thy' which is basically a massive bruise on your thy due to constantly hitting it with your snare hand while playing the snare. Usually takes a few days to heal up, but always worth the pain when you hit playback. Keep up the great content Ryan. I love the content on your channel.
+Oluwaboriogun Afolabi Haha, yes. I don't personally use this technique because I've had enough practice. My legs are more sore from set up and tear down sometimes!
Thank you so much for pushing this out to people, I insist on not using samples, and that means taking the time to get a solid sound from the beginning. Keep doing what you're doing!
I find lower snare tuning sits in a mix better than a high tuned one. A higher tuning sounds boxy IMO. Great video btw, I think this is the best video I've ever seen on drum recording.
Greg Patterson Wow thanks for the complement. Glad I could help. Yeah the higher tunings on snare never seem to blend with the rest of the kit.
I think cool way in between is to actually use a deep tuned snare, or better a really hughe metal shell, and use a second snare mic to record just the shell noise. than mixing that in, but eqing it, so that it only comes trough, in the really high frequenzies. Its its really not detecable by a lissener in the mix, becouse its so far away from the snare hit, but it just makesits sound right in the middle without beeing boxy.
Brilliant! Thank you Sir
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I really appreciate it.
Juan Binckoski Thanks for saying hello! I'm glad I could help!
This guy's content is real brilliant. I don't know what else to say.
your videos are awesome. thx my drum trax will def sound better.
killer video, thanks !
Thanks, glad these drum recording tips could help!
Just found your channel and I really love it. Wicked content. I know you're a drummer but somethin like this for guitar would be neat.
Thanks man. Yeah, guitar amps almost have this concept naturally built in...turn up the amp, turn down the mics, or turn down the amp, and turn up the mics. Or, playing a guitar part with the tips of your finger softly. Yeah, I'll think of how I could apply it to a concept.
hi again ryan...most informative series on YT but so much info for a novice like myself! if i'm understanding this right on recording drums regarding muffling is that you really don't need to that and by muffling the drums you actually destroy some nice overtones? I guess my question would be how would one eq some of them out in the mixing phase? if so is that mainly using compression, gating or EQing the freqs? as an aside, if you've heard the drum solo on YESSONGS "perpetual change" track I've always wondered how they got that drum sound to me it sounds quite unique and never could really decide if I actually liked that sound... just curious how they got it....thank you again
+douglas t lang Yeah I try to muffle only when needed instead of by default. Sometimes muffling can be great, and other times like on toms, it can really kill the sound...or affect the sound in several detrimental ways. The sound of the attack being one of them. For overtones, I would go with a coated head, like an ambassador to start, or a emporer weight head also coated if you find you still have too many overtones. During mixing if there is a bad overtone then I will do a cut with a really tight Q just to take out that one frequency. Yeah that Perpetual Change song...those toms would be a good example of what most try to avoid currently in recording. They are a good sound for '73, but because most cheep drum kits (with bad/old drum heads) only sound good overly muffled, that sound has been known to be the cheep drum sound. Just a few thoughts, obviously we know that Yess was not cheep, in fact that is a classic type of sound and well recorded, but perhaps a dated sound a little, and also associated with overmuffled cheep drums. Sorry for the ramble, just my thoughts.
what song is it in the intro theme? it sounds so great
+saddelmusic It's something that I made one afternoon. It's a piano strummed with a minor chord sustained, I reamped this piano into an amp with Tremolo (Gibson Scout 1965) and a real basic drum track.
the drums sound so good :)
I tried recording rim shots, and making the sound cut through was a nightmare. What I decided to do was just not involve the rim, but hit the drum harder. It made a difference. I also had my snare drum tuned high when I tried it. Lower tunings are a lot easier to mix.
Evan Marshall Ryan I think you're on to something here. The timber of the drums will really change when hit softer or louder, and it's almost more of a change (greater possible variation in sound) than reaching for a compressor during mixing. I'm not sure what the circumstances where in your session, but for me rimshots make a drum cut through the mix with ease. Without the rimshot, the drum sounds like a 70s funk drum rather than a harder rock snare sound. If your drum had die cast rims on it then it will choke the drum in it's fundamental and make it sound like it's much higher than it is. Cross sticks (the lay the hand on the drum and make a wood block sound) is always hard to get it to cut through. Would love to hear more on your situation.
creativesoundlab Do you think it is preferable to have die cast hoops or flanged hoops if you are hitting rim shots for recording? It looks like you have die cast hoops on your snare right?
Mike Carbone I have both types on various drums. In short, some say that triple flange is "wide open" and die cast is "muffled". I can't speak to that, but I think both triple flange and die cast can produce good sounding rim shots depending on the drum. I have a die cast on my old Supraphonic SS and I love it, but hated the die cast that came with my Pearl Masters snare that came with the kit. It made the rim shots sound high pitched (kind of choked sounding). As a side point, my Pearl Masters kit has die cast on the toms, and I love it. For toms I've noticed that if you hit a rim shot you can still hear the note/pitch of the tom, whereas triple flange would just be a crack of wood hitting metal. Back to snare drums...I think triple flange are more forgiving and die cast you have to really nail the angle of the drum stick when drumming. Die cast are louder, sharper, and more aggressive, but triple flange sound smoother and fatter.
creativesoundlab Thanks for the response!!! I use rimshots on the snare, but always wondered if I was doing the right thing. This makes me confident that I am. I have a copper snare...I have a flanged hoop on it, and I think that when I tried a die cast it kind of made the drum too dead. I didn't mic it up though. I am also using a coated emperor. I might try the die cast hoop again with an ambassador or reverse dot to see how it sounds. Might liven it up and give it a different character. I'm also considering getting a Black Beauty....It'd be nice to have something a little brighter and resonant, and they are supposed to record really well, but the price tag!!! I've never hit shots on Toms....interesting. I'm just doing rock drumming...but I guess guys like Jojo Mayer do that type of thing. That's good to know. I'm pretty happy with the sound I have on my toms with flanged. I guess it just varies drum to drum. I'm looking forward to the next Mastering the Art of Recording Drums. Really good stuff so far. Thanks for putting it up. I'm learning a lot!
Awesome man! Rim shots are the name of the game for getting good snare tones. After you get the angle down, you gotta focus on where on the head your landing. For the toms, yeah I don't hit rimshots there either, but it got me thinking of why die cast sucks the tone out of a snare, but seams to add tone to toms. Yeah the Black Beauty are in the Supraphonic family from what I remember. I have the 6.5 inch deep supraphonic and love it. I always use a coated ambassador. My tuning is a little higher than the high tom (as if it where the next size up) and the bottom head is always higher in tension. I've learned the triple flanged rims are a cheep option, but sometimes the better sounding rim for a drum. For recording, you don't have to get expensive drums. The acrolites are the student ludwig snare and the keystone badge ones sound amazing. I've always liked this video, and maybe you've seen it too: ua-cam.com/video/8SwSPfCSFz0/v-deo.html
Nice one buddy
+Jason Bond Thanks!
Don't muffle children! Let 'em ring!!!
Great advice Ryan. To be honest, a lot of that terrible ringing from toms in a recording environment is a result of poorly tuned drums. If more drummers would really take the time to work on their tuning technique, there would be a LOT less muffling going on.
Also, regarding the use of samples. I have gotten my best results using samples very judiciously. In other words, not as the primary source of the sound but as a supplement to the sound. For example, I will often record a snare and then mix just a bit of a sample with it. About 80/20 or 70/30. That way I get some killer punch, but still keep the essence of the original acoustic snare sound. I have also gated the sample, so that it only comes in randomly when the drum is struck harder...giving the sound a much more dynamic impact.
On final choruses when I've needed the ride cymbal to really roar (and still have some attack) I've had the drummer flip the drumstick backwards. This is anything but subtle, so use it sparingly. Also, if the drumsticks are too chowdered up, be kind to the drummer and provide a fresh stick (or tipless "log" stick)...nobody likes slivers. ;-)
Stephen Tack That's a great and practical way to make a roaring ride cymbal happen. Thanks for the tip!
Great aprroach, trying to implement it each time I'm recording drums... I'm pretty sure you've heard this question a million times before, but doesn't lap technique leave your leg all black and blue? I'm asking only because back in the day I've heard some drummer complaining about exactly that... So I've got used to set my snare a little higher so I don't touch my leg at all. It may sound silly, I know :) Also, doesn't lap technique make you play snare rolls a little different? Cause you know, you have to keep your wrists pretty close or you'll have your legs in the way... Love your videos!
+Сергей Чернов The technique is only to get a drummer going if he isn't any good at playing rim shots. Get him going and then adjust for a higher snare.
+creativesoundlab Sounds like I've been there before, so yeah, my snare stays where it is :) And thumbs up for those breathing toms!
For the ride cymbal thing you could just turn the sticks around
Yeah, if the drummer is punching in, which is not prefered.
I always use rim shots live, though.
Nice sounding snare. What fundamental pitch is it at ?(playing the drum in the centre).. Bonham tuned his to G#.
diedraak1 I'm not sure, I don't think about it to hard. I will say that it is about a second above the high tom...so if the high tom was a C then the snare would be a D. Many would call it "low" but I call it medium.
diedraak1
4:40
Although I agree hitting a rim shot on every stroke is definitely a good and sure way of gaining volume, I don't think that you should be saying that a drummer should be hitting rim shots in order to get the snare loud enough in a mix!? The most modern sound for snare at the moment in rock music is that dead, thuddy sound of the 70's, certainly not a rim shotted snare! We're talking about that "big fat snare drum" sound which probably involves a fair bit of dampening, loosening of the batter skin and other things which actually make the snare drum quieter!!! One trick is to record with plenty of head room to bring the more quiet things up in the mix later!
The bass drum thing is very true and very useful info though!
I always do terry bozzio rim shot and it makes me happy
That is not for recording drums, to Playing drum!
+drumstickxxx Yes, so you can coach an inexperienced drummer on how to hit. This video is for engineers. It's not about mixing, or compression for a snare sound, but it's getting the rim shot in the first place to get that sound.
Nah I'm sorry man, you've got some good ideas but there's a lot of strange ones too. Rim shots: why would you tell your drummer to do it every time, that's not the point of it, rim shots are to vary the texture of the sound and they are the choice of the musician, not the engineer. Bass drum - you are destroying your batter head. The impact patch is supposed to go where the beater actually hits, not at the edge, not just off to the side; it goes where the beater hits, that is the point of it being there. If you don't like the sound you get - don't use one and just keep a few hundred spare bass drum heads lying around instead. You are correct in saying that you can get more projection from the ride cymbal by gripping the stick more, but please stop telling your drummers to play stiff handed, it's very bad technique and is not good for your arms either. Also, trying to change how your drummer is playing is not easy and not advisable either, we get angry when people try to do that.
+Tom Goulden Some of these techniques are better suited for drummers that have technique already, and if you want to coach them through how to get consistent sounds you can use these ideas. This video wasn't supposed to be for everybody, but for engineers and producers that don't play drums, but need help getting results that sound more professional about of mid level drummers.
+Tom Goulden lol it's a beater on a head. They're meant to be beaten on. For recording purposes, go ahead and do things you wouldn't normally do. Such as constant rim shots and beater heads on non-impact patch bass drums. Musicians who put their ego aside and listen to a good engineer make better sounding records. With our without a patch, you should be changing your head out after a while anyway. If you're in for a session, go ahead and go the extra mile if you have to beat on your drums a bit more than you have to...
Thanks Pat Lynch You get it.
+Tom Goulden Recently i wanted a constant crotchet rimshot....so it needed it every-time. Why? because it sounding good and had lots of impact having a big cracking sound. I've also used a random sheet of metal, and a drinking glass as percussion....so what?.. There's not really a 'correct' use for a rimshot....but if you use one surely you don't want to miss in any circumstance anyway.
Rimshots should not be a variation in texture, never! Is the exact opposite thing, especially for rock and heavier music. Even funk has rimshots on all the backbeats and accents, you can play rimshots on heavier or lighter dinamic. Most people think a rimshot is just good for heavy music... Wrong!!! Ghost notes will be the variations. A center hit (not rimshot), simply doesn’t work, sound lifeless and boring. This is a fact.