If you don’t think that it’s a woman’s job to rescue a man. Then it is no man’s job to protect a woman. My girlfriend and I rescued each other. From our loneliness. She saved me from my depression. I didn’t even know how depressed I had become until my girlfriend came into my life. Like the sun ☀️ shining it’s healing and nurturing rays on a flower 🌸
Kinda but i do think it's important to destuingish that being a female prostitute, on the streets, with a pimp during the early 90's ( aids crisis) was a dangerous job and some of the choices made by Vivian are known to be good choices. Maybe it shouldve been less judgemental but it isn't wrong to be honest
@Estelle Lair there’s a few. There are people who do choose the job- but I’ve never known them to work on the streets. Usually, they’re either medium to high end escorts, or working in a legal brothel, or legally working as a sole operator. When the job is like that, the flexibility of it can be pretty good. You can earn more in one good night that you can in a full work week. Which gives you more time for other things- studying, looking after your kids, or even having another job that doesn’t pay as well. In countries where full service sex work is legal, you don’t see anywhere near the amount of desperation that you do in places like The States. It’s just a job. A very flexible and sometimes fun job, even. One that people can do well and even take a certain amount of pride in- especially given how much amateur therapy is involved. But it is important to distinguish this kind of sex work from the far more dangerous street work. Which is also one of the major reasons that sex work needs to be decriminalised. Because when it’s not illegal, it’s far, far safer.
The life of a sen worker should not be too glamorized or it could have looked aspirational for many young women with little wealth. It’s good that it was showed Vivian isn’t the only type of sex worker plenty of them are drug addicts or have mental health issues or face abuse or just seem to not be able to move form this world since it happens. The more glamorous and fairytale like experience of Vivian isn’t the norm. Even if there are people who kind of have that such as people who are escorts and people who do this short time while trying to get money for something else.
I wouldn't say it's a novelty as much as it is dehumanizing. Who cares how she became a hooker or how she feels about it? As long as she's there to validate a man whose virtue is in no way sullied by being her john.
There is 0 proof that flossing multiple times per day actually helps with dental health. That's why the US Department of Health and Human Services had to stop recommending it. Brushing thoroughly has long been proven to be the best thing you can do for your dental health.
THAT PART!! It feels like just because it’s a side character, their pain isn’t important. It also goes with leaving someone at the altar. As long as there is some heartfelt speech about love and getting it right this time, to hell with the fiancé. I hate it!
I also felt uncomfortable about the way prostitution was glamorized in this movie. They also handle sexual assault in an insensitive way, and while Edward deservedly punches out Stuckey, they later argue not because he tried to rape Vivian, but over the business, and don't even call the police on him?! 🤦🏻♀️
well, to be fair, calling the police would have made no difference (or would have made things worse for vivian). since when does the police care about prostituted women?
She and her friend imply that they're superior for not having a pimp, because that's a man who controls your life and finances, but then willingly signs up for a relationship with a guy who controls her life and finances. Like the end asks, whose fairy tale is this?
It gets worse. Avoiding the pimps is a sign that her character is far more mentally sound and together than the others. Not superior mind you, just more functional In other words, she has privileges and abilities that makes her life easier. In the end, she really is exactly like Edward.
I don't see it as superior, more a conscious decision understanding the consequences of having a pimp (you rarely get out the life with a pimp. They're violent, manipulative but serve as "protection" from being beaten murdered by John's. ..they'll beat and murder, though...) I completely understand not wanting to be up all night walking the beat, screw, suck, clean up repeat for someone else to take my money and give an allowance. Nope! Not superior, actually brave. Edward was a business arrangement she could walk away from (but caught feelings and made a choice to be with him after leaving). You can't leave a pimp. Only traded to another for money.
@ Just Dude Yo, The only difference is when he decides to leave her she'll life going back to her old way of life where as if she had a real pimp he might sell her to another pimp, kill her, or maim her.
Vivian comes from a broken, toxic home but is smart, loving, intelligent, confident, caring, witty, emotional and logical but yet becomes a hooker!! Edward comes from a toxic broken home has terrible attributes and is highly insecure, completely revenge driven, self involved and incapable of committing in a relationship.. But yet gets to be incredibly successful! Ok 🙃 In reality their relationship would never have worked as he is way to controlling and would have always have reminded Vivian of her past to make her feel less than when he felt she was distancing herself from him.. If Edward's not in control. Watch out..
So... Stevie and Joseline from Love and Hiphop would be a more realistic version of them, right? He always threatened to "send her back to the strip club" whenever they fought and they were as toxic as can be.
No wonder she ends up in this position if she believes in fairy tales at her age. Plus a soulless financial who lives on ripping off others is far from Prince charming and needs himself saving from his inner misery. All of this looks like a nightmare not a fairytale. Reminds you of young Trump and Melania's story, we all know what a Prince charming this Epsteins lifelong friend is and how happy Melania is with him. You can see her soul extinguished in her eyes, and all of this for what? Who in a sound mind would consider jumping into this filthy tank full of deeply disfunctional sharks as a fairy tail? I say that's a burden more than an opportunity and through him she lets into her world new shades of human misery that might be much heavier and deeper than her financial or professional issues. I am always buffled by people who see Cinderella type of stories as fairytales and not nightmares. I see how stupid illiterate girls who migrate from Siberia to Moscow in hopes of marrying an Oligarch could believe in such non sense, but how can this still be thought in modern Western developed societies? Who are the people who consider marrying an Eric Trump or a Saif Gaddafi as a dream and not a nightmare? This whole fantasy of getting with any random guy as long as he is a rich prince is no different from prostitution with one permanent client. No wonder this movie gave her this job. It can very well be denouncing such fairy tales that preach a dream where de facto girls are prostitutes and boys - thieves. She was not as much a prostitute when she earned money using her sex like others use their hands, as when she said "I want a fairy tale" when reffering to dumb Cinderella type tales, where she gets with a random guy in exchange for his status and wealth. That's where she truly embraced her role. Same goes for the guy who basically employs her. You can read this movie as : marriage of interest = prostitution with one client and fairy tales are a romanticised propaganda of this. Always hated Cinderella type fairytales that are just stupid and offensive when you look beyond the surface.
I agree to this comment but I also think Julia's character should be viewed with more compassion and open mindedness and less judgement on her own view and perspective of the world according to her terms and the type of life she has lived and experienced. Even before getting with the wealthy character, Edward and getting to know him better, I think the job of prostitution in itself for some people is fantasy and an escape profession for them as well aside from desperate need for quick money. Not all prostitutes come from broken families as many people may assume. Some people may even go into prostitution because they simply lack motivation to work regular jobs and work hard for their money.
I am being humble when I am telling you that I am the most powerful strongest coolest smartest most famous greatest funniest Y*uTub3r of all time! That's the reason I have multiple girlfriends and I show them off on my ch*nnel all the time! Bye bye kon
YES,as a teen girl who is the target audience for most of these teen shows and movies with extremely toxic characters and relationships I am over it. One of the biggest teen movies this year was After we collided, and the relationship between the main two characters was difficult to watch due to how toxic they were. And let's not forget that in these teen shows/movies they are ALWAYS having sex which is something that puts pressure on teens to lose their v card. Directors and writers of these stories need to realize that teens are impressionable and seeing toxic relationships shown as "romantic" on TV and movies can lead to people not leaving abusive relationships.
@@zendayasfruityfrenchfry1784 I haven't read the series since I heard it's way more toxic and graphic, but I have seen both the movies(and I hated them). I don't understand how movies like After and the Kissing Booth are already getting 3rd movies. Both show toxic characters and relationships.
Yep, if the prostitute wasn't conventionally pretty, or the male lead was simply an ordinary blue collar worker, then it's likely that they wouldn't be romanticising the story as much.
You rock for the "Bride of Frankenstein" shout out. It's such an under-discussed classic. And Dr. Pretorius is one of the greatest Universal antagonists.
But everyone wanted him most popular bachelor no one could have. He chose to ctakena chance and be with her. They did both improve each other on some level. i remember him asking his ex a question about what was wrong with their relationship and then improving from that too? I remember her asking these are your friends? No wonder you camr looking for me. In the end he was becoming less stuck up rich man and He quit making money for money and being a horrible cooperate ass screwing people, and actually created something instead. Boats with a family's business i think it was
The real joke of the movie is he had a job everyone in the 80s respected and she had a job everyone bashed and the film said - lol, it’s the same job, tho.
If the popularity and population of modern rehab centers have shown something, it is that the difference between her and many rich guys like him is that she has a lot of sex to physically and financially survive while he already scammed his clients out of money and has a lot of sex and drugs just by stupidity or to fill the inner void in his empty soul. Just two different types of decadence that lead to the same result and way of life.
I know it's a strange ask, but I kinda want a video about women in glasses and the tropes around them. Like, "They just need a make over" They are cold and calculating. Glasses make you "smart". etc and a comparison to men and discussion of other genders within that framework. How could one accessory give rise to so many weird stereotypes?
@@honeydewmoon6448 They loosely touched upon it, but didn't really discuss it. So since the comments on that video had people who wanted a discussion on it, I thought it would be really good to touch upon the subject itself. For example, why is a woman with glasses considered "ugly" that she needs a "makeover"? And why are women with glasses also often seen as "cold" or "smart" or "cold and calculating?" maybe with the origins of the stereotype, etc and so on... like superheroes with glasses are said to be homey, but why is a woman with glasses not really viewed as sexy? But a man often can be?
well because historically in ~middle ages~ glasses meant you can read, you need to read a lot and you DO read a lot, hence you are smart and educated unlike 99% of people. this trope has very deep roots)
Apparently, in the original script, Vivian would have had a cocaine addiction, and when Edward catches her flossing her teeth, she actually WAS supposed to have been doing cocaine. Also, Vivian's roommate Kit was also to have a drug problem, and would eventually succumb from an overdose.
That would still not be completely realistic since a significant chunk of sex workers aren't aren't abused o addicts. Of course there are those who are but sex work is quite varied and not as negative as the media portrays it.
So true. My friend, who is a sex worker; had checked herself into mental health facility several times in the past year. One time she called me during covid lockdown when she had a psychotic breakdown after a traumatic experience (im guessing as she doesnt talk about it). I happy cried (after call ended) when she called me from hospital to confirm she was in there being looked after. Not a glamouris industry.
Regarding #3, it is quite funny, while "Titanic" having the same different-class relationship, it is gender-swapped, and once AGAIN it is the man "improving" the woman, by teaching her how to open up and enjoy herself, while the rich world of the woman and its rules are framed as ridiculous and bad and surely nothing desirable.
I don't necessarily know that I'd consider that quite the same- the film seems much more toned down in how much Rose needed to be "improved" versus acquiring personal agency for herself, learning to act on her own desires rather than society's. Even though that is a case of "a man teaching a woman a lesson", I never got the impression that we were meant to see Jack as being superior to Rose, just someone so drastically different that it causes her to re-evaluate her own life and needs
Arranged marriage is a kind of prostitution. Rose's mom was pimping her out to someone Rose did not love to remain in the same social class and level of power Mom had grown accustomed to.
Well there is an expectation that a relationship should bring something new to your life, enrich it in some way. That is often what leaves a lasting impression and sparks attraction. We definitely see this standard for both sides. They have to be able to provide something that their partner wouldn't get in their life as a single. There is also the expectation that the partners will change over time within the relationship, ideally for the better. That they grow together. This trope is also seen in reverse. Women are often the Manic Pixie Dream Girl that reignites the Man's humanity & passion. Men are often the handsome Rich Man who shows there's still good in the world who can provide security and resources. It's in this framing that we see what men and women are respectively looking from one another.
I think in Titanic Jack is Rose's manic pixie dream boy. Because he's pretty much the definition of that trope only male. A character that, "exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures."
That's not a fair comparison at all. "You are less than, but with me you will be good enough" is not the same as "You are unhappy, but with me you will be happy." Not to say that the latter is entirely problem-free, but it's not the same as the former.
I think you probably know a ton of sex workers but they would never tell you. Can sex work be dangerous? Yeah but is it much more dangerous than dating for a woman probably not.
The movie doesn't glamorise sex work, and The Take addresses that. If you saw the first five minutes of the video, maybe you wouldn't have needed to comment on that. But many of these dangers would go away if it was just legalised. But the endless parade of second wave SWERF orgs and conservative politicians who cheat on their wives double down on the bans that make the practice more unethical and risky than it needs to be, while progressives hail the deeply flawed and dangerous Nordic model as a bastion of female empowerment.
You forgot the most important breakdown of Edward was when Vivian told him "Baby, I'm going to treat you so good, you're never going to let me go!", to which Edward coldly responds "I will let you go". Pretty much sums up that she is just arm candy for a week. Oh, and when Elizabeth complimented Vivian at the polo match by telling Edward "Wherever did you find her?" and Edward sneers "1-800-babe" and walks off, leaving the woman stunned in disbelief.
Seriously? He said that in the beginning of the fucking movie.. She was just a prostitute to him and he was just a customer to her at that point. Nothing toxic about that. And about the polo match: Why is what he said an issue for you? He was probably telling the truth and wasn't ashamed.
@@brucepacetti2044 Yes but maybe only at that point in the relationship he saw her as property. Later on he comes to respect her more as a woman with many Good qualities , it appears anyway.
Women have actually credited Pretty Woman as being an inspiration for getting them involved in the sex industry because it glamorized the profession and made it look incredibly lucrative.... so there’s another toxic takeaway
Honestly if they did that’s on them just like you getting a lotto ticket doesn’t mean you win the lottery becoming a sex worker doesn’t mean you’ll meet a man that will take care of everything for you ... there where plenty of other points in the movie that pointed out how un safe and scary it is and the dangers of being a sex worker
_"Overall, Pretty Woman reaffirms the idea that money is everything, that without it you're powerless and insignificant."_ I mean...they're not wrong. There's a reason the phrase "money talks" exists. It's true that individuals have worth and value regardless of their finances, but in the larger world structure how much currency you have (be it money, influence, etc) still plays one of the main roles in your social value. Even as a UA-cam channel...having that Verified checkmark gives you more currency than a channel without one, even if you made videos on the same topics. It's the nature of the world right now, unfortunately. You don't have to like the message, but we can't pretend like the movie is wrong for saying it.
I would kind of agree. A lot of sex and drugs is a filthy thing when you do it for survival. However if you are rich first and do a lot of sex and drugs after, than it's cool, it's rock and roll baby, you're a rock star. 😂 The same way of life 2 interpretations based on how rich is the one who practices it.
@@obato76 I agree, but I also don't think the movie promotes _love_ of money. I think it promotes _necessity_ of money. Edward's money didn't actually win him Vivian, in fact the opposite. Her line "no wonder you came looking for me"...it points out that Edward isn't happy in his world of money, and initially Vivian rejects his monied world because of people like Stucky. He didn't win Vivian over with the limo, but rather that he chased after her for the (admittedly weakly written) "grand romantic gesture" trope. And money didn't make all of Vivian's problems go away either. Sure, she had fun on her shopping spree, as anyone might after bare bones for an extended period, but she doesn't rest on her laurels. She takes the money and decides to go back to school, and she gives some of it to her friend and encourages _her_ to chase a dream. It's not that money solved her problems, but money made them easier to overcome. So again, I wouldn't say the movie promotes the love of but rather the _necessity_ of money.
I love your perspective, is very refreshing to see your opinion isn't condescending on female sex work, actually all the opposite, sometimes i feel the writters of the fake ar3 far too radical
I feel like Bridget Jones's Diary is toxic too.When I was in my early 20s I loved that movie. Now that I'm older and have more perspective, I see how ridiculous it is. She was called old at 32 and fat at an average weight. It also makes it seem women are obsessed with marriage
She also lives in a spacious apartment near Borough Market all by herself and she's contended by two handsome wealthy men. How the hell are they depicting her as a fat (?!?) looser?
That's a tricky one - you can't document/reflect current social attitudes without perpetuating them. Bridget Jones was explicitly created as a "Cosmo woman" - a stereotypical 30-something woman in mid-90s London trying (and inevitably failing) to live up to the happily married, anorexically skinny, sexually adventurous, successful career woman ideal presented in Cosmopolitan and other womens magazines. Bridget Jones was a look at "what is" rather than a model of "what ought to be" and her happy ending in the movie comes not from her attempts to fill the Cosmo mould, but from her home life, her failures, and the boy next door - she doesn't end up skinny and married.
Well there are a lot of women obsessed with marriage and relationships in general. Men can talk about various topics but I hear women talk about relationships 90% of the time.
You have to judge by the context of the time. Unfortuantely, until more recently than any of us would like to admit, women in particular _were_ still considered old as they entered their 30s, _especially_ if they were single. It's the old "clock is ticking" judgement. Single at 30? You pitifiul spinster, you're running out of time to have babies and a family! You're wasting your life! And yeah, anything above a size 8 would have been considered too round. Anorexia was at a high in the 00s, bare midriffs were in style, the perfect hourglass was the ideal. It sucks, but that's the fact of the standards in the time Bridget Jones's Diary was made. It's not the movie hasn't aged well, it's that that time period didn't age well. Bridget ended her Diary movie still curvy, still unmarried, still awkward....but happy. _That,_ by contrast, aged _very_ well.
I would so like to see Vivian and Edward's relationship after 30 years:did they have any shildren? What did their fights look like? Any individual/couples' therapies? Did Edward start a charity or a project that helped a community?Did Vivian discover any talents of her own and start her own career? Was she allowed to talk to other men?
All good questions. We could ask these about every Prince Charming/Cinderella story, as a veil is always drawn over everything that happens after the proposal.（A notable exception being the marriage of Shrek and Fiona which blew apart the fairytale framing）
I would put money on them not having one. I think he would use her as training wheels to learn how to have a relationship then go marry someone appropriate and find other girls like Vivienne, but just for business trips.
I love how The Take is making Toxic Takeaways for Romantic Comedies it shows you should never believe everything a movie teaches or the message they send
Yeah...I don't get this critism at all in this analysis video. This trend lately that sex work really isn't that bad and is really just like any other job is low key concerning to me. When you consider the dangerous aspects of it as well, the fact that some sex worker's don't deal with this and conduct their busines in a safe environment, doesn't negate those dangerous aspects that exist working as a prostitute.
@@Passions5555 well for one there are many kinds of sex work not just being an escort or selling sex in general, strippers are considered sex workers as well as people who have only fans (sell nudes), sell fetish photos like pics of their feet and stuff and their used clothing, and porn stars. A large part of the toxic/violent side of sex work comes people outside such as police, clients, and if they have one, pimps. People's change in their treatment of sex work is because they're normalising it which allows workers to be more open and able to ask for help, a large part of the abuse they face is die to the fact they have to keep their jobs a secret/they are looked down upon thus law enforcement rarely ever tried/tries to bring them justice and they are unable to tell anyone about it to get help, it's literally just about treating sex workers with the basic decent respect that they deserve as both people and workers
@@Passions5555 sex work would be less dangerous if it was decriminalized, destigmatized, and common proper harm reduction was commonplace and regularly practiced. :) (view my smiley face as sheer rage)
This is why you guys NEED to do a video on the Hulu show Harlots, and how amazing, underrated, underexposed, inclusive & not preachy it is about selling sex.
@@thegoldenpolarbear5936 another person wouldn't play into Christian's act. Only a clueless virgin who accepts everything has to be as he says enables him to be that guy.
And while doing it, call it „western european” and not just the european. Most americans when thinking about Europe they think about the west (England, France, Italy etc) and those are the stereotypes you mostly see in movies, while Eastern Europe is a totally different world
@@muflon8342 ah yes, the beautiful russian/ukrainian spy in Bond type moves uugh. And since I’m polish, I see only the „dumb, poor imigrant” trope when it comes to polish people in movies
I would argue that in America money IS everything- so in that sense it’s realistic. If this film was made in another country, it could have a different message.
There's a difference between "Money is everything in this world, and that's too bad" and "Money is everything in this world. Ain't that great?" - obato76 1 day ago
You guys should do a take on the male and female best friends always ending up together trope seen in RomComs and how it has affected our perspectives/expectations of having male and female best friends.
I watched that movie recently (I was 11 when it came out) and I didn't like it all. Yes, there were some mildly entertaining parts but Bridget came off so damn whiny and needy. And the mere fact that she was supposed to be a plus sized heroine is laughable. I just couldn't relate to an uppity, entitled women pining for the love of two misogynistic men.
@@florjean965 I was around 13 when it came out and I remember the promotion for this movie was how Renee Zellweger gained like 30lbs to play the role. Bridget wasn't even chubby, her BMI was in the "normal" range. It was also promoted as a girl-power feminist movie, which is laughable.
I think I watched Pretty Woman for the first time back in college, and I remember feeling viscerally uncomfortable the whole time. Like, “This is the ‘romantic comedy’ of our age that everyone loves and adores?” I just felt awkward...
@@19Rena96 A sex worker who never does anything she could find degrading, prostitution seems very nice ! She is bought by a very rich guy who can give her anything, what a hero ! If i had a daughter i would punch everyone involved in this film.
Vivian deserved better than Edward, in my opinion. The film sends a problematic message that all sex workers simply want to be saved. True, Edward tells Vivian that she could be so much "more", as if she's synonymous with "less".
At least 99% of ''sex-workers'' would choose something else if they were able to do so. If they wouldn't then there are other forces at play that makes it difficult for them to hold onto a job or leave prostitution, such as addiction, pimping, human-trafficking, etc.. And I am not talking about middle-class chicks who use camming or only-fans as a side gig, I am talking about women who be selling BJs next to the road for little to nothing while putting their own lives and health at risk. Or women working in the west to send money to their families back home.
@@angellover02171 it would have been very interested if he just gave her the money and she used it to start her own bussiness or something like that. Though it does imply she was going back to study anyway, doesn't it? And the friend does decide to try becoming a hairdresser.
@@OpheliaNL Can we talk about classism within the sex industry too? Why are street workers looked down on when, for example, top-money escorts or the "middle-class chicks" doing cam work aren't quite painted with the same brush? You know that society at large starts to dehumanise a person as soon as they find out they're a sex worker, so why make these distinctions?
I wasn't ever on board with this movie. I hated this movie even when I was a teenager. This may be the reason that I hate most romantic movies. "Yeah, you can have all the "stuff" in the world as long as you have no boundaries towards me, and let me control everything, you do.", which Vivian goes along with...
She’s just the beautiful young lady, that he can show off at events and that he also dreams about romantically. But he wouldn’t be willing to openly speak about her being a sex worker. I don’t think he would ever risk his reputation or his job for her. This relationship only works as long as she acts completely conventional and adapts to his world. This story might have a happy ending for a while, but can anybody imagine them having the same circle of friends, with deep, honest friendships, them having kids, her gaining 30 pounds, them still loving each other? I can’t. He created his dream girl and as soon as she would become to difficult for him, he would ditch her.
I first watched this film when I was 16 as I’d grown up hearing people talking about it and quoting it like it was the best romance movie out there. However when I watched it I honestly couldn’t see what all the fuss was about. It felt like it was written by some rich guy who got rejected by a sex worker and wrote this fantasy to vindicate himself. Nice to finally hear and understand all the reasons why this film is toxic. I thought I was the only one.
He treats her like a naive rube, because she IS a naive rube. This is a fish out of water story. Of course that's the dynamic. There is nothing inherently toxic about mentor/mentee roles.
Yes, Marge and Norm are such an underrated couple, and I love how they subvert the usual gender roles, with her being a badass cop, and him being a mild mannered painter. They constantly support each other, and you just know that they'll be excellent parents to their unborn child.👶♥️
You should do a video on the Short Man trope. Jason Alexander is a good example in this very movie. Short men are typically portrayed as unattractive, creepy, undesirable, and unlike able in films. Others are portrayed as having a short fuse with Napoleonic syndrome. Hyper aggressive and full of rage. Joe Pesci, Al Pacino, David Proval are good examples.
Except i didn't look at his Height. I think it's more about his Slimy personality, and it would be stereotypical to say that he was cast in the role because he was short. I think it's more how he's so good at delivering his Lines that tell you he is a real Jerk.
Imagine this: A sequel for pretty woman depicting the disintegration of their relationship and vivian realizing she could do better. Maybe pursuing a career or an education ?
So go ahead and write something like that; as long as you're careful not to violate federal copyright law. Why shouldn't you be the one to do it? Big ideas start with small seeds....
My aunt and my ex-girlfriend from high-school both fell into prostitution out of addiction and were both murdered. Downplaying the danger of this lifestyle or making it socially acceptable is doing a disservice to society.
I personally think that sex work should be legalized. It will exist no matter what and making it illegal only makes the job more dangerous for these women. In a perfect world, we could snap our fingers and eliminate prostitution but people who pay for sex and people who will sell their body for money do not come out of nowhere. They exist due to wealth inequality and misogynistic objectification. < these are very big issues that will take a lot of lifetimes to solve so for now, we must do what we can to protect the people who felt they had no choice but to sell their bodies for money, so that they could LIVE. Why are these people punished so harshly and the MEN who pay for their services and often organize the system let off more easily. It’s not about making prostitution socially acceptable, it’s about making a better life accessible to those who felt they had no other options, no one to turn to.
@@vortexofweird Your comment doesn't address the whole "men that think you're an object sometimes break you like one" thing that got these women killed at all. What about it being legalized would have saved these addicted women from being murdered by johns?
@@mechantechatonne I understand that it’s not as if there would be guaranteed protection in all circumstances (but you could say that about a lot of legal jobs...). I think it isn’t hard to see that legalizing prostitution would also open the door to infrastructure and working conditions being improved. It would be easier for a woman working as a prostitute to report abusive violent behavior and it would give them easier access to healthcare/STI prevention. Perhaps a hypothetical addict could then afford access to therapy/rehab.
Obviously the movie is extremely problematic and toxic but that shopping scene is absolute gold. Nordstrom used to use that in their training videos and probably still does.
She's a robot for a man that wants a woman that does as she is told and she's pretty stupid in something's but in others she's smart (things that he likes). She's helpless but she has this cool bad girl personality to her . (ROBOT)
@John Abel We could say the same whenever a person states opinions or theory that differ from ours =just because we disagree someone's statement doesn't mean it serves an agenda. Anyway, it's not written in stone, so...
Spoiler alert: Like all movies - this should NOT be fantasized as a possible reality for men and women. It is just a movie, and while it serves as a brief escapism, it is NOT to be taken as a life lesson. We should learn to enjoy movies and move on.
While I agree that it's just a chick flick movie, it's still a little disturbing that it presents a romanticised attitude towards prostitution, and make it seem as though it's totally easy to get out of it, when the opposite is more likely. 🙄
To say that we should just move on completely misunderstands the role of stories throughout human culture, and is just kind of lazy. Analysis like this is completely necessary for aspiring writers and anyone who loves learning in general - not to mention more enjoyable than some of the actual stories; Pretty Woman was boring AF. Are you just sad that someone said something in a movie you liked was subjectively bad?
One note on why Vivian is "better" than the other sex workers: this is frequent in movies (especially from that period) about people who belong to a marginalized group. Call it the "Robin Hood" effect: road bandits are bad, but not Robin Hood who steals from the rich to give to the poor because he has empathy. I imagine that a character like Vivian is good when we're in a climate in which people still think that the marginalized group in question has no such good people ("all road bandits are bad, there are no Robin Hoods" i.e. "all prostitutes are crack-addicted lowlifes, there are none with hearts of gold") so Vivian can be an eye-opening and perhaps empathy-inducing first look at the possibility that maybe things aren't really like that. The fact that she is the only one is, I think, supposed to keep the movie "grounded" "in reality" (because at the time nobody would believe it if sex workers were portrayed as normal people making choices). With time, the perspective widens.
Even when I was young, watching this movie for the first time, it troubled me in ways I couldn't understand until I got older. So thank you for voicing all the problems I've always had with it. I've always loved fairy tales, not for romance or happy endings, but because my whole life they have always been clear cautionary tales. Not all fairy tales have romance or happy endings after all. Honestly the only thing I ever really found commendable about this movie was the doing away with the idea that only a chaste woman can have true value to a man.
Honestly i would have prefered if the ending was different. Yes probably the original One was to dark but It would have been more credible and inspiring if they Just parted on good term at the end of the weekend. Vivien could have used the Money to search for an humble "normal" job and Richard could still have decided to change his business Plan. Also I really dont get why She asked such a Low fee for the weekend, given her hourly fee She basicly agreed to give him her time for free.
Because it was a lot of money to her and it was with one safe, good looking client rather than with multiple unknown ones and lots of standing around waiting to be picked up. She basically sold him her time and services at a discounted rate for a bulk purchase. That's standard business practice.
How it should happen: Edward hooks Vivian and takes her to the hotel room. After 20 minutes police comes and takes him into custody. He gets a fine and spoils his reputation. The film ends.
George Bernard Shaw’s original 1913 play “Pygmalion” was a SUBVERSION and SATIRE of stories like “Pretty Woman” because it realistically portrayed the emotional and psychological toll this kind of “romantic makeover” would take on a woman in real life as her entire identity was uprooted and systematically trampled upon, and then concluded with an ironic twist; Henry Higgins’ coaching worked *too well*, Eliza transcends him, realizes she’s now too good for him, and leaves (hence the title “Pygmalion.”) When the play was adapted into a British film in 1938, the ending was changed to a more romantic happy finale where Eliza comes back to Professor Higgins, throwing out all the original subtext and playing the sappy melodramatic tropes straight. The 1956 stage musical (and later film) “My Fair Lady” was actually based more on the 1938 film rather than the 1913 play (even says so in the writer credits), utilizing additional scenes, lines of dialogue, and the new “happy” ending written exclusively for the film adaptation of “Pygmalion.”
I love the the deeper insights & takeaways from this movie. Realistically, I don't think this relationship would have survived, it would have been a very codependent transactional relationship. I wish they gave Vivian more of a character arc, who had goals to be an accomplished woman, rather than just being a girl who wants a fairy-tale romance. There's nothing wrong with that, but to be a woman independent from what a man can give her. She could have been a self-made woman who starts her own business. She could create a life of her own rather than just mooching off of Edward. I know as long as she is with him, her lifestyle & status has improved, but did she earn it? She could be more than just a pretty face, and I don't know if Edward would have seen her as more than just his possession.
Yes agreed.I loved this film as a teenager but it definitely did not age well >a woman's empowerment through a man's money and even reeducation seems so hollow.Vivian as a charactewr was written to be charming and warm, and is able to tie a tie, has some knowledge about cars.That's it? Her creativity, ideas and ambitions were put aside if the character had any. If Gere's character was an average-looking, average-oncome Joe, his behaviour would have come off as sleazy and manipulative (hot/rich person rule).
But until the very end when Edward shows up at the fire escape, Vivian is actually planning on getting her life together, going on to something better. She makes a choice for love with Edward, and she's entitled to her own choice.
@@marpop4056 Good Point! The ending does show she can survive without him as she moves away from her old life to a new life. And that she has a choice to be with him or not.
Unfortunately a prostitute could only dream of a rich man pulling them from that lifestyle. Most usually have it hard right? A lot are drugged up or alcoholics. They have mental issues or trauma. It isn't easy for a prostitute to just become some sort of career women. There is a reason they chose prostitution in the first place. She was privileged enough based off of looks when he chose her, and actually getting money at all. She definitely could have used that opportunity to her advantage, so I agree.
I really enjoy The Take, but please stop putting the word "toxic" in every second preview! It start to look like all you explore in your essays is some kind of toxicity, and it just doesn't do them any justice. They are so much more than that!
This channel is generally about mining for negativity in conventional social and racial tropes and reshaping them, not actual film analysis This isn't ScreenPrism anymore
@@Cunnysmythe "Here's why this 90's movie doesnt live up to our hyper-sensitive 2020 social standards!" That's essentially what this channel is. Finding the negative in anything people enjoy because it doesn't pass the wokeness test.
@@Ray03595 Never once in this essay was it said or even implied that liking the film was bad. I love this movie, I grew up with it! But examining the mistakes made in the past and reflecting on our ideas from that era are how we learn and grow. This is a middle ground! There's nothing wrong with loving these films, just like there's nothing wrong with criticizing them. Most of my all time favorite movies come from this era, and while I can admit to the fact that some of the messages they told were either wrong or just a little misguided, I know they were a product of their time and love them anyways. You're making a strawman argument.
@@allisonfields3108 What about these films are misguided though? They have intended messages. You see them as flaws because you have a 2020 mindset, but that doesn't mean your mindset is automatically correct.
Thank you for pointing this out. I was appalled by the fact that my parents introduced this movie to me as a sweet romantic movie when I was a teenager. It is NOT
CONSENT. Vivianne can dictate her sexuality and how its used ONLY BY HER. She offered herself to WHATS HIS FACE and not to his creepy business partner. HER sexuality is only able to be offered BY HER. Ugh this was the worst. She wants to be kept and told what to do on HER terms. SHE is selling a product and can pull it from the shelf whenever she wants to. Why is this so hard to understand?
This one came out when I was in my early 20s. It was a huge box office hit and everyone of my friends loved it. I was appalled by how unrealistic it was a good looking investment banker would fall for a working girl. I didn’t see it and still won’t see it today. I wasn’t a feminist or worldly at that age but I just instinctively knew that this movie was wrong. Thanks to The Take for summing up the toxic aspects of this film. I feel bad for women who bought into this story and hoping for a prince to show up and make them over into a princess.
I suppose the defining moment of our times is that we seem to believe we've already figured out what "good" relationships are, and so we pass judgment on works of art based on this knowledge: we decide which ones are toxic (i.e., have bad messages, shouldn't be liked, etc.) and which ones aren't. I'm not really OK with that; it smacks of Stalin's "the artist is the engineer of the human soul" and suggests that works of art should have a mission, that art is ultimately prescriptive (which is, I think, the deeper meaning behind the use of the word "toxic": philosophical moralism). It is always possible to point out that works of the past did not have today's sensitivities in mind ("mistreatment of sex workers", "celebration of materialism", "redemption promised to a greedy man"). Curiously, at the time those things could be seen as pluses (and rephrased as "a fresh approach to the world's oldest profession", "belief in the material rewards of hard work" and "honest depiction of the complexities of the rich"), and maybe they will again if the cultural zeitgeist continues to zigzag (we'll "rediscover the allure of past viewpoints"). It's not that such takes are wrong per se, or even incomplete (though they are incomplete, as all takes are). It's that, art being the interpretation-generating machine that it is, anyone who wants to analyze aspects of a work of art, even not a "superior" or "highbrow" one, should approach the task with some humility, with an awareness of its context-dependency and finitude, to avoid the lure of moralism.
Fun fact. Apparently the costume designer has been commissioned multiple times to create custom red ball gowns - a lot of men want to reenact the necklace scene with their wives. And strangely, she notes that many of these men are from Texas.
13:50 "And while this is framed as a heroic moment, it also seems like he's defending his property as much as he is her honour." Sorry, what??? Preventing someone from being raped is about defending someone's _honour_ ? Not their mental and physical safety, but their damn _honour_ ??? Talking about toxic ideas ... Edit: I am shocked at "The Take"'s insinuation that Edward should have defended Vivian's _honour_ instead of Vivian as his property. And it's a damn toxic idea that a woman who is raped is being _dishonoured_ . She's being harmed physically and especially mentally. The problem with rape is not that after a rape the victim loses their damn _honour_ .
@@soniashapiro4827 Not sure if I made that clear but I'm having a problem with the phrasing The Take chose. The scene in the film is a problem that they address but the way they address it ...
They're referring to what comes out of his mouth. He doesn't express concern for her or upset about him happening her, he expresses anger at him beer professionally ungrateful.
@@mechantechatonne I get that. What they do is criticise Edward for being mad at his business partner for being ungrateful. And that instead he should have been mad at him for trying to harm Vivian's _honour_ or that he (Edward) should have prevented the rape in order to protect Vivian's _honouor_ . It's a toxic idea in itself that "The Take" acts as if being raped harms the victims _honour_ and not the victims physical and especially mental well-being. I hope I made that clear enough. Please let me know if I didn't.
@@camelopardalis84 I think it depends on what honor means to you. If it means your dignity then it's fair enough to expect someone to be protective of that. But need whether he was more worried about her safety, happiness or honor, any if those would be better than what we got, him more worried about what this action said about his feelings for Edward than anything in relation to Vivienne at all.
It actually interesting to me because in the scene where he insults her by telling Stucky that she's a hooker, it doesn't occur to him to truly a genuinely apologize to her until AFTER he sees that she didn't take his money. Which makes me question if he would have apologized if she had.
She literally got paid for the "companionship". She was doing it on purpose, it was meant to be transactional. I understand that the transactional nature should have been shown as a negative, but she was willing to do that. She was willing to show him the beauty in things, so what's the issue? Everything else you said made sense though.
Ironic since “Pretty Woman” was produced and financed by Disney. Yes really! Of course, due to its depictions of sex work and attempted rape, Disney decided to release the film under its label “Touchstone Pictures”, so it wouldn’t be mistaken as a “family film”.
@@AlterRektMLG Well, the film’s depiction of sex work is very “Disney-fied”! Originally, Vivian was a cocaine-addicted sex worker who went back to sex work after her week with Edward, but due to executive meddling by then-Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg, Vivian was re-written as a *sober* sex worker who leaves sex work and becomes Edward’s girlfriend at the end.
17:08 *Toxic Takeaway 6: It’s a woman’s job to save/change a man* Am I the only who can’t see the misogyny and sexism embedded in that trope?! Hardly do we ever have men playing this part.
Yes you are, and there are examples of "Man must save/change woman" (while not as many in popular media, due television/cinema being a very male-dominated industry, even after the increase in the number of female writers and producers). The difference is that in the "woman save/changes man" usually the man will have deep psychological/emotional problems that only a woman can solve through the "power of love/being a woman" (because apparently therapy is for pussies/sign of weakness or some bullshit), but if the thing is that he's a soulful, brooding guy, then the girl will be a "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" to help him liven up and be happy. Meanwhile the "man save/change woman" usually is the girl in question is this "wild, free spirit" whose "wildness/free spiritness" are bad for her because it's actually hurting or damaging he, and only he can help and save her from this bad bad life, usually to a stable and happy life of being a stay at home wife/mother. Both are horrible and sexist.
but this film is a paradox, an American paradox, cause if the film denigrates both the role of the woman and her identity, it is entirely dependent on Julia Roberts, you cannot put anyone else in her place and the film derives its value from her playing only ... you can change Richard and all the furniture, but not remove Julia without the whole movie falling apart ...
On the issue of Edward's commitment of money: I tend to agree with you that this suggests he doesn't fundamentally change, but if the main axis is the idea that Edward is actually "like Vivian" (thus still based on prostitution-is-a-bad-activity trope) except that he doesn't seem to have her good side, then his discovery that he does actually have such a side (revealed by Vivian) can be seen as an achievement: it's learning to accept and perhaps explore other things in himself that he had not paid attention to so far. It's a form of growing. I'd say that if he succeeds then his business practices will change (just as Vivian also changes jobs), but the movie doesn't dwell on that. (And a mainstream American movie going against money is not a frequent thing: Americans still seem to believe that the money and the perks it brings are a "good" worth "pursuing" or "fighting for". To go against that would make Edward seem more like a criticizable character -- what is he, a "socialist"?... That's an interesting problem in American culture, and the movie, being American, partakes in it. Consider also the scene you criticize, in which Vivian tries to buy a dress at a fancy shop, and her humiliation is later corrected by Edward throwing his money around. It is true that this scene implies money is the energy that makes everything possible; but it is also true that the scene can be read as heartless people, who do not see beyond Vivian's stance in life, can be humiliated in their own game (which will hurt them more -- they'd probably be pretty immune to being preached to) by someone who plays it better than them. Your analysis is basically negative because you're looking at the fact that this validates the game -- which is true, as far as it goes -- but you're leaving out the fact that the heartless people are shown as exactly that, heartless (i.e., money didn't make them better than Vivian), and that the reason why Edward is better than them is not that he has money (or more money) than they do, but the fact that he sees in Vivian something they do not. This is not just "paying lip service" or "praising the glory of money"; it's more complicated than that. :-)
Kit is not "less intelligent" as u said, she's just a lot more irresponsible than Viv, and that does not make her less intelligent. The concierge does not imply that Viv is property by comparing her to a necklace - he wanted to share his feelings and opinion about her because he's grown to respect and like her, but Gere's character does not have a friendly relationship with the concierge so naturally he will not openly say what he thinks because it's just not something a concierge should say to a guest. U also said that she gave away everything and was ready to change her life for him.. well of course she would! She was a prostitue in Hollywood with a terrible appartment, she gave nothing up, he did save her from a seedy terrible world. U said he while she gave up everything in her life and changed, he changed nothing, but he changed the most important thing! Otherwise there would be no movie! He changed his priority and outlook on life. She gave him his should back in a sense, so of course he changed. I love ur videos, but sometimes u can be way way off. But that's what makes this wonderful - different opinions come together in the comment section.
Honestly, in this society is not much to say that money is everything. The less you have, less people like you. More you have, more personal value you have. People can say that they love you but when the hard times come they go away.
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If you don’t think that it’s a woman’s job to rescue a man. Then it is no man’s job to protect a woman.
My girlfriend and I rescued each other. From our loneliness. She saved me from my depression.
I didn’t even know how depressed I had become until my girlfriend came into my life. Like the sun ☀️ shining it’s healing and nurturing rays on a flower 🌸
This is basically “I am not like other prostitutes” the movie
Totally, not all prostitutes look like Julia Roberts in her prime, which should be the first giveaway!
I don’t think we’ll ever be rid of the “I’m not like other (insert whatever) phenomenon” XD
Kinda but i do think it's important to destuingish that being a female prostitute, on the streets, with a pimp during the early 90's ( aids crisis) was a dangerous job and some of the choices made by Vivian are known to be good choices. Maybe it shouldve been less judgemental but it isn't wrong to be honest
@Estelle Lair there’s a few. There are people who do choose the job- but I’ve never known them to work on the streets. Usually, they’re either medium to high end escorts, or working in a legal brothel, or legally working as a sole operator.
When the job is like that, the flexibility of it can be pretty good. You can earn more in one good night that you can in a full work week. Which gives you more time for other things- studying, looking after your kids, or even having another job that doesn’t pay as well. In countries where full service sex work is legal, you don’t see anywhere near the amount of desperation that you do in places like The States. It’s just a job. A very flexible and sometimes fun job, even. One that people can do well and even take a certain amount of pride in- especially given how much amateur therapy is involved.
But it is important to distinguish this kind of sex work from the far more dangerous street work. Which is also one of the major reasons that sex work needs to be decriminalised. Because when it’s not illegal, it’s far, far safer.
The life of a sen worker should not be too glamorized or it could have looked aspirational for many young women with little wealth. It’s good that it was showed Vivian isn’t the only type of sex worker plenty of them are drug addicts or have mental health issues or face abuse or just seem to not be able to move form this world since it happens. The more glamorous and fairytale like experience of Vivian isn’t the norm. Even if there are people who kind of have that such as people who are escorts and people who do this short time while trying to get money for something else.
I hate that the "hooker with a heart of gold" thing is played as a novelty, as if sex workers are inherently bad people.
I think the problem is that it just sanctifies sex workers. Sex workers can be kind and sweet people while also still flawed.
It honestly sounds like a perfect nightmare to be a prostitute that's dead sober all the time
I wouldn't say it's a novelty as much as it is dehumanizing. Who cares how she became a hooker or how she feels about it? As long as she's there to validate a man whose virtue is in no way sullied by being her john.
It's this weird application of the Madonna-Whore complex on sex workers, honestly.
Chill out you are reading too deep into it
She’s right about flossing, you shouldn’t neglect your gums.
So true! I absolutely love my water flosser so much I convinced my husband to get his own
@@johndyer8776 Dang thanks for letting me know gonna floss now.
Amen!
There is 0 proof that flossing multiple times per day actually helps with dental health. That's why the US Department of Health and Human Services had to stop recommending it.
Brushing thoroughly has long been proven to be the best thing you can do for your dental health.
FYI guys, bad breath=not clean tongue. Use a tongue cleaner.
"We were just talking"
"I didn't like it"
OOP, TIME TO GO
right?? RED FLAG RED FLAG 🚩 🚩 🚩
It would be such a dealbreaker if Richard Gere weren’t so ding dong dang handsome
yeah, but he had richard gere's face though...
@Church of Film eyeroll
@@ambriaashley3383 I can hear Alex Meyer marching XD
Can you *PLEASSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEE* do the romanticisation and justification of cheating as long as it’s done between the main characters?
Gilmore Girls could be used as an example. Rory received ZERO consequences for cheating with Logan in the revival.
@@anaj835 or the Notebook or After
YESSSSSS!, and yes to the person who said the notebook. This has been my biggest gripe about romantic films and why I can’t watch them.
@@sophie2946 same
THAT PART!! It feels like just because it’s a side character, their pain isn’t important. It also goes with leaving someone at the altar. As long as there is some heartfelt speech about love and getting it right this time, to hell with the fiancé. I hate it!
I also felt uncomfortable about the way prostitution was glamorized in this movie. They also handle sexual assault in an insensitive way, and while Edward deservedly punches out Stuckey, they later argue not because he tried to rape Vivian, but over the business, and don't even call the police on him?! 🤦🏻♀️
well, to be fair, calling the police would have made no difference (or would have made things worse for vivian). since when does the police care about prostituted women?
Read the book "Paid for: My journey through prostitution." By Rachel Moran. She is an Irish woman. Amazing book.
Glamorized?
what do you mean glamourized?
Oh my God.... You just blew my mind... NOBODY CALLS THE POLICE FOR AN ATTEMPTED RAPE AND I'VE NEVER EVEN NOTICED?!
She and her friend imply that they're superior for not having a pimp, because that's a man who controls your life and finances, but then willingly signs up for a relationship with a guy who controls her life and finances. Like the end asks, whose fairy tale is this?
It gets worse. Avoiding the pimps is a sign that her character is far more mentally sound and together than the others. Not superior mind you, just more functional In other words, she has privileges and abilities that makes her life easier. In the end, she really is exactly like Edward.
The fairy tale where "I won't be controlled by a Man...I'm no slave...unless he's filthy rich & handsome...Then it's a deliverance".
I don't see it as superior, more a conscious decision understanding the consequences of having a pimp (you rarely get out the life with a pimp. They're violent, manipulative but serve as "protection" from being beaten murdered by John's. ..they'll beat and murder, though...) I completely understand not wanting to be up all night walking the beat, screw, suck, clean up repeat for someone else to take my money and give an allowance. Nope! Not superior, actually brave.
Edward was a business arrangement she could walk away from (but caught feelings and made a choice to be with him after leaving).
You can't leave a pimp. Only traded to another for money.
@ Just Dude Yo, The only difference is when he decides to leave her she'll life going back to her old way of life where as if she had a real pimp he might sell her to another pimp, kill her, or maim her.
Or murder.
Vivian comes from a broken, toxic home but is smart, loving, intelligent, confident, caring, witty, emotional and logical but yet becomes a hooker!! Edward comes from a toxic broken home has terrible attributes and is highly insecure, completely revenge driven, self involved and incapable of committing in a relationship.. But yet gets to be incredibly successful! Ok 🙃 In reality their relationship would never have worked as he is way to controlling and would have always have reminded Vivian of her past to make her feel less than when he felt she was distancing herself from him.. If Edward's not in control. Watch out..
So... Stevie and Joseline from Love and Hiphop would be a more realistic version of them, right? He always threatened to "send her back to the strip club" whenever they fought and they were as toxic as can be.
Yeah thats pretty much it
I get the feeling she came from a small-town background where there wasn't a lot of opportunities or things to do.
No wonder she ends up in this position if she believes in fairy tales at her age. Plus a soulless financial who lives on ripping off others is far from Prince charming and needs himself saving from his inner misery. All of this looks like a nightmare not a fairytale. Reminds you of young Trump and Melania's story, we all know what a Prince charming this Epsteins lifelong friend is and how happy Melania is with him. You can see her soul extinguished in her eyes, and all of this for what? Who in a sound mind would consider jumping into this filthy tank full of deeply disfunctional sharks as a fairy tail? I say that's a burden more than an opportunity and through him she lets into her world new shades of human misery that might be much heavier and deeper than her financial or professional issues. I am always buffled by people who see Cinderella type of stories as fairytales and not nightmares. I see how stupid illiterate girls who migrate from Siberia to Moscow in hopes of marrying an Oligarch could believe in such non sense, but how can this still be thought in modern Western developed societies? Who are the people who consider marrying an Eric Trump or a Saif Gaddafi as a dream and not a nightmare? This whole fantasy of getting with any random guy as long as he is a rich prince is no different from prostitution with one permanent client. No wonder this movie gave her this job. It can very well be denouncing such fairy tales that preach a dream where de facto girls are prostitutes and boys - thieves. She was not as much a prostitute when she earned money using her sex like others use their hands, as when she said "I want a fairy tale" when reffering to dumb Cinderella type tales, where she gets with a random guy in exchange for his status and wealth. That's where she truly embraced her role. Same goes for the guy who basically employs her. You can read this movie as : marriage of interest = prostitution with one client and fairy tales are a romanticised propaganda of this. Always hated Cinderella type fairytales that are just stupid and offensive when you look beyond the surface.
I agree to this comment but I also think Julia's character should be viewed with more compassion and open mindedness and less judgement on her own view and perspective of the world according to her terms and the type of life she has lived and experienced. Even before getting with the wealthy character, Edward and getting to know him better, I think the job of prostitution in itself for some people is fantasy and an escape profession for them as well aside from desperate need for quick money. Not all prostitutes come from broken families as many people may assume. Some people may even go into prostitution because they simply lack motivation to work regular jobs and work hard for their money.
Vivienne is also an example of cool girl the way they make her seem really into cars and a bit goofy
The goofyness is julia roberts being herself. The director or script didn't tell her to be so goofy.
Because it's so unrealistic for women to be into cars.
Ofc she's the cool girl... Why would they show a real girl that has issues and is struggling in a line of work that would most likely cost her A LOT
wow she's into cars, so crazy. Guess that makes her non-binary too. What a revelation she is.
I don't see it. Cool girl exists as an extention of a guy, Vivvien is a whole individual, but she's needy.
Rich, possessive, controlling love interest... So, Edward is basically a proto Christian Grey!
Edward is Edward from Twilight
@@alienated1847 well Fifty Shades of Grey originally started out as Twilight fanfiction
@@beethovensfidelio yeah ik but like Edward and well... Edward thats why I made the comparison
Sorry but Christian Grey is WAY worse than Edward... (from Pretty Woman I mean, not Twilight lol)
Are you romance-shaming me?
"Big Mistake. Big. Huge. I Have To Go Shopping Now." Vivian
Yes, such an iconic quote, and a reason not to shop on Rodeo Drive in a hurry!😉
I am being humble when I am telling you that I am the most powerful strongest coolest smartest most famous greatest funniest Y*uTub3r of all time! That's the reason I have multiple girlfriends and I show them off on my ch*nnel all the time! Bye bye kon
I can literally hear this
Also Dwight Schrute.
Sad. I don't know one line from this movie and never watched it. That dream was White, very surprised you knew it. Programming is powerful!
Can you please do the romanticisation of toxic relationships in teen fiction that is marketed toward young girls?
YES,as a teen girl who is the target audience for most of these teen shows and movies with extremely toxic characters and relationships I am over it. One of the biggest teen movies this year was After we collided, and the relationship between the main two characters was difficult to watch due to how toxic they were. And let's not forget that in these teen shows/movies they are ALWAYS having sex which is something that puts pressure on teens to lose their v card. Directors and writers of these stories need to realize that teens are impressionable and seeing toxic relationships shown as "romantic" on TV and movies can lead to people not leaving abusive relationships.
@@alannallama3334 Ughhh I hate the After series. The books and the film series
@@zendayasfruityfrenchfry1784 I haven't read the series since I heard it's way more toxic and graphic, but I have seen both the movies(and I hated them). I don't understand how movies like After and the Kissing Booth are already getting 3rd movies. Both show toxic characters and relationships.
@@alannallama3334 the effect has already started. It’s sad
*women
99% Hollywood chick flick/romance would've different outcome if the protagonist was ugly.
....or if Gere were just an average looking blue colar guy instead of a handsome millionaire.
Yep, if the prostitute wasn't conventionally pretty, or the male lead was simply an ordinary blue collar worker, then it's likely that they wouldn't be romanticising the story as much.
What does ugly even really mean? Slap long hair and some make up on most people and they’re “pretty”
@@trinaq Well, I imagine being pretty is in the job description in sex-work
it’s hollywood, the protagonists are never ugly, they are the protagonists
Edward never loved her. He loved what he believed he created/ what she became under his influence . It's more like Bride of Frankenstein
Guess he loved the idea of "what she could be" then. Much people fall for this
Or, as pointed out, the story of Pygmalion (which is the base for My Fair Lady - where in the original story Elisa leaves the professor in the end).
You rock for the "Bride of Frankenstein" shout out. It's such an under-discussed classic. And Dr. Pretorius is one of the greatest Universal antagonists.
But everyone wanted him most popular bachelor no one could have. He chose to ctakena chance and be with her. They did both improve each other on some level. i remember him asking his ex a question about what was wrong with their relationship and then improving from that too?
I remember her asking these are your friends? No wonder you camr looking for me. In the end he was becoming less stuck up rich man and He quit making money for money and being a horrible cooperate ass screwing people, and actually created something instead. Boats with a family's business i think it was
right 😂 Some people are really overthinking movies lmao
Start of movie "I don't need a pimp". End of movie "it's ok if the pimp comes with a limo".
So does that mean your bf is a pimp? Just wondering.
He's... When does he pimp her?
You don't know what a pimp means, or do you?
They started dating wym????
I think it would be slightly more accurate to say that she found herself a sugar daddy.
The real joke of the movie is he had a job everyone in the 80s respected and she had a job everyone bashed and the film said - lol, it’s the same job, tho.
lines like that are probably why people still enjoy it.
If the popularity and population of modern rehab centers have shown something, it is that the difference between her and many rich guys like him is that she has a lot of sex to physically and financially survive while he already scammed his clients out of money and has a lot of sex and drugs just by stupidity or to fill the inner void in his empty soul. Just two different types of decadence that lead to the same result and way of life.
Accurate! ...and they were correct!
@@m1k4t0r15 10000000000% ! Thank you.
@@m1k4t0r15 Different means to the same end.
I know it's a strange ask, but I kinda want a video about women in glasses and the tropes around them. Like, "They just need a make over" They are cold and calculating. Glasses make you "smart". etc and a comparison to men and discussion of other genders within that framework. How could one accessory give rise to so many weird stereotypes?
Yep. And it is still done till this day (Kristen wiig in wonder woman)
I think they made something similar to that it talks about the "famous makeover" in movies
Interesting!
@@honeydewmoon6448 They loosely touched upon it, but didn't really discuss it. So since the comments on that video had people who wanted a discussion on it, I thought it would be really good to touch upon the subject itself. For example, why is a woman with glasses considered "ugly" that she needs a "makeover"? And why are women with glasses also often seen as "cold" or "smart" or "cold and calculating?" maybe with the origins of the stereotype, etc and so on... like superheroes with glasses are said to be homey, but why is a woman with glasses not really viewed as sexy? But a man often can be?
well because historically in ~middle ages~ glasses meant you can read, you need to read a lot and you DO read a lot, hence you are smart and educated unlike 99% of people. this trope has very deep roots)
the most realistic part of this movie is the prostituted women who are dead, drug addicts (to handle the abuse that comes with the job) or mistreated.
Apparently, in the original script, Vivian would have had a cocaine addiction, and when Edward catches her flossing her teeth, she actually WAS supposed to have been doing cocaine. Also, Vivian's roommate Kit was also to have a drug problem, and would eventually succumb from an overdose.
That would still not be completely realistic since a significant chunk of sex workers aren't aren't abused o addicts. Of course there are those who are but sex work is quite varied and not as negative as the media portrays it.
@@macroxela I would guess if she's the kind of sex worker out walking the corner it's a lot more likely though.
Yes, in the real life, he'd become president and she would curse christmas from the White House. 😂
So true. My friend, who is a sex worker; had checked herself into mental health facility several times in the past year. One time she called me during covid lockdown when she had a psychotic breakdown after a traumatic experience (im guessing as she doesnt talk about it). I happy cried (after call ended) when she called me from hospital to confirm she was in there being looked after. Not a glamouris industry.
Regarding #3, it is quite funny, while "Titanic" having the same different-class relationship, it is gender-swapped, and once AGAIN it is the man "improving" the woman, by teaching her how to open up and enjoy herself, while the rich world of the woman and its rules are framed as ridiculous and bad and surely nothing desirable.
I don't necessarily know that I'd consider that quite the same- the film seems much more toned down in how much Rose needed to be "improved" versus acquiring personal agency for herself, learning to act on her own desires rather than society's. Even though that is a case of "a man teaching a woman a lesson", I never got the impression that we were meant to see Jack as being superior to Rose, just someone so drastically different that it causes her to re-evaluate her own life and needs
Arranged marriage is a kind of prostitution. Rose's mom was pimping her out to someone Rose did not love to remain in the same social class and level of power Mom had grown accustomed to.
Well there is an expectation that a relationship should bring something new to your life, enrich it in some way. That is often what leaves a lasting impression and sparks attraction. We definitely see this standard for both sides. They have to be able to provide something that their partner wouldn't get in their life as a single. There is also the expectation that the partners will change over time within the relationship, ideally for the better. That they grow together.
This trope is also seen in reverse. Women are often the Manic Pixie Dream Girl that reignites the Man's humanity & passion. Men are often the handsome Rich Man who shows there's still good in the world who can provide security and resources. It's in this framing that we see what men and women are respectively looking from one another.
I think in Titanic Jack is Rose's manic pixie dream boy. Because he's pretty much the definition of that trope only male. A character that, "exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures."
That's not a fair comparison at all. "You are less than, but with me you will be good enough" is not the same as "You are unhappy, but with me you will be happy." Not to say that the latter is entirely problem-free, but it's not the same as the former.
Are we supposed to pretend that sex work isn't a dangerous job and a large percentage of the people who do it aren't damaged?
Yes.
You're being hateful and unaccepting! Reeeeeeeeee
I think you probably know a ton of sex workers but they would never tell you. Can sex work be dangerous? Yeah but is it much more dangerous than dating for a woman probably not.
@@angellover02171 you're delusional. Sex work is way more dangerous.
The movie doesn't glamorise sex work, and The Take addresses that. If you saw the first five minutes of the video, maybe you wouldn't have needed to comment on that.
But many of these dangers would go away if it was just legalised. But the endless parade of second wave SWERF orgs and conservative politicians who cheat on their wives double down on the bans that make the practice more unethical and risky than it needs to be, while progressives hail the deeply flawed and dangerous Nordic model as a bastion of female empowerment.
You forgot the most important breakdown of Edward was when Vivian told him "Baby, I'm going to treat you so good, you're never going to let me go!", to which Edward coldly responds "I will let you go". Pretty much sums up that she is just arm candy for a week. Oh, and when Elizabeth complimented Vivian at the polo match by telling Edward "Wherever did you find her?" and Edward sneers "1-800-babe" and walks off, leaving the woman stunned in disbelief.
that was such a dick move, just why why would you do that to someone who’s been nothing but sweet and loving to you
Excellent take Kate. U hit nail on the head. Edward sees her as property
Seriously? He said that in the beginning of the fucking movie..
She was just a prostitute to him and he was just a customer to her at that point. Nothing toxic about that.
And about the polo match: Why is what he said an issue for you? He was probably telling the truth and wasn't ashamed.
@@yourtypicalinternetcommenter11 For the sake of ego that's why
@@brucepacetti2044 Yes but maybe only at that point in the relationship he saw her as property. Later on he comes to respect her more as a woman with many Good qualities , it appears anyway.
Women have actually credited Pretty Woman as being an inspiration for getting them involved in the sex industry because it glamorized the profession and made it look incredibly lucrative.... so there’s another toxic takeaway
Ewwww!
Who? I've never talked a sex worker that has said once.
Honestly if they did that’s on them just like you getting a lotto ticket doesn’t mean you win the lottery becoming a sex worker doesn’t mean you’ll meet a man that will take care of everything for you ... there where plenty of other points in the movie that pointed out how un safe and scary it is and the dangers of being a sex worker
@@angellover02171 Watch a documentary called Nefarious: Merchant of Souls.
Sounds like an urban myth put about by swerfs.
Let’s be honest, everybody loves Pretty Woman but the movie is pretty unrealistic.
I can't speak for you, but when I saw the film for the first time, I did not expect a documentary.
@@MickeyKnox Me neither honey.
I hated it, my cousin and I stopped watching midway because it was so cringy.
@@MT-zu2uq I've always hated Prwtty Woman and I saw it in the theaters when it was new.
Movies don't have to be realistic. It's fiction.
_"Overall, Pretty Woman reaffirms the idea that money is everything, that without it you're powerless and insignificant."_
I mean...they're not wrong. There's a reason the phrase "money talks" exists. It's true that individuals have worth and value regardless of their finances, but in the larger world structure how much currency you have (be it money, influence, etc) still plays one of the main roles in your social value. Even as a UA-cam channel...having that Verified checkmark gives you more currency than a channel without one, even if you made videos on the same topics. It's the nature of the world right now, unfortunately. You don't have to like the message, but we can't pretend like the movie is wrong for saying it.
100% Agree
There's a difference between "Money is everything in this world, and that's too bad" and "Money is everything in this world. Ain't that great?"
I would kind of agree.
A lot of sex and drugs is a filthy thing when you do it for survival.
However if you are rich first and do a lot of sex and drugs after, than it's cool, it's rock and roll baby, you're a rock star. 😂
The same way of life 2 interpretations based on how rich is the one who practices it.
@@obato76 I agree, but I also don't think the movie promotes _love_ of money. I think it promotes _necessity_ of money. Edward's money didn't actually win him Vivian, in fact the opposite. Her line "no wonder you came looking for me"...it points out that Edward isn't happy in his world of money, and initially Vivian rejects his monied world because of people like Stucky. He didn't win Vivian over with the limo, but rather that he chased after her for the (admittedly weakly written) "grand romantic gesture" trope. And money didn't make all of Vivian's problems go away either. Sure, she had fun on her shopping spree, as anyone might after bare bones for an extended period, but she doesn't rest on her laurels. She takes the money and decides to go back to school, and she gives some of it to her friend and encourages _her_ to chase a dream. It's not that money solved her problems, but money made them easier to overcome. So again, I wouldn't say the movie promotes the love of but rather the _necessity_ of money.
I love your perspective, is very refreshing to see your opinion isn't condescending on female sex work, actually all the opposite, sometimes i feel the writters of the fake ar3 far too radical
I feel like Bridget Jones's Diary is toxic too.When I was in my early 20s I loved that movie. Now that I'm older and have more perspective, I see how ridiculous it is. She was called old at 32 and fat at an average weight. It also makes it seem women are obsessed with marriage
She also lives in a spacious apartment near Borough Market all by herself and she's contended by two handsome wealthy men. How the hell are they depicting her as a fat (?!?) looser?
That's a tricky one - you can't document/reflect current social attitudes without perpetuating them. Bridget Jones was explicitly created as a "Cosmo woman" - a stereotypical 30-something woman in mid-90s London trying (and inevitably failing) to live up to the happily married, anorexically skinny, sexually adventurous, successful career woman ideal presented in Cosmopolitan and other womens magazines.
Bridget Jones was a look at "what is" rather than a model of "what ought to be" and her happy ending in the movie comes not from her attempts to fill the Cosmo mould, but from her home life, her failures, and the boy next door - she doesn't end up skinny and married.
Well there are a lot of women obsessed with marriage and relationships in general.
Men can talk about various topics but I hear women talk about relationships 90% of the time.
@@timothyo718 Uh-oh, they're boutta call you a misogynist and sexist now, bro 😂
You have to judge by the context of the time. Unfortuantely, until more recently than any of us would like to admit, women in particular _were_ still considered old as they entered their 30s, _especially_ if they were single. It's the old "clock is ticking" judgement. Single at 30? You pitifiul spinster, you're running out of time to have babies and a family! You're wasting your life! And yeah, anything above a size 8 would have been considered too round. Anorexia was at a high in the 00s, bare midriffs were in style, the perfect hourglass was the ideal. It sucks, but that's the fact of the standards in the time Bridget Jones's Diary was made. It's not the movie hasn't aged well, it's that that time period didn't age well.
Bridget ended her Diary movie still curvy, still unmarried, still awkward....but happy. _That,_ by contrast, aged _very_ well.
I would so like to see Vivian and Edward's relationship after 30 years:did they have any shildren? What did their fights look like? Any individual/couples' therapies? Did Edward start a charity or a project that helped a community?Did Vivian discover any talents of her own and start her own career? Was she allowed to talk to other men?
All good questions. We could ask these about every Prince Charming/Cinderella story, as a veil is always drawn over everything that happens after the proposal.（A notable exception being the marriage of Shrek and Fiona which blew apart the fairytale framing）
I would put money on them not having one. I think he would use her as training wheels to learn how to have a relationship then go marry someone appropriate and find other girls like Vivienne, but just for business trips.
Having just watched I just can’t buy them as real enough to want a “Pretty Woman 2.”
I love how The Take is making Toxic Takeaways for Romantic Comedies it shows you should never believe everything a movie teaches or the message they send
Nor should you believe every woke critic.
I think it would be toxic to not show the horrid life of prostitution.
Yeah...I don't get this critism at all in this analysis video. This trend lately that sex work really isn't that bad and is really just like any other job is low key concerning to me. When you consider the dangerous aspects of it as well, the fact that some sex worker's don't deal with this and conduct their busines in a safe environment, doesn't negate those dangerous aspects that exist working as a prostitute.
@@Passions5555 well for one there are many kinds of sex work not just being an escort or selling sex in general, strippers are considered sex workers as well as people who have only fans (sell nudes), sell fetish photos like pics of their feet and stuff and their used clothing, and porn stars. A large part of the toxic/violent side of sex work comes people outside such as police, clients, and if they have one, pimps. People's change in their treatment of sex work is because they're normalising it which allows workers to be more open and able to ask for help, a large part of the abuse they face is die to the fact they have to keep their jobs a secret/they are looked down upon thus law enforcement rarely ever tried/tries to bring them justice and they are unable to tell anyone about it to get help, it's literally just about treating sex workers with the basic decent respect that they deserve as both people and workers
@@Passions5555 sex work would be less dangerous if it was decriminalized, destigmatized, and common proper harm reduction was commonplace and regularly practiced. :) (view my smiley face as sheer rage)
@@FeministCatwoman THANK YOU 🤭😂
@@Passions5555 They kinda have a point that prostiturion being disneyfied was a ludicrous L
This is why you guys NEED to do a video on the Hulu show Harlots, and how amazing, underrated, underexposed, inclusive & not preachy it is about selling sex.
Harlots is the best. Even better than Confessions of a Call Girl.
I just wish it hadn’t been cancelled
Harlots is a hidden gem
Yep! Because it’s produced and written by women! Shows the difference that makes, doesn’t it?
I imagine what a beautiful thing is to sell sex! Do u know how dangerous is to mental health to sell your body? U people are going nuts
Hold up was Edward, Christian Grey before Christian Grey was Christian Grey?
Hahah! It certainly seems so.
Omg but Christian Grey is based on Edward Cullen and... same name 👀
No, because Vivian is not Ana - she's neither clueless, nor a virgin.
@@thegoldenpolarbear5936 another person wouldn't play into Christian's act. Only a clueless virgin who accepts everything has to be as he says enables him to be that guy.
Can you pls pls do the stereotype of the ‘european’ ? Both the good and the ugly
or Europe from American perspective, i'm looking at you "Emily in Paris"
And while doing it, call it „western european” and not just the european. Most americans when thinking about Europe they think about the west (England, France, Italy etc) and those are the stereotypes you mostly see in movies, while Eastern Europe is a totally different world
@@frida5680 eastern europeans only get adapted as gangsters. Female characters sometimes (rarely) get the femme fatale trope... And that's it.
@@muflon8342 ah yes, the beautiful russian/ukrainian spy in Bond type moves uugh. And since I’m polish, I see only the „dumb, poor imigrant” trope when it comes to polish people in movies
"The" European? I think media treat Swedish people very differently from Polish, French, Russian, German, Italian ... What is "the" European to you?
I would argue that in America money IS everything- so in that sense it’s realistic. If this film was made in another country, it could have a different message.
That's a good point
There's a difference between "Money is everything in this world, and that's too bad" and "Money is everything in this world. Ain't that great?" - obato76
1 day ago
good point
Oh because the people in Italy and France care nothing about money. 😂😂
You guys should do a take on the male and female best friends always ending up together trope seen in RomComs and how it has affected our perspectives/expectations of having male and female best friends.
Please do a video on Bridget Jones's diary because it did not age well. At all!
Yes!
Yessss
You read my mind! Casual racism, classism, misogyny, toxic behaviors from both Mark and Daniel, Bridget is practically a Becky herself.
I watched that movie recently (I was 11 when it came out) and I didn't like it all. Yes, there were some mildly entertaining parts but Bridget came off so damn whiny and needy. And the mere fact that she was supposed to be a plus sized heroine is laughable. I just couldn't relate to an uppity, entitled women pining for the love of two misogynistic men.
@@florjean965 I was around 13 when it came out and I remember the promotion for this movie was how Renee Zellweger gained like 30lbs to play the role. Bridget wasn't even chubby, her BMI was in the "normal" range. It was also promoted as a girl-power feminist movie, which is laughable.
Sleeping With the Enemy is really part two of Pretty Woman
I think I watched Pretty Woman for the first time back in college, and I remember feeling viscerally uncomfortable the whole time. Like, “This is the ‘romantic comedy’ of our age that everyone loves and adores?” I just felt awkward...
Same.
care to elaborate?
@@19Rena96 A sex worker who never does anything she could find degrading, prostitution seems very nice !
She is bought by a very rich guy who can give her anything, what a hero !
If i had a daughter i would punch everyone involved in this film.
Vivian deserved better than Edward, in my opinion. The film sends a problematic message that all sex workers simply want to be saved. True, Edward tells Vivian that she could be so much "more", as if she's synonymous with "less".
.....but they do.....
At least 99% of ''sex-workers'' would choose something else if they were able to do so. If they wouldn't then there are other forces at play that makes it difficult for them to hold onto a job or leave prostitution, such as addiction, pimping, human-trafficking, etc..
And I am not talking about middle-class chicks who use camming or only-fans as a side gig, I am talking about women who be selling BJs next to the road for little to nothing while putting their own lives and health at risk. Or women working in the west to send money to their families back home.
Exactly or that being saved means having a man. Not owning a business or doing any other type of self improvement.
@@angellover02171 it would have been very interested if he just gave her the money and she used it to start her own bussiness or something like that. Though it does imply she was going back to study anyway, doesn't it? And the friend does decide to try becoming a hairdresser.
@@OpheliaNL Can we talk about classism within the sex industry too? Why are street workers looked down on when, for example, top-money escorts or the "middle-class chicks" doing cam work aren't quite painted with the same brush? You know that society at large starts to dehumanise a person as soon as they find out they're a sex worker, so why make these distinctions?
I wasn't ever on board with this movie. I hated this movie even when I was a teenager. This may be the reason that I hate most romantic movies.
"Yeah, you can have all the "stuff" in the world as long as you have no boundaries towards me, and let me control everything, you do.", which Vivian goes along with...
So that means.....
Your not like the other teenagers? 😉 🤷
Another flaw of Edward is he immediately gave her true identity to Stuckey at the horse event.
She’s just the beautiful young lady, that he can show off at events and that he also dreams about romantically.
But he wouldn’t be willing to openly speak about her being a sex worker.
I don’t think he would ever risk his reputation or his job for her. This relationship only works as long as she acts completely conventional and adapts to his world.
This story might have a happy ending for a while, but can anybody imagine them having the same circle of friends, with deep, honest friendships, them having kids, her gaining 30 pounds, them still loving each other? I can’t.
He created his dream girl and as soon as she would become to difficult for him, he would ditch her.
I first watched this film when I was 16 as I’d grown up hearing people talking about it and quoting it like it was the best romance movie out there. However when I watched it I honestly couldn’t see what all the fuss was about. It felt like it was written by some rich guy who got rejected by a sex worker and wrote this fantasy to vindicate himself. Nice to finally hear and understand all the reasons why this film is toxic. I thought I was the only one.
I wonder what Pretty Woman would be like if it stuck with it's original dark tone.
Better.
Requiem for a Dream
Accurate…unfortunately
It wouldn't be as successful as it is today. I think a lot less people would have watched it.
The film never potrays Vivian as liking her job, but needing it because she has no other choices.
He treats her like a naive rube, because she IS a naive rube. This is a fish out of water story. Of course that's the dynamic. There is nothing inherently toxic about mentor/mentee roles.
If we're doing romance for a while, how about Marge and Norm from Fargo? They are like the perfect down-to-earth couple.
Oh, they are the sweetest couple! There is such gentleness between them
Yes, Marge and Norm are such an underrated couple, and I love how they subvert the usual gender roles, with her being a badass cop, and him being a mild mannered painter. They constantly support each other, and you just know that they'll be excellent parents to their unborn child.👶♥️
Yes!
Have I seen this film? No.
Will I watch this video to support the take? You bet!
i’ve never watched 70% of the films and tv shows on this channel b i love the channel anyway
@@jackiez8946 same! Haha
mood
How does watching it support this channel?
@@TCt83067695 helps add watch time to support youtube’s algorithm
You should do a video on the Short Man trope.
Jason Alexander is a good example in this very movie. Short men are typically portrayed as unattractive, creepy, undesirable, and unlike able in films. Others are portrayed as having a short fuse with Napoleonic syndrome. Hyper aggressive and full of rage. Joe Pesci, Al Pacino, David Proval are good examples.
Interesting idea. And Dustin Hoffman?
With real life Short King Dr. Anthony Fauci.
Except i didn't look at his Height. I think it's more about his Slimy personality, and it would be stereotypical to say that he was cast in the role because he was short. I think it's more how he's so good at delivering his Lines that tell you he is a real Jerk.
Not only that but short, balding, hairy-bodied guys actually often have higher testosterone. It can be a medical condition. I think it’s called CAH.
Imagine this: A sequel for pretty woman depicting the disintegration of their relationship and vivian realizing she could do better. Maybe pursuing a career or an education ?
It's pretty funny that as much as the movie looks down on Kit, she's the one that decided to do that rather than be a bird in a gilded cage.
So go ahead and write something like that; as long as you're careful not to violate federal copyright law.
Why shouldn't you be the one to do it? Big ideas start with small seeds....
Become a dental professional?
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 Yes, what a wonderful romantic ending that would be, messing about with people's teeth.
I'd watch this!
My aunt and my ex-girlfriend from high-school both fell into prostitution out of addiction and were both murdered. Downplaying the danger of this lifestyle or making it socially acceptable is doing a disservice to society.
Yes, the woke crowd would have you believe it's progressive though but they are fooling themselves and others.
I personally think that sex work should be legalized. It will exist no matter what and making it illegal only makes the job more dangerous for these women. In a perfect world, we could snap our fingers and eliminate prostitution but people who pay for sex and people who will sell their body for money do not come out of nowhere. They exist due to wealth inequality and misogynistic objectification. < these are very big issues that will take a lot of lifetimes to solve so for now, we must do what we can to protect the people who felt they had no choice but to sell their bodies for money, so that they could LIVE. Why are these people punished so harshly and the MEN who pay for their services and often organize the system let off more easily. It’s not about making prostitution socially acceptable, it’s about making a better life accessible to those who felt they had no other options, no one to turn to.
@@vortexofweird Your comment doesn't address the whole "men that think you're an object sometimes break you like one" thing that got these women killed at all. What about it being legalized would have saved these addicted women from being murdered by johns?
@@mechantechatonne Right? Unless the prostitute has a body guard where ever she goes. Being safe from harm is still not completely guaranteed.
@@mechantechatonne I understand that it’s not as if there would be guaranteed protection in all circumstances (but you could say that about a lot of legal jobs...). I think it isn’t hard to see that legalizing prostitution would also open the door to infrastructure and working conditions being improved. It would be easier for a woman working as a prostitute to report abusive violent behavior and it would give them easier access to healthcare/STI prevention. Perhaps a hypothetical addict could then afford access to therapy/rehab.
Obviously the movie is extremely problematic and toxic but that shopping scene is absolute gold. Nordstrom used to use that in their training videos and probably still does.
She's a robot for a man that wants a woman that does as she is told and she's pretty stupid in something's but in others she's smart (things that he likes). She's helpless but she has this cool bad girl personality to her . (ROBOT)
Me: wow. Great points in this video.
Also me: wish someone would sweep me off my feet like that and save me from student loans👁👄👁 rofl
It's not a relationship. She is an escort / sugar baby. Its her job to provide the perfect companionship to Edward in exchange for gifts and money.
@John Abel men don't value women though that's the problem. It doesn't matter what you ask for or what you give. Go watch the Gone Girl analysis.
@John Abel It's their take on it, like any of the video on this channel.
@John Abel We could say the same whenever a person states opinions or theory that differ from ours =just because we disagree someone's statement doesn't mean it serves an agenda. Anyway, it's not written in stone, so...
@John Abel who doesn't deserve to be valued?
@John Abel WTF is a high value man? Lol
I've never seen Pretty Woman, but it sounds like the 80s version of 50 Shades.
90s
Watch it. It's good. A classic for a reason. Nothing like it is made out to be in this piece.
Without the virgin
It's not as openly abusive and controlling. Also it's not clear that the protagonist had abusive relationships before like CG clearly did.
50 Shades was the dumbest movie, book ever wriiten. Pretty Woman was at least entertaining.
Richard Gere's character acts & is treated like our real world royals, who so many worship to this day. It's a sad reality.
Money...
Well, except for the "Gerbilling" Rumor, lol!
Spoiler alert: Like all movies - this should NOT be fantasized as a possible reality for men and women. It is just a movie, and while it serves as a brief escapism, it is NOT to be taken as a life lesson. We should learn to enjoy movies and move on.
Unfortunately, as it's promoted as and presented as a romance at the least, it deserves the criticism it gets
While I agree that it's just a chick flick movie, it's still a little disturbing that it presents a romanticised attitude towards prostitution, and make it seem as though it's totally easy to get out of it, when the opposite is more likely. 🙄
@@trinaq "Just a Chick Flick movie" is a lazy pseudocriticism.
To say that we should just move on completely misunderstands the role of stories throughout human culture, and is just kind of lazy. Analysis like this is completely necessary for aspiring writers and anyone who loves learning in general - not to mention more enjoyable than some of the actual stories; Pretty Woman was boring AF. Are you just sad that someone said something in a movie you liked was subjectively bad?
that's how I watch most movies. I don't like this one and most of the rom-coms.
I always found this gross. He's still taking advantage of her even if he eventually "falls" for her.
One note on why Vivian is "better" than the other sex workers: this is frequent in movies (especially from that period) about people who belong to a marginalized group. Call it the "Robin Hood" effect: road bandits are bad, but not Robin Hood who steals from the rich to give to the poor because he has empathy. I imagine that a character like Vivian is good when we're in a climate in which people still think that the marginalized group in question has no such good people ("all road bandits are bad, there are no Robin Hoods" i.e. "all prostitutes are crack-addicted lowlifes, there are none with hearts of gold") so Vivian can be an eye-opening and perhaps empathy-inducing first look at the possibility that maybe things aren't really like that. The fact that she is the only one is, I think, supposed to keep the movie "grounded" "in reality" (because at the time nobody would believe it if sex workers were portrayed as normal people making choices). With time, the perspective widens.
Even when I was young, watching this movie for the first time, it troubled me in ways I couldn't understand until I got older. So thank you for voicing all the problems I've always had with it. I've always loved fairy tales, not for romance or happy endings, but because my whole life they have always been clear cautionary tales. Not all fairy tales have romance or happy endings after all. Honestly the only thing I ever really found commendable about this movie was the doing away with the idea that only a chaste woman can have true value to a man.
Honestly i would have prefered if the ending was different. Yes probably the original One was to dark but It would have been more credible and inspiring if they Just parted on good term at the end of the weekend. Vivien could have used the Money to search for an humble "normal" job and Richard could still have decided to change his business Plan.
Also I really dont get why She asked such a Low fee for the weekend, given her hourly fee She basicly agreed to give him her time for free.
Because it was a lot of money to her and it was with one safe, good looking client rather than with multiple unknown ones and lots of standing around waiting to be picked up. She basically sold him her time and services at a discounted rate for a bulk purchase. That's standard business practice.
@@_Sakidora_ Nah. She thinks that's a lot of money. Also the $300 for the whole night.
How it should happen: Edward hooks Vivian and takes her to the hotel room. After 20 minutes police comes and takes him into custody. He gets a fine and spoils his reputation. The film ends.
-You are a rich good looking guy. You can get millions girl for free.
-Yes, but then i won't be able to mensplain the whole movie to them
You should do the comparisons between Pretty Woman and The Princess Diaries! Both are made by Gary Marshall
Really? That explains so goddamned much. The Princess Diaries novels are way better; and thoroughly unromantic about the whole princess deal.
Can you do a video on queerbaiting in TV and Film
Yess
This would be great
I would love that as well as racebaiting
What is queerbaiting?
Cough *Supernatural* Cough
If this movie premiered today it would cause so much backlash and uproar.
Well thank god things changed
Not really look at the popularity of 50 shades and After their is a market for this somehow.
@@socialanxietydora4112 *there is (and how about a punctuation mark, or two?)
HOT TAKE: “Pretty Woman: The Musical” is just “My Fair Lady” with hookers.
I actually thought Pretty Woman WAS a modern adaptation of My Fair Lady
@@imagiccion I disagree. Eliza Dolittle in My Fair Lady was never a romantic interest for Henry Higgins. They never even kissed in the film.
George Bernard Shaw’s original 1913 play “Pygmalion” was a SUBVERSION and SATIRE of stories like “Pretty Woman” because it realistically portrayed the emotional and psychological toll this kind of “romantic makeover” would take on a woman in real life as her entire identity was uprooted and systematically trampled upon, and then concluded with an ironic twist; Henry Higgins’ coaching worked *too well*, Eliza transcends him, realizes she’s now too good for him, and leaves (hence the title “Pygmalion.”) When the play was adapted into a British film in 1938, the ending was changed to a more romantic happy finale where Eliza comes back to Professor Higgins, throwing out all the original subtext and playing the sappy melodramatic tropes straight. The 1956 stage musical (and later film) “My Fair Lady” was actually based more on the 1938 film rather than the 1913 play (even says so in the writer credits), utilizing additional scenes, lines of dialogue, and the new “happy” ending written exclusively for the film adaptation of “Pygmalion.”
@@giovannirastrelli9821 The original ending works philosophically but not emotionally.
I didn’t know there needed to be a breakdown of the toxicity in f this movie. The opening premise alone is just awful.
Is it me or the narrator sounded more annoyed and angry at this movie than the others she commented on??
i thought this too
Jealous
I love the the deeper insights & takeaways from this movie. Realistically, I don't think this relationship would have survived, it would have been a very codependent transactional relationship. I wish they gave Vivian more of a character arc, who had goals to be an accomplished woman, rather than just being a girl who wants a fairy-tale romance. There's nothing wrong with that, but to be a woman independent from what a man can give her. She could have been a self-made woman who starts her own business. She could create a life of her own rather than just mooching off of Edward. I know as long as she is with him, her lifestyle & status has improved, but did she earn it? She could be more than just a pretty face, and I don't know if Edward would have seen her as more than just his possession.
Yes agreed.I loved this film as a teenager but it definitely did not age well >a woman's empowerment through a man's money and even reeducation seems so hollow.Vivian as a charactewr was written to be charming and warm, and is able to tie a tie, has some knowledge about cars.That's it? Her creativity, ideas and ambitions were put aside if the character had any. If Gere's character was an average-looking, average-oncome Joe, his behaviour would have come off as sleazy and manipulative (hot/rich person rule).
But until the very end when Edward shows up at the fire escape, Vivian is actually planning on getting her life together, going on to something better. She makes a choice for love with Edward, and she's entitled to her own choice.
@@marpop4056 Good Point! The ending does show she can survive without him as she moves away from her old life to a new life. And that she has a choice to be with him or not.
Unfortunately a prostitute could only dream of a rich man pulling them from that lifestyle. Most usually have it hard right? A lot are drugged up or alcoholics. They have mental issues or trauma. It isn't easy for a prostitute to just become some sort of career women. There is a reason they chose prostitution in the first place. She was privileged enough based off of looks when he chose her, and actually getting money at all. She definitely could have used that opportunity to her advantage, so I agree.
@@usernameisunavailable8270 It's more unrealistic for a street walker than an escort. Lots of ex-escorts have moved into upper society.
I really enjoy The Take, but please stop putting the word "toxic" in every second preview! It start to look like all you explore in your essays is some kind of toxicity, and it just doesn't do them any justice. They are so much more than that!
This channel is generally about mining for negativity in conventional social and racial tropes and reshaping them, not actual film analysis
This isn't ScreenPrism anymore
@@Cunnysmythe "Here's why this 90's movie doesnt live up to our hyper-sensitive 2020 social standards!" That's essentially what this channel is. Finding the negative in anything people enjoy because it doesn't pass the wokeness test.
Pointing out the flaws or limitations in certain beloved media doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.
@@Ray03595 Never once in this essay was it said or even implied that liking the film was bad. I love this movie, I grew up with it! But examining the mistakes made in the past and reflecting on our ideas from that era are how we learn and grow. This is a middle ground! There's nothing wrong with loving these films, just like there's nothing wrong with criticizing them. Most of my all time favorite movies come from this era, and while I can admit to the fact that some of the messages they told were either wrong or just a little misguided, I know they were a product of their time and love them anyways. You're making a strawman argument.
@@allisonfields3108 What about these films are misguided though? They have intended messages. You see them as flaws because you have a 2020 mindset, but that doesn't mean your mindset is automatically correct.
Can you make a video about coming of age movies?
I’m really surprised they haven’t talked about “Lady Bird.” I love that film.
@@zendayasfruityfrenchfry1784 they have, search it
@@zendayasfruityfrenchfry1784 I think they did one already of lady bird??
Oh! Sorry about the misinformation. Thank you :)
@@zendayasfruityfrenchfry1784 no prob :)
Thank you for pointing this out. I was appalled by the fact that my parents introduced this movie to me as a sweet romantic movie when I was a teenager. It is NOT
Interesting fact: Meg Ryan was originally considered for the role before Julia Roberts got it.
Yuck they made the right choice
CONSENT. Vivianne can dictate her sexuality and how its used ONLY BY HER. She offered herself to WHATS HIS FACE and not to his creepy business partner. HER sexuality is only able to be offered BY HER. Ugh this was the worst. She wants to be kept and told what to do on HER terms. SHE is selling a product and can pull it from the shelf whenever she wants to. Why is this so hard to understand?
I remember my English teacher Mr.Barbour, foaming at the mouth about how twisted this movie was 😐
I just watched this last night with my mum and thought it was a bit yikes
Mum loves it tho so I won't ruin her fun
“Vivian is not like other girls” 😂😂😂
Breakfast at Tiffany's is honestly MUCH worse than Pretty Woman. Never understood how it became such a huge classic.
This one came out when I was in my early 20s. It was a huge box office hit and everyone of my friends loved it. I was appalled by how unrealistic it was a good looking investment banker would fall for a working girl. I didn’t see it and still won’t see it today. I wasn’t a feminist or worldly at that age but I just instinctively knew that this movie was wrong. Thanks to The Take for summing up the toxic aspects of this film. I feel bad for women who bought into this story and hoping for a prince to show up and make them over into a princess.
I suppose the defining moment of our times is that we seem to believe we've already figured out what "good" relationships are, and so we pass judgment on works of art based on this knowledge: we decide which ones are toxic (i.e., have bad messages, shouldn't be liked, etc.) and which ones aren't. I'm not really OK with that; it smacks of Stalin's "the artist is the engineer of the human soul" and suggests that works of art should have a mission, that art is ultimately prescriptive (which is, I think, the deeper meaning behind the use of the word "toxic": philosophical moralism).
It is always possible to point out that works of the past did not have today's sensitivities in mind ("mistreatment of sex workers", "celebration of materialism", "redemption promised to a greedy man"). Curiously, at the time those things could be seen as pluses (and rephrased as "a fresh approach to the world's oldest profession", "belief in the material rewards of hard work" and "honest depiction of the complexities of the rich"), and maybe they will again if the cultural zeitgeist continues to zigzag (we'll "rediscover the allure of past viewpoints").
It's not that such takes are wrong per se, or even incomplete (though they are incomplete, as all takes are). It's that, art being the interpretation-generating machine that it is, anyone who wants to analyze aspects of a work of art, even not a "superior" or "highbrow" one, should approach the task with some humility, with an awareness of its context-dependency and finitude, to avoid the lure of moralism.
I’m sorry number 2 is just true. Despite, being toxic money does buy power and significance. It cannot buy true happiness or love however.
Fun fact. Apparently the costume designer has been commissioned multiple times to create custom red ball gowns - a lot of men want to reenact the necklace scene with their wives. And strangely, she notes that many of these men are from Texas.
Why Texas?
13:50 "And while this is framed as a heroic moment, it also seems like he's defending his property as much as he is her honour."
Sorry, what??? Preventing someone from being raped is about defending someone's _honour_ ? Not their mental and physical safety, but their damn _honour_ ??? Talking about toxic ideas ...
Edit:
I am shocked at "The Take"'s insinuation that Edward should have defended Vivian's _honour_ instead of Vivian as his property. And it's a damn toxic idea that a woman who is raped is being _dishonoured_ . She's being harmed physically and especially mentally. The problem with rape is not that after a rape the victim loses their damn _honour_ .
I flinched at that too. Defended her honour, not her personhood.
@@soniashapiro4827 Not sure if I made that clear but I'm having a problem with the phrasing The Take chose. The scene in the film is a problem that they address but the way they address it ...
They're referring to what comes out of his mouth. He doesn't express concern for her or upset about him happening her, he expresses anger at him beer professionally ungrateful.
@@mechantechatonne
I get that. What they do is criticise Edward for being mad at his business partner for being ungrateful. And that instead he should have been mad at him for trying to harm Vivian's _honour_ or that he (Edward) should have prevented the rape in order to protect Vivian's _honouor_ .
It's a toxic idea in itself that "The Take" acts as if being raped harms the victims _honour_ and not the victims physical and especially mental well-being.
I hope I made that clear enough. Please let me know if I didn't.
@@camelopardalis84 I think it depends on what honor means to you. If it means your dignity then it's fair enough to expect someone to be protective of that. But need whether he was more worried about her safety, happiness or honor, any if those would be better than what we got, him more worried about what this action said about his feelings for Edward than anything in relation to Vivienne at all.
It actually interesting to me because in the scene where he insults her by telling Stucky that she's a hooker, it doesn't occur to him to truly a genuinely apologize to her until AFTER he sees that she didn't take his money. Which makes me question if he would have apologized if she had.
Edward is a narcissist, love-bombing Vivian so he can control her.
It’s the prequel to “Sleeping With The Enemy”
Without money, you are powerless and insignificant. That's a fact. It's just how it is, were you looking for a Disney show?
She literally got paid for the "companionship". She was doing it on purpose, it was meant to be transactional. I understand that the transactional nature should have been shown as a negative, but she was willing to do that.
She was willing to show him the beauty in things, so what's the issue?
Everything else you said made sense though.
Ironic since “Pretty Woman” was produced and financed by Disney.
Yes really!
Of course, due to its depictions of sex work and attempted rape, Disney decided to release the film under its label “Touchstone Pictures”, so it wouldn’t be mistaken as a “family film”.
@@beethovensfidelio That makes sense, I guess. What I meant was the family friendly branding where Disney can plaster their name all over.
@@AlterRektMLG Well, the film’s depiction of sex work is very “Disney-fied”!
Originally, Vivian was a cocaine-addicted sex worker who went back to sex work after her week with Edward, but due to executive meddling by then-Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg, Vivian was re-written as a *sober* sex worker who leaves sex work and becomes Edward’s girlfriend at the end.
17:08 *Toxic Takeaway 6: It’s a woman’s job to save/change a man*
Am I the only who can’t see the misogyny and sexism embedded in that trope?! Hardly do we ever have men playing this part.
Yes and the vice versa also happens.
Yes you are, and there are examples of "Man must save/change woman" (while not as many in popular media, due television/cinema being a very male-dominated industry, even after the increase in the number of female writers and producers).
The difference is that in the "woman save/changes man" usually the man will have deep psychological/emotional problems that only a woman can solve through the "power of love/being a woman" (because apparently therapy is for pussies/sign of weakness or some bullshit), but if the thing is that he's a soulful, brooding guy, then the girl will be a "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" to help him liven up and be happy.
Meanwhile the "man save/change woman" usually is the girl in question is this "wild, free spirit" whose "wildness/free spiritness" are bad for her because it's actually hurting or damaging he, and only he can help and save her from this bad bad life, usually to a stable and happy life of being a stay at home wife/mother.
Both are horrible and sexist.
@@GreyfoxRaposa ) thank you!
@@GreyfoxRaposa I think that the tendency is not for the man to "save" the woman, but to "improve" her like "My Fair Lady", which sucks as well.
@@GreyfoxRaposa But as you said it isn’t POPULAR so my first comment still stands because I NEVER said never, I only said HARLDY
This reminds me how long I've been crushing on Julia Roberts. I barely remember Richard Gere in this.
They should do a remake version with the original script.
What I'd love to see is how The Wolf of Wall Street does a better job of glamourizing 80s capitalism and misogyny than actually addressing it.
but this film is a paradox, an American paradox, cause if the film denigrates both the role of the woman and her identity, it is entirely dependent on Julia Roberts, you cannot put anyone else in her place and the film derives its value from her playing only ... you can change Richard and all the furniture, but not remove Julia without the whole movie falling apart ...
Great videos can you do the Native American stereotype in movies and shows thank you 😊
On the issue of Edward's commitment of money: I tend to agree with you that this suggests he doesn't fundamentally change, but if the main axis is the idea that Edward is actually "like Vivian" (thus still based on prostitution-is-a-bad-activity trope) except that he doesn't seem to have her good side, then his discovery that he does actually have such a side (revealed by Vivian) can be seen as an achievement: it's learning to accept and perhaps explore other things in himself that he had not paid attention to so far. It's a form of growing. I'd say that if he succeeds then his business practices will change (just as Vivian also changes jobs), but the movie doesn't dwell on that. (And a mainstream American movie going against money is not a frequent thing: Americans still seem to believe that the money and the perks it brings are a "good" worth "pursuing" or "fighting for". To go against that would make Edward seem more like a criticizable character -- what is he, a "socialist"?... That's an interesting problem in American culture, and the movie, being American, partakes in it.
Consider also the scene you criticize, in which Vivian tries to buy a dress at a fancy shop, and her humiliation is later corrected by Edward throwing his money around. It is true that this scene implies money is the energy that makes everything possible; but it is also true that the scene can be read as heartless people, who do not see beyond Vivian's stance in life, can be humiliated in their own game (which will hurt them more -- they'd probably be pretty immune to being preached to) by someone who plays it better than them. Your analysis is basically negative because you're looking at the fact that this validates the game -- which is true, as far as it goes -- but you're leaving out the fact that the heartless people are shown as exactly that, heartless (i.e., money didn't make them better than Vivian), and that the reason why Edward is better than them is not that he has money (or more money) than they do, but the fact that he sees in Vivian something they do not. This is not just "paying lip service" or "praising the glory of money"; it's more complicated than that. :-)
Kit is not "less intelligent" as u said, she's just a lot more irresponsible than Viv, and that does not make her less intelligent.
The concierge does not imply that Viv is property by comparing her to a necklace - he wanted to share his feelings and opinion about her because he's grown to respect and like her, but Gere's character does not have a friendly relationship with the concierge so naturally he will not openly say what he thinks because it's just not something a concierge should say to a guest. U also said that she gave away everything and was ready to change her life for him.. well of course she would! She was a prostitue in Hollywood with a terrible appartment, she gave nothing up, he did save her from a seedy terrible world. U said he while she gave up everything in her life and changed, he changed nothing, but he changed the most important thing! Otherwise there would be no movie! He changed his priority and outlook on life. She gave him his should back in a sense, so of course he changed.
I love ur videos, but sometimes u can be way way off. But that's what makes this wonderful - different opinions come together in the comment section.
totally agree with everything you just wrote.
If you're pretty enough, you can sell yourself off to a rich man and get the FAIRYTALE!
Pretty Woman always struck me as a romantic film for men ...
Honestly, in this society is not much to say that money is everything. The less you have, less people like you. More you have, more personal value you have. People can say that they love you but when the hard times come they go away.
I’ve never watched this movie and after watching this video, it’s confirmed to be more disturbing than I initially thought.