@The Take please could you do a Take on Lauren Faust's team dynamic theories that she used for a lot of her shows. Best material I know of is from MLP. Its five man band for girl's shows.
Atomic Blonde has the most realistic fight scenes with a woman battling against men. No high heels, no exaggerated flying kicks, she actually takes damage and even the henchmen don't go down easily or get defeated by a 120 pound woman. To top it off, they actually get tired and sluggish when beating up each other just like you would in real life so there's no unlimited or exaggerated stamina.
@@xensonar9652 You should watch this movie called, "The Raid". It's an Indonesian action film and I think it's awesome. Although it may not be all that realistic, you can still tell that there's some thought and effort that was put into the fight scenes. The story is captivating too.
@@awolf2393 Yeah, seen it. Great action film. To be honest, I don't mind crazy or unbelievable combat, even cheesy 80s action films, I just also enjoy when films try something different. Depends what I'm in the mood for.
Honestly, Villanelle from Killing Eve is a breath of fresh air. She isn’t too serious, she doesn’t dress to be sexy, she’s sometimes childish, she hardly wears the stereotypical black attire instead going for more colourful ones and she actually has a sense of humour.
Yep, I absolutely concur! 🙌🏾 I adore how they subvert your expectations with Villanelle, without sexualising her simply because she's a woman in a typically male dominated field, and offers her own quirks to the Trope. Jodie Comer plays her so brilliantly! ❣️😻
The irony is that assassins should follow the grey man idea of being utterally forgettable in public. People tend to remember hot bombshells: Not good for business.
I think it's one of those things where she still has her traditional feminity with her, like the final battle in Anastasia, when she took down Rasputin with her shor.
I know, heels LOOK fashionable, but they're not exactly the most practical choice of footwear. "Jurassic World" got a lot of flack for having its female lead flee from dinosaurs, whilst donning some impressively high stilettos, of all things! 😂🤣
@@dukeofdenver The problem is the “not like other girls” trope is often used to put down women who have more so-called feminine characteristics, which in this context are seen as “weak.”
One aspect of the Trope I've always questioned is that male fighters typically get easily covered in cuts and scrapes, while females must remain immaculately flawless at all times. 🙄
Dont forget at the end of the fight, she'll turn around to reveal slightly messy/frizzy hair and 1 (one) single artful smudge of dirt, to show that she 'did' fight without making her irrevocably ugly
Mad Max’s Furiosa gets MESSED up by the end. The Bride in Kill Bill gets roughed up a ton as well. If I remember correctly as does Salt, in Salt. It’s there. You’re probably not watching the good stuff lol
Also, the power and weight disparity would make it very hard for most women to kick ass... It happened to me that I got pushed back a step and when I returned the push, she was flying back! At times being 2x as heavy does pay off...
Yeah, even the way they film Russia as cold and dark. Coming from someone who is not even American, these movies influence the way we see Russians in my country too.
The bride/Black Mamba was already a badass female assassin before all that happened on Kill Bill, she wanting to retire from being a badass assassin was what triggered the whole movie plot...
You’re right. She was an assassin before Bill tried to kill her and take her child away. Granted I don’t remember her murdering anyone before “the wedding” but it is implied that she was one of the best, if not the best assassin in the group. So, I felt the argument went a little stale regarding her..
Also the Bride ends up reuniting with her child at the end and essentially being rewarded with a normal “nice” life after killing a lot of people and doing a lot of (what can be seen as) bad things which I think is a big step up from earlier female villains in America who usually die or get punished for seeking revenge/vigilante justice.
To me, the female assassin plays on our societies harmful perceptions on women. If a woman is beautiful, it is perceived as a sex symbol who is often brainless and in need of a strong man to protect her. If a woman in strong or independent, she is perceived as undesirable and a man hater who you don't want to cross. The Female Assassin Trope combines the two tropes and takes the best from each to make the sex symbol strong and independent, making her the ultimate nightmare for men in power.
The society I live in doesn't consider women like that. the undesirable strong independent women are not undesirable because they are strong it's because they think strong means being cold and forceful.
now THAT'S insightful tell that to 13:23 ... as if The Bride wasn't yet powerful enough to do what she did BEFORE she was put in a coma? as if she didn't need _motivation_ to do what she did? revenge doesn't happen without a devastating inciting incident, not b/c the character isn't "powerful" enough already, but because they aren't *motivated* before the story starts! maybe *you* should've written that article... is what I'm saying. love the comment!
I hated the movie "Colombian" the character lacked any personality and was only a sexual object and as a Latina it is horrible AH and forgot the TERRIBLE representation of Latin America, THEY LOOK LIKE ITALIAN NOT COLOMBIAN
@@darkstorm0433 I really dislike the fact that the internet is so US-centric that US norms dominate discussions of 'what society considers...'. It would be nice to have that reframed as 'US commercial representation of society considerers...'. I know that's somewhat pedantic but it would help offset the normalisation of what are in actuality pretty niche points of view.
I agree, I was SO broken up over Natasha's death. ☠️😭 I understand Tony having a funeral, but why couldn't Natasha have had a similar emotional send off? 💔
That scene in Endgame is my least favorite thing about the MCU. Would have been so easy to give Hawkeye his soldier send off and instead we lose the one woman from the original six.
Can you do one for the Grizzled Veteran Detective trope? He's old. He's cranky. He drinks. He smokes. He's quiet. He shoots first and asks questions later. He has 2 weeks before retirement.
Natasha´s movie should had been after the first Avengers movie or you know, anywhere BEFORE Endgame, to know what is her past she is being reformed from (therefore apreciate her develoment) from, with the movie just coming out after her death, it just feels like a confort price and doesn't feel like she´s got develoment and her character as an assasin feels like something shown and not told .MCU failed all her potential and i don't think they can amend that. Edit: i hate women figthing in heels, using the heels as a weapon could work but actual figthing would be too freaking unconfortable and impractical
I always thought her death scene in Endgame would have been so much more emotional if we had gotten the Black Widow movie before, so that we would have had more character development for her. But my theory is that they couldn't have shown it before Endgame because there is gonna be something in it that makes it so that for some reason she is not actually dead and that would have ruined the death scene. So sorry about the weirdly structured sentence.
one of women’s biggest natural advantages in fights is our lower center of gravity making us harder to knock over, so the concept of fighting in heels and completely destabilizing yourself is so fuckin dumb lol
THANK YOU! I've waited years for a Black Widow-movie! Honestly, I think the only reason why Natasha even gets her movie, is because of the sucess of "Wonder Woman". Because apperently, the people who work for Disney and/or Marvel, are so stupid, that the didn't thought, that a female-lead superhero-move would work. (Also, this has nothing to do with that, but am I the only one who is pissed, when I see a toy-set of the Avengers without Natasha or a set of the new "Star Wars"-characters without Rey, EVEN THOUGH SHE'S THE MAIN CHARACTER??)
I don’t mind the trope of the sexy lady assassin, but I would love to see more female assassins who are actually plain-looking and use that plainness to their advantage. After all, attractive women tend to stand out and draw attention to themselves, whereas women who are considered plain or undesirable are better able to fly under the radar. That can be kind of empowering, too.
@@adamovalkwiak4127 Envious you mean? Jealousy is more related to relationships and often needs at least 3 people. Interesting supposition though. Hmmm, I wonder how primitive are people who actually are envious of something? Never was able to rationalize and understand this. I think there must be some psychological issue with people who are able to actually feel irrational feelings such as this one. What does it even mean? Some stranger is better in something so I should jump from a bridge? This is not just stupid but a very unhealthy irrational way of thinking 🤔 Anyways my point was that, if one stands out easily in a crowd and many people remark and constantly pay attention to such a person, he/she would be ill suited for a job that requires secrecy and anonymity.
I’m confused about the rape in Kill Bill. It’s not a big part of the film. Beatrix wasn’t traumatized by it and she killed the rapist and the nurse immediately. That scene was only 10 mins and never came back up again and didn’t fuel anything in her for her mission. Her focus was finding Bill and then getting her daughter back. Plus, Beatrix had no weapons and couldn’t walk since she spent 4 years in a coma. So to she her in action for that scene showed how deadly and resourceful she can be with almost nothing.
I agree however her quest for vengeance and her journey to get it starts after the rape and at time when sexual assault is most prevalent in our consciousness I could see how everyone could look at it as the catalyst even though she already had her reasons for revenge
@@blackdragon6 it this specific movie, it adding nothing but extra pain when it wasn't needed and gave a bad example. Its as the video said, that the director added it to show is got stronger from that pain when this is so so stupid and a bad example
YES! Samuel L. Jackson and Geena Davis were excellent in that movie. That's one of those movies if you ask 10 people have they seen it, MAYBE one person has heard of it even though those huge stars are in it. I owned that DVD a long time ago and I was so mad when I went to watch it discovered that it had as they say, "grew feet" and disappeared.😐
I’m not hating on thin women; I’m a thin woman, but I find it interesting that all these experts at hand to hand combat weigh like 120 lbs soaking wet. I wonder if an expert at fight physics could tell us if the fight choreography is realistically taking such weight and simple strength differences between combatants into consideration.
It depends on your training, speed and ferocity are your friends when going up against people, especially those bigger than you Men and women have to be real disciplined in that or they die in 1 minute
Sometimes it can be done but it takes a bit out of you. When I took a jiujitsu, sometimes I had exams with people that were bigger than me. I remember vividly being able to kinda carry and throw a 6’1 230 man when I was 5’5 160. Obviously, I had more weight than those actresses but it’s all about the technique. I must say, that dude could pick me up like I weighted nothing and I had to throw him immediately cuz I couldn’t carry him for a long period of time. 🤣
When you talked about men not coming from trauma to be assassins you show a few clips from John wick, he goes through heavy trauma before he attacks anyone
It’s trauma creating the assassin’s motivation. They never said male assassins get teatime and teddy bears, just that most become assassins sans a revenge motive. John Wick was such an assassin already he was the assassin hired to kill assassins. Also, this smacks of ‘men have pain too’ which is a bizarre way to take this. Focus.
@@namedrop721 excuse me? John wick was an orphan forced to become an assissin against his will as a child. Forced into combat training, getting beaten etc from a young age. And had to come back out of vengeance for the people who killed the gift his dead wife gave him. So yeah... Tragic from the start.
Yep.. it's not a female-only issue for assassins... almost every assassin has gone through trauma or against their will to become the deadly assassin, because the audience has to sympathise with them, and justify ( at least to a certain extent ) their intent and that they would never harm innocents, if possible. And in modern culture, male or female both assassins/detective are objectified
You guys should do like a "Bad/Rebel Teenager Trope" and add iconic characters such as Haley Dunphy (Modern family),Poppy Moore (wild child),Evie Zamora (thirteen),Gia Mahan (full house)...etc
THANK YOU for mentioning The Long Kiss Goodnight! My favorite of these and also a horribly overlooked movie. Geena Davis could have been a major action star.
I always look forward to these videos. I never thought I'd be into cinema and I'm even thinking of picking it up to study at uni. Also it's really cool that two women created the take, I feel inspired by them.
I’m surprised they didn’t talk about how toxic the idea of infertility is in badass women stories. Like, they could have given MCU black widow ANY OTHER sad backstory, like remorse for being on the wrong side and now she wants to atone or betrayal in a time of need and she has trust issues or (idk I’m just spitballing here) maintaining relationships while also being a master manipulator because of her training and she sometimes she can’t distinguish between real feelings and a front. But they went with infertility. Smdh there’s more to being a ffffeeeeeemale than the ability to give birth. Ask any transgender woman. I will give credit where it’s due: I’ve also been critical of “pretty” assassins for a while. The best assassins are the ones that can blend into a crowd. Not turn heads on the street. The men who produce woman assassin movies don’t understand that simple concept.
@@christopherb501 hard to say. I’m still in denial that she’s permadead. If I had to guess, a thin ray of hope would be to show that she had a good family life BEFORE the brainwashing, and she held that memory afterward. Maybe she really wants that for herself someday. It really depends on the execution.
I would have liked her backstory in the mcu a little more if they focused on the fact that she was sterilised while indoctrinated. At no point did she have a choice in anything. If she didnt go through with the training; she would have been killed. If she does, she will be sterilised (the focus being she had her choice on having children taken from her, regardless if she actually wanted to or not) and forced into a dangerous life that will more than likely result in death anyway. Her coming out of that indoctrination; joining shield and reevaluating her past, I thought it would have been interesting to see her deal with all that was taken from her, including the very option to have children (again whether she wanted them or not is moot.)
Could you do an Take on the interracial buddy cop movie trope from the mid 80s, 90s era. There were quite a lot of them. Lethal Weapon, Die Hard 3, Rush Hour, Beverly Hills Cop. 48hrs just to name a few
I feel like we're missing more comparisons with the male assassin to fully understand your critics of the female assassin. A lot of the stuff that happens to the woman, also happens to the man, like the trauma. But I do believe there is a difference between the female and male assassin, like there are more female assassins controlled and revolved around a man. Still, it's hard to take your word for several of the arguments when only discussing the female assassin.
Minor Quibbles: Jessica Chastain doesn't understand the timeline of Kill Bill. It never implies the rape and suffering made the bride stronger. She clearly states at the end of Kill bill 2 that "She's the deadliest woman on earth" in the scene where she finds out she's pregnant and decides to retire. That's before the rape and wedding rehearsal killing. She literally is already the most powerful woman before the violence against her. Her training with Pai Mei is well before she's shot. The inciting incident for the brides rampage is not the rape. The moment she wakes up she's asking "Where's Bill? Where's Bill?" It is the wedding rehearsal murder of her fiance, unborn child, which she doesn't even know is alive during 95% of the movie. Several of the aspects touched on are not unique to female assassins but rather are part of being an assassin. For example, any assassin has to lose their identity like Arya. Their identities are secret by the nature of the job. I'm also amused at the criticism that "the avenging woman text is a problematic rhetoric of female empowerment when it doesn't suppro tpolitical changes within a patriarchal system." Because the next scene is from Kill Bill where both Oren and The Bride's revenge's tear down a patriarchal system, Oren in taking over the Yakuza after the murder of her parents and the Bride killing Bill. I'd also say the idea that an action revenge movie should have a component about political changes strikes me as illogical. Not because political change is wrong but because it's an action movie and that's not what the audience is there for. As for trauma, i would not dismiss the idea that many male assassins characters have a history of trauma, Daniel Craig's James Bond has youth trauma, Jason Bourne is abused as a trainee. As for it female assassins being a "escapist fantasy." Well yes. Most action movies are escapist fantasy's. John Wick is entirely an escapist fantasy.
You guys mentioning Nikita (from the CW show) just made my day. She's so badass, loved the show. And also The Americans, it was a... different show. But totally recommend it. As usual, loved your take on this trope. xD And it made me want to watch Killing Eve, re-watch Mr. & Mrs. Smith and other stuff included here.
I love these characters because they’re competent and seductive and don’t portray extreme female stereotypes of being overly emotional or intellectually inferior. And it’s so fun to see women taking charge and being the badass of the film! Whether they’re the hero or the villain, the female assassin holds so much power and makes stories more compelling and entertaining.
Strength doesn’t have to come from unimaginable pain. Thinking so is very Catholic. “Everyone has to suffer in life! It’s good for you 🙃” I’m a Christian, but I don’t think everyone should suffer unimaginably - and unnecessarily - in order to persevere and thrive.
@@selalewis9189 I am not Christian, but I think persevere literally means to continue in the face of difficulty or something. I don't think everyone have to be strong, it's a personal choice. If life is easy why bother putting yourself in pain (it's meaningless). But sometimes life gets hard, and you choose not to give up.
@@softly128 Sheltered people still suffer. Maybe a person never knows war or hunger or poverty but they will still face heartbreak from failed love, friendship, family, loss, understanding of meaningless of their existence and many more things that will hurt them deeply. I personally don’t know a single person who didn’t experience a lot of pain. It’s just different kind of pain for each one and I don’t think there is a point in comparing them.
Love that you included The Long Kiss Goodnight's Charlie Baltimore. One of my favorite movies that no one else seems to have heard of. It has been a family tradition to watch it at Christmas time for years.
It is not a female-only issue for assassins/spy ... almost every assassin/spy has gone through trauma or against their will to become the deadly assassin, because the audience has to sympathise with them, and justify ( at least to a certain extent ) their intent and that they would never harm innocents, if possible. And in modern culture, male or female both assassins/detective are ridiculously attractive and objectified
The Bride was powerful BEFORE what happened at the wedding. Hence why she was taught the 5 point. She woke up and realized what was going on while she was at the hospital, so she paid him back the only way she knew how.
Always good stuff! Commendable that you didn't spoil Promising Young Woman, but definitely would love to see an entire episode of The Take about the movie and how it specifically overturns the Female Assassin trope.
Wait is kill bill’s “the bride” a good example for disempowerment fueling or making the female assassin source of strength stronger? She was an assassin before the movie’s plot and story line. She was the best assassin in her group actually which made her a target by her peers. I’m not sure she was the best example.
While I understand the number of female assassin characters that go thru ordeals before they become badasses, I disagree with the Take saying the male characters don't go thru ordeals too to be badasses...John Wick doesn't get back into that business until what he cares about is taken, via the dog, his wife, and his car...the Punisher character starts his rampage after his family is murdered, just like Colombiana...so is the take saying just cause these men don't lose power via physical violation that their ordeals don't matter?? That because they lose other things and people that their backstory doesn't matter just cause he's a male? I could understand if every single male hitman was just perfect with no trauma to get him to pursue that line of work but from what I've watched 9/10 times they have some trauma happen too that gets them to become assassins...just because the narrative of their trauma isn't rape related, as is told for many female assassins, doesn't mean they are perfect hitman characters that just kickass and that's it...
living a life in which you are constantly on the look-out, scared of people and what they may do to you, watching a female assassin running through everyone's house like a tomb raider bc she fears nobody, it's everybody that fears her, is empowering
The thing is... feeling unfortunate is what makes you remember the better things in life. Meaning: Abuse sometimes correlate to better understanding of abuse. That’s only if the common symptoms of suffering such things don’t warp their mindset. Ultimately, it’s about how much you channel the misfortune you experienced instead of discarding empathy in pursuit for a stronger heart.
13:00 Arya has to throw away her feminitity and her identity? Yes.. that's the whole point of being a faceless man. The men had to throw there identities away also lmao. And they also throw away their masculinity when they become women for a job. THATS THE WHOLE POINT.
That's one of the problems with the tropes videos, imo. Unlike with the really thorough character analysis they do on specific movies/tv series (which are usually really good) they don't really do their research, when looking for as many examples as possible for these trope videos. Any example, that superficially kinda, sorta fits gets thrown in...like they're trying to make their point by any means necessary, which is sloppy at the very least and reeks of bias/underlying ideology at worst.
@@raraavis7782 yeah. They really pick and choose points and ignore the fact that it's not a trope specific to women half the time. Or the guys have their own similar trope that's a bit different. But still 2 sides of the same coin.
They should have commented Sansa Stark instead. Somehow getting raped and abused made her "stronger", and she became so by throwing away her femininity. Arya wasn't feminine, she hated sowing and was always compared to her sister for acting out instead of repressing her anger. She was interested in sword fighting and shooting the bow and arrow way before the traumatic event of her father's murder happened, and she always wanted to be a knight instead of getting married.
When I think about it, they kinda missed a chance to talk about Arya being an awesome assassin without using her sexuality as a weapon. It embraced her individuality, even though she had to deal with the consequence of being alone, since her friends and family keeps dying.
I hope characters like the Femme Fatale and the Female Assassin can be portrayed without being punished, controlled, etc. Let them be free, fierce, and wild.
@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 what male Assassin isn't portrayed without having a dark past, being controlled from some government agency or something and being tortured. Usually one of these are also in a male assassin's back story.
@@Oversurge_ I guess with Female Assassins they usually are punished sometimes more often or hurt in far worse ways (like with what happens with the Femme Fatale). As stated in the video, a woman having power is something that society hates and fears so much they attack women who have it.
@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 idk a lot of men in those movies have their family murdered. Or there wife or child raped. Or they were tortured etc also. It's pretty intense. It's the same. Also I'm sorry I don't think anyone is "scared" of women being empower. Like sure most men are naturally more dominant than most women. So they don't wanna be challenged on it. But they're not scared.
I love watching these videos. As a male, an artist, and a writer, I find I learn SO MUCH. It's like just always being enrolled in a gender studies class, and the test is every time I sit down to write or draw. I hope that the more I grow I can create stories that subvert and move beyond the tropes/societal assumptions you talk about on your channel, for good. I know this comment isn't specific to this video, I just wanted to thank you. I've been thinking about this for a while.
"Who are you?" "I am Kali. I am Sekhmet. I am the rage in every woman's heart. I am desire, hunger, lust and want. I am everything you men fear. I am justice. I am the reckoning. YOUR reckoning."
You all should do a video about the "Woman Warrior" trope. You all have definitely touched on aspects of this with your "Strong Female Character Trope" video and this one. But I would argue the "woman warrior" is still unique or perhaps specific enough to warrant her own video. Thanks. I enjoy your content.
@@renegadepuppy And they're ALL SO TOXIC and we need to do better and blah blah blah. I dont think theres a single female character in movie or film that would satisfy this channel.
Pleaase please do a video about Killing Eve, their relationship and the reason for That finale. I feel like many of the reasons for that finale resemble what you talked about in this video. Great job as always.
Everything said about Kill Bill is wrong. The Bride was already a badass before Bill put her in a coma and it is not implied at any time that it was the other way around. Furthermore, it is far from being a rape-revenge fantasy. Her revenge was against Bill and the others for taking her child and her chance to have a normal life. She underwent a hard training, became a successful badass assassin, her enemies tried to kill her and she got her revenge, nothing so different from many other great stories with a male protagonist, except for the detail that, in this case, the main character was a woman.
Off the back of your himbo video, I'd love a video on the depictions of different types of masculinity on screen, positive and negative - as these frequently feed into how female characters are treated and portrayed. For instance, Ripley may have been written as male, but would casting a man have led to a vastly different character on screen from the one delivered by Sigourney Weaver
Yeah, I'd also like to hear whether masculinity and femininity balance each other like yin and yang or if there are some fundamental differences and need for changes of how these two are viewed. For example, they keep highlighting the importance of femininity, like compassion and vulnerability, to make a complex and real character. But is it the same that masculinity is needed to make a character complete?
I wonder if it’s just me or Is it feels like if you saw one The Take’s video you have seen them all! They basically have one thought and they keep making the same video with different titles! Use to love this channel! Their Games of Thrones videos were great!
I feel the same. I mostly skip the 'tropes' videos by now...they feel repetitive and also kinda...reprimanding. Not sure, if that's the right word. Pedantic, maybe? (Not a native speaker) What I mean is, they take all the fun out of perfectly good movies, because: 'oh look, there's a trope somewhere in there'. It's like being lectured about how unhealthy your favorite food is...technically true, but who wants to listen to it all the time? I like their character analysis videos much, much better, because they always make me feel, like I know/understand the character much better, afterwards.
I am not a native speaker either so apologies in advance! I get that there are some sexist undertone in movies and for years women characters portrait through male gaze,...but maybe 3-4 videos about that topic is enough! I was so disappointed by the gone girl video! There are so many interesting theme going on in that movie and they gone for the same predictable narrative! Same with Queen’s Gambit. They should change the channel’s name from "the take" to "A take". 😁I know creating content is hard so I hope this doesn’t comes off as mean or discouraging! But they use to explore so many interesting theme! It’s just a shame that I can predict the videos just by reading the title!
15:45 "They have their problems too" Is a gross oversimplification of what you are talking about. Male assassins in movies also go through some trauma in their life to make them so good at what they do. You can't just dismiss that by saying they have problems too as if it's less than the women's. Most male assassing live alone, have no family and generally are denied any type of "normal" life
I feel like a lot people like to call this trope “sexist” or like “objectifying women” but logically it makes to most sense. Like you’re an intelligence organisation or a military espionage or whatever you wanna call it. Like everyone is gonna suspect a stereotypical tough guy/girl like if the person going in to spy or assassinate is obviously tough or looks intimidating. That’s gonna give you away instantly I feel like. So if you send in someone traditionally attractive but like friendly and likeable suspicion is gonna be a lot lower. Like especially if it’s an attractive woman more so than a guy. Because like when someone is attractive you’re more drawn to the look and charm of that person and your guard is more easily lowered. And like while this may seem incredibly convoluted and unrealistic there have actually been women in history who work wise were average like no official military or combat experience who still used their attractiveness and skills to take out some really fucked up people. Like we all remember that article that went round a few years ago of an old woman being reported dead. And it was found out that she wasn’t in the military at all but would frequently seduce nazis at a local bar and kill them. So it still applies to real life scenarios. I know now a lot of women find this empowering but there are still people out there who wrongfully view the trope as sexist. Because yes they are sexualised but they use it to their advantage to infiltrate and do what needs to be done
we need The Take to be on Letterboxd too! please make lists of all movies mentioned for each of your video essays. absolutely love the work of this channel!!!!
Arya never embraced the feminine aspects of life, she only did as her father made her. But once they got to Kings Landing, she starts wearing pants and learning how to sword fight. Arya never wanted a traditional family life for herself.
while i appreciate the sentiment i think jessica chastain is wrong about kill bill because the bride was already an assassin before the murder attempt so the film is not suggesting she is stronger because of her suffering
would looove a list of the movies that you use clips of in your videos! every time I watch your videos, they're so well done, I immediately want to watch and research the movies you mention and it's a lil hard to catch every single title in bottom left corner
I don’t know that I’d agree with the implication John Wick wasn’t dealing with trauma and emotional baggage. It might not be to the extent of The Bride, but he’s definitely going through some stuff.
Well... 99% of assassins' origin stories in movies are due to some sort of abuse they endured, doesn't matter whether they are male or female! Latest one I think of is john wick! Where a group of russian gangsters break into his house beat him up and kill his dog! So it's NOT just female assassins that are based on vengence or abuse or losing their identity!
I hate how many in the trope are second fiddle to a man, usually their husband/boyfriend or father. Then they usually only kill, become a spy or assassin because they’re protecting their husband/boyfriend, children or siblings. Or because their partner, children or family have been murdered. Or to get revenge because they’re raped or can’t have children. Hardly ever for themselves or because they want to or because they enjoy it and are good at it.
@@juliarandomidiot9834 I thought it was your average female spy movie: a woman uses her looks to seduce bad men then use her powers of espionage to kill them. But it went from a ballet dancer committing murder then working for the secret police because of her uncle, then she witnesses a murder she wasn’t suppose to and is given the choice of being a Red Sparrow or being executed. And the school isn’t exactly a spy school. They don’t teach her to use a gun or pick a lock or even defend herself. They make her use her body and her body ONLY and...it was just so much going on and it made no sense
There's a Laura Mulvey essay in _Riddles of the Sphinx_ I think about fetishism from a Freudian perspective. The idea is basically that men want to see women with objects of phallic power like guns, whips and knives because they suffer from castration anxiety: the woman without a penis freaks them out.
I love female assassins! I even love video game assassins too, like Nina Williams from Tekken. What about doing a video on female anti-heroines? It's a trope that rarely fits female characters in the media (a female character that kills and does underhanded, dastardly deeds to achieve her goals but is also beloved by the audience). Villanelle comes close, but she's more of a villain than an anti-heroine. Where's the female versions of Walter White or Tony Soprano? If a female character is deemed "too evil" then she's usually hated and despised.
Great collection of films, but I gotta say that Brian DePalma’s catalogue also has a great array of femme fatales and female assassins. Who can pick a favorite?
Do the Girl spy troupe like Charlie's Angels, Totally Spies, Powerpuff Girls. How they are empowering and regressive (limited vision of female beauty beyond three different hair colors)
Yep, I agree with this stance! "Charlie's Spies" seemed to popularise the Female Power Trio, and how one is conventionally stunning (The Beauty), another's tough and athletic (The Brawn), and the third is logical and typically the voice of reason (The Brains). Bonus points if they're respectively Blonde, Redheaded or Brunette.
@@trinaq Yeah so what about the male Duo of one being strong and dumb and the other being Smart and weak. Y'all acting like these things are only tropes for females.
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@The Take please could you do a Take on Lauren Faust's team dynamic theories that she used for a lot of her shows. Best material I know of is from MLP. Its five man band for girl's shows.
I challenge the take to make a video without mentioning the topic of gender.
If you have a Scribd account, I think free Mubi subscription is one of their perks
I want to see Susan and Debra's take on stories about autism.
Atomic Blonde has the most realistic fight scenes with a woman battling against men. No high heels, no exaggerated flying kicks, she actually takes damage and even the henchmen don't go down easily or get defeated by a 120 pound woman. To top it off, they actually get tired and sluggish when beating up each other just like you would in real life so there's no unlimited or exaggerated stamina.
I really liked that film. The Daredevil tv show went for a similar kind of grounded realism in its action scenes.
@@xensonar9652 You should watch this movie called, "The Raid". It's an Indonesian action film and I think it's awesome. Although it may not be all that realistic, you can still tell that there's some thought and effort that was put into the fight scenes. The story is captivating too.
@@awolf2393 Yeah, seen it. Great action film.
To be honest, I don't mind crazy or unbelievable combat, even cheesy 80s action films, I just also enjoy when films try something different. Depends what I'm in the mood for.
Makes since. It was made by the same director who did the John wick films.
the fight scenes were the only good part of that movie
Honestly, Villanelle from Killing Eve is a breath of fresh air. She isn’t too serious, she doesn’t dress to be sexy, she’s sometimes childish, she hardly wears the stereotypical black attire instead going for more colourful ones and she actually has a sense of humour.
honestly im da best
Yep, I absolutely concur! 🙌🏾 I adore how they subvert your expectations with Villanelle, without sexualising her simply because she's a woman in a typically male dominated field, and offers her own quirks to the Trope. Jodie Comer plays her so brilliantly! ❣️😻
That's probably why almost no one has watched that movie.
That's because it's a TV show you can build depth over multiple hours. Can't build as much depth in a film
Also the only adaption that is much better then the book series on every level.
The irony is that assassins should follow the grey man idea of being utterally forgettable in public. People tend to remember hot bombshells: Not good for business.
Same with hot male stud assassin's. Movie magic I guess.
Hiding in plain sight is absolutely a thing.
Lots of federal agents are devastatingly good looking. Serial killers too.
Good point!
@@Oversurge_ how do you know that?
Yeah, well, that's why it's a movie and not real life
Yes!!! I hate it when they make the female assassin wear heels, like you literally can't fight or do anything in them?????
They can cuz they are badass not all of them wear heels
I think it's one of those things where she still has her traditional feminity with her, like the final battle in Anastasia, when she took down Rasputin with her shor.
@@genevieveowusu885 Anastasia’s situation is different though. She didn’t have time to prepare but I get what you mean.
Yeah! Heels are for running from dinosaurs not murdering people! Geez Hollywood😂
I know, heels LOOK fashionable, but they're not exactly the most practical choice of footwear. "Jurassic World" got a lot of flack for having its female lead flee from dinosaurs, whilst donning some impressively high stilettos, of all things! 😂🤣
She's "Not Like the Other Girls". She's a badass assassin, who can kill people in a thousand different ways, without so much as breaking a nail.
Gosh, I hate that not like other girls' trope.
She also seems like a version of the tough girl.
Naturally, a master assassin won't be like other girls. What's the problem
@@dukeofdenver The problem is the “not like other girls” trope is often used to put down women who have more so-called feminine characteristics, which in this context are seen as “weak.”
One aspect of the Trope I've always questioned is that male fighters typically get easily covered in cuts and scrapes, while females must remain immaculately flawless at all times. 🙄
That's probably because those assassins have high Chi levels. That's what we all learned from Mulan 2020, right?
Like... Did you not watch kill Bill or atomic blonde?
Dont forget at the end of the fight, she'll turn around to reveal slightly messy/frizzy hair and 1 (one) single artful smudge of dirt, to show that she 'did' fight without making her irrevocably ugly
Mad Max’s Furiosa gets MESSED up by the end. The Bride in Kill Bill gets roughed up a ton as well. If I remember correctly as does Salt, in Salt. It’s there. You’re probably not watching the good stuff lol
Also, the power and weight disparity would make it very hard for most women to kick ass... It happened to me that I got pushed back a step and when I returned the push, she was flying back!
At times being 2x as heavy does pay off...
You should do a Russian villain trope.
Oh yeah, hello from Russia 🇷🇺
Like the whole political competition and space race with the USSR and how it influenced pop culture
Yeah, even the way they film Russia as cold and dark. Coming from someone who is not even American, these movies influence the way we see Russians in my country too.
Почему нас всегда показывают как будто мы все до сих пор живем бандитскими 90-ыми?
@@jennywhat6108 потому что не знают как мы на самом деле живём и считают старые стереотипы приемлемыми.
@@ВикторияБурлова-н3ь Здравствуйте
The bride/Black Mamba was already a badass female assassin before all that happened on Kill Bill, she wanting to retire from being a badass assassin was what triggered the whole movie plot...
You’re right. She was an assassin before Bill tried to kill her and take her child away. Granted I don’t remember her murdering anyone before “the wedding” but it is implied that she was one of the best, if not the best assassin in the group. So, I felt the argument went a little stale regarding her..
Also the Bride ends up reuniting with her child at the end and essentially being rewarded with a normal “nice” life after killing a lot of people and doing a lot of (what can be seen as) bad things which I think is a big step up from earlier female villains in America who usually die or get punished for seeking revenge/vigilante justice.
FUCK YES
I think they lied on the movie just to continue their narrative of evil men raping women as the catalyst for their narrative
@@kingozone my dude.. you are kinda obsessed with saying the take has an anti male agenda huh?
To me, the female assassin plays on our societies harmful perceptions on women. If a woman is beautiful, it is perceived as a sex symbol who is often brainless and in need of a strong man to protect her. If a woman in strong or independent, she is perceived as undesirable and a man hater who you don't want to cross.
The Female Assassin Trope combines the two tropes and takes the best from each to make the sex symbol strong and independent, making her the ultimate nightmare for men in power.
The society I live in doesn't consider women like that. the undesirable strong independent women are not undesirable because they are strong it's because they think strong means being cold and forceful.
@@dsmyify Well, your country's norms are a lot better than that of the U.S.A.
now THAT'S insightful
tell that to 13:23 ... as if The Bride wasn't yet powerful enough to do what she did BEFORE she was put in a coma? as if she didn't need _motivation_ to do what she did? revenge doesn't happen without a devastating inciting incident, not b/c the character isn't "powerful" enough already, but because they aren't *motivated* before the story starts!
maybe *you* should've written that article... is what I'm saying. love the comment!
I hated the movie "Colombian" the character lacked any personality and was only a sexual object and as a Latina it is horrible AH and forgot the TERRIBLE representation of Latin America, THEY LOOK LIKE ITALIAN NOT COLOMBIAN
@@darkstorm0433 I really dislike the fact that the internet is so US-centric that US norms dominate discussions of 'what society considers...'. It would be nice to have that reframed as 'US commercial representation of society considerers...'. I know that's somewhat pedantic but it would help offset the normalisation of what are in actuality pretty niche points of view.
Okay but let’s talk about how 90% of these women don’t tie up their hair while fighting- like what??
That's so true, it also happens in every action movie. The magical hair is too strong to take any damage.
One of my top pet peeves! I pull back my hair to do ANYTHING.
So I assume the three of you appreciate that Harley Quinn/Birds of Prey movie then?
@@christopherb501 Birds of prey was amazing
Which Shampoo are Loki and Black Widow using? Yes exactly. As if Hair don´t get messy.. when you move. What a stupid illusion !
Black Widow deserved better. That’s all I really want to say.
I agree, I was SO broken up over Natasha's death. ☠️😭 I understand Tony having a funeral, but why couldn't Natasha have had a similar emotional send off? 💔
It just bothers me when I watch youtube clips of her and the gross stuff people say in the comments
@@bef9612 what thinkg?
That scene in Endgame is my least favorite thing about the MCU. Would have been so easy to give Hawkeye his soldier send off and instead we lose the one woman from the original six.
Isn't there a black widow movie in the work or am I mistaken?
Can you do one for the Grizzled Veteran Detective trope?
He's old. He's cranky. He drinks. He smokes. He's quiet. He shoots first and asks questions later. He has 2 weeks before retirement.
And there was that one woman he couldn't save, and he sees her face everywhere.
"I'm getting too old for this shit."
He's just Hard boiled.
And he is divorced.
And occasionally looks at an unknown picture in his wallet. A dead child, hence the divorce...
Natasha´s movie should had been after the first Avengers movie or you know, anywhere BEFORE Endgame, to know what is her past she is being reformed from (therefore apreciate her develoment) from, with the movie just coming out after her death, it just feels like a confort price and doesn't feel like she´s got develoment and her character as an assasin feels like something shown and not told .MCU failed all her potential and i don't think they can amend that.
Edit: i hate women figthing in heels, using the heels as a weapon could work but actual figthing would be too freaking unconfortable and impractical
I always thought her death scene in Endgame would have been so much more emotional if we had gotten the Black Widow movie before, so that we would have had more character development for her. But my theory is that they couldn't have shown it before Endgame because there is gonna be something in it that makes it so that for some reason she is not actually dead and that would have ruined the death scene.
So sorry about the weirdly structured sentence.
They just had to make sure Captain Marvel had hers first, no second fiddles
one of women’s biggest natural advantages in fights is our lower center of gravity making us harder to knock over, so the concept of fighting in heels and completely destabilizing yourself is so fuckin dumb lol
THANK YOU! I've waited years for a Black Widow-movie! Honestly, I think the only reason why Natasha even gets her movie, is because of the sucess of "Wonder Woman". Because apperently, the people who work for Disney and/or Marvel, are so stupid, that the didn't thought, that a female-lead superhero-move would work.
(Also, this has nothing to do with that, but am I the only one who is pissed, when I see a toy-set of the Avengers without Natasha or a set of the new "Star Wars"-characters without Rey, EVEN THOUGH SHE'S THE MAIN CHARACTER??)
Exactly!!
I don’t mind the trope of the sexy lady assassin, but I would love to see more female assassins who are actually plain-looking and use that plainness to their advantage. After all, attractive women tend to stand out and draw attention to themselves, whereas women who are considered plain or undesirable are better able to fly under the radar. That can be kind of empowering, too.
That's why The Ghost in Killing Eve is a memorable character, even if she does not have a lot of screentime
for us average people
When you have to seduce and kill an elite man I think a gorgeous lady will be able to get the job done easier.
The “female assassin” is also unrealistically thin. A real life woman that tough would look more like Gina Carano or Ronda Rousey
Yup! She should have been wonder woman. But I don't think women would have been able to relate to her + male audience.
And Gina Carano was the protagonist of Haywire, the spy triller directed by Steven Sodenbergh that wasn't mentioned on this video.
bruce lee was never bulky. i dont think it's a must. but i also don't discard it.
@@danielavalderrama5932 True, he wasn’t bulky, but he was incredibly strong for his size, stronger than most men twice his size.
So true!!
Yeap, unrealistically attractive and feat females that make the whole room turn when they enter, is the best way to go incognito on a secret mission.
A muscular ass female who looks like she came to kick ass isn't really incognito either
The best assasin women to me are ordinary middle aged or old ladies. Invisible women.
Lol you all are average joeys. Jealous of beautiful women.
@@adamovalkwiak4127 Envious you mean? Jealousy is more related to relationships and often needs at least 3 people. Interesting supposition though. Hmmm, I wonder how primitive are people who actually are envious of something? Never was able to rationalize and understand this. I think there must be some psychological issue with people who are able to actually feel irrational feelings such as this one. What does it even mean? Some stranger is better in something so I should jump from a bridge? This is not just stupid but a very unhealthy irrational way of thinking 🤔
Anyways my point was that, if one stands out easily in a crowd and many people remark and constantly pay attention to such a person, he/she would be ill suited for a job that requires secrecy and anonymity.
@@m1k4t0r15 I said what I said. You can lie and believe your own lies but not me. Peace ✌🏻
You should look into stereotypes about Eastern Europeans/Slavs in Hollywood. There is a lot of material.
I'm hoping for Romani or Indigenous coverage personally, but true; that's something that should definitely be discussed in earnest.
Can you continue your avatar series? Love all the tropes, but that series was really interesting!!
I think they were doing that as a Patreon incentive but I'm with you I loved those videos and it'd be great if they did more
And The Wire, and Mad Men, etc.
Yes please
I would love them to continue with air and earth personality.
I know right
At this point, everything is a trope
And there's nothing wrong with that.
@@kimifw58 yeah
@@kimifw58 it just depends on how a trope is used
I’m confused about the rape in Kill Bill. It’s not a big part of the film. Beatrix wasn’t traumatized by it and she killed the rapist and the nurse immediately. That scene was only 10 mins and never came back up again and didn’t fuel anything in her for her mission. Her focus was finding Bill and then getting her daughter back. Plus, Beatrix had no weapons and couldn’t walk since she spent 4 years in a coma. So to she her in action for that scene showed how deadly and resourceful she can be with almost nothing.
I agree however her quest for vengeance and her journey to get it starts after the rape and at time when sexual assault is most prevalent in our consciousness I could see how everyone could look at it as the catalyst even though she already had her reasons for revenge
since it didnt make any difference, why include rape at all? just to be more dramatic???? horrible
@@Claire18Hi rape happens, it shouldn't be off limits in story telling.
@@blackdragon6 it this specific movie, it adding nothing but extra pain when it wasn't needed and gave a bad example. Its as the video said, that the director added it to show is got stronger from that pain when this is so so stupid and a bad example
Yeah, She was Fueled cause she was Left for Dead.
killing Eve had me effed up the whole show. It showed equally strong women with two distinct images and you just had to love them both.
Honestly, Villanelle from Killing Eve is the exact opposite of a stereotypical female assassin and that’s why I stan!
A Long Kiss Goodnight is such an underrated movie.
Right? I just put it on my rewatch list
YES!
Samuel L. Jackson and Geena Davis were excellent in that movie.
That's one of those movies if you ask 10 people have they seen it, MAYBE one person has heard of it even though those huge stars are in it.
I owned that DVD a long time ago and I was so mad when I went to watch it discovered that it had as they say, "grew feet" and disappeared.😐
I did not know about that movie, but it’s on my list after watching this video.
@@mhawang8204 It's a fun watch
@@greatgownsbeautifulgowns I _have_ seen it, but I'm sorry to say it's not one that's closely stuck with me.
I’m not hating on thin women; I’m a thin woman, but I find it interesting that all these experts at hand to hand combat weigh like 120 lbs soaking wet. I wonder if an expert at fight physics could tell us if the fight choreography is realistically taking such weight and simple strength differences between combatants into consideration.
It depends on your training, speed and ferocity are your friends when going up against people, especially those bigger than you
Men and women have to be real disciplined in that or they die in 1 minute
I'm 135 lb and I'm a guy lol.
Sometimes it can be done but it takes a bit out of you. When I took a jiujitsu, sometimes I had exams with people that were bigger than me. I remember vividly being able to kinda carry and throw a 6’1 230 man when I was 5’5 160. Obviously, I had more weight than those actresses but it’s all about the technique. I must say, that dude could pick me up like I weighted nothing and I had to throw him immediately cuz I couldn’t carry him for a long period of time. 🤣
You can if you use the right techniques. Speed and leverage are your best friends when fighting a bigger, heavier, stronger opponent.
When you talked about men not coming from trauma to be assassins you show a few clips from John wick, he goes through heavy trauma before he attacks anyone
There isn't a single movie where the main character is an assassin and hasn't gone through trauma. So idk why it's a female issue
It’s trauma creating the assassin’s motivation. They never said male assassins get teatime and teddy bears, just that most become assassins sans a revenge motive. John Wick was such an assassin already he was the assassin hired to kill assassins.
Also, this smacks of ‘men have pain too’ which is a bizarre way to take this. Focus.
@@namedrop721 excuse me? John wick was an orphan forced to become an assissin against his will as a child. Forced into combat training, getting beaten etc from a young age. And had to come back out of vengeance for the people who killed the gift his dead wife gave him. So yeah... Tragic from the start.
Yep.. it's not a female-only issue for assassins... almost every assassin has gone through trauma or against their will to become the deadly assassin, because the audience has to sympathise with them, and justify ( at least to a certain extent ) their intent and that they would never harm innocents, if possible. And in modern culture, male or female both assassins/detective are objectified
Just like Talon from DC Comics
You guys should do like a "Bad/Rebel Teenager Trope" and add iconic characters such as Haley Dunphy (Modern family),Poppy Moore (wild child),Evie Zamora (thirteen),Gia Mahan (full house)...etc
There was another La Femme Nikita TV show in the 90's. I loved it!
Natasha's first scene in Avengers (2012) is the best introduction scene ever
her spinny kick is epic!
edit: or do you mean for other reasons? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@GabsTheGamerYTno, I don't mean it for other reasons.
@@literaIIyshy ok, thanks for the clarification :)
Ok but I genuinely just love women with guns.
You're telling me keanue Reeves isn't an object of desire? The Take has lost all credibility.
LMAO THIS SENDS
EXACTLY! I don't know anyone who knows of Keanu Reeves and doesn't have a crush on him. Even straight guys would make an exception
I know right.
Daniel Craig is fugly too.
@@dsmyify a lot of women love him there's a reason why he's James Bond. Also they love his body... So. Might be just your personal preference
THANK YOU for mentioning The Long Kiss Goodnight! My favorite of these and also a horribly overlooked movie. Geena Davis could have been a major action star.
criminally underrated Movie and Actress for sure
I always look forward to these videos. I never thought I'd be into cinema and I'm even thinking of picking it up to study at uni. Also it's really cool that two women created the take, I feel inspired by them.
I’m surprised they didn’t talk about how toxic the idea of infertility is in badass women stories. Like, they could have given MCU black widow ANY OTHER sad backstory, like remorse for being on the wrong side and now she wants to atone or betrayal in a time of need and she has trust issues or (idk I’m just spitballing here) maintaining relationships while also being a master manipulator because of her training and she sometimes she can’t distinguish between real feelings and a front.
But they went with infertility. Smdh there’s more to being a ffffeeeeeemale than the ability to give birth. Ask any transgender woman.
I will give credit where it’s due: I’ve also been critical of “pretty” assassins for a while. The best assassins are the ones that can blend into a crowd. Not turn heads on the street. The men who produce woman assassin movies don’t understand that simple concept.
I thought Black Widow would be guilty for the people she killed
You got any hopes for her (posthumous...) movie making up the difference?
@@christopherb501 hard to say. I’m still in denial that she’s permadead.
If I had to guess, a thin ray of hope would be to show that she had a good family life BEFORE the brainwashing, and she held that memory afterward. Maybe she really wants that for herself someday.
It really depends on the execution.
I would have liked her backstory in the mcu a little more if they focused on the fact that she was sterilised while indoctrinated. At no point did she have a choice in anything. If she didnt go through with the training; she would have been killed. If she does, she will be sterilised (the focus being she had her choice on having children taken from her, regardless if she actually wanted to or not) and forced into a dangerous life that will more than likely result in death anyway.
Her coming out of that indoctrination; joining shield and reevaluating her past, I thought it would have been interesting to see her deal with all that was taken from her, including the very option to have children (again whether she wanted them or not is moot.)
@@ahsokatano6361 Excellently put
Could you do an Take on the interracial buddy cop movie trope from the mid 80s, 90s era. There were quite a lot of them. Lethal Weapon, Die Hard 3, Rush Hour, Beverly Hills Cop. 48hrs just to name a few
I feel like we're missing more comparisons with the male assassin to fully understand your critics of the female assassin. A lot of the stuff that happens to the woman, also happens to the man, like the trauma. But I do believe there is a difference between the female and male assassin, like there are more female assassins controlled and revolved around a man. Still, it's hard to take your word for several of the arguments when only discussing the female assassin.
The Take has a habit of having an opinion and would do anything to validate it and that includes ignoring other factors like the Becky video
Love to see more Villanelle content. Hoping for a take on Killing Eve.
Yes, me too! The Take, please do a Killing Eve analysis, of both the main characters!
Minor Quibbles:
Jessica Chastain doesn't understand the timeline of Kill Bill. It never implies the rape and suffering made the bride stronger. She clearly states at the end of Kill bill 2 that "She's the deadliest woman on earth" in the scene where she finds out she's pregnant and decides to retire. That's before the rape and wedding rehearsal killing. She literally is already the most powerful woman before the violence against her. Her training with Pai Mei is well before she's shot.
The inciting incident for the brides rampage is not the rape. The moment she wakes up she's asking "Where's Bill? Where's Bill?" It is the wedding rehearsal murder of her fiance, unborn child, which she doesn't even know is alive during 95% of the movie.
Several of the aspects touched on are not unique to female assassins but rather are part of being an assassin. For example, any assassin has to lose their identity like Arya. Their identities are secret by the nature of the job.
I'm also amused at the criticism that "the avenging woman text is a problematic rhetoric of female empowerment when it doesn't suppro tpolitical changes within a patriarchal system." Because the next scene is from Kill Bill where both Oren and The Bride's revenge's tear down a patriarchal system, Oren in taking over the Yakuza after the murder of her parents and the Bride killing Bill. I'd also say the idea that an action revenge movie should have a component about political changes strikes me as illogical. Not because political change is wrong but because it's an action movie and that's not what the audience is there for.
As for trauma, i would not dismiss the idea that many male assassins characters have a history of trauma, Daniel Craig's James Bond has youth trauma, Jason Bourne is abused as a trainee.
As for it female assassins being a "escapist fantasy." Well yes. Most action movies are escapist fantasy's. John Wick is entirely an escapist fantasy.
I'm pretty sure Jessica was talking about game of thrones and not kill bill in that tweet.
You guys mentioning Nikita (from the CW show) just made my day. She's so badass, loved the show.
And also The Americans, it was a... different show. But totally recommend it.
As usual, loved your take on this trope. xD And it made me want to watch Killing Eve, re-watch Mr. & Mrs. Smith and other stuff included here.
I love these characters because they’re competent and seductive and don’t portray extreme female stereotypes of being overly emotional or intellectually inferior. And it’s so fun to see women taking charge and being the badass of the film! Whether they’re the hero or the villain, the female assassin holds so much power and makes stories more compelling and entertaining.
I don't think there are any strong people without an unbelievable amount of past pain.
Do people without unbelievable amount of past pain even exist?
Strength doesn’t have to come from unimaginable pain. Thinking so is very Catholic. “Everyone has to suffer in life! It’s good for you 🙃” I’m a Christian, but I don’t think everyone should suffer unimaginably - and unnecessarily - in order to persevere and thrive.
@@KaterynaM_UA Sheltered people may be
@@selalewis9189 I am not Christian, but I think persevere literally means to continue in the face of difficulty or something. I don't think everyone have to be strong, it's a personal choice. If life is easy why bother putting yourself in pain (it's meaningless). But sometimes life gets hard, and you choose not to give up.
@@softly128 Sheltered people still suffer. Maybe a person never knows war or hunger or poverty but they will still face heartbreak from failed love, friendship, family, loss, understanding of meaningless of their existence and many more things that will hurt them deeply. I personally don’t know a single person who didn’t experience a lot of pain. It’s just different kind of pain for each one and I don’t think there is a point in comparing them.
i love these video essays, they're so intelligent and awesome.
Love that you included The Long Kiss Goodnight's Charlie Baltimore. One of my favorite movies that no one else seems to have heard of. It has been a family tradition to watch it at Christmas time for years.
"Words were another sword for the man who wielded them well."
Brent Weeks, The Way of Shadows
Thanks for yet another Terrific quote which links perfectly to the video! 📹🥰
It is not a female-only issue for assassins/spy ... almost every assassin/spy has gone through trauma or against their will to become the deadly assassin, because the audience has to sympathise with them, and justify ( at least to a certain extent ) their intent and that they would never harm innocents, if possible. And in modern culture, male or female both assassins/detective are ridiculously attractive and objectified
Thank you! Was looking for this comment. Almost all the male assassins they showed had traumatic pasts (often with loved ones/families being killed).
True.
Please love-hate relationship explained
Thank you. Yes I would love that actually.
The Bride was powerful BEFORE what happened at the wedding. Hence why she was taught the 5 point. She woke up and realized what was going on while she was at the hospital, so she paid him back the only way she knew how.
Always good stuff! Commendable that you didn't spoil Promising Young Woman, but definitely would love to see an entire episode of The Take about the movie and how it specifically overturns the Female Assassin trope.
I think you missed one who doesn't quite fit exactly into the trope: Helena from Orphan Black.
Helena was abused though
@@TheSupinesmokey and the point? So are a lot of assassin characters including several listed in this video.
I love Mr. and Mrs. Smith. It's so much fun to watch.
Just after the bit where Villanelle weaponises beauty-products, there is an advert for hair nourishing serum! (8:59)
Wait is kill bill’s “the bride” a good example for disempowerment fueling or making the female assassin source of strength stronger? She was an assassin before the movie’s plot and story line. She was the best assassin in her group actually which made her a target by her peers. I’m not sure she was the best example.
While I understand the number of female assassin characters that go thru ordeals before they become badasses, I disagree with the Take saying the male characters don't go thru ordeals too to be badasses...John Wick doesn't get back into that business until what he cares about is taken, via the dog, his wife, and his car...the Punisher character starts his rampage after his family is murdered, just like Colombiana...so is the take saying just cause these men don't lose power via physical violation that their ordeals don't matter?? That because they lose other things and people that their backstory doesn't matter just cause he's a male? I could understand if every single male hitman was just perfect with no trauma to get him to pursue that line of work but from what I've watched 9/10 times they have some trauma happen too that gets them to become assassins...just because the narrative of their trauma isn't rape related, as is told for many female assassins, doesn't mean they are perfect hitman characters that just kickass and that's it...
I'm not a fan of a narrative like that because we're all grey
living a life in which you are constantly on the look-out, scared of people and what they may do to you, watching a female assassin running through everyone's house like a tomb raider bc she fears nobody, it's everybody that fears her, is empowering
I am obssessed with female assassin trope! I'd love to watch the list of all the movies here!!!
The Takes last video on psychopaths convinced me to watch killing eve, holy fuck such an amazing show. I love Phoebe Waller-Bridges writing so much
Thank you for the variety in films you've discussed! I can't wait to explore a lot of these historical and foreign films I'm just learning about now.
The thing is... feeling unfortunate is what makes you remember the better things in life.
Meaning: Abuse sometimes correlate to better understanding of abuse. That’s only if the common symptoms of suffering such things don’t warp their mindset. Ultimately, it’s about how much you channel the misfortune you experienced instead of discarding empathy in pursuit for a stronger heart.
13:00 Arya has to throw away her feminitity and her identity? Yes.. that's the whole point of being a faceless man. The men had to throw there identities away also lmao. And they also throw away their masculinity when they become women for a job. THATS THE WHOLE POINT.
I agree. That point was reaching.
That's one of the problems with the tropes videos, imo.
Unlike with the really thorough character analysis they do on specific movies/tv series (which are usually really good) they don't really do their research, when looking for as many examples as possible for these trope videos.
Any example, that superficially kinda, sorta fits gets thrown in...like they're trying to make their point by any means necessary, which is sloppy at the very least and reeks of bias/underlying ideology at worst.
@@raraavis7782 yeah. They really pick and choose points and ignore the fact that it's not a trope specific to women half the time. Or the guys have their own similar trope that's a bit different. But still 2 sides of the same coin.
They should have commented Sansa Stark instead. Somehow getting raped and abused made her "stronger", and she became so by throwing away her femininity. Arya wasn't feminine, she hated sowing and was always compared to her sister for acting out instead of repressing her anger. She was interested in sword fighting and shooting the bow and arrow way before the traumatic event of her father's murder happened, and she always wanted to be a knight instead of getting married.
When I think about it, they kinda missed a chance to talk about Arya being an awesome assassin without using her sexuality as a weapon. It embraced her individuality, even though she had to deal with the consequence of being alone, since her friends and family keeps dying.
I hope characters like the Femme Fatale and the Female Assassin can be portrayed without being punished, controlled, etc. Let them be free, fierce, and wild.
Yeah but... Aren't the male ones also? 🤔
@@Oversurge_ Huh?
@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 what male Assassin isn't portrayed without having a dark past, being controlled from some government agency or something and being tortured. Usually one of these are also in a male assassin's back story.
@@Oversurge_ I guess with Female Assassins they usually are punished sometimes more often or hurt in far worse ways (like with what happens with the Femme Fatale). As stated in the video, a woman having power is something that society hates and fears so much they attack women who have it.
@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 idk a lot of men in those movies have their family murdered. Or there wife or child raped. Or they were tortured etc also. It's pretty intense. It's the same. Also I'm sorry I don't think anyone is "scared" of women being empower. Like sure most men are naturally more dominant than most women. So they don't wanna be challenged on it. But they're not scared.
um how dare you imply John Wick is not an object of desire
Honestly 🙄
I love watching these videos. As a male, an artist, and a writer, I find I learn SO MUCH. It's like just always being enrolled in a gender studies class, and the test is every time I sit down to write or draw. I hope that the more I grow I can create stories that subvert and move beyond the tropes/societal assumptions you talk about on your channel, for good.
I know this comment isn't specific to this video, I just wanted to thank you. I've been thinking about this for a while.
That's wonderful and I hope the world gets to see the beautiful stories you will create
I'm not sure if subverting tropes should be your focus. Most of the time you're just gonna step in another trope.
"Who are you?"
"I am Kali. I am Sekhmet. I am the rage in every woman's heart. I am desire, hunger, lust and want. I am everything you men fear. I am justice. I am the reckoning. YOUR reckoning."
She didn't play an assassin but Gina Carano's character in Haywire was an excellent modern example of a strong female spy
Yes!!
Can we just get a killing eve breakdown please 😫 😩
What’s there to breakdown?
Loving a really bad and dangerous person 😃
I think it's unrealistic to be an assassin AND a present parent in general. Male or female.
Unless they’re raising their children to be assassins like them.
You all should do a video about the "Woman Warrior" trope. You all have definitely touched on aspects of this with your "Strong Female Character Trope" video and this one. But I would argue the "woman warrior" is still unique or perhaps specific enough to warrant her own video. Thanks. I enjoy your content.
Everything’s a trope: The Take
For real lmao
@@renegadepuppy And they're ALL SO TOXIC and we need to do better and blah blah blah. I dont think theres a single female character in movie or film that would satisfy this channel.
I would love if you can do video of killing eve or vilanelle's character, that show is amazing!
Pleaase please do a video about Killing Eve, their relationship and the reason for That finale. I feel like many of the reasons for that finale resemble what you talked about in this video. Great job as always.
Everything said about Kill Bill is wrong. The Bride was already a badass before Bill put her in a coma and it is not implied at any time that it was the other way around. Furthermore, it is far from being a rape-revenge fantasy. Her revenge was against Bill and the others for taking her child and her chance to have a normal life. She underwent a hard training, became a successful badass assassin, her enemies tried to kill her and she got her revenge, nothing so different from many other great stories with a male protagonist, except for the detail that, in this case, the main character was a woman.
Off the back of your himbo video, I'd love a video on the depictions of different types of masculinity on screen, positive and negative - as these frequently feed into how female characters are treated and portrayed. For instance, Ripley may have been written as male, but would casting a man have led to a vastly different character on screen from the one delivered by Sigourney Weaver
Yeah, I'd also like to hear whether masculinity and femininity balance each other like yin and yang or if there are some fundamental differences and need for changes of how these two are viewed. For example, they keep highlighting the importance of femininity, like compassion and vulnerability, to make a complex and real character. But is it the same that masculinity is needed to make a character complete?
gazelle from kingsman is of course one of the best in this trope
I wonder if it’s just me or Is it feels like if you saw one The Take’s video you have seen them all! They basically have one thought and they keep making the same video with different titles! Use to love this channel! Their Games of Thrones videos were great!
really> ive been kinda thinking on this, do you mind elaborating?
I feel the same. I mostly skip the 'tropes' videos by now...they feel repetitive and also kinda...reprimanding. Not sure, if that's the right word. Pedantic, maybe? (Not a native speaker)
What I mean is, they take all the fun out of perfectly good movies, because: 'oh look, there's a trope somewhere in there'.
It's like being lectured about how unhealthy your favorite food is...technically true, but who wants to listen to it all the time?
I like their character analysis videos much, much better, because they always make me feel, like I know/understand the character much better, afterwards.
I am not a native speaker either so apologies in advance!
I get that there are some sexist undertone in movies and for years women characters portrait through male gaze,...but maybe 3-4 videos about that topic is enough! I was so disappointed by the gone girl video! There are so many interesting theme going on in that movie and they gone for the same predictable narrative! Same with Queen’s Gambit. They should change the channel’s name from "the take" to "A take". 😁I know creating content is hard so I hope this doesn’t comes off as mean or discouraging! But they use to explore so many interesting theme! It’s just a shame that I can predict the videos just by reading the title!
15:45 "They have their problems too" Is a gross oversimplification of what you are talking about. Male assassins in movies also go through some trauma in their life to make them so good at what they do. You can't just dismiss that by saying they have problems too as if it's less than the women's. Most male assassing live alone, have no family and generally are denied any type of "normal" life
I feel like a lot people like to call this trope “sexist” or like “objectifying women” but logically it makes to most sense. Like you’re an intelligence organisation or a military espionage or whatever you wanna call it. Like everyone is gonna suspect a stereotypical tough guy/girl like if the person going in to spy or assassinate is obviously tough or looks intimidating. That’s gonna give you away instantly I feel like. So if you send in someone traditionally attractive but like friendly and likeable suspicion is gonna be a lot lower. Like especially if it’s an attractive woman more so than a guy. Because like when someone is attractive you’re more drawn to the look and charm of that person and your guard is more easily lowered. And like while this may seem incredibly convoluted and unrealistic there have actually been women in history who work wise were average like no official military or combat experience who still used their attractiveness and skills to take out some really fucked up people. Like we all remember that article that went round a few years ago of an old woman being reported dead. And it was found out that she wasn’t in the military at all but would frequently seduce nazis at a local bar and kill them. So it still applies to real life scenarios. I know now a lot of women find this empowering but there are still people out there who wrongfully view the trope as sexist. Because yes they are sexualised but they use it to their advantage to infiltrate and do what needs to be done
Your videos are so good, I mean, SO GOOD. For real... I never miss a single one.
we need The Take to be on Letterboxd too! please make lists of all movies mentioned for each of your video essays. absolutely love the work of this channel!!!!
Arya never embraced the feminine aspects of life, she only did as her father made her. But once they got to Kings Landing, she starts wearing pants and learning how to sword fight. Arya never wanted a traditional family life for herself.
while i appreciate the sentiment i think jessica chastain is wrong about kill bill because the bride was already an assassin before the murder attempt so the film is not suggesting she is stronger because of her suffering
Wow! You both a) didn't spoil Mr & Mrs Smith & b) made me NEED to see it now! Thanks!
I'm surprised Harley Quinn wasn't mentioned in this video.
She's not exclusively an assassin
True.
would looove a list of the movies that you use clips of in your videos! every time I watch your videos, they're so well done, I immediately want to watch and research the movies you mention and it's a lil hard to catch every single title in bottom left corner
Keep the Killing Eve/Villanelle content coming!
I think you hit the nail on the head when you discuss the confidence of the female assassin. Confidence is sexy, and it is sadly discoraged in women.
So cool "We dont need to be obused to be powerfull. We allready are"
I don’t know that I’d agree with the implication John Wick wasn’t dealing with trauma and emotional baggage. It might not be to the extent of The Bride, but he’s definitely going through some stuff.
ummmm the bride was already strong. She was already a assassin.
Well... 99% of assassins' origin stories in movies are due to some sort of abuse they endured, doesn't matter whether they are male or female! Latest one I think of is john wick! Where a group of russian gangsters break into his house beat him up and kill his dog! So it's NOT just female assassins that are based on vengence or abuse or losing their identity!
I hate how many in the trope are second fiddle to a man, usually their husband/boyfriend or father. Then they usually only kill, become a spy or assassin because they’re protecting their husband/boyfriend, children or siblings. Or because their partner, children or family have been murdered. Or to get revenge because they’re raped or can’t have children. Hardly ever for themselves or because they want to or because they enjoy it and are good at it.
Red Sparrow was a movie that just went completely LEFT in my opinion
Could you please explain?
@@juliarandomidiot9834 I thought it was your average female spy movie: a woman uses her looks to seduce bad men then use her powers of espionage to kill them. But it went from a ballet dancer committing murder then working for the secret police because of her uncle, then she witnesses a murder she wasn’t suppose to and is given the choice of being a Red Sparrow or being executed. And the school isn’t exactly a spy school. They don’t teach her to use a gun or pick a lock or even defend herself. They make her use her body and her body ONLY and...it was just so much going on and it made no sense
@@bnadira212 I get what you mean, thanks for explaining
There's a Laura Mulvey essay in _Riddles of the Sphinx_ I think about fetishism from a Freudian perspective. The idea is basically that men want to see women with objects of phallic power like guns, whips and knives because they suffer from castration anxiety: the woman without a penis freaks them out.
I love female assassins! I even love video game assassins too, like Nina Williams from Tekken.
What about doing a video on female anti-heroines? It's a trope that rarely fits female characters in the media (a female character that kills and does underhanded, dastardly deeds to achieve her goals but is also beloved by the audience). Villanelle comes close, but she's more of a villain than an anti-heroine. Where's the female versions of Walter White or Tony Soprano? If a female character is deemed "too evil" then she's usually hated and despised.
OMG!!!! I have been waiting for this all my life😭😭😭🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I spent a whole night binging your videos!!! I LOVE THEM!! So many amazing video about female character tropes !!
Can’t wait for the Villanelle video!
This was a great breakdown of this trope
I wish you could have included the movie, "Sympathy for Lady Vengeance".
Great collection of films, but I gotta say that Brian DePalma’s catalogue also has a great array of femme fatales and female assassins. Who can pick a favorite?
Do the Girl spy troupe like Charlie's Angels, Totally Spies, Powerpuff Girls. How they are empowering and regressive (limited vision of female beauty beyond three different hair colors)
Yep, I agree with this stance! "Charlie's Spies" seemed to popularise the Female Power Trio, and how one is conventionally stunning (The Beauty), another's tough and athletic (The Brawn), and the third is logical and typically the voice of reason (The Brains). Bonus points if they're respectively Blonde, Redheaded or Brunette.
@@trinaq Yeah so what about the male Duo of one being strong and dumb and the other being Smart and weak. Y'all acting like these things are only tropes for females.
Powerpuff Girls are spies? Since when?
@@kimifw58 also the power Puff girls are very simple designs... And they're triplets in a way. Can't really define there looks more other than colours
@@kimifw58 Ya know what I mean
you guys are doing an amazing cultural work