Your timing on the windless project is (for me) perfect. I’m about to do a similar installation on my Polaris 43. Brilliant, common sense problem solving for each refit.. Very grateful for you and your efforts. A heartfelt thanks for the high quality video presentations.
Anxious for part 3. My son has an F24 MK2 and I recently completed building an F22 here in North Carolina. I especially appreciate your method for filling the syringe for injecting thickened epoxy - seems I typically make a mess. Being a retired shop teacher, I very much appreciate your clarity and camera work. Your videos provide an excellent resource. Thanks!!
Nice job James. I have the same problem of a leaking combing, rub rail, bulwark, cap rail, known by many names leaks all the same! It is a shame that a very strong and waterproof joint is then ruined by drilling a MILLION holes in it to attach the trim. Mid Pacific I had water sloshing around my interior and floorboards because of it, I ultimately reduced sail to heel less to cut down on the heel angle so less water ingress. If I had a shop and a place to take my boat out of the water To work on I would rip off all the teak trim and fiberglass over the whole joint from the outside then make new cap trim and attach it without putting screws through the joint. Unfortunately I probably won’t live long enough to do that! Haha! Thanks for the excellent video! Ben S/V DAWN in Tahiti, French Polynesia
Sorry to hear about the wet passage. On my first Pacific crossing I also had deck leaks that had me bailing out lockers and bilge every couple hours in rough weather or when beating due mainly to rotted deck core which made it impossible to seal any thru-deck fasteners. I'm thinking the repair method shown in this video will take care of the leaks but a bigger job of glassing over a new toe rail as you describe is another option.
I’ve learned more in the last two hours watching your videos then I have in many years. Thank you. I’m up in the Myrtle Beach area. Looking for my first sailboat. I like the Cape Dory 27 & 28’, Alberg 30 some Or the smaller pacific seacrafts, Shannon’s and nonsuch but they’re out of my price range. Just need a simple semi full keel preferably tiller steer. Again thanks for the education. I like that you dug out the balsa around the inside of the holes, filled them redrilled smaller holes so any water that possibly gets in doesn’t touch the balsa. Sounds like commons sense but I’m sure a lot Of people don’t do that.
Hi James Love your work. May ask what products specifically you used to glass that hull-deck joint? And you laid one layer of fiberglass tape over the thickened epoxy or multiple layers? Thanks for sharing your amazing skills.
Thanks. Since I figured the hull to deck joint was plenty strong and only needed sealing rather than much strengthening I used only one layer of 4" wide 8.7 oz weight fiberglass tape from the link below. Before the fiberglass I cleaned and sanded the sharp edges down and applied a fillet of thickened epoxy and then applied the fiberglass directly over it before it hardened. That makes the application much easier because you don't wait for it to harden and then need to sand it. I use uscomposites 635 epoxy kits and pumps and their Aerosil/Cabosil filler which is equivalent to West System 406: www.uscomposites.com/cloth.html www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html
Yes just freehand with the oscillating tool. As long as you have a line to follow you should be able to get it close to straight with some practice. Meanwhile it's easy to straighten the line with a belt sander or 4.5" angle grinder and 36 grit disc after you cut.
A higher mounting block adds unneeded weight and thickness, reduces the anchor clearance under the furling drum and the chock has a rounded uneven top with captive pin that doesn't do any good under the roller. Having said that, you certainly could do that if it was your preference.
I currently base job quotes on $70 per hour but am not taking on any more work since I am booked up for over a year ahead and getting closer to retirement and sailing my own boat more.
The windlass needs to be about 1" higher than the deck chain pipe fitting to allow clearance under the chain wheel for the cap to come off. The deck chain pipe should be raised at least 1/2" above the deck so less water comes below when sailing in rough seas. That makes a minimum of 1.5" windlass base block needed. It doesn't have to be teak. You can glue multiple layers of plywood together and then seal them well with several coats of epoxy resin and paint.
Was the balsa core around the original chain pipe rotted out? I am looking to repair my CD27, and it seems to have some balsa rot in that area. Curious how far the rot went when you repaired. Did you notice any rot on the new chain pipe hole?
Every boat can be different but on this one the exposed core was only slightly damp at the edge and when I dug it out about 1/2" all around to prepare for sealing with thickened epoxy, the core was dry and intact. If it had been wet but not rotted I would dig it back at least one inch and then let it dry, maybe using a heat gun to help, and then fill with epoxy and it would probably be good for many years. If actually rotted and felling spongy when you stand on it then you need to replace the core by cutting up the top skin on the deck.
Lovely work, Mr. Baldwin. What serial number is the project boat? I'm amazed at the variety in the way CDs shipped. My 79 CD27, number 146, has the short cook top overhang as your project has, but it has a very small corner electric panel above it, with about 15" of flat liner to the left to the companionway opening. The comparatively massive wiring box would make wiring easier, that's for sure! I look forward to the rest of the refit! Fair winds, Andy
I don't have the number at hand but it's a 1978. I've seen other 27s like yours with the smaller electrical box molded into the corner of the liner and I'm glad to have this factory version. The large box is also nice because it contains the backs of any instruments you mount on the bulkhead outside. If you need more space you could always cut it out and build a wood box there of whatever size you need. The large box does make it awkward for the standard stove position since it will bring heat and moisture closer to the switch panels but coming up next I show how we fixed that with a slide out stove counter.
@@atomvoyager Thank you! Yessir - I will be looking forward to the slide-out counter! Otherwise, I had been thinking about replicating the longer counter in the 1981 CD27s. I'd like to mount my Origo 3000 fore and aft so it can gimbal properly...one of these days lol
Not a fan of the battering ram on the front of the boat. My CD 27 had one installed and didn't like the look of it and didn't appreciate the damage done to an irreplaceable bronze fitting. The windlass is overkill on these boats. I went with bronze anchor chocks and an upsized Fortress anchor. I anchor a lot and this has worked out very well.
You're right to point out that not every owner of a 27 footer will want a windlass and bow roller if they have a strong back or don't mind using lightweight ground tackle. They are optional on this size boat. I'm refitting this one as I've done several others in what I call the Voyager Edition - ready for any sailor, even an old one like me, to circumnavigate, including making them safer for stops at deep precarious anchorages such as I've encountered on my own two circumnavigations on a similar design 28 footer.
In the past I preferred to use a large round bronze chain pipe but they are no longer available so I use the oval ones like the one linked below. You can't use a hinged one because there's no clearance for the lid to lift up. A smaller one will work if you are going to use a chain to rope splice and never need a shackle to pass through. www.westmarine.com/west-marine-oval-deck-pipe-116970.html
I haven't figured out which brand is best but use Titanium coated bi-metal blades. Read the reviews on amazon to get good ones and make sure they fit your particular tool.
Hello James, great video. Are you planning to reattach the liner cutouts? I would too need to make similar cuts to access the hull to deck joint but I'm not sure how to put them back, so the job is on hold for now. Also, where do those thick wires connected to the chain plates go, to the keel or a grounding plate? Are they for lightning? Thanks.
Yes, the wires go to a bronze lightning ground plate on the side of the keel. I do plan to reuse the cutout liner pieces by attaching them probably to metal brackets with screws so they can be easily removed for future maintenance or deck fittings.
Hi James, What size bolts did you use for the windlass? Are the black inserts (nylon bush) to be removed or they stay in the holes? Do you use washers too? Thanks.
The bolts are 3/8" and usually around 4-5" long depending on mounting block, deck thickness and backing plates. The nylon inserts are kept in place to serve as isolation between the stainless and aluminum and you should place a stainless flat washer under the bolt head to prevent crushing the nylon.
@@atomvoyager Thank you. That's very interesting because I tried 3/8" and they were too large. I am using 10mm bolts, the largest I found that fit nicely. Thanks for the tip about the washer, I wouldn't have thought it necessary. Best!
Does the Cape Dory 28 have standing headroom under the bimini in the cockpit? If not .. could you suggest a modification to allow you to stand up straight in the cockpit?
I haven't measured a CD28 . You could check the Cape Dory forum. Headroom under a bimini will vary and is restricted by boom height. I think the standard boom height on the 27 is too low for the bimini to clear myself at 5'8" but not sure the exact number. The CD28 is probably a couple inches more. I'll be moving the gooseneck up a several inches on the 27 here to gain some more headroom. This can be done on most boats to suit your height although the mainsail may need to be shortened if you run out of clearance on the luff hoist.
On some other designs I've seen where people have wanted the weight of the chain further aft or because the original chain locker was too small that they moved the windlass as far aft as just forward of the coachroof and dropped the chain down through a large PVC tube into a locker approx where I have the water tank installed on this boat. I would prefer not to do that though since it places that obstruction in the center of the v-berth and I prefer to use that space differently. I guess it would be possible to mount the windlass and the locker off-center but doesn't seem practical. Nothing comes to mind for any other method for what you describe.
Your timing on the windless project is (for me) perfect. I’m about to do a similar installation on my Polaris 43. Brilliant, common sense problem solving for each refit.. Very grateful for you and your efforts. A heartfelt thanks for the high quality video presentations.
Anxious for part 3. My son has an F24 MK2 and I recently completed building an F22 here in North Carolina. I especially appreciate your method for filling the syringe for injecting thickened epoxy - seems I typically make a mess. Being a retired shop teacher, I very much appreciate your clarity and camera work. Your videos provide an excellent resource. Thanks!!
Hi Don - also a long-time fan of James. Hope all is well. Just saw the Daedalus announcement re. F22 production.
Thank you!!!
Nice job James. I have the same problem of a leaking combing, rub rail, bulwark, cap rail, known by many names leaks all the same! It is a shame that a very strong and waterproof joint is then ruined by drilling a MILLION holes in it to attach the trim. Mid Pacific I had water sloshing around my interior and floorboards because of it, I ultimately reduced sail to heel less to cut down on the heel angle so less water ingress. If I had a shop and a place to take my boat out of the water To work on I would rip off all the teak trim and fiberglass over the whole joint from the outside then make new cap trim and attach it without putting screws through the joint. Unfortunately I probably won’t live long enough to do that! Haha! Thanks for the excellent video! Ben S/V DAWN in Tahiti, French Polynesia
Sorry to hear about the wet passage. On my first Pacific crossing I also had deck leaks that had me bailing out lockers and bilge every couple hours in rough weather or when beating due mainly to rotted deck core which made it impossible to seal any thru-deck fasteners. I'm thinking the repair method shown in this video will take care of the leaks but a bigger job of glassing over a new toe rail as you describe is another option.
Excellent detail in this video.
I’ve learned more in the last two hours watching your videos then I have in many years. Thank you. I’m up in the Myrtle Beach area. Looking for my first sailboat. I like the Cape Dory 27 & 28’, Alberg 30 some
Or the smaller pacific seacrafts, Shannon’s and nonsuch but they’re out of my price range. Just need a simple semi full keel preferably tiller steer. Again thanks for the education. I like that you dug out the balsa around the inside of the holes, filled them redrilled smaller holes so any water that possibly gets in doesn’t touch the balsa. Sounds like commons sense but I’m sure a lot
Of people don’t do that.
Excellent video. I learn so much in every video! Thanks!
Hi James
Love your work. May ask what products specifically you used to glass that hull-deck joint? And you laid one layer of fiberglass tape over the thickened epoxy or multiple layers? Thanks for sharing your amazing skills.
Thanks. Since I figured the hull to deck joint was plenty strong and only needed sealing rather than much strengthening I used only one layer of 4" wide 8.7 oz weight fiberglass tape from the link below. Before the fiberglass I cleaned and sanded the sharp edges down and applied a fillet of thickened epoxy and then applied the fiberglass directly over it before it hardened. That makes the application much easier because you don't wait for it to harden and then need to sand it. I use uscomposites 635 epoxy kits and pumps and their Aerosil/Cabosil filler which is equivalent to West System 406: www.uscomposites.com/cloth.html
www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html
Nice details James
Always outstanding...... very enjoyable to watch
Glad your back!
00:57 Did you use the vibrating tool to make that long straight cut just by following a drawn line? My cuts don’t look like that. 😔
Yes just freehand with the oscillating tool. As long as you have a line to follow you should be able to get it close to straight with some practice. Meanwhile it's easy to straighten the line with a belt sander or 4.5" angle grinder and 36 grit disc after you cut.
Why was it needed to cut down the chock underneath the new bow roller? Couldn't the block supporting the bow roller have simply been taller?
A higher mounting block adds unneeded weight and thickness, reduces the anchor clearance under the furling drum and the chock has a rounded uneven top with captive pin that doesn't do any good under the roller. Having said that, you certainly could do that if it was your preference.
Nice detail thinking...
I can't even imagine what refitting one of these boats must cost. How do you price your restorations? My 1976 CD30 Ketch could really use your talent.
I currently base job quotes on $70 per hour but am not taking on any more work since I am booked up for over a year ahead and getting closer to retirement and sailing my own boat more.
Hi. May i ask why it is necessary to raise the windlass by placing the teak under?
The windlass needs to be about 1" higher than the deck chain pipe fitting to allow clearance under the chain wheel for the cap to come off. The deck chain pipe should be raised at least 1/2" above the deck so less water comes below when sailing in rough seas. That makes a minimum of 1.5" windlass base block needed. It doesn't have to be teak. You can glue multiple layers of plywood together and then seal them well with several coats of epoxy resin and paint.
@@atomvoyager Thanks.
Thank you
Was the balsa core around the original chain pipe rotted out? I am looking to repair my CD27, and it seems to have some balsa rot in that area. Curious how far the rot went when you repaired. Did you notice any rot on the new chain pipe hole?
Every boat can be different but on this one the exposed core was only slightly damp at the edge and when I dug it out about 1/2" all around to prepare for sealing with thickened epoxy, the core was dry and intact. If it had been wet but not rotted I would dig it back at least one inch and then let it dry, maybe using a heat gun to help, and then fill with epoxy and it would probably be good for many years. If actually rotted and felling spongy when you stand on it then you need to replace the core by cutting up the top skin on the deck.
Lovely work, Mr. Baldwin. What serial number is the project boat? I'm amazed at the variety in the way CDs shipped. My 79 CD27, number 146, has the short cook top overhang as your project has, but it has a very small corner electric panel above it, with about 15" of flat liner to the left to the companionway opening. The comparatively massive wiring box would make wiring easier, that's for sure! I look forward to the rest of the refit! Fair winds, Andy
I don't have the number at hand but it's a 1978. I've seen other 27s like yours with the smaller electrical box molded into the corner of the liner and I'm glad to have this factory version. The large box is also nice because it contains the backs of any instruments you mount on the bulkhead outside. If you need more space you could always cut it out and build a wood box there of whatever size you need. The large box does make it awkward for the standard stove position since it will bring heat and moisture closer to the switch panels but coming up next I show how we fixed that with a slide out stove counter.
@@atomvoyager Thank you! Yessir - I will be looking forward to the slide-out counter! Otherwise, I had been thinking about replicating the longer counter in the 1981 CD27s. I'd like to mount my Origo 3000 fore and aft so it can gimbal properly...one of these days lol
Not a fan of the battering ram on the front of the boat. My CD 27 had one installed and didn't like the look of it and didn't appreciate the damage done to an irreplaceable bronze fitting. The windlass is overkill on these boats. I went with bronze anchor chocks and an upsized Fortress anchor. I anchor a lot and this has worked out very well.
You're right to point out that not every owner of a 27 footer will want a windlass and bow roller if they have a strong back or don't mind using lightweight ground tackle. They are optional on this size boat. I'm refitting this one as I've done several others in what I call the Voyager Edition - ready for any sailor, even an old one like me, to circumnavigate, including making them safer for stops at deep precarious anchorages such as I've encountered on my own two circumnavigations on a similar design 28 footer.
Hi James, is there a specific chain pipe that you can recommend to pair with the Lofrans Royal manual windlass? Thanks
In the past I preferred to use a large round bronze chain pipe but they are no longer available so I use the oval ones like the one linked below. You can't use a hinged one because there's no clearance for the lid to lift up. A smaller one will work if you are going to use a chain to rope splice and never need a shackle to pass through. www.westmarine.com/west-marine-oval-deck-pipe-116970.html
@@atomvoyager Thanks
Thanks for sharing.
Hi James, what multi tool blades do you use/recommend for fiberglass? Do you like one brand in particular? Thanks.
I haven't figured out which brand is best but use Titanium coated bi-metal blades. Read the reviews on amazon to get good ones and make sure they fit your particular tool.
Hello James, great video. Are you planning to reattach the liner cutouts? I would too need to make similar cuts to access the hull to deck joint but I'm not sure how to put them back, so the job is on hold for now. Also, where do those thick wires connected to the chain plates go, to the keel or a grounding plate? Are they for lightning? Thanks.
Yes, the wires go to a bronze lightning ground plate on the side of the keel. I do plan to reuse the cutout liner pieces by attaching them probably to metal brackets with screws so they can be easily removed for future maintenance or deck fittings.
Hi James, What size bolts did you use for the windlass? Are the black inserts (nylon bush) to be removed or they stay in the holes? Do you use washers too? Thanks.
The bolts are 3/8" and usually around 4-5" long depending on mounting block, deck thickness and backing plates. The nylon inserts are kept in place to serve as isolation between the stainless and aluminum and you should place a stainless flat washer under the bolt head to prevent crushing the nylon.
@@atomvoyager Thank you. That's very interesting because I tried 3/8" and they were too large. I am using 10mm bolts, the largest I found that fit nicely. Thanks for the tip about the washer, I wouldn't have thought it necessary. Best!
Does the Cape Dory 28 have standing headroom under the bimini in the cockpit? If not .. could you suggest a modification to allow you to stand up straight in the cockpit?
I haven't measured a CD28 . You could check the Cape Dory forum. Headroom under a bimini will vary and is restricted by boom height. I think the standard boom height on the 27 is too low for the bimini to clear myself at 5'8" but not sure the exact number. The CD28 is probably a couple inches more. I'll be moving the gooseneck up a several inches on the 27 here to gain some more headroom. This can be done on most boats to suit your height although the mainsail may need to be shortened if you run out of clearance on the luff hoist.
what if you wanted to move the chain locker even further aft, perhaps as far as the head. would something like that be practical?
On some other designs I've seen where people have wanted the weight of the chain further aft or because the original chain locker was too small that they moved the windlass as far aft as just forward of the coachroof and dropped the chain down through a large PVC tube into a locker approx where I have the water tank installed on this boat. I would prefer not to do that though since it places that obstruction in the center of the v-berth and I prefer to use that space differently. I guess it would be possible to mount the windlass and the locker off-center but doesn't seem practical. Nothing comes to mind for any other method for what you describe.