@@marrowkaiproductions7053 as someone else said, chaplain's buff is melee only, which isnt redundant with Anvil. That said, i would much rather a gravis chaplain gave a FNP, get some of that Feiros buff for non unique characters models
It's really funny to run Vanguard and put the Apothecary with them and give it the Blade Driven Deep. Infiltrate 11 T6 3W+ bodies. It's a lot to deal with and either has to or can't be dealt with.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 the toughness threshold is relevant. I have found that a decent number of armies are only prepared for a certain volume of t6 when I play bikers.
Tinfoil hat time!!! They were going to have an actual Gravis Lt, but GW was so sick of the Primaris Lt jokes and they already had the Lt w/ Combi-weapon in Leviathan.....so they decided to just make the Apothecary function as a Gravis Lt instead XD.
Gravis, Phobos, and Tacticus (not to mention Terminator) units are the biggest example of Space Marine bloat ever. Now I won't complain too much, as I play Space Marines, but as someone who predominantly collects the army due to its versatility I'd appreciate other factions being raised to the same standard.
@@moderndavinci6599 I think the armors are fine. GW just decided to create massive data sheet bloat by making each character+armor combination its own thing. It wouldn't have been an issue before.
I personally LOVE Heavy Intercessors. They're perfectly designed to counter T3/4 Infantry hordes, and just beg to be targeted if you throw them into the mid objective while, of course, your bigger threats position up to clear the field of threats.
With your recent salamanders video I think it’d be fun to build a gravis/flames/meltas salamanders list with lots of flamers, meltas, and big dudes in gravis armor.
I’ve got a Salamanders list with a max squad of Aggressors (with Captain), max eradicators (in a Land Raider Redeemer) and two max squads of Infernus marines. If I can locate some Multi-Melta Landspeeders, I’ll be in business haha
Twin-linked on flamers with the 2CP dev-wounds-on-torrent-weapons stratagem is NASTY. I straight up wipe my friend's terminators off the board like scrubbing bubbles.
I love gravis! I am currently running an Anvil siege list as follows: 3x5 heavy intercessors 2x3 inceptors bolters 1x6 aggressors w/bolter&grenades 1x6 eradicators 2x3 centurion dev w/ las and rockets 2x vindicators Gravis captain w/ stoic Apothecary bio w/architect Garadon Its very good at grinding in the mid board, and requires a lot of leapfrog ing
Here's a bit of a death star combo for you. 6 aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets, a captain, and an apothecary. The apothecary gives everyone lethals, and a lot of power fists to trigger that OC. If you're in a flamestorm detachment, you can give your captain a S11 power fist to go from hitting like a truck to a bulldozer. If you transport everyone in a land raider crusader, then you have even more bolter fire and multi melta to keep going forward.
I love Gravis armor. My first "big" 40K purchase was Know No Fear, so I had the Gravis Captain and Inceptors and never left home without them. Then Indomitus brought the Eradicators. Got some Aggressors and Heavy Intercessors as well. Ended up having to sell that Marine army, but every time I see boxes with Gravis stuff it tempts me to purchase it.
Right now the Biologus is an ok stand in for a Lieutenant, what I want to see a cool option for is a Gravis Librarian, thing about how different standing them in the open would feel with the +4 invulnerable save or sustained hits since unlike the terminators they really do want to focus on ranged fire as they stand and deliver
If they do another character in Gravis armour, id love to see one with the Gravis jump pack so it can join units of Inceptors or Supressors. Maybe when the Biologis gets a non-monopose kit, a jump pack could be a nice option.
@@zacharypurdue4584 Suppressors are very likely to be put into legends next edition. They aren't taken in competitive and are rather difficult to acquire as they only came in the Indomitus starter set. It's very telling that GW never bothered to make a standalone kit.
As a new player this is super helpful. You can kind of see oh this one is heavier looking but it’s not obvious with a lot of them. Had no idea what gravis vs phobos vs terminator vs assault vs interceptor vs intercessor, etc it is all jargon until you know. Need like a space marine glossary. Appreciate your content!
I usually run Iron Father Feirros with a six man squad of aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets and frag launchers, and a brutalis dreadnought with fists and multi meltas. Basically a solid brick of death slowly trudging up the board.
I think gravis should be the default for Space Marines, appearance-wise. Especially the eradicator / heavy intercessor variant just looks better without looking significantly bigger.
Unpopular opinion: Normal Primaris (Tacticus) should be T5, 3+, 6" Phobos should be T4, 3+, 7" Gravis should be T6, 2+, 5" Terminators should be T6, 2+, 4++, 5"
In champions of rus if you give a gravis captain the Wolf Tail Talisman, you half the damage and then subtract 1 from it to turn a 4 damage attack into a 1 damage attack.
The old notion that the imperium is unable to reverse engineer terminator armor but can come up with armor variants like these is a lore choice I always thought was a stretch. Then again, that same imperium puts church organs on the tops of tanks.
I think they can build new suits of Terminator armor (particularly the Indomitus pattern) but the armors are so respurce intense and slow to build. The purpose of Gravis armor is to provide greater protection than Tacticus while still maintaining flexibility (jump packs, weaponry, and ease of use) even if it isnt as effective as Terminator armor.
@@BigBoi237 Gravis armor is easier to product. To the point they can hand it out to battle line troops. Terminator armor still has to be doled out to officers and elite troops.
You know I wish this lineup get expanded beyond Apothecary Biologis, like Primaris Lieutenant/Techmarine/Chaplain in gravis armour, assault gravis unit with Eviscerators to Anti vehicle Gravis unit with Multi Lascannon/Grav-cannon
The best armour mark As soon as we get literally any Gravis unit with an invuln, it’s over lol imagine a unit of 6 gravis guys walking up the board with power weapons and shields
@@radmike8710 The problem with Terminators is they pay a premium for those invuls. Right now the only army that even uses terminators really is Dark angels. For everyone else they are just too expensive. Even with deep strike there are just more efficient units for the cost. Which is a damn shame, because I love terminators. I was hoping that 1st company task force would be good, so everyone could have one of those elite terminator brick armies, but sadly, the detachment is complete garbage.
@@radmike8710 because I like Gravis armour more? I didn’t think that needed to be explained given that I commented it’s the best armour. And I’m sure there are actual gameplay reasons why you might want to take a 6-man melee gravis unit instead of a 10-man terminator assault squad, but I don’t care enough to get into that.
@@CuriousLumenwood My reason would be that, a 6 man Aggressor squad can still shoot while it's gap closing. Assault termies can't. That's why I personally prefer Aggressors. In a world where Termies are pointed better, I'd still use Aggressors I think because mass Twin-linked firepower, wound rerolls is awesome. Deep striking into a 9 inch charge is never a guarantee, and more often than not ends badly for me. xD
I think this armor variant is just brilliant. It's just a shame they didn't run the Desolation Marines in the gravis, I'm convinced that would have made for a much better platform.
Personally, I use a total of 11 Gravis Marines in my 3000 points army. A squad of 5 Heavy Intercessors who have two jobs; 1: plonk down on an objective near my deployment zone. And 2: plink at the enemy infantry with their heavy bolt rifles. And two squads of 3 Inceptors each, both squads with assault bolters. They get to deep strike and try to eliminate enemy heavy weapons teams or equivalent. Maybe harass smaller enemy infantry squads. Depends on the enemy army, really.
The thing that sucks with gravis at the moment, is the lack of any ability, detachment or stratagem that supports or synergize with the Gravis keyword. Gravis keyword unlike Phobos or tacticus is a downside: - Takes 2 slot in a transport which makes it difficulty to transport 10 Heavy Intercessors. - No Librarian or a way to give Invul saves to gravis which make them really squishy to tanks or attacks with high AP. - No Real apothecary or a way to revive dead Gravis unit (except Indomitable Fury). - No Judiciar or chaplain, so no way to give them fight first or extra wounds on codex detachment. - Only codex detachments I know of that supports Gravis directly is Anvil, the enhancement in question is kind of bad since it doesn't immediately benefit the unit or unit it leads until it dies. (Indomitable Fury). Don't get me wrong, Gravis are currently good just because they are carried by their good toughness, weapon profile and ability. (Aside from my boy; the heavy intercessors and post-nerf Garadon).
I totally agree, but I’m curious as to what you’d set Gravis Armor toughness to be then. Or light vehicles for that matter (Gravis are pretty much personal light vehicles in their own right 😂).
What’s annoying about the apothecary biologis is I can’t use it in space wolves, despite being able to at launch. But I decided to use it as a chaplain in terminator armor, since SW’s apothecaries are their chaplains.
Gravis armour is the only Primaris armour type that is tough enough; it’s easily the best, all it needs are the same character allowances and a dedicated melee or long range anti tank squad
@sjf40k I was gobsmacked when they revealed Desolation marines andesrned they were tacticus, not gravis. That "bristling with so many missile ports you look like a digganob" chic would have WORKED on a Gravis Marine!
I think you're overlooking Tor Garadon plus Biologus with Agressors combo in Gladius, given that the shooting buffs benefit Tor more than a standard gravis captain against heavy targets. AP-5 ignoring cover with lethal and sustained at damage 4 is a chance to 1-shot a land raider.
I'm playing a game against my friend's Guard list. 50 Heavy Intercessors, Azrael, 10 Sternguard, Apothecary and 3 Repulsor Executioner in Vanguard detachment. 50 Heavy Intercessors are HARD to chew through. And their guns are pretty decent at destroying light guard infantry and not bad against Chimeras.
Still would love a Gravis unit that is more focused like the Gravis Captain. Shooting plus melee + extra attacks. Would be a very fun unit to play with.
I fucking wish I could run iron father ferros in my blood angels leading a full squad of aggressors in the sons of Sanguinius detachment backed up by a brutalis dread
I keep forgetting that the comparisons are made for 2k pt games because at 1k points, units like the Heavy Intercessor could be worth their weight in gold if in enough quantities played well.
I have a Gravis Captain. I made the foolish mistake of trying to base my Dark Angels battle list on the Vengeful Brethren Combat Patrol. Until I realized that the Captain was basically worthless. Maybe I could give it to one of my club members to build a Black Templars army.
The forst time i used my inceptors, dropped in my brothers backline (Necrons) they scored a secondary, shot next turn with supercharged plasma. I rolled three 1's on my hazardous check and they were dead. It was hilarious 😂
Can I just say my ONE issue with Gravis? It's that stupid skew that the Prefix-storm gauntlets have on their attached weapons. It's a power fist, great. But it has a box attached to the ONE PART that would get in the way of both a backhand AND hammer fist blow. Grey Knights, Angelus bolter, Pedro Kantor with their weapon mounted on the back of the hand? Good. Gauntlets Of Ultramar, Hand Of Dominion with the weapon mounted below the palm? Awesome. Gauntlets Of The Forge with the flamer mounted on the inside of the palm? Great. Storm gauntlets? Nah nah we gotta have it at an angle. WHY?!
One thing I do not understand. Gravis armour get one W more than other marines in cost of less M. Tell me if I am wrong but Phobos should get -1 to Sv and +1 to move. It would give more to Vibe of a game :) cheers and thanks for Video
Heavy Intercessors really shine in Anvil Siege Force. Give them a Biologis for Lethal Hits. Put them on an Objective and they have a 2+ save vs damage 1. If they stand still they get +1 to hit and wound. Use Battle Drill recall on them whiel they aare standing still and it all clicks. Sustained Hits 1, Lethal Hits, Crits on 5. +1 to Hit and Wound, Rerolls to Hit on Oath of Moment. They start churning out the dakka. The problem I find is they shine in Anvil Siege Force and so do Eradicators. Aggressors and Inceptors don't. There is no one great detachment for all Gravis. If All Gravis units counted as having full benefits of the Heavy keyword then you would have a MURDEROUS detachment.
combi weapon gauntlet have the range weapon on top of fist is kind of counter intuitive imho. In a melee scenario, wouldn't blocking enemy melee or punching risk damaging the barrel of the range weapon ? It would makes more sense if it's under the fist instead of over it. You can still block and punch without damage the range weapon barrel. And consider you can't really aim down sight with a gauntlet weapon compare to a rifle base weapon, feels like the BW should be 4+ instead of 3+. Or make it have shorter range, so there is some trade off between full rifle model and combi weapon gauntlet.
Well only minus with gravis is you only get +1T and usually only 3+ armour. Were terminators have 2+ save and 4+ invul. Lower Toughness but if you meet speciel weapons and high str you are screwed anyway...then i prefer my +4 invul.😅
Love the channel. I do wish you'd consider switching the background from black on white to white on black (or another darker color.). The white is just a bit bland and very bright.
i did not realize or appreciate that Gravis Armor is T6... that's tougher than Terminator Armor! *And* they also get 3 wounds??? I get that their save is only 3+ and not 2+ but it seems like in a lot of ways, Gravis units just kind of obsolete Terminators? Especially when there are so many variants like 10" speed inceptors. Huh. EDIT: I suppose I am undervaluing the 4++...
I got so sick of gw leaving gravis out to dry so often i decided to make a full company command in gravis armour. They should look great in my gravis army.
I know the Gravis Apothecary is more or less a Lieutenant and is really good but I would have killed for an honest to God Emperor Apothecary. Yes it would have made any squad their attached to insane to try and kill but just make it a little expensive to buy into. If they aren't going to give us that, a Chaplain, Inceptor Captain, or Librarian are top on my demands.
Also, return Heavy Bolt rifles to 2 damage. I don't care if the points need to go up a bit to compensate, it's asinine to me that you took the heavy MEQ killer weapon and made them no different to the regular rifle on 9th.
@@Butterwinkle They did that will all the weapon variants. I can promise you they aren't going to let you have a S5, AP-1, 2-shot-base gun that you can advance and shoot on a 3+ or stay still and hit on a 2+ do D2 AND cost 20 ppm.
For a gravis captain that will fill a more balanced roll, would you take the captain with the gauntlet/ power fist or the gravis with a heavy bolt rifle?
Calgar's guards can't tank hits on behalf of a led unit like aggressors. They can do it for calgar himself, but without precision they can't take saves over the unit they're leading
I really like the aesthetic of gravis armour but I think many of the units are too costly right now. It also just doesn't hold up as well compared to other stuff like termis or bladeguard because it lacks neither the 2+ or the 4+ invul. Eradicators are decent and Heavy intercessors are decent but Inceptors are very costly and just seem to die most of the time once you use them once or blow themselves up from overcharging and aggressors just aren't worth the points imo. Lack of character support doesn't help either, you basically have the lethal hit biologis and the captain who doesn't really buff the unit, then a few niche special characters.
We all know about the Gladius combo using "Fire Discipline/Apothecary Biologis/Aggressors". What would happen if Heavy Intercessors were used instead of Aggressors? I suspect the shooting damage output would be roughly the same, but the unit would be more durable, because ten chonky intercessors survive longer than six aggressors. Would you please compare the two?
Good luck getting those 10 HI where they need to go to make use of that combo though. With the amount of terrain generally used (especially in tournaments), they'll be lucky to get one turn of it before something melees them. And good luck with that as GW in its infinite wisdom decided not to give the sgt. a powerfist.
@@JimH. FIRST: I don't play competitive. The local competitive players are not nice people and contributed to the negative reputation Warhammer has. SECOND: Heavy Intercessors have assault weapons. I get to the board center in the second turn without an issue. THIRD: I play Gladius. I can either use a command point and step away from an enemy OR use Tactical Doctrine. I'd really like to see the math on how this very durable and low points unit would do with the "Fire Discipline/Apothecary" combo.
@@bearnolen3584 It still remains a suboptimal use of the Biologis, but it's your game and you play it how you wish. I'm not sure if I'd call 285 points "low" but by all means try it out.
@@bearnolen3584 Well, we can do some napkin math here. 10 HI is 20 shots at S5, AP-1, D1. The Biologis with enhancement adds lethal and sustained both on 5's. Using Storm of Fire ignores cover and makes them AP-2. For purposes here, we will NOT be using Oath of Moment. 20 shots with a d6 means you will get 3.33 of every die possibility: 3.33 1's, 3.33 2's, etc. 5's and 6's get you sustained 1 and lethal which gives us 6.67 extra hits and of those original 20, 6.67 are auto wounds. If moving there are 6.67 misses (1's and 2's) and if stationary, 3.33 misses (1's only). Thus, our moving results should be 6.67 misses and 13.33 hits + 6.67 sustained hits (20), 6.67 of which auto-wound. Our stationary should be 3.33 misses and 16.67 hits + 6.67 sustained hits (23.33), 6.67 auto wound. Wounding depends entirely on the target's toughness, but we'll use T4 as a starting point since it's pretty common. S5 will wound T4 on a 3+ and we already have 6.67 auto wounds. Moving gets us 6.67 3's and 4's and the 6.67 sustained for 13.33 wounds. Add the previous 6.67 auto wounds for a total of 20 wounds. Stationary gets us 10 2's, 3's and 4's and the 6.67 sustained for 16.67 wounds. Add in the lethal hits and it's 23.33 wounds. Against a 3+ save that's reduced to a 5+ (from the AP-2), that means 2/3 of their saves would fail. Moving means 13.33 failed saves and stationary means 15.55 failed saves. Let's assume said target uses some form of Armor of Contempt stratagem and now saves on a 4+. The numbers remain the same except for them now failing only half their saves. This gets us 10 failed saves moving or 11.66 stationary failed saves. So basically, against SM equivalents, you're netting between 5 and 7 dead. I'm not going to go over every single possibility like AT does, but I'm pretty sure (feel free to math-check me, I may have made an error somewhere) this is a good approximation.
Love the Gravis armour look, it's just so silly ... but so cool! The chonky Heavy Intercessors might be a little "meh" on the table top, but there's something about a T6 3W squad that just hits the spot. Even better when they had access to SiA, but guess we're not allowed to have fun like that these days.
I think Feros is better than he looks. Put him with 10 heavy intercessors, then walk him up the board and park him on the midfeid with a dreadnaught parked on his ass Or better yet, infiltrate him there from the start of the game. Very hard to shift
I think Gravis is cool but I can't really justify the cost. Maybe if I was primarily playing Space Marines but they're my second army after T'au, so I'm trying to get by with converted firstborn/30k models where possible and the idea of paying 3x as much per model seems kinda crazy.
still want to take aggressors and eradicators in units of 5 or 10. the 6 man squads (with characters) don't really fit in transports, and 6 man squads put them in a weird place vs other large squads of elites units (like terminators). it would be easier to do with a points per model system but we currently don't have that. also their lack of melee does put their durability in a strange spot. also a note on the gravis characters, Named characters are less dependent on the buffs they individually give and the opportunity costs associated with taking them. Fierros locks you out of many amazing character and unit options, when you could get a tach marine for cheaper and do his job just as well. These single character faction units have not been pointed for their opportunity cost, and the fact that you get nothing but that character for selecting iron hands (when in past editions you would have had an army wide feel no pain, now you have nothing, it is just a down grade when compared to ultra marines, templars, dark angels, or other major sub-factions.).
I never thought about a Gravis Chaplain, but now I NEED it.
If they do it, it shouldn't give +1 to wound since Anvil already does that with a bunch of Gravis stuff. Maybe a reroll?
@@marrowkaiproductions7053anvil doesn’t give plus 1 to melee wounds tho. Chaplain only gives Plus 1 to wound in combat
@@marrowkaiproductions7053 as someone else said, chaplain's buff is melee only, which isnt redundant with Anvil. That said, i would much rather a gravis chaplain gave a FNP, get some of that Feiros buff for non unique characters models
Gravis Chaplain in Aggressor style armor just makes sense to me
We also need gravis primaris lieutenant
Honestly, I think Heavy Intercessors are flying under the radar. The sheer fucking GIRTH you get for 20ppm is kinda nuts.
It's really funny to run Vanguard and put the Apothecary with them and give it the Blade Driven Deep. Infiltrate 11 T6 3W+ bodies. It's a lot to deal with and either has to or can't be dealt with.
I run 2 squads in my salamanders, they're absolutely nutty if used right
I still need to field all 60 of mine in a game. Bring all the wounds.
If only clown writing SM rules gave them power fist on sarge :(
I've been saying this for ages best bang for your buck in 10th
I have 30 heavy intercessors on the painting table right now, I am very eager to force opponents to answer the questions posed by so much meat
It's like throwing a legion of tactical marines at the enemy, only T6 instead of T4.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 the toughness threshold is relevant. I have found that a decent number of armies are only prepared for a certain volume of t6 when I play bikers.
wich chapter?
@@vake1234 blood ravens. Just a part of a larger collection
@@WilhelmScreamer one of my top 5 chapter.
To be fair, I think the apothecary biologys is meant to be the LT in Gravis, and it's a nice change in aesthetic from another LT.
Tinfoil hat time!!!
They were going to have an actual Gravis Lt, but GW was so sick of the Primaris Lt jokes and they already had the Lt w/ Combi-weapon in Leviathan.....so they decided to just make the Apothecary function as a Gravis Lt instead XD.
I would prefer a real Gravis LT and then a real Gravis Apothecary, Chaplain and Librarian as well.
Gravis, Phobos, and Tacticus (not to mention Terminator) units are the biggest example of Space Marine bloat ever.
Now I won't complain too much, as I play Space Marines, but as someone who predominantly collects the army due to its versatility I'd appreciate other factions being raised to the same standard.
I would like an actual lieutenant though, Space Wolves cant use apothecary
@@moderndavinci6599 I think the armors are fine. GW just decided to create massive data sheet bloat by making each character+armor combination its own thing. It wouldn't have been an issue before.
I personally LOVE Heavy Intercessors. They're perfectly designed to counter T3/4 Infantry hordes, and just beg to be targeted if you throw them into the mid objective while, of course, your bigger threats position up to clear the field of threats.
With your recent salamanders video I think it’d be fun to build a gravis/flames/meltas salamanders list with lots of flamers, meltas, and big dudes in gravis armor.
2000pts of flamesrorm aggressors 🔥
@@Josh24861 A visionary right here
I’ve got a Salamanders list with a max squad of Aggressors (with Captain), max eradicators (in a Land Raider Redeemer) and two max squads of Infernus marines.
If I can locate some Multi-Melta Landspeeders, I’ll be in business haha
Twin-linked on flamers with the 2CP dev-wounds-on-torrent-weapons stratagem is NASTY. I straight up wipe my friend's terminators off the board like scrubbing bubbles.
my salamander army is more terminator heavy
Last time I was first Titus was a Captain
Did you have nothing interesting to say then, too?
@@charleshowie2074😂 I bet he thought “ooo a reply” saw that and switched his device straight off
@@Massen.I'm just curious what they are trying to say
@@Djones0125 Who?
@@Massen. the op. Something about titus?
Gravis Space Marines makes me wanna collect Space Marines, love the design ^^
I love gravis! I am currently running an Anvil siege list as follows:
3x5 heavy intercessors
2x3 inceptors bolters
1x6 aggressors w/bolter&grenades
1x6 eradicators
2x3 centurion dev w/ las and rockets
2x vindicators
Gravis captain w/ stoic
Apothecary bio w/architect
Garadon
Its very good at grinding in the mid board, and requires a lot of leapfrog ing
I love this - me too. Almost the same list. I use a Kratos instead of a Land Raider as I love that kit…top Grav midfield play 🙌🙌
Here's a bit of a death star combo for you. 6 aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets, a captain, and an apothecary. The apothecary gives everyone lethals, and a lot of power fists to trigger that OC. If you're in a flamestorm detachment, you can give your captain a S11 power fist to go from hitting like a truck to a bulldozer. If you transport everyone in a land raider crusader, then you have even more bolter fire and multi melta to keep going forward.
Or just run them as Imperial Fists and use Tor Garadon. He does 4 damage to vehicles and monsters.
The gravis Captain with 4+ FNP from ironstorm is juicy.
5+FNP, and with a brick of heavy intercessors it nullifies SO much damage
@@Xicada-No the flesh is weak in ironstorm is a 4+ FNP. The Artificer armour in Gladius is a 2+ save and 5+ FNP. Both are solid.
I would love to run a Gravis Captain as a mini-C'tan
@@tyhar7493 artificer armor on a gravis captain with -1 CP for AoC has been the backbone of so many aggressor bombs. Good times
I love Gravis armor. My first "big" 40K purchase was Know No Fear, so I had the Gravis Captain and Inceptors and never left home without them. Then Indomitus brought the Eradicators. Got some Aggressors and Heavy Intercessors as well. Ended up having to sell that Marine army, but every time I see boxes with Gravis stuff it tempts me to purchase it.
Right now the Biologus is an ok stand in for a Lieutenant, what I want to see a cool option for is a Gravis Librarian, thing about how different standing them in the open would feel with the +4 invulnerable save or sustained hits since unlike the terminators they really do want to focus on ranged fire as they stand and deliver
Need a Gravis Chaplain and Librarian.
I know the joke is GW makes too many lieutenant models... but i sure would love one in gravis for my Gravis only army.
Biologis basically fills the role, it's only different flavor wise
If they do another character in Gravis armour, id love to see one with the Gravis jump pack so it can join units of Inceptors or Supressors.
Maybe when the Biologis gets a non-monopose kit, a jump pack could be a nice option.
suppressors are not gravis though, they are t4
@@shadowywarriorThey use parts from both gravid and phobos armour, which is why they don't have an armour keyword.
@@shadowywarrior Wait what? Id always assumed they were Gravis 😅 Never looked at them too closely i guess.
A multipart suppressor squad would be nice for that
@@zacharypurdue4584 Suppressors are very likely to be put into legends next edition. They aren't taken in competitive and are rather difficult to acquire as they only came in the Indomitus starter set. It's very telling that GW never bothered to make a standalone kit.
As a new player this is super helpful. You can kind of see oh this one is heavier looking but it’s not obvious with a lot of them.
Had no idea what gravis vs phobos vs terminator vs assault vs interceptor vs intercessor, etc it is all jargon until you know. Need like a space marine glossary. Appreciate your content!
I usually run Iron Father Feirros with a six man squad of aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets and frag launchers, and a brutalis dreadnought with fists and multi meltas. Basically a solid brick of death slowly trudging up the board.
The heavy Intercessors look fantastic and are a very fun build!
I cant wait to get my hands on heavy intercessors and make myself a loyalist death guard chapter
I think gravis should be the default for Space Marines, appearance-wise.
Especially the eradicator / heavy intercessor variant just looks better without looking significantly bigger.
Unpopular opinion:
Normal Primaris (Tacticus) should be T5, 3+, 6"
Phobos should be T4, 3+, 7"
Gravis should be T6, 2+, 5"
Terminators should be T6, 2+, 4++, 5"
I agree
Honestly yea lol base Tacticus marines are seriously squishy against so many profiles this slight tweak would really help
I mean yeah. I agree. Marines feel less resilient than guardsman squads because there's so many weapon profiles that chew through T4 / 2W
Yeah sure make gravis armour as tough as Custodes armour, totally make sense 🙄
I don’t even play SM and I agree with this lol
The one with power fists and flamers is just a Firebat from starcraft, so you know I got to paint them red with hotrod trim!
In champions of rus if you give a gravis captain the Wolf Tail Talisman, you half the damage and then subtract 1 from it to turn a 4 damage attack into a 1 damage attack.
The old notion that the imperium is unable to reverse engineer terminator armor but can come up with armor variants like these is a lore choice I always thought was a stretch. Then again, that same imperium puts church organs on the tops of tanks.
I think they can build new suits of Terminator armor (particularly the Indomitus pattern) but the armors are so respurce intense and slow to build. The purpose of Gravis armor is to provide greater protection than Tacticus while still maintaining flexibility (jump packs, weaponry, and ease of use) even if it isnt as effective as Terminator armor.
@@BigBoi237 Gravis armor is easier to product. To the point they can hand it out to battle line troops. Terminator armor still has to be doled out to officers and elite troops.
Gravis units are my favorites. I run them in Anvil detachment.
You know I wish this lineup get expanded beyond Apothecary Biologis, like Primaris Lieutenant/Techmarine/Chaplain in gravis armour, assault gravis unit with Eviscerators to Anti vehicle Gravis unit with Multi Lascannon/Grav-cannon
I would LOVE a mele gravis unit with chainswords or eviscerators
@@RevanR i wouldn’t mind that.
I hope they make them 5 to 10 man squads.
Big unit of grav cannons would be fun.
Also give me melee gravis marines.
I would love a double eviscerator armed squad of chunky gravis lads. Loyalist eightbound!
As the Firstborn units are retired, I genuinely hope they roll Devastators and the Centurion variants into heavy weapon/siege Gravis marines
Would a gravis lieutenant be the same buff as the Biologis - lethal hits? Wondering if we need one if they would be the same.
The best armour mark
As soon as we get literally any Gravis unit with an invuln, it’s over lol imagine a unit of 6 gravis guys walking up the board with power weapons and shields
Why? Terminators are almost the same but have 10 models
@@radmike8710 The problem with Terminators is they pay a premium for those invuls. Right now the only army that even uses terminators really is Dark angels. For everyone else they are just too expensive. Even with deep strike there are just more efficient units for the cost. Which is a damn shame, because I love terminators. I was hoping that 1st company task force would be good, so everyone could have one of those elite terminator brick armies, but sadly, the detachment is complete garbage.
@@TheLongVigil Agreed. I so badly wanted to play a vet and dreadnought heavy army.
@@radmike8710 because I like Gravis armour more? I didn’t think that needed to be explained given that I commented it’s the best armour.
And I’m sure there are actual gameplay reasons why you might want to take a 6-man melee gravis unit instead of a 10-man terminator assault squad, but I don’t care enough to get into that.
@@CuriousLumenwood My reason would be that, a 6 man Aggressor squad can still shoot while it's gap closing. Assault termies can't. That's why I personally prefer Aggressors. In a world where Termies are pointed better, I'd still use Aggressors I think because mass Twin-linked firepower, wound rerolls is awesome. Deep striking into a 9 inch charge is never a guarantee, and more often than not ends badly for me. xD
I think this armor variant is just brilliant. It's just a shame they didn't run the Desolation Marines in the gravis, I'm convinced that would have made for a much better platform.
Same. Maybe we'll get lucky and Gravis will get a Grav-weapon unit, assuming they don't primarisify the Devastator and Tactical Squads.
If only clown writing SM rules gave them power fist on sarge :(
Aggressor Biologis and Calgar is Blue Death Star
Personally, I use a total of 11 Gravis Marines in my 3000 points army.
A squad of 5 Heavy Intercessors who have two jobs; 1: plonk down on an objective near my deployment zone. And 2: plink at the enemy infantry with their heavy bolt rifles.
And two squads of 3 Inceptors each, both squads with assault bolters. They get to deep strike and try to eliminate enemy heavy weapons teams or equivalent. Maybe harass smaller enemy infantry squads. Depends on the enemy army, really.
1: plonk , 2: plink , 3: ?
The thing that sucks with gravis at the moment, is the lack of any ability, detachment or stratagem that supports or synergize with the Gravis keyword. Gravis keyword unlike Phobos or tacticus is a downside:
- Takes 2 slot in a transport which makes it difficulty to transport 10 Heavy Intercessors.
- No Librarian or a way to give Invul saves to gravis which make them really squishy to tanks or attacks with high AP.
- No Real apothecary or a way to revive dead Gravis unit (except Indomitable Fury).
- No Judiciar or chaplain, so no way to give them fight first or extra wounds on codex detachment.
- Only codex detachments I know of that supports Gravis directly is Anvil, the enhancement in question is kind of bad since it doesn't immediately benefit the unit or unit it leads until it dies. (Indomitable Fury).
Don't get me wrong, Gravis are currently good just because they are carried by their good toughness, weapon profile and ability. (Aside from my boy; the heavy intercessors and post-nerf Garadon).
What did they do to my Garadon? Jesus we dont have much and they wanna give us less?
@@Darksky1001able Can't have other compliant chapters outperforming the blue boys.
I LOVE aggressors. Always have. As Raven Guard, they can be extremely timely bastion units. Always take Smash Cap to got with a 6man.
Feirros is great with Heavy Intercessors advancing up to the mid field with a Brutalis and/or a Redpemptor
As far as i am concerned, heavy intercessors have the stat line standard marines should have to be more lore accurate. 🤷🏻♂️
I totally agree, but I’m curious as to what you’d set Gravis Armor toughness to be then. Or light vehicles for that matter (Gravis are pretty much personal light vehicles in their own right 😂).
Im just glad Gravis didnt replace Termis. Termis in lore and aesthetically answer the question of “what if a space suit was designed for war?”
I’m glad they didn’t replace terminators they are way too iconic, same with the land raider
I love Gravis, it looks cool.
My Salamanders are all gravis except for the infernus marines. To represent their tough and inevitable style
I think you are underselling play just how tanky IFF is on a mid board with a giant ten-man blob of heavy intercessors and a redemptor backing them up
love my chunk boys!
i am hoping we get another melee variety of gravis that isnt the aggressor
Welcome to, every marine you NEED for your Salamanders!
Feiros gets a 10/10 for looking awesome.
I have an Ultramarine Tech Marine but I use IFF (with some bit swapping) just because that model is fantastic!
Gravis is my fav thing in all of 40k
What’s annoying about the apothecary biologis is I can’t use it in space wolves, despite being able to at launch. But I decided to use it as a chaplain in terminator armor, since SW’s apothecaries are their chaplains.
Yea, its bad man, I wish we get some gravis character beside captain...
One of my buddies uses a 10man brick of Heavy Ints with an Apothecary Biologis. It is really annoying and makes you have to keep Cull the Horde
Gravis armour is the only Primaris armour type that is tough enough; it’s easily the best, all it needs are the same character allowances and a dedicated melee or long range anti tank squad
Yeah, why are there no Gravis Devastators? Makes sense for them to have plasma cannons, lascannons, etc
@@sjf40k 11th edition.
@sjf40k I was gobsmacked when they revealed Desolation marines andesrned they were tacticus, not gravis. That "bristling with so many missile ports you look like a digganob" chic would have WORKED on a Gravis Marine!
And yet, in Space Marine 2 you can dodge roll spam in this armor....
I figured them more along the lines of centurion upgrades. The termites got a scale upgrade later on.
Gravis marines are EASILY the best looking marines
Aggressors are some of the coolest space marine units around bolt storm gauntlets and fragstorms are great
I think you're overlooking Tor Garadon plus Biologus with Agressors combo in Gladius, given that the shooting buffs benefit Tor more than a standard gravis captain against heavy targets. AP-5 ignoring cover with lethal and sustained at damage 4 is a chance to 1-shot a land raider.
In these ranking vids I'd love to see what he thinks could improve the rating of some of these models.
I really like Heavy Intercessors. A 10-man brick with Tor Garadon in the midfield on an objective is not easy to shift.
I got to admit, Gravis armour does look amazing
Heavy intersessors DO seem oft forgotten? But they again, have served me fine. I alsi enjoy flying Gravis Boys!
I'm playing a game against my friend's Guard list. 50 Heavy Intercessors, Azrael, 10 Sternguard, Apothecary and 3 Repulsor Executioner in Vanguard detachment. 50 Heavy Intercessors are HARD to chew through. And their guns are pretty decent at destroying light guard infantry and not bad against Chimeras.
Still would love a Gravis unit that is more focused like the Gravis
Captain.
Shooting plus melee + extra attacks. Would be a very fun unit to play with.
Really surprised we haven’t gotten a more close combat inceptors variant yet
I fucking wish I could run iron father ferros in my blood angels leading a full squad of aggressors in the sons of Sanguinius detachment backed up by a brutalis dread
I see gravis, I watch gravis. GW, more gavis please
More Phobos too. I love tacticus, but they made these new armor variants and then did relatively little with them.
I love Gravis armor. They feel like real marines and not paper mache like the normal stat line.
I keep forgetting that the comparisons are made for 2k pt games because at 1k points, units like the Heavy Intercessor could be worth their weight in gold if in enough quantities played well.
I have a Gravis Captain. I made the foolish mistake of trying to base my Dark Angels battle list on the Vengeful Brethren Combat Patrol. Until I realized that the Captain was basically worthless. Maybe I could give it to one of my club members to build a Black Templars army.
The forst time i used my inceptors, dropped in my brothers backline (Necrons) they scored a secondary, shot next turn with supercharged plasma. I rolled three 1's on my hazardous check and they were dead. It was hilarious 😂
Can I just say my ONE issue with Gravis? It's that stupid skew that the Prefix-storm gauntlets have on their attached weapons. It's a power fist, great. But it has a box attached to the ONE PART that would get in the way of both a backhand AND hammer fist blow.
Grey Knights, Angelus bolter, Pedro Kantor with their weapon mounted on the back of the hand? Good.
Gauntlets Of Ultramar, Hand Of Dominion with the weapon mounted below the palm? Awesome.
Gauntlets Of The Forge with the flamer mounted on the inside of the palm? Great.
Storm gauntlets? Nah nah we gotta have it at an angle. WHY?!
We need traitor gravis, just imagine berserker aggressors, or mutated plague interceptors
One thing I do not understand. Gravis armour get one W more than other marines in cost of less M. Tell me if I am wrong but Phobos should get -1 to Sv and +1 to move. It would give more to Vibe of a game :) cheers and thanks for Video
In general, as for me, Gravis Armor is ideal for Salamanders
agressors
Gravis armor is the reason I picked up Space Marines as an army. Heavy Intercessors and Aggressors are my favorite sculpts.
Heavy Intercessors really shine in Anvil Siege Force. Give them a Biologis for Lethal Hits. Put them on an Objective and they have a 2+ save vs damage 1. If they stand still they get +1 to hit and wound. Use Battle Drill recall on them whiel they aare standing still and it all clicks. Sustained Hits 1, Lethal Hits, Crits on 5. +1 to Hit and Wound, Rerolls to Hit on Oath of Moment. They start churning out the dakka. The problem I find is they shine in Anvil Siege Force and so do Eradicators. Aggressors and Inceptors don't. There is no one great detachment for all Gravis. If All Gravis units counted as having full benefits of the Heavy keyword then you would have a MURDEROUS detachment.
Wish SM had some sort of way to play in gravis armour like Calgars.
combi weapon gauntlet have the range weapon on top of fist is kind of counter intuitive imho. In a melee scenario, wouldn't blocking enemy melee or punching risk damaging the barrel of the range weapon ? It would makes more sense if it's under the fist instead of over it. You can still block and punch without damage the range weapon barrel.
And consider you can't really aim down sight with a gauntlet weapon compare to a rifle base weapon, feels like the BW should be 4+ instead of 3+. Or make it have shorter range, so there is some trade off between full rifle model and combi weapon gauntlet.
Well only minus with gravis is you only get +1T and usually only 3+ armour. Were terminators have 2+ save and 4+ invul. Lower Toughness but if you meet speciel weapons and high str you are screwed anyway...then i prefer my +4 invul.😅
I'm still disappointed by no gravis lieutenant or chaplain after all these years.
I think we just need a dedicated gravis melee unit with shields and a gravis chaplain
Love the channel. I do wish you'd consider switching the background from black on white to white on black (or another darker color.). The white is just a bit bland and very bright.
Still waiting for Heavy Assault İntercessors and Grav weapon team with gravis armour.
You too?
I'm not waiting. I already figured out how to make grav weapons work and I'm homebrewing it all.
Want more HV Weapons Gravis troops..
i did not realize or appreciate that Gravis Armor is T6... that's tougher than Terminator Armor! *And* they also get 3 wounds???
I get that their save is only 3+ and not 2+ but it seems like in a lot of ways, Gravis units just kind of obsolete Terminators? Especially when there are so many variants like 10" speed inceptors. Huh. EDIT: I suppose I am undervaluing the 4++...
I got so sick of gw leaving gravis out to dry so often i decided to make a full company command in gravis armour. They should look great in my gravis army.
T6 Baaaaaaaby!!
I know the Gravis Apothecary is more or less a Lieutenant and is really good but I would have killed for an honest to God Emperor Apothecary. Yes it would have made any squad their attached to insane to try and kill but just make it a little expensive to buy into.
If they aren't going to give us that, a Chaplain, Inceptor Captain, or Librarian are top on my demands.
Also, return Heavy Bolt rifles to 2 damage. I don't care if the points need to go up a bit to compensate, it's asinine to me that you took the heavy MEQ killer weapon and made them no different to the regular rifle on 9th.
@@Butterwinkle They did that will all the weapon variants. I can promise you they aren't going to let you have a S5, AP-1, 2-shot-base gun that you can advance and shoot on a 3+ or stay still and hit on a 2+ do D2 AND cost 20 ppm.
hell yeah chunky bois
For a gravis captain that will fill a more balanced roll, would you take the captain with the gauntlet/ power fist or the gravis with a heavy bolt rifle?
Calgar's guards can't tank hits on behalf of a led unit like aggressors. They can do it for calgar himself, but without precision they can't take saves over the unit they're leading
I really like the aesthetic of gravis armour but I think many of the units are too costly right now. It also just doesn't hold up as well compared to other stuff like termis or bladeguard because it lacks neither the 2+ or the 4+ invul. Eradicators are decent and Heavy intercessors are decent but Inceptors are very costly and just seem to die most of the time once you use them once or blow themselves up from overcharging and aggressors just aren't worth the points imo. Lack of character support doesn't help either, you basically have the lethal hit biologis and the captain who doesn't really buff the unit, then a few niche special characters.
Hope u do one for the Phobos bois
I like both Gravis and Phobos units.
Gravis units fit perfectly to my vision of chunky Sallies. 👌
We all know about the Gladius combo using "Fire Discipline/Apothecary Biologis/Aggressors". What would happen if Heavy Intercessors were used instead of Aggressors? I suspect the shooting damage output would be roughly the same, but the unit would be more durable, because ten chonky intercessors survive longer than six aggressors. Would you please compare the two?
Good luck getting those 10 HI where they need to go to make use of that combo though. With the amount of terrain generally used (especially in tournaments), they'll be lucky to get one turn of it before something melees them. And good luck with that as GW in its infinite wisdom decided not to give the sgt. a powerfist.
@@JimH.
FIRST: I don't play competitive. The local competitive players are not nice people and contributed to the negative reputation Warhammer has.
SECOND: Heavy Intercessors have assault weapons. I get to the board center in the second turn without an issue.
THIRD: I play Gladius. I can either use a command point and step away from an enemy OR use Tactical Doctrine.
I'd really like to see the math on how this very durable and low points unit would do with the "Fire Discipline/Apothecary" combo.
@@bearnolen3584 It still remains a suboptimal use of the Biologis, but it's your game and you play it how you wish. I'm not sure if I'd call 285 points "low" but by all means try it out.
@JimH. exactly how suboptimal is my question. The Admin is a numbers guy. I'm not. I'm just trying to get good info to make an informed decision.
@@bearnolen3584 Well, we can do some napkin math here. 10 HI is 20 shots at S5, AP-1, D1. The Biologis with enhancement adds lethal and sustained both on 5's. Using Storm of Fire ignores cover and makes them AP-2.
For purposes here, we will NOT be using Oath of Moment.
20 shots with a d6 means you will get 3.33 of every die possibility: 3.33 1's, 3.33 2's, etc. 5's and 6's get you sustained 1 and lethal which gives us 6.67 extra hits and of those original 20, 6.67 are auto wounds.
If moving there are 6.67 misses (1's and 2's) and if stationary, 3.33 misses (1's only).
Thus, our moving results should be 6.67 misses and 13.33 hits + 6.67 sustained hits (20), 6.67 of which auto-wound.
Our stationary should be 3.33 misses and 16.67 hits + 6.67 sustained hits (23.33), 6.67 auto wound.
Wounding depends entirely on the target's toughness, but we'll use T4 as a starting point since it's pretty common.
S5 will wound T4 on a 3+ and we already have 6.67 auto wounds.
Moving gets us 6.67 3's and 4's and the 6.67 sustained for 13.33 wounds. Add the previous 6.67 auto wounds for a total of 20 wounds.
Stationary gets us 10 2's, 3's and 4's and the 6.67 sustained for 16.67 wounds. Add in the lethal hits and it's 23.33 wounds.
Against a 3+ save that's reduced to a 5+ (from the AP-2), that means 2/3 of their saves would fail. Moving means 13.33 failed saves and stationary means 15.55 failed saves.
Let's assume said target uses some form of Armor of Contempt stratagem and now saves on a 4+. The numbers remain the same except for them now failing only half their saves. This gets us 10 failed saves moving or 11.66 stationary failed saves.
So basically, against SM equivalents, you're netting between 5 and 7 dead.
I'm not going to go over every single possibility like AT does, but I'm pretty sure (feel free to math-check me, I may have made an error somewhere) this is a good approximation.
Love the Gravis armour look, it's just so silly ... but so cool! The chonky Heavy Intercessors might be a little "meh" on the table top, but there's something about a T6 3W squad that just hits the spot. Even better when they had access to SiA, but guess we're not allowed to have fun like that these days.
Big chunk
Yes, my chonky boys.
I think Feros is better than he looks. Put him with 10 heavy intercessors, then walk him up the board and park him on the midfeid with a dreadnaught parked on his ass
Or better yet, infiltrate him there from the start of the game. Very hard to shift
where are my melee jump pack Gravis units. or better yet, just give me Sword Brethren in Gravis armor and give em a new Gravis Fighting Style ability
Inceptor are so goofy 😂
Aggressors on the other hand are badass
Two words: Disco boots.
I think Gravis is cool but I can't really justify the cost. Maybe if I was primarily playing Space Marines but they're my second army after T'au, so I'm trying to get by with converted firstborn/30k models where possible and the idea of paying 3x as much per model seems kinda crazy.
still want to take aggressors and eradicators in units of 5 or 10.
the 6 man squads (with characters) don't really fit in transports, and 6 man squads put them in a weird place vs other large squads of elites units (like terminators).
it would be easier to do with a points per model system but we currently don't have that.
also their lack of melee does put their durability in a strange spot.
also a note on the gravis characters, Named characters are less dependent on the buffs they individually give and the opportunity costs associated with taking them. Fierros locks you out of many amazing character and unit options, when you could get a tach marine for cheaper and do his job just as well. These single character faction units have not been pointed for their opportunity cost, and the fact that you get nothing but that character for selecting iron hands (when in past editions you would have had an army wide feel no pain, now you have nothing, it is just a down grade when compared to ultra marines, templars, dark angels, or other major sub-factions.).
The changes made to the repulsors transport capacity were so they can take exactly 6 gravis marines with a single character.
@@Koolmees12 they count as 2 slots though, so it really would just be hauling 1 3 man squad.
@@notknightbean ?? Standard repulsor and land raider redeemer have 14 slots available. That's 6 (2 slots each) gravis plus a character
@@Koolmees12 no you are correct.
I waS thinking of another transport. The impulsor.
BAwill be so bad if they don't have large points. Will they overcurrent like orks or undercurrent like sisters.
I'll be honest I never understood what gravis armor was