Particularly the new models, they just look so much better than the aggressors and centurions. I suspect GW originally wanted to replace them with Primaris models but people just like them too much.
Aggressors having those weapons mounted on the already big powerfist on their already big armor looks off to me, so I can't wait for assault terms to return
Apologies haha, I was getting a bit of calculation burn out. They're a LITTLE better than the boltstorm against most targets, but generally close enough in numbers that the difference isn't hugely significant. I focused on Bolstorm for this one as it's a bit more commonly run due to the range unless in firestorm. There's a damage breakdown in my previous aggressor video here if interested though ua-cam.com/video/ifuRBe6sjI4/v-deo.html
They're worth it though, in my subjective opinion, for anyone with a knack for kitbashing. Obviously, spare parts are also on the market too. In particular, I love using Centurion helmeted heads for Primaris conversions, and helmet-less heads can be useful too. Lot's of parts and ideas, really, if you have the mind and patience for it
Aggressors are the unit I learned to love. I had never heard of them before and they're just so, so fun and strong! I kinda feel like they outclass everyone else in gladius.
unless you are one of the 6 premium chapters he mentioned at 15:44 it feels pretty stale. My iron hands are sad they no longer have a feel no pain, but they can at least copy templars.
Space wolves not only have their funky Terminator squad with some interesting weapon combinations, they get a lieutenant equivalent for lethal hits access. They can also be built like standard assault Terminators, but with a much more useful ability.
Yeah, SW have the best terminators now. Sadly, it seems that with their next range refresh, this unique squads of terminators will wanish just as their DA brethren did 😕.
I run with the rule of cool and since terminators are one of the things that got me into the hobby/game I run a lot of them where I can. Mostly older sculpts, dont have any primaris scale squads yet.
I love running a Spartian in casual games with my 6 Assault Centurions. with its 28 troop capacity it can transport the full squad of Centurions and 5 Terminators
You kind sir make some the best videos for Warhammer 40k. Seriously i type in something i think nobody would describe or make a video about and sure enough every single time your videos pop up with the answer 😂😂😂. Absolutely amazing much appreciated
Assault Centurions are fun in Sons of Sanguinius, +1 A is huge on something with just 3 attacks that then gets sustained 2 as well. Against monsters and vehicles on the charge they can kill most things, if you red rampage as well they will brutalise things. Issue is delivery you basically have to use a Land Raider and can only fit 3 of them, so you need a 240+ vehicles for a 150 pt unit.
I freely admit I'm biased as gravis units (especially the Captain and Aggressors) are my favorite thing in 40k, but I'm still trying to fathom how Aggressors are more expensive than any other terminator in the game except for Deathshroud which they are equal to. T6 is their only advantage and it isn't much. Offensively they are good IF you can get them where they need to go but defensively they are way behind. Terminators having a 2+/4++ and teleport and somehow being cheaper than Aggressors with their 3+ and nothing else is shocking. It's utterly mind blowing when you look at what Deathshroud can do for the same points. Aggressors were over costed at the start of 10th then received not one but two points increases, due I'm sure to the firestorm combo. But in order to pull off that combo, it requires at least one if not two characters attached, putting the unit over 400 points. Given you can see that combo coming miles away, it becomes a very juicy target for your opponent. I would argue that Aggressors (currently 40 ppm) really should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 28-30 ppm given their lack of defensive stats and limited movement options. Failing that, they need either an invulnerable save or some other defensive ability like -1 damage to justify their exorbitant cost.
@@whitewall2253 You grossly underestimate durability. T6 and 3W with a 3+ save is not hard to kill and given their only movement options barring vanguard shenanigans cost 230-260 points, getting those twin-linked power fists to where they can be used isn't easy. All that "disgusting S4 shooting" is only 18" and doesn't do much unless it's used in Gladius or Firestorm combos that cost even more. Bottom line, they are still incredibly over costed for what they do. When compared with the units I mentioned in my original comment, the disparity is even more obvious.
@@JimH. I haven't underestimated anything, you're missing the forest for the trees. 3 Aggressors at 18" inflict 4.6 wounds to a marine equiv at 18" assuming their ability triggers and their targets have no cover, the ideal scenario for a unit. outside of the ideal scenario they deal almost exactly 3 wounds. 5 loyalist terminators with a cyclone missile launcher and 5 storm bolters will deal 3.1 wounds worth of damage to a marine equiv at 12" the ideal scenario for a unit. comparing ideal scenario to ideal scenario 3 agressors outperform 5 terminators at shooting by about 50% 3 aggressors are 120 points, 5 terminators are 175, problem, terminators can deepstrike, aggressors have to outflank, Terminators have more strategic mobility and can more easily arrive at their ideal scenario. Me personally, I think this is ok, models don't have to be direct peers of one another, Aggressors can effectively constrain the opponents deployment with outflanking and their flamers are a fairly effective overwatch threat. lets say there is a problem though, lets say we have to fix it, the answer isn't in a price decrease, even at 40 points per model aggressor shooting is quite efficient for infantry killing within the confines of space marines, any infantry model in threat range of the buggers is in for a world of hurt even at current price, I could see a 5 point drop but you'd be having a giraffe at 30 ppm aggressors. durability boosts aren't the answer either, being able to control aggressor deployment with damage 3 weapons is the only real counterplay to the buggers removing fistfuls of T3 infantry every shooting phase, -1 damage would be a god damn nightmare. the easiest answer is a mobility fix. let aggressors board drop pods.
@@whitewall2253 No I'm not missing anything. You're cherry-picking ideal scenarios and saying "Aggressors are better at shooting." I don't disagree with this, but cherry-picking ideal conditions isn't a good measure of how units should be priced. If they don't make it to that range because they're shot off the board, easily doable with their lack of defense, then the scenario is moot. Even if they do make it in range, that +50% performance still requires multiple things (as you stated) to perform optimally. In ANY scenario, including the ideal one, Aggressors are light years easier to kill. At the 10th ed. launch, pre-codex when Aggressors were 100 points for 3 and OoM was reroll everything, SM had something like a 44% win rate. When they were 110 points for 3 and OoM was nerfed, it dropped to around 41%. Now at 120 points we're something like 42%. While it's obvious you've been on the receiving end of some Aggressor shooting and aren't a fan, none of the changes I suggested are going to put SM into the 50%+ win-bracket. Clearly this is going to be an agree to disagree situation but for sake of argument, let's rule out the -1D idea and stick to points. I'm assuming "having a giraffe" is British for insane or something akin to that, but they were 30 ppm at the end of 9th and not breaking anything. No one "had a giraffe" about it back then. My point remains however: 40 ppm is simply way too much for something that, while deadly in the right situations, dies if you look at it funny. If they remain this cost, then they need something, either an invulnerable (5++ would be fine so it doesn't eclipse terminators), a damage decrease or a teleport. I don't think drop pods will work because GW seems intent on phasing out firstborn and it would be fairly lore breaking as it is.
@@JimH. there is nothing lore breaking about the faction that is famous for the deployment of orbital drop pods using orbital drop pods, they didn't phase out terminators did they? Irregardless, I could see 35 point aggressors, that said a 5++ would be completely useless. How often do people shoot you with AP-3+ with ignores cover? A 5++ would only be relevant in the Tau match up. As for ideal scenarios, even in non ideal shooting 3 aggressors still match 5 terminators when the terminators still have ideal shooting while being 55 points cheaper, they're a significantly more effective shooting platform. They're also one of the better anti horde options for space Marines, 3 aggressors will pick up 10 guardsmen/gaunts in a single shooting phase and as you have said they're quite good in "salamander" lists. If your worried about them getting shot off of the board just outflank them. I'm a bit cautious about letting them ride in an impulsor because of the firing points but that's would also work.
I'd list a potential 'con' for the Centurions is that they are likely on borrowed time; one of the few remaining units from the Firstborn/ Pre-Primaris era; while they are arguably more unique than others which is why we've seen them stick as long as they have. It's almost a certainty that they are up there on the chopping block with the Tactical and Devastator squads. The lack of any character support options whatsoever is already indicative of this.
Nice video, it would be great to have the same kind of comparison for all "elite" units of each army such as Possessed / Terminators / Chosen in CSM or Genestealers / Tyranid Warriors / Tyran Guard, etc. please !
@@LordCrate-du8zm My local group has come to know the Tor Hateball- boltstorm aggressors with him and a biologis, which just hurts so much in any detachment when delivered by a Crusader.
I like running the agressors with a captain and flamestorms. I use the Blood Angels and dev wound flamer strat to deepstrike them and unload with the dev wound flamers rerolling wounds.
Terminators + termi Librarian with artisan of war (gives +1 AP his weapons) in Sons of Sanguinius is brutal. 270 pts for the unit, the Librarians focused smite goes to D6 attacks, S6, AP3, D3 damage with sustained, his axe or whatever goes to 5A, S8, AP2, D3 damage on the charge. Then if you oath the target and red rampage, the terminators will be 20 S10 AP2 D2 power fist attacks, hitting on 2s, with +1 to wound, sustained and lethals. They will easily overkill a Land Raider in one turn.
I've largely been running my CSM and Crons in 10th, so my Wolves havent had many outings, but I've been surprised all edition the fact that Wolves have a Terminator Lieutenant gets noticed and played quite so rarely. Could easily see a gladius list with 2 bricks of terminators, one led by logan + battle leader (maybe with honour vehement), and the second led by a captain for free strats and battle leader with fire discipline. Those units will slap, have mixed range and melee, longer threat range than usual especially in gladius and are quite tanky. Throw in the usual mix of scouts/inceptors/infiltrators of your choice + some jump/assault intercessors and a few fire base options and i think you've got a pretty well rounded list.
I love the Centurions so much, but they are too expensive, even if they are not bad (tough and good damage output), but lack an invulv or FnP... I am sure, they will rotate out with a new codex, as they are still firstborn and Agressors do similar things...
I would like to see Bladeguard Veterans put into a chart like this. They won't have shooting, but at 30PPM, they're by far the cheapest option and hit remarkably well for that. Toughness is low, but having an invuln can go a long way.
Shame they won't undo the nerf to ignore modifiers on oath target for terminators. Would also be nice if they came down again in points further since they're inherently less killy or just go up in toughness.
Played vanguard with the aggressor marneus biologis infiltration brick AND two units of terminators deep striking. The terminators can take advantage of the strat to get them.back into reserve ready for further deep strikes so they can get where they're needed...
I play firestorm so flamer equipped aggressors with the captain has been my staple unit and it’s so good. I’ve transported in a LRR and they hop out and murder whatever I intended to and I’ve even walked them up the board behind everything and crashed them into a swarmlord and killed him upon contact, they’re very good but the 3+ with no invuln makes them a unit that’s very susceptible to die in the crack back versus shooting or being charged into next turn
You missed one big combo for assault centurions. If you bring uriel ventris (ultramarines) you can give them the deep strike key word, all of a sudden they're not so slow. Nothing inspires fear like rapid ingressing 6 assault centurions right behind a wall where your opponents tanks are.
Played Deathwing Assault plus a terminator chaplain on the knights and a repulsor executioner against the SM half of Leviathan with the dreadnought swapped for 6 boltstorm aggressors. The knights and chaplain using the deathwing assault enhancement took all but the Apothecary Biologis and a single Aggressor in turn 1. I like Aggressors but I just cannot deny the durability of terminators.
Terminators are cool, But Setting aside all the baggage they have, I really do love the look of the aggressors with their back mounted mortars and the double powerfist. They look heavy, but they also look like you can stip them on a chokepoint and they will reduce everything to ashes.
Centurions desperately need a scale update, same they did with Termies. They should be considerably bigger than Aggressors. Just call them "Primaris Centurions" or something.
Personally I think centurions should be classed as vehicles, so unable to use transports - those big chonky boys aren't going to fit inside a land raider - they're using warsuits rather than armour
I've made a list for a casual 2K points tournament at my local club. The list contains 10 regular Terminators with powerfists and cyclone missile launchers. I play them in firestorm assault force. Attached to the unit I have a terminator captain with a powerfist and a terminator ancient with twin lightning-claws (Kit-bashed). The terminator captain has the 15 pts "forged in battle" enhancement which allows me to once per turn flip a hit roll or save roll into a 6. During my own turn I flip any missed cyclone missiles into a hit, during my opponents turn I auto-pass 1 save that would kill a terminator. The a Captain gives re-roll charges and access to the +1 to wound stratagem for free. The ancient gives a lot of damage buffs and also makes all models OC 2, for a total of OC 24 if all models are alive and standing on an objective. I haven't tested this with the ancient included but with the captain it has already proven to be quite potent. The squad is 535 points so roughly 1/4 of my army but it is so satisfying to play for the funsies XD.
also the +1 to strength within 12 inches and "assault" keyword makes the storm bolters and cyclone missile launchers really fun to play with. S5 storm-bolters and S10 Krack rockets makes the terminators shooting really enjoyable. Also the potential of walking 11 inches and shooting with terminators is pretty nuts ngl.
I think I’m the only one who thinks Centurions are actually kinda cool and fit the aesthetic and lore much more than Primaris stuff and a lot of the newer walkers that are just a bit too clean (looking at you sister’s walkers)
If you were going to make the absolutely most shooting focused army you could do, what would it be? Which detachment. No melee units at all. Straight shooting firepower!
Might look dumb, but Assault Terminators are still a thing? Did they just not make this list because they don't shoot? Just want to make sure I am on the right page, because Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield is still memories I enjoy. So, I'm personally a big fan of Terminators. It really made me a bit sad when some of them I guess just stopped being as good? I like them in OS, for Thousand Sons, and think it's odd that Death Guard get two varieties, but only one is good. Was annoyed that, at least right now, there's really no place in World Eaters for Red Butchers, and it's neat to see them for other Legions, but they rarely do anything that special. For the Astartes, they're a role I want to be good; especially the Assault Terminators. A unit that can drop in, close to an enemy, and weather one round of shots, before then wading in, and deleting them, is one of my favorite things for Space Marines, but they just don't seem as likely to deliver that, sadly.
Terminators are very meh for the cost. Storm bolters could do with a change imo. I use Aggressors with Calgar and Biologis as my main punch. Large investment but very versatile unit.
I noticed Imperial Fists didn't make into the Chapter variants. Was there a reason for that? I would think all 3 unit types would perform incredibly well in an IF anvil seige detachment
I'm running such a list at the moment. Anvil Siege + Lysander + terminators; Tor Guaradon with Heavy Intercessors as bodyguard. Another terminator squad with the chaplain. I'm liking it so far.
as someone with all 3 the aggressors are most damaging over a game (the captain is great too), terminators are the toughest (2+ and 4++ is so so nice) and centurions are a 1 shot wonder (turn up, kill something and get lascannoned). overall i think the aggressors just about win out for competitive play because of the land raider redeemer being good. if you’re not planning on using it then i would take terminators for the tankiness
My issue with aggressors is cost, using them in other detachment or faction you are still paying for gladius/boltstorm crimes and I think 40ppm is too much, especially as they are not that survivable (3+ and no invul means plasmas, meltas etc. pick them up too easily), especially with some character buff, you are talking a near 300 pt unit that you then need some sort of transport for, which then pushes them to basically 500 points plus.
I run a 10 man assault terminators with captain as my mid field push/hold. They very rarely get wiped and score 30 + points a game. 40 wounds 2+ 4++ with cover and AOC for free
I feel like I would only compare Aggressors and Assault Centurions due to terminators kind of being a completely different kind of unit. That said, I love my assault centurions because they are objectively stronger and more versatile than aggressors while being only a few more points.
vary interesting, i run 6Agg with Tor Garidon and an Apoth in the land raider. with lysader and 5 assoalts and another unit of 5 normal terms in deep strike
Why does everyone sleep on the Terminators with Wolf Guard Battle Leader and Fire Discipline combo? It might get no extra AP or Wound Rerolls but with Oath it will shred everything.
Okay so I have looked everywhere for specifically Anti- Swarm units, all I see are Anti-Tank in any of the search engines. Is there any chance you can do or point me to an already provided video showing best units for specific tasks. Anti-Tank is all over the place, Quick response done, so Anti-Swarm as I am considering, the cliche Flamer Unit, Aggressors, Or Wolven. Being Thunder Hammers have been Nurfed, it makes a harder sell.
At present i had aggressors in my army all edition. After the last points update id say 6 man aggressors are, despite being still strong, are way too expensive. 6 aggressors are 240 atm, 5 terms are 175. 65 points in the difference is very hefty. Putting aggressors with a cap and redeemer is 580 points. Or 585 in gladius for fire discipline on a biologis. Im currently having more success with a brick of 10 terms with a chaplain in gladius, rapid ingressing for free onto the teleport homer you place before battle. Then you go assault doctrine giving the terms advance and charge. Instead of aggressors i run 6 eradicators with fire discipline on a biologis, lethal sustain with full rerolls v vehicles n monsters. Adding on the storm of fire strat you get ignore cover or ignore cover and bonus ap in dev doc it becomes a vehicle killing nightmare. Less general purpose than aggressors, but they squad tactics back into the raider for safety when enemies get within 9 of you. And i dont see 6 aggressors killing 3 ctan whereas my eradicators did. Aggressors need to earn back so much value and often theyre not getting that in 1 turn as they incredibly vulnerable as a "get in the opponents face" unit once they kill 1 thing
Wait a minute - when someone targets a squad of aggressors led by Calgar, I can allocate the damage and saves to the Vitrix first instead of the Aggressors??
Yes, Calgar is the character and not the body guard. You'll want to keep one guard alive at least, gets 4+++ vs precision. Been thinking about trying Calgar with 10 Sternguard and and Apoth. Apoth can rez one Guard each turn. That said, the squad is prob going to be wiped out fast if they are foot slogging up the board.
I wouldn't classify Aggressors and Centurions as an elite unit, they are heavy breaching infantry rather than elite. Terminators should be an elite infantry but their stats and equipment puts them is a rather iffy spot - 5 toughness ain't too high, which would be ok if INV save worked like Ward save worked in regular Warhammer, where there was like 1 or 2 units in the entire army book with it, never more than 4+ but it was unaffected by anything, meaning that the unit was really an elite... Here, combi-weapons, dev wound and MW negate that save entirely and unit instantly becomes an extremely expensive infantry. Weapon wise, they sux. Storm Bolters are awful - no stopping power, no armour modification, even though they are described as shreading through infantry, even marines with ease. Instead of weak Rapid Fire, they should have Anti-infantry 4+ with Dev wounds to reflect it's strength and the fact, that only Termies and chosen officers might have it, if they - for some stupid reason - don't have combi-weapons anymore. Their special weapon options are weak... Cyclone is alright. Heavy Flamer is weak, compared to Sternguard's Pyrecannon which has 6S and D6+1 attacks. Autocannon is worst of the bunch as something designed to cull infantry, it has DW but only on 6+ and just 6 attacks... They could have Plasma Cannon, Multi-melta and Las Cannon as weapon options for elite unit that usually if deployed straight into the fray. Additionally, Termies are hand-picked from the best od the best Brothers in the CHAPER, they should hit on 2+ - shooting and HTH. Lastly, to further reflect CHAPTER'S ELITE status of the unit, player should be limited to field JUST and ONLY, 1 SINGLE unit of them. That's how I see Terminators, they could even cost 500pts. for that squad... Now, they are an extreme disappointment.
Honestly I have always thought that the Aggressors' design just makes more sense for the intended role of these type of units (more durable units meant for decent close range fire and melee engagement) and should have replaced the Terminators so that GW could continue to cull the bloated Space Marine range. I know that would never happen because of all the nostalgia attached to Terminator pattern armor, but the Boltstorm Gauntlets just seem like a more efficient and elegant design than the Powerfist/Storm Bolter loadout. They even have back-mounted grenade launchers to serve as a replacement to Cyclone Missile Launchers.
I laughed hard when you recommended 1st Company, but then you mentioned Belial as an option and I about spit my drink out. Please, never say Belial's name again until 11th edition where they might give him an actual ability and don't charge 10 more points for a model that's worth 1/10 of the cheaper generic options 😂
I honestly don't understand why grey knights terminator squads are so much more expensive (210 vs 175). Sure GKs get a narthecium, but Id rather have in-built rapid ingress with better melee weapons and have those cost considerably less with the exact same defensive profile. Though I'd gladly pay 35pts more if we could just get those goddamn hammers back :( Im sick and tired of dreadknights.
Simple assault intercessors beat all 3 when taken in the right faction/detachment, plus they're cheaper and are battleline. No one play termies anymore outside of dedicated lists, and the other two are used sparingly in quasi-deathstars. Stick to the cheap units imo, you'll get more out of them.
Imo I don’t think any of these are strong picks, even the vanguard infiltrating aggressor brick.. it’s super expensive. 10 jump intercessors are not that much more than 3 aggressors for reference
@@kolosmenus That is exactly what happened, and I still feel they should have nutted up and stuck to the plan. Termies are only carrying on due to pure old player nostalgia and that 4+ invuln save. Without those it would be far more apparent that the other heavy armored troop units make them obsolete.
Terminators also have the benefit of the Rule of Cool
They look so cool marching across a battlefield soaking up damage.
Particularly the new models, they just look so much better than the aggressors and centurions.
I suspect GW originally wanted to replace them with Primaris models but people just like them too much.
@@101Mantthe aggressors and eradicators look pretty sweet imo but it’s the inceptors that are by far one of the worst SM model designs
Aggressors having those weapons mounted on the already big powerfist on their already big armor looks off to me, so I can't wait for assault terms to return
The coolest looking ones are the [LEGENDS] Relic Terminators in Cataphractaii Armor.
Teleporting assualt centurions with blood angels librarian dreadnaught is really fun. Doesnt always work but it is funny.
ive seen a man take Urial Ventris and 6 shooty cents in the vangard detachment. every turn teliporting centurons. deffinitly not fun
@@juggernautq2977That list build came 2nd at the world championships this year.
9" charges though, Libby Dread is better for shooting units, Eradicators, Aggressors maybe, devastator cents etc.
Was* funny
@@LordCrate-du8zm;-;
Oh boy a video about Aggressors, including a damage comparison! Surely the Flamestorm variant will be part of this disc-oh. No yeah that’s cool too.
I was hoping for assault termies in this too, not alone in missing out
It’s probably easier with bolt storm since they are fixed attacks.
@@Kingofdragons117 You could just take an actual?
Apologies haha, I was getting a bit of calculation burn out. They're a LITTLE better than the boltstorm against most targets, but generally close enough in numbers that the difference isn't hugely significant. I focused on Bolstorm for this one as it's a bit more commonly run due to the range unless in firestorm. There's a damage breakdown in my previous aggressor video here if interested though ua-cam.com/video/ifuRBe6sjI4/v-deo.html
@@auspextactics lol it's all good man I was only joking. props to you for putting in the work
I wouldn’t risk buying centurions with the whole getting rid of first born units thing we got going on right now
I love the centurion models so I just have them on 40mm bases and play them as aggressors (who by comparison, not a fan of thier models atall)
I think the centurions are a bit safer than most other models. They dont have the scale issue and are kinda unique enough.
They're worth it though, in my subjective opinion, for anyone with a knack for kitbashing. Obviously, spare parts are also on the market too. In particular, I love using Centurion helmeted heads for Primaris conversions, and helmet-less heads can be useful too. Lot's of parts and ideas, really, if you have the mind and patience for it
For me they'll be kitbashed into Meganobz for my orks if they ever get deleted 😄.
@@DarcyBonoCreationsnice!
Aggressors are the unit I learned to love. I had never heard of them before and they're just so, so fun and strong! I kinda feel like they outclass everyone else in gladius.
Firestorm really helps them too
Always assaulting means getting closer quicker
And then the extra S bump really helps punch up.
So many factions are dying of thirst, while the Space Marines are over here drowning
I hope Eldar get a refresh, kinda want to collect them but they have a lot of stuff that may get updated as soon as I buy it knowing my luck
unless you are one of the 6 premium chapters he mentioned at 15:44 it feels pretty stale.
My iron hands are sad they no longer have a feel no pain, but they can at least copy templars.
Don't worry, I'm sure it's only 16 marine realises before you get a box with one new character
Drowning in crap is the problem.
I always joke that space marines have 'pretty privilege' lol. They legit get all the toys everyone wishes they had.
Space wolves not only have their funky Terminator squad with some interesting weapon combinations, they get a lieutenant equivalent for lethal hits access. They can also be built like standard assault Terminators, but with a much more useful ability.
Yeah, SW have the best terminators now. Sadly, it seems that with their next range refresh, this unique squads of terminators will wanish just as their DA brethren did 😕.
I run with the rule of cool and since terminators are one of the things that got me into the hobby/game I run a lot of them where I can. Mostly older sculpts, dont have any primaris scale squads yet.
I love running a Spartian in casual games with my 6 Assault Centurions. with its 28 troop capacity it can transport the full squad of Centurions and 5 Terminators
I've personally found taking a brick of aggresors and calgar works pretty well
I don't even play marines, but I love the designs of all of them.
feel like the easy mode while admech and guard feel expert ...
You say Terminators, Aggressors and Centurions. I say heavily armed tinned Biomass. Like Beans but lethal
You kind sir make some the best videos for Warhammer 40k. Seriously i type in something i think nobody would describe or make a video about and sure enough every single time your videos pop up with the answer 😂😂😂. Absolutely amazing much appreciated
Eagerly waiting for Jump, Terminator and Gravis Lieutenants which for some reason don’t exist in spite of Lieutenants being a kind of meme model
Love the concept of this breakdown
Assault Centurions are fun in Sons of Sanguinius, +1 A is huge on something with just 3 attacks that then gets sustained 2 as well. Against monsters and vehicles on the charge they can kill most things, if you red rampage as well they will brutalise things. Issue is delivery you basically have to use a Land Raider and can only fit 3 of them, so you need a 240+ vehicles for a 150 pt unit.
Please return my Terminator Lieutenant so I can run Bolter Discipline on the Termies T_T
Play Wolves :)
@@samuraiscimitar theirs will be gone with the Codex probably
The Unforgiven have an offer for you, albeit a Legends one
The new terminators are some of my favourite models. Really wish they were better, so I would not feel so bad every time i play them 😅
I freely admit I'm biased as gravis units (especially the Captain and Aggressors) are my favorite thing in 40k, but I'm still trying to fathom how Aggressors are more expensive than any other terminator in the game except for Deathshroud which they are equal to. T6 is their only advantage and it isn't much. Offensively they are good IF you can get them where they need to go but defensively they are way behind. Terminators having a 2+/4++ and teleport and somehow being cheaper than Aggressors with their 3+ and nothing else is shocking. It's utterly mind blowing when you look at what Deathshroud can do for the same points.
Aggressors were over costed at the start of 10th then received not one but two points increases, due I'm sure to the firestorm combo. But in order to pull off that combo, it requires at least one if not two characters attached, putting the unit over 400 points. Given you can see that combo coming miles away, it becomes a very juicy target for your opponent.
I would argue that Aggressors (currently 40 ppm) really should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 28-30 ppm given their lack of defensive stats and limited movement options. Failing that, they need either an invulnerable save or some other defensive ability like -1 damage to justify their exorbitant cost.
They have twin linked powerfists and a disgusting amount of S4 shooting. They're priced for damage not durability.
@@whitewall2253 You grossly underestimate durability. T6 and 3W with a 3+ save is not hard to kill and given their only movement options barring vanguard shenanigans cost 230-260 points, getting those twin-linked power fists to where they can be used isn't easy. All that "disgusting S4 shooting" is only 18" and doesn't do much unless it's used in Gladius or Firestorm combos that cost even more. Bottom line, they are still incredibly over costed for what they do. When compared with the units I mentioned in my original comment, the disparity is even more obvious.
@@JimH. I haven't underestimated anything, you're missing the forest for the trees.
3 Aggressors at 18" inflict 4.6 wounds to a marine equiv at 18" assuming their ability triggers and their targets have no cover, the ideal scenario for a unit. outside of the ideal scenario they deal almost exactly 3 wounds.
5 loyalist terminators with a cyclone missile launcher and 5 storm bolters will deal 3.1 wounds worth of damage to a marine equiv at 12" the ideal scenario for a unit.
comparing ideal scenario to ideal scenario 3 agressors outperform 5 terminators at shooting by about 50%
3 aggressors are 120 points, 5 terminators are 175,
problem, terminators can deepstrike, aggressors have to outflank, Terminators have more strategic mobility and can more easily arrive at their ideal scenario.
Me personally, I think this is ok, models don't have to be direct peers of one another, Aggressors can effectively constrain the opponents deployment with outflanking and their flamers are a fairly effective overwatch threat.
lets say there is a problem though, lets say we have to fix it, the answer isn't in a price decrease, even at 40 points per model aggressor shooting is quite efficient for infantry killing within the confines of space marines, any infantry model in threat range of the buggers is in for a world of hurt even at current price, I could see a 5 point drop but you'd be having a giraffe at 30 ppm aggressors.
durability boosts aren't the answer either, being able to control aggressor deployment with damage 3 weapons is the only real counterplay to the buggers removing fistfuls of T3 infantry every shooting phase, -1 damage would be a god damn nightmare.
the easiest answer is a mobility fix. let aggressors board drop pods.
@@whitewall2253 No I'm not missing anything. You're cherry-picking ideal scenarios and saying "Aggressors are better at shooting." I don't disagree with this, but cherry-picking ideal conditions isn't a good measure of how units should be priced. If they don't make it to that range because they're shot off the board, easily doable with their lack of defense, then the scenario is moot. Even if they do make it in range, that +50% performance still requires multiple things (as you stated) to perform optimally. In ANY scenario, including the ideal one, Aggressors are light years easier to kill.
At the 10th ed. launch, pre-codex when Aggressors were 100 points for 3 and OoM was reroll everything, SM had something like a 44% win rate. When they were 110 points for 3 and OoM was nerfed, it dropped to around 41%. Now at 120 points we're something like 42%. While it's obvious you've been on the receiving end of some Aggressor shooting and aren't a fan, none of the changes I suggested are going to put SM into the 50%+ win-bracket.
Clearly this is going to be an agree to disagree situation but for sake of argument, let's rule out the -1D idea and stick to points. I'm assuming "having a giraffe" is British for insane or something akin to that, but they were 30 ppm at the end of 9th and not breaking anything. No one "had a giraffe" about it back then. My point remains however: 40 ppm is simply way too much for something that, while deadly in the right situations, dies if you look at it funny. If they remain this cost, then they need something, either an invulnerable (5++ would be fine so it doesn't eclipse terminators), a damage decrease or a teleport. I don't think drop pods will work because GW seems intent on phasing out firstborn and it would be fairly lore breaking as it is.
@@JimH. there is nothing lore breaking about the faction that is famous for the deployment of orbital drop pods using orbital drop pods, they didn't phase out terminators did they?
Irregardless, I could see 35 point aggressors, that said a 5++ would be completely useless. How often do people shoot you with AP-3+ with ignores cover? A 5++ would only be relevant in the Tau match up.
As for ideal scenarios, even in non ideal shooting 3 aggressors still match 5 terminators when the terminators still have ideal shooting while being 55 points cheaper, they're a significantly more effective shooting platform.
They're also one of the better anti horde options for space Marines, 3 aggressors will pick up 10 guardsmen/gaunts in a single shooting phase and as you have said they're quite good in "salamander" lists.
If your worried about them getting shot off of the board just outflank them. I'm a bit cautious about letting them ride in an impulsor because of the firing points but that's would also work.
I'd list a potential 'con' for the Centurions is that they are likely on borrowed time; one of the few remaining units from the Firstborn/ Pre-Primaris era; while they are arguably more unique than others which is why we've seen them stick as long as they have. It's almost a certainty that they are up there on the chopping block with the Tactical and Devastator squads. The lack of any character support options whatsoever is already indicative of this.
Nice video, it would be great to have the same kind of comparison for all "elite" units of each army such as Possessed / Terminators / Chosen in CSM or Genestealers / Tyranid Warriors / Tyran Guard, etc. please !
This is how you see a range is bloated, 3 different units that fill up the same role but in a slightly different way
Blood angels Librarian Dreadnoughts are incredibly good with all of these units.
In order to prevent buying too much too fast I'm following a primaris only rule for my Dark Angels. Centurions though, they make me wanna cheat...
It sucks that Anvil Siege Force is basically always ignored when discussing detachment buffs.
On another note, Tor Garadon wasn’t mentioned either, despite granting some pretty decent buffs to his unit.
@@LordCrate-du8zmand Iron Father Feirros
@@spaznorcrest Imma be honest I forgot he existed.
@@LordCrate-du8zm My local group has come to know the Tor Hateball- boltstorm aggressors with him and a biologis, which just hurts so much in any detachment when delivered by a Crusader.
@@shadowmancy9183 Sounds like fun, I'll be trying it for sure!
great thing, also talking through the synergies and transport.. good work, thx!!!
We still don't have a Gravis lieutenant
Or a Gravis Librarian, Gravis Tech marine, Gravis Chaplain, Gravis champion, Gravis marine on bike, or Gravis Scouts.
(Jokinggg)
I hear it's not good, but I keep coming up with funny plays for terminators in Inner Circle Task Force detachment.
Flamestorm aggressors with Salamanders with the Firestorm is great
I like running the agressors with a captain and flamestorms. I use the Blood Angels and dev wound flamer strat to deepstrike them and unload with the dev wound flamers rerolling wounds.
I put inceptor helmets on my aggressors
Ooo ima do that now. It's a good look
Terminators + termi Librarian with artisan of war (gives +1 AP his weapons) in Sons of Sanguinius is brutal. 270 pts for the unit, the Librarians focused smite goes to D6 attacks, S6, AP3, D3 damage with sustained, his axe or whatever goes to 5A, S8, AP2, D3 damage on the charge. Then if you oath the target and red rampage, the terminators will be 20 S10 AP2 D2 power fist attacks, hitting on 2s, with +1 to wound, sustained and lethals. They will easily overkill a Land Raider in one turn.
I've largely been running my CSM and Crons in 10th, so my Wolves havent had many outings, but I've been surprised all edition the fact that Wolves have a Terminator Lieutenant gets noticed and played quite so rarely. Could easily see a gladius list with 2 bricks of terminators, one led by logan + battle leader (maybe with honour vehement), and the second led by a captain for free strats and battle leader with fire discipline. Those units will slap, have mixed range and melee, longer threat range than usual especially in gladius and are quite tanky. Throw in the usual mix of scouts/inceptors/infiltrators of your choice + some jump/assault intercessors and a few fire base options and i think you've got a pretty well rounded list.
I love the Centurions so much, but they are too expensive, even if they are not bad (tough and good damage output), but lack an invulv or FnP...
I am sure, they will rotate out with a new codex, as they are still firstborn and Agressors do similar things...
I see your facts and statistics and raise you “terminators are cool”
Just when I thought you were done for the day, here you are, delivering happy endings in digital form. 😂😂 Auspex for Emperor!
Wish my assault centurions would get a glow up
Blood angels make em really scary. Assuming you can get them to combat
Ditto templars make them good thou
The biggest problem is the transport sizing
If you want to take a full 6, you need a Spartan, which is legends.
I ran 2x3 squads to good success. One time I had 2 of them nuke Angron.
I love all 3 units, they are just so chonky and fun
I would like to see Bladeguard Veterans put into a chart like this. They won't have shooting, but at 30PPM, they're by far the cheapest option and hit remarkably well for that. Toughness is low, but having an invuln can go a long way.
Shame they won't undo the nerf to ignore modifiers on oath target for terminators. Would also be nice if they came down again in points further since they're inherently less killy or just go up in toughness.
Played vanguard with the aggressor marneus biologis infiltration brick AND two units of terminators deep striking. The terminators can take advantage of the strat to get them.back into reserve ready for further deep strikes so they can get where they're needed...
Maybe Centurions aren't the mathematically correct choice but they definitely win for being the coolest which is far more important
I love me some Centurions as much as the next man. But you're *deranged,* if you believe that Centurions could ever top Terminator armour.
Really? I've always hated their look. It doesn't appear they'd be able to even walk. Waddle at most, which isn't very intimidating
I must admit mine grew on me after actually assembling the models haha
@@KappaKiller108 If you add enough G I R T H, practicality is irrelivant.
Says the man who runs 9 of them like a lunatic.
Oh man, these units look so cool I F**KING want to get some!😅
I play firestorm so flamer equipped aggressors with the captain has been my staple unit and it’s so good. I’ve transported in a LRR and they hop out and murder whatever I intended to and I’ve even walked them up the board behind everything and crashed them into a swarmlord and killed him upon contact, they’re very good but the 3+ with no invuln makes them a unit that’s very susceptible to die in the crack back versus shooting or being charged into next turn
You missed one big combo for assault centurions. If you bring uriel ventris (ultramarines) you can give them the deep strike key word, all of a sudden they're not so slow. Nothing inspires fear like rapid ingressing 6 assault centurions right behind a wall where your opponents tanks are.
Centurion devastators seem very common in top tier competitive lists, any thoughts on how they compare?
What about Aggressors with Biologist and Tor Garadon?, they will be ignoring cover and the capacity to deal with big things
If Primaris hadn’t come along, or even if they had, it would have been nice to have had captain in centurion armour.
Played Deathwing Assault plus a terminator chaplain on the knights and a repulsor executioner against the SM half of Leviathan with the dreadnought swapped for 6 boltstorm aggressors. The knights and chaplain using the deathwing assault enhancement took all but the Apothecary Biologis and a single Aggressor in turn 1. I like Aggressors but I just cannot deny the durability of terminators.
Terminators are cool, But Setting aside all the baggage they have, I really do love the look of the aggressors with their back mounted mortars and the double powerfist. They look heavy, but they also look like you can stip them on a chokepoint and they will reduce everything to ashes.
Centurions desperately need a scale update, same they did with Termies. They should be considerably bigger than Aggressors. Just call them "Primaris Centurions" or something.
Ah good, the perfect video to know high of these three units I have are the best to take, and then I’ll use them all anyways because CHONK
Personally I think centurions should be classed as vehicles, so unable to use transports - those big chonky boys aren't going to fit inside a land raider - they're using warsuits rather than armour
Also prevents the ridiculous teleporting they can do in vanguard detachment. Infantry they are not.
I did 10-man wolfguard with a captain and ancient under vanguard detachment with the infiltrate enhancement. I found it pretty interesting =D
I've made a list for a casual 2K points tournament at my local club. The list contains 10 regular Terminators with powerfists and cyclone missile launchers. I play them in firestorm assault force. Attached to the unit I have a terminator captain with a powerfist and a terminator ancient with twin lightning-claws (Kit-bashed). The terminator captain has the 15 pts "forged in battle" enhancement which allows me to once per turn flip a hit roll or save roll into a 6. During my own turn I flip any missed cyclone missiles into a hit, during my opponents turn I auto-pass 1 save that would kill a terminator. The a Captain gives re-roll charges and access to the +1 to wound stratagem for free. The ancient gives a lot of damage buffs and also makes all models OC 2, for a total of OC 24 if all models are alive and standing on an objective. I haven't tested this with the ancient included but with the captain it has already proven to be quite potent. The squad is 535 points so roughly 1/4 of my army but it is so satisfying to play for the funsies XD.
also the +1 to strength within 12 inches and "assault" keyword makes the storm bolters and cyclone missile launchers really fun to play with. S5 storm-bolters and S10 Krack rockets makes the terminators shooting really enjoyable. Also the potential of walking 11 inches and shooting with terminators is pretty nuts ngl.
I think I’m the only one who thinks Centurions are actually kinda cool and fit the aesthetic and lore much more than Primaris stuff and a lot of the newer walkers that are just a bit too clean (looking at you sister’s walkers)
Honestly terminators are one of my favorite models.im not an old player started mid to late 9th. I wish they were more competitive.
If you were going to make the absolutely most shooting focused army you could do, what would it be? Which detachment. No melee units at all. Straight shooting firepower!
I think i'd throw heavy intercessors in this as well since they also have bulked up wounds and toughness. . . and why no assault terminators?
what about the Primaris Gamebreakors
They're better than these I hear
Might look dumb, but Assault Terminators are still a thing? Did they just not make this list because they don't shoot? Just want to make sure I am on the right page, because Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield is still memories I enjoy.
So, I'm personally a big fan of Terminators. It really made me a bit sad when some of them I guess just stopped being as good? I like them in OS, for Thousand Sons, and think it's odd that Death Guard get two varieties, but only one is good. Was annoyed that, at least right now, there's really no place in World Eaters for Red Butchers, and it's neat to see them for other Legions, but they rarely do anything that special. For the Astartes, they're a role I want to be good; especially the Assault Terminators. A unit that can drop in, close to an enemy, and weather one round of shots, before then wading in, and deleting them, is one of my favorite things for Space Marines, but they just don't seem as likely to deliver that, sadly.
I like terminators and between their 2+ save, 4++ and the rapid ingress i personally think there quite usable.
Terminators are very meh for the cost. Storm bolters could do with a change imo. I use Aggressors with Calgar and Biologis as my main punch. Large investment but very versatile unit.
6 Centurions + Uriel Ventris deep strike here I come!
And, in Vanguard detachment, you can go back to TP again for 1CP. Deploy, destroy, redeploy, repeat.
Aggressors will never not look dorky, at least they aren't baby carriages
I noticed Imperial Fists didn't make into the Chapter variants. Was there a reason for that? I would think all 3 unit types would perform incredibly well in an IF anvil seige detachment
I'm running such a list at the moment. Anvil Siege + Lysander + terminators; Tor Guaradon with Heavy Intercessors as bodyguard. Another terminator squad with the chaplain. I'm liking it so far.
as someone with all 3 the aggressors are most damaging over a game (the captain is great too), terminators are the toughest (2+ and 4++ is so so nice) and centurions are a 1 shot wonder (turn up, kill something and get lascannoned). overall i think the aggressors just about win out for competitive play because of the land raider redeemer being good. if you’re not planning on using it then i would take terminators for the tankiness
My issue with aggressors is cost, using them in other detachment or faction you are still paying for gladius/boltstorm crimes and I think 40ppm is too much, especially as they are not that survivable (3+ and no invul means plasmas, meltas etc. pick them up too easily), especially with some character buff, you are talking a near 300 pt unit that you then need some sort of transport for, which then pushes them to basically 500 points plus.
I run a 10 man assault terminators with captain as my mid field push/hold. They very rarely get wiped and score 30 + points a game.
40 wounds 2+ 4++ with cover and AOC for free
I feel like I would only compare Aggressors and Assault Centurions due to terminators kind of being a completely different kind of unit. That said, I love my assault centurions because they are objectively stronger and more versatile than aggressors while being only a few more points.
vary interesting, i run 6Agg with Tor Garidon and an Apoth in the land raider. with lysader and 5 assoalts and another unit of 5 normal terms in deep strike
GW tries to replace Terminators with gravis bs. Terminators are so cool, that they refused to go to legends. The "rule of cool" defeats GW.
Why does everyone sleep on the Terminators with Wolf Guard Battle Leader and Fire Discipline combo? It might get no extra AP or Wound Rerolls but with Oath it will shred everything.
Give Terminator Storm Bolters -1 AP, increasing to -2 AP within 1/2 range or 12"
Okay so I have looked everywhere for specifically Anti- Swarm units, all I see are Anti-Tank in any of the search engines. Is there any chance you can do or point me to an already provided video showing best units for specific tasks. Anti-Tank is all over the place, Quick response done, so Anti-Swarm as I am considering, the cliche Flamer Unit, Aggressors, Or Wolven. Being Thunder Hammers have been Nurfed, it makes a harder sell.
At present i had aggressors in my army all edition. After the last points update id say 6 man aggressors are, despite being still strong, are way too expensive.
6 aggressors are 240 atm, 5 terms are 175. 65 points in the difference is very hefty.
Putting aggressors with a cap and redeemer is 580 points. Or 585 in gladius for fire discipline on a biologis.
Im currently having more success with a brick of 10 terms with a chaplain in gladius, rapid ingressing for free onto the teleport homer you place before battle. Then you go assault doctrine giving the terms advance and charge.
Instead of aggressors i run 6 eradicators with fire discipline on a biologis, lethal sustain with full rerolls v vehicles n monsters. Adding on the storm of fire strat you get ignore cover or ignore cover and bonus ap in dev doc it becomes a vehicle killing nightmare. Less general purpose than aggressors, but they squad tactics back into the raider for safety when enemies get within 9 of you. And i dont see 6 aggressors killing 3 ctan whereas my eradicators did.
Aggressors need to earn back so much value and often theyre not getting that in 1 turn as they incredibly vulnerable as a "get in the opponents face" unit once they kill 1 thing
Wait a minute - when someone targets a squad of aggressors led by Calgar, I can allocate the damage and saves to the Vitrix first instead of the Aggressors??
Yes, Calgar is the character and not the body guard. You'll want to keep one guard alive at least, gets 4+++ vs precision. Been thinking about trying Calgar with 10 Sternguard and and Apoth. Apoth can rez one Guard each turn. That said, the squad is prob going to be wiped out fast if they are foot slogging up the board.
Yay space marine content again!
The virgin: I play Centurians because they fit my strategy and enable me to work the game to my advantage.
The Chad: He Chonk
I wouldn't classify Aggressors and Centurions as an elite unit, they are heavy breaching infantry rather than elite.
Terminators should be an elite infantry but their stats and equipment puts them is a rather iffy spot - 5 toughness ain't too high, which would be ok if INV save worked like Ward save worked in regular Warhammer, where there was like 1 or 2 units in the entire army book with it, never more than 4+ but it was unaffected by anything, meaning that the unit was really an elite... Here, combi-weapons, dev wound and MW negate that save entirely and unit instantly becomes an extremely expensive infantry.
Weapon wise, they sux. Storm Bolters are awful - no stopping power, no armour modification, even though they are described as shreading through infantry, even marines with ease.
Instead of weak Rapid Fire, they should have Anti-infantry 4+ with Dev wounds to reflect it's strength and the fact, that only Termies and chosen officers might have it, if they - for some stupid reason - don't have combi-weapons anymore.
Their special weapon options are weak...
Cyclone is alright. Heavy Flamer is weak, compared to Sternguard's Pyrecannon which has 6S and D6+1 attacks. Autocannon is worst of the bunch as something designed to cull infantry, it has DW but only on 6+ and just 6 attacks... They could have Plasma Cannon, Multi-melta and Las Cannon as weapon options for elite unit that usually if deployed straight into the fray.
Additionally, Termies are hand-picked from the best od the best Brothers in the CHAPER, they should hit on 2+ - shooting and HTH.
Lastly, to further reflect CHAPTER'S ELITE status of the unit, player should be limited to field JUST and ONLY, 1 SINGLE unit of them.
That's how I see Terminators, they could even cost 500pts. for that squad... Now, they are an extreme disappointment.
It's been over a decade and I'm still not used to how stupid centurions look.
Right now I would not be surprised if aggressors get legended in 11th
Why does does the DA terminator Sergeant get locked into a sword?
I dedicated most of my dark Angels 4th company to gravis
we need a LT
in termy armour
What transports can Centurions use??? Can i stick 3 in a drop pod?
No. Drop pods can't take Termies, Gravis, Centurian, jump packs, or Wulfen.
Centurians can go in Landraiders, and I believe they can also go in repulsors. They take up 3 slots while Gravis/Termie take up 2.
Looks wise I think aggressors non helmet centurions look lost in that armour
Honestly I have always thought that the Aggressors' design just makes more sense for the intended role of these type of units (more durable units meant for decent close range fire and melee engagement) and should have replaced the Terminators so that GW could continue to cull the bloated Space Marine range. I know that would never happen because of all the nostalgia attached to Terminator pattern armor, but the Boltstorm Gauntlets just seem like a more efficient and elegant design than the Powerfist/Storm Bolter loadout. They even have back-mounted grenade launchers to serve as a replacement to Cyclone Missile Launchers.
I love my Termis 😍
I laughed hard when you recommended 1st Company, but then you mentioned Belial as an option and I about spit my drink out. Please, never say Belial's name again until 11th edition where they might give him an actual ability and don't charge 10 more points for a model that's worth 1/10 of the cheaper generic options 😂
can i not run aggressors with the grenades on the pack with the flamers
I honestly don't understand why grey knights terminator squads are so much more expensive (210 vs 175). Sure GKs get a narthecium, but Id rather have in-built rapid ingress with better melee weapons and have those cost considerably less with the exact same defensive profile. Though I'd gladly pay 35pts more if we could just get those goddamn hammers back :( Im sick and tired of dreadknights.
I represent the eradicator guild
Simple assault intercessors beat all 3 when taken in the right faction/detachment, plus they're cheaper and are battleline. No one play termies anymore outside of dedicated lists, and the other two are used sparingly in quasi-deathstars. Stick to the cheap units imo, you'll get more out of them.
Only 1 of them looks good. Wish they’d scrap the other 2 & just make terminators better w more options.
Imo I don’t think any of these are strong picks, even the vanguard infiltrating aggressor brick.. it’s super expensive. 10 jump intercessors are not that much more than 3 aggressors for reference
terminators need a buff, higher toughness and better storm bolters
Terminators are way cooler end of debate
Hot take: Aggressors were completely unnecessary since the feel like a unnecessary when both Terminators and Centurions exist.
I think GW intended to replace Terminators entirely with Gravis Armor pattern, but fans loved the termies too much
What this one said
@@kolosmenus That is exactly what happened, and I still feel they should have nutted up and stuck to the plan. Termies are only carrying on due to pure old player nostalgia and that 4+ invuln save. Without those it would be far more apparent that the other heavy armored troop units make them obsolete.
@@chinaman8888 nah the new terminators looks way too cool, aggressors look kinda goofy with their two giant hands imo.
I love my Aggresors though.
Can't a landraider crusader transport 5 centurions?