Hey Artur, its a shame we haven't met personally yet, what you are going through is unfortunately a common issue and something I've been preaching to other miata owners for a long time. over the years I have built 5 engines for my car and they ALL had oil consumption issues that I could never fix, some of which blew literally because I couldn't keep up fast enough / missed a check-up. I tried stock pistons with new piston rings, overbore with supertech pistons + rings, nylon valve stem seals, all the tricks in the book and they would all eat a significant amount of oil, my current one is at about 1L per 10 laps ish. I have met countless mx5 owners that all suffer from the same issue on built engines (and more importantly none that don't), so at this point I am convinced that it's not just me but that this is a general problem that just isn't talked about enough. Personally I don't intend to build another one since I'm only doing rotaries now, but if I had to, I would try mounting the block on a fixture plate when boring up. The oil pressure drop under braking is also generally a known issue with mx5 engines due to the oil pan design, it is measurable even on a stock engine. the way I generally mitigated it is by making a flat baffle plate and also slightly overfilling, although when the level gets lower over time, it starts to show first at braking again of course, at which point I refill. my setup also has an oil cooler and a boundary pump with bigger gears/housing. As for how I make sure I stop blowing engines, I put an oil pressure sensor in and connected it to the ecu, programmed it to shut the engine off if the pressure is below a minimum threshold / rpm. I also have a CAN gauge that warns me about pressure drops beforehand so I can refill in time. After all I went through, this has become an absolute necessity for me on all my cars. Current engine did over 200 laps so far and is healthy. BTW I don't have data to prove it, but crank case venting is a small factor on consumption also. when I upgraded to TWO 10mm ID lines, oil consumption rate went down a good amount and it even gave a bump in power, about 5-10km/h up bergwerk! It's important to make sure no bottlenecks are left, including the passages in the valve cover internal maze. I also believe it helps popping oil seals which...happens every now and then. On an unrelated note, maybe you heard about the miata hub failure issues, if not please be aware. it is a thing that mostly people in the USA have experienced, but unfortunately it happened to me a week ago. wheel hub flange broke and popped the wheel off at ~170kmh, absolute nightmare. unfortunately the car is fucked big time atm. hubs were replaced at the beginning of this season. you are going similar speeds so for your own safety please consider upgrading to for example the brofab kit. I could go on about stuff forever, but I deliberately don't do social media much. Hope I see you around sometime dude.
With this much work put into an engine, wouldn't it be better to resolve a problem once and for all, by having main oil pump source oil from a separate, smaller oil tank that is kept topped up but by pumps drying the main oil sump to zero, similarly as surge tank is used in competition type fuelling systems? It's a standard solution in all racing cars. This way it would also be possible to have additional amount of oil in the system, standard in the main sump, and additional liters in the surge.
@Kraid07 Few things from my side: 1. Torque plate. Boring the block up with a torque plate does not seem to be common practice in EU but the few guys I know who are building powerful BPs without issues are using them. I had to get myself a new torque plate as nobody around seems to have one. The block is now ready and engine being assembled. Let's see if it has made any difference on oil consumption. 2. I was able to reduce oil consumption by installing 1.2 mm top ring from b16 on reworked 84mm supertechs to make them fit. It was still eating oil on track but not on the road at least. Until I installed those ARP head studs that is so there is definately a correlation between block distortion and oil consumption. I even tried removing the oil squirters when installing new head studs and obviously it had little to no effect compared to the block distortion. Before that I have tried high tension NPR rings and Wiseco XX rings but that did not help. 3. Crankcase and valve cover ventilation. I am aware of the bigger AN fittings valve cover mod but would never thought it could make such a difference on NA engine. I might just do that although with moderate or low blow-by that should make little difference? 4. Wheel hub/bearing. I assume youre talking about the front ones. I have replaced the old oem hubs with new Timkens as I felt the hubs deflecting during initial breaking phase. I'm glad you're OK mate!
Just replaced both front and rear hubs with the BroFab setup. Great insurance and something that I’ll no longer need to worry about when pushing the car.
@@arturturcu yes a front one failed, it was also a timken unit that I fitted at the beginning of this year! the rears I had already converted to toyota units that I machined myself to fit (same process as the brofab kit)
Hi, you mentioned the ARP studs possibly distorting the block which suggests your engine builder may not be using a honing plate/dummy head when building the engine. If your engine builder/machinist isn't using a honing plate/dummy head when boring, honing, and setting ring gaps then there is performance and quality being left on the table. If you haven't already, it's worth looking into using a honing plate when building the engine. This is mounted and torqued to the block prior to boring and honing to to replicate the same condition as an assembled engine. Boring and measuring with the dummy head in place helps improve the precision of each of the cylinder dimensions with minimal distortion and gives more accuracy when setting ring gaps. It guarantees the cylinders are round and not slightly less round once torqued to your cylinder head. I say this because I rarely see mx5 engines being built with honing plates despite oil consumption being a weakness of a built BP. I guess most don't have access to a honing plate or because of budget, but since you are using Maruha stroker parts this is definitely something to look into. Some high end builds such as Toda Racing short blocks, even heat the block to running temperature before boring and honing for additional accuracy. Of course not essential for most builds but just something to consider.
Yes exactly, the significantly increased oil consumption after installing ARP head studs pointed me in this direction. No, the block originally was not bored with a torque plate and yes, this time the block was bored with it and the studs torqued to spec. You're definately going to hear back from me if this helped.
Great lap, despite the traffic and the 'Porsche-Pace-Car' 😂! Shame to hear about the oil pressure issue. I would be interested to see what the main bearing bearings looked like after a hard run with low oil (perhaps a photo or 2 in your nest video). The stroker kit sounds great (presumably it'll be a 2 litre when you're finished). How much power/torque are you aiming for -as well as reliability of course!! (Great content btw, really like your narration and info. Keep up the great work).
Ah, I've watched a few of your vids in the past but only just saw this one. How is it going? Did you get back on track yet after going full crazy!? haha. Sorry to hear about your engine. My nb track car is stock power atm, I have just been mostly focused on suspension so far. I have a set of ae101 itbs though and some exhaust extractors, light weight flywheel etc, Ideally I want to shave 1.5mm off the head and install some cams. But it is always tricky to know how far to go. I would rather spend my money on track time then on replacing mutliple engines, so reliability is critical. It seems like the most reliable track mx5s are unopened. But my engine will probabably need rebuilding at some point... Anyway, obviously we would all love to have a dry sump etc, but they are very expensive. Have you considered running a accusump?
Yes, so many choices but eventually it is the track time that makes you faster in any car. I am silent as my build did not go as planned and the engine is out and we are machining a new block as we speak. Long story short I had so much blowby on a fresh motor that eventually it blew the dipstick out and the oil cought fire. Luckily no big damage but probably worth its own video. So its now one year wip but Ill be back. I have some interesting observations after looking into the blowby issue and how much oil pressure loss it causes. I do not think a healthy motor needs the accusump but I'm going to route the oil mist from top cover back into the oil pan which shall help with crankcase pressure and hopefully cure the oil pressure drops and might help make more power. PS, imho dont go the head skim route if you want big cams, eventually you will run into valve clearance issue.
@arturturcu ah that is interesting regarding blow by plumbing. Sorry to hear your rebuild didn't go to plan. I hope this new block has good luck! Yes I have spent over 2 years rebuilding all my rusty suspension, (should have taken a good mechanic a few months max lol) so I know the frustration of having your track car in the garage for so long. Yeah i would like to do a proper build with high comp pistons etc, but so many times I have seen when people build engines even when they get good professional help it can still go wrong and ends up needing to be rebuilt before too long. That is why I like the idea of keeping the block totally unopened if possible and only making power by skiming and cams etc. Though as you so you can only go so big on the lift. I think the catcams 274 274 has 9.5mm lift and works OK with 1.5mm skim. But this would need to be checked I'm sure. I'm sure you've seen "quins nb" which popularised that strategy.
Good question indeed and the answer depends on your expectations and priorities. K swap being the more expensive option but you get probably more HP per $. In my case I have already fully built BP head so I have to spend only on the bottom end making it less expensive than a K swap but for much less HP gain.
Hi, I've never really gave it a thought. Oil pickup is at the back so you need mostly to stop the oil splashing to the front and sides. This is how all the baffles that I've seen are set up. Interesting thing that Maruha does not recommend replacing the OEM baffle at the top with more restrictive unit since it can hinder the oil flow back into the pickup part of the sump. www.maruhamotors.co.jp/miata/parts/oilballfe.php
Yo is that rattling metallic sound when on throttle normal? I always thought my NB was broken or something cuz i only hear it on 3rd and 4th gear. Changed my clutch and hydraulics and it still sounds like that
It's not the gearbox but the bronze shifter cup bushing making the noise. I've installed it to improve shifting precision. But I know what you mean, I have the noise during decelleration on 3rd and 4th as well. It is something that seems to come with wear and tear of the gearbox but does not impact its function.
Hey Artur, its a shame we haven't met personally yet, what you are going through is unfortunately a common issue and something I've been preaching to other miata owners for a long time.
over the years I have built 5 engines for my car and they ALL had oil consumption issues that I could never fix, some of which blew literally because I couldn't keep up fast enough / missed a check-up. I tried stock pistons with new piston rings, overbore with supertech pistons + rings, nylon valve stem seals, all the tricks in the book and they would all eat a significant amount of oil, my current one is at about 1L per 10 laps ish. I have met countless mx5 owners that all suffer from the same issue on built engines (and more importantly none that don't), so at this point I am convinced that it's not just me but that this is a general problem that just isn't talked about enough.
Personally I don't intend to build another one since I'm only doing rotaries now, but if I had to, I would try mounting the block on a fixture plate when boring up.
The oil pressure drop under braking is also generally a known issue with mx5 engines due to the oil pan design, it is measurable even on a stock engine. the way I generally mitigated it is by making a flat baffle plate and also slightly overfilling, although when the level gets lower over time, it starts to show first at braking again of course, at which point I refill. my setup also has an oil cooler and a boundary pump with bigger gears/housing.
As for how I make sure I stop blowing engines, I put an oil pressure sensor in and connected it to the ecu, programmed it to shut the engine off if the pressure is below a minimum threshold / rpm. I also have a CAN gauge that warns me about pressure drops beforehand so I can refill in time. After all I went through, this has become an absolute necessity for me on all my cars. Current engine did over 200 laps so far and is healthy.
BTW I don't have data to prove it, but crank case venting is a small factor on consumption also. when I upgraded to TWO 10mm ID lines, oil consumption rate went down a good amount and it even gave a bump in power, about 5-10km/h up bergwerk! It's important to make sure no bottlenecks are left, including the passages in the valve cover internal maze. I also believe it helps popping oil seals which...happens every now and then.
On an unrelated note, maybe you heard about the miata hub failure issues, if not please be aware. it is a thing that mostly people in the USA have experienced, but unfortunately it happened to me a week ago. wheel hub flange broke and popped the wheel off at ~170kmh, absolute nightmare. unfortunately the car is fucked big time atm. hubs were replaced at the beginning of this season. you are going similar speeds so for your own safety please consider upgrading to for example the brofab kit.
I could go on about stuff forever, but I deliberately don't do social media much. Hope I see you around sometime dude.
Hi Kraid. Thanks for sharing, that is pure gold and I'm pinning this down. I'm going to respond to your points later.
With this much work put into an engine, wouldn't it be better to resolve a problem once and for all, by having main oil pump source oil from a separate, smaller oil tank that is kept topped up but by pumps drying the main oil sump to zero, similarly as surge tank is used in competition type fuelling systems? It's a standard solution in all racing cars. This way it would also be possible to have additional amount of oil in the system, standard in the main sump, and additional liters in the surge.
@Kraid07 Few things from my side:
1. Torque plate. Boring the block up with a torque plate does not seem to be common practice in EU but the few guys I know who are building powerful BPs without issues are using them. I had to get myself a new torque plate as nobody around seems to have one. The block is now ready and engine being assembled. Let's see if it has made any difference on oil consumption.
2. I was able to reduce oil consumption by installing 1.2 mm top ring from b16 on reworked 84mm supertechs to make them fit. It was still eating oil on track but not on the road at least. Until I installed those ARP head studs that is so there is definately a correlation between block distortion and oil consumption. I even tried removing the oil squirters when installing new head studs and obviously it had little to no effect compared to the block distortion. Before that I have tried high tension NPR rings and Wiseco XX rings but that did not help.
3. Crankcase and valve cover ventilation. I am aware of the bigger AN fittings valve cover mod but would never thought it could make such a difference on NA engine. I might just do that although with moderate or low blow-by that should make little difference?
4. Wheel hub/bearing. I assume youre talking about the front ones. I have replaced the old oem hubs with new Timkens as I felt the hubs deflecting during initial breaking phase. I'm glad you're OK mate!
Just replaced both front and rear hubs with the BroFab setup. Great insurance and something that I’ll no longer need to worry about when pushing the car.
@@arturturcu yes a front one failed, it was also a timken unit that I fitted at the beginning of this year! the rears I had already converted to toyota units that I machined myself to fit (same process as the brofab kit)
That’s us! At the start and at 5:35. That was some great driving! That Porsche couldn’t shake you 😈
Hi, looking forward to see something from the rebuild. Maruha strocker sounds interesting. Wish you good luck to be on the track again this year.
Great vids mate. Yep would love to see the aftermath of the engine difficulties. What an exciting new build also 👍
Hi, you mentioned the ARP studs possibly distorting the block which suggests your engine builder may not be using a honing plate/dummy head when building the engine.
If your engine builder/machinist isn't using a honing plate/dummy head when boring, honing, and setting ring gaps then there is performance and quality being left on the table. If you haven't already, it's worth looking into using a honing plate when building the engine. This is mounted and torqued to the block prior to boring and honing to to replicate the same condition as an assembled engine.
Boring and measuring with the dummy head in place helps improve the precision of each of the cylinder dimensions with minimal distortion and gives more accuracy when setting ring gaps. It guarantees the cylinders are round and not slightly less round once torqued to your cylinder head.
I say this because I rarely see mx5 engines being built with honing plates despite oil consumption being a weakness of a built BP. I guess most don't have access to a honing plate or because of budget, but since you are using Maruha stroker parts this is definitely something to look into.
Some high end builds such as Toda Racing short blocks, even heat the block to running temperature before boring and honing for additional accuracy. Of course not essential for most builds but just something to consider.
Yes exactly, the significantly increased oil consumption after installing ARP head studs pointed me in this direction. No, the block originally was not bored with a torque plate and yes, this time the block was bored with it and the studs torqued to spec. You're definately going to hear back from me if this helped.
Impressive lap 👍
I hope your mx5 comes back stronger!
Great lap, despite the traffic and the 'Porsche-Pace-Car' 😂! Shame to hear about the oil pressure issue. I would be interested to see what the main bearing bearings looked like after a hard run with low oil (perhaps a photo or 2 in your nest video). The stroker kit sounds great (presumably it'll be a 2 litre when you're finished). How much power/torque are you aiming for -as well as reliability of course!! (Great content btw, really like your narration and info. Keep up the great work).
Thanks Phil, with my head work I should be doing 220HP without ITBs. I'm glad you like it!
Ah, I've watched a few of your vids in the past but only just saw this one. How is it going? Did you get back on track yet after going full crazy!? haha. Sorry to hear about your engine. My nb track car is stock power atm, I have just been mostly focused on suspension so far. I have a set of ae101 itbs though and some exhaust extractors, light weight flywheel etc, Ideally I want to shave 1.5mm off the head and install some cams. But it is always tricky to know how far to go. I would rather spend my money on track time then on replacing mutliple engines, so reliability is critical. It seems like the most reliable track mx5s are unopened. But my engine will probabably need rebuilding at some point... Anyway, obviously we would all love to have a dry sump etc, but they are very expensive. Have you considered running a accusump?
Yes, so many choices but eventually it is the track time that makes you faster in any car. I am silent as my build did not go as planned and the engine is out and we are machining a new block as we speak. Long story short I had so much blowby on a fresh motor that eventually it blew the dipstick out and the oil cought fire. Luckily no big damage but probably worth its own video. So its now one year wip but Ill be back. I have some interesting observations after looking into the blowby issue and how much oil pressure loss it causes. I do not think a healthy motor needs the accusump but I'm going to route the oil mist from top cover back into the oil pan which shall help with crankcase pressure and hopefully cure the oil pressure drops and might help make more power.
PS, imho dont go the head skim route if you want big cams, eventually you will run into valve clearance issue.
@arturturcu ah that is interesting regarding blow by plumbing. Sorry to hear your rebuild didn't go to plan. I hope this new block has good luck!
Yes I have spent over 2 years rebuilding all my rusty suspension, (should have taken a good mechanic a few months max lol) so I know the frustration of having your track car in the garage for so long.
Yeah i would like to do a proper build with high comp pistons etc, but so many times I have seen when people build engines even when they get good professional help it can still go wrong and ends up needing to be rebuilt before too long. That is why I like the idea of keeping the block totally unopened if possible and only making power by skiming and cams etc. Though as you so you can only go so big on the lift. I think the catcams 274 274 has 9.5mm lift and works OK with 1.5mm skim. But this would need to be checked I'm sure. I'm sure you've seen "quins nb" which popularised that strategy.
That purple/silver NC at the start is one of the guys from Mx5Modified.
Good luck with your build. Haven't you considered going K series instead?
Good question indeed and the answer depends on your expectations and priorities. K swap being the more expensive option but you get probably more HP per $. In my case I have already fully built BP head so I have to spend only on the bottom end making it less expensive than a K swap but for much less HP gain.
It looks like you're losing pressure under braking. Isn't the oil pickup at the back of the sump?
Is the sump baffled fore and aft?
Hi, I've never really gave it a thought. Oil pickup is at the back so you need mostly to stop the oil splashing to the front and sides. This is how all the baffles that I've seen are set up. Interesting thing that Maruha does not recommend replacing the OEM baffle at the top with more restrictive unit since it can hinder the oil flow back into the pickup part of the sump. www.maruhamotors.co.jp/miata/parts/oilballfe.php
Yo is that rattling metallic sound when on throttle normal? I always thought my NB was broken or something cuz i only hear it on 3rd and 4th gear. Changed my clutch and hydraulics and it still sounds like that
It's not the gearbox but the bronze shifter cup bushing making the noise. I've installed it to improve shifting precision. But I know what you mean, I have the noise during decelleration on 3rd and 4th as well. It is something that seems to come with wear and tear of the gearbox but does not impact its function.
Miata keeps up with the porsche😎
Siema Arturo Wałbrzych pozdrawia 😁