Why the US could delay the end of Europe's dependence on lithium-ion-batteries from China | DW News
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- Опубліковано 23 січ 2023
- Europe could end its dependence on lithium-ion-batteries from China by 2027. That's according to a study by the industry group 'Transport & Environment'. It says that previous investment in battery plants could set the continent up to produce all the components needed for its future vehicle production. The biggest risk to this outlook: the US Inflation Reduction Act, launched last year, which gives companies major incentives and subsidies to up production in the United States, possibly making some companies re-prioritise their investment.
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I'm pleasantly surprised to learn that Europe already makes half its batteries.
I'm also glad to see the West going back to their manufacturing roots more and more.
I think as the world slowly edges towards war, we'll naturally see a big return of industry.
and then Germany will honor its tradition of starting a new World War.
Better that than to fund totalitarian regimes
@@mastermariner490 Manufacturing in Europe does not mean you are not funding totalitarian regimes. Where the raw materials come from? From the non-walled world. Europe can't manufacture anything be themselves, they need the rest of the world, like it or not.
@@JayToons That was the case,untill Sweden discovered Europes largest Lithium mine,and i like it very much
Hows the inflation in Turkey?
I wonder where the lithium is going to be coming from.
China imports its lithium, if that is your thoughts, not the other way around.
ASX code EUR . from Austria
Already from Australia, Chile, US, etc.
Northvolt a battery manufacturer in Sweden is already producing batteries since last year.
I remember the EU approaching this topic a couple of months ago and they were rightfully critical against US becayse Europe is just exchanging China for US for who they're dependent on instead of becoming independent themselves. While I'm down for better US markets, we should allow the EU to also be self sustaining
The US wants the EU to remain vassal states.
This perspective; that the US offering big subsidies for green energy is seen as a threat to the EU is so absurd. The EU should then match or exceed the IRA investments. Don’t we all need to invest into green energy more and faster!?
The guest on this segment seemed to have the issues well understood and is focused on the core issue - increasing eu investment.
Still don't understand why Europe was quick to react to the Americans but were doing little to nothing in respect to China
@@alandworsky8926
Lol !
There is no such thing as green energy.
The only source closer to this definition is Fusion reactor and Sun.
And the former is non-existent as of now.
So in short, Europe is screwed. China will keep ripping the West off in this sector.
@@martinsnnaji1301 Because despite all the talk, the US is seen as a friend and a free-trade defender making this a deep betrayal.
Does anywhere other than China produce the components that go into these batteries? Are EU and US battery "factories" more than just glorified assembly plants? If not, then everyone is still just as dependent on China in regard to batteries. It's like saying that Japan has refineries to make their own petrol/gasoline but imports all the oil to do so.
South Korea
the cell, the bms, ect.
Over 80% of the world’s battery-grade Lithium is refined in China. You are absolutely right, these new European battery manufacturers would still depend on China for refined metals.
Doesn't matter where the batteries are produce. You also need to have the raw material to produced the battery. Unless you have your lithium mine you are still replying in China for it.
Clever choice to approach the issue this way as the US wants a more diversified supply chain very much. Especially diversified away from China for core items.
Lithium is being discovered all over these days. So we have it in abundance.
America and China should rethink also about European luxury goods. Its a threat to national security on both countries.
Why? 😂
Those perfumes are definitely poisonous and cause environmental issues 😂
Do you even know what luxury goods are ?
ironically, EU could not have that technology on EV batteries compared to china company, and BYD’s blade battery much high advanced than lithium-ion-batteries.
I held the BYD and CATL's stock since 2012.....haven't sold any cents of them.
whatever EU does, nothing can hold up the downtrend in next decades.
Germany companies are still moving to China now.
Being controlled by the United States alone is even more than a nightmare.
Correct
You love being controlled by Russian energy and cheap Chinese goods🤣🤣 Your kind should help Russia in Ukraine.
China is an enemy of the west
I'm curious where this outrage was when China was (and still is) massively subsidizing entire sectors of their economy. Much like how the EU provides huge tax breaks and subsidies for a variety of goods and services while blocking US products from the market. Or is it only a nefarious plot when America does it?
@@CedarHunt USA should start looking for major co operations over seas ,its not like Europe is the only place . If your partner doesn't like you then no need force yourself. I think USA should also re evaluate their military co operations.
I mean the US companies (mainly Tesla) started doubling down on battery production years ago, the Tesla gigafactory became highest volume battery plant in the world in 2018, and has almost doubled its capacity since then, and the US has a total of 3 factories built or being built with that level of capacity.
Are you sure Tesla has a power plant?
I thought it was Panasonic that is building battery plants?
@@Agent-lr4ez Panasonic has been hired to build it by Tesla, who still owns and operates it.
@shane Tesla is just paying Panasonic for the batteries.
Same thing going on with cars in China.
Then Tesla slaps the batteries and car together by creating a logo and call it Tesla.
Nothing like Tesla fan boys.
Tesla self driving is still main cause of self driving vehicle accidents. And still in Beta.
Tesla stock prices are trash.
@@zlonewolf ok so the Giga factory in Nevada that they claim creates battery's don't make battery's?
EU definitely needs to come up with incentives of it own to counter the US and China subsidies. Otherwise major investments will slip elsewhere and I'm sure even Germany would agree, that this is a bad thing.
People with US passport in EU will stop the incentives.
True. The US expects Europe to do some of this too. These industries need to be kick started.
@@kongwee1978 ?
@@thesisLAx US passholding EU members will stop incentive for EU batteries.
@@kongwee1978 have you ever been to Europe? Do you imagine Americans run around and give orders?
The United States markets are way more open than other nations. It's not reciprocal. I'm glad we're finally looking out for ourselves.
Open? You mean put more incentives to dump your market.
All countries should avoid dependency on the US as much as possible
What about where they these companys are getting the Lithium and Cobalt for these batteries? Do we just keep ignore the elephant in the room that these materials are being sourced from countrys like the Congo where modern day slavery ohk...
Lithium cokes from South America and Australia. Cobalt can be sourced anywhere you find Kobolds
Canada and Australia have huge reserves. If I am not wrong Australia has the world's largest reserve. One state of the US also has humongous reserves. You can actually create a forced labor free supply chain. But I doubt german companies will allow the chancellor to do anything as such.
It's ridiculous how much control these companies have over german policies. And what is even more hilarious is while they are asking for subsidies from eu to match with us IRA. They are actually moving all their factories to china and not the USA.
In my county we are building an huge battery fabric for large stionary batteries
So, eu only build battery assembly factory？ Where is LI, Nickel and other materials refinery factory？ Without refinery factory eu still depend on us/china for battery grade raw materials ？
Europe should be more worried about dependence on the US than China. All countries should keep a good relation with China to avoid American bully
All of these measures seem pretty divisive in the long run …
Ending dependence on China for batteries is wishful thinking. Guess no one bothered to check where all the raw materials are processed and refined
The one-child policy has gutted Chinese labor, and their labor costs have already increased dramatically in the last decade. It makes sense in the long-run to build out manufacturing capacity somewhere else, and for US investors, Mexico is the likely solution.
Why doesn’t Europe just pass an IRA clone. Go for it. It’s not a big deal. Stop complaining
They did, they just decided to subsidize Chinese battery manufacturing.
Because the EU still has free-trade as one of its core principles. But the protectionism from the US might very much lead to protectionism in the EU too and to the dissolution of the current economic order.
@@filipe5722 Protectionism? Sure the Trump administration was a very protectionist administration, but Biden has rolled back most of them, including the most important aluminum and steel tariffs in Oct 2021. Currently the US has a trade international trade deficit instead of a surplus, how is that protectionist?
@@samthesuspect Trump was merely the US move towards protectionism meeting lack of diplomacy. Protectionism didn't go away with Biden, as this very video addresses. He's more diplomatic about it, but it's still damaging to free trade, in particular free trade with the EU. And you can't even use China's protectionism or threat as an excuse, since otherwise the US wouldn't have excluded Europe from the equation.
The fact that you even raise the fact the the US still has a trade deficit shows exactly how entrenched the idea that the US should be more protectionist, at the expense of free trade, is in American discourse.
Europe don't have a unlimited money printing printer like US.
Europe needs to lower its electricity price first! In Belgium 1kwh cost 0.65-0.75 euro! And will hit 1 euro mark soon! Only some company cars will be electric, private will only trade second hand combustion engines. You need to make driving electric cheaper first! 1 euro/kWh equals to 100 euro driving 400kms in summer and 275km in winter! This is insane!
Massive cheap battery production will lower electricity cost as half of them can be used for stationary storage as well as reusing car cells that have lost too much capacity for mobile use.
Where is the cost? Is it lack of electricity production leading to scarcity, legal / insurance / governmental costs of generating electricity, cost of building electric supply, or government direct taxes on the consumer?
@@kentonian no, I was talking about electricity price from public grid, when u charge ur car. And for the battery: unfortunately the price goes straight up. The specific metal and elements for making them are rather limited, and the demand is so high, I only see the price upwards. Unless you can make battery with water.
@@liang8255 check out sodium-ion batteries rumoured to be coming in low cost byd evs. Sodium is cheap and plentiful .
Jevon was talking about how large scale battery energy storage could be used with renewables to lower electricity prices .
Unless you open Russia gasline, it won't be lower. It will hit 1 euro if you import from US.
Talking is the problem with the EU. They need to sure up supply now and move fast before the raw materials are gobbled up
None of the materials are as scarce as the fossile fuel industry want you to believe
@@kentonian you need to mine it. A mine takes years to develop due to environmental considerations. So you need to start now for the next decade
Lithium mining is extremely toxic, whichever they mine from gonna have to deal with it.
Because US doesn't allow EU to subside. People in EU have US passport.
I am grateful for Julia‘s comments. For me, they essentially say “Europe, take responsibility for your economic situation.” Thank you Sweden for looking for rare earth elements on your land.
As a US citizen who has watched for decades the offshoring of US production, I have a little sympathy for Europe’s complaints about the potential impacts of the US IRA. A truly free market is impossible when the planet has powerful autocracies. Thus, some level of protectionism is necessary. Most importantly, do we want a truly free market as the majority of businesses have proven they have no soul?
UW....wer also building new plants, and plants for recycling of rare materials from stuff like batteries.... Just barely 1 year ago we managed to construct batteries from 100% recycled material...now wer scaling up, the problem so faar has been ther wasent enugh rare minerals available in the world...wer getting there...
Perfekt, „smart“ industrial policy… a synonym for protectionism and trade barriers
I hope Australia also value ads to it's lithium exports.
As businessmen Let's get this straight, US n EU trying to be "self dependent" aka isolating themself but they represent tiny portion of human population with stagnated economy! Here China itself huge market far bigger than the west combined + China is the largest trade partner of most countries on earth. So who isolating who? 🤣
Mexico is going to take over China. Little by little for manufacturing.
You are right to laugh about your own statements. Please go on.
Energy can cause lightning example shock electrons 🤔
So the Airbus subsidies were OK but EV isn’t. Strange values the Eau has.
Chinese government has already ended its subsidy in electric car purchase but people still prefer Electric cars which will reach 30%+ in car market this year.
We also need individual independence via solar cells on the roof.
I think you are free to do so. I did.
Bigest factory is in Romania
You're a vassal state of US, so you have to do what they say 🤣😂
Why not use gravity batteries that uses prisoners walking on big wheels to lift them to make clean 24/7 energy.
Yes I'm talking big that can make MW to GWh of energy that just drops a big heavy weight that uses a transmission to slow its fall giving you the energy.
Very much happy...
Renewable energy or weapons projectile 😭
While inviting China’s CATL to build their battery factory in Germany… great solution😂
What if the US won't allow us? We just cry?
You should look specifically in Quebec in Canada for some parts of that
What’s a Canada ? Is it off Detroit or something
Sounds like the EU is already fairly well along the way of being independent. I mean halfway. From here on the EU is literally mostly dependent on itself for batteries. And still not all new battery developments have moved away. Sounds to me like a speedbump and not a real obstacle.
If the concern is more about a lost opportunity to dominate the industry then well... Fair is fair eh?
As it seems no one knows, that Australia produces most of the Lithium (55.000 t) Next Chile (29.000 t) China (22.000 t)... US (5.000 t) ... as of 2022. So no supply problem, just build the processing plants and it's done in 5 to 10 years.
Europe should start focusing on Iron Air Batteries and develop enough enough capacity to eliminate dependence on Russian and Middle Eastern oil.
The technology isnt mature... yet
But Natrium Ion Battery’s are.
Batteries simply store energy, they don’t generate any. Batteries aren’t a solution for oil dependency.
@@seeyouseemee3863 we have the wind, sun and other renewable and Emission free sources for that. They generate the needed electricity. Batteries stores the electricity.
It’s about reducing the dependency. No one talks about cutting the need for oil and gas in single second.
It will be a long time before China feels any pain from this decision in Europe but Chinese corporations have already signed major binding deals with South American/African Lithium and cobalt mines to by up all their stocks. Europe and US will be left with only native, and Canadian sources only. It will take a really profound change in politics in the various mining countries to free up their mineral wealth.
It will take a major change in US politics to allow someone to dig a hole in the ground and pull "poisonous metals" out of it.
China has RCEP that higher trade deal than WTO.
Not to worry together europe led by usa will do freedom operations in those countries
Given the choice, the rest of the world would go for the cheaper stuff.
We're building natural gas processing plants, and pipelines to everywhere.
Texas has become the third largest oil producer in the world behind of only Saudi Arabia and Russia.
Lithium battery storage is a very old technology. New technologies are coming.
Talk, talk, talk. But, notice how they never talk about building more power plants to charge all of these electric vehicles. The U.S. currently uses nearly 20 million barrels of oil per day and Europe nearly 17.3 million barrels of oil per day.
Building Battery Factories to develop Energy self sufficiency is good.
Evironmental protection organization hate any new countries.
@@qili3899 New Countries are not Environmental.
EU = all talk but no action and complaints + delays when it comes to mining the critical mineral for batteries in their own countries. Pretty obvious Europe is in trouble in the future but hey lets just have another meeting to discuss. what they can do.
So what you’re saying is America should invest in better green energy for their own country because it’s unfair to Europe? Yeah….
Not with germany... scholzing away....
Crucial minerals. Terrafame in Finland is opening production of depleted Uranium in 2024-26. Allegedly it will be the only in Europe (Ukraines production is down?)
As a Canadian, I would like to suggest that this time we will manufacture the batteries and Europe can mine and refine the minerals in Europe and sell us the raw materials. We will be needing Lithuim, Cobalt, Nickel and a whole lot of copper and aluminum. I am quite confident that you will be able to keep your air and water clean while you are at it and also give us very good prices to boot!
Do they even have any mines? Anyway, mining for these materials is very destructive to the communities and environment around the world they currently are being dug up at. I would like to see the EU allow such destructive behavior to happen there as it shows they will back up all their environmental stances. They can mine all this in their home turf. They will probably be better at protecting the people and environment than most nations. However, I wonder how cost competitive such a venture would be with so many regulations they have.
Lithium is produced in Australia, Chile, China, US.... It will come from Australia and Chile.
hmm...we do need batteries...like today...and we dont event have factory...the amout we need is insane...electric transport and other tech is not going away for sure so its no brainer...the sooner the better...
Unless all countries recycle every battery that they can this planet will be in even more trouble then its already is in. ♻️🌲🌎🌍🌳♻️✌️
Fragile or forgive 🤔
Sounds like you are scared of a little good old fashioned competition.
While I'm sure it's attracting clicks, this headline should really read, "Europe Needs to do More to Incentivize its Own Battery Production." Nothing in this piece truly explained why Europe's current battery manufacturing situation is the U.S's fault.
Na-ion batteries please ⚡️🧡⚡️
The battery industry and O&G industry emits similar carbon output as a whole. The battery industry etc is overrated.
yeah well maybe you should've have exchanged your foreign policy independence for globalization and dependence on China
Lithium and Cobalt equal child slavery. Shame on those driving EV’s and their abuse of children.
exactly, but all of these droids are not realizing this :(
If there is one thing I learned watching EU politics is everyone will just argue and 15 years will pass and the only thing that changed was who was arguing.
Europe: ick! US wastes way too many resources and needs to go green.
USA: OK. Passes legislation to that.
Europe: Noooo... You can't do that.
What are these usa subsidies. Tesla Berlin is big enough?? What technology is north volt using in Sweden and whose automation europe is starting from zero and like Japan post WWII should be in the copy mode or it’s too late!
LMAO 😅🤣😂
There is no gas or oil from the Russian Federation. These prices are for 100 years.
The salt from Europe regarding the IRA is hilarious. The EU is one massive protectionist racket and they don't like when other countries play the same way.
The EU is one of the main defenders of free-trade.
@@filipe5722 Free trade within the EU. Not at all necessarily about external trade.
@@lwilton Wrong. The EU is commited to free-trade within the common market and outside the bloc. Outside trade can be eased through harmonization of standards in trade agreements which the EU has signed and continues to negotiate several.
@@filipe5722 That's hilarious. The EU regularly adds tariffs and restrictions to US goods and has ridiculous rules before you can send anything into the EU market. Calling them proponents of free trade is ridiculous nonsense.
@@filipe5722 the EU adds a 10+% tariff on US cars while the US adds 2.5% on foreign imports. There are many other examples, the EU is just throwing a big fit because it’s a new emerging industry that everyone is racing to establish a larger market share and they’re losing
European countries can institute their own Financial incentives To reach the goal of Battery independence
Which country is not at the party? Great Britain
The world is dividing i like China and the developing world on one side and usa on one side and Europe on the other side
Die Probleme der Indianer stört der Sheriff nicht.
Deindustrialization is happening 😜
Follow Chinese model, go where nobody goes, Africa ! Africa has everything that the world of EVs needs at a fraction of a cost ! Just needs more investment !
Europe needs to restart its nuclear plants to produce CO2 free energy and keep the price down!
move all european factories to US, a safe, free and democratic country
US: We need to get away from Russia and China
Europe: But it is so cheap
Apple: Has left the chat🤣🤣
Those poor child slaves in the Congo
Germany is good for producer center of all technology in europe as products producer. Becouse of good Quality.
A lot of resources that could've been mined in Donbas and Crimea, right? 🤔
Very good Ivan here’s your 20 rouble
I hate the term 'green' as none of this is green or at zero emissions and will never be. Names made up for the believers
Why can't Europe go to Africa for its lithium, they have an ocean of it and share similar values!! Europe start doing business with your neighbours!!!!
Africa shares similar values as Europe? LMFAO!!!!!!!
Does the USA own Europe that it dictates everything? Why does the USA has an oversight in Europe over security and economy? The USA is not elected by the peoples of Europe, so why does the USA dictates its rules there?
where are the US army deploying, where are the US backyard. such like NATO
It’s because us pays for your defence lmao. You’ll have to work more than 20 hours a week otherwise
@@kioly_ah But isn't NATO frightful, because in the last 30 years it has destroyed every country they went in to help?
Because if USA didn't do that EU would have been 2nd GDP around the world. Look at what US does to China now.
Battery independence is a joke. Germany and Europe responds more to the forces emanating from the poles and from the chemistry of Lithuania than thinking of battery polarity and lithium electrolytes
Europe independency depends entirely on US. Can EU do anything on it's own anymore? Is EU really independent when US holds all the cards?
Energy, Security, the internet/social media, space exploration, electric cars, all the new high tech system components is controlled by US.
US on the other depends very little on EU for critical things that actually matters. German cars (soon to be over thrown by Tesla), chemicals (which can be produced in US as well), high fashions products, vacation destination.
Imagine taking a massive deal away from one of the biggest EU member and EU does nothing in return. You guessed it, US played France like a fool and France could only show some temper tantrum. In the end France backed off and let US do what it wants.
That's why Europe is trying to replace USA with China 😅 . I really don't get the way Europe thinks .
US on the other depends very little on EU for critical things that actually matters. Yeah , you forget about ASML.
There would be no Tesla, and nothing high tech in the US without that small Dutch company.
Are you talking about the US offering nuclear power subs so the Aussies dropped the French diesel subs?
@@fry22417 Because USA is the lesser of 2 evils. China is the absolute worst country in the world, literally a mafia-run government.
@@scratchy996 They may force ASML to open factory in US in the future since you mentioned it.
EU cannot make quick decisions in everything they do because it requires collective decision-making amongst EU members & which takes a long time. The bureaucratic EU systems can bug down important decisions which sometimes require fast turnaround results. This pandemic really learned everyone important lessons about not relying on China & Russia.
✨UA-cam GMG Group (Australia) and watch about their Graphene battery development...
👉Lithium is destined for redundancy with certainty!
What kind of video title is that?? Muddy, doesn't give a punch.
Try so hard to link it to China, that's why. Should be more direct like "European battery manufacturers are moving to US."
Proud to be an American where at least I know I have batteries!
I hope Europeans create a green policy like we did in the USA. Who cares if it steps on the toes of us Americans! It will benefit the world, really. I hope China does the same but I hope we all invest next in African nations.
Your fine with impoverishing yourself on behalf of Europe ? Stop the boot licking
@@ramoncastaneda8432 You're, not YOUR, fine with impoverishing the world by enabling a dictator to sweep through Europe and hold global markets hostage? What flavor are Putin's boots, Ramon?
Free trade is a right as long as it benefits the colonial masters. LMAO
🤔hops, wheat, barley, now battery. Gas, oil 🛢 replace by RE & Storage batteries.
Germany, France, Italy will still concentrate on Luxury, isn't it.
China's wine 🍷, got the Aussies worried. Chocolates 🍫 is a big item, China only 70gm compare to EU 5kg.
Beer 🍺 is a big deal 👌.
👮♂️
LVMH owner is the world's richest man. Replaces Elon Musk.
🤣
The EU have states where people are paid much less than they are in the US. Its not like its an even playing field to start with.
White people like to stick together race is very important
eu wants to isolate itself! eu is affraid.
You misspelled US twice.
Keep the Germans down and the commis out...NATO/anglo saxons design: no batteries Germany dominated EU.
What you smoking?
EVs are not sustainable in the long term. Also very destructive to the environments and communities around the mines. I'm not saying we should stick with ICE. But the building of these batteries as so many issues that nobody likes to talk about. Can we really build millions of EVs year after year for decades if not a century?
America already buys more European goods than vice versa. Stop trying to take advantage of American generosity.
Exactly! The trade deficit with the EU is almost $200 Billon, yet Europe is the victim if it doesn't get more US tax payer dollars.
Savnf