One of my favorite things in... heck, in all of Star Trek, is the end of Is There In Beauty No Truth, when, now that Zero has all the facts, everyone stands back and lets them decide for themself what they want. That idea, "it's your decision to make, we'll respect what you choose, but it's important you know everything you can before you choose" is just, so so important.
Agreed with this point. That might by my favorite episode of the season (though there are so many great ones), and I love that stance by Zero's friends. Obviously Dal and everyone would rather Zero stay with the crew, but they would respect their wishes if they chose the planet instead.
There's obvious parallels to the trans experience, and that whole theme of respect for *literal* bodily autonomy is a great message regarding allyship.
This was so much better than his cameo in Picard! This is how you use this character! And love how they still acknowledge all the lore that we got back there.
This is a Dr. Who SEASON of Star Trek... Dal says "timey-wimey", Wesley's got a Tardis, stolen planets (BOTH in Stolen Earth and Tom Baker's Logopolis), Dal doing his best "Beast Below", Linked corded telephones, and... I swear there was another quote that sounded lifted from Dr. Who dislog... but it escapes me as I type this. That's a lotta Who for Trek!
@@cynthiacampbell7277 they just probably left each other alone and only had occasional encounters. If travellers wanted, they could have just gone back in time and prevented the Q from evolving.
@@cynthiacampbell7277 Q did always seem to be looking into “what if humans became more advanced”… Wes is kind of a combination of a Q and an Alurian like Guinan, the ability to cross time, space and alternate universes instantly while also being able to perceive changes to time. He’s just missing being able to alter reality and make things appear out of nothing.
I think the sweaters was probably more of a call back to Beverly's line to Wesley at the end of Journey's End where she told him to "be sure to pack a sweater for when you go to these other planes of existence."
Which, to be fair, _also_ felt like a deliberate call back to the sheer number of sweaters Wesley wore before he got his uniform, and which Beverley presumably chose for him.
I love Ellie going rogue and giving up and downs to whatever she wants. I had always kind of wondered how much was host inspired...it seems most of it.
If I had a chance to pitch an idea to the bigwigs at -Paramount- Skydance, I'd go for a mockumentary series (on a platform like UA-cam or Nebula) explaining the Temporal Wars and temporal mechanics generally, hosted by Dr. Erin.
There is so much potential for Wesley the traveller and if they make it animated they could have him hop around the entire franchise secretly keeping the timeline.
Now you mention it, it is kinda stunning that the reveal of Wesley Timelord Crusher wasn't leaked from the premature French release. I wonder if they had to cut a moment where Wesley recognised the Nova Squadron pin on Ma'Jel's collar and had some Emotions about it, for time. It seems like a point of connection that he would have noticed.
Another big Doctor Who reference is the concept of the Loom themselves as parasites consuming the contents of a doomed paradoxical universe. This is lifted directly from the Ninth Doctor episode Father's Day.
The way I took it was that when Wes dropped Janeway back on the bridge, he also messed with time/space a bit - the ship is back in orbit (the viewscreen shot was similar but the exterior shot was far from the planet surface), she has her clothes back on, the ship isn't falling to pieces, and at least most of the crew seem to be restored (I didn't go back to check exactly who was previously deleted though). I figured that was part of the "well this is a kid show so Wes should hit the reset button" to counter all the death and destruction.
Wesley’s white and gray uniform…possibly his dress uniform from Riker and Troy’s wedding in Nemesis from his deleted scene??? This would have been the last starfleet uniform he was ever seen in.
I doubt that. We know Wesley joined the Travelers in TNG, so he's no longer in Starfleet. Why should he be wearing a dress uniform in Nemesis if he is no longer in Starfleet?
@@JuPMod Oh it makes no sense for him to wear a dress unform, but it's what he's on screen wearing (for however many thousands of a second it ended up being). Apparently Wesley wasn't going to be in the movie (Wheaton was the only regular character from the Bridge crew who hadn't been invited back by Berman) but LeVar Burton realised he'd been overlooked and asked for him to be included and Berman did. One suspects he ded so reluctantly as he promptly cut the scene he'd have been in. I suspect the Starfleet costume was used because they would have had several lying around as spares, rather than have to get him a non Starfleet costume.
@@JuPMod the cut plot was Wesley was back and had been assigned to engineering on the Titan w Riker & Troi , Wesley is visible sitting at the head table at the wedding (only in the wide screen version), but no dialog references him. Thanks Berman
@@icon_uk624there's a long list of Berman screwing over Wil for daring to leave , conversely he spread his arms wide for Crosby every time she showed up
HANG ON A MO!! Wesley Crusher has a "TARDIS"!! In the new series of Doctor Who, they name drop Star Trek and he says "We should visit those guys" or something like that... THIS is how they CROSS!!! THE DOCTOR MIGHT HAVE LITERALLY MET WESLEY CRUSHER!!!!
MIddleton got the redshirtest deal of them all, not just died, but got erased from existance. But also, Galaxy Quest: "what's my last name?" by Grubthor's hammer, give him a last name...
Re animation eating whole cake in one bite: it’s easier/cheaper to animate. ESPECIALLY in CG animation. I worked on a preschool CG show & we had this same discussion. Director hated the “big bite” & thought it could be a harmful example to kids to eat a cupcake in one bite. Then he was told the cost of animating separate bites (since each bite would require a separate prop design, build, texture, lighting, etc) & suddenly he was totally fine with the characters eating in one bite! Also one of the producers thought it was cute to see them eat in one bite & thought it was a waste of run time to take separate bites. But I feel ya! My pet peeve is hanging up the phone without saying bye. So far I’ve been able to sneak in a bye on the other end of the phone at least.
my toddler has never seen a cartoon and she naturally eats things in huge bites. So it's pretty accurate and doesn't influence their behavior, at least not at that age.
Yes, great job Ellie. Also normally it is one episode a week, one latinum up a week. Since this is five episodes, I think there should have been five of them. So no Ellie I don't think you broke the rules with two, just bent them.
I’m not sure what I think about the length of this video. Lots of episodes, just takes time. Ellie, your sensibility and observations are very different from Sean’s. They’re great. I learned a lot, and you’re very good at this. But I’d be curious to hear Sean’s takes, too.
-- replace this section with me gushing how wonderful and adorable Ellie is -- this was one of the best ups and downs of the entire channel, Ellie your new fresh take on Trek shines thru in such positive light. Please more of Ellie.
Love how Wesley mentioned the Nerada incident that at that present time hasn't happened yet! It happens when the romulan star went super nova in star trek 2009
@davegallo8166 Yes, but the nerada is currently in Romulan space in the prime timeline as the super nova sends them and Spock to the Kelvin timeline. The mars attacks happen at the end of the season and the fleet that was destroyed was to save the Romulan people.
@davegallo8166 the Nerada is the Romulan mining vessel started from the Prime universe when Romulus star went Super Nova and ended up going into Kelvin alt timeline sucking in Admiral Spock to the Kelvin alternate reality in the past. At this point in prime universe Prodigy the Star Is going Super Nova and Picard is evacuating Romulus, Spock has tried the Vulcan Science Institute solution to try and stop the Super Nova by injecting Romulus sun with red matter and it doesn't work and it creates an anomaly into the Kelvin timeline and because the evacuation wasn't good enough for Romulans And the injection of red matter into the star didn't work the Romulans hack into the Mars synthetic workforce to turn into an attack on Mars at the end of Prodigy season 2 and what Picard recaps as the beginning of Picard season 1
The EMH facing off with an invading enemy is a callback to ST First Contact, when Dr. Crusher evacuates sick bay she activates the EMH and orders him to stall the Borg while the crew escapes.
Welcome Ellie! You are going with JayCee as the ship name when there is Chakotway? I love the way they brought Wesley into this season. His cameo in Picard was so tacked on it felt bad. But here we got to explore who he was now and what being a traveler has done to him. An excellent addition.
Truly hope Netflix will pay to do a third season . I guess Paramount still owns this series even tho they abandoned it.Then again maybe Skydance will revive Prodigy
I loved season 1,, felt like Trek and definetly not just for kids, season 2 surpasses season 1 in every single way and i pray Netflix picks it up for more seasons.
This was a lot of fun, great work by everyone at TC! A couple of the gems that I liked were (Kris?) the editor added in a shot of Adm. Vance eating an apple when Ellie was discussing the replicator (fantastic reference), and mentioning Tom Paris the image was actually of Nick Locarno. A couple other things - I think Wes said 'Timey Wimey' at one point. I recall Wes grabbing Gwyn's hand and running in a very similar way that Matt Smith would grab Karen Gillan or Jenna Colemans' hand.
Unfortunately, I had Wesley's appearance spoiled for me. I don't remember exactly where it was, but it was from someone who had seen the French versions. Thankfully, I didn't know the extent to which he was in the season. A great job by Wil Wheaton!
Re: Vulcan marriages. I'm pretty sure that the Vulcans that end up in Starfleet (or as Ambassadors for that matter) are regarded as the crazy, out of control Vulcans (ref: T'Lyn)
Great job with the Ups & Downs, Ellie! I love getting different opinions on these episodes, and a lot of the observations you bring up just go to highlight how well thought out everything is. Looking forward to you and Sean covering the rest of the season.
My *protostar up* for the week is that Ellie is hosting!! Sean-I love you, but it's great that you let the resident Janeway Stan share in the hosting duties. Now some running commentary: - Cmdr Tysess clearly wanted the kids to steal the ship in E06. He stopped just short of out-and-out saying, "Here's the keys to the ship. I'm going to look away for the next ten seconds..." - It is a testament to the writers understanding their characters that Rok didn't even consider fighting her holo-twin. Glad you commented on it. - Re: "the"s in _F&F_ franchise name-either is acceptable, given that _The Fast and the Furious_ is the first film, but _Fast and Furious_ (no. 4) marked the hard pivot of the franchise into action movie spectacle. - Did anyone else get Borg vibes from the Kazon computer? Is it possible it" went rogue" after absorbing some Borg programming? - I disagree a bit with your "cult vibes" comment re: E08-I took it as "Black-and-Orange morality." The non-corporeal inhabitants clearly didn't mean any harm, Zero wasn't trapped on the planet, and I really don't think anything would have happened if he had been eaten besides him being stuck in the belly of the space manta for a few aeons. - Steve Shives goes into this in detail, but the reason Wesley works in _Prodigy_ is largely because you need zero preexisting knowledge of the character to appreciate his role in the show. Rok's fangirling serves the secondary purpose of getting anyone who cares up to speed, but otherwise, his character stands on its own for these two episodes! - As someone who really hates the "noble blood" / "small universe" trope, finding out that Maj'el isn't just some random Vulcan is a big *down* for me. - Glad you covered the USS Cairo in Cetacean Observations. Definitely wanted to know what was up with that.
I was going to comment that it's actually "Green and purple morality", as mentioned in Babylon 5, but a quick google tells me that we're both apparently misremembering. The common phrase is Blue and Orange Morality. Huh. Today I learnt.
Ellie... Wesleys white uniform is from Star Trek: Nemesis. It's his dress uniform from the wedding scene. Sometimes he's included sometimes not in the edit. Schrödinger's wedding invitation.
Awesome job, Ellie! You've got this! What a great Ups & Downs episode. Wooooh! What a lot to cover in these 5 episodes! Thanks for insights that I missed. See you next week! Live logs and proper! 🖖
A tip for remembering where things are when doing green screen stuff - you can put cues off camera! Just tape up a green and red symbol on the correct sides so you can just point towards the red one.
The phased planet I think more goes back earlier than Doctor Who's The Stolen Earth. Dee Space Nine had an episode with a planet out of phase where Dax almost stayed on it.
I think you did great for your first ups and downs. Could be a little faster in delivery, but overall, the energy is there, and I love the enthusiasm. Also the double-latinum ups. Screw the rules, we have Tank Top Janeway! Also, normally it's only one latinum per episode, so the fact you're doing 5 episodes in one go means you've got wiggle room. I say it's good to go.
Wesley’s time travel console is also reminiscent of the Ancient Consoles that SG1 find in many episodes of Stargate which can also be used for time travel.
Ellie - I think you missed another Doctor Who reference, let alone from your heroine River Song, when Wesley says something like "Nobody loves spoilers."
Shame on Paramount for cancelling Prodigy. Cheers to Netflix for picking up Prodigy. I am simply amazed that I can care so much about the characters. I am amazed that they can be so very touching. I do not care how they do it, but I want five more seasons of the show.
I (fondly) remember when Captain Jellico (Ronny Cox) first became Captain of the Enterprise. ("Chain of Command", Part I & II (1992)) And though he wasn't The Captain they wanted, he was the Captain they needed. But I'm afraid that since then he's just become a stereotypical bad Captain (Martinet). I believe you can have good Star Fleet personnel without them being foolish or cruel. (Plus, Ronny Cox is great as good or bad guy.) As always thank you so very much for the videos. And Ellie you are Awesome! You don't need to, I think, compare yourself to Seán (also Awesome!). You do you! (Now can we get Alex Kingston to voice Wesley's Wife?)
Wes was right not to try to help her, initially -- there's _vastly_ bigger stakes. They're lucky things turned out as they did. :P It's literally the "hard call" we just referenced. He does it, he's bad. The kid does it, she's a hero. C'mon.
Oh, also I can't believe it just clicked in my head... that episode with the Kaizon an the computer.... I think Prodigy just gave us one of the biggest lore easter eggs in all of trek without anyone noticing. That computer... I think that was where the Borg originated from. Look at it's shape an design, it's the same or similar to those nodes found inside of borg cubes. It uses link tech to control people. It talks about improving them... it essentially all but assimilated Merph but without nanoprobes. It was located directly next to an abandoned transwarp hub... I mean, the signs are all there.
I don’t think that’s it considering it’s dramatically less advanced than the Borg. Yes you can say they grew without this machine, but why did it not stay a part of them or pick up a few of their advancements for itself. Also, Kazon scientist pretty much directly confirms that the computer is a relatively recent creation to newly train initiates. It is not centuries old technology. Furthermore, if the Borg Collective owed its existence to the Kazon, why do they show no interest in them?
@@Cdr2002 Well first off, we know canonically that the kaizon are thieving liars pretty much by nature. Second, they suck so bad the borg (current) wouldn't even bother to assimilate them. So I doubt they could have made any of the tech there. Then you have the fact that whatever it was had been controlling that dude's mind...for how long? Can we really trust anything he remembers or thinks? So what core behaviors have we witnessed in isolated borg before, queen or drones. Well, firstly, queens priority seems to be to make drones as quickly as possible so she has more protection, larger work force, whatever reasons. We see that machine try to do that with the crew there. They also seek self preservation at any cost (I mean most life does) but queens go to first line of defense when out numbered or hell even when outnumbering, has been mind games, deceit and advancement/upgrading. So, what if this machine was the origin, the first queen, one that was all machine. And the drones doing borg stuff like they do, ended up creating the first human/machine queen. The machine def wouldn't look at that as an upgrade, an the new borg would most likely see the machine that created them a lesser evolved form that what they were, so wouldn't deem it worth the trouble. Especially since they know everything it knows. Jus not worth the effort but know if they tried to take it with it'd resist an in this case, it would not be futile. So they let it sit there in the ice to rot forever.
@@Cdr2002 I mean I'm still not a 100% sure about the idea either an actually... I kinda like it that way. It's nice to have a loose thread mystery in trek again. However you can't tell me it totally doesn't look like one of those node though. And how it acted was very borgish
I think the episode where zero gets a body when Ellie criticized about not having question the situation we should remember these are kids that's being portrayed
I Loved every second Wes was in this Season, easily my favourite Character which is ironic because i hated him in TNG. Same Story with Anakin in Star Wars hated him in the prequels but He grew on me in Clone Wars. I think i should watch TNG again, been a while.
Yes! I wasn’t a fan of Wesley on TNG but he was great here. The writers on _Prodigy_ have a much better understanding of the character and how to use him.
I actually enjoy occasionally having someone else step in for Sean doing the Ups and Downs for Star Trek episodes. I like Sean in this roll, but he does have a particular point of view, and - just like you and all of the rest of us - he has particular things he always ups or downs. It's nice to get a fresh perspective. He always downs mentions of the Kobayashi Maru, you always down animations eating food in a single bite. It's good to have a change every now and then.
42:01 wasn’t Wesley’s “TARDIS” set up in caves he and Picard had their last mission together in? That’s where it looked like to me. I also felt reminded of a TARDIS console. Very fun. Wesley was the last person I thought would become a Doctor Who analogue.
I literally cannot disagree more on downing Gwyn's decision to take Zero to get help. For this mission, they needed everyone and Zero literally couldn't even HOVER anymore.
I think the episode about Zero receiving a body was a very clear allegory for transitioning. That's one of my issues with Ellie continuing to call them a cult: that's an inflammatory accusation used against trans people all the time. While I'm sure that's not how she meant it, that's nevertheless the fears that sort of description is feeding into. The point wasn't that it was a cult, or that you should see the people as suspicious, the point is that, like with everything, transition does still carry some risks or consequences. I'm actually glad the writers didn't go the easy route and make it a cult- the "red flag" was that Zero may not have an unwaveringly fantastic time from start to finish in their new body, but as we can see, they still enjoy practically everything about the experience. Because nothing in life is going to be 100% roses and daffodils, but in the end, it's still what makes Zero feel complete. And portraying the non-corporeal corporeals (trans people) as being benevolent and offering this to people like Zero as a form of altruism, with the only real catch being that you will experience everything that comes with living in a body, I think is very complimentary for trans people, considering they are constantly portrayed as "seducers of the innocent," or preying on people. One of my favorite queer allegories in Trek to date has been this episode.
I find it interesting, that they try to explain all inconsistencies of the different shows this season. They even find a way to explain how the uniforms shifted the way they did. Why do we have on one hand the "all good things" combadges in prodigy while the later picard uniforms have the Voyager combadges? Someone noticed and took the time to find a way to explain how this happened. Therefore "Prodigy" becomes the glue that ties all the series of the 24th and 25th century together. Well played, Kurtzman team. Well played.I hope you will cover that, Trekculture, Shawn.
Bravo Ellie, you’ve done an excellent job Zoom like no other up and down there’s been so detailed so fun except for last week of course with Sean but he’s so used to these up and down things like old hat to him to say he’s not good. He is fabulous job. Can’t wait to see what you do next week, take care stay hydrated. Get some rest and have fun. We really appreciate your work. We all do that all the fans. There are millions of us. Don’t forget we all love your work. Thanks for the fun until next time.
I could do with a lot more in-person Ellie doing videos on this channel. Thought you handled the pressure brilliantly Ellie! Looking forward to next week! ♥
The two spocks meeting destryoing the universe kinda like Doc Brown warning Marty "not to run into your other self...the results could be disastrous....could destroy the entire universe....or perhaps be merely limited to our own galaxy".
a very good ups and downs, Ellie nailed it^^ one little thing i recognized. On Voyagers sickbay, the doctors balt patient laying on the biobed is looking very similar to picard even though its not picard.
I was so surprised myself to see Wesley Crusher return. He sure played a great part of the story in the episodes to come. I was somewhat fond of him in TNG given I too was a teen at the time. I was kind of sad he decided to join the Travelers than to stay in Starfleet, yet given his Traveling abilities and knowledge, he came out to be a great hero in this 2nd Season. :) Out of all the lines in these five episodes, I love Jacob's "He's a nebula short of a galaxy" line. Great Trek take of the "A can short of a six-pack" line. XD Hmmmm... Vulcans are not to show emotion, yet it seems they're displaying emotions more in the lateral half of the 24th century. Maj'el certainly showed her emotions with Zero with that hand touching his cheek. I love her character. Great that she now is part of Prodigy gang. :) Anyway, the next five episodes are going to be fun when the gang meets Chakotay. :)
My biggest issue with the Loom is the scene where they were just erasing Voyager crew left and right. These people didn't just die, their entire existence was erased, and still no serious repercussions for the timeline... To me it seemed that there were so many folks that were just so insignificant to history on that crew... That's so sad.
If you watched all the way through episode 10, Wesley time slipped Janeway back to Voyager... A Voyager that wasn't attacked yet by the Loom scavengers. You can tell that when the first crew that the Loom consumed were there to greet Janeway, who was wearing her uniform again.
One of my favorite things in... heck, in all of Star Trek, is the end of Is There In Beauty No Truth, when, now that Zero has all the facts, everyone stands back and lets them decide for themself what they want. That idea, "it's your decision to make, we'll respect what you choose, but it's important you know everything you can before you choose" is just, so so important.
Agreed with this point. That might by my favorite episode of the season (though there are so many great ones), and I love that stance by Zero's friends. Obviously Dal and everyone would rather Zero stay with the crew, but they would respect their wishes if they chose the planet instead.
There's obvious parallels to the trans experience, and that whole theme of respect for *literal* bodily autonomy is a great message regarding allyship.
This. And family.
The folded uniform in Wesley's vault, I think it maybe HIS dress uniform from his deleted scene in the Troi/Riker wedding!
Don’t forget the last thing Beverly said to Wesley. Be sure to bring a sweater in case it’s cold on those other planes of existence.
I enjoy the fact that the doctor’s holo novels are a running joke.
Legit surprised on the LARGE role Wesley had this season 😮
This was so much better than his cameo in Picard! This is how you use this character! And love how they still acknowledge all the lore that we got back there.
Ellie, I love your Janeway hair!
Right?!?!?
It's very season 1-3 Janeway!
Well done, Ellie! This makes it official: Wesley Crusher is now the Doctor Who of the Star Trek universe.
57:44 Apparently he's Neo from The Matrix as well.
Now I hope for a little crossover-episode where either of them visits the other xD.
The endless child
This is a Dr. Who SEASON of Star Trek... Dal says "timey-wimey", Wesley's got a Tardis, stolen planets (BOTH in Stolen Earth and Tom Baker's Logopolis), Dal doing his best "Beast Below", Linked corded telephones, and... I swear there was another quote that sounded lifted from Dr. Who dislog... but it escapes me as I type this. That's a lotta Who for Trek!
Father's Day too@@andrewschwarz3405
I’m happy we’re getting more Wil Wheaton in Star Trek, I hope if legacy happens he’ll check in on his brother. Imagine Wesley vs Q!!!
Maybe Wesley and Q's son. 🙂
I'd be happy with just a conversation between Wes and Q. I would love to know what they make of each other.
@@cynthiacampbell7277 they just probably left each other alone and only had occasional encounters. If travellers wanted, they could have just gone back in time and prevented the Q from evolving.
@@cynthiacampbell7277 Q did always seem to be looking into “what if humans became more advanced”… Wes is kind of a combination of a Q and an Alurian like Guinan, the ability to cross time, space and alternate universes instantly while also being able to perceive changes to time. He’s just missing being able to alter reality and make things appear out of nothing.
I think the sweaters was probably more of a call back to Beverly's line to Wesley at the end of Journey's End where she told him to "be sure to pack a sweater for when you go to these other planes of existence."
Which, to be fair, _also_ felt like a deliberate call back to the sheer number of sweaters Wesley wore before he got his uniform, and which Beverley presumably chose for him.
Will Wheaton SHINES in this episode!
It was like he was depressurizing back into our reality. He's clearly having trouble acting normal in three-dimensional time and space.
Seems they were trying to make him the Doctor Who of Star Trek.
Wil with one L.
I found myself wondering while watching this if his commitment to this is what kept him out of Picard season 3.
@@gestaltdude Voice over work is usually done in an intensive couple of weeks and they are often quite flexible to work around prior commitments.
I love Ellie going rogue and giving up and downs to whatever she wants. I had always kind of wondered how much was host inspired...it seems most of it.
I love that she doesn't give a down to the glitching holograms and then says "Ha ha!" to Sean.
Data: I HATE THIS STUFF!
Guinan: More?
Data: Yes, please!
Petition for a Temporal Wars series staring Will Wheaton...🤔
He did look like "Future Guy" for a bit there. 🤔
If I had a chance to pitch an idea to the bigwigs at -Paramount- Skydance, I'd go for a mockumentary series (on a platform like UA-cam or Nebula) explaining the Temporal Wars and temporal mechanics generally, hosted by Dr. Erin.
@@AlyssaNguyenHe probably was.
There is so much potential for Wesley the traveller and if they make it animated they could have him hop around the entire franchise secretly keeping the timeline.
Now you mention it, it is kinda stunning that the reveal of Wesley Timelord Crusher wasn't leaked from the premature French release.
I wonder if they had to cut a moment where Wesley recognised the Nova Squadron pin on Ma'Jel's collar and had some Emotions about it, for time. It seems like a point of connection that he would have noticed.
As far as I know, the French fans observed the temporal prime directive and didn't release any spoilers.
Another big Doctor Who reference is the concept of the Loom themselves as parasites consuming the contents of a doomed paradoxical universe. This is lifted directly from the Ninth Doctor episode Father's Day.
touche'👍
My first thought was the Langoliers
I think there's also a touch of The Matrix in there as well (57:44 )
@@DrakeAurum That's exactly what I was thinking of. Though I wasn't favorable in that comparison, given how had of an episode that was. :-)
@@ki5aokyes, they’re Sentinels.
The way I took it was that when Wes dropped Janeway back on the bridge, he also messed with time/space a bit - the ship is back in orbit (the viewscreen shot was similar but the exterior shot was far from the planet surface), she has her clothes back on, the ship isn't falling to pieces, and at least most of the crew seem to be restored (I didn't go back to check exactly who was previously deleted though). I figured that was part of the "well this is a kid show so Wes should hit the reset button" to counter all the death and destruction.
Wesley’s white and gray uniform…possibly his dress uniform from Riker and Troy’s wedding in Nemesis from his deleted scene??? This would have been the last starfleet uniform he was ever seen in.
Yeah, that does seem most likely
I doubt that. We know Wesley joined the Travelers in TNG, so he's no longer in Starfleet. Why should he be wearing a dress uniform in Nemesis if he is no longer in Starfleet?
@@JuPMod Oh it makes no sense for him to wear a dress unform, but it's what he's on screen wearing (for however many thousands of a second it ended up being).
Apparently Wesley wasn't going to be in the movie (Wheaton was the only regular character from the Bridge crew who hadn't been invited back by Berman) but LeVar Burton realised he'd been overlooked and asked for him to be included and Berman did. One suspects he ded so reluctantly as he promptly cut the scene he'd have been in. I suspect the Starfleet costume was used because they would have had several lying around as spares, rather than have to get him a non Starfleet costume.
@@JuPMod the cut plot was Wesley was back and had been assigned to engineering on the Titan w Riker & Troi , Wesley is visible sitting at the head table at the wedding (only in the wide screen version), but no dialog references him. Thanks Berman
@@icon_uk624there's a long list of Berman screwing over Wil for daring to leave , conversely he spread his arms wide for Crosby every time she showed up
I'm not all that fond of the glitchy holograms, either, but the "Ha ha, sorry Sean" had me dying of laughter for a good minute 🤣
Excellent job, Ellie, welcome to Ups& Downs!
HANG ON A MO!!
Wesley Crusher has a "TARDIS"!!
In the new series of Doctor Who, they name drop Star Trek and he says "We should visit those guys" or something like that... THIS is how they CROSS!!! THE DOCTOR MIGHT HAVE LITERALLY MET WESLEY CRUSHER!!!!
MIddleton got the redshirtest deal of them all, not just died, but got erased from existance. But also, Galaxy Quest: "what's my last name?" by Grubthor's hammer, give him a last name...
Re animation eating whole cake in one bite: it’s easier/cheaper to animate. ESPECIALLY in CG animation.
I worked on a preschool CG show & we had this same discussion. Director hated the “big bite” & thought it could be a harmful example to kids to eat a cupcake in one bite. Then he was told the cost of animating separate bites (since each bite would require a separate prop design, build, texture, lighting, etc) & suddenly he was totally fine with the characters eating in one bite! Also one of the producers thought it was cute to see them eat in one bite & thought it was a waste of run time to take separate bites.
But I feel ya! My pet peeve is hanging up the phone without saying bye. So far I’ve been able to sneak in a bye on the other end of the phone at least.
my toddler has never seen a cartoon and she naturally eats things in huge bites. So it's pretty accurate and doesn't influence their behavior, at least not at that age.
Ellie absolutely adore your Ups & Downs debut, you nailed it!
Yes, great job Ellie. Also normally it is one episode a week, one latinum up a week. Since this is five episodes, I think there should have been five of them.
So no Ellie I don't think you broke the rules with two, just bent them.
Nope.
So irritating, gave up half way through
I’m not sure what I think about the length of this video. Lots of episodes, just takes time.
Ellie, your sensibility and observations are very different from Sean’s. They’re great. I learned a lot, and you’re very good at this. But I’d be curious to hear Sean’s takes, too.
Great job Ellie, nailed it!
Well done, Ellie. Your first UPS & DOWNS video and it's over an hour and 20 minutes long. That's a hell of a way to start.
Up and downs from a new face is cool. Thanks for letting us decide weather the HAL 9000 is an up; that is an UP.
*whether
-- replace this section with me gushing how wonderful and adorable Ellie is -- this was one of the best ups and downs of the entire channel, Ellie your new fresh take on Trek shines thru in such positive light. Please more of Ellie.
The loom reminded me of the machines from the matrix. Awesome design.
This plus a little of the cursed creatures from Princess Mononoke
Sentinels, yes.
Love how Wesley mentioned the Nerada incident that at that present time hasn't happened yet! It happens when the romulan star went super nova in star trek 2009
Alt universe past though
@davegallo8166 Yes, but the nerada is currently in Romulan space in the prime timeline as the super nova sends them and Spock to the Kelvin timeline. The mars attacks happen at the end of the season and the fleet that was destroyed was to save the Romulan people.
@@davidrohde2636 but as a traveler , Wesley would be aware of the past incursion
Right, 2387 is the Nerada incursion. Prodigy season 2 is 2385.
@davegallo8166 the Nerada is the Romulan mining vessel started from the Prime universe when Romulus star went Super Nova and ended up going into Kelvin alt timeline sucking in Admiral Spock to the Kelvin alternate reality in the past. At this point in prime universe Prodigy the Star Is going Super Nova and Picard is evacuating Romulus, Spock has tried the Vulcan Science Institute solution to try and stop the Super Nova by injecting Romulus sun with red matter and it doesn't work and it creates an anomaly into the Kelvin timeline and because the evacuation wasn't good enough for Romulans And the injection of red matter into the star didn't work the Romulans hack into the Mars synthetic workforce to turn into an attack on Mars at the end of Prodigy season 2 and what Picard recaps as the beginning of Picard season 1
The EMH facing off with an invading enemy is a callback to ST First Contact, when Dr. Crusher evacuates sick bay she activates the EMH and orders him to stall the Borg while the crew escapes.
"I'm a doctor, not a doorstop."
Welcome Ellie!
You are going with JayCee as the ship name when there is Chakotway?
I love the way they brought Wesley into this season. His cameo in Picard was so tacked on it felt bad. But here we got to explore who he was now and what being a traveler has done to him. An excellent addition.
Truly hope Netflix will pay to do a third season . I guess Paramount still owns this series even tho they abandoned it.Then again maybe Skydance will revive Prodigy
Friendly reminder: these characters are still children. Sure, they've been through a lot. But they can still be naive and idealistic. 🖖🏼
This is what I was thinking
As long as _the writers_ keep that in mind this show'll be alright
I JUST realized what Ellie did to her hair. Gorgeous!!!
I loved season 1,, felt like Trek and definetly not just for kids, season 2 surpasses season 1 in every single way and i pray Netflix picks it up for more seasons.
Yay, just watched the hour that I missed on Friday and again super well done Ellie! Now past midnight on to episode 11 to 15 🖖
The number of Voyager crew that got erased by the Loom could go a long way to explaining why the ship seemed so empty in "Imposters".
Smashed it Ellie. I have been re-watching the relevant eps prior to the release of the ups and downs. Look forward to seeing yours next week
Absolutely brilliant that Wesley showed up. I was so happy 😁
This was a lot of fun, great work by everyone at TC! A couple of the gems that I liked were (Kris?) the editor added in a shot of Adm. Vance eating an apple when Ellie was discussing the replicator (fantastic reference), and mentioning Tom Paris the image was actually of Nick Locarno.
A couple other things -
I think Wes said 'Timey Wimey' at one point.
I recall Wes grabbing Gwyn's hand and running in a very similar way that Matt Smith would grab Karen Gillan or Jenna Colemans' hand.
One of the best seasons of Star Trek, Ever!
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
Unfortunately, I had Wesley's appearance spoiled for me. I don't remember exactly where it was, but it was from someone who had seen the French versions. Thankfully, I didn't know the extent to which he was in the season. A great job by Wil Wheaton!
I have theory. Admiral Jelico in the 24 th century is actually the goa'uld infected senator Kinsey from 21th.
That's disgraced VP Kinsey, but yeah. Phlox was sent back to the late 20th century to keep an eye on Kinsey.
Re: Vulcan marriages. I'm pretty sure that the Vulcans that end up in Starfleet (or as Ambassadors for that matter) are regarded as the crazy, out of control Vulcans (ref: T'Lyn)
I’m sorry, where did you get that shirt!
I'm also wondering! Love it!
Same. Shut up whoever makes it and take my money. Name your price.
Would like to know that too!
@@LouisL23 ANSWER is in her next episode:
teepublic
“A Most Impressive Crew”
Designed & sold by Amalgam000
Great job with the Ups & Downs, Ellie! I love getting different opinions on these episodes, and a lot of the observations you bring up just go to highlight how well thought out everything is. Looking forward to you and Sean covering the rest of the season.
Did anyone notice Wesleys sweater was the same one he wore in Encounter at farpoint?
He even makes a joke that he has lots of sweaters 😂
My *protostar up* for the week is that Ellie is hosting!! Sean-I love you, but it's great that you let the resident Janeway Stan share in the hosting duties.
Now some running commentary:
- Cmdr Tysess clearly wanted the kids to steal the ship in E06. He stopped just short of out-and-out saying, "Here's the keys to the ship. I'm going to look away for the next ten seconds..."
- It is a testament to the writers understanding their characters that Rok didn't even consider fighting her holo-twin. Glad you commented on it.
- Re: "the"s in _F&F_ franchise name-either is acceptable, given that _The Fast and the Furious_ is the first film, but _Fast and Furious_ (no. 4) marked the hard pivot of the franchise into action movie spectacle.
- Did anyone else get Borg vibes from the Kazon computer? Is it possible it" went rogue" after absorbing some Borg programming?
- I disagree a bit with your "cult vibes" comment re: E08-I took it as "Black-and-Orange morality." The non-corporeal inhabitants clearly didn't mean any harm, Zero wasn't trapped on the planet, and I really don't think anything would have happened if he had been eaten besides him being stuck in the belly of the space manta for a few aeons.
- Steve Shives goes into this in detail, but the reason Wesley works in _Prodigy_ is largely because you need zero preexisting knowledge of the character to appreciate his role in the show. Rok's fangirling serves the secondary purpose of getting anyone who cares up to speed, but otherwise, his character stands on its own for these two episodes!
- As someone who really hates the "noble blood" / "small universe" trope, finding out that Maj'el isn't just some random Vulcan is a big *down* for me.
- Glad you covered the USS Cairo in Cetacean Observations. Definitely wanted to know what was up with that.
I was going to comment that it's actually "Green and purple morality", as mentioned in Babylon 5, but a quick google tells me that we're both apparently misremembering. The common phrase is Blue and Orange Morality. Huh. Today I learnt.
Ellie... Wesleys white uniform is from Star Trek: Nemesis. It's his dress uniform from the wedding scene. Sometimes he's included sometimes not in the edit. Schrödinger's wedding invitation.
Awesome job, Ellie! You've got this!
What a great Ups & Downs episode. Wooooh! What a lot to cover in these 5 episodes! Thanks for insights that I missed. See you next week!
Live logs and proper! 🖖
as always awesome job, Ellie! looking forward to part3
A tip for remembering where things are when doing green screen stuff - you can put cues off camera! Just tape up a green and red symbol on the correct sides so you can just point towards the red one.
How absolutely gratifying to get the twofor of a Gary Seven callback and finally a wrap up of Wesley's journey at the same time. 🥰
Well done Ellie. Hope you will do much more U&D's in the future
Actually, there are Ten Bajoran Orbs. Sisko found the 10th one and used it to expel the Pagh Wraiths from the Wormhole in season 7.
This season has been the best Star Trek I have seen in quite a while except Strange New Worlds but this season has been absolutely wonderful.
I prefer this. SNW is too episodic. It could use a bit more structure with arcs. Don’t worry, not like Discovery does. Too long.
The phased planet I think more goes back earlier than Doctor Who's The Stolen Earth. Dee Space Nine had an episode with a planet out of phase where Dax almost stayed on it.
Phasing like that always makes me think of the Geordi and…Ro Laren(?)…phase-cloak episode.
I think you did great for your first ups and downs. Could be a little faster in delivery, but overall, the energy is there, and I love the enthusiasm.
Also the double-latinum ups. Screw the rules, we have Tank Top Janeway!
Also, normally it's only one latinum per episode, so the fact you're doing 5 episodes in one go means you've got wiggle room. I say it's good to go.
I'm a straight man but I have no problem saying a Chakotay looked great with the silver in his hair.
Yay Star Trek : Prodigy, Ups & Downs with Ellie
Every episode is amazing
Season two has something for everyone 🖖
Wesley’s time travel console is also reminiscent of the Ancient Consoles that SG1 find in many episodes of Stargate which can also be used for time travel.
Ellie - I think you missed another Doctor Who reference, let alone from your heroine River Song, when Wesley says something like "Nobody loves spoilers."
Big Loki vibes too
Was the hidden planet not a reference to When the Bough Breaks from Season 1 TNG? Assumed that Wesley perfected the idea of cloaking a plant.
Shame on Paramount for cancelling Prodigy. Cheers to Netflix for picking up Prodigy. I am simply amazed that I can care so much about the characters. I am amazed that they can be so very touching. I do not care how they do it, but I want five more seasons of the show.
Excellent video Ellie - fresh voice, face and perspective on the excellent Prodigy series - very happy for you to share space with Sean.
Welcome Ellie! Glad you have a chance to do 2 of these.
Great job, Ellie! I’ve always enjoyed your WhoCulture videos, so it’s great to see you with TrekCulture too. You’re rocking that Janeway hairstyle!
I enjoy seeing Ellie on Ups and Downs. I'm all for more TrekCulture folks mixing things up!
I (fondly) remember when Captain Jellico (Ronny Cox) first became Captain of the Enterprise. ("Chain of Command", Part I & II (1992)) And though he wasn't The Captain they wanted, he was the Captain they needed. But I'm afraid that since then he's just become a stereotypical bad Captain (Martinet). I believe you can have good Star Fleet personnel without them being foolish or cruel. (Plus, Ronny Cox is great as good or bad guy.)
As always thank you so very much for the videos.
And Ellie you are Awesome! You don't need to, I think, compare yourself to Seán (also Awesome!). You do you!
(Now can we get Alex Kingston to voice Wesley's Wife?)
This is Robocop Ronny Cox
TWO latinum ups in one episode? We're getting wild here
Thank you for the video! I had a fantastic time and loved getting caught up with your excitement. Thank you also for those brief shipping mentions.
Wes was right not to try to help her, initially -- there's _vastly_ bigger stakes. They're lucky things turned out as they did. :P It's literally the "hard call" we just referenced. He does it, he's bad. The kid does it, she's a hero. C'mon.
It feels a little odd that he seems Q-like in his knowledge of the future, but didn’t know M’Jel?
Oh, also I can't believe it just clicked in my head... that episode with the Kaizon an the computer.... I think Prodigy just gave us one of the biggest lore easter eggs in all of trek without anyone noticing. That computer... I think that was where the Borg originated from. Look at it's shape an design, it's the same or similar to those nodes found inside of borg cubes. It uses link tech to control people. It talks about improving them... it essentially all but assimilated Merph but without nanoprobes. It was located directly next to an abandoned transwarp hub... I mean, the signs are all there.
I don’t think that’s it considering it’s dramatically less advanced than the Borg. Yes you can say they grew without this machine, but why did it not stay a part of them or pick up a few of their advancements for itself. Also, Kazon scientist pretty much directly confirms that the computer is a relatively recent creation to newly train initiates. It is not centuries old technology. Furthermore, if the Borg Collective owed its existence to the Kazon, why do they show no interest in them?
@@Cdr2002 Well first off, we know canonically that the kaizon are thieving liars pretty much by nature. Second, they suck so bad the borg (current) wouldn't even bother to assimilate them. So I doubt they could have made any of the tech there.
Then you have the fact that whatever it was had been controlling that dude's mind...for how long? Can we really trust anything he remembers or thinks?
So what core behaviors have we witnessed in isolated borg before, queen or drones. Well, firstly, queens priority seems to be to make drones as quickly as possible so she has more protection, larger work force, whatever reasons. We see that machine try to do that with the crew there. They also seek self preservation at any cost (I mean most life does) but queens go to first line of defense when out numbered or hell even when outnumbering, has been mind games, deceit and advancement/upgrading.
So, what if this machine was the origin, the first queen, one that was all machine. And the drones doing borg stuff like they do, ended up creating the first human/machine queen. The machine def wouldn't look at that as an upgrade, an the new borg would most likely see the machine that created them a lesser evolved form that what they were, so wouldn't deem it worth the trouble. Especially since they know everything it knows. Jus not worth the effort but know if they tried to take it with it'd resist an in this case, it would not be futile. So they let it sit there in the ice to rot forever.
@@Cdr2002 I mean I'm still not a 100% sure about the idea either an actually... I kinda like it that way. It's nice to have a loose thread mystery in trek again. However you can't tell me it totally doesn't look like one of those node though. And how it acted was very borgish
@@sparquisdesade it might be salvaged Borg tech, I suppose. I admit it’s fun to speculate about, yeah. Sorry for being too negative
I sort of read it as an insufficient de-Borg-ification of the tech on the part of the initial Kazon.
I loved Ellie's energy. She seemed so excited to do this.
And Wesley is wearing his sweater 😂great to see him again
Janeway after the encounter with the Loom: it's great I haven't lost any crew members! Hasn't happened to me in years! 😂
Just watched thru to the end of e20 - what a beautifully written close. Can't wait for you to catch up so I can work out what I just saw ! 🤪
34:35 The Metal Mike Wazowski suit. Yeah, that works for me.
I think the episode where zero gets a body when Ellie criticized about not having question the situation we should remember these are kids that's being portrayed
The white and grey uniform could also be a reference to the piloting uniforms in the Voyager race episode as well.
I Loved every second Wes was in this Season, easily my favourite Character which is ironic because i hated him in TNG. Same Story with Anakin in Star Wars hated him in the prequels but He grew on me in Clone Wars. I think i should watch TNG again, been a while.
Yes! I wasn’t a fan of Wesley on TNG but he was great here. The writers on _Prodigy_ have a much better understanding of the character and how to use him.
I actually enjoy occasionally having someone else step in for Sean doing the Ups and Downs for Star Trek episodes. I like Sean in this roll, but he does have a particular point of view, and - just like you and all of the rest of us - he has particular things he always ups or downs. It's nice to get a fresh perspective. He always downs mentions of the Kobayashi Maru, you always down animations eating food in a single bite. It's good to have a change every now and then.
42:01 wasn’t Wesley’s “TARDIS” set up in caves he and Picard had their last mission together in? That’s where it looked like to me. I also felt reminded of a TARDIS console. Very fun. Wesley was the last person I thought would become a Doctor Who analogue.
I literally cannot disagree more on downing Gwyn's decision to take Zero to get help. For this mission, they needed everyone and Zero literally couldn't even HOVER anymore.
The Looms give me some Stephen King's langoliers vibes.
😂 I had the exact same thought.
Which is worse, having your timeline pruned by the TVA, or devoured by the Loom? 🤔
@@AlyssaNguyen TVA. They are doing it on purpose...
Well, everything in this season has been done before. But I like how they connected it.
Yes, I just commented this before seeing yours. I agree!
I think the episode about Zero receiving a body was a very clear allegory for transitioning. That's one of my issues with Ellie continuing to call them a cult: that's an inflammatory accusation used against trans people all the time. While I'm sure that's not how she meant it, that's nevertheless the fears that sort of description is feeding into. The point wasn't that it was a cult, or that you should see the people as suspicious, the point is that, like with everything, transition does still carry some risks or consequences. I'm actually glad the writers didn't go the easy route and make it a cult- the "red flag" was that Zero may not have an unwaveringly fantastic time from start to finish in their new body, but as we can see, they still enjoy practically everything about the experience.
Because nothing in life is going to be 100% roses and daffodils, but in the end, it's still what makes Zero feel complete.
And portraying the non-corporeal corporeals (trans people) as being benevolent and offering this to people like Zero as a form of altruism, with the only real catch being that you will experience everything that comes with living in a body, I think is very complimentary for trans people, considering they are constantly portrayed as "seducers of the innocent," or preying on people.
One of my favorite queer allegories in Trek to date has been this episode.
You did great! And also, you're lucky, you got (in my opinion) some of the best episodes of the season to do Ups and downs for!
Wasn’t the first appearance of a Targ as Kruge's pet on Star Trek III?
I find it interesting, that they try to explain all inconsistencies of the different shows this season. They even find a way to explain how the uniforms shifted the way they did. Why do we have on one hand the "all good things" combadges in prodigy while the later picard uniforms have the Voyager combadges? Someone noticed and took the time to find a way to explain how this happened. Therefore "Prodigy" becomes the glue that ties all the series of the 24th and 25th century together. Well played, Kurtzman team. Well played.I hope you will cover that, Trekculture, Shawn.
Bravo Ellie, you’ve done an excellent job Zoom like no other up and down there’s been so detailed so fun except for last week of course with Sean but he’s so used to these up and down things like old hat to him to say he’s not good. He is fabulous job. Can’t wait to see what you do next week, take care stay hydrated. Get some rest and have fun. We really appreciate your work. We all do that all the fans. There are millions of us. Don’t forget we all love your work. Thanks for the fun until next time.
I could do with a lot more in-person Ellie doing videos on this channel. Thought you handled the pressure brilliantly Ellie! Looking forward to next week! ♥
The two spocks meeting destryoing the universe kinda like Doc Brown warning Marty "not to run into your other self...the results could be disastrous....could destroy the entire universe....or perhaps be merely limited to our own galaxy".
Great job Ellie! Looking forward to the next video! 😊
a very good ups and downs, Ellie nailed it^^ one little thing i recognized. On Voyagers sickbay, the doctors balt patient laying on the biobed is looking very similar to picard even though its not picard.
I was so surprised myself to see Wesley Crusher return. He sure played a great part of the story in the episodes to come. I was somewhat fond of him in TNG given I too was a teen at the time. I was kind of sad he decided to join the Travelers than to stay in Starfleet, yet given his Traveling abilities and knowledge, he came out to be a great hero in this 2nd Season. :)
Out of all the lines in these five episodes, I love Jacob's "He's a nebula short of a galaxy" line. Great Trek take of the "A can short of a six-pack" line. XD
Hmmmm... Vulcans are not to show emotion, yet it seems they're displaying emotions more in the lateral half of the 24th century. Maj'el certainly showed her emotions with Zero with that hand touching his cheek. I love her character. Great that she now is part of Prodigy gang. :)
Anyway, the next five episodes are going to be fun when the gang meets Chakotay. :)
Ellie moves over to Trek Culture Ups and Downs, still manages to reference River Song.
I loved the scene in the mess hall from episode 7, the kids personalities being all mixed up. 😂
My biggest issue with the Loom is the scene where they were just erasing Voyager crew left and right.
These people didn't just die, their entire existence was erased, and still no serious repercussions for the timeline... To me it seemed that there were so many folks that were just so insignificant to history on that crew... That's so sad.
If you watched all the way through episode 10, Wesley time slipped Janeway back to Voyager... A Voyager that wasn't attacked yet by the Loom scavengers. You can tell that when the first crew that the Loom consumed were there to greet Janeway, who was wearing her uniform again.
@@jasonjimerson7046Oh, that makes me feel so much better. Thanks!
I really like your Ups and Downs!!
48:17 Me watching Star Trek (2009) - Kirk, Sulu, and Olsen
Who the hell is Ols...ooohhh 😈