Ham Radio - A 6 meter cage dipole using window line.
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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I built "flowerpot" antenna for 6m at 52MHz and strapped it to a plumbing vent pipe near the 16 foot peak of our home. I loaded all the FM repeaters within 100 miles of our location and started calling. I received squelch tails from all but two of the repeaters with no contacts. I had just finished one of the tests and the repeater owner came back with, "HEY! DON'T GO AWAY! IT'STOO QUIET OUT THERE!" So I did make one contact. The SWR was below 1.5:1 throughout the entire band, but there were two "bumps" on either side to 52MHz where the SWR was a bit outside the profile. Now I want to build a horizontal polarized antenna for the other modes and when DX window cracks open.
This is a real neat project, Kevin!
Bet there is nobody on UA-cam building and explaining more amateur radio antennas than you.
Hope your back is feeling better soon!
Many thanks!
Ship to Shore stations used to use caged antennas. I'm off to look out some hardware now, thanks Kevin for another inspirational video.
The speech fragments were probably meteor scatter. In the future, try running FT8 on 50.313 MHz. I run 40 watts to a Par OA-50 loop, the typical "closed band" tropo reaches out to 250 - 275 mile reliably. There are 6 meter beacons between 50.06 and 50.08 MHz, too.
I have been on 6 meters since 1967. A great band and full of surprises. I have built the same dipole design in the past and will confirm that it will play.
CU further down the log! 73, Keith, WB2VUO here near Buffalo, NY in grid FN02ox
Building and experimenting with antennas never stops!
I knew there was a good reason for procrastinating the start of my attic dipole. Thanks for this!
With it hanging under your roof, you could support it two or more times along the length for a much longer antenna. 20 meters or even 40 meteres. You could use 1 inch pipe and three lengths of window line at 120 degree spacing to make a 6 wire cage. Or even go bigger.
Thanks. As my parents owned this house, I had long wires beyond 40 meters here back in college - extended through both gable ends. Looking forward to going at it again.
I like the ladder line method for a cage dipole. For 6 m I made an old aluminum lawn chair loop and 3d printed the mount and end caps.
Ed Fong did studies on PVC pipe for his antennas - He said to get the stuff from Lowes. Email him and ask him to call you. He's a great guy.
+100 points for 6m.
Great video man.
Hope your back is better soon! I have been having trouble with mine for years. I was trying to hang a wire antenna a few weeks ago and had it hung on a limb. I jerked it to get it off the limb and the limb broke and I ended up on my back in the mud. It didn't help my already messed up back but I got the antenna up! At least now I can sit on a heating pad and work HF and listen to shortwave!
Nice antenna. Was considering a cage dipole - nice to see SWR results. Thanks for sharing.
Please feel better!
6 meters! Thank you for this!
I need to build one and get on 6 meters
Nicely done Kevin
Very cool. Thanks for the instruction! I built a squalo for 6m a couple of years ago. When 6 opened up, it worked like a champ. But, as you said, not a very portable antenna. Hope you are well! 73 de K2CJB
Hi Kevin thank you for making the video. I'm going to try this antenna out. I hope you back feels better soon.
an interesting one to try would be the difference in running it as a cage then disconnecting the outer end commoning & having each core slightly different lengths just commoned at the centre (say 54", 53", 52" & 51" fan dipole style) to see if that is better for bandwidth or not.
Digital mode for EME is JT65. Digital mode for meteor scatter is MSK144. You mentioned hearing some signal bursts or pings. so maybe Meteor scatter. thanks for the video. - W0WQS.
JT65A actually.
Thanks for this. I have been bummed with my current license not able to go below 30MHz so this offers some things to try. I have learned so much from your channel and set me on a path of discovering new things on my own too. 73. VE3WWJ
I use a rectangular loop. Full wave. 50 ohm. Packs down small. Works better than a halo.
Very Nice Kevin! Great add to the 705. I have been thinking about a 6m Delta Loop for a little gain and still has a somewhat small foot print.
..that mode might be this new Q65. I have seen posts of guys using this on 6.
I went a bit further and listened to some samples of JT65a. I'm pretty sure that was it, I just hadn't figured out how to switch wsjt-x into VHF mode when I was first listening to it.
I'm ready to decode it the next time I hear him.
👍 Thanks for sharing Kevin. I hope you get some contacts on 6m. I don't know what it's like in the US. However, here in UK, FT8 is usually the best bet. Sometimes, when FT8 is booming in, I tune around for CW/SSB and call CQ but rarely hear anything. Despite band obviously being open, it seems that many EU ops stick to digimodes. Are there any ARRL 6m contests that might reign in some QSOs? In the UK, we have RSGB monthly 6m activity contests that are intended to promote 6m activity.
That was awesome Kevin. Thanks for sharing the wisdom
Very Interesting I've learned something tonight about board band thank Kevin.
what you heard was probably JT-9. also there will be more and more Q65, which will make you cage a winner on the band
I guess I need to get a bunch of window line.
Thanks Kevin! Will try this concept soon as starting to use 6 meters a bit. I currently use a standard dipole inside of gray plastic electrical conduit; which has sunlight resistant additives and is said to not get brittle like the white pvc. will let you know the result in about ten years hahaha KI7RJS
Yep, and the center Tee or Box has a removable cover to make it easier to solder inside it. You can get a pipe thread to painter pole adapter as a temporary mast, too.
Great Video, Kevin !!
Kevin, always neat to hear your projects, I tried an aluminum wrap from a 4 conductor power cable to try a wider band to no avail. I might try the cage setup, thanks for the insight.
really nice Kevin, I enjoy your videos
M0UDB
Wonderful project. Thanks for the great videos.
I am a new HAM and and looking for suggestions on how folks test out how well their new antenna designs work?
Another great video Kevin, thank you,
Hi, KEvin.
If you stumble upon interesting signal, using the IC-7300 or IC-705, just record it using the built-in audio recorder.
THank you. 73.
Yes, I know. It just didn't occur to me to do so at the time.
@@loughkb
Yes, sometimes I set the recording, but forgot to stop it. As my knowledge, the rig keeps recording even we switched it off.. and it's resume the recording when switch it on back.
Thank you. 73
FT8 (and pskreporter) can be helpful for looking at 6m coverage... More users than wspr sometimes.
Yes, very good point. There is also, in my opinion, the excellent website hamspots.net provided by VK3AMA. This tells you very quickly who is spotting your FT8, FT4 (and other digimode) signals. Personally, I find hamspots.net to be much quicker and more reliable than PSK Reporter.
Excellent illustration of how a Cage Dipole improves bandwidth.
An interesting followup might be a bandwidth shootout comparison between a cage dipole and a folded dipole. You've already done most of the work. Some simple cutting of your short jumpers between window line, and soldering new jumpers and you'd have it.
That might allow you to use a lower loss windowline feedline at VHF and improve system efficiency too. A 4:1 coaxial balun might save you the hassle of dealing with finding a torroial core that will work at VHF.
Just a thought. Only try the experiment if you want to. You're doing great without my input.
Sounds interesting, when I first got my ticket in the 90s I built a 4 bay sterba curtain for 6m. It worked great, but could only use it out on farms or field day because of size. Hope to catch you on the air sometime, 73 ke4ooo
Always nice to here from you ... vu3oum
3:25 extrapolation of Nadenenko dipole
Typical water type PVC pipe is more durable than people give it credit. I have been using those as isolators and center mounting points for dipoles for years now in continental weather. Haven't had to change a single one yet.
hope you feel better,
Very nice, Kevin. Has given me lots of ideas to tinker with. What do you think of using 45° elbows to make as inverted V to bring down the ohms?
PVC also contaminates the environment as it degrades it releases dioxin compounds.
On your pvc projects, have you ever tried the pvc that woodcrafters on their sawdust vacuum systems? The pvc walls aren’t as thick and quite a bit lighter.
Sch 25 pipe
In this case, with the weight of the window line, those thin walls would probably lead to sagging as the thinner pvc bent slightly under the load.
Looks like there are four 6m repeaters in Arizona: Kingman, Prescott, and two in Tuscon. Have you tried those?
I have a video on setting up 6 meter repeaters with the Icom 7300. I was using the kingman repeater in that video.
You have my respect, sir. I live in a 38' Class A and there is no spare room at all.
I understand Quartzite in the winter. Where do you go to escape the heat in the summer?
Summer is a problem. I have yet to find a place that's not too far away, cooler, and affordable.
Hi Kevin ... you did again ... great video. Just from a curiosity point of view, why did you decide to join the ends of the dipole ?
I used the same principle for an EFHW without joking ends together ... my assumption was there is no current at the ends so no reason to and its working fine,,, what do you think /? Thanks Niels OZ1CGQ
And what you heard could of been Q65 I think it’s called. New mode on WSJT-X
A COAX BALUN will work also.
Hey Kevin you ever played with the slot antenna designs? Very interesting designs on the skeleton kite. Wondering what your thoughts are on them.
Kevin, Did you try Q65 to Decode ? I know there are some that are testing o 10M as well. 73 N0FJP
When I'm in the right location I'd like to try making a caged EFHW.
Would this also work on 2 meters? Would love to see a sweep. 73 K4RJJ East TN
The third harmonic would be at about 150MHz, so a little short. It might be useable with a tuner, but the feedline losses would be a lot higher. Building one for 2m would be trivial, though.
Does a caged Dopole work on its harmonixs ?
and does its Harmonixs have a wideband signal and a Folded caged Dipole ?
And a Ring Dipole ?
Yes and yes.
This is really cool
Interesting antenna project Kevin. What would be the disadvantage of using a pl259 and so239? 73 George KD4FJ
You'd have to rotate the connector several times to attach. That's all. :-)
I use BNC most often out of personal preference. No technical reason.
Can u recomend a wire length using a 9 to 1 for 80 thru 10
Since it's going to act non-resonant with the 9:1 and require a tuner, it doesn't really matter that much. Longer is better. The closest you can get to half wave at the lowest operating frequency is best.
If you have the room to put up a half wave wire for 80, ~127 feet, then you'd be better off feeding it with a 49:1 and you wouldn't need a tuner for 80,40,20,15, or 10.
Channel 2 Analog is right above 6 meters (55.24 MHz) so when 6 meters is active you might be able to pick up analog TV from Canada owo
Back when I was a kid, we lived across Lake Michigan from Chicago. My dad and I used to watch for VHF stations out of Chicago to come in on the TV and then race each other down to the radios to see what was up on 6.
@@loughkb 6 meter propagation is a wonderful thing
So have you worked WSJT-X MSK144 .260 ? Lots on every morning! lots of activity on 6m every day. Good Luck de K7TNT
Kevin what are you using as feeder? Is rg58 ok for 6m?
I'm using RG58, I had it on hand. It's fine over short runs. Lossy on 6 if you're getting a hundred feet or more away.
I really enjoy your experiment videos. Now I wonder what that bandwidth difference would be on let's say 20 and 40... a project that would be increasingly more difficult. However, perhaps based on your studies, you could comment on what one might expect at those lower frequencies.
While researching, I came across a post from a guy who measured an 80 meter dipole and then a cage version with 6" spacing around a disc. His cage hit 2:1 just about at each end of the band. Pretty wide down there.
@@loughkb Interesting... thanks. Increasing my knowledge in EE and RF was one of the more compelling reasons for getting my ticket. I wish you were my neighbor; I'd be your apprentice in all of these experiments... just no camera time for me. :)
Have you tried this vertical ? Never made a cage. I made a 10 meter dipole that I can use either way. Just wondering. Thanks. Hope to hear you about 50.145 USB.
With the threaded bit, I can rotate it easily. I've rotated it to about 45 degrees, like a sloper, to split the difference. I could hear a beacon out of Phoenix that transmits on a vertical and SSB sigs during a partial opening equally well.
Good stuff as usual. Stay safe
It’s been 9 months since this video. Have you been able to make any contacts on 6m?
I check the band often, but I haven't been lucky enough to catch an opening. I did have one somewhat local contact and was able to compare the dipole to my doublet. The dipole was much better, but being resonant, I expected as much. :-)
How well will a caged dipole work on say 2meter or 70cm? and what or how could one determine the gain on a caged dipole? And why horizontal and not vertical on your setup? Also, what math process did you use to get the proper length for the desired frequency? Was it the "300/f*V="?
A cage would work fine on VHF.
Horizontal because that's the common orientation for SSB/CW on 6.
It's calculated the same as any other half wave wire. In my case I used feet as the measure, so 468/MHz.
@@loughkb Thank you very much... I thought those were the case but just had to hear it from one that had completed one...
WSQ2 digital mode?
for gain, build a 6 meter moxon
Do you ground that caged antenna?
No, it's a dipole.
This ConduDisc system is intended to be a quick & easy grounding install for power applications. You might want to borrow a sample and see how well it works for radio installations.
Review: ua-cam.com/video/VKJ3gwFnxEw/v-deo.html
Maker: www.saeinc.com
I'd be intrigued to know what this Conducret or "conductive concrete" is. Good grounds should become even more important as hams begin to explore the LF bands.
What about a roll up moxon?
Those short "openings" could they not be Meteor scatter ?
How would one determine whether it be tropo or MS?
I wondered about that. However, there were several in short succession. So I went to a site that monitors meteor activity and there was no uptick that day. We'd have to be in the middle of a shower for so many in so short a span of time. I think...
I wondered the same thing. You may be able to tell a meteor ping because it has a very sharp attack followed by a longer fade out. There is also a possibility of aircraft reflections. I think in Europe, when the Iceland volcano stopped air traffic a few years ago, the loss of the aluminum cloud overhead also curtailed a lot of VHF/UHF grid square work.
So what is window line?
Parallel feed line. Two wires running parallel, separated by insulators. In the case where the separator is this plastic extrusion, it has holes cut in it to reduce wind loading. They look like windows, hence, window line.
Tell me about it I live Ina apt restrictions,restrictions
Try finding a beacon, we listen off the beacon as a few guys call if they can hear one.
I widen the band scope so I can see down into the beacon area while listening on the SSB calling freq. That way I can 'keep an eye' out for them. :-)
Nice........
Somebody needs to transmit on 6 so others know it is open.
Every time I spend any time listening there, I always throw out a CQ just in case.
Kevin, at the end of your exercise, what Vf did you arrive at? My empirical data is 0.912
A Great a New Vid and my 3. Time Being the 10.th Commentor on a ham radio vid haha
try rapping the pipe with foil?
Another option is self adhesive copper "slug tape". Just a thin as Aluminium foil but better conductivity. With care you can also solder onto it (even when it's stuck to PVC pipe).
Heya! New sub ☘️
73
goood lord I looked up a Squalo antenna yeah ill pass! $$$$$$$$